 Welcome everyone to the January 22nd, 2024 meeting of the Town of Rochester Select Board. This meeting has been posted in three public places, right? And on the town website and emailed to interested parties. So we've satisfied the requirements for publicizing this meeting. And we'll start off with the prior meeting minutes. First, we have the minutes from the December 21st meeting. And that, I know you were not here at the last meeting. So you want to look at those and you're happy with them? You have a chance to look at them? Yeah, in this one here. Yeah. I was at the area. Yeah. So I'd move to approve that. Second. All in favor? Aye. Yep. And then we also have, yeah, that was a short one. The minutes from the January 8th meeting. The long one. The long one. I've had a lot of conversation about emergency services and it's, yeah, I, there's a lot in there. But it's very informative. Very informative. So I'd move to approve that. I second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay. You got those. Add it into the record there. And we have, well, let's just go in the order of what we have here. We have the, from James Barlow, our town attorney for the tax sale engagement letter. Basically asking him, this is the agreement for him to negotiate and, and properly warn and conduct the couple tax sales that we have on the horizon. So let's move to, to sign that letter to him. I second that. All in favor? Aye. All right. This is one, 22, 24. Okay. And next we have, I believe we have joining us in zoom, the follow up on the, the conversation on the declaration of inclusion and seen as we, we held on to zoom after COVID ended. This is part of our efforts to celebrate inclusion of those that want to be in our meeting. So I believe Bob and Norman are, are here to, to speak on this. Do you want to make a little presentation guys? Well, good evening and thank you for having us and putting us at the top of the agenda. I'm Norman Cohen and Bob harnesses with me from the declaration of inclusion. We generally follow up some way to see after we present, you know, what questions have arisen either from the select board or from the public and I'm happy to answer them and help when we can. I'm going to turn it over to Bob harness. I think I spoke much more than I should have at the last meeting and Bob is the founder of the declaration and I think we'll answer your questions. And if he needs help, I'm certainly here to chime in and I'm not shy. So Bob. Thank you. Thank you, Norm. And Dune, it's good to see you. Yeah. Usually in the bike shop, of course. Yeah. And I can stand by and we can stand by and answer questions or I can make a short presentation to maybe be a refresher for those who I think doing you miss the last so I could I could do that and as so new for you and as a refresher course maybe to the to the others. So I'll be quite brief. We're talking tonight about town endorsing a simple idea that 132 towns have already adopted in this statewide initiative. 132 towns have heard our presentations at a select board meeting. Those men and women discuss the merits of the idea, the moral aspects and the and the economic imperative and voted to adopt and so over 70% of Vermont's population lives in those towns and we ask you to consider joining them. So we're asking towns to endorse a statement that basically says we reject discrimination. We welcome people to our town. We want residents, you know, even those in what we would call the marginalized groups such as people of color, perhaps or people with disabilities. Anyone who would be in what we think of as a marginalized group. And we want residents to those residents to feel included and safe in our communities and the end and we ask the town to commit to fair and equal treatment of of those folks and employees of course. So there is nothing political here. It's simply a call for respect toward everyone. So who is who is behind this effort? This is citizen driven and self funded. It's just a norm myself and three others. But we've been fortunate to have the backing of some major Vermont organizations, the Vermont League of Cities and Towns. For example, the Vermont State Chamber, which which has created and hosted our website, the Vermont Council on Rural Development, the Office of Racial Equity and the Governor himself. So I'm just going to keep it real short and in closing just just refreshing your mind again, the key phrases of our suggested statement or declaration and they are that the town rejects discrimination and encourages its inhabitants and residents to reject discrimination to welcome people of diverse backgrounds. We want residents to feel that they that they truly belong in our safe in our communities and the town commits to fair and equal treatment of everyone. So that's it in a nutshell and so we would welcome any any questions now or in a follow up meeting. I don't really have any questions personally. Of course I do. Of course you do. Yeah, go ahead Pat. What are the advantages and then what are the disadvantages of us joining in the inclusion? Well, the advantages are that you add to a statewide effort. We want to be able to say to the world at large, Vermont is a welcoming state. Vermont is a state, let's face it, that needs population. We need workers. The 2020 census showed that our population growth is stagnant. We have an aging population still living here. We're losing our young people to better opportunities outside the state. And so this is a statewide effort to try to put out the word town by town that Vermont is a welcoming place. And we want people to think about that to bring their skills here, bring their families here and add to our life in Vermont. I mean, with a stagnant population and yet increasing costs of everything, the state is going to be hard pressed to maintain infrastructure and services. So and towns need to grow their grand list. So we asked you to think about that aspect of it as well as the moral aspect of just treating everybody with kindness. I'd like to add just one thing. There was a recent study, I think by the Vermont Foundation, by the group that is affiliated with the Chamber of Commerce in which they expect 100,000 people to retire in the next 10 years. And if we're not keeping our students and we're not growing the population, we need the effort to replace these people or the state's future is not going to be very bright. And there's Vermont futures that did that study. And I think that's a very salient point. So is this, how long has this been in the works? You said the governor has signed on to it. Did he sign on to it about the same time? He started offering $10,000 to anyone that would move to Vermont? Well, it was about three years ago, Dune, that we first started this effort. It was shortly after that that the governor issued a proclamation endorsing the idea and he has reissued those proclamations each year for the last three years. And in addition to that, he has, with the second proclamation, he has named the second weekend May as Inclusion Week for, and in the last few years, a number of towns have created festivities around that concept during that second week of May. It had no, our effort had no connection with his, with the program, with the program of offering $10,000 for people to come here. If it was a connection, it was coincidental. Yeah, just curious because it seemed like they're both, both nudging at the same, same topic there about encouraging people to perhaps want to move to Vermont. So there was, the advantages are, are there. And then I guess when Pat was asking if there are any disadvantages, I guess the, the caution about getting entwined in something that will create more paperwork for us included with just routine day-to-day business as we, as we move on and through the years. There really should be no paperwork done. I would, the only thing we would suggest, I mean, I mean, we do suggest some, some effort at implementation. And, and one of those points is that you can just look over town documents to be sure that there's no implicit bias in, in, in the wording of those documents. Which really there should not be any, because legally already, I think we're, I'm pretty obligated to not discriminate. So it's, it's, you know, the chances are you won't find that if you. Yeah, yeah. In some cases that, you know, those ordinances were drafted many, many years ago and there may be some, by it, they, they may refer to he, when they mean people in general, you know, and so there's that kind of bias. But there, so, I mean, there should be no expense to the town unless a town decides to hire someone to come in and, and, and review their documents. But if, if the town did elect to, to, to do something that costs some money, there are grants available from the Vermont Community Foundation of up to $10,000. Do you do any lobbying? Does your organization do any lobbying? No. This is a completely volunteer organization, as Bob said, but we don't even have a bank account. This is just now five people who really believe that this is a step forward for Vermont and a step forward for the towns when it's necessary. So there's no lobbying, no expenses. It's just, just us. What you see is what you get. So the last time that we spoke, we declared that we were satisfied being under the umbrella of Vermont taking the, the declaration of inclusion. And, and that would be sufficient as Vermonters. So I'm not quite sure what there is to gain since our governor has already declared what, what, what it would be for, what advantage it would be for us as a town since I guess we're already part of your organization being Vermonters. Well, in a sense, in a sense you are. But in a greater sense, there's, there's value. First of all, there's value in numbers and being able to say, look, every town for 150 or 175 towns have, have endorsed this idea. But, and I lost my, I'm blanking out on my second point here, but Norm, go ahead. Well, we've heard that question a number of times. And I think it's a fair question to ask. But I think the advantage is the governor speaks at the state level and the government's policies and his programs and the internal stuff is a statewide state agencies, et cetera. His proclamation, while it speaks for the state as a whole, it doesn't speak for individual towns that say, and we think there's a tremendous value for the town to make it known publicly that they're an inclusive and welcoming community. And by doing that, putting the declaration they adopt in their town report on the website, posted in various offices and people know it then. A lot of towns, not a lot, but a few towns have said, we're welcoming. We don't need this. And our answer has been, we're not suggesting that you're not welcoming. In fact, quite the opposite. We're suggesting that it's economically and morally helpful to adopt it and publicize that and make that public so that when people look at your website if they're coming here for a weekend or coming here for a summer or looking to buy a place or move, they know what you are from day one. Of course, it's a public statement. Is this the only state that is taking on this declaration of inclusion? That's an excellent question. And as far as we know, yes. We do know that one town in Maine adopted it because that's how we got got to it. The town of Franklin, way up in the Northwest part of the state, was the first town to adopt it. And turns out that the chair of the select board was Bob Horace's cousin and sent it down to him as a point of interest. And Bob embraced it immediately and took it to the town of Pittsburgh which adopted it. And Brandon then, correct me if I'm wrong, Bob, picked it up on its own. And then Bob began to think that this had some statewide potential and he got after Al Wakefield and drew him in and then Al mentioned it to me and I offered to help and it's just grown from there. So it, we know it came from the town of Maine, but we don't know how many other states, how many other towns out of Vermont have it. But we do have 132. And it's actually 73.6% of the population of Vermont lives in those towns. Yeah, yep. So you've mentioned before that in many cases is just the select board itself decided to adopt this declaration. And it seemed to me that if you're really going to make the declaration that that would be something to bring up at a town meeting. So it's actually a declaration of a larger group than just the three of us. So I don't know how many times that's come up at town meetings or if it's, if people just do it at the select board. But that's my thought that that's something this is not immediately impacting the town economically. It's just a statement of philosophy. And I would think that some would be a conversation to bring up at the town meeting to spice things up a little bit. Sure. I agree with that. I think your point is very well taken. It turns out that only so far only, I think you can probably correct me but only four or five towns have have taken it to town meeting. And all of those town meetings endorsed it overwhelmingly. I do know that I think eight towns are putting it on the ballot for this town meeting and and you know you can't you can't anything that generates discussion around this concept I think is healthy and and and town meeting is a perfectly good discussion site. So I'd be inclined to just add that to our gender for the town meeting to present it to the public at large to have that conversation and take their view on it. Would you as a select board want to want to I don't know what endorse the idea or but but yeah we could we can we can present it. We know we don't need you to come to you know all eight of these select board meetings to I mean we've got the the gist of it. It's not a complicated that to have an article right and the Vermont the Vermont League of Cities and the Vermont League of Cities and Towns is prepared to help towns with with the wording of the ballot item. We still haven't we still haven't done the warning yet for the meeting have we. No no so we could we could slide another another line on there. We've got pages of them. No. Close. Do we still have page we're okay. Well I would I would suggest that that's that's our next step I would say so it's better for the town to decide rather than the three of us one of the whole point of it is to talk about inclusion we should talk about it versus 10 people here and whoever's on zoom. Yeah right. All right. Well we'll we'll do that. Wonderful. Thank you very much for hearing us again and good to see you Dune. Yeah yeah I don't see you but I you're talking at me to the owl here so I can hear you. I remember what you look like no problem. Thank you very much. Thank you gentlemen. Yeah. All right. Okay. Next on the. This one does apply economically to the town this is an adjustment of the town of Rochester permit fee schedule which after I don't know how many years of not raising it we decided to move up the costs of some things not not drastically but this is one over in the budget and finance committee meeting and it's still not exorbitant but I've moved to approve the new new fees. I second that. Yeah. All in favor. All right. Okay. Can you read out what it is? What the fee increase. This doesn't have the old ones I can now like I know like the building permits went from twenty five dollars to fifty dollars. You know it's a certified copies for birth and death certificates is ten dollars copies of black and white copies now twenty five cents up from what. That's just just what it was I just wanted to add it to the schedule. Add it to the schedule so I mean there's. The driveway permit for a new cut on to town road is a hundred dollars the hook up to municipal sewer and water like a new new hook up cutting into the town pipes is seven hundred fifty dollars. For a commercial would be fifteen hundred dollars. A permit for open trench and road boring in the town right away would be fifty dollars and the permit for subdivision major or minors fifty dollars so basically covering things like that. And when do they take effect July. July 1st. Yeah this would be the next. Yeah. The next budget schedule. All right. And the. The big one is just spent many hours of working on is approving the fiscal year twenty five budget. I skipped the mileage certificate okay we'll get that back to that. So the total highway and general fund will equal one million. Thirteen thousand three hundred and eighty four dollars of which one million. No wait a minute that couldn't. Be right because we'd be raising more taxes than the general fund. Does it includes the articles. Including the articles okay so plus all the additional articles so that amount to be raised by taxes is one million one hundred twenty one thousand four hundred and thirty four dollars. So that is a seven point nine nine percent tax rate increase over what it was there before. Nancy can you clarify that or did I say something wrong. I. Or did you just say that it includes the articles. No no we said that is the general fund is a million thirteen and then that's not including. It doesn't. Right include any article. Right. Second number. Like no appropriation right. Second number it does. The second number does. Yeah. But the first number. The first number is just your. Highway and your. General fund but I don't think. Raise taxes on things that haven't even been voted yet. No we don't the top number the first number is the highway and the general expenses and though that's the number that we're voting on right underneath it gives the full budget including appropriations and articles but that's not to be raised by. But I don't think that figure of a million three. We don't have a million three. A million thirteen. We got a million and thirteen thousand. And it's because of. That's before appropriations. I think it's these two numbers maybe. Okay as long as it's before. In an article yes that we. Yeah because right because those are voted on individually at the at the end. So when people go to vote they have to realize those other two figures are going to increase. Yes right. Like and that's how that's always been yeah right yeah. That's how it's in the. Previous town reports yeah. What it all shakes down to really those the real number that we were all struggling to keep down is that seven point nine nine percent tax rate increase. Yeah. Which is much less than a projected school rate increase. So I'd move to approve this and then to present it to the voters at the town meeting. I second that. All in favor. And thanks for everyone that joined in with the budget and finance committee meeting for the hard work to. Put these numbers together. We also have here the amount trans mileage certificate for twenty twenty four. Yeah and that should be good. Yeah and that is basically affirming with the state the percentage of which class of roadways that we have and that's how they determined the money that we get from the state. So and I move to to sign this and send it off to the state. I second that favor. Hi okay. That's good. And another important one is the local emergency management plan of the commitment letter. This is the hazard mitigation assistance sub app sub application local match commitment letter. And this is it's a state the state the state has applied for all towns that are all for all of us and then those who want to take part in it. We have to commit to our town share. And where that money is coming from. Yeah which is our commitment would be three thousand two hundred eighty seven dollars and fifty cents which is twenty five percent of the thirty thousand. Yeah the grant and this is this needs to be renewed every five years. So our deadline is March thirty first twenty twenty five and from what I understand it can take up to two years but ours is just needing to be updated. So it's going to take a steering committee that involves the select board somebody from the planning. Somebody from like the fire fire and rescue and our emergency manager management to put this all together. And then once we submit this we then can go out to bid and like our regional out of which he can be part of like that group that would that would submit a bid and would go through a bid process and then it takes that whole committee plus the contractor to put this together and have it approved. So it's a lot simpler than the declaration of inclusion. And the reason why it's so important is because having this in place and approved allows the town to receive the immigrants right or any federal. So so we're not so much approving this is starting the process starting the process and committing something that's required. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So. So moved. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do we need to vote? I don't think so. I don't think so. I think we just need to start. You just sign it. You just sign it. And then who is whose shoulders is it on to create the steering committee? Like I kind of I looked at Jones folder and it basically would be like the emergency manager would be part of that because it's there really they're part of it. But like we're all ready to help in any way. Yeah. So basically almost. Yeah. Okay. So we don't just file out this at the bottom somewhere. Nope. We got to stay on top of it. Yeah. Okay. All right. The December Treasurer's report and that's keep spending money and next batch of taxes is due in what three weeks? Yeah. Three weeks. So I've moved to approve this report. I second. All in favor? All right. All right. And then we come to the next interesting thing on the agenda is continued discussion about the high school and I think Catherine and Vic that's what you guys are here for. And you too Rob probably everybody. We heard from Sarah Wright. Yeah. We haven't gotten the actual report yet but the good news is that the end of the phase two is completed and there were there was nothing found that raised the standard to any kind of regulatory actions. So basically high school looks good. So does the phase two is that do that include a PCB inspection? Yep. Yeah. That was the environmental study. That was the environmental study? Well that's good. Because that was a big question for a while there. Excluding the underground oil tank. Right. They still have to come to the tank. Yes. That has not been removed. Yeah. Because the cost of installation of the interim above ground was going to be a hundred and seventy five thousand dollars. So Jamie Canary asked if we could just keep the underground tank in place and we had the discussion with Sarah and she said that the certificate of completion would just have the exclusion of the underground tank and that at some point when that is removed Jamie committed to paying for the cost of removal and any kind of mitigation cleanup should leakage be found. That of course if the vote goes yes that would be included in the Purchasing Agreement. It has to be. In fact you know I've got to thinking because whoever is the owner is responsible even though he's committed to it. So the transfer of liability as far as the state's concern goes on the town. And superintendents can come and go. So I thought maybe it would be a good idea for you to meet with Jamie and just get that writing so that that commitment that was made through him can be honored at such time. Should the town acquire the building. I spoke with him today but if you're going to have something like that in writing. I just think it's a good idea because it's been discussed and rediscussed but you know. So that was the major question around proceeding for the vote was whether the buildings and grounds were in acceptable condition from an environmental standpoint. So the flood way has been cleared with the change of the property designation. The flood plain has been cleared with the addition of flood doors which have been installed at the school's expense. The interior the assessment of the interior for contamination has been resolved and now exterior has been resolved. So all the environmental stuff except with the exception of the fuel tank which is just talking about says that this building which was a liability from an environmental standpoint at least an unknown is now a developable asset. Still can't be developed for housing personally but is available to be developed for other purposes as we've been talking about. So that's a big deal to have you know gone through all that and reporting it but you should also get the full report if you haven't gotten it already. So this brings them to the issue of just getting closer for time for the vote for the time to vote on whether or not to purchase the building. You guys are the ones who are deciding on the date of the vote. Have you scheduled or planned or done work on informational meeting? Just begin to do that. We've got a draft slide deck. Well you saw what earlier version of it and some folks who are very interested in seeing this happen want to have a informational program campaign pulling together information to address what this project is about and we're providing facts and information and they're the front people for telling the story. So as you know I was at a concern that there's a difference between information and promotion and I know we've had this conversation a hundred times so I hope that in the planning of the information package the presentation that there's a way to make the bad news in there with the good news. With respect the last town meeting report you guys had four pages of information and one sentence about how you're going to be paid for. So just in an informational sense I felt that the position of those are worried about money and to me it's always been a money issue. Didn't get a full upfront feeling of you know what's the good news and what's the bad news and I think it's extremely important. The job, the responsibility for my part of your life is informing people of the whole story not convincing them would be really great. The convincing them that it really great is like a different job. So you know I love you both and I've said this before guys when you go to put these information packages together please put the money upfront. You were at that November 2nd to a slide presentation in the library correct? So did you think that we had that kind of information in the slide deck? It was certainly there but it didn't have the kind of foreground weight that I feel it should have. Now bear in mind this is just my opinion but I think it's so big. $3 million, $100,000 a year forever. I mean it's a very, very big financial commitment even discussion and I just feel that that really needs to be upfront the weight of it, what it means and the questions it raises and all this kind of stuff and that tends to be set aside for just a kind of an upbeat promotional tone. Not really in my opinion because I mean the whole Sanders earmark is for the upgrade of the building so whenever we've talked about that I mean we've all listed everything that's included in the upgrade and the feasibility study is the same figure that we're using because that's the figure that we have and that included the 35% inflationary on top of you know what base costs is worth so I mean I think the thing that is can't be certain is you know who the tenants are absolutely going to be at this point. I mean we have a lot of interested people but we still have to get commitments tenant commitments and we're passing out the information of what the what the space would be rented at and so I mean those are just figures and they're in there let's just say the UNI have a different view of the tone and I respect you and God love you but I would say the UNI have a different view of the tone I'm talking about and I'm just talking about hard facts the difference in hard facts and a kind of and I understand you love it and I understand you've given all this time to it and that you're a true believer and everything else but in the responsibility to the public is to let everybody know what what the cost risk is in addition to what the benefit absolutely and I'm only one vote you know I mean me too like board has decided that it's going to be a town vote and it's going to be a town vote so but I'm really just talking about the information job that's all I don't need to beat it to death I'm just I said this before and I'll just say it again you know with with fondness and respect to both of you I have a question the last time we had a discussion there was still the up-and-your-issue about the the Bernie Sanders money the quote-unquote Bernie Sanders money and that there was there was no expectation of a decision anytime soon or we just didn't know we with the project passed through center appropriations so this is the last year but if you're if you're keeping track of what's going on in DC I mean they're just going month to month just to fund the government so no money is guaranteed till Congress passes the bill are you prepared to go to a town vote without the knowledge of whether or not that money is available well the slipboard has said all along that once you get the results of the environmental study that you'll take it to a vote obviously we may not know for a long time about the airmark we are looking into other funding sources as we speak and where we're preparing ourselves for implementation grant and we were told by Nathan Cleveland at a ccd that we were one of the strongest projects in the state and we recently learned from Kirk White that we're number nine on the Green Mountain Economic Development Corps top 10 projects so people are looking at us and they're saying we look good and you know we we want the Sanders money so we can't rely on only the Sanders money and then once they pass the bill will it be 2.3 million so you're comfortable going to a vote without any solid money going forward let me just let me just express my position okay we spent working for the last three years on behalf of the school board and and the select board to explore potentials for the bill for the building we've gone through the feasibility study we've gone through the regulatory process and I can't magically make money appear we don't own the building and we learned in April because we don't own the building we were really not eligible for a lot of significant funding so as long as we don't own the building we're in this middle ground you know and we had we suck at some point we have to have a vote and that is not my job to determine when that's the three of you to just decide that so there's people who are who express opinions similar to Rob with caution and concern about taking on such a project in ten terms of town ownership the budget and finance committee say that in that interim period that we expect the town to own the building during the upgrade that the tax rate would be forty dollars per hundred thousand that's not a whole lot of money for a taxpayer that's what you were at that meeting sixty well you were you're quoting forty at the meeting the other night sixty less what's already been paid oh from the school right because that we so we we're already paying a portion of that in our school taxes that's what you mean right but then we wouldn't be paying the school taxes because it would just transfer over to the town so it's sixty per hundred thousand or it's forty sixty minus twenty is forty yes just explain it explain it how why you're saying that I'd be impressed to see our town the school taxes go down when we hit when that building is sold but I mean theoretically they would but I think that's not a big part of the school budget it's not that's the whole point yeah the high school is not a big budget we had a conversation with Jamie last week estimated that the operating cost of the building is about sixty thousand dollars of which twenty or so is paid by Rochester twenty by Stockbridge and round numbers I guess grants another school funding that I understand so if the building is not on the school's responsibility more than theory that tax burden on Rochester people goes down by that twenty dollars so that's what oh that's why he's okay so the net is that impact is 40 yeah let me let me say it's kind of an example that I was talking about what Kirk quite actually said was that the project was at the bottom of the list number 18 and that he went lobbied and and you know talked the project up to work did his job and it came up but there was concerns there were concerns about the project and those concerns were that there wasn't any business buy-in well I'm saying is that the whole story of the Kirk white but I'm just saying it the whole story I'm just saying the whole story of the Kirk white it's a little bit like like saying that the or acting like the Bernie Sanders is in the bag when it's not now is Kirk Wright he didn't talk to me but but I have talked with Erica Hoffman Keiss and she asked us to submit regional projects form which we did for to be included in that top 10 projects and from what I understand from Sarah and also from what was in the paper that the argument that that Kirk presented to the board was that there they've got to focus more on rule development instead of just be exclusively in urban and the problem with our project is there wasn't any significant business buy-in well I understood it and we don't need to make take every time you were there but I understood that as as the kind of level of professional involvement this may be business involvement as a way to say this but all I'm saying I'm just talking about information is if you got to talk about the Kirk white thing as a plus you got to tell the whole Kirk white story I wasn't there that's all I wasn't there but it's I'm making I'm just making a point about information I'm not a condemning you did you say we were no did he say we were number nine he said you were at the bottom of the list and went to number nine so we're number nine except number eight is the point you don't you don't get into the thing until number eight you don't start getting money telling break so you were you were basically you went from not getting I didn't know that that's information right there but I'm not your points well thinking so you guys done an awful lot of work on on behalf of the town as a committee to keep this moving and really appreciate that and you're probably anxious to have this come to vote so we can see what we're at the stage now we're developing the 501c3 the valley hub incorporated so we're developing the board of directors we're ready to file for the 501c3 I mean things are moving along but and it's been a lot of work and a lot of energy at some point there's got to be a decision so in answer to Pat's question how do I personally feel at this point I feel as though it would be good for us to really know it would be good for the select board you know I know that you all have your particular frame of mind towards the project but it would be good to have the select board more involved with the process at this point because of the if the vote is yes you you can't be a surprise to you there's got to be whatever the next step is you know so the 501c3 is not formed yet it is the nonprofit is formed it's a valley hub Inc. is an episode no more is a Vermont not the profit we're in the process of building a board we are working with an attorney and then we'll talk to the 501c3 tax exam okay but the state is aware of the valley hub correct I'm the Incorporated well that's good so we can discuss it when we get we can go into executive session discuss discuss it further or we can discuss it openly I don't know what discussion in the session there's nothing then we just have to come out of executive session and share what we talked about anyways the one question I had is since we've just finished the budget which we just kind of really scrubbed down to get a under a 10% increase in the tax rate this year then to turn around and if so with the vote to buy it at what point do we take possession because that would throw our budget to the wind if that means that we're assuming the responsibility for that building in this night in this fiscal year can we make a commitment to buy it and then have that figured into the next budget or as I know what that's I guess my question is what it would be the timeframe for when that would be one we'd make a vote whether the town agrees yes or no we should buy it but then to when when would that happen that would really you're asking me no I'm just throwing out there is no money in the budget that we are going to adopt or we're going to try to adopt in March that has any money towards the school and that's what we're saying yeah so if we if the town votes to purchase the building in March or May I mean April or whenever the school voters because we have to do it through Australian ballot then we're going to be looking at another year before we even address the the money issue because we're not putting money into it this year on our budget because we just we're at a 8% increase now and we whittled that down from well a lot it was a lot and we worked it down to get where we are we scrubbed the heck out of it and so there's no money in this budget that we're going to adopt in March which is for 25 24 25 that will support the school so our concept of the vote is it's a two-part question one part is to acquire or not acquire the building and the other part is a special temporary tax rate to support the bill if you're voting yes for the building you're voting to impose a property tax to support the building which is going to need if it's $60,000 a year right and you know for some people that's going to be a non-starter and for other people it's okay so that's you know the nature of a vote so it's not intended to be to open the current budget back up but to add an additional one on top and if people are feeling too stretched this is too much but the building is going to need to be supported with money wouldn't be coming from the school anymore soon the closing would occur in the next fiscal year starting July 124 and let me just say in terms of this project we don't ever want this to be a viking Catherine project we put this to be a town project so either the town buys into it or the town doesn't buy into it but at this point we've come to a kind of defining moment in terms of what is the will of the town yeah well I thought it was more the town being the facilitator for the valley hubs project no the valley hub is only a manager at this point we can't even I mean a brand new 501c3 is not going to be able to take on that whole liability of that building we the it's to manage the building and the tenants and all that other stuff but the town's got to take the ownership of the building at least for the first few years I mean the town to be a much stronger yeah yeah the nonprofit with no track record you even have to establish yourself as the 501c3 for a while and before you're even eligible for the big big bucks so it really comes down to that it's got to be town town decided that's something we'll have to figure out after well go from there yeah like hiring a grand administrator like no that's like no I know I know I know I know I don't blame you on that we you've got enough to deal with it yeah you're ministering now seven or eight grants yeah that's the problem and take on another one like that like we're going to have highway ones coming up I mean we know that we're going to have to deal with another bridge coming up in four trucks yeah in the next three or four years it's going to be a lot I think that it's possible to negotiate with the school if you vote if the town votes to acquire there can be you know in the process of negotiation when the actual full transfer goes on when the purchase and sale I mean this whole thing is taking steps and we have been working very much in partnership with our son and as Vic just said they paid for the whole floodplain mitigation yeah and we're hoping that the school will continue to use the building once certain decisions are made and we just got a $10,000 extension of our planning grant to do architectural work so you know and we got waved for the historical part of NEPA back to Patty's question to Katherine about would we want to go ahead with the vote on April 30th not knowing or even getting a negative response on the Sanders grant that's a risk that's a real risk and I'm not sure everybody is in agreement working with the whole projects a big risk and it really isn't and the town is going to be tough to hold that because we're grand list of stagnant we don't have developable properties so you aren't going to increase your taxpayers you're only going to increase the amount of money you get to raise by taxes so it's going to be a tough call and I said it from the start I don't see how we can afford to do it but you know it's got to go through the vote and I certainly feel that that's the proper way whatever the town decides to do is what they should decide to do and I think presenting the facts like Rob says you have to present all the facts and you can't just I'm not saying you are Katherine I'm just saying you got to present this as a as what it's going to do to your pocketbook because if you don't you're just being foolish and that's the way I look at it and I've said that from the beginning and I'll keep saying it because I don't see any way out of it I really don't well but that's my opinion so that's all and I have one vote to yeah so that's it you just look into the facts the facts have been continually put out there and we'll continue to do that I mean we're trying to figure out how to make them accessible so that people don't have too much to read before they can really access the information trying to you know edit it down to their core points I mean the facts are both ways there's the facts of what the risks in terms of costs are but there's also the facts about the risk for actually not owning the building and there's the other side of it there's risks on both sides I'm listening to you there there's risks on both sides no it is nothing's cheap on that it's not going to be easy either way no question about so this is going to be a separate vote separate than the school boat 30th is the date that has been chosen for the vote after town meeting before school budget meeting the school budget will be out by then so everybody will have their school books by that time the actual vote always on it because it's Australian ballot so this will be Australian ballot also yeah so that'll be on the day of the school vote no we're not going to do it that way we're going to have a whole separate yeah just Rochester only all right sounds like the plan when this school vote the following week following Tuesday 30th is it 30th is a Tuesday and then we go to vote on May 6th for the school the school yeah or sorry May 7th would be a Tuesday Superintendents may 7th would be a Tuesday asking for a vote and willing to take ownership of the building if the vote is no he is he is prepared to deal with it one way or another so he's not he's not looking for a vote to purposely try to make the building leave his budget he just wants to know if it's in his budget or not in his budget he's asking for a vote to determine so Jamie is a junior requirement yes so that it's not just hanging in limbo in and out of his yeah we get he's looking for closure so and he's very much aware that he could retain the ownership of the building what does that give him enough time if it's a week ahead of their vote to to the final one I think they're keeping it in their budget I would say they probably have it in their budget so when would the informational meetings be prior to that April prior to April yeah 30 February March April I would think as well as an informational meeting there should be something mailed out to all the tax payers to we did a big mail in October and we'll do it again we're updating the the fact card because we have things that are known to us now so and we put we sent that to every single Rochester resident whether they were a voter or not so I think that'd be some heavy discussion that's how new so the vote happens after coming so yeah town meeting would be an appropriate time to present that this vote is coming up and you know I thought it was the select board's wish not to have a large discussion about the school of town meeting because we were just saying it's going to come up yeah we're not really sure about it I mean it's the biggest issue coming down the pipe I mean it'd be hard not to talk about it we could give it give it a date for an information right before in Australia right I think there's like two information we're going to have a separate information just so that it can everybody can really get the facts and it not have to be squeezed in between other issues so because as Frank says there's going to be a lot of discussion we want the discussion we want the question so targeting the date of April 30th are you all online with doing a vote scheduling a vote warning the vote okay I know that you've been in contact does the town attorney need to actually write the text of whatever is being voted in the morning well not in the warning but the actual text of what people are going to read which is the warning yep yeah yeah yeah we usually have Jim Barlow agreed you know scratch it up and do I understand you say that there's there's you said there are two issues one is do you want to acquire the building second do you want your taxes to the storm the bird so is that one vote or is that two votes well I have it seems to me the summit it's two questions but it seems to me that if you're going to acquire the vote the building that you also have so that's one question yeah I think in mind of that I would think to me it's one question for this time around and then you work with Jamie because they've got the school in their budget for another year then it's another year before the funding aspect comes into it anyway so you've got if they say yes to the building then you've got the following budget year to put it in there and you'd have a better idea what your costs are going to be anyway you what's that you yeah you're the you yeah I know I know who you and then so you have a better understanding of what your costs are going to be at that point so so the the money's not going to be an issue this coming budget cycle it will be the following right talked about though because yes yes we want people to know front what's the cost burden whether it's this year or next year right you know they signed off on the building happy happy $1 right $1 right exactly and the building is functional the building can be used you know it tends you can start doing things with you can start earning some money with it you know it's right now it's just been sitting there not earning any money at all not even being functional except for the auditorium so the warning me if you follow that and if Jamie should be able to keep in that money in the budget if it's not in the budget next year then I think the warning would have to say to acquire the building and be responsible for the operating expense estimated $16,000 or whatever it is so people know upfront you know this is coming maybe not immediately but down the road yeah and I and I think working with Jamie is a good idea all right not too early to start on the morning April 30th okay right we have to check for the timeline on that if it's got to be worn within 30 days or what is what is it 30 yeah and the informational it's a town meeting right and the informational meetings should be prior to two weeks prior just like with your town meeting right that's what I was getting the numbers you have to be all those other meeting the paper postings yeah right yes exactly okay