 All right, hi everybody One more time. We are good to go. Just verify one more time You have some slides up there in front of you and you hear me good Hear me well All right, great Let me make clear what tonight is so that I don't underperform as it were this is a One-hour presentation to go over topics that are what I would call very very beginner type topics These are things that in my mind know what you should even be trading With real money until they understand these intimately My experience is however though there are traders that are trading for a month two months a year or more that really don't understand some of these topics I have like four hours of material here and Obviously I have about an hour to go over this. I don't have to quit right at five But there is another presentation. I know a lot of you are heading to which is from traders accounting about you know how to You know handle some of the tax issues at 530 and I'll give you the link to that if you don't have it as well, too So I do want to keep it to about an hour and I think the best way to go about this is is is this I In the last couple weeks I had a couple of questions that I think are real pertinent So I'm actually going to cover those questions. Hopefully those people are here. I told them to be here But if not, we'll see and Then I'm pregnant take your questions And if I don't have a lot of questions, there are a couple of topics that I want to go over because I know just historically They are the most common questions that it has to do with with money how much is needed order execution What kind of orders routes all that kind of stuff it gives them some answers to those questions Some of the answers will surprise you I bet you even you guys have been trading More than a year. I have a question for you. I bet you 75% you get it wrong Because there's some some interesting stuff out there. So I'm gonna go ahead and get started here Let me just excuse me one second I'm kind of all alone here tonight and Yeah, I'm gonna stay on the mic, but I'm just gonna homer something to myself for a minute here. So give me just one second I have a couple people who email me that I have to send them a link real quick because they're having some problem I don't know why so you guys have houses how things go today everybody I see there's there's a couple people here from our room and the rest of you are from elsewhere Where are you guys from keep mine? It is normal that you are I'll read any questions I know you guys can't see the other people here or the questions. That's the way the room is set up Awesome day good Where'd you guys where'd you guys obviously got an email, but how did you hear about us or how did you get to be here? So I was gonna let these people go what I felt bad. There's a couple people here that I just want to get and they start again Right they try to get right for ask what platforms people are trading on you guys want to volunteer with platforms you're trading on I'm not I can't I'm not so sure that's a great question to ask everybody is kind of like asking everybody who they're voting for the Inlection, I'm not sure that's really A topic which you can learn a lot from other people it kind of depends what you want what you're looking for What you want to do? I guess some to some extent reliability or something Well, let's leave that back mark because I do want to go over the the other important stuff here first and give me just 30 More seconds guys and then I will be with you. Sorry for the delay here This is being accorded recorded yes, and you can find it on YouTube later tonight sometime, okay? I'm mostly trying to Do okay All right, so you need a broker for stock trading all right, so let's let's take a run through and see what we have to talk about here Again, I literally have four hours of stuff. I can talk about But I'm gonna hand a couple questions first and then see what questions you guys have and then Very least I want to cover two topics that I know people always get a little confused about Afterwards traders accounting is going to be at 530 And I think you know if you If you are trading full-time, I think you ought to at least you know listen to this stuff Yeah, the link here excuse me the link is huge. I didn't have a shorter link Why did go way up there? That's weird Okay, so if you want to click on that and save that does that work and save that for later That's where you can go at 530. You got you got to register whatever see my way to do the one talking so That's going on 530. All right, so here's here's first question. I had Hi, I'm new to trading and I've been watching your webinars and I like your trading style I'm interested in purchasing course except I'm uncertain about the cost to enter trades You talk about and how much capital is needed for each trade Do I need to have a capital purchase the whole stock you're purchasing the option of the stock? I see the risk but don't understand the initial outlay to enter the trade. Could you please respond so that I'm clear I'm minimum capital required to take the trade. Okay, so this is a great topic and again Please understand these are basic topics if you've been here a long time you may not learn a whole lot here But let's first of all he brings up options. Let's talk about options as you know At the stock shares Michelin gives Melissa gives some option plays, but those are long-term plays You generally don't day trade with options. I'm not saying nobody in the world ever has I'm not saying you can't but it's not very opportunity to do so because There's expenses more expense to getting into options a lot of the times Especially if you're trying to do something early in the morning Option prices can vary a lot. I've done a lot of options in my time I'm I concern myself a relative expert on options to some extent But options can can can fluctuate a lot in value and like for example if you go to Try to take out a put on something the gaps down Can you guys tell me what the with the flaws with that thinking? I'm gonna ask you guys some questions You're keep you involved. What's the flaw with with saying well as a day trade? I'm gonna I'm gonna hold something 30 minutes I'm gonna take a put out on it so I can afford it better What's gonna be the problem with that theory and theory it sounds good Well instead of spending most money on the stock especially if it's a $200 stock or something So I'll just take out this put and blah blah blah. What's what's the problem with that? There is a real flaw to that Well somebody saying in liquidity that can be an issue and your right Joe I mean a lot of times the problem with options when you're doing them short-term is that There can be a spread between them. You can't get filled as easily the liquidity can be a problem all those things But even if you overcome all that there's another problem. Yeah Ron bingo exactly guys the big thing with options. What's the key word when you talk about options? What do you have to manage? What do you have to know about what do you have to control when you're doing options? The key word Joe Ron you already said it. So I mean, you know the answer Well, yeah true the underlying price is always key But beyond the underlying price there's the underlying price is the time to expiration and there's the that magical Unknown thing called volatility, right In other words given the same stock with the same strike price in the same time to expire in the same underlying That price could vary dramatically Because of the volatility right in other words the stock gaps down in the morning the volatility can be so huge that you pay so much for the put That you could literally have the stock go in your direction for 30 minutes and still not make money correct people who do options You can have the stock move in your direction and you make zilch because the the The volatility dries up and what you paid for just kind of dissipates and even though it's going to your direction You're making money because it's going the right direction where you're losing money because the volatility is easing up So it's not the it's not what we really do. So First part of that question Here is you know to use options and no not for day trading. I mean, I've never done that today trade I I've options is more of a long-term strategy to me and and options The biggest concept of options really is that you're you're just changing the rewards risk parameters is all you're really doing in a sense There are many many different ways you can use options the simplest ways It's just by calls on something because it's cheaper than buying the stock But even then you can buy in the money calls out of the money calls at the money calls It's important to understand What we call, you know the the the yield curve or the curve the profit curve really of Each one of those because it depends where you think it's going what you want to do and that's way beyond our discussion for today I'm not here to give you a full-blown lecture on options But just understand that you know just for simplicity again talking to new people save options for long-term plays and for most people You know you just want to be careful using options because they're they're not free trades, you know, they're People people sometimes get lulled into options for the wrong reasons You have to get that underlying stock moving greatly in your favor for the options to work And that's what Melissa does with what she makes her calls is with longer-term plays So in the room we're talking about actually buying or shorting the stock itself. Okay Now the next question comes up. Well, how much money do you need to to buy or short a stock? Well, let's say you're looking at a $25 stock And now I don't want to use 25 because it'll it'll confuse the math. Well, let's say you're looking at a $20 stock Okay, and you want to let's let's use a big number So say you're gonna buy 5,000 shares or short 5,000 shares. It doesn't matter. You're gonna control 5,000 shares Well, 5,000 shares times 20. That's $100,000. Do you need $100,000? The answer is no you don't need $100,000 If you have a typical broker account a typical margin account you get four to one leverage during the day And that means that you would only have to have capital in your account $25,000 and that would allow you to buy up to $100,000 of stock at a time and that would cover 5,000 shares of a $20 stock everybody clear on that. That's just some simple math there Everybody clear on that one. I could pull up a little drawing board if you want me to Of course, it's hard to draw on it, but That makes sense Good good good Maybe help maybe I'll throw that little drawing board at where to go. Okay. Oh, it's not gonna work like that. All right Now There are other types of accounts you can have also there are Accounts that are called prop accounts where you can Put up money which in a sense covers your loss your losses and you have access to more capital in it Now there are different proverbs out there and again, you got to be very careful And Melissa has one she works with you can email her if you want a recommendation for one But you got to be careful number one you want to make sure that you know you're dealing with somebody that's drop your bulls not going out of business and You also then when you deal with a prop firm, you will get different leverage amounts You could for example put a $5,000 and get 10 to 1 leverage So you could control $50,000 worth of stock with only $5,000 some people do more than that depends On the individual firm what their policy is and they may look at you individually And that's the case. It's possible that you could for $5,000 to $10,000 be able to control $100,000 worth of stock Okay now When you let's go back to a regular margin account when when you are with a regular broker It's pretty standard is four to one and by the way overnight It's two to one typical broker account when it's four to one with the typical tickle broker account The other thing that you have the ability to do is to immediately reuse the money And this is known as day trading rules where as long as you have $25,000 in the account You're qualified as a day trader and day trading in the brokerage and duty means that you get the four to one leverage And you can continuously buy and sell buy and sell in order as you took out those 5,000 shares for $100,000 You've used up to $100,000 But if you sell them or if you exit the trade you can retake another hundred thousand dollars worth of stock You keep doing that hundred times throughout the day if you want to now that is different for some of you are coming from a Maybe a regular investment account or maybe a very small account with $10,000 that you have a college fund or something That's very different because if you don't qualify as a day trader That $10,000 you only get to use once and matter of fact how often do you typically have to wait to reuse the $10,000 anybody? Anybody know And you only get one to one so in a typical account you buy 10,000 over the stock right and it's right exactly right It takes three days to clear So if I buy $10,000 over the stock that's all I can buy with $10,000 and then if I sell it I have to wait three days to get that money back to be used again So obviously that's not what you want to do for day trading. It's not going to work If you do not have $25,000 You are not able to day trade and you may think you're gonna fool somebody But you're not there's very tight rules on this and I don't know exactly the rules But basically you're allowed to buy and sell During the same day only only three ways of three out of four days and take two days I don't know the exact rules But you're not going to be able to effectively day trade because they restrict the amount that you can buy and sell Or enter and exit the same position in the same day So if you don't have $25,000 You're you're and you want to day trade the only real option for you is to go prop Okay Three trades in five days. I said four. Okay close. I was pretty close But the point is without getting in the details is that you effectively cannot day trade And if you violate it, you know, it's a problem, you know, they give you a second chance and then they close your account So it's not like you can fool them or trick them or anything like that, right? so So there's so that covers that issue, right? I don't know if the person who asks these questions here But but that should cover capital that you need so the capital you need is not nearly as much as What You may think it is Because we know multiply out this year as you're taken by the price of the stock You're only going to be putting up a fourth of that or maybe a tenth of that depending on what you're doing now the other thing is that sometimes confuses people is that The amount of money needed to buy the stock is not what we call the amount at risk Okay, a lot of people get this confused. I get people all the time calling and saying well you said you met you made twice what you risked and You bought 5,000 shares with $20 stocks. That's $100,000. You're gonna tell me made $200,000 yesterday No, that's that's not what we're talking about The risk amount is the amount of money that you have decided you will lose before you kill the trade now Again, I see the confusion because you go back to a typical long-term trader You kind of think in terms of well, you know, I took out $40,000 I put it into the stock and that money's gone. It's all tied up and that money's at risk and In a sense, it is a risk. You know, let me I have a couple just simple slides on this Just make sure I'm talking about everything. I want to talk about Yeah here And when you have $40,000 tied up in a stock you're holding for days weeks months. Is that money really at risk? Could you lose your $40,000 and by the way, you typically have two-to-one leverage So you may have only a 20,000 in the account you're only for the 40,000 if you're holding a long-term position And you have 20,000 of your capital you bought 40,000 worth of stock. Is that money at risk? In other words, could it just disappear without and the answer is Yeah, well theoretically though the answer is yes. I mean it can disappear, right? I mean if if if your $20 stock gaps down to $10 because it's a biotech stock You're down to zero because you're two-to-one leverage, right? So you can literally lose all of your money So it's all at risk and that's where a lot of people think when they think risk. Oh that money's at risk Well when we're day trading That's not really what we're talking about because when you're day trading Is there really any chance your stock's going to go to zero in today? I'm not going to say it's 100 percent impossible But the chances are much less than being strict strict my lightning because you'd have to interday the stock would have to wrap that much The point is during the day you're watching your position. You're going to get out, right? The only way that could happen Ron, you're saying no and I agree with you generally But the only way that could happen is the stock was halted And it reopened, you know at at a fraction of the price So what was theoretically possible, you know for the most part we discount that we're day trading We have control over what we're risking So when we talk about a risk amount we're talking about An amount that we have pre-decided is all i'm going to lose So I may take out 5 000 shares of a $20 stock and I may have a hundred thousand dollars of stock tied up And maybe I only have 25 000 dollars in my account, but I'm saying hey, I'm only going to risk $600 Meaning that if those 5000 shares drop more than 12 cents, I'm going to be out because that's hit my maximum amount Okay, so that's what we mean by a risk amount When we're day trading now you guys have a bunch of questions. Let me take your questions. You may want to actually Oh, thank you gene. Yeah, um, I apologize gene made a really good point He say you might want to say what prop means because I'm saying prop and throwing the term around And if I'm talking to newer people, we mean a proprietary trading fund. Thank you It's proprietary fund We call it prop trading is proprietary trading and what it what actually happens is is what you're doing is You're not trading your account You're giving money To a bigger fund to cover your risk amount and you're a sub account trading somebody else's account So some people set up they get millions of dollars together and they say okay gene You want to trade we'll give you a chunk of a hundred thousand out of our big account You can be a sub account you trade it And you give me five thousand bucks in case you lose money and when you get too close to using with that five grand We're gonna cut you off and you have to put more money up. Okay. Does that make sense everybody? Thanks gene. That was really a good point Just kind of blew right by what prop trading was okay, and if you know Yes, if you have dale if you have 25,000 internally if you have a 25,000 out of trading account You can day trade with the structures money if you're selling your shares before the market explain um Yes, absolutely well Dale Dale's asking let me read if you have a 25,000 out of trading account Can you day trade with the stock swish Monday through Friday if you're selling your shares before the market closes explain? Yes, absolutely as a matter of fact If you have 25,000 dale You can you can even hold overnight you can do whatever you want um You have to have a minimum of 25 to day trade Okay, if you don't have that You can't buy and sell on the same day. They won't let you more than a few times a week So you'll you'll get cut off So you have to have 20,000 to 25,000 day trade once you have 25,000 You can buy and sell the same day all you want over and over again over and over again And if you want it to you you can hold because you you stated like you have to sell the clothes You don't have to sell the clothes But typically day trading that's what it involves But if you you know if you did multiple things at the stocks, which yes, I mean we're Done with everything, you know either at 10 o'clock or 10 30 or sometimes I'll do a play That lasts to the end of the day, but raw is exiting as a day trader at the end of the day But if you decided, you know, you wanted to do other things you want to hold some overnight You can do it. Yes Okay, make sense all right Yes, so nobody makes you sell at the end of the day Nobody makes you that but if you want to day trade and if you want to not have the overnight risk And that's what you do. All right All right, good questions um Does that cover Everything on this topic about just initial money how much needed? What's at risk that kind of stuff? Hopefully I'll get to a little bit talking about risk a month a little bit more because It is an important topic as well. I mean you you can't avoid talking about risk when people try all the time to try and leave The risk equation out of their there when they talk about their trades, but you really can't um because If I say I made $600 today on this trade I made $400 on this trade and I said, is that a good trade? You really wouldn't know how to answer, right? Debuts you wouldn't know how to answer because If I risk 200 bucks to make 400 bucks, that's pretty good trade. That's not bad But if I risk $5,000 to make $400, that's not a very good trade probably unless I get 98% of my trades, right? So in other words to make 400 make 200 make 300 maybe it sounds like you're doing okay, but then if your next trade you lose $3,000 That's why you always have to factor in your risk amount because What you make is always relative to what you're risking and that's what's important. That's where a lot of traders get goofed up I personally do not use prop Ron because I'm just you know I probably would have if you know when I started there weren't prop So I think there were times I would have not mine mine and having a prop, but I've I've never used prop myself personally Um, melissa has somebody I know she works with that she recommends. So yeah email melissa for for details about that. Okay All right Let me ask next Truly new people. Do you have any questions very basic questions? And this is the format where you know Nobody can even see where you're typing but me and nobody knows who you are But this is the format to ask any questions that you're normally embarrassed to ask or don't want to ask I'm going to go to the second question up there in a minute, which actually is a big topic So all you guys hear is there is there anything in the top of your mind you want to say, you know Here's a question. It's just been bugging me since the beginning of time If and why you're thinking about you don't have to throw it or not I'm going to I'm going to go back and take this other question because he gets into What I consider to be a big topic that I'm always shocked Of how many people don't understand this? I've been in your What did this guy say I've been always in a trial in your room love it But you don't discuss how to enter these plays using market orders or stop orders. Thank you in advance So let's talk a little bit about that About the types of orders and terminology and that kind of stuff because this still This this amazes me a little bit. I mean, I can remember I started trading a long time ago But I remember I went out of my way to make sure I understood this stuff And back then there was no education I don't want to slide that much of a dinosaur, but there was no education There was somebody you asked you had to go figure it out or You know for the most part you some of the stuff you talk to your broker You're researching you look it up you trial and error you figure it out But you figure it out before you start risking money and I'm Always kind of shocked some days, right? I know people who've been trading for six months a year and they ask questions And I'm like scratching my head like you you don't know the answer that question How long you've been trading, you know, it's it's it's scary to me sometimes Yeah, quick question before we get into that. Sure. Can you tell everyone why you mostly only short in the room? This is something that most has believed in and I've believed in since I first started trading Shorting I've always been in favor of For the very simple reason that it is unquestionably true that things fall faster than they rally unquestionably true And you don't have to do a big research report to prove that just go look at charts And look at how quick they drop intraday or on daily charts compared to I mean all the time you'll see Three weeks worth of gains wiped out in one morning, right two months wiped out in two days. It happens all the time so It's not just the fact that that it's um A bigger move and faster typically But the great thing is is that you're less like they get stopped out See the problem is on long trades as a matter of fact today's a good example And if you look at like some of the the retail today and you played those long Right everybody look at retail today macy's baba were those easy trades? I mean they didn't fly higher, you know, they struggled, you know, because you because You just get a lot of selling because there's built-in selling pressure But when you get a stock that does the right thing on the on the way down It usually moves much faster now, you know, of course, it's it's not infinitely butter But there's some odds to being short rather long sometimes. Yeah In general, I've always liked it better um, I always looked at it this way too that um More times than not it's novice foolish people who are getting along when they shouldn't be um way extended runs way too late in the move and then they have to get out so um, that's what causes Those back and fills on long positions See On the way up even if there's a big buyer a big buyer will come in and buy some stuff, but the big buyer knows That I like to refer to us the little guys is all the idiots that all these idiots will get in Late so the the big guy comes in and buys and he says, okay I got to stop buying because the price is too high I need to average down on my cost more So he'll stop buying and all these little traders are tagging on for the ride Well price starts falling and they start stopping themselves out which stops out more people will stop some more people And boom boom boom and then the big guy when he gets low enough He steps in and buys a little bit and you you get this more erratic pattern like that that tends to happen And the reverse is not really true as much because the typical person is not shorting the typical person is going long so that's why You get the choppy or move now. It's not all the time. There's sometimes where When you have what we call shock value a long position can be just as good as a short But you don't see that as often like all the retail today You know there's you know, there are a couple okay patterns But they're all these slower grinding type moves that back and fill So they're just harder to stay with the position is the biggest deal If you knew you're gonna end up making a new high at the end of the day You know who cares you just sit with it, but you don't know that So you have to protect your position You start getting awkward patterns you get some back and filling and sometimes you stop out Even though the pattern ends up higher, you know what I mean? So that's the reason There is a preference to to short and naturally, you know, we're in a bullish market when we get in a neutral or bearish market Of course that advantage is tenfold even Oh, thanks, right? Yeah, I think that was a good topic for everybody. All right So let's talk about ordering real quick. I'm gonna run through this from from a to z on orders Okay, let's let's talk about terminology first of all, but You don't when you're in positions. You don't buy and sell them. That's not really the right terminology You enter and you exit trades. Okay, you enter and you exit Okay When you're entering a long position, you're buying the stock That's the term everybody knows I'm going along. I'm buying the stock when you exit a long position You sell the stock. These are the terms everybody knows when you enter a short position You're selling short or you can say just shorting the stock. Okay, that's entering a short position And when you're exit a short position, you're buying to cover or covering the short You don't want to say you're buying the short because that is the same term is going long So just terminology wise that's it. And by the way Um, yes, you can short stocks. I have new people all the time That think it's a joke that you can short stock shorting a stock means that you make money as the stock falls There's a slide on that somewhere shorting You make money as the stock falls Okay, just the same as you make it when it goes up and what what technically is happening is behind the scenes You are When you order short something you're saying to your broker and this happens all instantaneously in a split second You're saying to your broker. Let me borrow these shares. Okay, so I'm not going to pay anything for him He's going to borrow them from you And I'm borrowing them at $30. Okay The price drops to 29 So I buy so I buy it back at 29. I borrow them and I sell them So I'm selling them at 30 borrowed shares. I make I make the 30 matter of fact The money goes in your account is if you made money It drops to 29 you buy it back for 29 and you made a dollar Just the same as if you're going for 29 or 30 and then you get the shares back you can back to your broker Um, the only thing about shorting is it leads to two technical differences that can can be a problem Number one is when you go to borrow those shares from your broker your broker has to have them Um in the past years gone by there was a pretty lax rule brokers. I think kind of for the most part just Pretend lended them to you which is actually called Naked short selling and actually became a pretty strict rule not to do because it creates um a problem Because it actually becomes what we call a derivative and I don't need to go to go into all this but it's like it's like options You're you're creating new instruments and if things start to fall they fall twice as fast But the bottom line is it is pretty strict rule now Your broker has to have the shares available At at their location and be holding the shares to lend them to you for you to sell them So that's one problem is you may get a message back from your broker saying shares not available Now every broker is different on this Um, some brokers are better at having shorts available than other brokers. It's one of the issues You might want to you know check into when you're Um researching brokers and for me personally, I suggest you research brokers Online do a google search. Look at the things that are important to you is importantly short The whole overnight is the cost more important than the speed. You know look at all these things um And the second issue with shorting is that you could be subject to an uptick rule The uptick rule is one of these jokes that's been in the market for I just such a pet peeve of mine this uptick rule When I started trading there was an uptick rule And what an uptick rule means is that if a stock is falling If the bid is dropping from 25 25 to 25 24 23 That you could sell The stock that you own that's not a problem But if you want to enter a new position By short selling If the uptick rule is in place you can't sell when the bid is dropping from 25 to 24 You have to wait until the bid upticks from 24 to 25 and then sell into that Meaning there's somebody out there who's willing to buy the stock and you're not forcing this The sales onto the market i.e. the market makers um, and actually the rule used to be slightly different for nasdaq or or um New york stock exchange orders Uptick was slightly different. I don't even know if that's still true today. Don't really care. Um, And then For a while and i'm going back a lot of years then they start a trial where certain stocks Revoid the uptick rule so to see how it worked it worked and then pretty soon the whole market They banned the uptick rule was gone And then I don't know when it started again But then they started uptick rule for extreme moves more than 10 and then certain stocks and Now to tell you I don't even know what the exact rule is when an uptick rule applies when it doesn't but If you go to short and you have an hour time getting short, you know, it's because there's an uptick rule in place Um, it'll generally tell you somewhere if you look there's different rules. Um, I to tell you the truth. I don't pay a lot of attention to it most of the time I try and enter in a way that um It's not in the middle of a free fall when I'm entering and melissa does the same thing So um, but just so you know if you ever have a problem if you think you know, man i'm I'm selling at 25 25 the business 25 25. Why is not happening? It could be because the bid has to tick up to 26 for you to get filled. Okay All right, any questions so far on that stuff so shorting We were on on orders types of orders, so I don't I don't want to go in over on I'm having I'm having to tell you around this question. Um Okay, now there now there's two other things I want to talk about with entering orders buying and selling And that is And one of the reasons I go into this is There's there's two reasons you know this there's the difference between actively and passively buying and selling Do you guys know the difference between actively and buy actively and passively buying or selling? Yes or no Just curious how much time it should take going over this actively and passively buying and selling Do you know the difference between that? Wait when you're active and just some of the terms in case you're trying to tell If you're actively buying or selling you're hitting the bid you're lifting the offer If you're passively doing it you're you're offering out you're bidding for something Okay, the Half knows half yeses. All right The only reason this is important for two reasons That with some brokerages particularly in some prop accounts that you can actually make money By bidding for a stock rather than Um Lifting the offer okay now what do I mean by that? Let me um Let me pull up a level two screen. Okay. There's a level two screen. Okay So this this got I pulled this level two screen like ages ago, and this is IBM I don't even know what price it's at today So IBM if you can read this the bid is 195 19 the offer is 195 24. Okay, so just so we get these terms straight If I want to go long and I want to enter this position, there's two ways to do it Okay, I can it's called lift the offer. You don't you don't hit the offer That's the wrong turn not that it matters But just for you fanatics you you lift the offer I could go ahead and buy this at 195 24 And if I'm the first one there, I am guaranteed guaranteed to get filled however many shares Now they only show 100 there and there's 200 there and blah blah blah So there's about 800 shares here if I enter in order for 800 shares And I beat everyone else there. I am guaranteed to get filled. Is that clear everybody? There's do you see what I'm saying? Do you see that these are hundreds? So there's 800 shares On the offer at 195 24 And if I enter an order to buy 800 shares of IBM 195 24 and I beat everyone else there It's guaranteed. I will get filled at 195 24. Is that clear? There are no tricks. Nobody can change their mind. Nobody can say oh wait a minute. I don't want to sum to you Is that clear everybody? I'm not getting I'm when I'll get an answer. I'm not sure if you're confused or if I'm stupid or Clear clear clear. Okay, because it makes a difference. Okay Um, the other way to buy something is to say I don't want I don't want to do that. I'm going to go over here in bid at 195 19 And hope that somebody who wants to sell is going to sell to me at 195 19 Now there's advantages and disadvantages to doing that. Okay, right. It's called bidding for something sitting on the bid Yeah, right on sitting on the bid. Okay. Now, this would be the passive way of doing it Why in the world would you ever do that? There's a clear disadvantage, right? If I buy 195 24 boom, I'm in the trade Right, I'm in the trade if I bid 195 19 I'm not in the trade. I'm letting somebody else make the decision To get me in the trade by selling to me. Does everybody see that big disadvantage? I'm not in control of my entry I'm saying I'll get in And because I'm going to save five cents. I'll get in anytime you say it's okay to get in by just hitting my bid Is that got it? That's that's the one big disadvantage. You're not controlled the second big disadvantage is you may never get in the trade Because what if the stock's moving up? Nobody's ever going to sell to 195 19, right? So you may say, what are the advantage? Why would you ever do that? What's the advantage? Well There's only two reasons you'd ever do this and one is because if you have an account that pays you to add liquidity Instead of you know, when you when you get your statement you pay these ecn fees in other words Your your commission may be three or four or five dollars whatever it is And then there's another two dollars and 35 cents for an ecn fee. You guys all see those if you know what i'm talking about And your broker will tell you well, that's the commission and then we pass on exchange fees to you, right? Well, it's possible instead of paying those fees. You can get paid those fees You you have to have a broker that's doing that and and that is called getting paid for liquidity And if you bid 185 19 and you get filled at 195 19 you will actually make two dollars 35 cents per thousand shares instead of paying it Does that make sense? And yes, i'm not kidding you. I'm serious, right? Ron's done it, right Ron? I've done it You can do that make sense So that's one reason and that's almost a different type of trading that that's almost like where you're you're into this Scaled mode and you're playing market maker. We call it where you're you're buying at the bid selling at the offer And you're always getting filled that way, okay? so The other reason what would be the other reason you'd ever do this somebody And and in this case forget about getting paid for liquidity What would be just a normal account and you got to pay no matter what? What would be the only other reason that you would bid for something? There is another reason And I do do this sometimes for this reason. What's the other reason? Well bidding to exit is short. It's really Not a different issue than if you're bidding to enter along. It's the same issues, right? You may or may not get filled somebody else's control, but true you you could bid Either to exit your short position or to get into a long position, but it really doesn't It's not a different set of parameters. It's the same issues, right? The other time you'd want to do this guys is when there's a big spread Right if you're in a $20 stock and it's early in the morning and there's a 15 cent spread You're literally paying that 15 cents to play the game Now I'm not saying it's also the smartest thing to do But that is another time when you might do it a stock, you know falls and you're willing to get into it You bid for it and you Capture that 15 cents as it were so if the stocks at $20 and 15 cents by $20 and 30 cents you bid 15 You get filled. Well, maybe it's worth it because you're saving 15 cents or whatever it is So that's the other time when you have a widespread. Okay, so just FYI We'll come back to this tradeability slide a minute. Okay Actually, I think we're there right now Okay, so The way most people do it is you're actively trading you're hitting the bid or you're lifting the offer But if you want to passively do it, you're sitting on the bid or you're you're offering out Okay Let's talk about liquidity and then we'll talk about the types of orders market order that type of stuff Um Tradeability, this is a formula. I this is I made this up. So you're not gonna see us or else tradeability equals volume plus spread plus depth plus Thinness or actually I should say thickness. That's really the wrong word there Does that make a hundred percent sense to everybody? Yes or no, you understand every word on there and what that means and How that equates to No, no. Yes. No, no Okay, let me let me run through what it means when you're looking to see we're talking about tradeability. We're saying Can I trade the stock in other words? Sometimes the stock trades So poorly so thinly that you don't want to get into it because the spread is 20 cents And you're not going to pay 20 cents spread to make a 20 or 30 cent move on the stock It's it's not going to work So there's times when the stock is too thin. So one of the first things people look at is the overall Volume of the stock That is a good first indicator, but it's not the absolute indicator in other words The issue becomes how many shares you want to buy if you're buying 200 shares or something You can practically buy or sell anything on the planet, you know for 200 shares Because there's always somebody sitting there for 100 200 shares But you start buying 2000 3000 4000 5000 shares Getting filled now becomes an issue because When you normally would have just sold 100 you get filled now if you go to sell 3000 Well, maybe there's only a thousand sitting on the bid and the question is what happens to the next 2000 shares Are they going to get filled or not going to get filled with a price? So You really want to look at all these things number one the overall volume is is something to look at And if you're going to be trading three four thousand shares, you better be trading a stock that's trading You know two three million shares a day or something like that But even that's not a guaranteed rule because there are stocks You could look at two stocks that trade two million shares a day and they could trade very differently So there are things you want to look at Are well these other terms in here the spread is the difference between the bid and the offer Okay, obviously a perfect spread to be one penny. It's bid at 25 25 it offered 25 26 That'd be perfect one penny is as tight as it can get they can't overlap right But even if the spread is tight that may not mean a whole lot because And again, I don't well, let's take IBM and just use the terms um the depth means After the high bid drops off what comes next and for IBM in this case is one penny lower So in that case the depth is is good You're only dropping a penny and then you drop three cents. Well for a $200 stock. That's nothing All right, so that's what we're looking at by depth is after the high bid and let's take a $25 stock If 25 25 is the high bid. Well, if all those businesses appear I hope 25 24 is there and then 23 and then 22. Do you see what I'm saying everybody? So that when the 25s run out there's something one penny below that Okay And then the thickness is how many are at each level So if I'm looking at you know right here in IBM, there's only 100 shares in 19 And there's only 318 and then 150 So if I'm going to sell a thousand shares And I sell them all at once with a market order. I'm going to be down to 11 for 500 of those shares Does everybody see that? Whereas if I were to buy right now I would get 800 shares at 24 and then the rest of 25. Does everybody see that? So that's overall volume spread depth thinness and there's one other thing you really have to look at too And it's not listed as a thing because it's not really Another thing to look at it's a timing thing Does anybody know what the other thing you should really watch if you don't know a stock And you're concerned about the liquidity You know because you know when you're concerned about liquidity Getting in isn't always the problem. Sometimes you get in It's when it stops out and it's flying You know at the speed of light and you can't get out. That's the problem So you want to what's the other thing you want to look at anybody know Anybody have a clue All four I'll give you an all four of these things could look really good when the stock is sitting there Just it's cruising along. It's not going up. It's not going down There's a bunch of people buying at 195 19 bunch people selling 195 24 What do you what do you want to check as folks if you can if you have the opportunity Watch it when it starts to move Watch it when it drops a little bit and see what happens Sometimes a stock especially during the morning when it starts to drop a little bit That spread goes from a penny to eight cents The Depth goes from every penny to every nickel Does that make sense everyone So if you see the stock drop if the 25 dollar stock drops 10 cents But The level two screen stays intact and you still have good volume spread dip thickness Well, then it's probably okay Right. Yeah, Ron's rephrasing when it's moving doesn't stay solid forgetting it out. Exactly, right And if it doesn't then understand that it may look okay, but it may not be okay when it starts moving, okay All right, so let's go on here to No matter if it wasn't was it one of the questions Did I do the two questions or what's the other question? Yeah, right here Are you using market orders or stop orders? Can anybody tell me Is this a new trader or Anybody tell me what's inherently wrong with this question. So when I see this question, I know this is a very new person What's wrong with that question? Are you using market orders or stop orders? What's wrong with that question? Nobody knows It's kind of like if you went to a restaurant and the waiter asked What kind of wine would you like would you like your wine to be red or medium rare? Yeah, they'll be excellent. Right. Yeah, you guys are getting it now. You're as I'm saying you're getting it These are not opposite terms They're not opposite terms market order and limit order are opposite terms Right a stop order can be a market order or a limit order So when you say and this is a very common question I get is do you use a market or a stop order? And no, that's that's not a question You could have a stop market order, right? So the real question is isn't a market or a limit order and let's go over that real quick because that's another And this is where I remember I promised you that I would have a question that I think 75 percent of you get wrong I'm going to sneak it in here pretty soon. So be ready for Where are we move? How come this won't move? All of a sudden there we go. Oh, that's why okay So market order and limit order first of all are the two opposite terms. Okay Market order is real simple What you're doing is you're saying to the market maker or the specialist you're saying to the market I want to get in this stock right now At any price you feel like Okay, I have to get in or I have to get out whatever it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you're entering or exiting This is irrelevant in this case. Nobody cares in this case But you're saying a market order means I want to get in so the only thing you need to specify in your order is how many shares I have 500 shares market order by yourself That's all that's needed, right? That's all you need to say Dear market maker, I have 500 shares. Sell them At market go that's it And the good thing is you will get filled You will get filled Guaranteed you will get filled. As a matter of fact, that's one of the rare times if you don't get filled You can go complain to somebody and you know have something fixed What's the disadvantage of a market order Ron? I think you know the answer all these questions I'm gonna somebody else take a shot at because you You pretty much have the answer correct there. Yeah, yeah, right you're gonna get filled for sure But you're not real sure where you're gonna get filled Right and this is especially true if you're trading a thinner stock or if you're trading something You know in a fast-paced time like first thing in the morning Um, because you're basically saying hey fill me whatever, you know, whatever you can fill me. I'd fill me. I don't care So you get filled but you don't know where and before we talk about pros and cons Right, right, Dale. Exactly. Let's talk about the other the other way to do it is a limit order Okay With a limit order you're saying that I want to get in but wait a minute. Mr. Market maker. I'm only going to pay so much I'm going to put a limit on what I'm willing to pay. So if the stock is currently trading 25 24 by 20 I'm sorry. Yeah, 25 24 by 25 25. So forget the dollars 24 cents by 25 cents I want to get in right now and I want 3 000 shares which I've specified Um, but I'm not willing to pay more than 0.27 So you need to fill me at either 25 words at or 26 or 27 3 000 shares So go do it And what will happen then is you'll put your order out in the market And if there were 3 000 shares available at 0.25 0.26 0.27 and you're the first one there you will get filled That's guaranteed Now don't forget some people think they get screwed. You don't always get screwed. Sometimes somebody beats you there This is all computerized. So in this case when you're seeing a level two screen, you're not getting screwed But if you don't get filled if you see 3 000 shares there and you hit it and you don't get filled It's because somebody beats you there But keep in mind let's say that there were 500 to 25 there were 500 to 26 and 527 You only get filled for 1500 shares, correct? That's all you get 1500 shares What happens to the other 1500 shares everybody? You see i'm saying you say mr market maker i'm going to limit this to 0.27 Order goes out in the marketplace. There are only 1500 available between 0.25 and 0.27. You got filled for 1500 What happens to the rest of the order? Yeah, well for most people I mean you do have an option. There's something called an all or nothing order where What you would say is Filled me for what you can then kill the rest of the order that most people don't do that. I don't do that um, but what happens in that other 1500 shares stays out there on the bid Waiting to be filled So you'll be sitting there waiting and if the price comes back down you get filled if it doesn't come back down then you never get filled okay clear everybody and actually the huge advantage to a limit order is of course the reverse of the disadvantage of market order and is that you can Put a price on what you're willing to pay and not get Screwed as Ron put it if you get a bad fill on something Um, and by the way, sometimes you're not screwed. Sometimes it's just what the market will bear, you know, and sometimes you get screwed but At least with a marker or you're filled if that's what you need to be with a limit order The disadvantage of course is going to be the reverse of the advantage of a marker or which is that you May not get filled for all the shares that you want it, okay Which leads to the next key question that everybody in the world always asks Which is how much of a limit should I put? I know there's a couple questions that I'll get to in a minute By kind of my eyes half closed when I'm thinking here How much of a limit should I put? Well, this is something folks that I cannot answer for you as a number if I said you oh you give it two cents That would be an idiotic answer. You should tune out of this Room and say that guy's an idiot. I can't tell you what the number is for two different reasons number one Every stock is going to be different, right? I mean if there's a five cent spread and the stock then the next level is nickel away from that. I mean You know It may simply Not be possible to get filled within two cents or three cents or one cent And the other big issue that you have to decide it's a personal issue Which is how much are you willing to pay for it? Right? It's kind of like, you know ron goes to buy a new car And he goes to buy a jaguar and says paul I You know, they're selling them for 120,000 What's the most I should pay for and well, I don't know ron I mean what You know, maybe if you don't pay 120, you're not going to get it. Maybe they'll come down to one You know, it's a matter of what are you willing to pay to get the car? You know, I don't know Whatever you think But it's the same thing in the marketplace um When you put a limiter out there you have to ask yourself, okay, if I put three cents And I don't get filled But I would have got filled at four and this goes on to be the play of the day and runs 80 cents How mad am I going to be that I miss the entire play to save a penny? That's one question you have to ask, right? The other question you have to ask is well Am I willing to spend 10 cents for a play that's only going to move 20 cents? See and this is where you have to decide a lot of comes down to What your risk reward is on the play in other words when you're taking a a 50 cent stop amount On a bigger stock to run it, you know $2 and 50 cents Well paying a dime is not a big deal, right? Because you're talking about a five reward to risk being brought down to a four point something reward to risk, right? But what if you're looking at a smaller stock and you're looking at a 20 cent target? Or even got even a 30 cent target And you take a 30 cent target with the 10 cent stop and then you add 10 cents onto the entry That's 10 cents onto the entry 10 cents off the target. Now you're a one-to-one trade instead of a three-to-one trade. You see what I'm saying everybody So there's there's just a first question that has to be asked Which is what are you willing to pay? First of all period where whether you can or not or whether it's doable or not What are you willing to pay what what makes sense to you to do? And then the next question becomes what do you have to do to get filled? So you may say okay looking at this whole situation I'm willing to pay six cents to get in this because you know I'll get mad If I could have got filled at six and I put a limit of four I'm gonna be mad if I don't get filled And if it takes eight, I'm willing to skip the trade. Do you see what I'm saying? So you got to decide that first then the next question is okay. I'm willing to pay six cents Do I really have to do that? And this is when you look at the level two and you look at the spread the depth and the liquidity overall And you say to yourself, you know what? This thing ought to get filled within two three cents. It just ought to get filled. Okay Now the other thing to keep in mind is You don't have to get filled on that initial second you hit the trade. It depends how you trade again If you trade all Breakouts breakdowns high that a low of the day and when you get into something it's already moving You may never get filled If you don't get that initial fill, but if you're taking other types of entries on pullbacks Before the whole world is getting longer getting short with you Most of the time after that triggers like if you want to order out there for 4 000 shares You give it a 2 cent limit. Maybe you get 2 000 shares. You let it sit there and 20 seconds later you get the rest of shares um, if if you depending on the type of trades you take That probably happens 90 percent of the time Okay So does that make sense everybody? So this is a huge question, but it's not a yes or no answer I can't tell you what To give a stock in terms of a limit order Because first you have to decide based on your order as the trade what is okay to you to to do In number two then you have to look at the level two screen in the overall trading the stock and say well How tightly could I get filled right? Make sense Everybody Now here i'm not sure I went over a lot of stuff. You guys understand. Please a little feedback. Do you understand totally? Repeat the whole thing. Do you have a single question? Was it a revelation? Was it wow? I learned something was that this is boring. Get me out of here Got it. Got it. Everybody got it. Okay. All right. Did you learn something here was just like I got my head on the desk sleeping here I get these questions all the time. So it's a matter of, you know, of who's here. Okay So that's limit versus market quick question. Um, which is faster If there's a difference a limit or a market Which is faster if there is a difference between a limit or a market If who's gonna get filled first in other words, who's gonna get filled first assuming you get filled at all Who would get filled first? Assuming you get filled at all Who gets filled first? Market or limit everybody answer this all you in here. I want to see a bunch of answers out there Who gets filled first market or a limit assuming That you know, you you get filled. I mean, obviously if you put too tight of a limit, but assuming you put a limit You give enough limit that you do get filled who gets filled first to be limited or market Come on Nobody can see your answers with me. So When I call out your names and type them in the room and make fun of you don't worry about it I'm not gonna do that. Yeah, man Ron. How long have you known me Ron? Geez you're like the A couple other people got it right. I don't know amazing Yeah Amazing the the typically I don't know if you guys are smarter. Maybe I said this once before as some of you listen to me, but um 90% of the time people will say market or because it's just what it obviously it's a market or of course It's gonna get filled first. That's what you use it for. No um A limit order actually believe it or not Is quote unquote faster now. I put it in quotes for a couple reasons number one if you Actually talk to somebody in the market who knows this up and down they will give you an answer I was at this get together once and I've known, you know people that are in the brokerage business and I know people that eat this stuff for lunch and they could sit there and talk to you for 35 minutes about exactly What route will fill what first and what order and all the exceptions and that's what happened When I asked somebody his question and boy, did he know what he was talking about He went on to every route and when it gets filled first and when it gets filled second when the exceptions come in And there's all these rules that are just so incredibly ridiculous today that it's not a big difference today Okay, but I want to point out that historically it has been a big difference a limit order gets filled first And even today even though it's very muddied that you're still better off at the limit order in terms of getting filled first It typically goes the front line here's historically why it is Because remember the wording I first said when I said a market where you're saying to the market maker here You go, sir, please fill me anytime you wanted at any price, but fill me Well, guess what if the market maker is any discretion at all, you know if it is able to be finagled Is he going to fill you as low as possible or at the stock balance and fill you as high as possible You can fill you as high as possible, right? So That's historically where that came from and there's never a rule to prevent that So the limit order is time to go the front line market orders to the back If you're trading liquidity, it doesn't matter, you know, there's so many times it just simply is not going to matter But the only reason I bring it up is that so many people say i'm using a market order because it's faster And that is incorrect. I just want to get out of your mind that you need to use a market order Because it's it's better. It's it's not better It's a guaranteed fill now everybody putting your thinking caps for a minute If a market order is not faster Is there any way you can take a limit order and make it The same as a market order and then have really the best of both worlds and really the only thing you should ever use I see your question. Dale. I will I will I see your questions guys. I will get to them Just just stay with me a minute here Because again, it's not going to matter if we're going along and going short. That's irrelevant We're entering a position You follow me Dale. We're entering a position and I don't care if it's going up or going down the question is How much are you willing to pay to get into it? Nope Guys I have I have not used a market order my whole life I can duplicate a market order if I want to by using a limit order and giving it a I don't know say 50 cent limit Dollar limit five dollar limit. You see what I'm saying You can just use limit order and now do I really use a dollar limit? No I use a reasonable limit But let's say for example, you're using it as a stop order and I'm not at the screen Well, I want to make sure I get filled so I'm not going to put a stop limit and we'll come to stop in a minute But I'm not going to put a stop limit with a one penny limit because I mean I get filled But you can duplicate a market order by putting a really wide limit and then you will get filled better Sometimes you'll never get feel worse. We get feel better sometimes And you will always get filled And then when you're so the bottom line what it comes down to is and again If some of you disagree with me, you've been trading a long time. That's fine Again, I'm talking to a new person if you have devised your own system I don't need to hear it or you know, whatever that's fine But here's the golden rule when you get into a trade you should use a limit order With a limit set to the max that you're willing to pay Okay When you get out of a trade you should use a market order Or quote unquote if you understand how to do it use a limit order with a with a limit that duplicates a market order By being so wide that you're never going to get have a problem. Okay Make sense now real quick. I'm already like at the end of my time here Let me take a couple of your questions and then I want to discover stop Let me go back here. You guys have a bunch of questions. I miss here. Um Okay, dale Again short or long doesn't matter at all. It's it's not relevant I don't even need to even bring the term up ever. It's entering a position exiting a position Okay, and you're entering a position dale. The thing is you don't have to get into it, right? You may want to get into it, but there's a price that you will say I don't need to get into it, right dale When you get out of something and you're stopping out you have to get out of it Right, so it doesn't matter if it's long or short. The issues are the same It's it's longer shorts are relevant. So whenever you enter a position I think you should use a limit order with the limit set to whatever you're willing to pay And don't be too cheap sometimes people It drives me nuts when somebody says they miss the best trade of the day the stock runs a dollar Everybody's applauding how much money. Oh, I missed the trade because I gave it a one penny limit. Well, why did you do that? You know if you could go back in time and spend three cents, would you spend three cents? Oh, yeah, of course Well, why didn't you do it initially right? Put up a front initially you're not going to automatically get screwed But put up initially what you're willing to trade because it can be just as bad of a sin To miss a trade as it is to spend too much to get into a trade, right? Make sense Now the next in run the next thing I'm talking about real quick is a stop To summarize stop just think of this very simply is a stop means Computer do this for me. That's all it means Now it gets confusing because we talk about stop orders meaning if I'm in a trade I need to put a stop on it So I really hate this term that they have in the broker side that says what a stop order is A stop order has nothing to do with your stop order. Does that make sense? In other words, you need to get out of a trade and you want to put a stop order on it Yeah, exactly one car. You're right You're right. That's what I yell people for, you know You wouldn't pay the one penny and then you missed an entire trade that made your whole week It's you know, there is a limit. I mean, you know, you're not going to pay up too much But these people are trying to stocks for one penny when the thing's going to move a dollar. It's silly But anyways might I digress Um a stop simply means mr. Computer, please do this for me So if I want to do a market order, I can make it a stop market order by saying I want to get it at any price, but Mr. Computer don't tell the market that until it hits 25 25 So the stock's going up. It's a 25 20 21 22 I have to go to the bathroom So I say mr. Computer if this thing hits 25 get me in So I put in a mark a stock market order that says When the price triggers 0.25 I'm going to set my computer is going to center the market for a market order to buy Now and I'll get filled Simple enough, right Why would you ever do that? Well, when you have a play in place and you need to leave for the day or for an hour or for five minutes You typically put a stop market order in place So the computer will take you out of a trade A stop limit order Is the same thing. It's a limit order that can do computers in a journey But now we need two numbers. This is where it gets a little confusing to some people You're going to say dear mr. Computer If this price goes over 0.25, please Buy these shares for me, but I don't want to pay more than 0.27 So now you have two numbers that go in the stop amount is 0.25 the limit amount is 0.27 So you're saying your mr. Computer and mr. Market Well, actually the market doesn't hear this because you're saying to the computer mr. Computer, please When the price hits 0.25 Please send a limit order to the market to buy now both the limit of 0.27 Make sense So I don't I don't use a stop order Unless I'm not there or unless I'm so bored. I just can't sit there with my finger on the button anymore. Okay Also most of the time not everybody will tell you this but most of the time professional traders Um that even though there is a number that I'm saying I'm not going to go long until this number I'm not going to short till this number Most of the time there's this thing that comes in and Ron. What's the word I'm going to use And it happens so quick and it's such and this is something I teach in my advanced management strategies class um That you you you can't type it to a room of people you oftentimes can't even yell it it's just The word is anticipation That even though i'm not going to buy to 0.25 sometimes you see it coming You see the bids build you see it happen and sometimes you you jump the gun by a penny or two So if you have a stop and you can't do that if you if you are doing it What we call finger on the button, which would be not a stop order then you can do that Um, it's oftentimes is not critical where it really matters more sometimes if you're shorting something at the low of the day You're buying something at the high of the day sometimes that surge comes in you may not get filled So you got to be smarter about how you do it sometimes. Okay I need to quit here So let me draw a line and stand right here. I'm just going to quit I will take any questions either new questions that you have or questions you asked and I missed by mistake Because a lot of you started asking a lot of questions and I think I got them all So Is there anything you want to ask me and if you don't have anything to ask me did you enjoy this? Did you learn if you learn one thing? I'm happy. Did you learn one thing at least everybody? And or do you have any questions I missed or you want to Discuss That was your chance Ron you just like hearing me talk because you knew all this stuff Okay, time will say again some of you have been training a while Maybe you learn one thing and if you did you know what it's worth an hour Right and so if a lot of you are new and a lot of you learn a lot of stuff And so some of you may have been over your head because if you're brand new I imagine this is a little over your head, but at least you know what the issues aren't what you have to learn Um, good. All right, great Cool, cool, cool. All right guys, um I'm gonna sign off If you want to go over to traders accounting, they're doing a talk about taxes and how to set yourself up Which I think is a great thing. I've known Um, I I don't personally use them because I was set up to do this before I knew them But I've known traders accounting for 10 12 14 years or something Um, jim crimmins is a guy over there and uh You know if you want to go listen to him go listen. We don't get anything from it It just it just bended it to you if you want to go listen to him. Okay Thanks guys Thank you much and um for those of you for those of you that are new new new um Our next class is going to be a week from next weekend the golden gap course I know some of you are new new here and just listening in That's going to be coming up the 13th and the 14th the email Melissa if you're interested or me if you have any questions and um You can pick up the uh for the next week or you can pick up the wealth class for free As part of that that's a it's a three or four hour class that melissa does okay And if you're brand new and you are interested in trial email me or melissa or info at stocks wish And we'll see you by getting you in for a trial if you haven't had one before okay guys Thanks a lot have a great evening and uh say hi to everybody over at the accounting place You're going over there and we'll see you guys in the morning for those of you in the room. Take care