 This is going to wind up pissing some people off, but I wanted to talk a little bit about Some of my issues with some open source developers and some of my issues with just sort of open source development now in the recent video I did you can It explains pretty not not into an insane amount of detail, but I definitely explained that I do like open source Maybe not for the reasons why some other people do, but I do like it In fact, I do most of my development as open source under very liberal licensing. I Am not anti-source by any means. This is Anti-open source by any means This is rather Just a rant, I guess about the way some people act about open source Especially a lot of the devs now I Yes, just the the kind of other stuff that I do Really taught me that you have to see something through the completion and that complete means Completely ready to go the customer doesn't need to do shit so that is From making up say clothes or furniture. There's nothing they need to do It doesn't even need to be packaged by them. Even the packaging is already done. I Cannot say this about a lot of open source products. Well, I'll say hey, it's uh, you know, we made the release but They don't have it packaged or anything like that You know, they can even have several releases, but There's no chocolatey packages. No Windows MSI is no Packaging for any of the Unix or Linux systems They just like it's good Or it's packaged only for a very specific technology that only a subset of people can use Without necessarily having a hard dependency on that By this I mean like sort of the recent trend of packaging for Docker and then saying hey, it's good Well, what if I don't use Docker? What if I can't use Docker? You know my personal machine I can absolutely install Docker, but What about for those of us who are say working for businesses where you have a manager that decides these things and Sometimes you've already invested in another technology and can't switch Sometimes your manager doesn't understand why you want to switch Sometimes regardless of what you think your manager doesn't agree with the reasons for switching whether the manager is right or wrong is not really what I want to discuss here, but just sometimes these things are completely outside of your control and If it's only packaged for one specific technology you're fucked You can't use it Which that means that dev Their product isn't getting used by as many people as it could be and that's just half-assing it in my opinion when I Say something is released it's completely good to go on Way more than just one platform Technically speaking the added tool project is actually good to go on Linux I'm having to test that it exhaustively yet Well, it does build and package libraries. I Would need to write a quick installer and it's not actually hard to do but It's uh, it's basically good to go I could say hey, it's released But it's not packaged up for common distros yet See what it should have in my opinion so that people can actually use it is the Debian package format, you know dot ddb or dp dpkg or whatever there the hell that extension is but the you know that Debian package format as well as the rpm and I believe these are slightly incompatible, but the Seuss and Red Hat, I think they use slightly incompatible RPMs or something It's been a while since I've used either of those systems. I think they're too crafty In a similar vein Ubuntu's devs are actually different than Debian's and Obviously with Ubuntu and Mint being easily Some of the more popular Linux distros you'd want a package for those and also Arch Linux Since that's sort of my baby when it comes to Linux systems That's the one I regularly use and principally developed for Because I'm not actually anti-Linux guys. I Just don't think it's perfect But you know with that in mind I Do also develop for Windows. I mean hell I develop on Windows. I probably use Windows more than anything else. I like Windows and I'm gonna go with chocolatey packages for that one because Chocolatey's basically integrated into Windows now. I mean not not exactly It's that one get is integrated into Windows now and that you can install the chocolatey provider from one get and It's all pretty pretty simple thing to do once you have chocolatey installed your good and can install anything from chocolatey using one get This all Dinos to some of you probably sounds like an insane amount of work It's like a day you can get all these package. That's it. It's really not that bad and Once you've got all the packages done Anytime you do an update It's like five minutes to go through and change the version numbers and any other little thing and that's it hell There's even tools for helping you do this helping you manage a large number of packages all at once So I'd rather use something like that the actual like system installers system package managers then Have them use something else like flat pack which requires them to install yet another package manager on their system and that's It's ugly to me. That's like I have Unnecessary cruft again In a similar vein Using Docker or similar things as just another package manager is Just an insane amount of cruft now if you have an actual reason to use the container Some kind of isolation that actually needs to happen then that's a good thing to To use you know containers do have their purposes, but I see them used a lot is just like a hey I can package this for everything It's not quite packaging and I get what you think you're doing but You sort of wrapping up a whole little Linux environment in that there's a lot more going on than just packaging your tool and Containers only work on certain things too You want to hit up older Windows systems because you know businesses haven't all migrated to newer versions of Windows then they all lose out and That's potential money if you're actually dealing with a commercial product Should they all migrate to the newer versions of Windows? probably but easier said than done and I think at this point we're basically beating a dead horse when it comes to the the packaging stuff There's a bit more than that too in that They don't really document a lot of open-source projects don't really document anything and If you're just doing tooling For other people to use then it's not super important to actually document I still suggest to do but it's not as important Whereas if you're doing say libraries like I often do You really need to document like really need to document your code It's very hard to use other people's libraries when things aren't documented and Starting to get the skaters Though yet another thing that drives me baddie about open-source devs is when You file a bug report on certain projects They'll tell you to go fix it Let's put that into some perspective. I buy Say a drill press from I don't know the company doesn't really matter But I go buy a drill press It Fails after a month Way quicker than any drill press should ever fail. So I take it back to them Be like hey, uh, I Think this might be a defective unit. I'm Motor has gotten really weak Stuff like that And they go So fix it Then let us know how you fixed it in what world is that okay? customer service Before anybody thinks that oh, well, I'm I'm just gonna do that myself. I actually have here on GitHub a Example of when somebody has filed a bug report something that would be very easy for them to fix and I fix it because Accountability it's my product Somebody else wants to fix something for me or add a feature for me Then much appreciated seriously, that's part of the reason why I open source these but it's my work You know have some fucking pride in your work and actually fix the thing but another very closely related thing is When they want detailed steps for reproducing the error And we'll use that same analogy again. I Buy a drill press from another company it fails within a month and I take it back to them explain that you know a this The motor seems really weak and it's not drilling like it should be Think this might be defective and they go Well, we need to know exactly what you were doing for when it got weak Seriously Never heard anything like that asked anywhere outside of software Now I will say that as many details as possible help find the issue But I'm not talking about that I am talking about people and this even applies to some businesses that develop software where they Absolutely will not even attempt to solve the problem Unless you can give them a detailed report that pretty much pins down exactly what to fix for them now Before anybody can say Similar shit to me on this one. I actually have a Whole Framework I've developed for chatbots for Now something pretty similar to twitch Not for twitch, but that that idea. I figure that's what people are probably gonna know and yeah for for writing chatbots basically and Obviously these finished bots they're going to have problems any new one the Person that's written for is going to have certain customizations that are going to clash and You know you're always going to need fixes But it's not like I'm sitting there for every single show and you can see the problems It's not like These people are very technically inclined because otherwise they'd be writing it That's something I think people need to keep in mind People using your products are often not technically inclined enough to generate the bug reports at the depth you guys want and I'm often just told about problems like hey this thing didn't work or Hey, this thing was slow You think people would use my shit if all I told them was a Hey, I need to know exactly what was wrong in the exact steps necessary to reproduce it Or I'm not fixing this for you No, that makes you sound both pretentious and lazy at the same fucking time Again have some fucking pride in your work. I've had this kind of shit happen with Timing issues or things just completely breaking Giving wrong results all sorts of things And like I had mentioned I really only tend to find out about it by like well, hey, this thing didn't work or This thing wasn't showing up or you know, I tried to do this thing, but it didn't seem to do anything I find the bugs every time every fucking time no detailed bug report just Tinkering around with trying to reproduce it Sometimes you have to ask him a few questions, but that really just helps you narrow it down You know, if somebody tells you hey this thing is slow. Well, is It slow by a consistent amount is it getting slower as the show goes on is it Randomly slow, you know, sometimes just takes a third of a second sometimes takes five seconds How slow are we talking about you know all sorts of things You know, what was going on with your show what you have an insane amount of viewers talking or whatever You know those questions help a bit, but they're very far from detailed bug reports but I always get the bug fixed and It I find it absolutely appalling the large number of open source devs and the It's a smaller number of commercial devs. Holy shit get out of here That act this way that if you are not willing to give them full information about what The actual problem is, you know, basically detailing Exactly how to fix it for them They won't even bother Some fucking pride in your work people