 Hi, everyone. Hi. No. Hello. Hi, Ms. Pat. Hi, Ms. Pat. Hi. I'm Mr. Vernon Jones. Hi, Ms. Owen. Hi, Ms. Ferreira. Hi, Ms. Moisten. And we're ready to go, right? Yeah. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Well, good evening. Working group. Good evening. Those of you who are attending in public audience. To our. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. This is February 3rd meeting of the community safety working group. And. The condos meeting to order. At 532 PM. And. Seems we have a quorum. So I'd like to take a roll call right now, please. Ms. Owen. Yeah. Ms. Pat. Yeah. Ms. Ferreira. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Here. Okay. I think that's everyone for now, right? Yes. Just in my own screen here. Thank you all for being here. And let me launch right into. Just some, uh, a couple of opening remarks. In addition to the welcome. I would like to add to that. I have an attempt to put some time frames on our, our meeting this evening to experiment with some setting some limits on some of the topics so that we are more efficient about. Starting and ending on time. Hopefully. We as a group will respond in kind and try to. You know, work with this as. As best as possible. This is just one stab at it. And we'll try to pay attention to it. And I'll do my best to keep us on pace. A quick agenda review. As usual, we'll go through public comment. And, uh, followed by, uh, open floor for our community safety working group. To bring any new information to us. Regarding their experiences related to the work we're doing. And then our action items are. Our foreign number and some of them overlap a bit. But, uh, we're looking to have an update of the Amherst police department. Uh, Response to our, our questions that we've been posing to them. Uh, schedule a meeting, uh, with the APD regarding follow-up questions. And that's more of a question. Rather than a, uh, an actual statement of decision in that case. Um, When an update on the bid process, they're members of our community, our, our community safety working group who have been working diligently on the language of the bid process with the town. And we'll get an update on and look closer. Look at that in our meeting tonight. And then, uh, there was an issue that we, uh, wanted to bring back and that had to deal with compensation for citizen participation. In, uh, the work of this group. Uh, followed by any upcoming events, uh, set our next meeting date. And as always, we will, uh, entertain any other items that did not come in. Uh, the chair, uh, in an anticipated manner, 48 hours. Ahead. And then we'll adjourn. So. Let me, uh, Go to the minutes and I want to, uh, query our group. We, uh, Let me just say right now, I, I know, uh, that. Things are extremely busy, um, at the, at the town level right now. And sharing information is. Is, uh, Is possible. Always, but certainly a hard to do at times. So, uh, these minutes have just come out and I want to, uh, defer to. The, uh, the working group to ask if they, uh, Want to review these minutes now or defer. Review and approval of the minutes until the next meeting. Ms. Moisten. Um, so one miss, uh, Walker just called me and said she's running about 10 minutes behind. And so she'll be joining us shortly. And I'm. I haven't posted the minutes. Okay. And so what I don't, I was just a little concerned because you're keep mentioning minutes. And so. I'm wondering what you're. They're not posted. They, they would. Okay. So we, we can't, we can't do them there. Yep. Okay. So thank you. All right. So moving forward. Let's just say, let's just go right into our public comment portion. If there are members of our community who would like to speak to us in the group, we are here to listen to you and we welcome your participation at this time. Well, Oh, just sorry. Before finishing the minutes part is just so we'll just approve them next week. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And to, to public comment for those who want to speak. At this time, no one has their hand raised. So can we move on to the next item until. When and if people decide to speak, or do we have to wait? Wait just a couple of minutes or so. We devote 15 minutes to this. And sometimes people need to gather their thoughts. But we'll move on very shortly. I'm a small. No hands yet. Miss Moisten. No. Okay. So we'll. Thank you all who are here and listening. I'm going to move into just an open moment for our community safety working group. Make any opening comments. You'd like to make before we get into the beta agenda. Anyone. Looks like we're all ready. Well, hearts and minds are clear and then so we're going to just go forward with this right now. And. There are. Miss forever. Miss Owen. Mr. Cajun. Myself. I've been doing some follow up upon. The questions that we. Sent to the MS police department. They gave us a response earlier. We sent back another set of questions. And they sent another response. And. At this point, there are still some. Questions that need to be answered. We've tried to. Put those together. And I, I, I took some. Liberty here to put these comments together. Based on the categories we had available to us. And these are still remaining questions for. Us to the police department. And I guess the advice and direction I, I'd like to hear from our, our. Our working group. Is at this point. Do we want to. Continue to go back and try to get answers to these questions. Many of the questions. That we asked were answered in narrative form. It was not much of a. Actual numerical categorical database. In terms of a lot of the categories we were looking into, especially in terms of race. And ethnicity. And. So we have these, this bank of questions. We could go back again and ask those. What I did want to raise. Is a question. And there may be different opinions about this. So whether or not we wanted to have. A. Meeting. With some members of the embers police department who do data collection and reporting. Before. Before we hire a consultant. To work with us. And the goal of that would be to see if we could garner some more information quickly. Rather than to back and forth written. Responses. Which may not. Necessarily in my opinion. Give us any more data or clearer data. And I might, the base for my. My saying that is, I think in many cases that the data collection process. Is somewhat limited. At the police department. I, I do know from hearing from the. From the chief. That they have a 30 year old. Data system that they're working with. And that. Some of the questions we're asking. Are pretty advanced in terms of. What they might be able to. Dig up. Within their own system. So that was one thought. There may be other thoughts. About whether we should do that now or wait until later. But two, so two things. One of the things is, you know. Do we want to go back. And, and in written form and see if we can get. Answers to these questions that are remaining. Do we want to try to do something like that. Through a meeting with them. In a zoom format. Or do we want to take some other tech? Ultimately for me, I think I'd like to just, I'd like to move this forward. So that we can. Not going back and forth, back and forth, asking questions. And sometimes the questions change a bit. So I don't want to get us stuck in question mode. I'd rather move us forward as quickly as possible. So let me just say that. And I'm going to, you know, also defer to, to, you know, Ms. Bowman. So I think if we go back and forth with the Amherst police department a couple of times, I think that. We should move on. And go. Ahead. And make. Getting those other. Things. You know, here what you're thinking. And I'm certainly open, not wedded to that proposal, but open to see what the next steps might be. Ms. Bowman has her. A hand up. Ms. Bowman. So I think if we've gone back and forth with the Amherst police department a couple of times, we're going to get to that. So that's. Getting those other things answered by whoever we hire in the. Like whoever we hire, like the consultants we hire. Like, maybe we can have that written in that they. You know, work on trying to get these questions answered. And if they can't get answered, then, you know, working on. Okay. That's just what I was thinking. Thank you. So, let me go here. Yeah. So, um, yeah. And I mean, I'm on the group with, um, with Mr. Wally and Mr. Cage and Miss Owen too, I believe, right. And, um, and, you know, I've given, you know, obviously we've been kind of massaging some of this information and trying to come up with some of the gaps still from the first two rounds of questions that we had asked the police to answer. And I mean, I get it that some, some of this too, even if we, if we, if we hire consultants, I don't know if they're going to be able to provide us with some of the information, especially if they don't have it within their system office. What have you, because that might point out what it is that they need to capture. Um, you know, that might be some of the recommendations we may need to make for them to capture certain information, right, depending on whatever it is we decide to do, you know, but that might be something. But I guess for me, I do want to talk with them, right. But I guess what would be the, the, the most kind of useful time in, in terms of talking to them, I guess it's the when. Um, because the thing is, is that, especially around the data with the, the race, gender data right now, yeah, they've provided some things and obviously in some of the data, they're like, well, this, this is fine, you know, especially around like kind of the process and stuff like that. They're just kind of like, oh, it goes with, with, you know, how much, you know, we have in terms of information, you know, what have you in terms of like certain comparative analysis. But I really, we need to make our own kind of independent comparative analysis. Obviously, I don't have the way without do that. Right. That's not my expertise. Um, so that's something that the consultants that we are going to have to do, right. Comparative analysis with the population with, you know, the kind of breakdown in terms of whatever the kind of parameters it is that we need so that we can really be able to have an informed analysis of that information. So for me, I think I'd like to have that before or not even before. I mean, I guess we could meet with them initially, but maybe we need to meet with them again or something like that, because I want to be able to say, okay, based on this analysis, this is what is showing up. What do you all say about XYZPQ. You see what I'm saying. Um, and we don't have that analysis yet. So, so that's my only kind of, um, hold back in terms of, of meeting with them right now. Um, so that's why I had even talked to, I had sent a response back to Mr. Wiley saying, well, do, you know, do we want to hide that the consultants first and then meet with them so that we can get that information. But obviously I understand too, in terms of trying to move forward, but I guess we need to figure out the, the, the when and the how. Uh, thank you, Ms. Rarer. Um, Ms. Owen. First, when I was reading the email and we are going back and forth, I did think we needed to meet with the police department first, but the more I think about it, I do think we should hold off because I'd rather be completely informed with the data before we talk with the police. So after we hire the consultant. Other comments. Ms. Pat. So a couple of things. I thought somebody had emailed us a bunch of data from the APD. There was a group that was a resident that spoke in one of our meetings. And then I think there was a. Um, document that was sent to us. Uh, Ms. Marston, do you know what I'm talking about? I do. So. It was the information collected from D fund for one three. And then also the league of women voters. So I, I remember, I remember looking at those documents and. Not everything, but I, I saw some, um, I actually saw salaries of all the police officers, including the chief on that document. Um, so that's one thing we should all take the time and go back and look at those documents. There's a lot. There was some graphics too. Um, that was included in that document. In terms of meeting with the police, my expectation is at some point we should meet with the police. I am flexible as to when, if we want to wait till, you know, after the consultant or prior bed, it would be nice for, uh, the APD to come and present to us. And if you have questions, we ask them, um, in addition to trying to collect data from the department. And the thing is what prevents us from requesting for public record, uh, information. That's how, uh, when I was the president for special education, I met school system when the school administration, when they refused to provide us with information, I had to get those documents from, uh, Desi and posted it on, um, CPAC website for everybody to see. So that's one option that we have. Um, they will pass the APD to give us the information we are looking for. And also they didn't, um, the town meeting. And at the time I'm also the select board had, um, in 2004 to create a form track traffic stop. So data information as to the racial, um, makeup of the people being stopped. So I'm hoping that the APD have, uh, some data on that at least. So that's what I have to say. Thank you, Ms. Patton. Um, Mr. Bachmann and then Mr. Mr. Vernon Jones. I'm so, so I'm sorry. We're just late to this. Um, I'm just looking at the screen and those are the questions that you have. I can follow up on it. Some of those are not APD, but it's, it's my responsibility to get that to you. And I'm remiss on doing that. Ms. Moisten has asked me to, and I forgot. I didn't forget. I just, and so I'll get those to you. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. But I think it's just, every one of those questions that I see under staffing and budget. Um, I don't know about the in terms of hires for the past 10 years, if that's easily accomplishable. Um, and the other one for those who are offered positions, what were the race and gender. I, I, we may have that. Um, but the other questions, I can pull that information together. And I miss Pat, to do its work and will work to make that happen. Thank you. And, you know, and the other thing I just want to mention listening to you that you don't have just a one shot to please anytime you want the chief to come you should feel free to invite him and you say we want to invite you back a second time or third time or fourth time whatever you feel would help your inform your work and he's and his staff are more than willing to be with you anytime you want them to. Mr Vernon Jones. Well, I think we probably are going to want to meet with the chief multiple times. I would suggest we see what information. Mr Bachman can get for us. Maybe before we actually meet with the chief. But he did send us data about stops by race. And I actually think he sent us the answer to this one about how many police officers currently served in the military and I'm sure I saw an answer to that one somewhere. But I say let's let's get what information Mr Bachman can provide first. As quickly as we can with hiring a consultant and then meet with the police department I think we're going to when we start talking about alternative services. I think we're going to have some questions about the numbers of calls that the police get around mental health and and all and I think we need that data in a way that we haven't quite asked for it yet. But I think we're, let's let's see what Mr Bachman can provide first and then let's plan a plan to meet with the chief and we'll see whether we have our consultant by then or not. Sorry I was muted. Well, I mean if we're going to. And I agree with asking Mr Bachman for the information, whatever information Mr Bachman you can provide to us I think yes you know just let us know which questions you're going to tackle. And so that we know but I think if he's going to be doing that that's going to take a little bit of time why not send these other questions to the chief in the meantime, you know what I'm saying. Send it to them, let them, let them get that to us, even if there's some repeats in there, I'm fine with it they'll just say we answered it already. You know, um, get it out to them and, and, you know, and then we'll go from there. I don't think it's a bad idea. I mean, you know as as Mr Bachman pointed out, they're supposed to be ready willing and able to respond to us. So, so let's keep asking the questions, and then they can say, hey, I do not have that information anymore or whatever the situation is, you know, and then we can set up once Mr Bachman tells us okay. Mr Bachman maybe that would be something that would be informative it's like how long you think the information that you need to provide us is going to take because then we can give the police the same amount of time to answer the other questions that are relevant to them. So I would take ownership of the questions I'm just looking at the questions are on the screen I can take ownership of those questions and within, you know, prior to your next meeting have either answers or explanations on what it would take to get answers for each one of those questions. Okay, yeah, so then we could just ask the police to answer those other questions by the next meeting. Yeah, and just in response to Mr. I mean, I, I was kind of an offensive conversation on this for and I had about whether the way, what if they go forward with this and I think the going forward was thinking about, you know, when are we probably going to have a consultant in place to be doing this and this might be quite a bit further down the line. And that's okay, if we're willing to do that but when I, you know, we look at our, our, our sort of proposed task list and what has to happen. There's going to be a lot this person is going to have to do within the month of months of March and April. And so if this person's just coming on. My suggestion was that we could do some, you know, this we're talking to the police to see what we, how much we can get beforehand I like the idea certainly of in Mr. Bachman you're going after some particular questions and what I'm going to suggest is perhaps the group that I'm working with Miss Allen, Mr. Kate, we can sort of zip through this list and see what, you know, what Mr. Vernon Jones was saying he said I think we have an answer to that. Let me take another look to see if we actually do. But, but if Mr. Bachman you want to launch that. Great. And I think I like Mr. Errer's idea of, you know, sending whatever we can to them and get it back as quickly as possible. And so some of these questions, you know, as Ms. Boyston points out, really go to HR or to accounting. That's where we want the data from because that will be, you know, they collect a lot of the state as well, not the APD necessarily. Yeah, this is where I think that the town could be helpful and that was part of the other point I was going to make is that we're asking the police department for stuff that they might not easily be able to put their finger on. But the town in its system was able to gather that stuff very quickly and put it in there. So that would be great. I think that would speed up the information sharing process and get us to where we need to be. So that's what we're going to do. Sounds good. Yeah. And Mr. Bachman, if there's something you need from us other than what we just talking about, please let us know. So the only thing that there might be, I might need to have some clarification questions for you in terms of what you want in terms of when accounting puts out a report because I can give you this, this, this, and I'll circle that back to the group and see if that's what you're looking for or not. Okay. One thing, one point I want to make and, you know, please chime in this for her and Ms. Owen, if you will, is this point of there not being a lot of racial ethnic data available and available in a way that can be analyzed and you know, compared is pretty substantial. This is the absence of it is pretty substantial I mean across the board so I don't know if that's some things are thinking about down the line. What kinds of capacity might be police department. This is many feeding into possible recommendations but thinking ahead. Any new information, new information, are we going to be asking the police department and other departments that say even in the town that we're not asking right now, or either we're asking and they don't have the capacity collected. So, you know, just thinking down the line that's, that's something to note. I think there's going to be some, some, still some gaps in the racial ethnic categories that will have to fill this moisten. I just wanted to speak on that so the when you complete an application for the town. So it, it's optional whether or not you want to identify yourself to a particular race. And so the information isn't required. We have some of it but it's not necessarily it wouldn't be all of the police, you know, like a total of all police officers it would be just those who identified themselves. Thank you. Well, thank you all will proceed and govern ourselves accordingly on that and thank you for that guidance I think we all, you know, I needed it certainly and I'm glad you have a chance to weigh in on it as well. So it actually took care of a and B terms of the meeting because that was part of it that was part of the question. So, I'd like to go directly to the update on the bid process. Look at next steps I want to thank. I think of who who was on that. Mr Vernon Jones and this Walker were you on that. This Walker. There was someone else wasn't there. And that. And me. Yeah, yeah, thank thank the three of you for putting in that extra work on that and getting that to us. And I'll just defer to you all and you can start where you'd like. Well, the we we met as a subcommittee. With this moist and and with Anthony Delaney the town procurement officer. Was that just yesterday. And we had each of us had made some suggestions for changes to the, what was then the current draft. And I think Mr. Bachman and Mr. Delaney waited on that. But in our meeting we went through the document, sort of line by line with Mr. Delaney's help. And there may be one or two things about dates that we still need to work through with Mr. Bachman and maybe we can do that now. But I think what we've. We're ready to propose that the document, I think as you received it with maybe some possible date clarifications. We're ready to recommend that to the. So the working group is that right Alicia and miss Pat. And then Mr. Yeah, sort of it's right, but that's another issue that we raised yesterday that wasn't resolved in terms of the level of CSWG involvement in in the consulting work. If we want to pull up the document I can show you guys. Yeah, I think I'm going along the same lines of what miss Pat was talking about the one that the only thing and thank you so much you all did a great job just kind of, you know, going along with what we had discussed last week, it looked really great. And I think you all said like the dates and stuff that we can discuss with Mr. Bachman, but the other thing that I noted and I think it goes along with miss Pat is the line that says scope of work and the first line is it's a successful vendor will work at the direction of the town manager based upon guidance provided by the CSWG to provide the following services so I guess I was confused about that because before I thought we were we were the ones that were going to be providing the guidance to the town manager and so I that's a change so I just wanted to get some background on why that change happened. So what happened yesterday was, we deferred it for Mr. Delaney to check in with the town manager. Is that correct. No, wasn't to discuss. So everybody is here tonight so that's good. That's good. Yeah. Thank you for for joining us. And you had your hand up after this for era. I was wondering if you wanted me to pull the document up. Yes, please. I will leave that to the folks who are working on that let them lead from where they are. And we'll follow suit. So I did the version you have has the old dates but I did manage to connect with Mr. Bachleman this afternoon to update. So the dates and the version on the screen in front of you have an updated but everything else should match the draft that you were emailed. Is this legible. Should I zoom in more for everyone. Everyone's good. Okay, it's good. So, would you like me to kind of give an overview of the, because that we did make some pretty substantial changes from the version that was presented to the entire committee last week would you like me to do a general overview of what's changed and then maybe start going section by section. Yes, that sounds good. Okay, so, so we have converted this from an RFP request for proposals to an invitation for bid, which is a straightforward competition on price once you meet the minimum qualifications. This, we have structured this to allow for multiple awards. So the scope of work has been divided into three main categories. The first category can bid on one or all of the one or two or three of the items and if they're the low price for that category of work and they're otherwise qualified then they will be awarded. So, part a is the community engagement function. Part a is I think basically the stuff under community engagement I believe is basically unchanged. I have taken the previously previously timeline and budget and report where items in the scope of work on their own, but since we are dividing this procurement into up to three contracts I have placed the time I've placed the timeline and budget on its own under part a, and also part of the report section, also under part a part B is the emerging trends section which I believe is also largely the same. I have again included timeline and budget under it and the entirety of the report aspect of the work under B. Part B is I believe it's a new addition from the version that was presented last week is provide insights to address structural and systemic racism and policing. Meetings were previously their own item under the scope of work but since we're not sure how many vendors we have I pulled it out into just a general section to the scope of work. However, however many categories of vendors awarded they'll be expected to attend up to 25 hours of meetings over zoom. This section in blue. I believe was a suggestion from Mr Wiley and I think we'd like to ask the committee how they feel about it. Perhaps we set up a an expected calendar of meetings. If the committee is comfortable in scheduling itself in that way it would set up the vendor with an expectation for how and when they would need to be available. If the committee is interested in in deciding it at this time. The interpretation and translation section has been updated. We discovered that the town has its own interpretation services that people can schedule. So we've taken that out of the procurement and that will be in the town's hands rather than the vendors which, which I think is will make it easier for any vendors who are applying, not having to coordinate those services that the town already can. Submittals I believe are unchanged except that we did specify the supplier diversity office certifications that a vendor could submit to these are the four categories that the SDO certifies companies in the state in and the rule for award has been updated for three categories. The boilerplate sections about bid terms are unchanged. Some requirements have been simplified a bit. I tried to make them a little clearer so a prospective vendor will have to demonstrate two positive references for any of the following areas. Similar projects anti racist work consulting contracts with other communities or lived experiences of racism and references documenting a positive track record of working with communities on racial equity and police reform. And those references will be evaluated based on this paragraph that the vendor demonstrates an understanding of the role racism plays in policing historically implicit racial bias and policing. And respect and dignity for all people in marginalized constituencies and an ability to manage multiple assignments and meet deadlines. This is the bid form, which I don't believe anyone has seen yet. But essentially, the three items are their own lines and vendor can write in their price for each or write no bid if they're only bidding on certain ones. This is just reminding them what they need to attach to the design here. Standard town contract. And then standard forms. And then the legal ad. So, under this timeline, if we approve tonight, I will submit the ads to the Gazette tomorrow. So they should be able to run on Monday the eighth. I would have it live for bids for two weeks, but I don't like things do on Monday, so I would have it do on Tuesday the 23rd. And I would, we also discussed this wouldn't be part of the document but we also discussed in the subcommittee meeting that the committee might want to designate one or two people to work with me to evaluate the references to do reference checks. It's not something I really want to do on my own. I would definitely value input there. That wouldn't necessarily need to be decided tonight could be decided anytime before the bids are due. So that's the bid due dates and then with Mr. Backelman this afternoon. The draft of the report will be presented to him on by March 19 with a completed report the following week on the 26th. So I have set the end the expected end date of the agreement for April one. And I will stop talking now I think that's it. I actually had a question. So, are we only advertising for this or are we going to advertise across the state for this. We'll be putting this on the combines portal, which is the bid advertising site that the state runs. And then Gazette will put it on the town's website we will do a social media push through the through the town's channels. And of course, this committee will be free to publicize the link share it with other groups. It'll be a public bid so it'll be we won't be paying for ads anywhere else but I imagine we'll be propagating the information elsewhere if there are other news outlets that we want to reach out to. We could we could we could do the bulletin if or the telegramming is at her or someone or anywhere if the if the committee thought it was worthwhile. All right, and the other question. Well, the other thing is just a statement. I might be interested in helping you out with that so I don't know if Jen you can just put that in the notes that I might be interested in that. But yeah, that's it. Thank you. Mr. So I just have to unmute. So I guess just for clarity sake, again, just to make sure all on same page since this is such an important aspect of what we're doing on obviously going to be paying consultants. So the April 1 again is just based on what we had talked about previously right which is the first part of our charge, and then we're going to do another bit for the second part that will include the second report. Correct. Okay. And then, and then for me, the other one is still the same question that asked previously. Why is it that we're working at the direction of the town and manager based upon the guidance. So not clear on that. So generally consultants and other vendors hired by committees still work at the direction of whoever the staff liaison is, if only because the staff liaison is a is available always during business hours and the committee. If there's a question would need to post a meeting assemble and then answer it. So the staff is the staff is there and flexible. I don't have any comments, but it does tend to be the way that other committees have have done work have done have have hired people in the past. Well, can we then make it a little bit stronger though. I mean, I guess we'll work at the direction of the town manager based upon guidance. I'm just not liking that guidance part. I was going to say more direction, you know, upon got upon direction provided by the CSWG, you know what I'm saying or something like that. And this seems it makes it a little bit lukewarm in terms of what we're doing. You know what I'm saying. So, I don't know, I would, I would feel better with a stronger word there. You know, I'm fine with it being if that's what needs to be I get what you're saying because we're not going to be, you know, always available because we're not there from whatever time you know nine to three or whatever your offices are open I get that. Whatever I just want a little bit stronger supposed to just guidance. I'm not feeling that. Miss Walker, and then Mr. Vernon Jones. So I'm wondering if you can explain Mr. Delaney, what the real tangible difference would be if we were to change the language there. Would that require us to like we can appoint one person to answer those things or what it would actually look like if we changed the language there. I don't know that I have an exact answer for you there. It would depend on it depends on what you changed it to I think the, I think the effect of, I think you might serve to clarify the relationship between the town manager and the committee. I think as long as the basic words of the same the fact will remain that they'll be directed in their day to day questions by the town manager with the, with the overall scope of work determined here and I don't know if I would, if, if Mr. Backelman wants to weigh in here. Yeah, let me go to Mr. Vernon Jones first he had his hand up and then Mr. Backelman. I'll wait till after Mr. Backelman if I may. I also had my. So I think it's good points and I think, you know, I understand what Ms. Farrow saying is maybe a better word than guidance supervision or, you know, policy direction policy policy direction something like that. And under our town for under a form of government the town manager signs all contracts so technique, no, not technically realistically, the town manager is the contracting authority, just by definition. Since this is a monetary contract, the town manager is ultimately responsible for making sure that the, the, the tasks are completed, and I sign off on, you know, the bills before they get, get sent out so committees don't do that function. And that's why, you know, the town, you know, we usually have a staff person before I approve a bill if there's a different contract that staff person has to sign off saying yes they completed tasks, a BNC because the vendors often will come and say, Hey, we're ready to get paid we're ready to get paid. It's our job as staff to verify that the, the work was done. And in this case would be have to, you know, make sure that you were satisfied with the work and then it was done as well. Currently it's up to the manager to sign off on those requests for payment, which is becomes that's why you have a contract to make sure it's clear. There is a person who's ultimately responsible for that. But I think, you know, if you wanted stronger language, I'd be supportive of that for the for the working group to, to be clear that it's the working group that's helping to set the agenda for this. Thank you. Mr. Verne Jones, you deferred to Mr. Backelman. So I'm going to go back to you then Miss Pat. Okay. I would suggest that we make this work at the direction of the town manager within the context of direction from the CSWG. Say that again please. The successful vendor will work at the direction of the town manager within the context of direction from the CSWG. And he wrote it, he updated it in the yellow. Yeah, I see. I mean, if somebody has better wording, I'm not attached to this but I also wanted this stronger. Let's sit with that for a second. Let me go to Ms. Pat sheet had her hand up after you. So a couple of things. And listening to the town manager from business perspective, it makes sense for, you know, a staff person to be responsible for financial aspect of the consulting work and some certain questions because there are also legal issues involved as well. So, thank you, Mr. Backelman for explaining that. I also want to thank Mr. Delaney for the flexibility yesterday when I raised that we should include other organized groups like the vets, women, satisfaction, so I'm very excited and happy that I was included. Thank you for the flexibility. And the last thing I want to say is that I really enjoy working with the subgroup. It's been fun. And I would like to volunteer myself to be part of the review to help Mr. Delaney, if that's okay with the group. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Mr. Backelman. I have one comment and actually have a question for Anthony, which I did not think in advance so the first one is, can you go to the section. If you the qualifications for winning the bid. There, there are, it's, there are just two things that people have that successful bidders they have to have these two positive references under these things. If you, if the review team says yes, then you open up then you look at the price and say the lowest bid who said yes gets the gets the contract. So it's a it's so it was very important is that the minimum requirements be exactly what you want in this. So you, if someone is able to hit all those things, you're going to give them the contract. No, it's answered, but so that's number one. Number two is something I asked, I didn't think of until now is, Anthony, suppose there is, you know, a vendor who's a low bid on A and C. But there's a different bit, but they're not there the second lowest bidder on item B, but they working group really wants to work just with one group, one, one person or group or whoever it is. Do they have to divide up the bid into three, three sections. Yes. Yeah, we can, we can, we have to set our rule for award in advance. So if we are doing up to three contracts based on three individual areas, then we're awarding the lowest for each area. If we value having one vendor, then we should set our rule for award that we're looking to award one vendor. It's okay. We, we, we need to make our rules clear up front so that the vendors know what they're competing against and how to structure their bids. Okay. Ms Walker. We had a brief conversation about that yesterday with the subcommittee and I think our thoughts around this and correct me if I'm wrong miss Pat and Mr Vernon Jones was that having it split into three sections would really allow us to look, or allow the vendors also to apply their qualities to the specific tasks we're asking them to do and not to try to spread them thin, or have them have stronger suits in certain areas and not in other areas. Yeah. So, a question, Mr Laney so we were going to, you know, April, let's say April 1 is when we're looking to kick this thing off, and we're supposedly going to have three. Let's say we have we have three different vendors in place ready to go in April 1. I, I think April 1 was actually our targeted wrap update. Okay, that's what we were about. Yeah, I think we'd be looking to have them have three vendors ready to go by end of the month. Yeah. And the end of February and the February. Yeah. Okay, that's fine. That's fine. I'm clear about that. Mr Vernon Jones you had your hand in this Walker. Well, two things one is. You know, if we're not even going to open the bids until the 23rd, we may not get an award till the end of very end of February, which means there's really only a month to do all this work. So I wanted to raise again the question of whether the maybe that April 1 state can be pushed back a bit. And the way this is written, where the timelines are, I'd like to make it clearer that the consultants report has to be submitted to the working group. The working group is going to submit it to Mr Bachman. And I know where I think we all understand that but the way it's written seems like might mislead the the bidders. Okay. This Walker, were you were you next, even a list here, please. Yeah, sorry. Sorry. So I was actually going to ask Mr Delaney to scroll up to the dates, as well, and to just go over them again, because I, my understanding was that if we were to approve this tonight, we could have the bidding open on the eighth, it would close on the 23rd. And that's what we're going to take for us to choose a contract and for that to be signed off on and for the work to begin. And I feel like March 12 for them to have an entire draft is a little bit unrealistic, because if we look at what we're asking them to do, and then the amount of time we're giving them to do it. I'm not sure if that makes sense. But we do end up awarding a consulting company that's not based in Amherst. I don't really know how we're going to expect them to get the work done in that amount of time. Yeah, if, if we need, if we need a date for the draft to be presented to the working group, then to the town manager then the final report that, yeah, that seems like too much. We would have, I think we would need to push the schedule back a bit. Yeah, Mr. Vernon Jones in this room. I just wanted to ask Mr. Bachman, what, what do you think is possible in terms of putting back pushing back the dates here. Well, I think. No, I'm sorry. Yes. So I think that we can certainly take out that that the 19th of 26 that's too much time I don't need that much time. You know, we can push that a little bit. But the real question is that we established March 31 as the date that the council is looking for a report from the manager. And so, if the concept of this was that the consultant would have a draft, it would be submitted, there'd be a week to turn it to go back and forth with the working group and the manager and then it goes to the council by the 31st so I think, even if we made that scrunch up those dates, it buys you a few weeks, but it still really is. I mean, when Ms. Walker said it's three weeks of work, you know, and I guess the question the answer is, is there any way we can open bid? The bids will be decided on the day they get opened. The number will be the number. Then we'll move into contract phase. Is there any way to move? If it goes into the, if we get it out tomorrow, is there any way to move it? It has to be published for two weeks. Is that accurate? Yes. And the newspaper is a two business day lead time. So approving it tonight, the earliest it could be available is the eighth. I could have it do on the 22nd instead of the 23rd. I think that's one day. As you say, we would know the, we'll know the winning bidder, the ostensible winning bidders right off, but we'll still have to check the references. Right. And then the other thing is we could go to the council and with the council, if the working group wanted to that say we March 31, knowing that the procurement schedule can't be achieved, we need more time. Thank you, Ms. Walker. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Vernon Jones and Mr. I have a couple of things. One, I'm just looking at dates here. And so if we were to close the bids on the 23rd and we had a committee who could look at those bids together on the 24th and choose somebody. I think that really doesn't make sense at all. And I think it's impossible. And I think we should probably think about going to the town council and asking them now. About our time. Yeah, Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah. I think we have to ask the council to meet with the working group. Because then that only gives us one, two, three, four working for business days before the 31st of March that we could even meet with them for our first initial meeting. So I think that really actually doesn't make sense at all. Yeah, I think we have to ask the council for another month. I don't think no responsible bidder would bid on this as a job to be done in three weeks. Impossible. Mr. Aaron. Yeah, I mean, I think the only thing is, and that's what we have to hear from Mr. Vernon Jones is in terms of the budget and all those things. Remember, that was the reason why they put a part of the charge as, you know, the, the, and the date in terms of when we needed to get, get it, you know, the other thing too we need to think about is that and I agree and hopefully if we can, if we can extend it, I guess we should, you know, but, but I guess we get me to be careful in terms of obviously the budget stuff. I think we should. But the other thing is, is that most likely we're going to get multiple folks working on this they're not going to work on all three, they're going to be working on one of them. So, for me, at least that makes me feel a little better now that like they're working on all three pieces they're working on one of the pieces, even though, even one of the pieces is a lot. You know, we need to think that it's their team if they're bidding on it they're saying they can do it and they need to meet, you know, meet our deadlines. We're also going to have to, we're going to have to consider, you know, if we go with three, you know, consultant entities let's say those are could be three distinct different contact contacts we need to make on a fairly regular basis with these folks because of the three different pieces they're working on. And I'm thinking about the time to how to manage that. And again, going back to Mr Bachman what you were saying about the 31st and report and the budget process. How far could we extend this work and still be solvent with the budget work you have to do for the town. I think that's. So I have to submit a budget to the town council on May 1. We're obviously working on the budget. We've been working for months on it. We have not done a significant work in this, you know, sort of deferring to the working groups work and knowing that but anticipating that there's going to be something that has to happen in this area. But given that it, you know, our budget will be, I can, I'm not sure exactly how to approach it. We, we, it's a money thing. So, but by, you know, I, we can't have it do on the same day my budget is due because it's not going to be helpful at that point. My name is Walker. I don't know about you guys, but is there any of us here who have not come up with alternative public service public safety services for our community. Isn't that what the, you know, town council is asking for for us to submitted our draft, not final. But at the end of, at the end of a match. Isn't that what they're asking for for us to submit a draft. Understanding is we're supposed to be giving them. Let me, I'm sorry, I didn't about the my flow there. Ms. rare, I think you, you were next. No, I think there was someone else. Walker, I miss Walker than Ms. rare. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to be like a little bit off track, but I just wanted to propose that because you did mention, we'd have to meet with three separate groups if we award three separate contracts on a regular basis. If it would be possible, we could set like one meeting and try to just invite all three. I think that might be something we might want to think about. I know it might be hard to crunch it in, but it's a time crunch anyways. And then the other thing I wanted to say is even though this is split into three separate sections, which does also make me feel a lot better about it. It's a substantial amount of work. I think we need to go through each section and actually look at what we're asking them to do. I think we need to be a little bit realistic here, like we're asking them to go into communities to collect data to do all of these things. And if we think about how long it has taken us to get the amount of data and the things that we have gotten right now. It's very unrealistic. It's rare. Yeah, I mean, and I hear that Ms. Walker obviously, you know, but the thing is though, we have to be able to, for me, my thing is with this we can't be able to make recommendations that are going to be one time sensitive and also doable because if we make recommendations like Mr. Bachman said, you know, come May 1 of we submit something the week before whatever. They're not even going to take our recommendations seriously it's not going to be put into place. You see what I'm saying. So, you know, I think, I mean we could go maybe two weeks after that Mr. Bachman with that work, you know, like maybe up until April 9 or something like so we give them two extra weeks. My thing is listen if you're going to bid for something that means you're going to deliver. You know what I'm saying I can't make the judgment for these folks if we get no bids we see that we were ridiculous. Right. No one, no one, you know, no one thought that they could do it, that we would be ridiculous about it but if you're going to bid on it. You know, you need to have the staff to do what you say you're going to do. You know what I'm saying I can't make the decisions for what I can do is say to Mr. Bachman, tell me what are the days that we can extend it by so that our recommendations can be can go into it's going to be budget relevant. You said I'm saying I don't want to make recommendations so late that then it's not even taken into consideration there was the point of hiring all these consultants wasting all this money. And then our recommendations don't get put into place, because me that's the reason why I joined this committee is because, hey, we're working all of this will make recommendations needs to be taken seriously and put into place. You know, I dig and I'm thinking from business perspective, if we're lucky enough to have enough beaters and we select them. You know, and they give out the budget they should be able to hire appropriate personnel that will do the work for them with you know we demand that we wanted within three to four weeks. I mean it's a business, you know, they're getting paid to do it. I also think that if we wait until the consultants make a presentation to us, we might be kind of late in in the submitting a draft of our own recommendation about alternative public safety. I mean, I'm okay with what Miss Verrera has suggested about April 9. I'm okay with that. But I don't know about you guys, you know, but I've already made up my mind, you know, some alternative services I would like to see in almost already regardless if we have consultants or not. And that's why I joined this group. So let's not kid ourselves. You know, I'm now waiting for the consultants to give me additional or new information because I like so many of you in the committee, you know, leave the experiences every single day. So let's come on. Yep. That's what I want to say. Thank you. So let me go back. I can Mr. Delaney to you. So, let's, and I guess this is what Miss Walker was pointing to, like, I'd like to go back to this schedule so let's say the the earliest first moment we can do something is, is what that's what you said the eighth. The eighth is when the bid will go live when it will be available for people to read and respond to. So the 22nd was would be you said we said the 23rd at first but then you said the 22nd we could probably have it get it back. Yeah, that would be the that would be the earliest we could set as a due date for responses. Okay, and then the responses we look at them and the decision is made. I guess that's what you said Mr. Bachman at that moment. If I can speak. So we award the apparent will know the apparent low bidder immediately upon opening the bids, then we need to make sure their references check out. Assuming we are able to contact the references right away, then maybe the next morning we know who they are. If there's if it takes longer to contact or check references or if there's questions about their references then it's gonna take longer but if we're if we're lucky, then we could we could have that confirm the next morning and I'll have the contract ready to go. You know, with 24 hours after that hopefully. So that's that's a that's definitely a best case scenario. Yeah, let me just take this one and then I'll get to you Mr. Brian Jones. So let's say the 22nd. And then then let's say that the 24th. Everything's clear. Everything's good. What happens next. We send them a contract. They read it over sign return to us. It's signed by the comptroller and then by Mr. Bachman. Well actually probably just the comptroller because it'll probably be a low value. It'll be signed by the town personnel. And then at that point, once it's been signed by the town, the work can proceed. We would put them in touch with with their staff person who I assume will be will be Mr. Bachman and will arrange our kickoff meeting or give them whatever instructions we need to give them to start the work. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones and Ms Walker. Given that we have detailed some things that we want these references to show. I would propose that we ask for written references. We'll still have to make phone calls to confirm them. But in terms of a group, you know, two or three people analyzing whether they meet our criteria would be helpful to have them in writing. And if I could justify that, I would recommend we pick the latest date. Mr. Bachman thinks this is workable for the ending date and adjust the report dates. And I like what Alicia said about. You know, if we're going to receive these on the 22nd. Can we decide whether our meat could our meeting be on Thursday the 25th and could we put right in the bid that the successful bidders would be expected to meet with us on the evening of February 25th. Mr. Bachman. Listening to the members of the committee and so as Ms Pat said, there, a lot of thought has already gone on to into the alternative models for policing, which is tasks to which is item two in this, in this invitation for bed. And one thing the committee could consider is or the working group could consider is segment that out and have that a standalone alone thing that has the, the, you know, March 31 April 9 whatever it is deadline. The other two tasks, they can go beyond that deadline date. The, you know, the, the outreach work and the, if you want to, I mean, I'm just trying to think of how can the committee use its time most expeditiously to say we're going to focus on this thing first and then these other things we're going to continue on through June. So it might, it might, you might elicit different bidders looking at them. And you could even have two different IFBs go out, technically, just a thought. I'm sure if Anthony has thoughts on that. Okay. Great, you answered my question because I was actually going to ask that why do they all have they don't, I was feeling like they didn't all have to be do on the same date because we're, we have that piece of essential stuff that need like the mental health stuff, whatever that needs to be taken care of immediately we need to have something in place. But then we have stuff that's like, it's important and very needs to be taken care of but it doesn't have the urgency. It doesn't have to be needing to be on this, you know, April 9 or whatever, whatever date we decide on, it doesn't have to be that urgent, but, and that would, that would open it up to more people who would want to be able to bid on it because, you know, there may be other organizations working on other stuff that could really help us but they're working on other stuff and with a short deadline they wouldn't be able to help us but then if they had a longer one then yeah that might, that might work to our benefit. So I was actually just going to say the same thing as Mr Vernon Jones and that if we are going to put this out I think we should put it out with the date for our first meeting in it. I know Mr Vernon Jones proposed the 25th, if that's possible I think that would be great I was going to propose a day than the following week in case it took a little bit longer to get to reach out to references or whatsoever might happen in that process. So Mr Delaney was was articulating what would be the ideal, if you could, if you could make it happen. And it seemed like the 23rd, or maybe even the 24 would be the really good if it would happen in that quick a time and so the next, you know, the next day would be the meeting. I mean we'd have to also be prepared for that meeting as a group to so we, you know, just saying there is a lot going on there that that particular time. So what does the group think about going with the, you know, be as a separate entity and sticking with A and C, as the, as the other two. Mr Vernon Jones. I don't like that approach. I still wonder whether Mr Barclay could give us another week even on that one piece. But I like splitting them and putting it out as a separate invitation for bid with assure with the earlier timeline for the alternative services and the significantly later timeline for the community outreach and the other one. That resonates with me to especially on the community outreach side because that's pretty extensive then it's probably a lot deeper than we probably even anticipate at this point. And it's going to grow so other folks who haven't spoken to this, and I can't, I can't see whether this moment has her hand up or not this. Because the screens and I can see everybody else is here and so many needs to help me with that. This fair. Yeah, I'm in agreement with that if you know just to kind of focus on the one that we need to really deal with for the first report, and then kind of have a longer timeline for the other two pieces. Again, I think, I think Mr Delaney is kind of making some changes to the dates, but you know we need to make sure that, like I said, I think Mr Delaney you put like April 30 or whatever that's not going to be feasible for in terms of the budget and stuff has to be a lot earlier. So, Mr Bacham and I guess that I just need to ask you, you know, can we get an actual week for the consultant like April 5 or, I mean, I don't have April in front of me. April 2, April 9, so that we're our budget, so that when we get you that report that our recommendations are taken seriously and actually can be implemented. Yes, we could just certainly do April 9 that just, you know, I'd want to be sort of like making sure I'm watching what the consultant is doing. So it's not just suddenly surprised at the end we want to you're going to have to be involved with the work that they're doing weekly. So we're all sort of like seeing where it's going and that can help us work on our end. Yeah, I mean if I could just follow up to that. Yeah, I think, you know, once these consultants are on board. I think we definitely need to be all involved with them because they're going to be doing a big chunk of the work but we need to be making sure we are giving them the direction that they need. You know, very be very specific and very guided so that they know exactly what we need them to do, you know. And then there was one other thing and I lost my train of thought so I'll let someone else speak and then I'll miss Pat had your hand up. I mean, I don't have objection if we want to go with the this one. Something that we need to ask ourselves is what is our expectation in terms of community engagement. Do we want consultant that get hired to solicit. feedback from residents about alternative public safety services that they would like to see in their community. Is it the expectation that we need to get that information if yes then we may want to rethink if we're going to prioritize community engagement as well. I know it's very extensive that if somebody, you know, think that they can do it they should have enough ambassadors or, you know, employees to, you know, to reach out to different constituents that we have in this community. But if the goal is not for us to get input from resident about what changes they would like to see then maybe it's not important I don't know. That's fair. I mean, I think in terms of that miss Pat I think you had already kind of said it I think for we've already gathered a lot of information we've had two forums. I think for this first portion of it. I think we really need to get have the consultants just kind of, you know, get all the information that we already have in place and the information from the forums and obviously with our guidance to really kind of hone in and get the information that we have the surveys information to which we haven't really looked at, at least I know I haven't looked at. So that needs to be looked at that's more important, you know, we have these groups that already, you know, that we already have a list of groups if we wanted them to do anything else we already have those groups to kind of get some information, you know, I think they really have a lot already to hit the ground running. We just need to get, and a lot of us, as you stated miss Pat a lot of us already have already at a certain point in terms of really even knowing which way we're going with this. It's more so just about kind of synthesizing all the data, getting us some fine points, and then us making some recommendations. That's what I, that's what I like to like to offer in addition to that I think when we're talking about we're not there yet but these aren't kind of recommendations I see us making that are going to be kind of a one and done thing you know we do our thing to make these recommendations and just walk away from it. That these recommendations would probably have some, you know, some legs under it in a way that resonates with the community beyond the work of the safety working group. The recommendations are going to have some longevity in the town and have some continuance in the town so even at, you know, let's say, at some point we might not get all of it caught up in our in our recommendations but the recommendation if they're stated such can do enough follow up work to continue and expand the work going forward, and have it have some meaning over time. The recommendations are someone going to be more immediate certainly some going to be more concrete others might be a little more subjective and, you know, involving ongoing commitment from from the community and the police department, for example. So I think we can we do our best, and I get back to what Mr. Eris saying getting back to, you know, making recommendations that are going to be doable, you know, achievable. The recommendations are worth fighting for if you will, and that that that, you know, people are going to say, yes, this will get his job. So, it's a fine line between trying to get it done quickly to meet a deadline, and we don't want to miss having quality in there as well so that's the dilemma we're all struggling with but we put our sort of nose to the grindstone kind of thing we can. I think it's going to get happen for sure. We're going to need a little more time though Mr bottom and so, you know that's that's in the works of the comments. Mr Delaney then Mr Jones, Mr. Jones. I was just trying to take the temperature of where if we have a consensus on what we would like as a as a timeline I've currently got for be for emerging trends. I was asked by March 26 report, completed by April 2 with I guess the expectation that turns around to the council by the ninth. And then I kind of picked for community engagement just picked out of the hat dates in April. And we don't actually have any dates on part C yet, but I, I'm just plugging those in based on other comments but I don't know what consensus is so. I'm going to run and join this comment and then we can take the temperature. Yeah, I'm, I'm good with those days I would think that we might want some interim data from the community engagement folks. Not that they would be finished but we could get a preliminary report from them in order in time to inform our alternative services proposal. I don't know whether that needs to be in the bid or whether that's just part of how we supervise them once they're, they're hired. So that's one question and the second one I didn't. I was hoping to get a response from you Mr Delaney about the possibility of requesting written references. Yes, Mr Delaney. So to the first point. I think that this proposed project schedule section in the IFB that was that was blank until now. I think it might make sense to include lines that say like progress update on part a and then a meeting date. I think that would be that would be good to fill in written references so I wasn't entirely clear. I kind of require that references be submitted in writing. Generally on my bids that takes the form of name title phone number or email address and then I, you know, normally if it's a carpenter or something that I'm that I'm calling the reference and saying, how was their work was it done on time where there any change orders. I'd be doing something similar here but were you thinking more like a letter of recommendation. I was thinking these should be detailed letters of recommendation that give some provides flesh out all these things we've said are minimum requirements. Because I think we, we may be in the case of trying to decide whether a better meets that are not. It would be good if we had a written statement that, you know, three people could look at and talk about whether, you know, does this one really meet our minimum requirements or does it not. And then we would make phone calls the verify but I think we really want to add have written statements references to analyze, because the whole selection process may hang on whether or not we think they've met the minimum requirements that we've specified. I would agree with that and also around getting very specific written recommendations. It's it speaks specifically to the skill sets and experience of people. Sometimes I might might get a reference, a recommendation that speaks very highly of the person but doesn't go into any detail about what their knowledge base is what their experience is what their capacity to do the work is, and you don't get a good read on the person in fact they might be really the best, but because the recommendation didn't speak to it sufficiently. It's very easy to, to, you know, to bypass such a person. So, this rare. Yeah, I mean I think I'm okay with letter recommendations, especially if they're detailed and specific, but we would definitely need to follow up with calls I don't think the letter recommendation replaces the calls. Just because, you know, I know I haven't hired people in the past. Based on on talking doing, you know, talking doing the reference checks the talking to the people and really asking some key question. A lot. So, because, yeah, so anyway that's my only point. So, let me go back to Mr. Delaney's point of reference we're talking about the temperature in the room. You know before us is the idea that we would go forward with our section B along that that timeline of April 2 April night, hopefully April night, and then put the others on a different time frame, Mr. And is that something. I'm not looking at the thing right now so I can't get it specifically but is that something that is resonating with the with the working group right now as a path to follow. And just raise the hands or thumbs up. Okay, I want to say something. Okay. As long as there is a moment so. As long as that is a language I think Mr. Delaney already stated a interim progress as suggested by Mr. Ross, I'll be okay with that. With the, with the committee engagement if that is going to be an interim progress. So, we can extend the date I'll be okay with that. Yes, I'm okay with that. Certainly. I think everyone else is. I think I want to speak for everyone else. Also getting back to the point of, you know, if we have a consultant the consultant, you know, does work for us. So it, you know, we, we can ask for things we can, you know, unless it's outrageous, you know, we go outside of the, you're not going to go outside of their agreement. But it would be important to have these timelines in place so that they do know they're going to interact with us and we're going to have questions and we're going to have input so I think this works out fine. Thank you all any, any other comments. Mr. Lane. So I have one comment and then one question. We will get this up as soon as I have a link. I will share it with with miss moisten to forward on to the committee. And you guys can share it with your with your other groups with people you think might be interested or who know people that might be interested. That link will probably come on. Probably come on Monday morning first thing. So you are also free to send me any contact info that you have, and I can reach out to them directly when the link goes live either way. If anyone you reach out to has questions, if they're really basic questions like where is the bid, you can answer that but if they have substantive questions about what's meant here. Could you clarify this, those should really be submitted in writing to me. That's both to prevent anyone from getting in trouble or getting inside info, but also if there's a if many people asking the same question that signals to me that maybe something's unclear something needs to be amended. And then we can get that out to everybody. And my last question is I was wondering if maybe we could come up with a catchier title. So we've got it as consulting services for the community safety working group. And I've been trying to think of something that indicates exactly what we're looking for to an interested party off the bat, consult the consulting services for racial equity in in community services, something, something like that, but something something a little punchier. So, I am open to suggestions. Yeah, it's, it's fine, but if it but I think we might want to kind of wear on our sleeve from the, from the start that we're we're looking for racial equity, racial justice. Well, can you say racial equity and public safety services, something like that, or the community safety, I know it makes it long, but it kind of goes more towards what we're trying to do. And that's that's kind of what I was looking for you. Yeah, Mr. Bachmann. For racial equity. So I do think what Mr. Delaney said is you will be read, people will reach out to you as members of the committee, who may be consultants and you, you're some of you will be making the, the reviewing the bids. So make sure that you do not enter entertain those comments or those comments get directed for all of our organizations they all get directed to Mr. Delaney he collects them. If he doesn't know the answer he reaches out and gives them this so that all of our bidders get are getting the same information so someone asked a question. He sends it to anybody who's asked for the proposal. So there's clarity. So, right, thank you. Back to the name I'm, and this is to probably give evidence of why I'm not good at this, but is it. Yeah, I can't. Yeah, I'm going to call you just a second. And I can see it. It's so it's, is it for this community safety working group or is it for the town of Amherst. It's, it's for both really the fact that it's for the community safety working group might not be important in the title, the bid ad is going to lead with the town of Amherst it'll be in the headline. Okay, that's fine. Yeah. So I'm Mr. Bachman. Thank you for raising that because sometimes people who didn't get to be my challenge. And it's very important. That's why I volunteer to be part of the reviewing because it has to be very transparent and what I want to use on spacing out that we cannot be all of us like giving information to different people. Because if they didn't, if people didn't end up getting the big they might challenge and ask questions why they didn't. So we really have to be careful in the community as to information we can answer to potential questions. I speak from experience that's why thank you. Thank you very much. So thank you I guess we're all set with this at this particular time and we'll hear from you Mr. Delaney, Mr. Vernon Jones. I would like to express my real appreciation to Mr. Delaney for his work with the subcommittee and with us tonight. And to Mr. Bachman for his input on this and his problem solving as we start talked about the dates and decided to split this tonight. I think we're we're fortunate to have both of you. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. We'll move ahead then. Thank you all very much again thanks also for the folks again our working group folks for working on this and getting us to this point. Appreciate it. We talked about compensation for citizens participating in our surveys and getting the information back to us. And I think we left it where we're going to have a conversation about it. We had talked about the, the amount of $25 as a as a first point of reference, and wanted to go bring us back up to the group is to find out in line with that thinking, and what might be some of the consideration going forward in terms of how that is managed under what circumstances do folks receive such a stipend if you will. How often, if you think we do multiple surveys, those kinds of things so I, I know we're all in favor of doing something to support that. And in the name of $25 but I'd like to get some clarity on it and maybe come up with a proposal on what we need to do to move this forward miss Pat and then Mr. For the sake of time, may I recommend that we have a subcommittee work on this and, you know, maybe present something. Next time if it's okay with people or do we have enough time tonight to discuss it. It's up to you guys. I'd be happy to, to and welcome the work of a subcommittee. And Mr. I'll say something else that but Mr. orange on your agenda. I'm fine with the subcommittee I just wanted to say I support the $25 for people who came to the forums and testified or might in the future. I think we've been awarded for people filling out the survey. I mean we may get scores of white people filling out the survey or spend five 10 minutes on it. I don't think we, I would much prefer what is moist and recommended earlier that we have a lottery. You know, you have a bigger prize of $50 or $100 gift certificate or something and, and it's a lottery for people doing the survey. Yeah, I mean, I think we should kind of give a choice to, you know, kind of put it that if folks want to take the $25 they take it, you know, I'm saying what given it that, you know, offering it to them but some folks might not they might want to just keep it, you know, so that we can keep doing the work that we're doing, then we want to give that choice. I think, I think yeah for anyone that that spoke and anyone that speaks in the future because that takes a lot of courage you know kind of go on there. And obviously the surveys yes it takes courage to but you know again you can be anonymous you know for your name and that's a little bit less kind of demanding. So I agree with Mr Vernon Jones in terms of just having some type of lottery or something like that for the surveys. I agree with what everybody just said. I think those are all really great ideas I would support a subcommittee, like finalizing all of this. But I just wanted to put out there that I support the $25 gift cards for anyone who comes to speak at the forums I do think that's a good idea for the lottery for people who do the survey. I would put back out there that Miss Pat at one point have mentioned gift cards to black owned businesses, and I also think that that's a very good idea, and I would be in support of any of those things. Well, this, this is helpful. I'm not not cutting this discussion off certainly but this this is helpful now because I wanted to go back to miss Pat. How about the the subcommittee. I think it would be good to have a couple people or three maybe get together and come up with a statement for us to look at, and we already got several ideas just right here. That seems to resonate with people in effect be put into some statement that could be shared with this moist and share with the group we could take a look at at the next meeting, and, you know, come up with them, you know, what might be our next steps and what we want to put in place. Would you would you be willing to. Yeah, I want to volunteer, and I will need two more people to volunteer. Because I feel very strongly about $25, you got to get the right people because you don't want too many writers on that, you know, they just don't mess you up. No, they won't. Would someone like to join Miss Pat with that charge Miss Owen. All right. Thank you. Sashina. I can't see her. So I don't. Are you there, Miss Bowen woman. You want to join us. I, I'm not sure that I want to join the subcommittee right now. Yeah, it's, I'm just, I'm doing a lot of listening right now. To. Yeah, I'm doing a lot of listening right now. I need to like sit and absorb it. And think about it for a while. I'd like to, I'd like to ask you, Miss Pat to, to work with Miss Owen. Exactly. I think that forward. I think we're good. We're good. You're very good. The two of you working on that would be sure. We'll be fine. Thank you. So we'll get you a report next week. Yes. You can get that to Miss moist and. You know, for our agenda, maybe Monday. I'm assuming that we're going to take a Wednesday meeting next week. We have to go to that. But we'll get to that in a second. Anyway, but you'll do that. So. Going forward. I think we've hit. All our agenda items except for the upcoming events and next meeting date. We'll get to that in a minute. And then we'll get to that in the last two items. Yeah, I'm sorry. I have a question. The letter that DWU sent to us. That has to do with. The consulting team. Should we refer? Maybe we should refer her to Mr. Delaney. The letter that I saw a letter that was sent. I just saw it just, just briefly before the meeting started, but I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Let me see. Let me see what you're going to say. Well, I actually, I saw the email as well. I don't know if that's something everyone wants to talk about right now, but I would prefer if we don't just defer it to Mr. Delaney, because those were things that I also wanted to discuss. And I wanted to, well, or we could defer it to him, but in the presence of the group, because I also was curious about those things. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Okay. Yeah. I miss Rara and then. I guess is that something, because since it came after the, you know, I don't know what's supposed to go in. Should we talk? Can we talk about it a little bit in that whatever they become wasn't anticipated within the 48 hours. So it fits underneath. He'll go around. So it can, we can talk. Underneath the bid conversation, I would think, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering if you want me to pull the questions up. I took them out of the email because I couldn't get it to show up here. Pull it up. Yeah. How many of you have read it? Okay. Oh. Can you guys see it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ms. Walker has your hand. I can't sometimes again. Oh yeah. Ms. Walker. Yeah. I wanted to also bring up that yesterday at our subcommittee meeting, we had a pretty in depth conversation about. Services for interpreting interpreting our meetings and our documents that we're going to be providing to the public. And so I actually thought that the first bullet point that was sent to us. Made a very good point or was actually something that I would want to know because we talked about the lack of availability for interpretation for public services that the town does provide it, but it's available at. The request of the people who need it. So that the people who need the interpretation would have to request those services be available in advance of whatever. Meeting or event is happening. And so I'm wondering about how accessible that is. And then also we talked about not putting the, the responsibility of getting things interpreted on the consulting. Team because that's a lot for them to do within their budget and their time. And so that that would be something that us as a group would want to figure out. And so I thought that this was just like kind of a great question as a follow-up to the discussion that we had yesterday as a sub as a group. As a subcommittee group. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions, comments about this? This pad. I would like to hear from either Mr. Buckman or Mr. Delaney. In terms of the. Number one. The first one, the police budget. And the 80,000 K. I guess I would know what, I don't know what the question is that you're posing. Yeah. Well, I mean, basically the question that DW has raised, you know, I think she's suggesting that the consulting work regarding police research should come from police budget. It's a question if I read it correctly. Instead of getting it out of 80,000 K. Right, but that's, I'm sorry. Yes. Go ahead. No, no, I was just saying, well, Miss Pat was saying it's just like that, you know, with the bid that, you know, the 80,000 that Mr. Bachman that you said that the town has. Disposable disposal to do this, but the stuff that we're asking him to do that's relevant to the police DW is basically saying, why can't the, why can't that come out of the police budget? Since it's dealing with kind of police trends, what else to do around policing blah, blah, blah. Why can it come out of their budget? So we did not budget for this in the police budget. I budgeted the $80,000 as separate standalone item outside of the police budget so that it was not under the control of the police budget. So. So it was explicitly set aside for this kind of work. You know, the police budget doesn't have a sum of money budgeted for this kind of work in it. So. Yeah. Miss Walker and then Miss Freer. I'm just wondering, does the police budget have a section for research? No, not research. No. I'm not that aware of. And then I guess. Just a follow-up in terms of what Miss Walker was saying earlier, what about the whole, I guess I'm still confused about the translation interpretation. I think it's a very different situation because yeah, we don't want it to be on any one to kind of get that. It needs to be us providing interpretation when, you know, we go out and solicit information to folks, you know, especially by black folk, folks, English is a second language situation. And then also if we need to interpret, you know, the survey or need to interpret other documents that we're sharing, you know, we might want to interpret the report, you know, so that folks understand how to read the report. So I think that's a very different situation. I think it's a very different situation. I think it's a very different situation. I think there's a lot of changes, especially if we look at, you know, Spanish Mandarin, you know, which are the major languages in the town, you might need to do that. So that people have access to that information. So how is that going to work? I guess, because I don't think we should put it on the consultants. I thought. I thought. Hang on. Miss Pat. Miss Owens and then. Mr. Bowman has her hand up too. I can't. Sorry. I can't see her. That's why I keep missing her. Yeah. So let me, Miss Freer. Miss Bowman. No, I'm already done. I really. Miss Bowman was, was next because her hair. Oh wow. Yeah. Miss Bowman. Bowman. Hi. So I kind of, okay. My question had to do with does. You know, when is the next time that the police budget is going to be. Assessed? Um, I guess that's a question for Mr. Bowman. And then. Um, Oh my gosh, I forgot. I forgot my other question. Sorry. Sorry for my other question. If it comes back to me, I'll ask, but yeah, just for the, for the first part, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. When does the police budget get reassessed? When does the police budget get reassessed? Is that yearly or is that, you know. Quarterly or whatever. Um, because I think, I think, I really do kind of agree that the police should have. A. A point in a place in their budget for research. Um, And then, oh, I remember the other one. And then the other thing was that about the interpretation. Um, Bowman said that, um, The interpretation was available, but we needed to, that it needs to be asked for, but can we, um, Can we request that as part of. Like, can we kind of, how do I say this? Can we like. Just have like request that as part of. Um, Um, Um, Um, I don't know if that makes sense. So let me, let me give Mr. Bach, much as they answer that. And then this Pat, you had her hand up. So I, I'd like to go to you up right after that. So again, the police budget is some. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. So again, the police budget is submitted on May 1st of every year. So I will be submitting a new budget for the police on May 1st for FY 22, which is the, the fiscal year beginning, July one, uh, interpretation services as a service that we purchase. And so typically when we have a project, if we want that service included in the project, we would say we want this service included. And then the consultant can build that into their, their pricing structure. Um, you know, we, it's important as we start to go down this road to be specific about what's, what kind of interpretation and what kind of translation we're looking for. If it's interpretation of meetings, what languages do we want to have represented there? Because each person who is there, who's usually multiple people. Um, if it's, um, Spanish or, um, ASL or whatever it is, we have to purchase those services. So our, our, our, our path typically is to say consultant, you provide these services and you procure them. So we know what the all in prices for the services that you're providing. Um, and so, and then, if we go into translation, which means we're taking the document and translating it, that's a different service that we would purchase as well. So typically instead of doing a different procurement for those things, it's better to have the consultant responsible for, for doing that all at once. So there's no finger pointing or, you know, going around. Ms. Pat. I was just going to ask Mr. Bachman, if it's possible to use some of the funds. Um, I know that they, you know, the town has freeze, um, the position of two police officers. Can we use some of those funds for the, for what, um, do you have questions for? So what we have reserved those funds for is to determine what this committee is coming up with. Um, you know, initially it was, we were, we're going to have a proposal by January 31, which obviously was, was too ambitious. And then if there were going to be in, and I think the idea on that was that we didn't want to wait till July 1 to make the change. If there was going to be a different thing, we would have money available to make the actual change for that. So, but I, you know, I think the, um, The services that we need for this short period of time that they have to work in $80,000 should certainly meet the needs for all the things that the council, that the working group is looking for. Ms. Walker. Um, I'm sorry. So also I just wanted to say that I, my understanding was that we were doing an ISB and so that we wouldn't be using the full 80,000 for any. For any contract that we're awarding to any consulting team. So their full budget will not be the full 80 K. Um, and I think that the town. Should be able to provide interpretation services because that should be something that should be available through the town in general anyways. Um, and that we shouldn't have to take that out of that budget. Like you were saying that's. We have to pay for that. And I think these events that we will be having deserve. Every type of interpretation that we can obtain, like any language that we can obtain of any residents of Amherst, we should get as many as possible because I think that that's the barrier to access that we're trying to address here. And those are the, that's the audience that we're reaching out to. And I think that we should be able to do that. And I think that we should be able to do that. And I think that we should be able to support the understanding how we can ask people to request those things. If they can't even understand what's happening. So in following up with that, Mr. Bachman, um, early on in our work. Um, You had stated that. Uh, the. This working group has resources that is disposal to help us do our work. And, um, there is a decision that we should seek a piece of that. Of the appropriate interpretation services be under that. Under that umbrella. Let's say. If in fact we said in order for us to reach out to the community, we're going to need a translation. Services for example, for that, that, that, that, whatever it is going forward. Translations. Or interpretation for whatever things we see coming up. putting out would that fall under that category and not have anything to do at all with the, you know, with the potential consultant? If it's work that the consultant is doing, if the consultant is organizing an outreach meeting, I would expect the consultant to provide all the services that we've articulated that we want. So we want that to be a successful outreach meeting. If there are things that the working group itself is doing, if you're doing, and you say we would like additional services, that can come out of that $80,000. You know, we are talking about some stipends coming out of that, or so there's things already being targeted for that $80,000 that we have. We don't have a separate budget. I mean, Ms. Boyston works on this somewhat in terms of trying to get different people to help with interpretation. And we don't, you know, we don't we don't do a great job at that as a town. And we don't set aside a sum of money to do that for all of our meetings, quite honestly. And we have done it for some. And it gets, you know, so, but it, you know, we don't do it for all of our meetings for sure. Ms. Pat. So if we're trying to make some of our community an inclusive welcoming community, I mean, services like that, I will think that perhaps with this project that we're doing, we can think about, and I'm coming from business perspective, could we, you know, whatever services that the town purchase, can we have them as retainer for the period of the time that the consultants will be doing some work? Meaning, if we need them, yes, we don't set aside some money to pay them so that we have them on hand. If we need them, I think we should think about retainer fee to this translation services. And I don't mean like, you know, big firm or something like that, even in, you know, that are native, there's a lot of native speaking folks in our town that, you know, could be approached and said, you know, we're going to give you this amount of retainer so that, you know, if we do need you to translate something for us, you know, can we count on you? That's where I'm coming from. And that person, it doesn't have to be working with our group alone. It could be with the council, with other committees we have in town. I mean, if we're really, it takes a lot. If we're going to be inclusive community, there's a lot involved. And if we're going to make my folk committee feel that way, a welcoming town, it takes a lot of work and money. And, you know, we should really think about the voting resources to do this right. That's what I'm coming from. Ms. Walker, I'm sorry. I also really agree with what Ms. Pat was just saying. And then I just wanted to add if, like, I do want to still look into how we can make this possible and how we can make translation services available at as many events and with as many documents as possible. But I'm also wondering if this can be something that we add into our recommendations because I think this is something that absolutely needs to be in the town budget regularly. And I don't know how we could work, but it adds to how safe our community is and can be if we can communicate with the people that live here. I already did. It's in one of my recommendations. Yeah. That's a good point. In fact, just going back in years here, maybe this register with Mr. Vernon Jones as well in our previous lives, trying to get translation and interpretation services in the schools was very difficult because it wasn't just trying to find someone who spoke the language. It was language. It was culture. It was very nuanced. So you had to get someone with good writing skills. You had to get someone with good speaking skills who, you know, would fit all the bills for the community you're trying to serve. And so then that also makes it a little not as doable, but makes it a little more difficult to find who is that person who can do that for us or for the town. So I like your notion of your idea, Ms. Walker, about putting this in some way in a recommendation because especially as the police are working with a very, you know, multi-ethnic, multicultural community in their multilingual, for sure, that this would be something that would have some benefit over time as well as now. So is this something that we want to communicate to Mr. Delaney? His name came up earlier. Ms. Pat? The only reason why I'm, you know, when I first read the email, immediately from business perspective, I knew right away, this is a budgetary issue, you know, that we defy it to the staff, meaning I got Mr. Delaney of the town manager. But I think in looking back, I think it's good that we have some conversation around this, but I didn't think we will resolve it because it's budget issue. It is what it is. Mr. Vernon Jones. I do think it's important that someone respond to this letter. It does seem to me like the police budget question is really a town manager question. Yes. With regard to translation and interpretation, an earlier draft of our quest for bids, add the consultants providing translation and interpretation for every meeting. And we decided that we are in our subcommittee that we were not prepared to specify which languages or which meetings. So the current bid invitation for bid leaves the responsibility with the consultant only for written materials, advertising meetings, be translated into Spanish. And again, it's not a portion of their potential earnings, presumably they budget for that. With regard to the last thing, there was some language originally in an earlier version of the bid request that mentioned in-person meetings, but I believe all that language has been removed by Zoom now. Well, and, you know, we had this discussion about responding to information and inquiries and comments coming from the community. And, you know, I did say I would take on that responsibility. I'd be happy to respond to DW on this and get a response back. I welcome drafting something and running it by all of you, if you'd like to see if it's in keeping with what we need to say. But one, acknowledging that we've received it, one that we've been talking about it, certainly, and what we might be thinking about in terms of how to, you know, properly answer the questions in the context of our work. So I'd be happy to do that and share it outright. Yes, Mr. Vernon Jones. Thank you for being willing to do that, Paul. I think that's great. I would run the response by Mr. Delaney, though, because it does refer to the bid and we want to make sure we're not. Exactly. DW may be a potential bidder, so we want to make sure we're not in violation of anything. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. OK, I will do that. So you get some email from me, Miss Moisten. Any other points, comments on that matter? Thank you, Miss Pat, for bringing that up. And most likely, we'll be coming back to that at some point, I'm sure. So anyway, let's see. Where do we go here? Upcoming events, Miss Moisten. Toshina has her hand raised. Thank you, Miss Bowman. Hi, I'm sorry, I got to go put my son to bed. So I'm going to have to log off. But I just wanted to thank everybody for their input today. And yeah. Being conduct. Thank you. Thanks, Toshina. Glad you could be with us. Thank you. Yeah. Take care. Bye bye. Bye bye. Have a good night. Stay safe. Good night. Working mom. I do think we need to wrap up. Yeah, we are. I was waiting for Miss Moisten now to tell me what her event. Oh, yep. So now I forgot. February 9th is the first Lunar New Year celebration with the town. So I am very excited that we are celebrating the Lunar New Year. And we have a storyteller coming to tell us the story of the Lunar New Year and how it became. So you can find all of that in the news and announcements on the website. All right. Thank you. What time is it now? What time? On the 9th at 5 30. Thank you. You're very much. Our next meeting day next Wednesday, 5 30 comes up. Yeah. The next meeting day, Wednesday, 5 30. Please get your agenda items into Miss Moisten. If you have any. I would say I would suggest what Monday, noon is good. Yes. And I just assuming that we'd want to put this email back on the agenda. Yes, I would love to have the agenda actually I was going to put that on myself, but yes, let's do that. And any other if you have some agenda items, let's get them to her so I can take some liberty again to put some times to these, unless you tell me how much time you think you need to talk about it. And I'll try to work with it. But if I have it ahead of time, I can do that. Thank you. Any other topics? OK. Hearing none, I welcome a motion to adjourn. So move. Mr. Vernon Jones, thank you. Second day. I second say, hey, say goodbye. Thank you. Bye, everybody. I think at what time is this 735? That's pretty good. That's a record. That's a record. Miss Walker, your children are going to be quite happy tonight. Oh, yeah, can you hear him? Anyway, thank you all for working with that schedule to appreciate it. Thank you all for your work. Everybody. Good night.