 What's up everybody? Welcome back. This is a great episode. How do you train for strength versus how do you train for size? You're gonna like this one, but first here's the free giveaway maps aesthetic One of you is gonna win free access to maps aesthetic, but you got to do this Leave a comment in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode Subscribe to this channel turn on your notifications do all those things if we pick your comment will notify you You'll get free access to maps aesthetic. Also, we're running a big sale right now on to Workout programs the first one that's on sale is maps performance Train like an athlete move like an athlete and look like an athlete the second program that's on sales maps aesthetic This is a bodybuilder inspired program sculpt shape and build your body both of them are 50% off Here's what you got to do if you want to sign up for maps performance go to maps green comm for maps aesthetic Go to maps black comm and then the code for 50% off for either or both programs is Feb 50 so do that code and you'll get 50% off. All right. Here comes a show so I have a Cool conversation that I I'd like to have with you guys that I think would be fun And I'm real curious to hear so I really I really want to hear how you Would separate these like I got a question not that long ago About training for strength versus training for hypertrophy. Oh, yeah And I know we kind of talk about obviously the the carryover and the benefits and hypertrophy being size right right so almost almost like okay somebody who like Identifies more is kind of like the the bodybuilder look. I want to don't want to sculpt my body You know hypertrophy versus somebody who I want to be strong. I care more about that how How is the training similar and how is it? Different and what does that look like depending on which person we're talking to yeah Well, also too. I mean, I think this is like a common misconception people have like they'll always look to the biggest person is like They're probably the strongest person in the room and they just and I used to think that too like for a long time till actually really Understood weight training and how to how different it is in terms of like the training and what that produces And so that was something that was a bit enlightening for me. Yeah, I mean it is true They're very close to connected right because the truth is bigger muscle fibers Which is what hypertrophy is for the most part those other things that contribute to hypertrophy like intracellular fluid and sarcoplasm which is like You know it could be the capillaries in the in the fluid and the fuel and that stuff that makes your muscles bigger But ultimately bigger muscle fibers Contract harder than smaller muscle fibers So and what's tough about comparing two different individuals is there's other factors that can contribute to strike But if we look at the one person That same person if they have bigger muscles Those bigger muscles will contract harder. Now. Does that mean that they're going to be able to lift more weight? Not necessarily. So this is where it gets kind of weird, right? Because a big part of strength is also skill So you could have quads and hamstrings and glutes that contract Harder than someone else's but that other person might be able to squat more than you because they're Well versed in the squat because of the skill of the of the squat itself and strength athletes will tell you this They'll tell you that you know that your your technique and form and how you move the weight makes a big difference And and how much you can lift and this is something you learn through through practice What do you think that like if you were to graph that what that curve looks like because obviously when you're brand new to lifting Both kind of come on pretty fast Yeah, and do they do you think as you get more and more advanced that begins to kind of kind of split Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. I'd say strength happens first faster, right? Because you get that CNS adaptation You you're able to fire the muscles a little better then what follows those strength gains tends to be muscle And then they kind of stay pretty closely connected We're talking about the average person right now not not necessarily someone specifically for strength They're just hypertrophy. They're very closely connected and then I'd say Then you get that split where you can focus mostly on strength or you could focus mostly on hypertrophy And you'll get more of which one you tend to focus on But I it is clear that they're very closely connected Meaning you can't it's a good idea to focus on both and you can't Completely separate them because they're so closely connected that if you improve one of them Even if your goal isn't to improve the other one, you're still gonna get some of the other carry over from both directions tons of carryover Well, and I want to make it clear to that because we're gonna give kind of I think General advice right if we were speaking to the strength person versus the hypertrophy person But in my experience one of the most common ways to help either one of those people is to Introduce them to training more like the opposite one. Yeah, that makes sense, right? Like if you identify as a you know strength competitor or power lifter type or you love to live for strength One of the best things a lot of times that person can do to get stronger is to train more for hypertrophy And the same is true for the person that is seeking the next level of hypertrophy aesthetics Is to have women's last time you train for strength or performance and just because I think the most common thing is you neglect one The other although I know we're gonna go into some more like hey if you want strength This is the ways more often than not you should train versus. Yeah, totally And then we can't we need to this conversation needs to include the central nervous system because yeah, it's what controls The muscles. It's what tells the muscles to contract. It's also Probably more importantly what tells the how tells the muscles how to work together, right? Because Using the example of the squat you have a lot of muscles that are involved in moving the weight like primarily the Quadriceps and the glutes and the hamstrings. You have a lot of stabilizing muscles that have to stay tight and stable Pretty much the entire body needs to work together To lift the weight and how those muscles work together Also determines, you know, how much weight you can lose excuse me. How much weight you can you can lift So the CNS plays a huge role and the CNS itself Can fire harder or less hard depending on how well you train how often you train And the state of your for lack of a term excitement So like in other words like you've all heard the the story of the the mom that lift the car The burning car off their kid, right and people like how did she how was she able to do that, right? Under that extreme duress the central nervous system kind of back bypassed its own road Yeah, it overloaded you have limiters You have natural limiters in place so you don't get hurt and rip your muscle off the bone or cause like serious damage And so there's actually a way for you to train to kind of squeeze out even more potential By you know telling the body that this is secure. This is safe. This is something that you know is not going to happen That's the feedback you're getting back from your joints Yes So now your central nervous system is allowed to kind of juice it up Here's an example that everybody can relate to right imagine How strong you are if you're really angry Versus if you're laughing. Have you ever tried to lift something while you're silly No, I haven't make somebody laugh when they're bench pressing. It's it's a good time You it like turns everything off, right? That's the CNS the CNS is like we're not gonna fire your laugh or whatever Anger or sometimes fear you get a lot more juice out of your body Can you train your body to fire harder? Absolutely Studies on like top Olympic lifters show that they probably can get like something like 90 something percent out of their Out of their total potential which by the way I've seen the studies around that the the average person or lifter is like half of that. Yeah, yeah Yeah, you could take that person Difference huge same amount of muscle get the CNS the fire harder. Boom. They're lifting way more way or Take the average person give them caffeine or a stimulant which makes a CNS a little bit more excited And then you see a you know five or ten percent increase in strength So that plays a big role and that's important to understand because Strength training is also maximizing the CNS Muscle building muscle training. It's also a component of maximizing the CNS because a well Firing CNS is gonna contribute to more muscle growth and activate more muscle fire. I just wanted to bring up to You know based on everybody's individual goals There's the strength to weight ratio that you can sort of get affected by this, right? So if there is a way to get stronger without, you know, necessarily gaining a lot of size and you see this with You know people that are super connected or Even like say like a rock climber or somebody that's like really yes super connected is strong But like they're not their body is is adapting towards something that's gonna be advantageous for their specific skill So it's interesting that there's those differences But if you look at them like they're super strong, but you wouldn't know that based on their physique No, that's a good point because let's say you're playing football Where you're tackling each other. There's no weight classes and mass also plays a role in how hard you can hit Yep, you it's probably it's probably a good idea to gain 15 pounds of Mostly lean body mass right for the most part unless the weight gets so high that your agility is off and lots of But let's say you're in a weight class. You're a wrestler. You're a middleweight or whatever It's 150 pound limit and you want to get as strong as you can at 150 pounds What you don't want to do is gain 10 pounds of muscle on top of it because now you're competing with guys Who could be as heavy as 170 pounds? So now your strength isn't as effective So and that's those are the cases where it's like people are like I just want to get stronger And I've had that I've had clients like that who are like I can't gain any weight. I'm a motocross racer I'm a rock climber. I'm a wrestler or a boxer. I have to stay in my weight class, but I want to get stronger So how do I do that without building muscle? So let's go over some general principles or rules that you would say speaking to these these two individuals totally So again understanding that strength is a skill It makes sense that you would practice fewer exercises for more sets, right? So if I'm trying to get as strong as possible in particular lifts and today's leg day and let's say my My number one exercise to get stronger at is the squat It makes more sense to do eight sets of squats than it does to do, you know Three different exercises, you know for a couple sets each or whatever now for muscle size You see more of a benefit and of course in the extremes that you could get a little wonky and it doesn't necessarily it's not as Necessarily as effective, but it makes more sense to hit the lower body with different angles You're still gonna squat, but you're also gonna do Sissy squats or lunges and stiff-legged deadlifts and different movements Because those different movements hit the muscle differently and develop more muscle size But not as much strength in that specific lift So this might see power lifters spend an hour work out in the squat rack Whereas a bodybuilder does an hour leg work out and they're throughout they're walking throughout the whole gym Well, again, this kind of speaks to the central nervous system in terms of learning You know a movement pattern being most effective at that specific skill And so if you treat it more as a skill, you know Your body's going to receive that information is gonna you know react to it to get better and more efficient at that And so to add more sets just makes sense you get more practice you get stronger in that direction And then you know the opposite side of that We're challenging the muscle and trying to hit areas. Maybe we're not addressing within the muscle Now what someone might be thinking because we talk about the importance of you're changing your exercise selection or your routine Because of the the benefits you get from seeking something that's novel now What would you say to that because this is that's kind of goes against what we're saying for this person, right? This person wants strength, but for them we're saying hey Let's stick to these four or five movements consistently for an extended period of time say a couple months even instead of Rotating out of them like we might do for somebody who is wanting to chase hypertrophy. Why is that? How would you explain that? No, that's a good question. It's it's still true. It's just not as true in other words You can go to extreme right you can only squat in which case you'll get good at the squat And then you'll stop getting good at the squat You might actually get worse at the squat because you develop imbalances you start to develop aches and pains so even power lifters do what they would call accessory work where they're doing other exercises just to support the competitive lift of the squat With bodybuilding or hypertrophy training varieties more important But you could also go too far in that direction, right? You could go so far in the direction of variety That you never give your body the ability to get good at specific exercises So you're never really able to maximize them because you know if you choose a new exercise or you do an exercise Let's say you do a specific exercise once a month because you rotate everything so much that only once a month I'm doing a squat. I never really get good enough at the squat to maximize its effect and push You know really good weight, right? So you can go to extreme neither direction. So really it's again It's broken down like this. It's like a strength routine would be fewer exercises for more set So let's say I'm doing 10 sets for chest For a strength X, you know workout. It may be two exercises five sets each For a bodybuilder type routine It may be three exercises for three sets each and then maybe an extra set of something else So more variety, but the volume is Relative and a lot of that is because they care less about getting good at a movement as a bodybuilder I never cared about what my bench or my squat or any of these exercise are I don't give a shit about that because it's not about being strong I'm chasing a look and so I want to I want to follow an exercise long enough to reap the max benefits of what it was Of muscle it's going to build on my body Then I want to move to something else so I can now reap the benefits from that I don't care if I lose some of the benefits of getting stronger at that lift because I'm in pursuit of a look more And so it's more advantageous for me to seek novelty if I'm more focused on hypertrophy versus strength I want more of that CNS adaptation I want to get good at the lift because that's going to make me better and stronger at moving that way Totally completely and the CNS learns how to fire more effectively in that specific way The muscles learn how to stabilize and fire as a result better You learn the positioning better, you learn the positioning of the bar better Angles, leverage, all kinds of stuff The technique, the leverage, you know all that stuff Because remember the CNS it can fire generally but it also is very specific right So an Olympic lifter might not be as good at a deadlift as a power lifter But it's going to crush the power lifter at like a clean because And both of them can really fire the CNS right So it can be much more specific So when it comes to strength it's like you want to practice fewer things more often to get that And then for muscle it's a little bit in the reverse right Now what about rep range? We talk about the benefits of all the different rep ranges And we say this a lot on the show that anything between 1 and 25 has tremendous benefits for all pursuits But again if we were talking to a specific strength you know person and a specific hypertrophy person How would you advise each one differently? Yeah so all the rep ranges are good so you should probably train all of them But you're going to spend more time in a particular rep range for strength And more time in a particular rep range for hypertrophy When we say strength we're talking about kind of that bottom and that bottom range grinding strength Because you could also have strength endurance right Which is higher reps and your ability to continue to go with short rest periods I'm talking about like maximal low that's the kind of strength that we're talking about In that particular case you're going to train in the low rep ranges much more often You know as low as 1 but probably more often around 4, 5 and 6 In that range and your goal isn't to fatigue the muscles a ton Your goal is to somewhat fatigue the muscles Generate as much force as possible Generate as much force as possible and get really good at the lift And get really good at generating force within that specific lift I also think that you would tend to flirt with the ends of the spectrum more often depending on which one you are Meaning if I'm a strength athlete I'm going to find myself pulling singles and doubles and triples Rarely frequently I want to be good at being able to do that And so I'm going to practice that quite a bit in my routine Where maybe if I was a bodybuilder I would do that to interrupt my training occasionally but not very often And then the opposite is true for the strength athlete will every once in a while interrupt their routine with maybe 20 reps But not very often because it's not getting as much of a benefit And then the other end of the spectrum with the hypertrophy person Rarely ever going to do singles or doubles maybe every once in a while to interrupt it They're going to lean more towards flirting with the 20-25 rep range more often than the strength athlete Yeah the higher rep ranges that 8 to 15 or so even as high as 25 You get more fatigue, you get more damage, you get a better pump You get more muscle hypertrophy I remember when we interviewed Stan Efferding a while ago And he was Mr. 20 squats guy Yeah he was a powerlifter right and he was one of the strongest professional bodybuilders of all time And he was mainly a powerlifter for a long time Then he hired a bodybuilding coach to help him get his pro card and he wanted to put on more size One of the main things he did was stop the 3, 4, 5 rep sets of squats And do like 20 reps of squats and lots of variety He started doing leg press and leg extensions and lunges Whereas when he was powerlifting it was like mostly squats And what he saw was his strength didn't really go up Because obviously not training for strength But his size went up quite a bit His legs grew, everything grew quite a bit from training that way And that was a great example because that was an extreme example of what you could see When you train those extremes Now I want to reiterate what you're saying Does that mean that training 1, 2, and 3 reps isn't going to build muscle? No, not at all Does it also mean that training into 20 rep range isn't going to help you build maximal strength? No, not at all They all contribute to it It's just you're going to spend more time on one end with one pursuit and on the other end with the other pursuit You have a very specific adaptation you're trying to acquire So you're going to lean towards the one The majority of your time needs to stay there That's going to give you the biggest bang for your buck Yes, they all give you some bang for your buck But the biggest bang for your buck is going to come staying towards that rep range Most of the time and then intermittently interrupting it with the other end of the spectrum And then going back to that The same is true on both sides Some of the best, some really good power lifters that I've talked to They say, oh yeah, I'll run a cycle of more bodybuilder style training And then I notice when I go back to my power lifting training I've got a little bit more muscle and I feel more stable And I can generate more force when I get into it And then you'll talk to bodybuilders And they'll say something similar in the opposite direction Oh yeah, I'll do a month of 5x5 Or I'm focusing on the basic lifts, trying to get real strong And I'll notice I get more of a granite hard look And then when I go back to my bodybuilding training They generate more force and power I think not enough of them do it though They used to You have people like Seabum and you have like, he's big on it You have Ben Pollock who obviously is There's not a lot, at least in men's physique I should say Maybe it's more popular in bodybuilding You see some of these guys do that But I was actually really blown away by how many men's physique athletes Didn't take advantage of this They all thought, you know, the squatting and deadlifting heavyweight Overhead pressing, like heavyweight I'm not a power lifter, I'm a strength athlete Why would I do that? I think we also need to touch on the risk factor of lifting heavy Especially when you start to get real big That's probably one of the main reasons, right? You're a 250 pound bodybuilder And when you start to train heavy You're lifting weights now that if they get away from you You can hurt yourself And, you know, these guys and girls are They're so not interested and don't care about the weight That they're lifting That I think that they look at the risk It's not really worth it But the guys and girls that do it right are smart You brought up Seabum I mean, when you see him doing If you see the evolution of his physique It's like he started squatting and deadlifting heavy And incorporating that into his routine And he just started building more muscle Which just speaks to what we're saying Which is you don't want to separate the two in fact First off, you can't But you don't want to You want to kind of train a little bit of both All right, here's another one Rest periods You know, for strength It's quite clear that first off If you're training, if you want to build strength You should train strong So what does that mean? Long rest periods Your goal isn't to fatigue the shit out of yourself And train your stamina or your endurance Your goal is to do your set Like if you ever watch power lifters I said they'll spend an hour in the squat rack Watch them between sets It's like five minutes in between sets And they're hanging out and talking And then they'll get under the bar And do three, four reps And then sit down and hang out for a while Bodybuilders don't do that Bodybuilders are moving all the time If you're trying to maximize force output You really need, like fatigue is your worst enemy You need to be super focused And you need everything to be organized And to produce all at once And so, yeah, it just You need that rest period to really recoup In order to perform at a high level So that way your body actually Then progresses forward And it learns how to do that You know, most effectively I did say bodybuilders are moving all the time Which is true They typically will rest less Than strength athletes However, they can also benefit from And intermittently rest It's exactly the same type of recommendation As the last point It's like you should spend most of your time In what you're saying But going on the other end of the spectrum Intermittently and to interrupt You training this way is a great idea You just are going to spend most of your time Like if I'm the strength athlete Most of my time is longer rest periods But there's tremendous benefits For me doing a short mezzo cycle Of where I'm actually running that The short rest periods And then going back to that And then the same is true for the Hypertrophy client That's always training to look a certain way Every once in a while Hey, let's run like a strength protocol And give you all kinds of rest Before we go back to supersetting And short rest periods Yeah, I was influenced early on As a kid by power lifters And so I was a long rest period Kind of person And then I was convinced To try shorter rest periods And supersets and focus on the pump And it was the first time in my life I saw my strength go down But my muscle size go up It was a very weird experience Yeah, I had the same experience It was very strange So I'm like, oh my God I'm lifting less but I'm building more Now I'm lifting less Because I'm resting 30 seconds You know, or a minute between sets Or supersetting But I saw like muscle gains And then when I went back To my longer rest periods Man, I was so strong So, you know, basically I mean, what you're saying Adam is 100% gold Like that's true You know though It's such a challenge for people To do this though Because what happens is At one point in your lifting career You experience something Like what you're saying right now Somebody introduces you to a way of training And you see like this huge change From that new stimulus Or new way of resting Or new way of lifting And then all of a sudden You become married to that Or you identify so strongly With a type of lifter You know, like, oh I'm definitely more the athletic type So I'm always doing hit training And plyometrics You know Or I totally identify with the strength guys So I'm always lifting heavy And resting long periods of time So that's the dangerous part about You know, teaching people these like General principles about this type of an avatar Is that somebody Here's the advice They go do it Oh my god, they see great results Now they're married to that one way And it's important to know that Yeah, you should stay in that direction Most of the time But it's so good for you to interrupt that Intermittently through your routine I would say one of the best attributes Of somebody who's got long term success Specifically with resistance training Is an open mind I would have to say that, right? Because had for me at least Had I not had an open mind I would have never tried kettlebells Why? Dumbbells and barbells And I would have totally missed out, right? I would have never tried isometric holds Or overhead carries I would have never tried supersets Or full body workouts Instead of splits And vice versa And every time I tried something I saw the benefit And what happens is It's like a piece of the puzzle And depending on your goal Some of the pieces of the puzzle are big And some of them are small, right? If you're a strength athlete What a big piece of the puzzle is Fewer movements, you know More sets per movement, right? And a smaller piece is maybe more variety And then if your bodybuilder focus It's a little different But all of them are pieces to the puzzle And you're missing something If you don't have that open mind It's funny because the three of us are You know, like Justin's like One end of the spectrum You're on the other end of the spectrum And I'm kind of in the middle In terms of, you know, how we always train Although now all of us Really understand the value of everything Yeah, we've all kind of taken from each other And applied it And it's, yeah Totally translates So it's like, like you said You gotta have an open mind And it's gonna fulfill a lot of Holes in your training And you're gonna notice the difference Although we still all kind of Gravitate some of the things That were favorite Of course, but I know Lean on our strength But I incorporate other stuff Right, right And I think that's the message To get across to people Is like, listen It's because there's always that other argument of like Well, if you don't love doing it You know, that's more important, right? Like it's important to love what you do And you love training a certain way But it's like it doesn't mean that There's not tremendous value for you Just to interrupt that every once in a while So you continue to reap the great benefits Of training that way So otherwise It allows you to do what you love more Right Yeah, and more effectively Right All right, so this next one In my opinion is one of the most Important aspects of strength Versus muscle building And that's this When you're trying to build strength I am not focused on the target muscles I don't care what muscles I'm working When I'm deadlifting or pressing Or rowing or squatting All I care about is moving the weight Efficiently and effectively And in a safe way When I'm trying to build muscle Good mechanics Opposite I am trying to feel the muscle Like if I'm doing a barbell row for strength It's about perfect form and movement How do I get this movement efficient And get the barbell moving When I'm trying to work my back With a barbell row And trying to build it I'm like Can I get my back to contract more Can I squeeze Can I feel it more Totally And this is the I would say this is the biggest difference Because the exercises Could be exactly the same But focusing on the movement The intent changes everything Totally different Totally different I wish that I had a video of When Justin and I First started working out together Over a decade ago When we first met Because it would be the perfect Example of the two differences On how they train Polar opposites Everything from the Setting up for the movement To how we move the bar To the tempo of the bar How quickly I would bench Versus your slow control To a tee I train so much more Like a bodybuilder Hypertrophy guy Justin absolutely trained More athletic and strength And you could just tell That it had been Something that we had developed For so many years That every bit of our habits To get even ready for it And how we move It's so hardwired That's hilarious So funny Do you remember when we went To Ben Pacolski and Jim? He had corsets He took us through So uncomfortable Oh, it's so great He took us through a bodybuilding Workout And Adam and I Were kind of More used to that Feeling the muscle And the whatever And Justin's a movement guy 100% And I remember Pacolski kept correcting you No, no, no, do this Slow down He's getting frustrated I don't know what you're Trying to do here I'm not going to do My own thing now Justin's like I'm moving the bar Like what do you want me to do? What else do you want me to do? What else? It's totally different But I mean it's Look, if you want to Develop your glutes When you squat You squeeze and feel the glutes You want to develop your quads When you squat While you focus on the quads When it's strength It's like Whatever works better To get the bar up So long as I'm safe And the important part Of that story Is that they both Have tremendous value Totally They both have a ton Of value Justin's ability Still to this day If I were to compare him To his ability With any exercise that we do To generate the most amount Of force on command Right away from his body He's so much better at it Than I am It doesn't matter How much I try and prime And think about it And practice that way I just haven't trained enough That way that he is getting He has the ability to get Way more maximal force Out of that I would say What I'm great at Is being able to On command And activate a muscle Squeeze Squeeze Exactly that As much as I possibly can No matter how weird Of a position Or a movement I could be doing I've learned to do that Really, really well Totally Alright, so this next one's About nutrition Like how would you eat For size and for strength You eat in a surplus More calories This is the only one That they're both Exactly the same Totally the same Now here's what's weird Here's what's really weird You can I would say Depending on the person It's probably easier To get stronger In maintenance Or a deficit Versus building muscle At maintenance Or a deficit Both hard But I could get somebody Stronger In a deficit If I get them better At squatting Or better at deadlifting Oh that's a hundred percent To build muscle And a deficit Is like That's like Turning, you know Like lead into gold It's like alchemy It's magic And it's very, very Challenging And it's extremely rare And it's most If it is going to happen It's most Commonly going to happen Brand new And so in spite of They're just Those results are happening Regardless, right It's not very common That you see somebody Who's in a caloric deficit That is going to build Any muscle Now here's the big difference And this is what's interesting Strength You can get stronger At lifts Sometimes by Gaining some body fat too There's leverage improvements The extra fat Cushions the joints Makes things feel Less painful This is why Power lifters And strength athletes Aren't necessarily as Ripped or lean As body builders And when it comes to Hypertrophy and muscle Building You know, I know there's people Out there like I just want to build muscle At all costs But most people Want to build more muscle They could see more muscle So they're less concerned About just overall size And more concern With muscle and definition Of the muscle So the surplus I would say Might be a little different For example If I was in a competition Just to lift As much as possible My surplus Would be way higher Yeah, because If it was to build A little bit of body fat Exactly Yeah, they're not deciphering Whether or not you're Consisting of mainly body fat Versus muscle Now that being said You can still overdo that too You could still Over consume so much To where you're getting Adverse effects Which I think And I think that In the power lifting community It's been accepted For a really long time Especially in the Upper weight limits Where there's no weight class Yeah, just to go all out And it's like Sometimes you see Some of these guys And you're like He probably would benefit From leaning out a little bit You know And he's got to be Over consuming like crazy And it's not exactly A one to one You gain more body fat You're also going to Get a little bit stronger It doesn't always continue To scale And I've done that Where I've gone so hard On the strength size Where I'm like That's it I just want to get as strong As possible I don't care And I'll gain You know 30 pounds of body weight Right And my squat will go up You know 15 pounds And then I'm like And I can only squat 15 pounds more Right Technically as a human Walking around And moving around You're technically stronger Lifting less weight At a lower weight Yeah, like for my body You know what I mean Like my strength Weight ratio Isn't very good That's what I meant By it's not a direct One to one ratio You have to keep that In consideration Even if your goal Is to be stronger And you are now Moving more weight But if you put 30 pounds of weight On Just to move Five more pounds away You're technically With the 30 pounds With the bar But yeah But you're weaker Overall Not so great Pay attention to that So ultimately What's the lesson here Well, unless you're An athlete Training in a specific sport You're better off Kind of messing with both Training with both I mean most people I'd say Watching this Show Are interested in Kind of like I want to do this forever I want to build muscle I want to be strong I want to have longevity I want to feel good Like how do I keep The progress Continuing as long As possible Of course at some point You'll hit a limit Because otherwise You know I've been working out For 25 years I'd be bench pressing 6,000 pounds by now How can I keep Things moving forward As long as possible And reach those limits In a safe and healthy way Well, you do both You go through cycles Of both You mix them in This way Like maps in a ball Is literally The first phase Is pure strength The last phase Is straight bodybuilding And the middle phase Is one of our original programs And you'll see All of our programs Kind of have components Of this because You know They contribute to each other They all work together Now, I'm curious To how you guys Excuse me Would do this As far as like Let's say we have the strength And let's use our programs Okay So if I'm going to Use our programs To recommend for you And then we'll say A year time So we have a year time Someone who wants To focus on strength Someone who wants To focus on hypertrophy What is the programs That you would recommend To them For each individual Over the course of A year So figure now So the audience Who doesn't know If you don't have any Of our programs They're three months long So basically We're going to recommend Four programs Let's say What does it look like For somebody who is In more of a pursuit For hypertrophy Somebody who is More in pursuit Of strength What would you guys do Would you recommend Something like this Let's say strength athlete Is three cycles In a row of strong Maps aesthetic In there Or would you go You know One or two rounds Of power lift Excuse me I didn't mean strong I'm at power lift Power lift With interrupt that With either anabolic Or aesthetic And then go back to power lift Like what would it look like Yeah, I would be strength Athlete I'd be like I'd go anabolic Performance I think performance Will be in both Because It just addresses Yeah, the joints And again To secure that And feel stable So that way You're adding load And you can keep Generating force Yeah, so anabolic Performance And then strong And power lift Like that would be The strength athlete And then the bodybuilder One would be like Anabolic performance And then maybe aesthetic And split Now what if I only Allowed you guys To use two programs Just two programs You can only use Two programs For each of these People To switch back and forth Or interrupt A cycle of them You can only use Two programs We know I mean obviously Performance and power lift Or performance and aesthetic Performance Okay Only because Only because Like power lift Is like literally The definition Of just trying to get strong Yeah You know it's not A lot of unconventional lists It's just very one to one I mean you guys are both Because you're throwing performance And then you guys are Taking care of the joints And thinking mobility We're trainers, dude Yeah, I know It's hard not to think that way For maximum benefits For the aesthetic person I would have ran Something like aesthetic For most of the Aesthetic or split For most of the year And only interrupted it Like in the middle With like a power lift I'd actually love to interrupt With a power lift cycle In there And then the rest is Aesthetic or split You know throwing Maps, prime pro For the joints And then you're fine I think Right, if we could do that Yeah, if we could do that Then you're totally fine I mean I get where you guys are I mean of course You're being a responsible trainer I'm trying to think more Like we're not Thinking general health We're not thinking All the other things That you should probably Consider Someone's going to hurt themselves For the two programs I'm going to focus you more on I'm thinking aesthetic The person that wants The hypertrophy It's going to be more like Aesthetic or split Most the entire year I agree With an interrupted program A power lift To get that Yeah, and then on the other side It's mostly power lift For the entire year And then just interrupt it With maybe anabolic Or maybe aesthetic Or one of those Yeah, no I can definitely go with that It's just hard to take Off my trainer Well, I mean We talked about this In a recent episode Right, where we talked about You know The performance we believe Is probably the most important General program That somebody could run Consistently Because we did It's so focused on mobility And stamina And endurance And moving in different planes Like it really is the one That will give you The best bang for your buck When it comes to I want to be stronger I want to be leaner I want to be fitter I want to have endurance I want to have stamina I want my joints to be mobile I can address this all night Yeah, and don't forget All these of mass performance Is like classic strength Right, so you're still going to build Good muscle Still burn I mean, you're still going to get All those general things out of it So I get it Good deal Look, if you like our information Head over to mindpumpfree.com And check out all of our guides We have guides that can help you 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