 Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always It's my own little canary we keep him in ambush and bring him out whenever we need to it's a it's Tyler What's up, buddy? How you doing? And good to be back good to be here with the one and only Chuck Moore. That's right the Truly like I would say Chuck Welcome back to the show number one number two when Marathi has to like leave hark here on for some reason I have no doubt that she leaves it in your careful hands for she knows That you're the only one she can trust to watch over it. Welcome back to the show daughters of Kane player Extraordinaire Chuck Moore. What's up, buddy? Thank you. That's uh, it's pretty generous I was kind of jealous that that Tyler was the canary, but after that I'm I think I'm pretty good Rathy's trusted advisor. Sure. You're like it. You're like a shadow stonker or something, you know, somebody she really trusts Teleports and teleports out There you go. All right. Have a safe flight Martin. We hope you we hope you travel safe. All right Well tonight we are going to be talking about the daughters of Kane 2022 they're back Guess who's back back again? That's right Daughters are back tell a friend so But first of course the news There's rumour engine Books on a scale Have I pride did I would do I win a prize I have properly identified the thing it is a group of books on a scale What do I win? Probably more 40k rumor engines in your future six 16 internet points. Yes and three influencer points. Yes, all right Excellent, I got a treasure those influencer points, you know Yeah, I don't know I have no idea like this could be literally anything This is one of this falls into that cadre of rumour engines. I've talked about before where you know Exactly what it is and it tells you absolutely Nothing, right? like you know it is six books on a scale It's like It's yeah, is it is it some 40k is inch You know demon that's like weighing the scales of books Or is it just some sort of throwaway piece that you can put on? This random ad mech person as a right that yeah or is it terrain? Is it just more terrain just could be terrain could be an AOS thing could be like a blood bowl thing Where this is all the rule books or something all the different rule books, right could be anything like could be a boat So so it's it's everything and nothing all at once there we go. All right Ah What's next Tyler? See AOS worlds, so AOS worlds finished up was taken out by England and was second Sweden Denmark Poland rounds out the top five US came in and Wanted to give a shout out to I'm not sure I pronounced her first name Ronja Yeah, Anderson, I think that's went Upstaging Tom Lyons Sorry Tom. She went 11 and oh at worlds across singles and doubles with night haunt having the best win raid The entire event as far as I can tell as I can tell just amazing Remarkable journey to to follow I mean and even though we didn't win it congrats to team America seemed like he represented us well and all No, it looked like it was just a great event and the coverage was wonderful It's just thrilling to kind of just Collect, you know all the little stories that were going on to through Twitter and in the in the coverage on on the Robs channel Agreed it's not a form of Warhammer I have any interest in whatsoever that weird teams format that's such a as I've said before it's such a clearly like weird European thing But It was good. I was good games awesome players awesome people now like it's it's awesome to see Warhammer Just being enjoyed and shared and played that much It's at such a high level and yet, you know, everybody being an awesome sportsman everybody giving it their all that's fantastic I do appreciate the little like digs You saw between the team Twitter accounts between rounds like on the nights where someone was playing team Italy the next day So they sent a video of them cutting spaghetti And just act like those were the best. That's good stuff this Darren Watson had a great thread on Twitter just yeah, I can't remember what is positive victim. Maybe It was just amazing Twitter threads. Yeah, where he thanked a lot of people and talked about the experience and yeah, it's just really cool So yeah, congrats England Yeah, very nice. What else we got? Cry next box sets. I've been a little out of the loop. So you want to share the details on that Vince? I do. Well, I'm assuming it's the next box set I will say I don't they didn't like directly say that but they more or less said that because they introduced this guy Who's up on the screen right now our little walking on stilts carry-in man carry-in guy man and And Basically by the way, these stilts would absolutely not work. These would break and shatter his ankles in literal seconds This is a gravity. You need the center of gravity. Yeah, that's not how stilts work You can't just tie a stick to your leg with some shoddy ribbons like not at all How this would work he would have two broken ankles it would look like misery up in here the second he started walking but anyways This is a Nurgle war cry band that they they this is the first guy we're seeing and What's interesting about that is two things. It's a new war cry war band, which is cool And also they pretty clearly said they're Nurgle aligned in the article Which would mean we have the first like directly sort of God marked thing And they also said that we're moving the sort of center of play here to In in Thandia in some swamp place Narlwood there we go I got there I got there into the Narlwood and it's gonna be these guys against the horns of hush it Who are Basically the horns of hush it are setting up industry and trying to log the forest and you know create Forges and stuff and these guys live in the forest and are trying to not let that happen So some more hot chaos on chaos action At least it's great conversion bits, you know Even if you're not really like fully into like the the war cry like it bring it into the sigmar for some reason would be great Sure, I mean, I will say I do not like this thing at all. No offense to whoever sculpted this but this one's not for me dog Zomphere master of the pan flute over here with his this thing in front of his face The stilts his little ropey hook which again I'm trying to figure out like the actual mechanics on this thing of how exactly that works to Eddie good Like does he cast it like a fishing hook if so? How like it just none of this makes any sense. I can't handle it and I don't like it But that's all right. Hey, I hope somebody likes it But yeah excited to see More war cry stuff of course because if they're if we're gonna get a new assuming Lee Maybe these guys are the sort of launch Factions for for the quote-unquote potential new addition of war cry that we if if the three-year cycle holds will launch this summer So maybe we're gonna have these dudes in the horns of us shit being the two launch factions and this will be the launch box I don't particularly care about either of those factions But I'm excited for more hot war cry action and more potential war cry war bands especially from other forces So there you go alright Nice, and then you had on here quick echoes of doom thoughts. So the new silver nathan's cave in box set Yeah, yeah, since I can talk about this now All right, so here's my quick thoughts on it Because this isn't it's not big enough to do a whole show and obviously we'll cover all this stuff Whenever the actual silver nathan's cave in battle tomes come out But my initial thoughts on what I saw in that box set specifically the new characters Just so everybody has it on record is I quite like the lady of vines. I think at her price point. She's great fantastic even I Don't I wouldn't call her necessarily an auto include but because there's a lot of people who might be arguing for that spot Especially come new book time, but I'm very happy with her and think she's an excellent Character and does a lot of stuff the army needs including being a double caster, which is awesome And just good all around good spell good abilities Cool stuff great fig A-plus like well done So I love the the lady of vines The new death master our single new new sculpt escaping The the figure I love is amazing like the actual model is amazing He is overpriced for what he is right now at 170 for that kind of a melee character But his little sixes do d3 mortals ain't nothing I had this dude I did use him in a game just as a test and I had him run around and kill just he went on a tear and just started murdering everything So I did enjoy that because if you just roll slightly hot boy, will he just rip through things? Which he did The new bell is interesting because you're not actually The new bell is actually really interesting. I think a lot of people don't like the new bell Because it doesn't have its battle shock immunity aura anymore and The peel of doom changed pretty massively I don't like the peel of doom on a d6 and with a shorter range But that's not like the bells. That's just some cost fallacy the bell is awesome Let me explain why the bell is awesome the bell is awesome Because all the bell is is you paying for a cheaper vermin lord. That's a double caster slash priest before you get the vermin lord out That's all it is. So you just now the bell needs to be pushed aggressively forward with some dum-dums around it to keep it moving and Just let it get wounded. Just let it get knocked around and beat up Enough so that you can just auto summon a vermin lord and what do you lose you lose the stupid? Peel that isn't very good anymore until it's really in close And you lose the the spell that he that the grace here can cast which is a terrible spell anyways And it always has been and somehow has skipped being redesigned yet again One of the worst spells printed on any war scroll on any character. I don't know why they think it's good I don't know what type of warhammer they play where whoever wrote this war scroll But um hey guys most of the game Flies or has a high movement like eight inches is probably the new average movement in the game So rolling 2d6 against that to only the non-flying things is real bad It's super bad guys. You get that right like I just Do you get it that that spell is horrible? You will never cast that? Okay, cool. I've went on that right now, but anyways All you're doing with the bell is sorry. Yes single caster. Thank you coach. Yes single caster slash priest all you're doing with the bell is pushing it around and Using it to it can push out spells It becomes a good arcane tome recipient in its current form, but it's really just a free vermin lord That's all it is. It's just summoning a free vermin lord You're just trying to cash it out to get a vermin lord And then if the bell's still around fine let it let it do whatever it does for the rest of its time Because I assume when the new book comes out vermin lords will get buffed and if vermin lords get buffed Correctly as they should be because they should be basically greater demons So if they get buffed then they will be expensive So hence paying 265 if the points remain the same For a bell that very quickly turns itself into a into a rat while still sticking around It's not like you necessarily lose the bell Is a good deal. So there we go. Love the bell Okay, there. There is my echoes of doom quick thoughts It's just a different bell. It does something different. You got to play it differently to get the value out of it Now it's not just a tower that sits in the back and gives everybody a rounded battle shot community It's got to go get in the mix Sure That was it Now it is it. Yeah. All right. There we go news end if thus end if the news nice all right Gentlemen, let's turn to some pick of the week. We'll start with Chuck Chuck, what would you like to share with everybody? I want to give Actually to the first is over to my buddy fit underscore hammer over on Instagram He's really he does what I do in weird sense He loves fitness and you see if you follow me on Instagram you see that I play him often because he lives local We've been friends for a while, but he's really pushed it into a business end and he does nutrition Coaching as well. So go over there check him out give him follow if you have any interest on Getting you know in better shape through nutrition and fitness and then why they're following me too because you know, I can use a few followers self plug The other pick I just want to give a shout out my Sort of my channel not necessarily meet specifically because I'm trying to figure out exactly what I want to do with my content Which has been Kind of just there. I haven't really focused it in any way Which is why I haven't grown and I know that I'm not worried about that but My really good friend Matt and and his co-host and also a good friend Cole They've been doing the big M's power hour and I put it on that Platform to strength hammer YouTube channel and really it's been the thing carrying The content on that channel for a while and it's actually it's very very interesting The reason it's just them and not me is because with my play testing I don't want to go there and have them not be able to talk about certain things like just Ramp it talk about whatever you want. It's kind of like they're outlet for it and they they do a really good job So I mean go give them kudos and go check them out Even if you don't care about my stuff check out them on my channel. It's a weird. I guess plug in here, but I Like it. No, it's no issue. You can you can self plug your channel is already linked down below I'll tell you right now because your US Open Seattle video is linked down there. So there you go So people can find that Tyler give us your 52 picks of the week Did I only have 52? Hmm Let's see re-roll ones. They had a nice battle report narrative about a report apparently because Jack decided to play seven heroes And that one a daughter's cane versus fire slayers. It was nice. It was no Marathi. There was no 15 both snakes It was a cool daughter's cane list enjoyed that But short as well as Grand Alliance death Both did some good dock battle tome reviews. So if you can't get enough Talking heads talking about daughters cane. It was shorts. Actually. It was an article. So that's a nice change of pace Yeah, Grand Alliance death is really small new channel Check them out. Well guys just going through battle tomes. Yeah, I enjoyed their commentary on the book and then Couple of mentions There's been some nice coverage of alt wars, which I'm really appreciative of two plus tough had a great review About a week ago and the die is podcast Die is cast YouTube channel guys that do all the battle reports actually today is their one-year anniversary So congrats to those guys for that. They had a little episode talking about their experience of alt wars as well As going over the new baltoms See how quickly I can get through my 52 Buddy I am I am beyond impressed It's it's great. It's really great stuff So for my I like I say that Tyler what's funny is I have a ton of pics the week down there, too So, you know, we're all sinners. I can't cast the first down here I want to give a shout out to this small channels coming up. I don't know if you've heard of it It's two plus tough They did a great little video he and Brendan Melnick No, Doug and Brendan did a hilarious video called weekly Warhammer parodying us Which was which was great and made me laugh and what's funny is like Doug is such a nice guy He reached out to me first. He was like, is this okay? And I couldn't stop laughing for like 10 minutes and I was like, yeah, man. It's more than fine. It's hilarious And then of course, um, yeah good. I was gonna say on that Vince. I'm not sure this idea check I want to have a tournament Where the TO knows every attendee well enough to create incentives or You know customize for particular players. So obviously with Doug The incentives is oriented around him playing negadug Like he's got to play negadug in a bat around and he'll get something amazing for it or for an entire game I'm all for that because I I do that with some of my local crew on things like actually my buddy fit hammer I have a shout out because he's cut is all get out like his arms look phenomenal. Mine are big but his are You know amazing So I'll like throw out random channel challenges to him be like, okay every picture we take today You can't flex and he'll just be like ah So I like this idea turning into a tournament format, that's genius There you go. Yeah, there could be something there. All right. Sorry, buddy. No, you're fine I already mentioned Chuck's channel and the the US Open Seattle US Open So go check that out on strength hammer and finally our good buddy Hey, whoa the man the myth the legend Back into AOS content. Not only does he have hey, whoa? I hope everybody is also subbed to hey whoa plus because he does also have the hey whoa plus channel But anyway, he put out his new every AOS army in 31 minutes video. We're creeping up in time But we're getting more armies Fantastic video and then he also uploaded to director's commentaries or I guess SJRK did probably so if that's Jercate's the one who cut those Thank You SJ On to hey, whoa plus so you can actually watch the director's commentary for the whole thing and all of that Fantastic fantastic videos all around. Okay Very good so with that Gentlemen Let's get to some hobby time By the way, if you haven't yet hit the like button Hey, why don't you click that like button and or subscribe? It's fun If you like daughters of Cain or hate daughters of Cain hit the like button YouTube will know which one it means okay Hobby time Tyler. How many units are you now committed to painting up to 11? 11 it's yeah, that's a pretty big number. I mean that's probably That's an army that's 2,000 points. I bet Yeah unit per table, right unit per table Chuck It takes up most of a Thandia box doing nothing in my basement right now. There you go. Mmm. Might maybe we get this 12 That's like I get to choose what I paint so there's there's no skinks There's no nonsense and I'm gonna be painting you painting is enough It can be it can be it can be army of God rex and he can go in the re-rolling channel with it I Yeah, I mean I think you've said you're you're you're do you want to do you want to talk about what you're leaning toward? Yeah, it's gonna be Nurgle and then Depending on how the new battle tone looks with someone else it might be trees. I figured those armies would take up the slap shop pretty well and My friend Luke Meyer he completed this gorgeous. I mean, it's the best slap shop looking I mean, I've ever seen he completed it in 10 days with a wife and kid and a job and so anyhow, he's gonna Show me the ropes and got some other painter friends. You might might be willing to help show me the ropes as well maybe we'll see never know with them and Yeah, so anyway, I got I got a Nurgle vanguard box You say that like I haven't been sitting here for literally two or three or years Saying like I will teach you how to paint if you want like Four years pre-pandemic Tyler. I was telling you this you wrote out the entire pandemic just with me right here And you'd be like nah Hi, I would like to learn painting. I only have some of the best painters in the world at my disposal. Nah So later I'm glad to hear it Nurgle is a great choice and Nurgle really is a fantastic army especially if you're if you're learning to paint it's a very forgiving army it takes to a lot of techniques really well and And and you if you mess something up and during the painting process Who cares because you can just go back and cover it over later with like Nurgle's rod or blood or disease or rust or vertigris or you're just like always more layers of junk on Nurgle Yeah, just dirt just dirt dirt from your yard So there you go Hey, man, Zach. Oh wow. Well, okay. Hope you're having a good time over there, buddy All right so the So let's uh Chug around hobby talk about Chuck. What are you doing hobby? What you've been painting? I've been If I added another unit of incubi to my 40k to carry army, but we're gonna set that aside cuz that's not that's 40k We don't care about that here painted some canary a bunch of Doomfire warlocks and I have to say as someone who has a Lot of horses in my old high elf army and I love horses as an animal as a model For some reason horses are so boring now. I struggle to get through 10 Doomfire warlocks, which aren't hard models to paint That aside 10 more sisters a slaughter So five canary and right now. Oh, I did the van dents I bought them and can convert them not convert to add some Kutrimons to make them fit for my daughter's cane army specifically But now I'm working on my bundle whalebiter proxy using the 40k avatar on top of like a giant skull and The the whirlwind endless spell from daughter's cane is like wings on the back. So he's like a blood angel So if that's on my desk right now I'm not gonna show a picture of it until it's done because I did a little bit of work on it today And the whole thing is ugly face. I think it's gonna be ugly face until it's completely done Okay, that's fair That's fair Look, there's no problem with that sometimes models got to look bad before they look good That's just like it's been a while since I've been such a large model. So it's kind of fun to get into that too. Yep All right Okay, so for my hobby time. Oh, I've been a busy little bee. So first off, there's this lady Paint it up. So there's our lady of vines She'll be a video these will be way in the future So there's a lot of other stuff in between now and then just because of everything else I've had to be working on recently But yeah, so there's her Is that a 100 or? Let's see, I think she's on an 80 80. Yeah, I was impressed yep She's on an 80 and then also we can't do her of course without having but child out of the darkness Yeah So the little death master as well, so I got both of the both the heroes painted up for the The box set and both of those will have various and sundry videos associated to them So, yeah And I I'll tell you I really like her her fig The lady of vines. I really like the death master to like they they really knocked it out of the park on both these heroes So a plus on that great models absolute pleasure to paint both of them Okay, well with hobby time out of the way and Me pestering everyone to hit like again if you haven't already Then I think it's time to uh, I think it's time to talk daughter's a cane. Yes Alright We're here we're here. It took 25 minutes, but we're here As this as the title slide says here daughter's a cane 2022 somehow We're here again. Mm-hmm my cat in the background is excited if you hear her. Sorry. I know no, it's okay. Couldn't really Now before I get into my summary as always gentlemen, I'd like your 40,000 foot view Tyler what's your take on this book? Still a very solid book still a tier if you want to you know go in that classification I'd say personally to me it strikes me as primary spike secondary to me Meaning that if you're interested in efficiency This is an excellent book for you in terms of winning games secondary to me because You can lean into for example a heavy snake build. They're beautiful models clear theme Rathi is one of the defining to me models. I'd say in the game that you can have fun with I think there's some subtle Any options that you can lean into if you want to do a little bit more work for your wins with daughters came We will get into that a little bit The design is pretty linear That is the synergy pathways are pretty clear from sub faction to sub faction in terms of the synergies of actions command traits and so on I Think it's still hammers and screens template for a lot of the standard list You have your you know 15 bow snakes and your 10 melee snakes and Rathi and you need a number of screens to protect your key pieces I think they have gone further into both the glass side and the cannon side So they're less durable and they're more potent, especially in combat The there's more items on the menu, which is cool Rathi and the 15 bow snakes are absolutely still on the menu The there's some subtle different decision points I would say within the book when you start getting into some of the details, which is nice All in all it's a solid book Yeah, it's not my personal cup of tea as far as the The footprint of it. It's maybe not quite as Johnny You know, it's my personal interest, but you can you can lean into that and I think have a good time So yeah, really overall good book. Okay Chuck What do you think of this book? I mean, let's get the meme out of the way It's a perfect book except for the fact that Teh Rathi's not in here in any way shape or form sure Yeah Honestly this this 2022 somehow I've been in in this mode since this came out with play testing because even when it came across in play testing it was kind of Really so soon not that I was mad, but it was you know, sure. Oh like it was kind of unexpected, but Still it was nice. It's a nice modernization of it there's a I've to see a lot of re-rolls went away and in some ways that's a bit of a nerf But in other ways, it's not which I mean we'll see as we go through with a lot of the especially the battle traits but All in all, I love the fact that Which else since this is just a lot or a back. It's not just about Marathi and the bow snakes I'm glad Marathi and bow snakes are still there for the most part. I could see everyone's argument about maybe changing Marathi's Mantrate to be melee only But also, I mean, that's what we have with the Slaughter Queens they have that already. So what would they do then maybe maybe once per game? You can move the snakes to the wounds there could have been five different things We didn't do any of them. So it doesn't matter, right? We could have picked any of roads We didn't do any of them. No, there'll be so obviously that will be looked at with other levers not within a specific book But so I'm glad of all the changes I think there's some very very unique and fun things we can do inside this book now That a lot of books don't have My low-key favorite is the Drachyganeth because the extra I love that new lever of Extra reinforcements. I absolutely love that when I came across my eyes lit up because I could I can do 90 witch elves again It's not my craith, but I love running 90 witch elves because as soon as that was gone I felt naked on the tabletop because I'm just I was just so used to that So I obviously I'm a big fan. That's why you you brought me on for this But I love the nuances and the differences and how sub factions matter a lot more even though there's more less Less of them I guess per se as far as like it's changing one tweak. It's not a tweak a Command trait and ability and item. It's just here's what this faction does and then as Tyler as you said You know what to do from here. You know where to lean into Yeah, okay Boop My summary good book is still good There you go Some small changes to Marathi and the bow snakes but lots more incentives for other build there are multiple valid options across the book now I'll talk about we'll talk a little bit about Marathi and the bow snakes. You know later on But like when we'll we'll talk about let's talk about it around the Marathi scroll shall we let's let's time our Marathi And the bow snakes discussion to her I think this is a Timmy spike army. I actually I mean I agree with your read Tyler I actually think it's just 50 50 right down the line Okay, I Think it does continue to be a fairly linear book. I agree with that It is still a buff and go army with lots of lots overlapping synergies and that kind of thing That allow it to punch both its weight However, you can it's not it's not a buff a death star Anymore because it used to be you kind of had to throw everything onto one Given the buffs now you actually are a little more incentivized to kind of spread them out to multiple units and Strike at multiple places in the enemy at once which is good Actually quite good And there's some interesting new mechanical options for various play styles You know autumn I see you ask the question You know about does this feel like a patch or a new book? I mean it it is it was worth a new book Yes, it does contain enough that it was a valid new book I mean if you're asking me should this have gotten a book before gets got a book I mean no, I can't morally defend that choice Right, but I just want but there's a lot of armies that need new books I mean there's like probably six armies that just desperately need a new book right now and If it wasn't for the situation the world my guess is we would have had all of them right now plus more But here we are You know so it is what it is and judging on its own it did clean up Clarify and open a lot of valid new venues for play styles It got rid of a lot of bad words bad rules interactions and things like that and smoothed a lot of things out To make it a much much much more enjoyable play experience. I mean to put it in the simplest terms I really did not enjoy playing dock under the last book. I Do enjoy playing dock under this book So something enough changed there for me to enjoy the book. That's my honest take Like I have run this in two games now and had a good time in both games and really liked the way the army felt so For whatever that's worth Okay Right on let's get into the book itself. Let's do this Okay Allegiance abilities All right, so Coming off of night haunt. It's a different story, but still good It's just night haunt has the most over weighted allegiance ability section of the world because all their troops are garbage This book has a lot more has higher quality Troops to start with but then also has a lot more buffs existing in other places that they can put on them So they don't need all be packed into the allegiance abilities All right, so let's go through these here. We go Temples of Cain blah blah blah. Yes, they still exist. Cool. We'll talk about it when we talk about the sub factions Uh battle fury a heroic action you can carry out with a doc hero that is not a monster You pick one of the instead of your normal heroic actions pick one of their weapons add to the attacks characteristic Okay. Mm-hmm. Cool Good. It's perfectly fine. I've had some use on it on a high gladiatrix. Oh, wow, that's it. That's a bold choice Take off to take off some of those years with that role. I mean, it's how I play I'm willing to take those risks, but that's where I tend to like to put it actually. I Actually really love this on the slaughter queen on cauldron for reasons. We'll talk about later When we get to her The slaughter queen on cauldron has always been maybe one of my favorite units In the army, I just love the whole silly concept of the thing I do love that the daughters because of apparently magical blood that flows through their cauldrons Their cauldrons just get to walk around on their own, but our scaven magically infused chaos empowered Warp bending screaming bells have to get pushed around by other rats in the lore of this new town They explained it much better than they ever have before as it's the cauldrons are being drawn in for the Anticipation of blood. They want to be full. So they're almost sentient in a weird way. Yeah. Yeah Hey, all good man. I'm not I'm not angry at the daughters for doing it I just want the bell to be able to drive her on its own too. That's all I want Okay, but hey here. We are Go ahead. Yeah, I think you may have said pick one melee weapon. It's It's all melee weapons now, of course. Well, I don't know but I imagine that the cauldrons are still classified as a mount Okay, I don't actually think there's anyone who has multiple Now the Medusa Yes, the Medusa would be the one who would benefit multiple times Yes, Marathi as well because it does not specify you put on Marathi came Yeah, I think it's interesting, you know, because that goes from three to five attacks I believe threes and threes minus two run now Three damn it. No two damage flat or D3 damage. I can't recall. Anyway. Yeah, it makes her a little Give her a little more output and combat, which I think is is nice. But yeah, it's cool rule. Yep I'm definitely fine heroic action. No issues with it Good stuff Now we come to the best new rule that they have in this book Period end of story. I will accept I'm not I'm not I will take no questions I heard you like catechism vince All out all out slapter Because that's what I'm doing when I'm punching this button You can use this command ability when a friendly daughter's a cane You just pick to fight the combat phase the command must be issued by a friendly daughter's cane unit And received by the unit that's been picked fight if I let the unmodified hit roll for an attack Maybe that unit in this phase is six. It's two hits instead of one. So it's just catechism. It's just six is double tap Now, why do I think this is like the greatest rule? Simple well, first of all, I like six is a double tap. It's a great it actually smooths out your your Attack profile really well The second reason I like this because your your initial read on it might be but vince that's competing against all out attack And isn't plus one to hit better than six is double taps Well, sometimes yes, sometimes no, it has to do with the base to hit number But the reality is this army might as well be called we're on twos and twos the army Okay Like if you ain't fighting on twos and twos you ain't trying hard enough Okay, like you should be on twos and twos And if you're on twos and twos already absent penalties to hit Uh, then you don't need all out attack you but this gives you an alternative This is here In the for the same reason that discorporation or whatever it's called I think it's discorporate is in the night hot book because they can't use all at defense Most of the time when your units are fighting all at attack has no value to you So you get a replacement offensive, uh command ability So there you go Yeah big fan myself. Yes, tyler any thoughts on the on the all outs laughter Yeah, it's excellent. Yeah, you know that Fanatical faith still there. You got a six up. Congratulations. Well, no, don't don't don't shrug it off like that All right, we're now living the meta. Yeah, you made it so so so nothing I the reason I love daughters of kane. There's so much rent out there There's so much rent every every club game every little tournament I go to Rend everywhere and I just go you know what that's great. I'm just gonna roll six It's all I'm gonna do. I'm just gonna roll sixes. It's all I gotta worry about I don't care about anything else. So you got going on. So I just love having an army wide six up It's in the current meta. It's just it feels good to always have a chance Uh, that's not with that. That's fine. I have no issue with it. I'm just saying it's not new It's been there forever. They've always they're Uh They're amongst their chief weapons Are, you know surprise and an almost fanatical devotion to kane, obviously, so Uh, surprise fury and an almost fanatical devotion to kane, list amongst the amongst the chief weapons Employed by the daughters of kane and then the blood right table, which is all cleaned up now to fit more with the modern stylings One to roll in turn one one to charge and one to run in turn two because these are all cumulative We're not going to read them like that every time, but it's the it's the 12 days of christmas Uh theory where you keep getting more lords of leaping even though you don't want them Uh And gooses and stuff, but instead here. It's all good things turn three. It's plus one to hit turn four It's plus one to wound turn five friendly daughters of kane units have a ward of five plus So which is not a modification Of fanatical faith. It doesn't reference to that rule. It just supersedes it There is a new thing that they gained that is a five upward Mm-hmm That is that will be relevant later Where I mentioned earlier how how some of this specifically felt like a nerf and then the buff was the first two The one to run and one to charge felt like a nerf because I'm probably into you turn one or if I want to or You know turn two. I like the re-rolls better, but we got to turn three on I like it being a plus. So, you know Yes And this is where we're going to talk for just a moment about a new play style that shows up in this book Which is the ramp strat There is a lot of potential ramp in this book I will say one of the reasons that I quite like the new book is I sat down And I got this book and I built an army And there's the army I wanted to run like this is the it's not everything I've painted But it's the stuff I wanted to run out of what I have painted No, morathe because I don't generally run morathe and I built out my list And I put all the units in I wanted to put in And guess what it was 2,000 points on the nose and I was like Shut it down boys. We did it. We got it. It's done. This is my list. We're good forever I could still mania this list Uh, so they're gonna you're gonna tell us the actual list here. Are we It's gonna Leave us hanging we can talk about it at some point. It's not relevant. It's just it's the one I like There you go A couple of notes on this So if I recall we got a bit of an odd fact where if we auto run six We're not able to modify that six in any way So we're not auto running six and adding one for quickening bloodlust. That is technically true at the moment. Yes Okay, fair enough. Yep, which is the best kind of true Yeah And yeah A silly thing like I don't know why that is that way it shouldn't be and they should undo that because it's completely non-intuitive Like units they get bonuses to run or well to run being this specific case where this happens But you think of it as an innate quality of that unit, right? So it's like I ran I get this bonus and then I said to a six I get that bonus Like treat it like what it is. Uh, whatever whatever, okay Uh, I had long fury, you know, I think there are a couple of standard options to Make teleport charges more reliable with this army. I mean now an eight with a re-roll is What 65 66 chance some some more some more around me. Yeah You could cogs That a seven with a re-roll stop it now to get those cogs in there. No, no, no, no You don't need anything. That's not in this book Tyler. We can stop right there. You don't need those You know, you don't need those crutches. You can take them out I'll form girl. I agree with chuck here cogs is always the wrong answer God the disrespect of cogs, uh, worldwide it's because it's bad. That's that's just basically what it is Uh, a girl battle mage with wild form is another nice ally choice. Uh, with these rules. Yeah, I accept. I accept your girl battle mage Battle mage plus one from the built in. Yeah Okay Ironically Sean. Yes, that was discussed and no, I don't think it should be. I think it justifies its existence Should it have been the battle tome right now? Uh, that's a different discussion Okay Uh, is it valid? Yes. Is it the battle tome at the moment? Probably not. Uh, here we go. So Um Command traits all right there is At least one command trait on this list That does in my mind stand out above all others And probably needs to be FAQed out of the gate And that is a couple of ways Yeah Well, I don't think they're gonna FAQ it the way you want their tyler in that. I know I know your second point, but sure So let's talk about these command traits. These are daughters of cane heroes, obviously. Um And the one that stands out in my mind is zealous orator Which I have unabashedly taken in my list This thing is bonkers good If this general issues the rally command, you can return one slain model to the unit that receives the command for each four plus instead of each six Who boy? Hello 50 50 rejuvenating units That is very powerful. That is also not key worded to daughters of cane I assume because this went to print at the same time as the fire slayers booked in basically And uh, they didn't think about it there and they didn't get it catch it in time to make here So I would very much expect an FAQ That says no, no, this is only daughters of cane units. You cannot bring back ally dragons or whatever on a four up um Or eels or sharks or something. I don't know. I don't know what you would pick Um, it's your seals sure But you know, it'll it'll get changed to daughters of cane I personally think what tyler you're pointing out is that mechanically it should be a five up instead of a six because a four Up is such a wildly powerful massive swing Especially as this is an army that can often just fight itself out of combat pretty easily And so rally becomes a viable choice in multiple turns Hit like for the dogs. By the way, the dogs are with me today There's there's a number of issues so guys this Rule is the my least favorite part of this book. It's the most standout problematic part of this book It should not have made it to print with a four up This creates skew on a number of fronts For example, this will often mean that you're going to need to prioritize killing Whomever is your general that has this? Let's say it's a melasai iron scale You could potentially be hiding that piece behind a terrain Making it not visible to ranged output apart from the usual sentinels or whatnot It's got I think a holy if it's the general it's holy with 18 it can issue rally to eligible units It's yeah, you can let's say you've got 15 melee snakes in combat And some of them die you can be thoughtful with your positioning to where you pull out of combat through the removal of models There you go. You're now out of combat without even having to retreat or teleport out or whatever. Anyway, I'm not a fan Yeah, it should have been a five up and this would have been a really interesting command trait list I agree. It's unfortunate because Like there are other command traits here that should be interesting right Um fueled by revenge should be interesting because it's a it's a big aura bubble a plus one attack from melasai It's great. Right. Like that's a cool command trait Uh sacrificial overseer is not a bad command trait giving you know allowing you to to fight twice if you kill something Right, but but with the strike last effect, which by the way, that's how strike That's how fight twice in the combat phase should be just functioning now anybody who inherits this ability somehow Like, you know corn in the future or whatever who I imagine should have this like all over the place um It should just be if you get to fight a second time the strike last strike last effect applies to you Another good one, right? So like there are other valid choices here But they just get so overwhelmed by zealous orator because of it. That's the problem I'm going to challenge a little bit here I'm not going to challenge the fact that maybe it should be a five up because I think mathematically I I understand that completely Celso which were is the very obvious pick that everyone's going to go to Yeah But you're going to have to be running enough damage in your unit Which you can put out you can get to the twos and twos minus one minus two depending on your sub faction and dish out the damage Yeah, if you have a horde you're likely going to kill whatever you do So if you have 20 to 30 you're going to kill whatever you're touching most likely if you don't you're dead If you're running MSU, who cares about zealous orator bringing back four or five I and if you're running snake army I want plus one attacks with moose on units I want that more than I want zealous order because I'm running MSU with that army also master of poisons is Not the best pick but it's the craith and me pick coming out. I love putting that on my uh high gladiatrix If she said because Because just to be able to take off those bigger units quicker bigger heroes quicker with her ability Just to put because it happens at the end of combat, which is the same time her ability So in your phase you do the d6 Before you do her ability you get to choose that before you do her d3. That's fun And and low key my my favorite I thought of this today actually because I was diving through the book trying to be like Okay, I know the obvious stuff's going to come out here. Like what's what's the hidden thing? I Had queen or slaughter queen probably slaughter queen is my pick on this on cauldron with the arcane tome getting arcane mastery with crownal. Yeah, it's just just to have a priest wizard on a big base Yeah, with with all the access of those. Yeah, just to keep up and go anywhere she wants I don't know if it'd be the the best, but I think it'd be It could be pretty tasty. I think there's no play in that Here's the thing. Chuck. I actually agree with you. Like you can actually so here's the problem If we just zot it out if we turn zealous order into ipsum lorem. Yeah, sure. Okay I think you actually have probably three to four Valid choices here easily that all feel on par with each other. That's actually my problem Right because Master of Poisons is actually pretty cool on like one of those big heroes a bonus like the The slaughter queen on cauldron will in fact cause if you make her the general she will in fact cause damage Two things she fights That you can be sure of getting a free d6 mortal kicker at the end of combat like a sort of end of combat metal cruncher Is not bad at all Okay So like fueled by revenge. Good. We talked about sacrificial overseer. Good. Right. The problem is zealous overseer Sorry zealous or it's or I apologize Is just so good that it It it will override most people's choices And that's a shame because I want to see people actually make more lists with more fun things Like if it was me I would immediately f aq this to say five plus And f aq this to say daughters of cain units only I expect the daughters of cain units only thing I don't expect the five plus change, but they should it would make for a healthier selection here Amongst still attractive and it would still be yet. No, it's still be good. It's still in the conversation It just doesn't feel so auto because like I I hear what you're saying chuck But like I tell like I'm unashamedly taking this on my general And you know on my 10 packs of snakes I mean, yeah, if you are reinforcing Your core units, essentially. Yes, you're gonna take that I I will not deny that because but you better be reinforcing if you're going MSU and you take that you're wasting your time There's other better options, but all comes down to how you're trying to play in the list. Agreed. Agreed Totally fair. Okay Let's talk artifacts. We have many many much many much artifacts here No, we we just have one Well, we do that is correct. I agree There is oh, there is one you bow down to the queen in the crown, baby Uh, the crown of woe is where we're going straight to you just stop reading here Because this thing is real good Enemy units cannot receive the rally or inspiring presence commands while they're within nine inches of the bearer If the and in addition if the bearer kills anybody then it goes to 15 inches for the rest of the battle Uh, love everything about this It's great I one of my games I fought a bunch of zombies 260 packs of zombies and um Yeah killed about half the unit Okay, and then he was like well just inspiring presence the unit keep drowning. I was like, no, no, no No, you won't if you want to do us you want smooth brain this quickly. You just you put it on uh malusai on her a little cauldron and you just arcane bolt something and move on of your day Instantly just Uh boom goes the dynamite and there went all the zombies exploded. They exploded Well, it was one. I mean because it says wounds caused by the bearer's attacks would an arcane bolt qualify Actually, that's a good question. Certainly blood rack stare is the stair would the stair would yeah The stair is an attack because it's a shooting attack. Yes. You gotta trigger my to brain. I'm gonna look at that later Yeah, that's a good question. That's a very good question But either way crown of woe is amazing whether nine or at 15 inches. It's super solid um so Yeah good. I mean The other ones are like They're there I I do find it funny by the way that you could use So just as a quick Sort of funny aside the crone blade thing where you can pick one of your weapons And if the unmodified hit roll made for an attack with that weapon is six you heal one wound allocated to the bearer And then you've got bathed in blood each time an enemy model is slain by woes caused by this general's attack You can heal one wound allocated to this general. So if you gave a single Character like a slaughter queen both of those things it would actually be quite funny how much they could heal themselves just by attacking So kind of kind of a funny thing and I don't hate the runicane In any other book in existence It's just in here. It's like you're not going to compete with the crown of well, right Yeah, I mean To me this is the situation where there actually are other artifacts where we'll go into the other stuff There's there are good other artifacts in the other sections But this is just emblematic of what we often see in the artifact sections where they write one or two good ones And the rest are just throw away and I don't know why that is neither of these are like fun They're just bad Um like hey, hi. Hello gw design and development team. Hi doing quick talk I'm not saying every artifact needs to be some powerful thing That's not what I'm arguing because that's how it would be easily sloughed off or heard That that's what I'm saying that we only want spiky powerful artifacts Not what I'm saying Okay, what I want is artifacts that do anything and most of these do nothing They do nothing for an extremely limited choice. I have Like really think about the power of something like this operating all game Okay Versus one of my weapons if I fight It's ridiculous And by the way, if you want to make wackadoo crazy Like artifacts that are like roll of six somebody explodes and is slain I'm all for that make wacky cool artifacts because there's a whole cadre of people out there who like that too That's the kind of stuff I want to see. Yeah, like those things are cool I I want more like Nurgle's nails and brass orbs and crazy stuff like that that kind of stuff is silly and fun So make ridiculous once a game something completely wild happens Great. That's that's in the list. Just don't make nothing Especially and this is not just this this is kind of every book You have all these sub factions that made the have items in it from the previous book More than I think should port over like I I I I do miss I played craith. I missed the venom in the gendra Right. Just got to pop a d6 mortal wounds as as an artifact. Just once per game is terrible But you know, I'd be happy to see that here as Just an option just for fun And then the other ones that I can't remember off the top of my head from the previous book would be It'd be fun. Just one or two on all of them Like you don't need to just pour them over but like I like the newer ones too Don't get me wrong But yeah, like you have pre-made ones you could probably pour it over much easier and twist and adjust to the new edition Yeah, yep Um So uh zeno gothic, I understand that that take he said once per game artifacts suck Even if the effect is significant really takes away from customizing the load out of your hero Zeno, that's a very like you have a certain psychographic profile that you just communicated to me right there Okay And that that you just said Johnny spike like maybe 75 25 You're off of that particular thing you're talking about loadouts for your heroes and customization and stuff like that But there's a psychographic profile people who look at stuff like the brass orb or nergal's nail in its old version I know that's not what it is now in the new book But I can't remember what the new version of it's called keyhole of nergal or something And they're like This is what I want. I want to roll I want to roll my it's worth my artifacts a lot for this chance for a crazy effect That will be just because the time it happens. I want to experience the time it happens So those those people should have artifacts written for them too right but Like and that's fine. That's that's a valid player type of the game No one looks at this thing And says yeah, that's great That's the problem Okay, there's no profile. This is serving Nobody nobody's supporting that Okay Or like once per game roll a die on a four up. Nope. Stop shut up Cracking almost everybody almost unless it's just incredible Every army needs to crack and tooth Like hey, whoa, just just summed it up perfectly. What is up? Hey, whoa in the chat. We just shouted out as 31 minutes awesome aos video destroyer in the arach war clan's book once a game plus three damage for all your attacks Oh, yeah, man. Oh, yeah You you use that bad boy once you're like It's coming, you know and you just you just feel so good feel so right Uh plus three damage. I don't know what I said, but whatever Um, so, you know, there there are there are valid once per game artifacts like you can do that Um, the boat went in idk like make a boat. It's a perfectly fine artifact Right, okay. Anyways continuing on the artifact journey here Uh crystal heart when the bear attempts to cast a spell that summons an endless spell the range that spell is doubled. Nope I mean, oh like yeah, go ahead Yeah, I mean this this is one of the johnny ones. So if you if you want to Go through some hoops and try to do some cool Off the path things with this book. You've got some options with crystal heart. So you could Bind crown of woe with suffocating grape tide For going into a horde meta turning off rallying inspiring presence, right? You're taking six inch range to now 12 inch range An eight inch move with the predatory Suffocating grape tide each enemy unit that you're crossing over rolling on the model Roll a die per model So if it's two units of 30 rolling 60 dice each six is a mortal wound not bad Just in terms of a chip damage strategy. So yeah, I think I think there's some endless spells where you can Try to lean into some off the path things Charges of allegar was another one that came to mind 18 inch setup range double that to 36 And then I think that two pieces Can reorient them within like a whole year than 12 of each other Anyway point being that it gives you a lot of range with that to control it and charge the valagar X movement down to half and it turns off fly So, yeah, I think there can be some bags of tricks you can try to come up with with this kind of piece, but yeah Yep, so let me let me answer a question real quick. Michael foos said hey vent or tyler What is timmy or johnny or spike? Yes as as answered in the comments? Yes, they are psychographic profiles originally created for magic the gathering Which we end up talking using as a framework a lot johnny wants to experience something amazing generally likes big monsters big effects big experiences Or sorry timmy wants that Timmy wants to experience big things johnny wants to You know sort of expresses intelligence and so likes list building and combos and And using unusual off the beaten path choices and you know the the list game and the tech game and playing very wombo combo stuff What I just did what my ego just just wanted me to do right there to correct Literally what tyler just did And spike wants to win Like that's that's the shortest way of saying it that's somewhat inarticulate and incorrect like spike wants to sort of like Spike sees it as a competition and so would like to sort of experience Victory however, that's defined in some way which doesn't always have to be winning the game, but can't be um okay, so uh And joseph what you're referencing there is vorthos and vorthos and melvin are appreciation profiles not psychographic profiles They don't describe the why they describe the what? uh, okay, so Uh, I mean shadow stone, right? It's shadow stone. That's that's what we're taking here. It's shadow stone. Yep Yeah It's because it's the only basic source of plus one to cast in the army now You're right right now that it's marathi lost it marathi kane and yeah with mind raisers staying at eight, which is where it needed to be Like yeah, that's that's the one I go for I could see uh arguments for sevenfold shadow if you're playing the teleporty style old Dark elf, but like still if you're doing that you kind of want mind raiser in your list So you probably will lean back to shadow stone regardless and As we as we said if you're taking two if you get two artifacts with the way you're building your list One of them is going to be crownable no matter what Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I do like simple shadow as you said check as part of a combo damaged place You know you're in kelobron, right? And you use the kelobron command ability to teleport 1015 bow snakes and you use a simple shadow to Put your medusa or bloodrock shrine in a spot to light up a big unit So if it's 30 models, you're going to do what like Oh Maybe get like seven of them And then six or seven of them from that and then 1015 bow snakes you do some damage from that Uh, you're burning that you and then maybe you have like five heart renders that come in They shoot as well and then they move to still an objective, you know Like suddenly you're able to I think those kind of combo damaged plays you can do some interesting things Yeah with simple shadows, but as his book draws out over the years here and hopefully it's years and not Yeah, let's yeah, we're done now Yeah, hopefully um, I think I think it's gonna be interesting to see if people Eventually move away from crown of woe because they find the power in a book elsewhere with the units That crown of woe isn't necessarily as needed as we thought Uh, it's I mean right now. It's like yeah, take it. That's what you want to take But I'm curious to see how that's going to expand over the years as the list develops since there's more than one Army in this book now. So that's that's a thought experiment that we'll visit in two or three years time maybe Sure, I appreciate what you're saying. Tyler about seven fold by the way and the teleport ability I mean, you know built-in auto teleports are good. My issue is there's a lot of other teleport capability in this book Right. I don't necessarily need this Um, that's that's the challenge like it's not as though. This is a book lacking in teleportation options So yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I would expect shadow stone and what's it called master magic the Universal commentary and reroll cast return. Yeah, I would expect that to be a pretty common option Just to make mine razor a little more reliable seven up with a reroll Uh, I will also say that the canite pendant and the priest thing is interesting now Oftentimes you are chanting on two ups in this book. That is a pretty real thing that's happening But that being said some of your prayers you don't want to miss with and hey one in six is still a chance of failure So if you're really really risk averse Uh, you know the canite pendant can make it so the turn you need the prayer to land the prayer sticks It's just yes, right? Maybe we lost the iron circuit of the rerolls granted that was much harder because we weren't on twos, but yeah Right. Exactly. Oh an implication Do they need to spell out prayer or invocation or is invocation within the prayer category? I'm thinking hard of fury for example to make that an auto get that out automatically. I can't recall. I know an invocation takes a prayer Do I think they yes, I think they would I don't know. It's a good question because it is a prayer that summons the invocation Right, right, so you have anybody in the chat knows off hands. How'd they classify that? I know that if you do an invocation it takes a prayer slot Right. Yeah. Is it yeah, anyway what I just said So I think if so that could be interesting as a way to when you really need hard of fury to pop out Yeah, because hard of fury is actually interesting in this book quite a bit. So yes Um, but it's we're gonna that'll be like one of the last things we talk about But go ahead and mark that down in your mind right now that That hard of fury is one of the few sort of of that type of thing that I actually find interesting Um, which is good. That means that the two books we reviewed in the last two weeks We'll have one out of three of their sort of quote-unquote endless spell offerings. I understand it's actually a prayer, but Yeah, those things being valid um, okay Boo boo spell lures Um, you know pretty similar ish honestly. There are some minor changes to things here, but You know they're They're the spells Mind razor is still mind razor. It still does what mind razor does So that's good And I still like a lot of the other spells in here I still like steed of shadows because I like moving 16 inches with a fly speed on certain heroes Especially because of the speed of this army where things your troops can pull out ahead of your heroes pretty easily I still like mirror dance quite a lot. I mean, that's my sort of Johnny-ish pick because mirror dance is one of those things. It doesn't immediately have power You have to put yourself in the position to have power You've got to to have the the right heroes moving at the right time to to switch swap Yeah, there's some subtlety with mirror dance. Yeah, you can get in with all the buffs you get from the from the The high gladiatrix Not sure. Yeah, absolutely. I just like just surprised here by the way Here's all my buffs now that you didn't think I had right being able to switch swap heroes around is generally pretty good um, it can like, you know just uh You had they you have to really watch your range and sort of what you are Right and who's doing it and who's holy within 18 and stuff like that, but um, you know, I do uh One of the things I enjoy about is having some dumb little hero and then you can sort of if you can you can like switch swap up a um Your blood rack shrine and just all of a sudden now you're in like prime stare Uh location for when the the shooting phase rolls up or whatever. So, you know, there are things Um, depending on there One piece about mirror dance. They did not specify you Not move, you know, there's no language like this counts as your move for that movement phase. So Yeah, you could swap in the shadow queen and move whatever she's at on our profile 14 or I mean that so that could be quite meaningful Yep Yeah, absolutely um, and then you know there's uh There's plenty good stuff in there like the withering is also good. You don't often need it Like plus one to wound you almost only need it often to buy yourself out of penalties Because it's so easy to ramp to being on twos to wound But it's still an okay spell. It's just it's casting value of seven is problematic to me Um hard to hard to hit without shadow stone Does impact shooting, of course. So that is one distinction from the sure the rights table Yeah, yes, we should say the blood rights table is only melee. Yes None of those plus ones to hit or wound or any of that impacts Range attacks And if you are looking at it's nice because if you're looking at allies you put this on the enemy So you essentially get the buff anything that is in your army with this who maybe isn't getting those abilities. So That's a good point See the shadows with little Marathi is still great as a pinning piece I've you know, a lot of people over the years have done that with with little Marathi And yeah now that she knows the entire lore so you can pull that The kind of your bag when you need it in a particular game. Yeah, I think that's really nice Solid all around it's a good spell lore. I mean like I don't um Pit of shades is generally garbage for the same reason that cracks call is generally garbage uh, even though it even though I would point out that Pit of shades has a uh The same casting value, but five inches longer of range and effects flying units Um, but it's still a garbage spell Even though it is patently better than the other spell we talked about as being a garbage spell earlier It's still a garbage spell Because again, things just move too fast in this game on average. That's the issue And that's too swingy of a secondary mechanic um Getting the point out about mirror dances in case anybody cannot read the the fine print there at the bottom Move from the battlefield and more than three Inches from all enemy units, so it doesn't have the nine inch the normal nine inch So yeah, you could really be on top of somebody That potentially Yeah, hence the setup kind of out of nowhere for the perfect stare Right and and if the summer moves as we clearly think it's going to into hashtag horde meta All I'm saying is stonks on the blood rack shrine Because you know clean block of a third of a horde unit with your your stare ain't ain't too shabby We've been just you have the shadow queen here and you eat you'll confuse your opponent you swap that with the Blood rack shrine you stare and you stand there in the way. They have to charge you then you only show Yeah, yeah Yep, melt melt melt. Okay Uh, sorry prayer scriptures Um, unfortunately my biggest thing I'm sad about in this particular prayer scripture In our in our prayers is that we once again had a chance to fix a third rail rule that shouldn't exist in the game And yet once again we decided to go ahead and keep it I don't know why I've been saying and when battle tome one came out I said it was wrong and shouldn't be here when battle tome two came out I said it's a shame. They didn't fix it. Let's hope for the next one Battle tome three. Here we are Still haven't fixed it and that is blessing of cane A prayer that has an answer value of three in a range of 14 inches If answered pick one friendly dars again, you know, holy with the range invisible to the chanter until your next hero phase You can reroll fanatical faith rolls your ward save. You should never ever ever ever ever ever ever Be rolling ward say rerolling ward saves in this game That should be a third braille kills you instantly if you write like if you write that rule in You get one chance to change it. Otherwise you must be forced to leave the building and never write another book It is that bad to me now as a quick note These are Rerolls of the fanatical faith rolls Remember earlier when I mentioned that the blood rights table in round five Just gives you a ward save of five up. It does not say your fanatical faith roll is now five up It just gives you a new separate different ward save If you happen to be in round five or have ramped to it Blessing of cane does not let you reroll the five up. It only lets you reroll the six up and okay I'll keep in mind too just because If you want to take advantage of this You can't roll five up and then a six up. You're gonna be six up six up just in that to Word out there right now Correct Um, but you still got your good prayers, you know, you still got catechism, uh, which is which is great Uh, I've always been a fan of what's that? I love martyrs personally Yeah, absolutely. Like martyrs sacrifice. I've always been a fan of uh crimson rejuvenation Uh, honestly, uh, I like I like heels I think heels are unexpected and I just like the ability to to heal back up units Especially in a world where we now have heroic recovery too. It's just it's nice to be able to just tap a few wounds back onto a hero um And then of course my new hot pick my absolute first prayer every time sacrament of blood Uh Answer value of three in a range of 14 inches if this prayer is answered pick one friendly daughter's cane unit Holy within range invisible to the chanter until your next hero phase Add one to the number of the current battle round when determining the abilities gained by that unit From the blood rights battle trait this ability and other similar abilities are cumulative Oh, yes, uh, i'm all in on ramp by the way in case I haven't made that clear In round one. I want my snake units on round five and that is very doable It is super doable You can have one snake unit on five and one snake unit on four is quite easily on turn four quite easily So basically everybody's all buffed. You're where you want to be So yeah sacrament of blood is my new hot pick But so yeah, there you go A lot of good prayers It's covenant of the covenant of the iron heart was is that a new one? I don't remember that when being there That's it's the same. It's just it's never been taken because our witch brew gave us battle shock immunity. So that that makes sense, right? Which it's still it's like you think I mean and to be fair when I played this I didn't have a lack of uh command points nor did I care to Save a ranger of of the girls maybe in a unit that I had so I still like that it's there, but it's not one I uh Ever really look at myself Yeah All gas no breaks, baby. Like I'm not I'm not here to I'm not here to worry about my casualties That's irrelevant. I'm here to I'm here to cause casualties. You're the one who needs to worry about battle shock not me If you get into me and lift one of my you you get to lift one of my units That's your reward, but if I get into you that's that's how this goes See, that's why I like martyr sacrifice because I'll take sisters to slaughter witch elves with bucklers So, okay, I get to do a bunch of mortal wounds back as I go on my way out and then do mortal wounds on the way out again Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so like yeah, I'm dead, but so are you right? I'm okay with that trade just a bunch more chip damage into the unit on the way out Yeah, just weaken and weaken and weaken them which matters a lot because your units are expensive in this book I mean it is true that you're still in you know a fairly elite-ish army although you can be a little more Hordy now, but still I want everybody to note that Vince just said daughters of cane units are expensive. Did we get that on record? I just want to note it. Okay Move on That's fine. I mean we'll come to the points if you look at a lot of the units wound to cost ratio That's what I'm referencing, right? Gotcha I mean you're gonna you're not this isn't the people who are going to put a ton of wounds on the table Like that's off in the case Okay, I should say most builds won't All right sub factions Okay, uh These are basically six bangers like this is Uh, this is the tom petty's wildflowers of sub faction sections every to every single song is good from top to bottom Uh It is it is weezer's blue album It is I mean you pick I mean there's there's there's a lot of stuff like this Uh Yeah, okay. It's it's this Taylor Swift's reputation album to me I would have went for 1989, but sure that's that's sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely Taylor Swift's 1989 album Yeah, I also would have accepted bad religion stranger than fiction, which was also similar just top to bottom bangers but anyways Okay, uh Hagnar Add one to the number of the current battle round when determining the abilities gained by friendly hagnar units from the blood rights battle trait This another similar ability is cumulative That last sentence is vince's favorite Which one does vince is vince gonna play every time I have officially supplicated myself to hagnar. Let's do this I'm curious. Do you have you tried with max cauldrons? Yeah, no. No, I have max behemoths. I guess okay. Yeah, I used two of it. So the extra rule doesn't matter Okay, I wasn't sure if you've taken advantage of that yet. It can be fun, but I know it's probably not quite in your play style Uh, yeah, I mean it's yeah, I like I got too many other things I want um, but yes the um The bonus here written blue is one cauldron that you take does not count towards your behemoth limit So you could technically have five Coltons Um, okay. I I don't know why you would ever do that, but sure why not Because I own five cauldrons vince. I must do it on occasion. Sure. That's fine It's the only reason Yes, uh, all right drakey-ganeth Improved the ren characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly drakey-ganeth witch elves units and friendly sisters of slaughter units by one If those units made a charge move and you get one reinforced or double reinforced witch elf or sisters of slaughter without costing reinforcement points um So what that means let's we're just gonna jump ahead here real quick What that means is that on the charge if mine razor has landed and there's a high gladiatrix around is that your drakey-ganeth Sisters or witch elves can come screaming in with neg three rend Uh, we're playing on twos and horrifying hitting on yeah twos and twos twos. Nice. Yeah Yep The first time you say that to your opponent, they're gonna go what? And then you have to explain it Okay, so every one of these models on a 25 mill base It's gonna make three attacks each and fighting two ranks basically because the this is the region and um So i'm gonna go ahead let's say and get 20 of these 20 of these in So i'm gonna go ahead and make 60 attacks On twos and twos i'm gonna pop my all-out slafter So sixes or double taps neg three rend If mine razors up two damage. Well, goodbye like that's any unit in the game deleted. Yeah delete Um, but it's super fragile right because that's relying on you getting the charge for a bunch of this on the high gladiatrix not getting killed On mine razor actually going off Right like it. There's a lot of weaknesses to that plan Okay But I love that you can do it that it can be a good melee army like part of my argument here is The way I want to run daughters is as a good melee army And it very much puts the the glass and glass cannon like at the same time if those girls get hit back Man, they're dead. Oh, yeah Like they're just dead So Donnie rongo said thank thank the gosh. I played night haunt. Yeah, indeed Overpaying for all that rend Uh, so yeah, but I love that this is an option as you mentioned that you could have big hordes of witch elves back on the table Um through this and that they can be really scary on the charge Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm I'm I've always been a secret fan of drachy keneath and now it's it's it's much bigger It'll probably pull me more games and not away from just running craith over and over again Just just for the reinforcements alone let alone the Damage you can do right right So, yeah, good stuff there kelton are Your entire army has retreat and charge Just like it's probably the most underwhelming one in this list to me And yet it's an incredible ability Yeah, it was good in last book. It's great in this book too. Right, right like yep. Okay I played a little bit in the last book and The standout of course is being able to get the shadow queen out of a sticky situation get her get her And beyond that I mean yet it it had some play it just It wasn't quite adding up in the way that you might think it would with how good that is On paper for whatever reason, you know, it Definitely with the shadow queen. It was it was amazing. Yeah that having that flexibility that threat outstanding Yeah, I mean it's because retreat and charge is obviously still quite a limited ability, right? Like it's it's good. Don't get me wrong, but it is still We've now reviewed two armies in two weeks that can do this to everything in their army And it's like part of the problem is you kill so much. It's like, what are you retreating from? Yeah So like I got mine raise for you charge in kill that kari Come out of those three that are left somehow because they decided to waste their cp and mine raise you again go to that unit Just keep going. Yeah, that's sort of your play there. Yeah, okay Uh calibron, um, you get battle line shadow stonkers out of calibron, which is really cool. Cool And uh calibron just it gives you a teleport at the end of the movement phase. I mean, that's the easiest way I can talk about it Um, so you can teleport a unit, which is cool. Again very good ability That's that's kind of one of the things I was talking about that makes me underwhelmed on the previous teleport artifact I mean instead that would lock you into calibron if you what if you wanted this ability But this isn't the end of the teleportation like we said, we've also got things like mirror dance to swap around You know, you've also got shadow stonkers themselves that can pull teleportation tricks So it's it's around Yeah, I mean this is where you if you want to do that old classical warhammer fantasy battle version of Strike and fade strike and fade. That's where you sit And you can do it. I wouldn't worry the hero or like I have full faith and confidence. Let me tell you what I'm not worried at all about the corn book. Okay Now the reason I say that is because corn should be really easy Because it's we've talked about a hundred times in the show how it should play And what they've proven to me in writing the 3.0 books is that when an army has a strong core theme sea Nurgle Night haunt this book right fire slayers even I'm absolutely going to throw them in They're really good now at building rules to support that theming and and to make you feel like you're playing that army I cannot wait to see what the new corn book is. I think it's going to be just fantastic So it's a shame. We're not reviewing it right now. I would have loved that But here we are hopefully soon fingers crossed on On kelobron. I saw a cool list that martin wolf shared on twitter A shadow cane where he had all I think you a reinforced unit of shadow stonkers Then two other units filling out his battle line or avatars of cane And some number of heroes and like oh, I can actually see that being decent I mean there's an argument that maybe the shadow stonkers are a little overpriced, but we can get in that later Anyway, yeah avatars of cane Are fantastic in kelobron in terms of But you just harassment pieces distraction pieces They're you know spreading your opponent out They're amazing. Yeah, they're really great independent operators now So yeah kelobron really really cool. Obviously it lost the minus one to hit against shooting Unfortunately, but whatever. But yeah, whatever um the craith uh I mean chuck you've got to be happy about this one as a long time craith stan After a friendly craith sisters of of slafter unit has fought for the first time in the combat phase roll a die On a four plus that unit can fight for a second time in that phase the strike last effect applies to this so Amazing. I I just have two things to say Um as as the person who was the lead play tester on this book and the biggest fan of craith in the world Uh one, you're welcome two. This is the hardest the hardest we can get it All right, it's not going anywhere. This isn't turning into the next book But enjoy it like I I I love it. I am so excited for it. It's and said I'm glad that too. It's a strike last effect So it's not like it's immediate like what like the first book was amazing Yeah, yeah, because but on a four plus you can rely on it If you can keep your your models alive to do that extra punch and just get through whatever's left Yep No, it's exactly the way these fight twice things should be structured Yeah, like it it makes it because then the enemy still gets to go like if the enemy's still there They get to fight which you know like as much we joke about the damage There will often be situations where the enemy is still there and punching and again your girls are fragile. So it's cool Yeah, it's just the right way to implement these effects Yep, and I'm excited. That's why I now have 70 sisters of slaughter Even though I have 350 witch elves because Okay, well, you want this is my faction no matter what you have so I got to buy what you you want from me sure And then finally xanthar kai where blood sisters and blood stalkers become battle line So bow snakes and melee snakes And then each time a model in a friendly xanthar kai malusai unit is slain that model can fight before it's removed from play So they get they get death frenzy Cool Yeah, like again super great Blood sisters are Really really scary Terrifying now. Yeah. Yeah, and and like them getting an extra fight on death is uh real good It's super super duper good Now I'm almost positive this would not trigger crystal touch or whatever it's called that to us doing a mortal become It would if they haven't already crystal touched that turn Hmm When we get to it, I'll show you yeah, this has the crystal touch now is very specific wording around it So Depends on the sort of order of operations, but we'll we'll get there when we talk snakes. That sounds good. Yeah Uh, yes three plus last year strike you get to fight first the next turn next year In the next game you get to fight first Maybe okay, uh, cool Uh, right on let's keep going. There's a problem with your note spends my my book goes to path the glory yours goes to match play Yeah, it's no no. I didn't didn't went ahead and Is there that I didn't have that section? Uh No, did they send that to two plus stuff this the seed got that It must yeah, they must have they must have just immediately removed that section and just send it to dug for you. Yes Okay so, um Grand strats and battle tactics. I hate them. I don't care. I don't care about this part of the book um Chuck you want to talk about these at all anything in here you like? Uh, I I'm always a battle tactics. I'm kind of with you on that's a little too much extra to deal with But I'm always a big fan of grand strategies um It's it's You can take these if you want. I I still think well, I don't hate these I still think I want to just take what is zealous Or whatever the uh, keep a priest alive or keep a wizard alive like especially a priest I can I can get a hag queen out of out of jail and run away and hide in the terrain and keep that pretty easily um That's still something I lean towards more. Um So these two are like, you know I'm trying to think there's there is one Was it not I mean but conquered in the name of cane is doable depending on your army list Your you have either a cauldron or an avatar in enemy territory Depends a lot on the map But it's it's like basically you need one of those two things to survive and be on that side of the table Again in a book with with multiple different teleport options It's the kind of thing you could easily achieve if you wanted to Right when it comes to grand strats Because you could almost all but guarantee it if you were really right flying But with the price of those Two units though You kind of want them to be doing something not just hiding in the back to Then teleport over to get that or hope they survive to get your grand strategy. Sure So that's why I lean more towards to like keep a priest alive because I can sacrifice 100 points to hide Sure I mean bloodthirsty zealots I will also give a shout out to just because I fight with everything in this army I don't there's there's I like everything everything in this army fights I charge in hag queens to fight all the time. I'm like, yeah, let's do this Everybody's got a knife Everybody's got a knife. We're all fighting Yeah, you that's that's definitely an easy one to get a hold of for sure. Yeah, that's that's a really good pick Yeah, I can see a lot of people. Yeah doing that one. No, no, here's here's the one issue though If you're not going first if you if the enemy can snipe out one hero It still works because it says have fought during the battle or have been destroyed. Oh, we're having sorry. Sorry. Yeah, which is That's why I love it because if they snipe out your good lynchpin heroes, it's like, okay Just making my life easier to complete this thing So yeah, like bloodthirsty zealots. I think is actually the pick if you were wanting to pick a grand strat out of this book Um battle tactics. I don't care and I refuse to cover them use them if you think they're appropriate On the turn you can score them There should there should in no universe be six freaking battle tactics In a book Good lord, there are eight bases Yeah, this is 40k stratagems you These are easier than stratagems stratagems are in nightmare. These are usually stratagems, but they're still I'm still with you Battle tactics are not my favorite thing in this edition. Yeah, just the like the idea of playing in a tournament where everyone's faction has Six however many battle tactics. No, we can make this so much easier. Here you go, Tyler That's a nightmare to me. I mean you're trying to you're trying to deny battle tactics So you're gonna have to learn all of these battle tactics. You know No, no, guys. We can just take the average AOS player Okay Now say at the start of every turn you have to choose from one of 14 different things Does that seem like in the abstract that's it I've told you nothing else that's happening Just there will come an inflection point at the start of your turn where you will have 14 Potentially valid options that you must appraise the battlefield Look forward into your turn and your plans and then decide which one is the correct one to do Does that seem like a reasonable mental load for the average warhammer player? No Oh, see here's here's the thing that I'm going to do too with this. I'm going to slim it down for you real quick You're not going to worry about execution is called Because relying on your high relying on a dice roll to get that is is not something anyone's going to take Um, I don't care if you're haggenar or kelton are You can't reliably like okay. Maybe maybe maybe if you're playing a chaos unit Sure, but like you're probably not going to take that because not everyone's going to run those armies Um, you're not going to do unexpected attack Maybe if you're caliber on and you feel like you can actually make an eight-inch charge sure go ahead Like but I'm not going to rely my my points on an eight-inch charge Tied of blades. Um I'm most my stuff dying so Like really quickly I'm going to look at clash of arms and cool to light Yeah, that's especially cool to light cool to light if you take the right kanari you get that immediately. That's fine Sure, but that's that I have a problem with that the word that's an autocomplete Yeah, because they can they can drop and move automatically now as we'll talk about So really another autocomplete when I said and then with the clash of arms even it's like well, what kind of army are you running? Sure, if you don't have the other I check the other concerning part about this that I find The whole if two or more of those units are which helps the sister slaughter score one additional victory point. Yep We're creating a lack of parity within these books We're already getting into hashtag horde meta because you know tyler There's going to be other stuff in the ghb If that's if it if it goes to horde meta You know, there's going to be things that say like if you score these battle tactics with a reinforced or double reinforced units Score one extra victory point. You know, that's how it's going to shape out Here's the thing too with clash arms here where that additional victory points can come into play If you're not running just the snake bill oops all snakes, um, which helps us their slaughter You get the run in charge So getting three of those in isn't hard Like you're even much easier chance than you do say the unexpected attack of rolling Teleporting and trying to get an eight inch because you have plus one Yeah, so I just hate I hate the idea as a just a design standpoint of having additional points being eligible on built-in faction specific battle tactics, of course Yeah, I'm obviously gonna we're gonna have that but it but also Right, but this is just another lever to pull to try and and get away from snakes a little bit with Oops all snake. Yeah in a way. I mean, that's it's maybe not the best lever, but it's it's a lever That's fine. I would hope that the ghp ones will do that to some degree because obviously things like like bow snakes are terrible at completing You know often battle tactics if it's if it's anything to do with moving, right like you you could You could have this same thing Right and it wouldn't even need to say which elves it would just say charge move and like bow snakes would still be bad at it Right because you don't have a bunch of bow snakes you want to charge Like that's not what you're doing with those girls. So anyways enough of this talk of these things The the next battle pack should just say base Battle tactics only or if you're a to go ahead and write that into your into your battle pack for your tournament Uh, only allow players to use the eight base battle tactics. So we're all in the same page every army has equity And we can all actually somewhat keep these options straight in our freaking heads. Thank you And good night. Okay, um core battalions Yeah, they're fine Yeah, I I I I wish they chose a different one besides shadow patrol But that's about it From the old ones. I don't care about Shadow patrol at all, but I guess if you want to guarantee cruel delight takes shadow patrol Uh, yeah, not too excited by them Yeah, I mean, you know the Viperate guards fine if you want a little option for Um, if you're not too concerned about drops and you want an option for magnificent It's fine if you're gonna have snakes like if you're going for that snakey snake thing We gotta have Marathi Which I don't generally build so These are both fine They're fine That's my answer. Why would you take magnificent when you just do warlord? And there's There's there's not yeah, there's not a one drop there So there's like there's no reason that I can tell to take magnificent over warlord But yeah, it's just kind of these are often so strange. Yes. Is uh, these core battalions. Yeah Yeah, I mean Junefire warlocks, huh? All right Cool Okay Units Let's get to the good part Let's get to the stuff all right So Units we're gonna start of course With the big girl herself marathi kane And her alternative self snake snake lady Is a shadow queen? Um, okay important stuff about marathi. She's basically still marathi We're gonna talk like if you're familiar with old marathi She's basically the same thing She's a war master. She knows three spells or she can cast three spells. She can unbind two spells She's not triple unbinding general. Yep She has the whole one soul two bodies thing now there is a There is a weird exception to this right now. We'll cover it very briefly She still has worship through bloodshed, which is the Pick a unit and fight or shoot in the hero phase. So she still has that oops And her big girl is still the same two bodies blah blah blah. She can fly. She still buffs canary and malusai So on and so forth Okie dokie and she actually has neg two rend. There we go. Yes. She's settled it She's in a good stable mindset after becoming a goddess. She knows what damage she does and how much rend she does She sharpened up the the spear Heart render now has the correct amount of rend We're good to go Okay relevant things about marathi One she's 680 points, which does represent a slight bump from where she was previously plus 20 correct She lost her plus one to cast which is not an insignificant thing right Okay Good call. I think No, I agree. It is a good call Mm-hmm um it You know, I mean on the same side everybody was walking around going Oh, a lauriel is completely useless because she doesn't have a bonus to cast She's a god. Why doesn't she have a bonus to cast? I didn't hear those same a lauriel stands coming out in Uh in protest of marathi losing her plus one to cast they they weren't showing up on the picket line Uh saying where where what how do we undo this injustice? Whereas maybe it's because we shouldn't actually give out many bonuses to cast in this game We should just let people roll 2d6 Every daughter's game player That saw she lost the plus one just went fair Pretty much. She's still she's still not 700. Okay fair. That's fine No, that's not grand alliance death. Yes. They are they are two different units Uh, okay, they can move around independently and do whatever they want their towns be drops They just are purchased together as a little bundle They're a bundle deal Uh, okay Worship through bloodshed went from holy within 24. It's now holy within 18. Hmm. So that's another little subtle change So the range Small change, but good. Yeah, basically she's on the normal rules now effectively. Yeah So it's the minus one to to hit rolls the marathi kings I think that is pretty useful. Yep All right, let's quickly talk about the controversy. Oh boy Okay, here we go So as written right now Technically you can spike marathi off the board in one round Okay rules as written rules as written Let's look at the iron heart of cane. Let's begin our journey here quickly. I'm not going to spend a long time on this No more than three wounds and or mortal wounds can be allocated to this unit in the same turn Once three wounds and or mortal wounds have been allocated to this unit in the same turn Not counting any wounds that were negated Any further wounds and mortal wounds that will be allocated to this unit are negated Now that last use of the word negated is really important Okay, because They switched that from the word ignored and went to the standard Uh usage of negated Should be has no effect. I think it's the new words. It should be now. Correct Uh, the problem with that is That first it raises the question about what happens if she gets hit by something that ignores wound negation of which There are multiple things in the game Now it's possible. We could appeal back up to the first sentence and say you can't even allocate to them Okay And and say okay, so that's not actually a problem because we can't actually get past the allocation step Because it's said because the allocation step caps it at three because of the first sentence Fine So sig vault can't just smack her around Now marathi came Let's go over here to one soul two bodies If the shadow queen is on the battlefield wounds and mortal wounds that would be allocated to this unit are instead allocated to the shadow queen And have no effect on this unit wounds and more mortal wounds allocated to the shadow queen in this way Cannot be negated Oopsie doodle Okay Um now once again, we could make an appeal to that first sentence. Maybe Okay But nonetheless it still raises the problem because they can't be negated Uh And so negate gate This is going to be FAQed That look you can think whatever you want about this. You can hate marathi's iron heart of cane rule Fine, it doesn't bother me any. I think it's a good rules design space I understand that some people have problems. This is something hay well rips on all the time I think it's a perfectly fine rule to exist on a model like this. I think it is what separates her and makes her feel like a god Um, especially now that she has ascended into godhood. Um, I wish every god I want every god unit to have some interesting unique ability that literally only appears on their scroll and is a unique challenge For them and the fact that she actually dies more than many of the other god models because I've never not killed marathi in a game Because she's actually quite easy to kill Is Like tells me. Yeah, sure. She doesn't die in turn one two. She she generally dies to the bottom of two or top of three Yes, that is the majority of the game Sometimes um, but you know, I've never had a problem going up against her You just know what she has know that limitation and constrain your resources accordingly I think it's an interesting play challenge that exists on this one model so Cool, if you don't like it, that's also fine like what you like Uh, let's say we do three damage from ranged attacks to little marathi. Does she get her six up ward before? Allocating anything to the shadow queen. No, it it works how it used to where it just automatically passes Right. So you don't on the past the shadow queen would not get the ward Correct. I think we're acting because they cannot be negated We're acting we get the armor save but she won't get a ward save it passes and then you don't get that's how it works In the gold book too, so Because the allocation is happening before the ward save. Yes You have to allocate to a unit to roll the ward save If we don't because it's because we never hit that step We can't and then by the time we get to shadow queen We would then say We would then trigger the cannot be negated text, which is what they were trying to stop Like I get why they were doing this right The problem is then they they didn't like nobody read these two scrolls back to back and like somebody clocked this Basically day one and was like oops. Oops all all berries. You can just sort of theoretically Plow a bunch of wounds into marathi cane into baby marathi and just lift big marathi in a turn It doesn't matter. It's going to be FAQ'd I would bet my bottom dollar on it. So Like their intention here in writing 62 paragraphs of text on this rule Was not to have the like weird giga brain. Oh, but if I do this but then this this is my reading of the rules Like it's obviously an unintentional rules interaction. Yeah, all right It's just oops. We use negated more times than we should have that's it. Yeah, expect the FAQ Uh, and yes, that is correct. Joseph wounds directed at the shadow queen do get the word Yes, but I mean it's not going to matter in most cases because you're going to run up against the the um The cap at three long before she word saves herself out of anything Okay, so I note on marathi I was having a conversation with a friend about how this army doesn't have many Need characters anymore In some ways that's that fits the lore of marathi that that's the case I hope they have some plans to there was a little bit in the narrative of the battle tone about uh, you know some Like something like crones or something. I can remember what they were called chucky might know. Oh, yeah, the the the Like the chrome blades like the ones who don't agree with marathi And that's like and also like some of them some of the highest hag queens like the ones that lead the temples are called blood queens And I read the lore today because I read I read to to catch up on all of it Um, they drop a lot of named Just characters throughout the book like we did. Yeah, queen's hag queens. I go atrix's um I hope to say because that's the one thing I would always Felt like luster it just in age of sigmar was the lack of lieutenant level characters No, at the same time and you've got mogwath and that's it Yeah, yeah, and it's like I mean sure that has allowed people like me Like I made te rathi other people have made their own characters and that it allows it to have more of a presence I think and the overall scheme and people like are aware of it But like yeah, I just I would like more lieutenant level characters Sure for sure. So our summary on the changes to marathi Let's talk about marathi and the bowsnakes here. Let's let's transition to that Lost her plus one to cast Went slightly up in points Her command ability shortened slightly in range and she went to the standard as pointed out. Yes, the hero is correct She did go to the standard new monster table, which is four brackets instead of five Right. So just like every other monster they've printed in third edition. It now has the new more generous wounds table I do seven wounds for for the first bracket Correct. Yep And so All in all Here's my answer marathi and the bowsnakes So here's I'm just gonna launch into into this. Let's just do this right now. Here we go. Um, marathi and the bowsnakes was already a bad list It just was Like it wasn't a winning list It was a now was it a pretty feel bad list sometimes. Sure I don't disagree with that And my ultimate problem is I still think we should have made a change Like we should have moved the snakes to trigger on the wound roll or something So I'm coming down on the side of there should have been some change That there wasn't however Competitively, it was a bad list casually. It's an annoying list, which is sort of the worst place to be in Because it can cause npe but not However, there are a lot of other incentives not to play this in the current book Because of how because of which elves and sisters getting way more interesting and way a lot of ways And because melee snakes becoming way way way more interesting Um, you which are both make for much more flexible resistant uh varied competitive armies um the out of scroll update where you just give out A ton of victory points if you lose if you when you if you get tabled Sure, it's which is gone now obviously, but you know Right. She's she you know Marathi's off the list everything, but um But the In my estimation they were going here like in their minds and I'm not a mind reader. I'm just guessing But in their minds they said, okay, let's try this with some soft incentives slight pump You know slight bump in points get rid of her cast bonus So she's not as good as the centerpiece to power out mind raiser and you need some other tools And make the other stuff better so people want So people are more incentivized to play the other lists That's my take on it I still would have rather saw this seen the snakes go to wound. Okay, tyler. What's your take? Yeah, I mean, I don't think I can get there with you on the idea that it was a bad list I we've had some discussion about it. I have a sense of what you're saying. I mean we had plenty of uh good players who knew how to operate of what a pattern that has always been good in this game And knew how to extend the life of murathi a little bit And to keep the 15 snake bows operating At least through through three rounds with the double tap And you know teleport screens or screens in general. I mean Dayton just went 5-0 Uh, if I he's not really been running a part of all points He's not really been running the rat in the bow snakes. He just went 5-0 the other weekend with it So I mean by just the numbers. It's a good list. It's been within bounds. It's not a list that's been tearing up the field A lot of people are familiar with how to play it nowadays. Yeah, I think it's generally fine I mean to to do a old worm a weekly nugget. It's fine Uh, there I agree. There's other soft incentives, which is nice A lot of people know how to play against murathi now It would be amazing. I mean this might be an opportunity I've been so I was talking to you about this Just if you love murathi You want to play murathi you do you that's fantastic. You love bow snakes. Cool rock on Let's we we're all familiar with what daughters of cane have been doing the last 18 months, right? Yeah, for the most part. I mean if we looked at the data and the lists that have been taken to tournaments It's murathis and murathis and murathis and bow snakes. Like that's what we've had for the last 18 months Let's Can we get some let's mix it up? Let's see what people can do without murathi without the bow snakes I mean there's so so many things with this book I think a lot of other opportunities to go 4-1-5-0 with cool lists that don't involve that I would love to see more of that in the community Rather than just going to these old chest nuggets that we've seen for 18 months. All right ran over I think I know that's a good rant. So I'll rant. I think a lot of what um The issue was here too is like one it was a good powerful Trick Wasn't good trick every time I played that list. I felt great for two turns and then I lost everything And I was like, okay. It wasn't great after that um, but it was also In the in the mindset of financial ends That's probably your cheapest way to build this list It's also time time commitment. I you can paint snakes again much better than you can paint much quicker than you can paint A horde of witch elves. I think that has a lot to do with it But now you know like sure people are still going to take it because they don't want to all I don't want to paint Tony witch elves is like, okay. Well cry me river. I don't care about that because you you know what I've done um But the incentive it has shifted. So will we still see this? Yes, but we're going to see it from the people who are too lazy or financially unable to shift out of it Which is fine. I yeah, yeah, you do you enjoy it. You enjoy it to move up bow snakes a little in points Um, you know that could have also been another viable way to go here There are also I will say if you want to the other oh the other soft incentive we should discuss here is if you want to get the Snakes as battle line bow snakes you either need to be in xanthark high a sub faction that isn't doing anything for your bow snakes Or you have a very soft general because you have to have a malusai general She's the only general that can the malusai iron scales the only general that can make Your bow snakes actually battle line on her own um So again, should there have been changes? Yeah, I still think yes because tyler the reason I say it's not the competitive choice Is because the existence of bellicor and idk basically render the list unable to win tournaments Like yes, i'm not saying sometimes you won't dodge those matchups. I'm saying that right those two units put it out of consistency Okay, those those two things Right, however, if you're not playing one of those two armies That doesn't mean you had a great time to fight against them Right, like that's why I say it can be competitively the wrong choice But casually a bad game Right because that that it has hard counters that just shut it down In the meta which will stop it in often from from going to the top of the tournament I feel like we saw that in the data against it The data reflected that really well for for a while. Yeah in terms of the See a lot of three two and four one with daughters of kane And yeah, anyway, we've got to get sidetracked by discussion. Yeah That's why I say you should rely on things like win rates and and five o's and things like that just to determine What's properly balanced like sometimes we can just intuit? Hey, actually these things have a Sort of instead of a bell curve distribution. They end up with a you know an inverse distribution. That's not what you want Right where it's like hard stop over here You know, uh Bullet train on this side. That's not great Right So okay Uh, don't worry joseph if you like spear snakes If you like melee snakes, it's a good day for you. We're gonna get to them there It's a great day for it's a great day for melee snake players like like myself um, okay Blood rack shrine I'm so in for this thing. I love this thing. I love this unit. I'm all about this unit Um Yeah, I I don't know what else to say. It's great. Um, it's still largely like what it was before 13 wounds five up save I will say most of this army is just a five up save If you if you like the shields Where you have the options to take them Sure, um, otherwise it's fives and sixes. So I mean it is a very fragile army For glee. They're all italian Uh, the blood rack shrine still a single cast wizard double unbinder. She'll actually really like I know that's so silly, but I quite like it. The aura of agony ability is still pretty dumb but the You know her ability to do mortal wounds on the impact and her stare are still fantastic and I love them And she's still got a great spell Um, and now she has a new ability that I absolutely love Uh, is malusai kin Oh Buddy so it should be stated. She is not a malusai. She is a medusai She does not have the malusai keyword in any way Okay But at the start of your combat phase you can pick one friendly malusai unit Holy within 12 of this unit add one to the number of the current battle round when determining the ability is gained By that unit from the blood rights trait until the end of that phase This ability and other similar abilities are cumulative So if you've been keeping track It's turn one, but we're in hagnar. So it's turn two But I sacrament of blood them. So it's turn three, but I'm malusai kin to them. So it's turn four Good stuff I like that it's phase dependent So you're not stacking right so that there is an opportunity for more clap back Your opponent has a turn that comes around let's say you run into me events with 15 melee snakes Well, you may not be on your five up ward when my turn comes around, right? Because some of these things are going to kick off. I think the when we get into witchbrew it might be limited to that turn This is limited to that phase. So there's only I think hagnar and sacrament of blood that are essentially always up So sacrament of blood into your next hero phase and hagnar all the time. So anyhow, there's some subtleties that I think Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, no, you're absolutely right. This one is your combat phase, right? So you got to pay attention to stuff like that. Yep. Yep. And personally, I'm I am a fan of aura of agony I know it's early on but just nice to get a little extra chip damage going through here in your hero phase um Bloodwreck stare is also good. I I actually prefer Yeah, I mean, it's wonderful. I I mean, but I also don't want to sacrifice this unit to use it on leash How like I do the one on foot, but uh, we'll get into that when we get there But no, I'm a I'm a big fan of this unit and actually I only have one of these and I want to get two now Oh, don't worry, Joseph. We don't have to use the general trait. We can we can we've got other options Uh Okay, right on Yeah, this girl's 200 points. I love her for two points. Like I'm in I'm in like Flynn All the time and as we assumingly again, as I said as I said a hundred times in the show Transition to hashtag horde meta. I think the stonks on the Bloodwreck shrine are only going up and up and up Also hashtag totem Hashtag totem. Yes, you can 18 inch command ability. Yeah, absolutely It's a good design again It's another maybe a little softness in of where you can leave marathi at home And run a bloodwreck shrine to have some synergy with your melee snakes in particular, which is great. Yeah Yep Absolutely All right, the malusai iron scale. So this is the hero I should have added this here, but I forgot to put the text in But the malusai iron scale is the hero that also makes the snakes battle line If if she is your general Let me make sure I'm absolutely correct on that. I'm like 99 on that but I didn't I didn't write it down Which I hate. Yes general is malusai. Okay. So yep. Thank you Just wanted to make absolutely sure myself um The important part about her is that she lost her sort of all the time five up ward and instead now has a five up spell ignore right so uh, she still has her whole like Uh, if any enemy models are slain plus one to the attacks characteristic of malusai, which is a super cool ability that almost never triggers It's very hard to trigger. I had this accidentally triggered one of my games because somebody let Somebody like piled into me and basically had her in combat When I also had snakes in combat and so I was like, all right Well, they're gonna charge me and fight first and they didn't kill her So then I went up and fought and killed something and I was like, hey, all right way to go I did it and it happened But it's very rare. You never bet on that Feels like I mean, maybe would it be too powerful to give this the thing that they've been doing with a A lot of little heroes, right? Maybe it started with nergal You fight with a lord of blights and then you get to pick another unit to fight Yeah to pull her in. Yeah, it would have been I honestly think it would have been the better the better ability here If she pulled the snakes in Uh, because you're still exposing her She's probably your general So you're still exposing her in combat and then she still has to kill something to then get the benefit for the immediate next activation With your your melee snakes. Yeah, I feel like that's a a decent balance But this is is not going to matter as as always for the most part Yeah, if you charge her in they could easily attack and kill her pretty quickly And your your best bet is to charge her in on the side of something but chances are your Melee snakes have already taken up all the space anyway, and you want them to get every single blade and they can Yep And she has her she has the turn to crystal ability because all the malus I have the turn to crystal ability So that's why she does this weird two up one mortal wound thing It's just because the medusa haven't it'd be weird if she was a malus I who didn't have it. So that's all that is Um, the blood rec medusa on foot. Uh, I also don't hate at 130. She's a bit expensive for the six wounds for 130 points um, that's that's She's she's ratioed pretty hard um, but I do like having uh One on foot and one on the cauldron just because that's how I you asked about my list That's part of my list tylan one on foot and one on Cauldron and the reason for that is pretty simple I want to be able to malusa. I can two two different snake units Right. Yeah, that's at a cheaper price. So She's also another cheap stare things like that So you can kind of hide her behind stuff and if things charges in you can you can unleash from her things like that Yeah, I'm not sure if it's a great trick trick. Um events. I know I used it on you Uh in a game we played once but I if I have one of these I always keep it around the shadow queen So people want to charge the shadow queen. They're gonna have to suffer an unleash hell before they get in with this with You know It's just a nice thing to do and then you know If it's a horde and he rolled fairly well you take out most of it and now they realize they're in combat with the shadow queen Yeah, yeah, sure Like it's it's a neat little trick. It's it's it's getting kind of to the point where the points aren't worth it But uh, you know if you have one keep her nearby and have some fun with it if it's a horde army or facing Yep I also quite like having the two medusa just because I like having two different sources of enfeebling foe Which I do think is just a really good spell because minus one to wound is a really good debuff And you don't have a lot of defenses in this army. So actually minus one to wound is is it's a good defensive ability Cast valley cast valley five. So yeah We skipped over the melissa iron scales wrapped with scat born that command ability got changed used to be 2d6 now It's just a oh, yeah, it's just right. It's gonna be it. Yeah Yeah, just run a charge. Yeah run charge charge. So yeah, you could so essentially it's it's a more defined threat range For your melee snakes, especially Yeah, I've heard a ton of speculation by the way on the fact it says this unit can attempt to charge Even if it ran or shot in the same turn and like why would or shot be in there because nothing about shooting prevents you from charging Does that is this future proofing? Does this mean we're gonna see some big change? Uh, my answer is no, I think somebody just wrote that and nobody caught it is honestly my answer Secondly not wrong Yes It is it is correct text Um, but yeah, uh run charges. You're absolutely right. It is actually a super valid thing on her. Yeah It's uh, it's a defined 14 inches plus a charge roll threat range whereas previously it was It's scarier because if someone pops high on the 2d6 you kind of have to take that into account in the threat range So I do like that. It's it's been stabilized a little bit more Especially with how scary melee melee snakes are now. So but yeah, it's still quite good Yep, okay All right Marguerite She's 185 points And yep, she's a hag queen Um With the bodyguard I mean, I don't want to talk about her abilities. I want to talk about it on the hag queen She's a hag queen with a bodyguard. So here's the question. I'm just gonna ask you guys is she worth it Oh, she's way too much Chuck think No, because I also don't usually run hagnar and she's locked to that Yeah, um, I do run hagnar and I don't care, but uh, it's yeah I mean my answer is no just because I don't like I don't I the package isn't terrible for what you're getting Because you're getting like weird two wound witch elves basically Um But I still just don't think it's actually worth it. But there you go. Yeah, not not like it used to be when it originally came out and it was Ridiculous. Yes way too cheap I'm not sure what you're referencing there. I don't I hope we didn't tell anybody that it certainly was our intention. All right Uh, also, this is up on I think last chance to buy So, oh, yeah, because although you want it for conversions because I have this already But I bought a second just to make sure I have a conversion fodder for the future They are beautiful models. Like my god. Is this a gorgeous set? Like they are You could buy this and Well, so you can get the high gladiatrix out of that says there's a slaughter easily Obviously mogwaith can just be a standard hag queen and then yeah Yep Okay hag queen on cauldron of blood Uh, 270 points again much like it was it's there. There is some small changes here So for example with the the ladies on top the ladies Hello ladies, uh, their attacks have been Combined into one profile. So, um Basically, you've got the blade of cane and then on the we're gonna see the same thing on the slaughter queen as opposed to like This sword and this sword or knife or whatever. It's just one profile You still got the avatar sword. This brings us to our first chance to say yay The avatar doesn't need to be woken up anymore. He's just awake now. Yay It's a good change um The hag queen is always this sort of less damaging version although not by a huge amount than the slaughter queen relevant about This unit and the slaughter queen on cauldron. Let's just talk about the relevant things here on both of these Um, they are both totems because they've got a giant totem on the back Namely the big avatar guy um You add one to chanting roles For friendly daughters of cane priests wholly within nine inches of any friendly units with this ability Uh, so basically that's going to be true for The hag queen on cauldron the slaughter queen on cauldron and the regular avatar guy on foot All broadcast this aura of plus one to chant. That's why I say often you will be on twos for the chance you need to land um So that's a super good buff You still have blood shield. It's still plus one to save for reasons. I can't fathom, but here we are You want me to read the lore texts for you? I mean why I understand I understand the reasons in the lore Okay It just shouldn't be thematically Uh, and the important part about her is um, she has a silly prayer that is bad Well, it's no it's better Because he used to have to hide dice Yeah, I it's true. You did used to have to play the hide dice. It's improved. It's improved Still bad, but it's improved. It went from a one to like a three, but it's still a bad prayer. It doesn't matter though Uh, you're like she has her witchbrew and this is our first chance to talk about witchbrew At the start of your hero phase you can pick one friendly daughters of cane unit Holy within 12 of this unit to drink the witchbrew seeing she can she can throw that witchbrew Quite a distance out there. She can really get some some heft on it Uh, a unit cannot drink witchbrew more than once in the same phase If you do so add one to the number of the current battle round with determining the abilities gained by that unit From the blood rights battle trait until the end of that turn. So again speaking to what you were talking about tyler Uh, you know in that turn and then on the enemy turn it's going to go away Right or at the end of the combat phase the malusia ability is going to go away, right? Um, however, if you're keeping track Turn one Hagnar turn two saccoon of blood Turn three malusia turn four witchbrew turn five, baby Going in hot with that five up warden all them benes Um, so at any rate that's that's the hag queen on cauldron chuck. What do you think of the hag queen on cauldron? Oh, I love her the hag queen cauldron has always been my favorite of the two cauldrons Uh for the slaughter hag queen just because the fact that it also does the witchbrew um Let's say I like the touch. I I kind of It's gonna sound silly. I like the touch of death I like the old version better because no one ever knew what the heck you were doing When you started hiding dice behind your back it still didn't do anything wasn't worthwhile, but the I'm going to give the prayers. I want to get off to my priestesses on cauldrons and they're all getting a plus one all the time. So I'm getting much easier buffs off to change the witchbrew As much as I love just ignoring battle shock Uh after you play this army a few times and you realize just how glass cannon you you are You don't care that much. I mean then then there's cp So you can always save it if you need to and you know, that's not a problem But I like that witchbrew is back to being automatic and I like what it does a lot better And I know you're doing like the haggen are but like, okay, we'll take drake to ganeth You can still be on turn four Yeah, sure very quickly and like, you know In with the style of rmb iron i'm very fragile anyway, so i'm not really worried about that five up I expect to die If I don't kill what I touch so turn four is enough for me turn one if i'm honest with you But um, yeah, haggen on cauldrons blood I try to fit two in my lists as much as possible because I like to have in two anvils, so My drink just exploded all over me good times tyler talk about this while I get a paper towel Yeah, sure That check when I was running daughters came what stood out with this piece I mean just kind of conveyed it, you know the first couple of battle rounds. It's a buff piece utility piece ample piece They were keeping it back and then it can really start to shine in those rounds three four and five, right? opponent's army has been little down a little bit It can function as a hammer, especially as you layer buffs on it By that point in the game you will have been layering buffs on it, you know all a sequel And yeah, I could put out a good amount of damage So I love love this piece not to mention I put arcane tome on her put on arcane mastery all of a sudden I I I got prayers. I got spells I can do whatever I want Absolutely Can you imagine this and going 16 inches with fly? It's it's kind of scary No, totally. Yeah, I love the idea of seed of shadows on this or this letter queen on cauldron Yeah, that's that's pretty sexy pretty pretty exciting Uh the hero are only for endless spells. Um, yeah the You know The hag queen honestly has always been my my less favorite just because I'm I'm all I'm all I'm all gas no breaks and she doesn't she doesn't hit hard enough for me Um, that's that's the problem Um, but I like the changes here. I think they're good. It's a good unit. No doubt about it I'm not coming down the hag queen again a solid choice I mean the internal but I don't know if we've said it yet But the internal balance on this book feels really strong to me. There's a lot of different units I mean most units we're going by we're like, yeah, sure. That's worth it Lord the look worth a look worth a look worth a look worth a look, right all these times Yep, uh It's probably slanesh, uh, is he uh Zanias It's probably slanesh because all slanesh models are annoying to put together okay Uh hag queen on foot it's 110 points and she has witch brew and her touch death It's you're buying a model for witch brew. That's what she's here for Right Which in the old days of running a bunch of hordes and there was no reinforcements I grabbed a lot of these Um, now I don't usually I usually I'd rather put them on cauldron But my outbreak of slaughter queen on foot, but uh, yeah, I'm so glad they're they're still price reasonably um I used to put this be my choice to put venom in the ginger on because I'm witch brewing witch brewing And then I would pop d6 mortal wounds with my craith artifact, but uh, those days are gone sadly, so Yeah, I mean hag queen's fine. She's squishy. That's the thing, right? You're taking her to get witch brew and she's just rather squishy target. So Yeah, and she's not there to activate the avatar as the babysit mechanic either now. So, yeah Uh autumn, I think you're legitimately allowed to play that music anytime you want You don't have to you don't have to worry about bringing 50 spirit hose, but you can if you want all right Slaughter queen on cauldron of blood. I mean look at this lady Look at her She's here to do the business. Okay. She's not here for this nonsense Uh, I like this girl a lot 315 points is a bit expensive, but uh, still worth it in my mind Again totem all that like we said before Um, she has her death sword and blade of cane put together Um for her attacks Um, and then her girls have their little sianca just like the other one and the avatar sword Uh, what I like about her I'll explain why I like this why I think this model is worth 45 points more than the hag queen even though she doesn't have the um The witch brew So first of all, this is my crown of woe wearer. Let me just say that In my list The she still has the chanting bonus she still has the impact she still has the blood shield Um, she can unbind a spell which is cool. I like tons of unbinds. I think it's fine Uh She has orgy of slaughter the command ability which is a good command ability It's you know melee only but allows you to fight in a hero phase You can get you out of trouble pretty quickly. Absolutely. Yeah So let's me take another bite at the apple in case I didn't happen to kill something Which is cool. It's your hero phase, but still But the reason I like this girl Is because of dance of doom Absolutely. Yep. Her prayer is so improved so good. It's wild So then that's it's literally the whole reason I love this girl if she didn't have dance of doom I wasn't in on this war scroll as I was reading it for the points until I got to the last ability I was like no I'm back on board Yeah, a number of number positive consequences and yeah, how you can write a list and play play the army with her Yep So dance of doom is a prayer that has an answer value of three Of course, that's actually a two because she's within nine inches of herself And if answered the strike first effective applies to this unit in the following combat phase And there's a notable interesting Result of that if you're on the if you're on the shni if you're on the turn You can then charge her in along with your snakes One of the one of the downsides to daughters was always like fighting with multiple units because the hitback because all of your Units are made of paper basically, right? Um, but because she goes in in your turn does some decent damage She's she's a damaging model. You can buffer up with most of the stuff we've talked about not all the most and So she fights because she has asf And then it moves to the normal time to choose and you get to still like you're still first choice because it's your turn So now i'll pick my snakes So it effectively gives you a double activation for your first sort of On your turn basically, right? Um, yeah, love it Love it. Love it. Love it again only in your turn because it relies on the prayer And it's only that following combat phase that it applies So very much just like like knight haunt. We described last week It is a glass can and the army it's going to hit hard on its turn But it's it fears the hitback because a lot of its abilities go away right, but if you have Sisters of slaughter guaranteeing that six inch pylon you have her making the charge in cp if you need it on her She's going to fight first. They're going to fight And then if you somehow get a hag gladiatrix nearby too You don't care Like it's you're not you're not going to be hit back. They're whatever you're touching is dead Yeah Exactly. Yeah, you guys just laid out the the potential The trio with this a hammer and sisters of slaughter That's pretty exciting. Yeah, just in terms of if you can set that up and the the damage you could do With that in terms of then not having clat back coming your way. That could be pretty amazing. Yeah I don't know it seems strange that sword did not count for at least one extra attack Standardized it's four attacks. That's why I know yeah equal like that seems odd. That should be worth at least an attack Oh, but yeah, no great great war scroll Uh, I agree the slaughter queen is quite sensibly dressed by the standards of uh by the standards of the daughters of king She's dressed for warm weather or cold weather. Yeah, absolutely Uh, okay, so yeah, I like the slaughter queen a lot. She's she's she's a pick for me But I get it if people would pick the hag queen instead like I I get it Slotter queen on foot is the same thing but with a much worse frame because she doesn't have the avatar Behind her and stuff like that. She just has the commandability to dance This is my first like hardcore skip unit the slaughter queen on foot. I just at 130 points If there was enough If there's enough If there's an item to make her a nice assassin piece maybe but also we have the high gladiatrix Who's a better hero assassin piece than what she could ever be now? So Yeah, I I think I agree. Yeah, I mean, I'm just I'm passing on the slaughter queen on foot. So I mean, yeah, she's gonna be less dependent in my mind like You're leaning into witch elves and sister slaughter. Let's say and you've got a couple wagons You may not have the points to make one of those a slaughter queen on cauldron So you might just add her in to give that potential for or to slaughter your your bricks of witches or sisters Uh, so just from a point standpoint, I could see her potentially making some less But yeah, I'm doing it with you guys. Yeah, I mean, she's She's few wounds and fragile for a good amount of points with not very good abilities. So that's the challenge Now the high gladiatrix, okay, this is where I come to a problem I'm not gonna like I don't want to celebrate something that shouldn't be like this This girl should not be in any universe 90 points Get out of here with these points. This is just the throwback to the original hag queen. Yeah, that's all this is It's a throwback. I mean that those are popular now The um Like the high gladiatrix is a great scroll at six wounds She's got one more wound the like the slaughter queen or the hag queen Still on a five up save her attacks are fine They're fine Like she heard the plus two attacks command ability because she has two weapon profiles will you know easily apply to both as as you had stated Um Her dance of death is cool because she has the sisters slaughter jump into combat thing if she wants to She can kind of do it more safely or whatever. She has killing stroke, which Okay, like it's not very likely you kill somebody but if you if you get a hero down to a couple wounds Sure That's all that's happened to us It's all it's happened in games where you get a hero down to a couple wounds because of a fight They're not quite dead Then she can be like ha ha And got them Yep, right pairing it with uh crystal touch potentially with uh with the blood sisters the melee snakes Sure Yeah, but that's but none of that's why you're taking her you're taking her for paragona slaughter One of the most incredible buff abilities in the in the entire army Melee weapons used by witch elves and sisters slaughter units wholly within 12 Of any friendly units of this ability have a two wound characteristic of three plus instead of four plus and a rend characteristic of neg one instead of slash dash whatever um I do not like that. She's this good at this price point that is wrong I mean obviously she's a pick She's too cheap She's just I've two I have two in every list Sure is too cheap. Yeah 110 in the arena of shades wasn't that the point value? Yeah, I don't remember I think it was 110. Yeah, maybe 115 Yeah Yeah Yeah, I would I would expect her points to go up first in anything else in this book Yeah 100 i mean she should easily Be had queen price and honestly, I think she's better Like well, she's yeah She has her her ability paragona slaughters is useful as previous the original version of witch brew And like said, this is just automatic if if this paragon of slaughter maybe was Three up there for a four. Okay. Yeah, that make it cheaper because it's not guaranteed but guaranteed that is Pretty ridiculous Yeah Yeah, I mean like Is she good? Yes, too good at this point value. Is she too good at 130 points where she should probably be like honestly The points values on this page should swap Okay That's my answer Like the slaughter queen's probably worth 90 if you're ever going to take her I'm not even sure at 90 I'd ever take her but at least it's a more reasonable place for her to be Uh the high gladiatrix that buff. Let's not kid ourselves. It's an incredibly stupidly good buff It breaks one of the core rules of aos 3.0 because it lets you get more than actual plus one to wound it's it's Two different buffs because I mean the brand is So it's a weird cherry that's bigger than the ice cream cone on top of the fact that it's not just giving you a plus one It's actually changing your to roll. It's changing what you're what you're too Too wound is which also too wound bonuses don't exist easily in this game, right? And she has a super version of it. So, yeah, I mean like my answer is Swap the points on these two these two scrolls. That's the correct move So whenever we move points on dock, let's see that happen Now they they they won't because they have it in their head that if they move points too far will all be upset Does a sunk cost fallacy and I mean, they're right. There'll be some people who Grown and wine. I don't care. It's the correct points value I don't care if people are going to be slightly upset for a minute set things at the correct points value And the correct points value for this is 130 points Yeah, I'd accept 120 125 But in my head it's 130 Yeah I think yeah 120 Yeah, I mean it's such a good buff Yeah, I think I think I'm a 120 fan if I think back to My decisions early on Sure, but either way, we're all saying more than this and by the way, yeah, none of us are saying a small amount more Right, that's a 33 percent increase on her points And it's still a very cheap foot hero like yeah by the end of it. I get still reasonable price to pay I'm still gonna figure out how to get oh, I slapped my mama in the face for this in slanesh. Are you kidding me? Absolutely Okay, so at any rate and by the way, she'd still be good. She'd still be picked I'm not saying yeah, it wouldn't make her bad. She'd still be totally picked Yeah, there we go. Okay, boop boop Uh, I don't tom are you agreeing with us or what somebody else said tom's watching. Hey tom. I hope you're doing well, brother Uh sisters of slapter Uh So obviously they're basically like they were before with a few very minor changes Um importantly if you give them the buckler now, it's just a straight five up save characteristic Yep, it's not a plus one. Thank you not a plus one Which is cool So I like that easier change enough to remember it. It's just you know, that's the number I have no issue with them going from a six up to a five up with the sacrifice of the attack Perfectly fine. I am okay with it Because it's a it is a meaningful choice to have that extra attack versus to have The the extra plus one to save fine They can still run in charge. They can still six inch pile in because of dance of death And they still have bladed bucklers if you take the shield where they can kick back the mortals 135 for 10 Now before we talk about these at all Let's go to witch elves because it's obviously a sort of mirror unit, right? um, witch elves Being uh, if they go for the paired weapons, then there are three attack base if they go for the Shield option where they again move to a five up safe than their two attack space. So very similar choice Right in both cases. We're sacrificing one attack for the shield. So good stuff Easy balance still run in charge fine still have the bladed buckler the new rule for them are the new rule the new Whatever the new wording Is add one to wound rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by this unit while it's wholly within 12 inches Of any friendly daughters of cain totems boom the totem buff Tyler I was ahead of my time I saw it all coming back in 2016 I'm and I are never gonna hear the end of it uh Look, I do Bring back bring back that that that scheme. That's all I'm saying. I was gonna get a shirt. I'm excited about totems I'm excited about totems. Yeah, absolutely. I am Uh 115 points for 10 Okay So, um Obviously very similar profiles ramp capabilities synergy capabilities so on and so forth Right, uh, the big difference being that sisters If taken in craith have this other ability if either can buff and drakey Uh, and sisters always have that built in very powerful Very powerful Six inch cheater pile in rule. Yep. Okay So I do feel the cost differential between the two units is justified It's that that's a really interesting debate because if we look at the previous book I With the way the books were structured in the way that buffs worked and everything I thought they should be the same points, which is why I mean I thought hard I guess internally and they come out initially with that and they eventually started separating as buffs and things changes Edition changes, but I saw them as Two different options really blendy or more utility with that pile in But now with this frenzied fervor add it on top um I it and just and in fact that it's if it changed it to a three, but it's like the plus one like that's better um I'm starting to agree more and more especially but that I'm wondering if that's partially because we're in the shooting Meta of things That that six inch pylon is amazing because I you screw your only shell. I'm just going to come into right. Yeah Yeah, but I I wonder because like I see it. I see the separation is on points better now But as maybe we move away from the shooting meta, maybe they come back closer together in my mind Yeah, I mean I I cannot understate the power of six inch pylon. It's so wild That's why my ability is yeah Yeah, where we're at right now. Yes. I can't disagree with that. Yeah to be clear It means they have on scroll run in charge. I mean, I know they already do but technically they are like they get it twice They have retreat in charge Right and they have ignore unleash hell That's that's written on their scroll because of that one rule Right so I've seen a lot of folks talking about just leaning into witch elves and that these are over costed assistive slaughter I mean a lot might be an oversimplified but a number of people commenting I've heard and Yeah, I don't I don't see it I would definitely go with could easily do two by 20 as part of a witch elves less sos heavy list with a couple wagons And yeah, just like we talked about earlier guys with that ability to better control Uh, your minimization of the slap of the clap back minimization of damage that's coming back to you That's so critical with the the glass that aren't the lack of durability being creased as well as the output So yeah, it seems to me like they still have a very clear role with this army Yeah, and the way I look at it like that since I play craith I max out and says there's a slaughter two into 30 unit 10 Um, or however you want to source it out But really what that comes down to is like, okay, because it's an extra 20 points per 10. I'm not getting extra hero. So I'm probably taking The the heart Prayer invocation. So it's like it still works out to be okay. Like it's not It's not ruining any lists being at the points that are out right now Yeah The other thing I'll say is don't forget the sisters do also have a two inch reach with their core weapon If you're taking like the sisters with with bucklers, right? Which means that you can be in a lot different sort of formations and still have them all fight Whereas the witch elves you've got to affect to get them all fighting you have to be in two pretty tight ranks Right. Yeah, that's a good point. Yep. So Yeah, I mean like I said to me it it is a valid choice between these two I think it's really just like your list and strategy dependent as to what's the right unit for you um Yeah, so there you go Um Okay, good. So yeah, both battle line both good choices Yep, well done and and both have a cool slightly different play to them Can I shadow stonkers? Standing apart by being a four up save in this army, which is weird. So good on you Not a lot of that going around No more no more minus one to shoot. They just have a better say Yes, yeah, they lost their minus one to be to be hit They are about a line in calibron as mentioned earlier. They're 150 points for nine of these folks But you're it's not nine wounds. It's more because you get the shroud queen lady in here who has a wound's characteristic of three So you're technically getting 11 wounds in the unit For that 150 points and they still have your teleport She's got mini heart render the The leader of this she's just mini heart render Not as much red. Oh, yeah, like it's just like it's surprising the damage I can go out if you roll decent So, um Yeah, I mean these guys are good. You take them Okay, my argument on shadow stonkers is you use them as a backfield deck chair sitting unit that threatens late game teleport Objectives and and just general harassment so Yeah, and and they lost their what six up mortals on shooting What you weren't doing anyway because you were too close by the time you were at that point So like it that's fine like you're you're right put them in the backfield You know deploy them in a way so people can't deep strike upon you and then once that their threats are down Then go in their back line and harass them and then move away and strike and fade strike and fade Yeah, I don't I think they are probably slightly overcosted right now given the loss of the different abilities But they're still a very threatening unit like to me they feel a similar role as tree revenants in the sylvaneth army Honestly a little more punchy in in general But like one of the things that really makes me love tree revs is they're cheap Right like I can I can have the deck chair sitter teleport threat guys on the cheap I'm paying a little more of a premium here, right sort of I mean Tree revs are 80 They have five wounds this unit has the equivalent of I believe 11 wounds eight models and then uh, yeah So 11 wounds so I mean that's roughly You you know, that's roughly 160 points by tree revs center, but yeah, I give what you're saying though Uh a lot of folks and I certainly did this would use them as a teleport screen So again with keldron. That's really nice. Yeah you they're they're your power pair Uh with their babysitter wouldn't even call it with your your 10 or 15 bow snakes wherever they go you teleport your shuttle stalkers to yeah be your be your screen and and they Yeah, they do seem a little too high not a lot but a little I think they went up 30 points 120 to 150 The four plus is interesting It's you know the gap between a three plus base on a four plus base is enormous in this game So it's still good. I mean tom just said they're one of the best anvils in the in the army And I don't disagree with that Um, you know, they are it does make them a lot tougher, especially if they're within a Cauldron's ridiculous shield shield, right? part of me wishes they they had not necessarily A cast but I wish they had a dispel on them Since they are like shadow magic just because backfield all of a sudden I have things to dispel you with something a little extra Not necessarily something breaking, but to make it worth the points they're currently at Yeah, yeah Yeah, I would be really curious to explore and or hear from folks who again try to lean into a unit like this Maybe a combination of some of these units you don't see as much and look at some Um at shooting play styles, you know some off the off the path play styles It'll like for example The potential of multiple and we'll get into them the heart renders who can auto move when after they shoot they come in They deep strike and they auto move six inches, right? You have two by five come in There's 10 bodies that your opponent can't do you could you know, traditionally you zone out Uh, the telepo deep strikers teleporters coming in to deny them being able to get within six And the objective right you zone that out Well, you've got tricks with this army that you can mitigate their ability to do that And you can have two by five come in that's 10 models that will guarantee get on that objective. That's 10 bodies right there Yeah, I think there could be some interesting play with these Leaning to them. I mean my question is if you're playing caliber on is it 150 points worth getting three Points at the end because hold the line you just keep hiding out one unit that'll be Yeah, sure you should run them like it's like is that worth is that worth it? Is that a is that a potential playing caliber on? Oh, that's interesting. Yeah It feels like Yeah, there's there's some opportunities here with this unit, but maybe a little a little overpriced not by much No, not by much. I mean, I'm literally saying like maybe 140. I think I would feel better Yeah, like it's it's we're talking small here. This isn't this isn't a high gladiatoric situation Um, and honestly, I don't hate him at 150. It's not like they're bad I mean most armies would be super happy about a you know An auto teleporting unit with a decent enough profile. Yeah, I'm still gonna look at them. Yeah Yeah so Okay, cool uh Doomfires, uh, the unit that would be you know good solid in any other book and will continue to be not taken in Daughters no matter what tom tells you or has tried to make happen over the years It's never gonna happen. So just let it go But yeah, I mean they're fast. They have two wounds. They have a five up save. They're still a wizard They still have their doomfire spell And importantly They are Actually another source of plus one to cast Yep, because they have a bad one to casting and unbinding roles And in fact, I think they're the only source of plus one to unbind In the army because shadow stone is only on the cast That's true. Yep The only source to plus one to cast non lower spells non. Yeah, correct. That's true Yep, so if you're trying to power out like generic endless spells or something like that um So they do have an angle here even this unit, which I don't think will honestly see much play But I could be wrong. I could be wrong. Maybe people will surprise me I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna. I just that's my my my intuition is they'll continue to be not seen a lot Um, but they're reasonably costed at 145 for five with the capabilities they have like they're a completely reasonable unit Again with buffs I mean Good, good. So, yeah, if you have a unit of 10 and um, you want them to be putting out your mind razor I mean, that's a pretty big Block in the center of your army to touch whatever you need to do wherever you want to go with it Mm-hmm Yeah, I really good mobility Yeah, I mean again, yeah any other book or most of the books these are fantastically priced and would be a would be a great pick Yeah, my problem. I have two problems one. This is the daughter's okay I know they wrote lower for it do Do these dudes out here? Yeah, and I know tom did some great conversions and I thought about doing it, but I just couldn't Oh couldn't you couldn't be asked to do that? Um, two This is the only instance I can think of where we have a dual kit This can also be the dark riders like this. Doomfires should just be in cities Yeah Like they should have never been here. I don't know why they were Ever put here completely agree. I I have 20 and it's just like I just can't bring myself to ever put him in a list Yeah But yeah, like I said, I If they suddenly started showing up like if people started showing up with a five pack to power out in a particular end of spell Or some other Or something like that. I wouldn't be like, oh, I what are they doing? That's crazy That is, you know, I would think like, okay cool. People did have the room where they found a way to make it work That's what I would think Yeah, it's sorry go ahead. Yeah, one little detail about it You know check the I believe the lore Specifies doctors became hero and oh does it this is not sorry hero unit So I don't believe they're getting access to the lore spells It does it does. I'm sorry. I'm thinking of a The older books I'm mixing it up. So no the good correction. Um, I uh I throw one in I throw like a unit these in every once in a while to a list and I'm never impressed I've done that for since every book. I've thrown just five or just keep trying to make it work It's like maybe this time. They'll do something amazing. I want them. But no, yeah, no, thanks for the correction on that Tyler No, good call Okay, so yes, they do not have that. I was I was going to look at that as well. Good call All right, the avatar of kane this guy this guy had an interesting little glow up He's he's kind of uh, I'll be interested to get everybody's take on this dude Uh, nine inch move nine wounds four up save. Obviously. He doesn't need to be prayed to activate anymore. He just is So cool Still gets that as we mentioned earlier the plus one to chanting for people around him built in five award And he has this sort of non monster monster actions, which is he can rampage Or he can he can monsters rampage. This is a behemoth by the way He has a totem So he can issue commands in a long range. So that's neat uh, but he He can monsters rampage even though he's not actually a monster Which may Matter very little for the life of this book that is to say like right now. It's important, but in Clock is ticking I don't know a month in a week or something perhaps Who knows, you know, like realistically beginning of july was when the last ghp came out. So The time of the monster mattering may matter less Although he doesn't count. He counts as two for cap not five, which will probably remain and you know is important Um, but he can only do stomp or smash to rubble The interesting thing is he cannot be picked to be the target of a monster's rampage Like he has his own weird built-in hunters of the heartlands. So he can't get other monsters rampages against him Um Yeah, I don't know what to think of this guy. He's 155 Tyler, what's your what's your what's your take on this guy? I think he's gonna struggle to find a home But but go ahead Yeah, I love this guy, but I mean I could see him being a part of a list with Witch elves sort of slaughter in the lines with the totem I could but more importantly, yeah, I mean my play style is always Predicated, I mean with silvaneth stormcast it's predicated on Hitting from sides from the kind of the classic warm of fantasy daco daco play style and to me This is a perfect piece for that. I've been playing a lot of bashing car flows You know, we had that discussion. What's the role for bashing, right? What's he doing? Well, bashing is an extraordinary distraction card effects You buff him up Warding lantern, etc You translocate him you put him on his side Often the times he's a piece that your opponent needs to deal with He's so difficult to deal with this is he's kind of this is like a bashing light piece to me So I definitely could see this finding a home in kelobron multiple ones finding a home in kelobron where you're just kind of Having a launch pla launch pad play style with these pieces. You're hitting them with witch brew sacrament of blood They have totem so they can buff up themselves. They can operate independently Nine wounds nine inch move Detect profile that's going to easily be on twos and twos minus two or in three damage four attacks What the buff cannot be stomped or cannot be roared Because of the wrath of cane Built in five of boards. I think it's an amazing piece for 155 personally I could That's to me is one of those areas where I would love to see people Trying out Two three even four of these in a list to see how it goes Just in terms of the I think the play style that that you could lean into And and the impact these could have in terms of around the battlefield You know killing chaff going after small wound heroes spreading your opponent out minimizing what they can come Into your lines with yeah, I think they've got a lot of play Okay, chuck Yeah, I'm also a big fan. I think the only person that would rival that for me is is wanting to include two more of these on the list Besides style here would be chump hammer He maxes them out all the time, but uh, I I love them I would brand them when you had to pray to activate them And now I just look at it. It's cheaper because I don't have to also have a hag queen nearby to try and activate them Granted I could also give witch brew to and it was exciting to do that and watch it be choppy But the five up ward gives a little bit more survivability Um and just yeah, but kind of like what Tyler said, I will run it next to a unit of witch elves Uh, not so much. Just there's a slaughter all the time Um more witch elves just because like a they'll they'll keep up better because they're gonna charge with both and all that Um the totem the totem synergy. Yeah. Yeah, and I love I love the fact that uh, it's a monster without being a monster in a weird way Yeah, I get the actions because this this army lacked the actions only the shadow queen could do it. So Uh, yeah, I like that. I can If I if I get in the back line of a beast of chaos, okay Well, goodbye to your hurt stone there take out the boats, you know, sure. It's nice to have those abilities Uh and be willing to throw this at a monster because it can do decent damage to a monster Um, but knowing that if I die, I'm uh, you know currently giving up The fact that I'm a monster too. Sure All right. I want to keep moving because my dogs are literally barking. Um I might feed just like my dogs want to go out and they're trapped down here with me So we're gonna move move with relative haste here Okay, um bloodstalkers are bloodstalkers. They're what you think they are their snakes and they shoot and they do mortal wounds On sticks to hit still So There we are And there's still 180 for five and their battle line as mentioned with earlier with the either the malusai general or in xanthar kai um As we said earlier probably should have moved that mortal wound to the wound roll and That would be better or we should have made them 20 points more expensive. I would have accepted either Um 180 sorry tyler mortal wound shooting just needs to be more expensive You can you can hate it all you want, but it's the case Judicators are correctly pointed eat it. Oh, they are. Yeah. Uh, anyway, we won't get into it Sure Blood sisters though now we're talking my language. Here we go, baby uh, so the glaives Three attacks three threes neg one one. You should just read that as twos and twos because uh That's what it is if you're fighting with these things in any reasonable way If you fit all tunes your list to use these things It's twos and twos And the important part here is after this unit has fought for the first time in a phase And after all of its attacks have been resolved You can pick one enemy unit within one inch of this unit Roll one dice for each model in the unit not who's within an inch just each model the unit And it's immediately after the fought they fought Um for each two plus that enemy unit suffers one mortal wound two plus crystal touch And not at the end of combat now. That's my favorite part. Yeah, not at the end of combat not on a three up Just two up zip zap Not to mention all the ways you could I fight with him and then he'd be like, okay. Well, I'm gonna go to be like And I would just go like this Give you the bad touch go ahead Not to mention the fact that you're probably if you're taking them as you're about a line You're probably having things in the army that's going to give them extra attacks as well Yeah, like sure. Yeah, just just naturally. Yeah, like it's yeah I mean not that you really need it most of the time But sure now now, but you're more likely gonna have something you're like, oh, yeah, I got extra attack now Fun on this unit, right? I agree like cue the transformers music. Uh, you do in fact have the touch You've got the power. I love these so much I love charging a man and keeping like a hero within an inch and then not attacking the hero at all I attack the unit like, you know after the pile in Pile into within an inch of the hero you chop the unit to bits and then you just turn to the hero and like And just turn him to stone Uh, I also you get by the way a good song recommendations for when attacking with blood sister Certainly, you've got the touch from the transformers soundtrack. I would also accept elos turn to stone Uh, so all all of those will work. Um, yeah at 140 for five. I'm a buyer. Um Yeah, yeah, just an inordinately powerful unit now with uh with with how all this works What's the reasoning then for real quick? Why this works with the fight on death with zanthar kai? It has to do with whether or not the individual model counts as the unit fighting because that's that's where the trick comes in Like there's an FAQ question here. Okay, if you the trick is uh If it's the second time you fought Right, like if you already fought and then you do you go down to zanthar kai's death frenzy and you fight again It definitely doesn't trigger There's no question there because it's only after the first time The FAQ question comes into the fact like okay. Well, this model's fighting Is this model equivalent where it says after this unit has fought at this unit, right? Right that difference in wording So my answer is I don't know it's it's worth an FAQ question like raw It probably doesn't trigger but I could see it as like somebody saying well Yeah, but it's fighting for the first time. Doesn't it feel like it's a trigger? I Right. I don't I don't know it because they could have I could see them FAQing it either way Like oh the model's part of a unit a unit consists of models if the model fought the unit fought in some way, right? So hence it can activate like It's sort of a squishy rules area. So Right on that's the discussion Um, I mean like if I if I'm playing it raw, I would I would not do it right now. Sure, right Um Yeah, phenomenal unit. We're gonna see a lot of these Yep kits it yeah, it's just the the most raw power like, you know, it's first line of this battle tone to me is 2 plus crystal touch A lot at the end of the combat phase Wonderful. We'll see a lot of blood sisters Um with the quiver still attached because people change bits out Hey, I built all melee snakes when I bought them kits And I am ready to roll. I got a lot of melee snakes Uh, so I'm I'm in like Flynn Good over here. No quivers on my girls Um, although if I made both snakes, I wouldn't attach the quivers anyways. I never put that crap on units Tell hot tip number one to painting armies faster leave that useless crap off of your units Okay Uh, heart renders and lifetakers 95 and 90 points respectively Uh, heart renders in my mind still have a unit or still have a roll lifetakers do not Uh, so lifetakers used to obviously be a thing that you could like juice up and Run their damage to the moon all those rules of like when they drop they gain all this bonus crap It's not it's not like that anymore It's just you can still set them up and reserve and they come down They have to be down by the end of three yada yada all that's still true The trick is the lifetakers just don't have a very good melee profile And they're extremely fragile as one wound models with a five up save um They no longer have the um the shield kickback of mortals either um like they used to And the trick with lifetakers is after they fight you can roll a die and on a four plus they can retreat six inches Which is cool, but it's not every time Whereas the heart renders can drop pop with their ranged attack because they've got a 12 range attack still Now you don't get the bonus rend anymore So it's just five shots on threes and threes neg one one don't bet on it for a lot of damage But then they can fire and fight fire and flight automatically They don't make the roll anymore. So now after they shoot they can just move six inches, which is great Yeah I think in isolation the lifetakers are well pointed for what they are again read that as essentially 11 attacks at twos and twos minus one rend excellent flexibility That's far better than tree revenants tree revenants do nothing in combat at 80 points So I think in isolation. Yeah, it's a solid unit But you're not going to see them that much. I don't think unless again You have to shave off some points here or there and you've got to go with the lifetakers Yeah, heart renders would love to see an msu play style like four Units of these in the list and you're leading is that idea of combo damage dropping into at a time Let's say one or two at a time taking Whittling down units on an objective from range And then dropping these into to nab objectives. I don't know just kind of Be something interesting there that you could do Yeah, heart renders. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean lifetakers were never meant to be some offensive powered melee unit Unfortunately, we just nerfed them a little too much. I think like now they felt and not having a role now I would I would still give them a look at their current points if they kept that bounce back mortal wounds Because they're going to die whether they go into so like that that would be the thing I'd wish they still had to give them that look and be like, okay I can throw a five and at a horde and bounce hopefully a bunch of wounds back, but that's about it. Yeah, totally check. Yeah But somebody tried to do that to me with 10 protectors With a bucket of attacks just try to Suicide five lifetakers in and just to get me done. Yeah, roll a bucket of dice and try to roll as many successes as they could Anyway, yeah, yeah, it would be cool Did you just star soul mace him to death? Uh, no, you have to roll out all your attacks Sure, sure fair point, uh pile in like away and bring the star souls in Because your unit still got didn't go farther away, right? You just kind of swip swamp the guys there switch ranks at any rate, um the Yeah, I mean heart renders are still quite valid to me. I have two units of heart renders in my my chosen list I think the fact that they can drop and float automatically is good It's not overpowered anyway because they're not doing mostly any damage when they come down for the most part They're really just a tricky piece for sort of board objective control threat stuff like that, which I like Again, that's part of the challenge. These guys fill the tree rev roll to me actually a lot better than The shadow stonkers Yeah, yeah, sure Because they're they're about the same. They're like they're where I want right? I'm buying wholesale I understand like wounds to point ratio, whatever, but in the end I get a I'm building a list of 2 000 points, right? That's what it comes down to So I'm not building a list of 200 wounds or something, you know, so Uh, cool Uh, whoops. All right Uh, all right Here's what I'm gonna do Does anyone here in this current show Want to defend The viper or bladewind? Not in the current edition I would have defended blade wreck viper in the previous edition not the station Uh, just too too much for I feel what you're getting and especially with the meta that we're generally expecting to be heading into an upcoming month and So and you know blade one not interested but heart of fury is a completely different story. Sure like I I could see some small argument for viper in that it It weirdly counts as a monster and can stomp on someone So if you have nobody else who can stomp it can do a free d3 mortal wounds, which would make it better than most Uh, endless spells because most endless spells actually struggle now to even do a d3 mortals But it's way overcosted like at 80 points. That is wild It's on a it's on a base seven says we've discussed. You're not able to benefit from shadow stone On that so you're just looking at flat out seven or you're looking at doomfire warlocks to get you a plus one Yeah, they have flagmore models. So yeah, and bladewind is completely worthless. Get out of here with this nonsense Okay, so not even gonna we're having to talk about it. So dumb Uh Heart of fury though now we're talking. Okay, so this is obviously an invocation not a um Not a a endless spell can often be brought out on the answer value of two because of your bonuses Uh, and it's 45 points and effectively gives you coalesced minus one damage like it had like it did before for the most part um during the phase during combat specifically so This I don't hate Fantastic. Yeah, I think heart of fury is actually pretty good It's gonna be in a lot of lists. Yeah this piece Like again, it's actually a good defensive tool in an army without many defensive tools Uh, that's relatively easy to control and get out And even on the downside where it does blow itself up effectively, right? You're getting something great on the way out. Yeah, it gives you like a really great buff on the way out Yeah, yep If we're truly moving toward, you know, a quote unquote horde meta with one a lot of one damage Then okay, maybe this doesn't make the cut as much as it would have in the Season that we've just gone through I'm laughing at frog arms comment viper is great. You can spend 80 points to level up your opponent's crown spire That's good Yeah But no, I'm a big fan of heart of fury. So it's it's in my current craith lists for sure agreed Okay Real quick. There's all the points All right, tyler. We're gonna I'm gonna give you like three minutes Tyler as like we said, this is sort of a timmy johnny book Or sorry, timmy spike book. I apologize to sort of a timmy spike book But tyler ever the johnny was trying to build his His johnny list Uh, so tyler three minutes take us through what you got right on Well, this is an example in terms of this the challenge for for the community I mean, let again, let's see if you love marathi do it Have fun. Let's see some non-marathi list. This is a variety pack List there's one two three four five six seven eight nine different war scrolls All the number I was talking with events, baby vault wars next year We do some kind of variety pack award You got to have a minimum number of warscrolls Is it 10 did I skip or one two three four five six seven eight nine? Oh, you're right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, you're right nine Yep Because you because you took witch elves instead of a unit of sisters a slaughter right there You could you could have gotten to 10 you got the points. Absolutely got the points for it. Yeah Should have done it and I mean you yeah, there's a lot going on with this list It's not as obvious, but And it's leaning I've talked a little bit about on this episode Kelebron is the obvious johnny play you can lean into a number of different play styles with this You've got your combo damage potential a seven fold shadow with blood rock medusa. There you go We're going into a horde meta. That's going to be part of a combo piece with burning down a unit 30 divided by six five mortal wounds right there. You've got your Blood stalkers you've got the shadow stalkers that can be your teleport screen. Keep them screened off You've got two by 10 witch elves a good footprint 25 millimeter bases You can get really good coverage You can do double layered protect yourself from a double turn So that's why I did like witch elves rather than liberators that are more just obvious anvils as allies Incidentally allies. I mean that's a whole other show I think there's a lot of ally choices to get some johnny play with this with this army in general five heart renders That idea of the combo damage where again, you you whittle down a unit you bring them in you still an objective avatar of cane There's your distraction piece. I mean you can use that in a number of different ways You've still got a huge Hammer unit with the 15 melee snakes that right there is zealous order is I mean that's an immediate threat It's difficult to burn through 15 of them. You can pull them out of combat in the next turn regardless who's going Bring them back up on a four plus There's there is crown of woes there sacrament of blood to accelerate the table Heart of fury is there to minimize damage. You've got multiple pieces and hunters Like there this I just wanted to throw out like this is the first list that I wrote looking at the book Throw out a list that has combined arms That can do a number of different things And be a really interesting play style. I think while running a wide range of the of the model range Yeah, I think there's many many different lists like this Some that can be more thematic leaning into I mentioned martin wolf's Shadow stalkers plus avatars of cane You could drop down from 15 blood snakes or 15 melee snakes to two avatars of cane Where you've got two distraction harassment objective Harasser chaff killing little hero killing pieces that are going around the table while you've still got 10 melee snakes 10 bow snakes. You've still got the hagman on cauldron I just think there's a ton of play with with this kind of list Is that right on good you did it three minutes you got there All right, awesome. So there you go. That's doc. I mean overall like I said My summary would be honestly good internal balance. There are a few scrolls that I think are are wrong in points Like the high glad atrix needs to move up life takers don't really have much of a role Still interested to see what becomes of doomfire warlocks and whether people do start trying out the avatar of cane I think those are the big question marks in my mind Um, you know great different choices on sub factions. I hope we see a lot of different stuff played there I like that there are multiple paths to victory multiple different unit constructions and army constructions like it's It makes me happy as the melee snake person I can run the list I want, but I know you know chuck as you mentioned you you like you miss the big locks of witch elves That's back on the table again. Yep, right so and It's funny because All three of us have talked about lists we like and I don't think any of us have included marathi in those lists Not that she's bad by the way. That's not at all what I'm saying It's just the three lists we happen to love don't have marathi in them But I'm sure but you've also obviously got that as an avenue as well. She's yep. She's still a good piece Uh, so really I think it's it's a solid book Um gives a lot of different and and valid options Um, it feels very glass canony. It feels very daughters of cane what it should be It will hit super hard in its turn and fear the hit back Real bad. He used to losing models Yeah, yeah, yeah things will die I'll say I have nothing to add that you guys didn't already just elaborate perfectly, uh in in the Keep keep things short what I will do is I'll ask everyone in chat right now Grab yourself a d6 that I'm sure you all have like I do just see my desk and I want you to roll it. All right The four plus welcome to craith. You're now craith player Uh, if it was a four plus drop it in the chat hit a like if you rolled a three or less enjoy any other Um sub faction and also hit like Trying to indoctrinate more people in your craith culture and I actually just rolled a five. So I'm still good Chuck has to start a new show after this, but it has the strike last effect. That's what that means. There you go I'm gonna commentate watching myself on this stream. Right exactly. You got to re-watch it afterward and commentary over the top I really like this point. I think vince is totally wrong here Oh Yeah, so don't forget to hit like don't forget to subscribe do all those fun things click buttons like it says up there in the corner It's fun Uh, don't forget. We do have a patreon if you want to support the channel if it's hobby Focus so if you're interested in taking the next step on your hobby journey It is review and feedback focused. We'd love to have you along on the journey as always Uh Very much appreciated for any support Uh, whether it be just hitting that little button because it helps other people find the show and that Is always highly valuable. Thank you so much chuck for coming on brother really appreciated Yeah, thanks for having me some blast to be back. Absolutely. Thank you everyone I see you looks like uh, it looks like you got some some some more craith inductees a lot of threes and ones though Chuck a lot of threes and ones. Okay. All right. It's fine. We'll get you eventually For all of you out there. Thank you so much for watching. We really appreciate it as always