 Hello everyone, I'm James Milan and this is Driving Forces, a series, a public affairs series here at ACMI that focuses on people and their projects that are basically focused on social impact and activism. And today I am joined by two excellent examples of that. Basic, well first of all, Baye El-Odi is the founder of Connect, Care, Share or Kokkasha and we'll find out what that is all about very shortly. Thanks for joining us Baye and we are also joined by chef Nadine James. Thank you so much for being here. So let's let's find out what is Kokkasha all about and where you know what is the impetus for it so if you wouldn't mind taking us through that Baye. Sure, thank you again for having me here. It's a pleasure and honor and also an honor to have chef Nadine, our Jamaican master chief here with us. So Kokkasha it's basically an online platform that connects you, our audience today that are at home probably tired of eating the same pasta with some tomatoes that are missing. Hey, I cook that all the time. No, I'm just kidding. That's why I'm probably some ice cream but you're probably missing your local small restaurant with you know some African food or Jamaican food, some tasty flavor in your days and the small moments. So basically that's your situation today and on the other side if you go out and you check out any part of the world right now you will find the small businesses in your community that make the identity of your community close. So all those local chefs that are amazing such as Nadine, also owners of small food businesses are lost and not any revenue. And the Kokkasha what does the platform is simply creates those human connection between people that are missing each other. You're probably missing the amazing dishes that Nadine is giving you and offering you and Nadine is missing our revenues. So what it does is simply that is creating this human connection through which you will learn from Nadine everything about Jamaican food, about you know curing Jamaica and you will prepare your meal, you will savour it with your family, with your children, etc. And Nadine will earn some revenues to go through the crisis but the best of all is that she will also earn the skills that will enable her tomorrow to thrive into the cooking digital industry because people are enjoying more and more cooking at home and even cooking together from different parts of the world. We have groups from somebody from Germany, London, US and all together cooking because they're friends. So that's really Kokkasha is creating this connection between people that are missing each other and whoever don't see each other in this time of pandemic because each one is locked down in isolated words. And again I'll just remind our audience we're talking about connect, care, share which that turns into Kokkasha. Kokkasha is referring to that. You care to each other and you share together a moment of learning of the other day also she was putting Bob Marley so also dancing together during the cooking lessons so you know it's a moment of humanity and that's why we are missing today our human connection and we are aware more than ever of our human independence. So yeah that's Kokkasha. Absolutely and before I bring you in Nadine I just want to note because people who watch our public affairs series would of course be very aware of how much everything that we have been doing over the last number of months has been colored by the pandemic and the changes and impacts of that and most of those frankly have been pretty grim pretty negative stuff stuff that concerns us all and that includes the fact that as you have said businesses are just plain shut down businesses that are sure about the products and the services that they provide but are also about that connection that you are just talking about and especially of course restaurants coffee houses places where people will go in order to have that social connection as well as eat some excellent food or drink some fine coffee or libations or something like that all of that as you said has been snatched away from us on the whole and instead we're we've gotten mighty well acquainted with our kitchens so a wonderful kind of recognition on your part by that this is this is a moment that need that requires this kind of new innovation so chef Nadine tell us a little bit first of all about the restaurant like in normal times you would we wouldn't even be able to talk to you right now because you'd be visiting your in the kitchen of the restaurant I'm sure tell us a little bit about it so hi thank you again for having me and having us it's a very pleasure to be here and about my restaurant is a startup restaurant and I cook out of my my school like they they rent you a space and then you cook and then you deliver that meal so they order it on then I cook it in my school and then I deliver bring it to them so I would be busy and when the shutdown it was really emotional it was really like what am I gonna do now like nobody can go anywhere and this was a platform that really you know they give me an opportunity to expand my skill and at the same time give me a revenue by staying home with my children so it's all coming just one big wow you know that in this time we still can come together as Bahia said we still can communicate as you know even though it's virtual but it's still something to look forward to by knowing that I'm going to cook I'm going to Jamaica or I'm going to Africa somewhere that right now I'm in but I'm out at the same time and Bahia how exactly does it work so you've both mentioned that the gain here is both for the audience who learns how to cook different dishes and just and even more than that as you said music can be part of it and other other pieces of culture are shared but you've also mentioned that it it brings revenue so what is the model for Kokasha what what what is it exactly that you're doing yeah so basically what we want to ensure is to maximize really the recognition that we owe to our chef so that directly paid usually the customer tell me how do I pay I say this is the way you go it's to the business actually of the of the restaurants and these participants I put a minimum because what the the the spirit of Kokasha is like Nadine has a big talent a huge talent it must be recognized so you will have to pay a minimum price you will not be like here taking the massive discounts no we must recognize this talent not only today in terms of times of COVID or COVID but in the long term so that's really the vision so the way it works is like you will have a I mean I'm just gonna I'm gonna interrupt you for one second just to say that's a great great point I think that you're making I just want to reiterate it and that is the the reason for having a minimum has as much to do with respect for what it is that chef Nadine brings here as in addition to the fact that of course she has lost she and the other chefs have lost their revenue so therefore this is a good way of you know at least partly addressing that but that respect piece is is so important so thanks for bringing that up I just wanted to highlight that I mean at the basis she needs a health insurance needs so basically the point is like she's you if it tomorrow you take a class with us I will say she's on the stage she's the chef I am the assistant tech so so basically so that's the way it works there is a minimum a minimum two people they will pay it's 30 dollars per class it's a minimum of 60 and then each additional will pay an extra usually it's one hour for two people and then depending because it's all about the experience if you are a group of four we will extend of course the time to really have the full experience but then it's still we will not make discounts either even it's just for big big groups of five and then we will really make sure that the the chef gets also the third part but that's the most important so that's that's the way it works we are in the process of setting up as an NGO we have been like few weeks running so and then that's the aim but all the mother is saying a minimum part is covered and then we may allow some flexibility depending on big groups which is normal right because then her hour is more valorized right of course and so what I am imagining and please correct me what I'm imagining is chef Nadine you basically set up a camera or your or your laptop or whatever it with a good view of your own kitchen um and then that is also the case with whoever it is who is taking that class they've got it set up in their kitchen and then you basically take them through the making of meal or meals is that right yes yes um yes that you said it um just right they have their camera set up I have my camera set up and just so I go we are talking right now that's all but the camera will not be on me the camera will be at the food because the food is the important part at that moment after we introduce ourselves so what you're saying is just right we both have our camera on and we both like step by step this is what we're gonna do this time this is all we're gonna take all long it's gonna take and stuff like that step by step and you know tell our story and feel comfortable just feel like you're in your own home so I want you to feel that you're in your own home even though you're talking to a friend because right there I'm your friend for that day yeah so somebody is is basically paying for your time and your expertise for for an hour let's say at the end of that hour will they have a single meal will they have the way to make several different meals how do you work that out so um every meal that we are preparing is for four people it's a four um four in the family we we do a minimum of four so if you're gonna cook with us it's um you're gonna have you can feed four people four of your um you and your husband and two kids or whoever you want to do it is up to you but it's for four people and they know that because they put it on they put it on the website but yeah yeah and so go ahead go ahead menu I just want to say also I think uh how it it is so it's for people you can adjust you can make two six people or whatever and then Nadine will will provide you the quantities the servings but each menu has two dishes so that's what we provide two dishes and then you have the instructions to do it as many times as you want right of course yes you know at ACMI where we're where we work we uh have members and we have interns and our the way that we teach all the time how to help people learn how to make video and tv is we do it all hands on right we we put the cameras in their hands and we and we have them you know really get used to that's what we have found is the best way of learning you guys are doing the same thing right you're doing experiential learning so that you're taking somebody through the process with your guidance and then you're basically teaching them how to cook uh and therefore they can then do it uh you know forever afterwards and it becomes quite the bargain right whatever it was they paid for that hour um so that's a it's it's a wonderful model that's for sure has it required any changes um for like have you had to learn how to do anything new chef Nadine in terms of you know taking these classes on oh yes um I never do it's something that I was in my heart but I never did it before and so when um Bahia um present this to me it was amazing but what I love about it that she didn't she never like teach you one day and say you're on your own she take a step by step because she's a woman that strives to be to be better so every lesson she will look at it and then you know she give you um right like this this that stand this way just like all you guys was doing um preparing me for this um meeting so I learned to to cook on a video um on a live stream like I learned to do that I learned to take pictures I learned to to fix the camera a certain way I learned I learned a lot of skill that I never had before I knew about this program and it's uh it's amazing it's amazing yeah and how uh Bahia to go back to again kind of the operations of Kokasha how have you found chefs like chef Nadine or have they found you um how is it how is this and then also how do people learn about what it is that you're doing yeah so basically what I did is the first time um that the idea came when I was taking a walk in the in the streets and started to cry because I was really missing people that were my families in a small restaurant as an international student you know they are they end up being your your family does you know Moroccan cooks etc um I sent an email honestly I sent an email to a friend I was like look I had this idea uh from one side I'm seeing you and then from another side I'm talking to my professional friends who are if you know tired of canceling their summer friends and eating the same so then they want something new exciting and this is at all on their well being and then it was simply sending an email I reached out um uh some associations too so the woman uh empowerment association in in river uh the um Boston kitchen the the wealth kitchen uh in in Boston so also to recruit and uh that's the way it came so for example Nadine it was also I think an email that came from whoever and then somebody connected me and then I onboard her um but also um I want to say that if Nadine is here uh is also uh because she is very talented she puts a lot of effort I always say I only give you a tool I only give you a advice I am your coach but then she's the one working until 1 i am reviewing her recipes reviewing everything she has done and sending me everything to review and work with her I just want to recognize that I reach them out but then I just give them training tools but is up to them and if she is where she is today is because she she made her herself mm-hmm yeah no no doubt about that you've got to have some talent to work with in order for this to all you know to for this to all come together you were mentioning that one of the first kind of organizations you reached out to was a women's organization um is this uh is Kokasha's work basically centered on women uh chefs or chefs of both genders or what honestly it was uh it came by coincidence for me it was like I am going to help whoever is most in need I do not care about genders I do not care about race I do not care about anything and you know who responded women from minorities if you look our chef they are Jamaican, Nigerian, Moroccan why I will tell you why because those immigrants are those who are building our local communities and maybe make them alive so you know you read all those articles about you know how can we call immigrants legal and they're they're the nurses that are saving you in the hospital just to be safe and I'm just like why it just like because they're the one bringing you the value in your daily life what do you want me to say so the answer to your question is like no it came because it's the reality you're seeing what is happening yes true words cannot be spoken and again yet another example of how in fact immigration and welcoming immigrants into our communities just enriches it's uh enriches those communities you know it actually it's a key to us all growing not in fact well in my opinion and those of others a problem that's for sure and it's interesting though to hear that basically you started out hey you just got the word out however you could and it just turns out that the responses have come so far from women chefs who are working who are also have immigration or immigrant backgrounds um what by um I'm curious and again because this is this series is called driving forces we're curious what drove you to to undertake this particular project and I suspect work that you do more generally what what what is the the work that you generally do and how is this connected to that or where at least does the impulse come from so everything honestly started by my everything started with my own on background so I was born I grew up in in Morocco and from a quite modest family so I spent my childhood playing in the streets of Casablanca and I enjoyed those moments playing you know climbing the trees playing with stones and you know uh because of lottery of life and I call it lottery of life uh I I had access to good quality education and uh I honestly saw from my early age the the divides in this word because I was going to a school which honestly I didn't like but was very posh and you see those I'm Moroccan so you see the kind of elite immigrants which is Morocco was before a colony so basically from my early age I found myself in the nexus of of our socioeconomic divides and the goal when I left the country to study to work abroad was to bring back the skills to wherever place needed needed the skills basically to bridge those divides through innovation and because I I live with myself so that's a little bit the purpose that that drove me into this kind of of social impact is my friends in the streets of Casablanca were more talented than me and they're probably today in the streets the best talents today the one that brings you your small joys in your life that make your life you don't see them so the whole spirit of Caucasian everything that I try to do in my life is to bring up in the scene those unseen people who are just behind the honestly the shadows of our socioeconomic divides and they are behind the shadows and we are talking about perhaps 99 and that's the aim is to say how in a moment that is this crisis where we are more aware than ever about socioeconomic divides the toll on our societies but also how much we miss each other how much we are independent and how much basically we need each other to really build the basis of a society where tomorrow you will value every person from the kitchen to the garbage collectors because you know what if they were not here you will not be a life meter and that's something that you that's it's all purpose yeah I think you know in a number of conversations that we have had over the last months we've talked about what the nature of what's been what's now called essential work essential workers and a lot of people are of course aware what how that applies in the health care and public health aspects but I think people have become I hope I guess people become more aware and more appreciative of what you were just saying how many hands are invisibly helping our us to get through our days with all the small pleasures that we derive from those days and you know how often those folks just remain invisible so let's hope if there are silver linings to be had through this whole crisis let's hope that there is a lasting you know kind of appreciation for the work done by the folks that you've just been talking about Nadina I wanted to step back also and just ask you how did you start cooking where did it come from have you something you've been doing since childhood tell us what your your own story as as a chef what what is that yeah um I've been I started cooking from I was like nine years old and it started I um with I used to this um gentleman used to be a butcher and he lived next door to my um the little cut that my mom lived because um I'm a child I'm a person of 50 my mom I have 12 kids so with my father and yeah so there was a lot of people in my home so I used to go away I sneak away and go over there and nine just to see what he's doing but the more you help the more every time you reward you with food with a piece of what left so he gave me the inside the inside of the goat we kill a goat that day so he gave me the inside of the goat and one of the thing um like we went home and I said mom um this is what I get you know cook and she said no I'm not gonna cook um it's too hard to cook so because yeah because you have to you have to um boil it then you have to strip it then you have to beat it and then you have to season it so it so it really is a lot of work a lot of work yes it takes a lot of work so I went behind her back to the butcher ask the butcher how to do it and then and I come home cook it and then that was my um my first food and it was very good and that's when my mom said wow you were nine years old then nine years old wow wow nine years old so I did that that's when I I said wow I love to cook and the passion is uh is real and that give me joy when I when I cook it give me like a piece of sense of joy yeah and are you basically self taught as a cook did you was that the beginning of just an awful lot of cooking in your life and that's how you've gotten to where you are now or if you undergo training so my um I used to watch my mom my dad and my mom could cook my dad is kind of chef but my mom she's our own wife so she could cook so I watch her and I watch oh like she always tells me Nadine get out the kitchen because it's too young but even though she tells me to get out the kitchen I always take time and still sneak and and watch I'll watch her because it was a driving force inside of me a passion to to watch what she's doing because I see what um the outcome of the food and what the food can do so after she cooks she will have friend over and then I see that that food bring people together that will bring unity that will bring bring all different type of thing love you know happiness joy and that I cling to that I cling to that and and by clinging to that it teach me how to cook I watch her more I watch her more and that's how I learned I keep watching her even though she said not to watch her and then at nine I tried and it worked and then from that I began to cook it by myself cooking cook it by myself and do you have a child or children of your own Nadine oh yes I have four beautiful children wow and they watch you cook now or yeah so um it become a bomb cooking it become a real bond for me and my daughters because my daughters um live with me but my sons so it become a bond so they don't like my passion but they love the food what become my passion so they will so they may not quite share that you have but they sure know how to enjoy the food oh yes they do they do they um so they will come and you know talk to me and then we share together our day and our ideas and you know we we bond with it and then when I want my sons to come over I will just ask um tell them oh I cook um curry go today and I know that they will be right over and yes when I want to talk to them so it it it it be it be now yeah it be now like a cheese to you know like a give cheese to the um right to the right yeah yeah we boys we're easy that way that's for sure yeah but yeah I was curious um you clearly you have a very strong drive that comes from your childhood um that is the impetus for kokasha and and similar efforts in your life I'm sure but I'm curious um what is it about food for you because of course what you recognized walking out on the street that day was that all kinds of small businesses are being shut down um and uh you chose this as your as the focus for this particular project is there is is there a reason for that that's related to food and cooking yeah I mean there were two two main reasons first of all is that it was is the the most impacted uh section as I could see uh and is where you can see the big numbers and that's one uh I was looking really looking to what's where I can help and second because food as Nadine said is bringing people together and when you look at restaurants that are often owned by minorities they are inclusive they are multi-ethnic they are they are diverse you mix together you build memories you meet you you you meet friendships um and also you you are more open minded you know it's like you build a bond with other person and it's okay we are just enjoying the same food and it's just like this human needs of eating bonds us again despite you being white being american me being moroccan Nadine being Jamaican we don't really care because the food is just amazing and this it's our common ground it's a way to level the field in a delicious way too that's what's it um so yeah my relationship with cook cooking is is that is really see the bonding that we have made that we make as a society through a meal via a meal and that was really something and also in morocco you know in morocco we have tajins in morocco you in in traditional the traditional morocco not the fancy places we don't have an individual plate you don't have luxury you don't have an individual flower a glass we share everything and you have a plate in the middle and you help each other and first you help others before helping yourself you have so you know it's just the concept of sharing this yeah that's i mean it's just wonderful modeling behavior right that that that happens around a moroccan uh you know just a kind of traditional moroccan meal as you said these are these are wonderful ideas and impulses and ways of treating each other that we can bring into other spheres and kind of civilize and make make things nicer in a lot more places hey we're going to wrap up the conversation but let me ask you both um one last question which is from each of your perspectives clearly kakasha was born from the impact of the virus at some point we we hope we will be on the other side of this um what is it that each of you is going to take forward from here or that well yes that that once things return to normal um what is it that you think that from your experience now you'll be taking forward practically or kind of spiritually into that new normal that we establish on the other side of this go ahead imagine so for me oh god for me it's a it's a eye opening and it's a brilliant new way to look at life going on from my vision is to merge um uni cafe with the um digital life and then brought bring it together like um when all everything cooled down my vision is to still do cooking live in my restaurant so um and it's all started by the my by kakasha by if she didn't introduce that to me i wouldn't have that to go so i'm taking that with me and go on to make to the future and um one of the thing and i'm this it it brought me to know by ear and she become a family so i'm taking that too i'm not leaving that i'm taking that too so um i will take those things and i will i'm just trying to be better so i'm taking that and then in the future be better and is there do you have any idea of when unique cafe may be able to open its doors again no we we all think in the same thing because we go by the same news and the same we wait in the same waiting period so i i can never give you a set time because we are waiting for what our leaders have to say you know the feeling yeah yeah okay thank you and and how about you by yeah yeah so for me kakasha um as i mentioned is it's not something for the crisis something post crisis that's that's the aim is like how do we take size this this crisis as an opportunity to build a better future and the goal really the vision is to build a behavior a society behavior where you recognize the work that is behind the scenes so my goal is really to say if tomorrow it's business as usual for me it's not an okay coming back to normal for me it's not an okay because the normal that we build previous to crisis during years and business as usual is one that's bring us today of like all the millions of death and the inequalities that are increasing and having like this this crazy total of inequalities in our society we don't want this back to normal at least i don't want and is afraid me so the goal is having a normal where you know you go to a restaurant and you value the time spent by the person behind the walls and you pay the fair price the same for any products from a bag from whatever because you have met nadine you have met whoever you have not seen because it's behind the shadow of a wall and you recognize its value in the society and my hope is that one day as you behave like this as a citizen as a customer you will also vote on votes for more rights more recognition more protection not only for you but also for the person who delights you each day but you perhaps don't see if i want you to see her today see him and tomorrow value them while continuing to see them because kakasha nadine with unique cafe you will still see them this experience is not going it's going to be blended online and in person yes that's my hope that's if i if this is planting the seed for that i nothing it will be heaven for me well that is a very inspiring vision indeed we appreciate you guys both taking the time to talk with us today i've been talking to chef nadine james who owns unique cafe which hopefully will be back up and running itself but with new wrinkles undoubtedly um and also with bay el ori who has started kakasha uh and um and that's connect care share and um and best of luck to you both it's been both enlightening but really fun conversation with you and um we really do wish you the best thank you and thank you for your work uh no problem and the audience for being for being there and if you want to enjoy with nadine of any of our chef we are here to bring you beyond the barriers and the walls and be delighted many people start eating the food while they're preparing it we don't recommend though yes and uh undoubtedly we will provide uh graphic information for how to get to kakasha and to chef nadine and the other star chefs in their stable um and um and enjoy enjoy all right so thank you both again uh thank you out there thank you james melanne this has been driving forces we'll see you next time