 October 4th select board meeting to order. We've got Flo Smith, C. David Sawyer, Justin, myself, Justin, and then any additions or changes to the agenda? Oh yes, there's three additions. We have a request for a letter from the select board for a Mrs. Lassard on the Junction Road with regards to a permit that the Montpelier treatment plant has applied for. She wants a letter regarding the air quality issue that she's having because of the current issues they've had this summer with air quality. She's already talked to a gentleman responsible for air quality with the state, and he has asked her for, okay. Okay, we've got the appointment letter in your packets for Mr. Warnick for representation to the Central Monterey Regional Planning Commission and the Transportation Advisory Board. I have talked to him. He has volunteered his services to the town for that again to continue that, and the May 17 minutes are also added to the agenda. Great, that's been the issue. All right, any public comment? Hearing none. Fire Department Survey report a presentation, so we've got Keith, Joe, Dan, it's here. It's just moral support, she said, so. All right, so the Fire Department, upon request from the discussion in the, I guess, 2020 town meeting, we did a study about the possibility of merging the organizational structure of the Fire Department with the town and government, basically becoming a town department instead of the independent corporation that we are nowadays. We spent quite a lot of time and looked at pros and cons from our standpoint. We also spent a significant amount of time looking at how can this department better serve the community, and that's a lot that came out of it. So we identified in through this, basically four goals we would like to see the department hit, maintaining or improving our current level of service, decreasing our response time, keeping the costs to the residents reasonable, and recruiting, retaining more responders, high quality responders who can respond at all times of the day. One of the things that the department staffing is a big portion, if you notice a little bit into it, about 30 years, about 15 years ago, we had twice the number of responders that we do now. And that's a trend that's not just in Berlin, that's really a national trend for volunteer organizations, fire services, even locally with like, Barry City for example, they used to have a lot more what they call call force, which is like part timers that they can call as necessary. They're down on those, you know, they have to rely on their full timers to cover additional calls more and more often, which increases their operating costs too. We looked at when is our highest demand during the day? Our highest demand during the day turns out to be basically during the work hours from 8am to 4pm. That's when we see the most calls. And that also is when our current responders were also working. So we have the least number of responders available. Another thing we looked at is how is our response time compared to basically national standard called NFPA, they would like to see volunteer rural fire departments get to scene in 14 minutes at 80% of the time. And we only achieve that 45% of the time. We achieve 80% of the time of 21 minutes, which means we have long response times at all times of the day. And then another thing we did during this study is we sent a survey out to the time of attendance to see what their satisfaction with the current fire department is, if they how they think the town's growth versus our model is working. And a few other questions that come of the big couple of the big top takeaways was and see what we had about 100 respondents. Yeah, we look slightly over 100 residents responded to this. So their top values actually was response time, our training level and quality of equipment. One of the things to note is that the tax burden to the residents was quite low, only 5% of the respondents was their top concern. Another question was, do you think the fire department can keep up with the projected town growth, the new town center, so on and so forth? As you can see, two thirds of the residents didn't think we could keep up. So in that we're basically looked at, how can we improve this? One of the things really is changing our operations, whether we merge or we don't merge. One of the things is we still want to keep the cost low to the residents, but we realize that we have slow response times, not as many responders as we used to. So we're looking at how we can staff the department with two responders during the work week. And how is that going to work? There's quite a few different difficulties with that, the financial being the biggest thing and benefits and so on and so forth. How can that happen? The other thing that would be an advantage to staffing is it would decrease our response times, especially during the work day, we would get a truck there on scene a lot faster. We would have the daytime crew basically do a lot of the housekeeping stuff a fire department has to do, truck maintenance, building maintenance, so on and so forth. It would increase the time that our volunteers have available to train. So instead of training once a month on Tuesday, we can train two or three times a month on Tuesdays if we have staffing to cover a lot of the housekeeping stuff, essentially. And how that works, we think we could do it as an independent corporation, but we also recognize that the town has a lot more power to support a daytime paid staff than we do. There's the financial stability is another issue in that you guys know our budget is approved annually for one year at time meeting day. And if someone is going to go full-time with us, they'll have once a year they'll be like, am I going to have a job next year? If we were merged, that wouldn't be a problem. So that's something that we also recognize right there. But you know our bottom line is to improve the service to the town and keep the operation reasonable, you know the cost reasonable. You have anything else, Joe? I think I think is putting in you know, somebody full time at that department, I think is is something that we're going to eventually have to do. I think with our current staffing, we could do something of basically signing up for shifts. And you might find individuals coming in from outside departments who have already been who are qualified, much like, you know, very town EMS, they have people that come in from, you know, Waterbury or Northfield or whatnot, they share personnel. I could see something like that happening too. I don't know if the model that we would be looking for would be just the merger with the town. I think that's the easy way out. Administratively, on my side, if I was looking at what I do, I think that the bottom line is you're going to have to pay somebody to staff that. And I think this next upcoming budget, I'm going to work with those numbers and see what that might look like and see what we can do. What we don't have control over is the daytime coverage. We have a small number of people that can actually make those calls. But what we do have control over, and this has to be a buy in from our whole department, our weekends and weeknights. Okay, so we could put people in there for a period of time and pay them a stipend of some sort. What is that going to look like? I don't know. It will be different than our regular budget that we present to the town. Because I think I was told if I if I incorporate that into the budget, there's a good chance it'll get voted down. And I was thinking, wow, what would I do with all that time? I think it's something we're gonna have to play with. And before we we go much further with it, I think presenting that to the select board at a later time would be, you know, appropriate for more discussion. So yeah, no, thank you. I know you guys put a lot of time in there to get this out. So I appreciate that. Very thankful for you. I had a couple of quick questions when it comes to the survey. They may have a couple as well. But what I wanted to see was, you know, you said that would be the top values, you know, we're talking about response times, training levels. When we say top values, I mean, we can look at this and this doesn't go drill down into the survey data that I was curious about that I'd like to see. Some more specific survey data I think would be interesting to look at. I mean, when I look at this, and I see the top values of survey respondents, one of response times, well, is what is that saying? What it like, for example, when I look at 27.2% as the top value, what what exactly is that 27.2% that was the most important thing that they were satisfied with it, that they thought are respond like where they where they thought the level of service was, what is that data saying? And maybe us seeing the survey to and I was wondering if additional surveys are trickling in, because I was thinking a hundred responses is low for the town. So there must have been a time period for people to respond. I'm thinking we should get a larger response. We did do a cut off on the time period for it. We got of course, you know, a lot of them, initially, and then I don't remember how long the hundred was, I think it was like three or four weeks for the hundred. It was sent out front porch forum did his electronic survey is what it was. Can we get a copy? We can give you a copy of the the full set of questions. We we included into this what we thought was the most important couple of pieces of information from the survey. We can give you a a full copy of the responses on all questions. Just because I mean, I know from just doing studies and surveys and things like that, you can pull bits and pieces and I'm not saying that you did or anything, but it's just good to have it all and look at it from a couple of different perspectives often times. The other question I know is Dave get into that is the training level was the other piece of it that was on here that was that was huge. And I know that you you mentioned that you're doing you can do training more than one Tuesday. If you add staff over there, create a what do you have training programs? We currently the biggest I think the biggest thing with the fire department right now is the there's a lot a little bit of unknown from the municipal perspective. So from a board standpoint, from a safety standpoint for the residents from even zoning perspective, right? Like when we're looking at our zoning and new properties and new buildings in town. Some of the things that we run into is we really there's there's almost a lack of communication or it's not not a lack of communication. That's not the right terminology. But there's there's a variable or an unknown there because you know what it's the training where's the fire department at what's their view. And it's siloed and it's a lot like a lot of our other departments here in the town that we're trying to work on pulling together. So, you know, I don't know what your training programs are, but do you feel they're sufficient now? Do you feel like there's room for improvement? Things like that? Could you get you know, one of the things on here is like, would you be able to get that support? This doesn't really show me where it's showing like any, maybe I'm wrong and just jumping to conclusions, but I don't see where this report shows. It shows that you need to make some changes in a municipal or not municipal. I can see that. Right. And that's good. That's actually probably the number one reason to do something like this is to recognize areas and improvement. But but what was the department's consensus? Was it did it make sense to be municipal or not number one? And if not, why? Why was it a disadvantage to the town? Why was an advantage to the town? Regardless, you know, did you do this report in a way where it was looking at it? Strictly not from the fire department standpoint, but from a town's perspective on whether or not it was advantageous to the town for the fire department to become municipal. So let me just the training part first. We'll go back to the other is there's a a national training standard. A few different levels called firefighter one firefighter two that the state of Vermont puts on. They are one of the numbers now Jan 160 for fire one 230 for fire one and fire two is like an additional 100 or so. They're the same training standards that the full time departments use. We have about three quarters of our firefighters trained to the firefighter one or firefighter two level. The training that we do in house is really called is really maintenance training. To retain your certifications, you have to do a certain amount of continuing at essentially a year. And that's what we do through our one training at a month. There is a an insurance ISO has how many hours they would like to see volunteer firefighters train a month. And we are not quite to that level if we had another training a month, we would be up to that level. So does that impact taxpayers and their higher insurance and the municipality? It's a small point in a large pool with a lot of other stuff. But it may have an impact. Yes. So I guess my question, I just want to follow up because we had the additional one. I want to know about the pros and cons in the standpoint perspective. Because one of the things you said when we open this up is that this you did a pros and cons from a fire department standpoint on this. And I was wondering if you did it from what you were considered municipal standpoint to whether or not you came up with a conclusion that was for the taxpayers or whether it was from a fire department standpoint. I mean, I know it was probably a combination of the two. So I'm not trying to like say it has to be one or the other. But I'm also also wondering wondering if it's something that we need to take a look at because it maybe was leaning more towards a different perspective than what the town is looking for. What we wanted was that we want is a report. We want an opinion on, you know, was it better or worse for the town, financial aid, fire protection, all of that to be municipal or not. Okay. And so did you did you do that? Or was it from a fire department standpoint? That's what I asked. I'm going to say that was slightly mixed. I'm going to say the department is in agreement that the current model is not working. Okay. And what would that be? I would say three years ago, they wouldn't even talk about being municipal. I'm going to tell you today is a very different story. It's a very different atmosphere. I think what what really drags the members down right now is, you know, a lot of the administrative or maintenance end of it. Yeah, the weeds a little bit. I can see that. Yeah. You know, they they want to train. You know, they want to go on calls or whatnot when available. Yes, they do. There was no clear, concise recommendation from the department of one way or the other. There, however, is not resistance like I thought there would have been. Like Joe said, three years ago, there would have been a lot of different answers. So I get that there's, I feel like there's this internal piece that we're talking about, which is resistance from the board because of the way it's constructed especially. Forget about that. What I'm asking is, is it the town better protected as a municipal department or as the volunteer department? That's, I mean, I think that's some of the information that we wanted. You see where I'm going with that. I think that it's really good that we recognize this, and that we do this. And because this is this has been probably, you know, you see your strengths and you see your weaknesses, right? But you always do to see where you can, where you're good, where you easily improve tremendously with minimal effort in areas where you need to maybe put more effort in. But but I think, I think, regardless of whether the opinion of the fire department or the boards over there, and the membership and what they want and what they see as important to them, I mean, that obviously plays a factor in whether or not things could happen in a certain way. But that doesn't change whether or not it's better for the town, and better for the fire protection, better for the municipality as a whole, based on your not your recommendation, but based on the data that you give to us, you know, honest data, truthful, you know, and I mean, it's hard to get it in that perspective, probably because it can be, I think it's clear by looking at the data that we have here that if we have a staff department, we would be able to provide faster, better fire protection. And what is our cost per capita with the fire department coverage? I do not know that. The last data that I had was that between ambulance and fire protection, we were about $170 per person. And that's roughly the same currently. So for talking additional expenses associated with this, I mean, currently, that's the same as what very city pays for their per capita coverage. And that includes ambulance. So once you start going above that, is there a model, a different model that we need to start looking at? Because I think I believe right now, we're at about $100 with the fire department, 70 with the ambulance, I think is what it was or something don't maybe inaccurate with that, but it was really close to the same. So that information and that data is something that the town would have to consider moving forward as well. All right, everyone, I'm sorry. No, you answered some of the things. Anyway, you said some things I wanted to say, but I'm looking at this top value saying it. And the way I'm reading this is out of out of 100 of the town's residents, the most important thing to them was, was the response time and then the level of training that the individuals have that are showing up on site. The end that I've sat over there and been on some of the board meetings and stuff and actually stopped on a couple of times of training means I can see where it'd be advantageous to you guys to have somebody in the staff department during the day to do this housekeeping and maintenance, truck maintenance and stuff like that to be able to provide more training during the training night. So I understand your struggles, you know, your volunteers showing up and you're having to look at scba hydro dates and you oil on the truck and everything like that. We're not able to do the training that you want to do because there's other stuff kind of I'm not gonna see it's more important, but it has to be done to maintain the equipment. A level of standard that you need. You have to maintain the readiness. Absolutely. Exactly. So, so the call volume by our data that's in here. Let's look it up for a minute just so you can understand it a little better. To me, it looks like maybe has there been a steady decline for the most part a trend where there's less calls per hour by volume in here as the years progress. I mean, 2020. I've heard of mine not black and white. So, yeah, well, it saves a minute though. 2020 appears to be 2020 was an on ball year because of covid though. We were down on all calls 2020 and covid by 40 percent and that was actually common among the entire fire service. Everybody that I've talked to numbers that I've seen is there was just not as many fire calls in 2020. I mean, it looks like 2019 was significantly lower. Right. Well, the other four years, one, two, three, the other five years are really, I think, more telling to look at than 2020. Okay. That being said, 17, 18, and 19 are lower than 15 and 16. So, is it trending down or? Yeah. And we have had, we're having fire calls trending down slightly, but EMS calls are trending up. So, how many EMS calls does the fire department do? So, we respond to 500 to 550 calls a year to include the Fast Squad call tones and the most recent years, it was about 200 on fire call and the three to 350 for Fast Squad. How many fast, you went on 300 Fast Squad calls? We were toned to 300 Fast Squad calls. And how many Fast Squad calls if there's 300? How many of those did you go to? I don't have that answer. Joe, do you have that? It doesn't need to be exact, but I'm just kind of curious. Not for the years of which you're looking at. Okay. So, this Fast Squad, is that during the day? Is that evening? What is that all the time? 24, 7. Okay. Is there any data that shows what, what these majority, because, you know, we're looking at 8 to 4 p.m., which is the majority of the calls. Do we have any data showing what, what the majority of those calls are? What, what types of calls they are? 40, the, our two most common calls are alarm activations for the alarm systems in town and car accidents, or our two most common calls. The structure fires slash fire calls, the 100 series calls. There's typically less than 12 to 15 in a year. So, those are our two most common calls. The actual numbers in those years, I don't know what the actual numbers are, but that's the trend. And those two right there make up about 60, 70% of our calls. So, I remember from the short time I was on the board, the dispatch is a big expense, right? Yes. Significant expense. Now, and I, from what I recall, I don't know, he even explained this to me so that I understand these guys well again as well. The, the FAST squad was, the FAST squad call volume that you have is significant. I mean, what if that 300 tones or calls for FAST squad is, that adds up to a fairly significant number, right? But a definitely a bigger budget item for you. You mean between for the dispatching? Yes, just the dispatching alone. Okay, the, those numbers are combined when they give us the invoice of course. Yeah, but and it's roughly how much per call? We came up with that number, about $100 a tone. Right, so it's just about $3,000 for the FAST squad tones in a year. Is that what you gave us the number of 300? Is that how many FAST squad? So, you get 300 FAST, FAST squad. So, there's 3,000. Yes, you're looking at a dispatch fee line item somewhere around 53,000. Yeah, so 30,000. And when FAST squad gets, when there's a fire call, what explain the difference between, I mean, if there's a FAST squad call, is there also a fire tone? Or is there a fire tone and then a FAST squad tone? Not necessarily, it depends on the type of call. If it's just purely a medical call, like a heart attack or stroke, it's only a FAST squad call. If it's a car accident, it's typically both. Okay, so what, you know, some of my questions would be, from what I remember over there, there was some times when maybe, maybe a lot of those FAST squad calls might be unresponded to. True. Very true, right? So, I see where, you know, we did a lot of work last year with the budget, I think. Mm-hmm. Did, like, really tuned it up and it was really impressive. And I think it's great for the fire department because we didn't cut anything out. We actually added value. So, I think some of that goes, I mean, if we're looking at these models and we're looking at maintaining, you know, growth with the town and maintaining, if you want, town support on any level, even if, you know, not on any level, but from this perspective, at least, there's, there's, there's expenses in there that are impacting the taxpayers that maybe could be money spent, I don't know, is it money that could be spent in an administrative role to help handle some of this where it would be, you know, better for the town overall. You know, out of those FAST squad calls that we have went to, that we did respond to, were we the first on scene? We're curious about that. You know, there's a lot. Not, not typically. It's a minority of the time when we're first on scene. Right. So, at what point in time do you go, okay, well, the town would be better served this way. We could provide that, that different level of service and I get it. You can't put somebody's life out there, you know, and there's a risk factor involved and you want to make sure that everyone's as safe as possible, but, but that data would be interesting. Because that's, that's, I do remember that piece of it. And if, if we're going to start talking about it, a more, a closer partnership in any way, whether it's municipal, non-municipal, we need to build a partnership. If we're going, I strongly agree with, this is interrogatory in any way, but I, the 67 and a half percent that's on here that wonder if the fire department can keep up with the girls of the town. Yeah. I didn't do the survey, honestly, because I knew a lot of the answers and what I thought, but I would definitely fall into that category the way it's currently being, not, it's not being brought in a bad way, but just the way it's currently, the current model is, the current model is not sustainable with the growth of the town. And that's, that's really a good concern for me, for this town in general right now. And along the same line, I'm thinking in terms of just what Justin said in terms of a partnership per se, whether it's municipal or not. Okay. Just looking at marketing and adding additional staff and bringing on additional people to assist in every way shape and form, and also training, you know, and how that would affect the budget. I mean, you obviously need more people, everyone who's there is doing a fabulous job, but more would be better. And at the same time, that means additional training, additional costs, time, etc. There would be additional costs and equipment, but additional training, not necessarily per se, because believe it or not, the, our Firefighter One and Firefighter Two, we don't pay for it. Our Firefighter One, Firefighter Two courses are run through the state or model, and they provide them free to the fire department. Wonderful. So, EMS, however, we do pay for it, but not, but not the Fire One, Fire Two. And then our, our continuing ed training that we do is, financially it's very good, because, you know, we're talking, all right, we're going to go out and run the trucks for, uh, uh, hose drills or something like that. You know, it's cost of running the truck and that's it. We, the board would have to discuss it, but I'm thinking in terms of a partnership, because obviously the town is expanding, and I can see where additional needs will be there, and if we can partner in a way that can help you in that regard, I think marketing would be huge to bring on additional help. You know, like, like we were saying before, it's the, the model of how can we get the call times down, how can we get better coverage during the day, pretty much the conclusion at, pretty much the conclusion at that point of having a staff at least during the day, that's a major expense, of course, for, you know, for payroll expense. How can that be solved? Is there a possibility that the town could have those employees, but we would still be a separate department? I don't know, but that's maybe a possibility. There's a lot of different models out there for how personnel are paid for. There's also the safer grant that federal puts out, which you can't guarantee you're going to get that because it's a grant, but they're typically a three-year funding right there that can definitely help out, and why wouldn't we apply for that if we're doing it? Last year's safer grant, their, their lowest priority was new firefighters, their highest priority was preventing firefighters from, current firefighters from being laid off, you know, the full timers, so it would be a more difficult sell to the feds for a safer grant, but it's not something you can ignore, of course. The problem with that grant is you have to have the funding mechanism to keep that maintained after the three-year window, so based on the current model, that would be a grant that you would be eligible for. Which is something I think that we should discuss. So in your opinion, this eight to four, what do you figure you'd have to staff? How many individuals would you have to staff to be effective from that eight to four period? Do you have anything? We were, we were figuring two, and you'd still be relying on the volunteers to also arrive at a later time, but two wouldn't be that different from Montpellier, and I think Barry runs for three. So are you done with your, these discussions at the board level in the fire department? Are you guys done with trying to gather this data and make a determination, or is this still an ongoing meeting or discussion or some committee? I'm going to say this is going to be ongoing for a bit longer. Well, just just with the questions of which you were asked about. I would think that you, you know, I would like to see from the fire department's perspective, I think the board, the board will also work on from the board perspective. We may obviously look at things from different angles. Regardless of your structure, regardless of any any opinions, history, all of that, I would, I would really like to see a black and white answer whether or not it makes sense why, why it would make sense to be municipal from for the town, period, right, from your perspective and why it wouldn't in like almost a just very clear from a fire department standpoint if it was municipal we could do this, this, this, this. There's the drawbacks of this municipal. We can't do this, this, this, this. If it stays at the same organization it is, but we get put the staff on it we say we need in order to get these response times or get the level of coverage that we desire there. If it's the way it says it does this, this, this, and this which we couldn't do if we were municipal, you know, I want pros and cons like not uh which might be really difficult with your structure when I get it. Not to catch up, but I think everybody's in agreement even said in the meetings that we can't, they can't continue to go down the road of going in the direction that it's headed because it's not going to work. Well, I mean that's why that's why we're in this discussion is to try to figure out how to come to some place. What we've made clear is that the current structure and model isn't isn't going to maintain and keep up with what the fire department feels that it rolls for the fire department or the town, but we don't know whether or not there needs to be that transition in municipal. Well, I think too it would be fair to the to the department is we have to as our board has to give them what it is we want to see and how to get there and not just say hey come up with a I completely agree. Yeah, and that's why I'm saying I'd like to see that from them because that'll trigger a lot of the questions for us. Correct. That's your specialty, that's your area. I mean I don't know anything about fire safety, but look what were you going to say, Joe? Well exactly that for us to come to you with a proposal I think I think I think the fire department needs to know what what is the expectations of the town and select for. So I think and I I agree I think that I'm assuming and and this is wrong because you shouldn't assume but I'm assuming that maybe the residents that are like you I mean everybody even if you're not a resident you can see the growth that's here in town you can you understand a little bit about what's going on in the community. I think that you know obviously you've worked with our zoning department you know how those interactions work when someone comes in does a building application and what they ask you know what they give you and I would what I guess I'm we don't know what we what we're missing because we're trying to figure out what absolutely is provided okay so so for us to say well this is what we need we want okay well it's pretty simple we want to follow an FPA standard response times and we we want that we want to know we want to know that we're on power with every other community department we want to know that we're on power the same level of professionalism as Montpelier-Berry right so well we don't know what that is you guys do though right I mean you guys know what what Barry does you know what Montpelier does I don't so when you want to know what we want out of you we want that level of protection at about that same price per capita so I think that by you guys bringing that information and that data back to us and telling us whether or not you can do it in your current structure or whether or not you would need complete municipal support whether it needs to be municipal or not and I and I don't know that either one is I don't know what the answer is I don't I don't have an agenda either way if it's better protection for our community and better for the fire department to keep the structure that it is that's great but if it's if it's not well then I'd like to know that too but I'd like to know that from the fire department's perspective and I think that's fair question to ask at this point in time so just so I understand you anyway if not the select board is looking for the same level of protection as Barry or Montpelier is happy you're saying I mean that's what we want to know that when we get response times or when we have a call right that I believe so I think we want to we want to meet the standards that are set because you know Barry Montpelier they're a staff 24-7 department they have a lot more people in their cities to cover that we have the b10s contract that's kind of a baseline if you're combining EMS and fire that we kind of would come out of our budget per se you know and to enable a 24-7 or firehouse here and keep it the same per capita and have a b10s contract I don't think can happen period so okay so is that because of our lower population a large portion is because of our lower population absolutely and I see that too it does it makes total sense so so I guess what we would be looking for is the level of coverage that can grow and maintain as we develop you know I don't know what we're going to need like what our business plan do you have our projected growth in the town of Burlun or is that Tom you know I mean it's all a lot of variables you know I also would like to see an expansion like I think it was great that you did the survey and 100 responded but I think it would be really important as we move forward to get the input of all residents whether it's you know several mini meetings or one huge meeting that's you know publicly announced and the residents come and really hear your presentation our viewpoint etc I think it's really important to include the folks of the town as well as part of the decision process okay so I want to make sure I go that I address your question as far as the level of coverage and as far as that piece we've been on this topic for a while so I think obviously that from all that you know we wouldn't be able to maintain that same level of coverage but I think that the data we want the specific on the data we want what you I mean you're a girl in the resident not that that is a deciding factor but yeah you kind of have a I mean everybody on that department has a good idea of where the town's going and where it's at today and you know that you're you can see what you can see what's going to work and what's not going to work in the future that's why you decided that your model that you're currently running underneath some some restructuring you know obviously you can see where the town is going in some regards to maintain at least the level of coverage that we have now or better in the future and continue to grow with the town so that's I guess what we would like to say if that makes sense I know you guys you guys do a great job and it must feel like we just I feel like I want to thank you I don't like I just want to get some information out there I think we all get a little bit passionate about it so you guys put in a lot of hard work and dedication I do thank you for that was anything else you want to ask? not at this time not at this time yeah okay thank you all thanks very much thanks for coming thank you RV technology's quote for the viewing discussion it's uh again looking for the approval to to move forward if possible is this this was able to sign and move forward on was the same discussion we had at the last meeting it is this is for the server upgrade for the equipment the other thing that I'd just like to point out for the topic of discussion is relocating the server equipment into one row right right now part of it's in it's part of it's in there part of the plan rows Mary but when they do this upgrade I'd like to reroute it to put it all in the the old bathroom I guess is what it is in the front of the building over there so it's all in one location so when they come to service it it's quicker easier more efficient that way as well it's all of that this is it is it's uh the prices are a little bit more obviously based on the availability of you know it's actually it's a little bit yeah much of where we we talked about around 15 brand right so we're that's what we have in the reserve is we have logic 17 again I know we're going to come to an ARPA discussion later but I think we can use ARPA forms for this as well just a real quick question uh because this is going back to another discussion on the possibility of using space at the mall is this going to affect this at all if that happens the easy answer is no because the second part of this discussion is also standardizing the equipment that all the staff has uh so that they can have access off-site so they can work from home basically we're looking at laptops um for everyone's standardized right so everybody gets the same laptop with the same software on it and we manage the access through the software as well so that if we have inclement weather we have another COVID thing we have to shut down everybody can have their laptop and be just like they're sitting at their desk yep yep so if they had to go over if we moved the hardware works over to the mall they pick up their laptops they walk over they sit down they log in that's all I wanted to know where is the exact figure that you folks quoted of the 15-3 yep but I didn't see the 14-3 it's 14-325 uh for products and services together there's a monthly fee of 448 um and then we ask in for 8355 prepay for the software and hardware okay what that doesn't include is what I just sent to part two it doesn't include laptops and the docking stations to standardize things we don't have a quote from them on that yet but it's roughly about either way this is necessary because the equipment that we have is past end of life already they can't even upgrade some of them update some of them anymore I'd make a motion to go with the rb technology quote if the numbers are specified in the poll and I'll second that discussion all in favor hi this is one that we talked about I was asked to go back and try to negotiate a little bit lower with them I was able to you'll see it in the adjustment I got I got basically 15 cents per capita off so for every resident we got a 15 50 cent discount for each of the years on there plus an additional month free so we went from two to three months free for the pilot program and then 50 cents off in day capita Dave you might not know I'm not familiar with it I'm familiar with this so what this is this is a basically a customer relationship management software and process management process management so it will help streamline any projects that we have on knowing it okay it actually should be a huge administrative tool there's been other municipalities that have had excellent reviews um town of s uh town of saint alton's I've talked to them and it you know you can pull up pretty much any data that you want to also would work I don't remember what would work with um like records yes so like it saves our records so if you want to record right again it's it's labor intensive up front for the staff to be honest we're gonna have I'm gonna have a lot of headaches with that at first um because you have to learn how to use it and it's it's a method of tagging everything but this software will also link to your phone system so we can we can upload the grand list into this if a resident calls in it wants to report a pothole it'll it'll register that call it'll have it if the same resident wants to call and pay his taxes it'll be there so by resident you can pull up see the activity you can also run other other reports directly from that as long as we enter it correctly and tag it correctly again the the town of saint alton's has been using it for just like 12 weeks they've established over between five and seven hundred uh records already with that so they're gathering a as he said they're gathering a lot of data right now that's going to pay off down the road for that and what's the cost associated with so it's the first three months are of no cost the next uh first year approximately totaling the cost of seven thousand forty dollars a year so that on page two I do see it on page two I didn't see it before so it was three dollars four dollars and five dollars instead of two fifty three fifty and four fifty but yeah understood so years three four and five it's twelve thousand twelve thousand six seventy two correct again this one we're just looking for an approval or not to move forward and are you going to be able to use any of the aquifers for this as well yes depending on the board's decision yes they don't qualify for aquifers so the way we had left it I believe you were not at the meeting and you maybe were a virtual flow was at the last meeting we discussed it they were at they were here we were happy with moving forward yes I recall but we wanted vets to negotiate right I do recall that and so he did I recall all that and thanks for all your efforts well done I make the motion to move forward with the proposal for polymorphic based on the discussion this evening yes the first one is is a hundred percent subsidy for the riverton village wastewater project and that's for the amount of that's the wastewater project for 34,000 700 and is that that's for the old general store right yes the second one it's for the asset management plan and that's a 50 subsidy and the hospital hill gravity line and there should be more details in your package it's 804 860 I'll just give you the third one as well same time that's a three acre stormwater project around the burlin town center that's a hundred percent subsidy so there's no town funds on that one and that's for 157 820 and again the details there should be more details in the package that you have the burlin town center I'll give you a map to hear a little bit okay now on our agenda under the public works board it says 84 6 but on the paperwork says 84 860 which one is the correct for the public works one she's got to be the 84 860 I think it's the 84 860 okay I'll just change it on the other I'm not very good at typing that's no problem it happens so I don't tell me I don't have previous discussions about this actually this would obviously is this fund the other 50 percent is coming out of the public works board as a place for us already in that current budget um I do believe that mine is going to be coming out of the public works board right it's not coming out of anything it's already from my understanding it's not the general fund it's already in their budget currently I don't know if they have it in the budget just because this is probably going to be more in FY 23 and it's it's an asset for them it's different than a general fund but there's certainly funds available in the survey mission definitely okay there's no issues there I'm going to make a motion to authorize the state revolving loan fund as presented for the village of rivet and wastewater project public works board assessment assessment management plan for hospital they don't have any line and the three-acre storm board project for the town center those in favor say aye motion carries so we've got roll in the shelter for right away we've got roll in the shelf acre we've got 35 point red um driveway access to buildings yeah this was a little bit unique if you look at the map this was approved before the recent building regulations went into effect apparently there's two options here the board is is not sure to be honest this can go in front of the drb for a full review because you can see that it's a it's a very narrow ban between two existing lots and the driveways will be side by side that access will be right beside the the next lots driveway as well so do they have a government there yeah yeah they have that so they they need they need access to the law right so they obviously got the permit and they just request them initial for the separated road so they they did the application they have a curve cut this is what they're asking for right now is the driveway and the curve cut that's why i would agree i would i would i would typically think that they i thought they came to us just basically no no that's why i said they have a building permit how could they have a building permit without access apparently it before the previous zoning right so they yep so i'll i'll refer this to the drb that they started i would concur yeah thank you makes sense on it the drb yeah right it's uh it's true star and joel baker here oh sorry sorry i didn't realize you were joining us yeah sorry about that so maybe you could help us out here just um and joel can probably speak more articulately about his lot um than i can but um this has been a lot that's been an existence for sometimes so what what is it exactly you're posing then because we're trying to obviously make use of it and put it up for sale we just want to make sure that we have access absolutely the developmental review board uh based on they're they're the ones that would typically issue the permit um for a new curve cut there's not an existing curve cut or dry you know this this i would have thought this is for you know basically maintenance typically when these come to that the select board they would be maybe someone's changing out of culvert um or or making a change i would have thought this would go into our zoning amendment drb based on being a new curve cut um so really i just want to send this to the proper channel so so joel baker here property owner um can you hear me okay absolutely yeah so so um the slot along with four others in the neighborhood about 25 years ago i think in 1995 maybe 26 years ago and as i understood at the time you know the subdivision was all set up it was a planned residential development or a pu d planned uh whatever so there wasn't a whole lot of extra permitting required beyond that was my understanding when i bought it now i'm sure stuff has evolved a little bit in 25 years but at the same time it's a pre-existing lot i would think i'm sorry it is it's not a new subdivision obviously it's a pre-existing lot it shouldn't be so it's it's it's and there's not even a right-of-way involved it's just it's a you know it's kind of in a regularly shaped lot that um is behind some existing lot so there's a you know there's a an access to it between my new neighbors but um i'm just i'm just wondering i'm just i just would like uh i agree i understand where you're coming from and i would be feel probably a little bit um frustrated or put off the poverty and issues but i think given given a circumstance the the what i would i would like to have to go through the developmental review board just go in front of them and see what they say and then if they they don't grant access or they don't they don't think for some reason that you should be doing it just so that we're following our proper procedure here now that then we can bring it back up in front of the board and the board can make a decision but i'd like to have them take go work through that process initially now is it possible for your zoning administrator just to make an administrative decision i mean a lot of times i'm not sure exactly how Berlin works but typically the za can approve stuff oftentimes without full drb review absolutely unless there's some trigger that will send it to the drb and i'm just looking at notes saying that it may need to go to the developmental review board um it may not have you talked to tom badowski about it at this point in time yes he's fully aware so so so i would have suspected he would have issued the permit if he was able to because he does have the ability to do that then if tom if tom can't issue the permit for whatever reason the next step in the process would be for this permit application to go to the developmental review board so i'm not sure why it ended up here at this point in time that's all i'm saying we're not sure either but so i apologize for that but i i i can clarify this with tom tomorrow because he's the one that said they need to go to the drb okay so vince vince vince can clarify welcome to call me tomorrow and you in the afternoon i'll have a conversation with him in the morning and uh if they'd like to give me a call i will have an answer for them if uh if you need time to approve it or if it does need to go to the drb you want to follow up with vince tomorrow on that we'd love to just you heard what he said right yes yes okay um i understand i understand your frustration why you want to get the problem we're not frustrated yet but it's just it's interesting whatever it can make it quickly we'll get started we'll get started now i just want to make sure we go through the proper channel with that thank you both yep thank you thank you welcome thank you all right half the fun usage discussion we asked for a little bit more detail i tried to put the summaries in there of each one as well i don't know if you have a chance to look at them yet i haven't had a chance to look at them looking at them now as you see that the server equipment and the polymorphic software that we just talked about are on this list they do they do qualify and then one of the other things that i spoke to tim a little bit mm-hmm isn't even a little bit less less broad than the paving of the riverton side across town mm-hmm um there are some other areas on the hill that we thought about being able to do some stuff with so i don't know if that makes sense to just look at on a smaller scale the paving is a pretty big project which i don't know if you can do the paving with our performs yeah i'm still going to find out the general infrastructure and then just resurface that so so i don't know if we want to look at it from a drainage perspective in some of those key areas especially and see what i almost feel like with the second round that might be good because we could see how well this this first section would be just considering how it holds up to the spring yep just a thought yep because if that section stays really good then it might be worth looking at with the second allocation that we get using some of those funds for the maintenance down the road i'll look into that if that qualifies because we also get for that section that we just did we're also getting some state funds for as well state funds in america we're all coming out of our pockets eventually well yeah okay we'll put another one we have anything right now for culvert inspection we have that started talking a little bit about i know we touched on it a little bit can you explain that i've got a call in to the regional planning commission for the two that were requested for the cost that was requested for these out here right we need a diver to go in and inspect those right beyond that no we don't right now um so i i've got to work with regional planning commission on a plan to do that the last culvert of the inspection was done though we do have the report okay good um it's 2016 the intent this winter basically we have some time i'm going to sit with tim because some of those i understand some of those culverts have been replaced but the records haven't been updated yet and some probably have not so i want to go through all of those from that inspection that said needed to be to see which ones we have replaced and then from there build a plan tim and a budget for the ones that we can replace ourselves and what that'll be and those that we don't think we can okay that's great well it'll be it'll be put into the the state program as well with the software the cbr regional planning commission yes because i don't update that report and get there and put as well to reflect that and then we can actually have maybe because we have almost 500 culverts in town if nobody knows that right figure out a five year and a 10 year plan exactly to go through them all my priority um so that that's what i want to try to build with him the other thing i was going to say is we should probably table the discussion at this point until all board members are with us for this this is just yes absolutely no i agree the good news is we still have a little bit of time right that's good yeah this this was we added this as a basically a meeting about a brainstorming discussion make sense um and i'm sure bintz has a running tally of things that we can do and that's great it's much appreciated thank you okay that's in your package so what you'll see in your package is the agreement that the uh attorney has drafted up to submit uh to mr. dusovich for signature on that it will start this year as we talked about in the last meeting and it's based on the municipal portion of the taxes and not the education that it's outlined in the in the program to do so the the impact right now will be we'll have to go back and revise and resubmit this year's tax bill that he's already received but we started it we started this year rather than at completion which is normal to get the full value a year earlier basically which i'd like to say well while we're on this topic again that the town needs to take another look at their tax stabilization policy uh and make sure it fits the i mean a lot of people's perspectives are that they're going to develop up here regardless um whether they're stabilization or not and some people say well maybe you look more at developing like structures or redeveloping as opposed to this this stuff you know one of the arguments when this passed back our first year on the board i think well was that they were going to build here anyway but we had let them go through the entire process checked off all the boxes fit everything to a T to meet the stabilization policy that the town has set in place and then after they had spent the money in the time with their professional staff and met all the requirements there were some people that thought that maybe we shouldn't give it that we shouldn't have them do this because they were going to build here anyway and i i think that the town needs to look at their stabilization policy um because they a lot of people this is a desirable area to build and we proud maybe we don't need the stabilization policy up here maybe we don't need one at all but maybe we need it for redevelopment but the only thing that's changed with this from our discussion is we just got definitive dates and our attorney's given it to the staff he's developed it because this again everything was approved went through the process but the agreement was never drafted and done so that's what this is and he'll be able to close this one out we can issue it as acknowledging the dates the 2019 dates and just putting a seal of approval on it yep and the start date because it wasn't the start date was never made clear so i don't have any more discussion i make a motion to go forward with the deuce of its tax stabilization agreement as presented tonight and the discussion surrounding second any discussion any further discussion closing in favor property yes so finally finally um the state came back to me with a program that we qualify for for a hundred percent buyout of that property that's provided that the uh the owner volunteers to sell it which i got a hold of the owner he came in on last friday and he signed the statement of voluntary participation to do this buyout how it works how the program works is they'll have someone come in do an assessment fair market value of the commission of the property including they will include also the cost to tear the building down make it a vacant clean lot as well that will be included at hundred percent but the buyout will work we'll get the money there's 28 000 roughly plus or minus and back taxes that the town will recover from the payment of the buyout he he will get basically whatever's left if there's anything left he will get that he'll get that he's okay honestly he's okay if he gets nothing he had to say he wanted me to send his regrets and apologies to the board you know that he had to abandon the place but it flooded a year before right after he bought it apparently in the basement had to replace two furnaces and all this he told me the whole story but he wanted me to refer his apologies to the board as well for this but he was he was happy to uh have the opportunity to work with us on this so this really is good for fence i brought this house twice to tax out and we haven't been able to sell it nope so kudos to vince for your job yeah definitely kudos to all of you very impressive also see it includes the it ensures the nation of a potential contamination of waterway in the future right you know and the floods it gets into the waterways there's potential that's an old building there was concern of lead right concern of this right so understandable thank you all so the objective is this is to get your approval to proceed with this and and move start moving forward i made a motion to proceed with the potential buyout of 4509 vermont route 12 property as discussed second fairly discussion those favor say aye motion carries initial planning i feel like we've had this you have you would ask for some additional information so i i got the uh i got the additional information attached from the application that tom had done on this so there's there's a whole lot of words to read in there if you haven't yet 2.4 is is the more detailed project description i think of what you were looking for initially yeah so we're going to select the plan commission on selective consultant right mm-hmm who would that be doing how do they how does that process for that don't no idea it should go out to at least three people for rfp right it's got to be over five grand so yeah we'll have to morning to that this is for the grant for that it's a 2k um contribution right by the by the time we spend 20 yeah yeah yeah so the questions we've done these in the past too right yeah yep just one word sniffing thing under 2.4 above the word approach in the senate's just about just changing the word to before town to the it's just a word sniffing thing yep i got it but that sounds good i like that that's when it was 18 i understand i think this one was applied for last year but we didn't we didn't receive it we were selected for this grant so this is the component of that may be a competitive grant all funding needed what other funding source made did you consider good evening gentlemen that's the new john so we are just rolling through this baby now and we are at the municipal planning grant we're at seven o'clock on the agenda so just uh we wanted some information last time we deferred this conversation we wanted some additional information on where specifically the grant is going to be so we are the planning was good for the municipal yeah where we're gonna move the plan was gonna be sounds like it's the entire town and we want a summary of what it would be so here's a 2.4 in that tactic we'll see it that's where the number is if you're closing for it otherwise we would just continue forward with your participation i suppose that's right he's just smiling just like his parents it's so true anybody have anything to talk about this i think it's great you know what that means i think john wants to make a motion or you might have questions he's just barely got here yeah we don't want to have a chance yeah he's quite got there yet um he was finding it in my packet here it's all right not a problem i'm just uh be on it be on it we're go a little deeper go deeper next one next one that'll give you time to look at it before you can uh next one so did we get the 2.4 and one of the things i just talked to vince about was if they you know making sure that the quality of consulting without rft what's that you know making sure that they're following that process of procedure ready for something like this i discussed it and thought it was important last one we did was 18 my understanding was they also they applied for this i guess the board of committee but we didn't receive it it's a competitive one as well so it wasn't awarded you know my yeah i understand your question if we're ready for it or not because it seems like we're moving at a relatively fast pace where things can get kind of lost in the process and we need to make sure that all the departments are working well it just seems like we have a lot of different things going on around the new count center all at once and we're in a lot of different grants and a lot of different balls in the air there is a lot and here's another one right i mean while it's it's great i mean what kind of position are we in to do something like this in the near future and honestly so this this kind of leads into the discussion i had with you earlier that i'm going to bring up in the round table well i'm so part of our strategy yeah okay so part of the process and why i wanted to know about this is i would almost think that i don't know if it would be benefit if it would be a benefit or if it's a detriment to have the same consulting firm doing one of these i mean a municipal plan for us that's already been involved in the town center maybe maybe sometimes a different perspective makes more sense of place sense has done less too right that's what i'm saying so i would i would almost i would almost think that it would be okay to i almost feel like it would be a good thing to do but i would like to see somebody else do it and not just because i we do have so many balls juggling in the air like you're saying we have so much going on i feel like that we don't have a lot of checks and balances in place so that if if we did do it my recommendation would be to maybe have another consulting firm take a look at it that's because i think that would be a bit different from all different perspective yeah we have to put it out for bid we'll do those three different ones we don't have to send it to them right but but i you do bring a valid point dog um i don't know what other information you would need to make a decision on that would would you like to have the the planning commission come in to discuss this further i guess i'm having a hard time visualizing all the different things going on right and where they are and where does this fit into the overall bigger project yes at some point we need to at least strongly consider moving the municipal center to the municipal offices or some town entity to the new town center but at what point in the future there's nothing over there right i mean this is like this is a 20-year plan really when you think about it you know that area and what's the sense of urgency well i'm just i'm just wondering if this is the the best way to spend our money right now and what that what that roadmap looks like what are the steps and where about the roads about the roads that we're going to talk about the roadmap okay later and we don't know what that looks like so just i'm sure i read the the facebook post from a community member about the school land transfer and you didn't see it i didn't see it either there was some discussion on you know whether the project would be dead if the the supervisory district didn't deed over the land to the town for a new entrance to the new town center okay yeah i i just don't know how it all fits together so so my my thought would be when i look at this i would i would i you're right i agree i i almost i feel like for the municipal planning we need to have almost another like we can't just keep going down the same path we're going we almost i almost want to have we don't know how it fits together and so another fresh perspective might not be a bad idea but i don't know that i'd like to have the planning commission to come in and talk about what i would do yeah yeah i mean where does this fall in the place you know the the new entrance and how does that change site perspectives potentially if we don't do that new site entrance because the school doesn't deed over the land and it changes the entrance does that change our site locations and does this make this invalid at some point or rule out certain spots based on i i don't know but i just worry that even though it's grant money for the most part we'd be thrown away right well two thousand of hours twenty thousand there's right where do i get that back no it's two thousand two thousand yeah so like i i recognize like it's a you know it's a it's not free money but it's it's paid for by alphamores rather than just for wind residents i just want to make sure that like you know we have some questions answer about you know timing i don't want to do this and find out you know or or have a few twelve years down the road or rush into this because we need so many other things down in place and we don't have any money for any of those things and speaking of timing when do you need the final decision so that this moves forward accordingly i'm not sure when the deadline for the application i can find that out because that's a valid point everything comes up on meeting table list for tonight the next time it comes up on the agenda why don't we ask the public commission to be there i didn't know if to have the planning commission here we'll talk about it in the meantime you can look at the date and i think this conversation is going to come up again in just a little bit yeah as well table list so thank you in line with what john is talking about as well thanks so much sorry flow no no see i told you there would be some discussion i anticipate approval of license permits vouchers and applications oh actually before we do that uh let's talk about the mrs lesard's letter request uh from the select board for the permit i just want to return to you so mrs lesard lives mrs lesard lives on the junction road near the malpillier sewer treatment plant they're they're applying for a permit she was notified as being a bordering neighbor they're applying for a permit to increase their capacity for treatment from areas outside of town and they've had a problem with air quality down there the residents her in particular with regards to the treatment plant this summer she talked to the state and the state recommended to her that she speak to her neighbors and uh get them on board with a statement to the state rep for air quality and also to her town select board to see if they would be interested in writing a letter in support of her approach to follow up with regards to the air quality because there's nothing in the permit or plan that addresses the air quality for the treatment capacity increase that they're that they're looking at so with that support she can go back to the state and they will they will talk to the city of malpillier and look into this about what can be done to mitigate some of the smell um that they're getting throughout the summer when they're when they're running the treatment plant i did i did i didn't think that their perspective have you done any research as to perspective she she's she's been to the the council meetings and such with those but uh they're and in her nice words as she said they really haven't uh provided any feedback with regards to the plan yet if the board agrees i'm happy to draft a letter that the board can review with regards to that in support of of her approach to address this and i will reach out to um i have the the state reps name for air quality to have a discussion with him what are his expectations that he expects to see in the letter that would help the situation out yeah i would draft a letter i'm not opposed to our involvement i appreciate that she came forward with her concerns and we can be helpful she's been a long time resident i guess she said she's lived there for 42 years or 44 years so next we have appointment to the central remont regional planning commission and transportation advisory board uh i spoke to bob it's a yearly um appointment that comes up it's due i asked him if he would still be interested in uh volunteering his time and efforts for the town in that capacity and he he did say that he was he'd be willing to do that if the board so chose to have him do so um i know we had had discussion around appointing people to the appointment process around things like the all the conservation commission and things like that do we advertise or get the word out that that was a this one in particular we we we did not i know what but bob has um he's looking for somebody yeah to to replace him actively he has mentioned he's actively looking so i know from our side no we have not done anything with respect to that but he has i know that he has so how does the board feel about that um potential appointing somebody without doing that about the other places to do that i think it's commendable in this regard given that um bob has the long-standing historical experience as well as that he's willing to do it combined with the fact that he's trying to actively recruit um i think we would be well suited to appoint him and thank him for his services at the same time that's my point i just want to make sure what i will do is i will include these positions in the monthly because it's a yearly thing right so i'll put it on there obviously to make it aware if you found a replacement bob would probably be pretty easy to take over and help him so it would be my my thought but i just want to make sure we address that since we have been pretty stern about that process in the past so but i will make this part of that going forward as well anybody wants to make a motion probably good i'd make a motion to appoint bob warwick to the central permount regional planning commission please second that motion any discussion all those in favor say aye motion carries we also need to uh transportation advisory vote make a motion to appoint uh Robert warwick to the transportation advisory committee our representative second any further discussion those in favor say aye aye motion carries i just want to back up because you were quick too because i did find my notes i do have the fact sheet for that monthly permit if anybody wants to see it as well for this water in my office i didn't make a copy of that because it's like six pages all right so approvals of licensed permits vouchers and applications i make a motion to approve payroll warrant 22-07 for payroll from september 12 of this year to september 25 of said year paid on september 29 2021 in the amount of 45,096 dollars and 50 cents also payroll warrant 22g05 with checks 21461 to 21497 in the amount of 136,195 dollars and 74 cents in addition september reconciled bank statements for the general fund and sewer water checking account and the september journal entry there's that second that any discussion those in favor say aye motion carries these rule of minutes for our may 27 we'll have to be removed from the agenda since john and i were absent but we do have the addition of the may 17th minutes to the agenda that we can approve we can approve all of the minutes from may 17th 2004 second any discussion those in favor say aye then submitted their by the state round table yep all right go quick we're gonna let them go first today i don't have a small pile of things um first item is um from the last meeting john uh with the police chief about another quote he did go out to um the one that i think you had mentioned mhq and he we do have the quote it should be a package it's about eight hundred dollars cheaper yeah so where is mhq from couldn't tell you i know that all i know i think it's washington county that uses them uh yeah wash it kind of sheriffs they were somewhere in vermont i don't recall they're as local as the other company yeah third company i had heard of was out of i think north madams mass and that's the one that was which was the one he was talking about so i didn't forward that one on but this one um i had reached out to a couple other departments and they were aware of this company and said others were using them so excellent that's amazing but we'll get we'll get with the chief and i think he's gonna go with them he's comfortable with him he's checking out good um the other one i don't know if you've uh had a chance to review the summary but from the meeting with mr cubby the history report is right here i did send you all a summary of that with a with an email saying where i think there might be some opportunity to clean things up a little bit okay so we'll spend some time on that and uh you and i complain about first yep but thank you for doing thank you you've got you've got quite a package if you want the details they're already here probably come on and talk to you and you've got the summary as well very much appreciated so that that one's done uh legal services uh we put it out the bed uh we've got one response from our existing uh firm they have they have basically instead of one person they have at least two uh that will will be willing to to service their rates um i know they've been with us a long time i checked with diane today they went up about $20 an hour in the new quote they were 200 they went to 220 don't do the standard for that the i'm not asking for a decision tonight because i know flow had asked me to advertise with the mark buyer association i had to wait till the hang up back with the company credit card because to do it online it's about to 150 bucks i can put it on there for another week we'll see if we get any responses and then i'll bring it to you for a decision thank you in the meantime they're still filling the bill for us without it are they completing the tasks that we're signing to them at this point or are we falling a little bit further through the hole they are they're talking with me weekly on the progress of of the critical ones that we have and works with them right now that uh rob had going that he's transferred over to them unfortunately he transferred it over to them so they're they're doing some background work to get up to speed on it to make sure they do the right things for us so i'm okay with their progress to be honest with the transfer right now no not yet okay then i have the question regarding we have one person on staff on the police force he's a military member he's going on uh a week five days five days the question came up we don't have anything in our policy whether we pay them or we don't pay them and then according to the state statute as well it's it's it has to take a leave of absence for that time and it's up to the employer whether we pay them or we don't pay them during that leave of absence time for military service would that be in their contract it is not are they getting paid by the military while they're not they get their military pay yes and i would think that if it's not in their contract that we kind of have to stick to the contract at this point yeah think of what if they weren't getting paid i don't know i think they'll pay me questions big but i mean what i mean we've had similar things come up and recently we're in this non- military non-public service so to speak where we've had people that had to leave or have other things going on and we've made decisions based on that that if it wasn't addressed in our union contract and then we would put a state status quo if it was addressed and we would follow the contract and based on where we're at with negotiations right now i don't know what what are i don't know what the board wishes but i mean i know that's what we've thought in the past right i'm only going to throw this out there that i don't know what his military pay is but i think that personally anybody's supporting this country i would be entitled to subsidize the difference that's just my opinion and you know what i mean that's just me yeah being prior military you know i that's how i feel about it yeah if there's a difference in pay you mean if he's getting less money yeah through the military i would i would feel more intent to subsidize the difference yeah for that service i would feel good about that i would feel like the story thing to do i just want to make sure that we have a reason for anything that we're doing okay so that's not an action item since it's around the table but i'll have to put an action item i have to be an action item diem's going to need an answer because she has to pay him so i have to do payroll on friday and it just came up to me today maybe we can do this one retroactively for that i think because he's we're going to need some information as well to be able to provide that i don't think his expectation is so so so if we relay that that's the board's intent and if he wants to provide documentation we'll be able to make a decision at the next meeting and actually have a have a be an agenda item and take a vote then i feel you will either be an agenda item or it won't be okay almost done i only got two more items so so to our earlier conversations on about the planning um i had a conversation earlier with justin as well um i'd heard that in the past that we had done select board retreats and i just wanted to throw that out there to the board whether it's a day whether it's an afternoon whether it's a couple of evenings because again i'm the i'm the new guy coming in and there's all this stuff going on and it's it's like you said it's hit or miss it's all over the place and we don't have a real strategy where we want the town to go and how we're going to get there and i think you know my suggestion is that we sit down for whatever time period we need to and and figure out what that strategy looks like what does the five years what does the town look like in ten years what does it look like and what are our steps that we need to take to make a priority to get there i mean there's a lot of little things that we can do but there's a lot of big stuff going on that that's you know is it really what we need and is it what we want i mean we got police to talk about we got fire department to talk about we got new town center to talk about is it the right location is it the wrong location is it is it the right size is it the wrong what is it i think it's a commemoration so yeah why why are we doing it what is what is the benefit we're getting out of what's there right now i'm not sure but i'm sure there must be some somewhere somebody smarter than me came up with it so i think it's a good idea because that'll allow us to have more of a casual come open dialogue yeah and i'm gonna just sit in the evening after just start out not on a weekend but if you guys agree to have that then i'll come up with a couple of proposals at times i'll work with you get it in the last town we lived in and it worked out well at least every old you've got everyone kind of aligned on at least short and medium range goals to to think about and know where we're headed and say how does this fit with the longer term strategy exactly exactly one of the things we've talked about is not we can't we have a we have probably more than one sort of retreat or whatever it will take to kind of cover the gap off or whatever it is maybe you can be assistance with construction since we've done that in the past maybe we can streamline it in the ultra-official about it but but i also we also can't take four hours back to back to back to back to back you tell me what the boundary line is there and we'll set it up that way if it's six meetings that are two hours long or whatever i'll figure it out but i'm just you know again i'm looking at it from all these things i think there's a lot of hours involved to be honest unless you really you know streamline i really want to delegate most of it no i think the way i think we need to pick the top five work in my agency and whether we did it as a select board in northfield each each select board member brought goals or things that they'd like to see and where they'd like to see the town head because we then developed you know overarching goals for the town and underneath those strategies and when it came to the tactics we left it to the administrator the town manager to bring us back a plan on you know here are the short-term things and here's why we're doing them that will get us there so i think one of something like that would work i think so just a select board retreat would we invite other entities from our other boards from our town i would i would start with just our board okay it'd be helpful if we had an outside mediator someone just to kind of make sure we stay moving and don't go down the huge role i could play that role i'd facilitate yeah i don't think we need an outside mediator happy to do that you know i've got some thoughts i could probably throw in there to mix it up too so okay i mean you know as far as strategies and you know and such we'll give you a town plan and you know all those things and okay so set up some dates and times and right what do we think about people rarely go to them but they are still public meetings right yeah absolutely just want to make sure i'll warn them and give all that and figure out if we have them with the if we use the grains in the past or whatever yeah i'll work on that last one just an update or a discussion on the on the new town center and the school property status i know that's some conversations and i i spent some time on that one today so you brought it up with the entrance you actually i got some maps and all kinds of great pictures i don't remember if i read it in the paper or if i read it on facebook but i know that there was i know that there were probably both but i don't remember exactly what i read it but i knew the quotes that came from a zoning administrator left me a little concerned about i didn't see the quotes from my zoning administrator well i didn't have a conversation with my zoning administrator the way i recall it was when i asked directly if this would kill the project if the land wasn't needed um you didn't have a great answer right i understand me well sorry so i i spoke with i happened to speak with a school board member today um and we talked about i have to talk about some other things and one of their their number one concern was that there's you know the three three members from the town asked that same question and they all had different reasons why they may may be opposed to transferring this property and they were all relatively valid in my opinion right well let me start off that i made a phone call to tell him today about this okay and because he wanted eagerly for us to put tons and tons of what i felt was pressure on the school supervisory union to give us this property back right this has been a discussion that we've had a couple of times over the years in prior act 46 and we had talked with heidenberg maybe about doing something where they could use this this 7.48 reversal right in exchange for maybe some some some better upgraded facilities for our rec fields or build out new literally fields and things out behind the school where they own because you can see that section that collects the back boundary line right here on the opposite side of the wetlands with there's a lot that they could do for the school right sort of like a public private venture like we've been discussing um and and my number one thought is well how does this benefit the town what like why do we need this property so badly right number one i believe when we started talking about this we didn't this this this concept right here was this this t that was the secondary that was the what if right that was the what if if if we can get that then great we can relocate this road right that we the town already doesn't own but the town doesn't have to maintain um and now for some reason i was getting told that this is this is our this was the original this is what was submitted and this is our absolute plan and i asked and i got the answer but it took a lot is that it it'll still work right we can still do that project the the grant money will still be there to fix and maintain that existing road and the however will never relocate to the grid system that that that the state wants us to see right or wants to see from us i said well because of 190 degree currently because it doesn't slow it down so there's obviously other ways to address it what i see when i look at this is i go what is in it for the town so we're going to start this fight and if we do what is in it for the town well i was told there's potential for a town building there with 80 residential units above it and like well the town's not going to build residential units and rent them right will you be able to sell it or lease it or something and then i see there's another develop another lot that can be developed here as a result of the restructure of this um and so to me this looks really advantageous to them all right or or the developers in this area that would potentially buy this parcel and questions i don't you know when i look at it the way this road is if you get rid of these drawings that he has in here our road frontage if the town were to get that property back we have actually the town has more frontage if if we don't put the tea in see what i'm saying that we actually have more frontage that way that's better for us so what i see is that by doing this tea we've developed this additional building lot for somebody in there or created the space for an additional building lot in there so from from from a perspective where that i think the supervisory union wanted to know was could the number one could the project continue without this them needing this land over because they have concerns for the wetlands the walking paths the outdoor recreation that the children at the school utilize a lot actually for the outdoor learning um the answer is yes that they could but it was i was it took me a lot and i had actually used very bad tone to get that answer because i felt like i couldn't get the answer quite honestly um the the next thing that the supervisory union really what they wanted to know was like what what's in it for the school and not what's in it from a monetary perspective what what the supervisory union was looking at was okay well i almost feel like because of the level of the relationship that's been built there somehow it's evolved to almost a non-trusting relationship because they couldn't get the answers that they wanted um so the the the town of Berlin doesn't own that section of land technically speaking and that's washington county that's Washington county right so what i was questioning was why are we so involved in that's that supervisory union property period right so why does the town need that property from the supervisory union why are we trying to be so forceful with them or this where they need to give it to us i don't know that we are right right i know but that's what we were they were i was i was being right persuaded into trying to be persuaded into being forceful with other of the board members for for the supervisory union it doesn't i can see where there's benefits to the school or if they did the right thing where like maybe some wrecked fields in some of the more community things so Vince made an outreach call which is where we left the conversation years ago and we got some results from i i spoke to the ball my my freshman this afternoon with regards to that to understand you know what what was the history based on what Justin had told me earlier um and apparently when the when the all property was sold to the new owners the existing owners kept the development rights so to speak to that portion of property behind the school the ones that were originally talked about putting ball fields in and that's what killed that portion of it five years ago apparently they still have all the information he said that he would speak to his person at the mall that was involved with it then to see if they'd be interested in reopening those discussions with that company now five years later because obviously there hasn't been anything any interest in that property nothing's really moving for them so um they're they're going to look at having some other discussions to see uh if they can help by having something to offer to the school so essentially this seems this seems like and again i don't know that we need to be directly in the middle of it but i think approach differently this it seems like it could be a very easy transaction here giving a right of way to do this in exchange for a new ball field over here that's the super supervisory union keep the lot to sell in the future if they want if they choose to but that the amount of land that the the mall entrance or the new town center actually needs is very little right it doesn't need to be all well i'm and i'm i haven't been part of the discussion i feel like we've been kept in the dark by our zoning administrator a little bit maybe not in purpose but it just seems like you know if you approach the supervisory district you know nicely and said you could we have a right of way here in exchange let us help you you know build some new fields or do something it seems like a win-win for everyone even on the existing property without yeah doing any property exchange right with and you know if at some point in the future the supervisory wants to sell this lot for a existing building well it's going to benefit the the supervisory union and live you know all of our property taxes that's a great great approach so this this whole conversation prompted another level of concern for me because when we look at this you said we right we don't know if this is we aren't necessarily the ones that are looking for this we aren't the ones right like and i don't mean that in in a way but what i wanted to say was we have a lot of time and a lot of labor and a lot of expense going into this there's been a lot of meetings a lot of a lot of payroll expense associated with this that hasn't come to the board that we have been maybe i mean it was not intentionally left in the dark about um but this this like who who where's our accountability how many hours have been spent on this and why are we going down this rabbit hole without without having this initial conversation because that perspective john that you just gave could potentially have saved hours and hours and hours and hours of labor and frustration and within the community and and and help that so why why are who why are why are we allowing our zoning administrator to just go out into the community and do these things and advocate as if they are on our behalf without us being more involved is did they do that on behalf of the planning commission would they do that on while he was being paid by the planning commission or did he do that while he was being paid by the town of Berlin all started don't play catch up to be honest this all started yeah i guess i'm just there's a lot of work being done uh and the planning commission is you know trying really hard to do you know in their view what's right here i just think that we need tighter communication because you know i don't think we have a good idea what's going on we're reading it in other places on you know land deals that don't directly have anything to do with us meaning it's not our land anymore from a municipality but it definitely affects our you know future projects we have kind of employees you know giving quotes to papers without any of our knowledge you know if they were to call us you know if i hadn't read the article let's say what are you talking about right you know that's not a that's not a good place to be and it's not a place that we should be so this and i didn't talk about this no no go ahead and then i'll speak after this project is one of the last ones that was sort of ongoing the four minutes came on just so you guys know because i asked about that a little bit so i just wanted that to be clarified that catching up with us on this and it was one of the ones that was already going on just sorting through all the same questions we're not placing fault i'm just saying we got a problem and the solution is definitely tighter communication yep yeah right couldn't agree more and what i was going to add is that we bring this to the next board meeting and invite tom to come and present to us more historical background perspective everything we just discussed to get everyone on the same page and to provide that understanding i think that would be beneficial and then brad will also be in attendance most likely and then we can all discuss it as a whole that's my take can i can i make a suggestion that perhaps we bring someone from the planning commission to maybe carla that's her little r to be here for that she's yeah i was thinking she would be so i have no she's got a lot invested in it as well knows it very well looking at this thing on that on that just wanted a quick question do you have any idea what the because i'm looking at the volunteer fire department there what's the what's the what's the agreement that the volunteer fire department has with 99 years is it something so what i got rob halpert to recuse himself from this back in the back when this first happened prior to this so what i wanted to do a quick boundary line adjustment and actually have the school in the parking lot the entrance area be attempt second property and we were told we couldn't do it and then my attorney actually ripped everything from ballast and back and then reached out to rob because he said it wasn't a conflict of interest you know it's very much represented in the supervisor union i said i feel like it is but i'm not saying he's right or wrong i'm just saying i feel like it's definitely a conflict of interest rob recused himself the next day and then i i had a different idea for the transfer because i knew this would come down in the future i might consider just maintaining much control over the property in a local level because and that's what prompted some of the initial conversations with heidenberg um and things like that about the school but but i think that john's idea is probably the best idea i have no background on i'm just looking at saying like i can make it a win win forever yeah i think that's absolutely the most logical doesn't look like that much land and it's sometimes it's hard to tell but to give a right of way still still gives you you know full access to the rest of it and i think the reason that you know one of the questions would be yeah i was figuring out if the right of way satisfies the desire for this because with what we've been told for what what's been brought to the board for the importance of this in the significance of it is not this additional building block that's in here or or this potential of municipal building over there it's just the road structure itself so i think that that would satisfy it yeah that's what they say like that anything else for the long table events i think that's enough for me while reading the minutes of may 17th when we were talking about the speed sign in front of my house the one that still doesn't work the one that still doesn't work did any yeah ideas on no i i need to follow up i because i don't even have a date for our new speed limit signs and again if i told you we're gonna try to do that i thought they'd be in by now you should at least take it down and put it someplace that it won't work yeah exactly so you know in that way another community can the big project across that was done in his back open so we'll all get it in the schedule real quick one thing now that we're on speed limits weston's call came to the board year a couple years ago asking about the reduce the speed on 12 down there it was a survey whatever happened with that is there so the last that i knew they were going to put one of the machines there too to try to decrease the speed they did put one this summer down near the fire yeah somewhere on that stretch of road they did and it was there but it's the state that controls that speed limit that's correct you're gonna have to petition your friends in the state for that one unfortunately it's just i've got more and more kids from the fire heading over to that field and it's starting to really be a concern it's a good point that he brings up could you follow up with Linda Thurston and just make sure that she's in agreement with our understanding and if she has any questions or concerns or anything else she'd like us to address because i remember she was the one that came to the board she should be out of town for another week or so yeah she's rarely responsive so she'll get back to you when she's back on the panel okay motion to adjourn second discussion those in favor say aye