 Hey, I'm really pleased to be joined by Gabriella, who did our summer analyst training program back in 2021, is a student at Newcastle University and has secured a summer internship position at JP Morgan. But Gabriella first, how, how's it going? What have you been up to? Well, just getting on with exams, arrangements for the summer, hoping to travel in Easter, so just trying to make the most of the sun as well, whilst the weather's been nice. Yeah, 20 degrees on Wednesday, I've been reliably informed by the BBC, but I think what's really quite compelling about your story is the fact that Newcastle University is a great university, we've worked with them ourselves as a company for a long time, but Newcastle University I guess is classified as a non-target union, a traditional sense, and I'm really kind of talking more about the traditional LSE, UCL, Oxbridge type roots. I just wanted to get your take, you've obviously secured a role amazingly at JP Morgan, how was being a student at Newcastle, how did you find that experience? I guess one, getting introduced to finance and finding out about these roles and then two, the process of applying. Yeah, of course, I think for me it isn't really about what university you study or what course you do, it's more about how driven you are. So I remember in lockdown, I think it was the January after we were locked down over Christmas and I had nothing to do with my time, and I thought, oh well, I'll make a LinkedIn profile, and see if I can better myself in any way, and I was scrolling through LinkedIn, all the students who were in my year doing my subject at different universities, and they had several different opportunities in the industry, they were doing insight programs, they'd been attending coffee mornings, they had summer internships already and I was in my first year of university, and I just remember saying to my mum, well, why have they got this and I haven't got this at all, they're probably older, you know, probably at different universities, and I said, no, they're at this university, they're doing my subject, why can that not be me? And she was like, well, I mean, go on, go and do it then, I was thinking, may as well give it a go. So I think I was mostly inspired by all the students who were my year, my age doing exactly the same thing I was, and just because they were at a different university it doesn't mean that they were doing something completely different to me. So I applied to not thousands, maybe hundreds of roles, opportunities, anything I could in the industry to sort of immerse myself into finance, and I think the rejections definitely play a big role. But there's that image that says the power of tiny gains, so if you improve 1% each day over a year you will have improved by about 40%. And I think after each application I was minutely improving, but that's all it takes really, so back to the topic of university, I don't think it matters what university you go to as long as you're driven and know what you want your angle to be then, you can achieve that. And so, so question for me is like, I get I'm in a privileged position I guess because I get to meet people like you every summer. Lots of you, and a lot of the conversation does hinge often about confidence. And it's led me to kind of do lots of reading and things like that about whether people generate that confidence and listening to you. And having worked with you, I know what you're like a very diligent, very hardworking, very confident in that way and I guess that's born out of those other things. Where does that come from, like for you. I mean what's the life story that's led to that. I mean because because some people find it difficult. I think I was always quite an avid reader when I was younger I would always read aloud whether that be in classrooms and primary school in secondary school I would narrate assemblies nativity plays. I volunteered at my local parish in the church I would read there. So I think I was public speaking from a very young age. I then managed to be on the deputy team for my secondary school and I went over to China to teach students about British culture and I had to speak in front of hundreds of students. Fantastic it was such a fantastic experience and as I said improving 1% each, each day obviously over the space of for me 20 years that can rack up so I think obviously it doesn't happen overnight I'm not saying to all these students one day you'll wake up and just feel completely confident. I think if you can do something every day to better yourself then it should hopefully come with ease. And then you mentioned about rejections, and it's going to be more than one, I imagine. And so, I know you've talked about these kind of incremental gains but what would be your process then after a failed attempt. What would you do to assess it, would you spend some time digesting it and reviewing it and then moving on or was it quite obvious each time where you fell short, so to speak. That's definitely a difficult question I would say it's all about being able to judge your character and whether that you are a good fit for the role obviously as students we become quite, we become quite hung up on the fact that these banks are choosing us and the firms are choosing us whereas we are also choosing the firm so we need to find places that align with not only our values but also our characteristics and our talent so if I applied for a role and was rejected I would think well what could I have done differently were my skills related to that role was my CV tailor to the experiences they were after was I not a perfect fit for a role what was it so I would definitely assess where I went wrong but I also would take it with a pinch of salt because the amount of students that are applying to these opportunities sometimes it could be the case of you've applied too late you've missed a deadline I know most firms apply on a recruit on a rolling basis, which I think is quite misleading as they have the position for perhaps months but I know for my summer internships, I was within the first two and a half weeks of opening and it was open for about four months and I knew when there was a cut off and it was definitely soon so I would say get your applications in as soon as possible, yeah. And then did networking play a part as well for you in terms of the front door application being one attack was there a networking angle is that was that effective for you as well. Yes, definitely I would say probably nearly every single opportunity I've undergone was through networking and through the back door rather than the front to be honest so. I was attending a bright network event once this was early when I didn't know much about finance and it was the small things it was having my camera on it was looking presentable it was asking questions. And I ended up being headhunted by HSBC for a global insight program, and I just thought wow off the back of just being inquisitive and you know, wanting to learn I was able to achieve this, and then from then on I knew I had to do I had to reach out to different sectors of the industry. I also applied for a scholarship the Miranda Brown diversity leadership scholarship, and I thought there were hundreds of students who apply and there was only one person who would be picked for the finance and business management sector. So I thought I'll do a bit of research I'll see who the previous winners are I'll get their take on things did they enjoy the mentorship programs as such. So I went to one of the winners from a few years back on LinkedIn. I thought the worst you can do is not answer you know give it a shot. And anyway she answered she gave me advice that I would never have been able to get elsewhere we're really good friends now I did manage to secure that mentorship position. So just from me reaching out and messaging her, I have a lifelong friend and networking connection. I have this scholarship, so back to confidence really you have to have that confidence and be that person who initiates the first move sometimes when you're a student looking to network. Yeah, it's interesting and I hear this as a recurring point is the curiosity. And I guess that opens up so many doors and avenues of possibility. So I'm kind of very curious about is the fact that, I guess, when we're looking at institutions and they're, they're kind of diversity, kind of what they're trying to achieve at the moment. You are black heritage, your woman from a gender perspective, and you've got a northern accent. How is that being as an experience is there anything different is there anything you'd like to say on that, or is it kind of, it's a new point and you just kind of, you're the same as every other candidate in that sense. Yeah, I think, I think the banks are definitely moving towards a more diverse recruitment process and that's lovely to see. I would say that it hasn't really been an issue for me I think I was quite confident I knew what I knew I knew I wanted to do where I wanted to go. And at the end of the day if the banks didn't see the potential in me then I could always go elsewhere and show somebody else. So I think it hasn't been that much of an issue but I would say for any students who are feeling perhaps imposter syndrome or feeling as though they wouldn't belong in the industry I would say that is completely not the case. I think it's the 21st century you know firms aren't looking for carbon copies of the employees they already have because what value would that have to the team you want to capitalise on what makes you unique and add value to a team so I think I do that in ways that others perhaps can't so hopefully that will Yeah, amazing. And you did do the amplify program as well amongst HSBC and other things that you've done and was there anything that you feel that you got out of that experience during the summer program that's been beneficial going forward. Yeah, so there were two things the first thing is your daily briefings shameless promotion for you there. So for any students who aren't familiar and to use daily briefings took place at the beginning of the summer analyst program almost every day, and they would consist of what happened in markets the previous day or previous evening. And I think to have that unparalleled access to the trainers to be able to ask those quickfire questions you know who is Jerome Powell what is the FOMC what does this hike have to do with US and nonform payrolls and market sentiment. These are the sort of questions that you can't exactly Google and get a straight response you need to speak to somebody in industry to get these responses. And then it was interesting to also know the students perspective on markets so the students would ask their questions what they didn't understand and this would help me. But also, it sort of mimicked a an office environment so even though the program was online it felt like you could cooperate with your cohort and learn things from them, we sort of bounced off each other which was nice. And then secondly I would say the simulation so amplify are known for their simulations. And I think as a student first year second year even third year of university wanting to go into finance perhaps investment banking. It's difficult to actually know what an investment bank is what an investment bank does what role they play in the whole financial industry. I think the simulations really allow you to obviously sit through that role and understand the mechanisms of the role. And I know before I'd sat the simulations I wasn't too sure on what everything was however throughout the simulations it sort of becomes clear what each position does. I think as well at university there's a lot of theory a lot of reading. It's not that applied, whereas this amplify some analysts program sort of bridges the gap between theory and practicality you get to actually put what you've been learning to use and I think that's really rewarding. Yeah. Amazing. I'm so happy that you like the briefing. No, it's great to hear, you know, not just of yours but other people's success and look, I wish you all the best I think you're going to do an amazing job. I'm sure at JV Morgan, and I'm sure there will be a return offer coming your way as much as competition from other banks for what I know you are an outstanding candidate. And so, yeah, thank you for taking the time out to talk to me. I know you're going on holiday. So enjoy. Relax. And the best of luck with your studies as well. Thank you Gabriella. Thank you.