 Boom welcome back fam Anthony Jim Johnson air your favorite president of the Manusphere founder 21 studios red man group Patriarch Convention 21 convention 22 convention 21 University the 21 store and 10,000 other things on the internet Appreciate you guys tuning back in it's been a few weeks I think almost two months now actually took a break from the red man group at least the weekend version online here We posted a few episodes of the red man group live We filmed at 21 summit back in the fall last year posted speeches on Saturday's big 21 convention speeches stuff like that Anyway back in the saddle here today with episode 180 Really appreciate you guys tuning in live and those of you watch later appreciate that too Make sure you'd like subscribe a drop of comment feed the algorithm the YouTube big tech monster It helps the video get more viewers game or traction get the speakers have on the panel today More engagement and more fans for them, too. Which is good because I love them. Oh shit my video cut out Well, now it's all blue. We'll see what's going on that in a minute But anyway before we get in today's show quick shout out to our sponsor tactical soap Alfa male soap. It's got alpha male pheromones in it So the beta male will rub the alpha male pheromones on your body on its skin kind of creepy, right? No, it's actually super dope. They've supported the channel for a long time Scott has attended the founder of the company as a tender convention multiple times and he's definitely a part of the Manisphere he got brought into it through his own really nasty divorce case Damn my video cut out again. I know what's going on with that. I'm sure you guys can hear me though Anyway, check out the soap get it below. What the fuck check out the soap buy it below use coupon code 21c I'll figure out my video in a second Enough of my video bullshit though. Let's get into the show Welcome to the show. Mr. Pat Stebbman and Mr. Jeff Younger Pat Stebbman is the world's most controversial in the world's best dating coach and Jeff is a good friend He's all over the news past couple years fighting tooth and nail to save a son from transgender child abuse By his crazy ex-wife who's even crazier than my ex-wife, which is really saying something Yeah Anthony good to be here glad to be here man. Yeah, sorry. I'm invisible right now I don't know what the fuck's going on a little video thing. It was it was blurring even before when you started and Then it really. Yeah, it was it blurred and then it got clear and then you started to have that Cutout stuff. No Yeah We'll see what's going on with that Coming back in Well, you can hear me. So that's what matters. Yeah, we can hear you. Yeah, as we're going I'll figure that shit out, but the audio is fine. That's what matters most. Okay So this episode 180 the title the show is fatherhood the first year As you guys obviously both know you personally But also a lot of the fans who follow me on twitter and the community tab on youtube and stuff like that I'm gonna be a father soon coming up in july. Yeah, congratulations. Congrats man. Pretty excited. Oh, here we go Boom. I'm back for now So yeah, I'm gonna be a father big daddy dream. So I put it my thing daddy Both of you a father's as well, obviously pat you're a much newer father I think your daughter's too now a little bit over to Yeah, Jeff you have two boys obviously Most of the world knows that at this point. We're about 10 or 11. They're 10 years old Yeah, they're twins right boys, but not not identical. Yeah. Yeah fraternal, right? Mm-hmm Yeah, so both of your fathers you've been fathers for longer than me, especially Jeff but also pat So I wanted to use this episode to discuss fatherhood itself both its purpose its importance to men Perhaps the attack that it's under in the culture today But I also want to get into more practical stuff too about fatherhood during the first year because both of you have been through that You know and pat especially recently, but also you Jeff and I have no idea what that's like. I've heard from friends that it's like Exhilarating and exhausting Especially the first month. I spoke with a lot more recently one of old speakers. He's also a new father And he loves it. He said the first month was especially tough And I've just heard a lot of different comments over the years from men in the man is fear like that I'm very pro father heard myself. Obviously like I'm really excited. This is a really awesome surprise I'm kind of growl to mossy. I knocked up my girlfriend. I took his example for how to roll like that, you know He's been bitching at me lately trying to fake and graduate me on this channel Can't keep my fucking name out of his mouth But anyway, Pat, let's start with you. You're the younger the two and then we'll go to the elder of the group here What are some of your basic thoughts on fatherhood both as a dating coach as well as a new father yourself? In the world we find ourselves today this woke feminist should all Well, I think it's a rite of passage I Don't think, you know, I'm not gonna say that every man like needs to become a father but I certainly feel like it is it is I Don't think it's the same kind of initiation like it is for a woman to become a mother Like I think that that is a very very key part of a woman's sort of development and maturity, but I'd say that Once you become a father you really Stop like if you if you were fucking around it becomes a lot harder to fuck around after that And I think one of the like one of the things that I sort of pushed back against and just for my own experience Because I was in the other seat Before is this idea that you know, I got to get I'm not I'm not ready To be a father and obviously there's some truth to that and I'm I'm I know on a practical level. I'm happy with the timing that my wife and I have had But the reality is that to a certain extent you're never ready to be a father. There's oh there's always it's always a big jump into the unknown and there, you know, you are essentially taking on all this responsibility and I think a lot of guys are afraid of that and what it's what's gonna happen to them when they take on that Responsibility and they try to like say, okay, I'll do it later when I'm more ready to take on that responsibility but taking on that responsibility, I think makes you more of a man and a lot of Crap that you would do that, you know, it was just like I realized that I Don't get like that much more done Necessarily than I did when I didn't have kids. I'm just more effective I have I'm forced to be more effective and I've you rise of the occasion I think that you rise the occasion. I think that's the real real gift of it. That's not a bill Do you feel more focused? Yeah, I feel more focused because you have to be more focused now There is a element Obviously, it does take time and it does take energy and I think what you have to What you have to be most conscious of is how it affects your relationship Because I do feel like kids It's it's not so much that having kids like messes up everything with your work and your ambition I think the risk is that it can change dynamics within within your relationship because You know the woman is naturally especially in the first year going to be more focused on her child and I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing I actually had a I was on a Interview yesterday with Mountain Housewife and we were talking about this and even within their relationship how You know this stuff kind of comes up and you really have to set an intention Within the relationship to make sure that you guys stay close and you prioritize each other first three months you can't really do that as much as much I mean you like As in like, you know can't necessarily do date night and stuff a lot Like we tried that with our our new son because I've got two kids now my son's about three months and you know, it was a great time, but Apparently he was he was not in a good place So we're like, all right. We'll wait a little bit longer before we do that again But you have access to extended a family to babysit him right like your parents and stuff Yes, and I think it's very important that you have access to that that family support family support and you know, honestly even even some degree of As they get older some degree of child care I don't mean necessarily like you ship your kid off But just to have something so that you know, mom has has a break for herself And I think we you know when the kid gets to be like certainly a year and a half I think it can be really good from a socializing perspective You know if you have a few hours they play with other kids, you know half-day kind of thing So dude my nephew is one of my nephews is one and a half now a little bit over and he learned how to run recently Which is hilarious because he's loving it. Yeah, just seeing him run around as it's such an expression of masculinity and a young little boy There's so much energy has and he's just I wouldn't say he's hyperactive or anything He's just an energetic young little boy. He's just you know, he's a bipedal organism He just figured out how to be bipedal how to be how to walk around and run around like that I mean he's it was so funny watching him just last week or the weekend attack my sister's cat full speed Just like tackle the thing and it's Yeah, yeah There's one other thing I'll say before you know going to Jeff because I think it'll be a big handoff with this I think one other thing that you don't really quite Internalize when you're single is just how much you love your kids And it's like like there is a period of time like he's totally fine But there's like a like a month where we thought that's something like my son had some kind of he was totally fine and healthy But the doctors were kind of like saying well, maybe he has this thing And he doesn't have it. He's all good. It didn't look like he had it We were all but for the period of time where we thought that he might You know, there was a possibility it could have been fatal or his possibility could could have been seriously disabled And so we went through this whole Like process of like grieving over the possibility of this thing being And I can tell you it's like as a father It's like like I would be happy to have my legs cut off to avoid that, you know future form like it's like It's a very different level of Devotion that I don't think you understand till you have it so Jeff let's let's hand off to you here. You've had a you have two sons. You love very much, but you've also had a very Brutal experience with fatherhood Over the past seven years or so. Yes. Yes, and it's it's something that men need to hear You love father like you love being a father. It's very obvious in the pictures You have with your kids and then how much you fight for them, but what are some of your fundamental thoughts on fatherhood? For you and for the wider culture that men find themselves in today Well, you know, I've always You know tried to uphold three Three virtues and virtues are not morals Virtues are habits Habits that lead to good outcomes and those Virtues are honor courage and commitment and I've honored them more or less Throughout my life sometimes better than others Honor is achieving worthy goals by worthy means Courage is doing what's necessary or unpopular if it's right and Commitment means seeing things through to the end Not leaving things half done And I have to say When you have children You quickly see your own faults And how you haven't lived up to maybe your own standards in ways you thought you had One surprising one for me Was the quality of mercy I found that after I had my boys it was extremely difficult for me to beat the shit out of people anymore nice to do that a lot and Because every time I'd go I go wait a minute. This guy was a kid just like my kid. What happened to him Yeah, what happened to him? I mean, you know, it was it was a surprising thing in me because I'm you don't associate me with mercy You know what I mean, but it was a big character change That was noticed by everybody that knew me to the point where You know, I I Be in the boxing gym and people will be like, hey, you know, you're not really coming at me I'm like, I know man. I want to hit you. I really don't want to hurt you today You know, like it really changed me in a big way in that regard the other thing is You realize that now you got this life That's going to come into your civilization And it's gonna make a mark somewhere And he's gonna use your example to determine what mark he's gonna make So what he does is on you man, it's all on you Right, yeah, it's got free will but his habits are gonna come from you his what and Rand you you're a follower of and ran What and Rand calls his sense of life? Yes, come from you use pre-rational Sense of life will come from you. So it's on you man And once you realize that that this is an immense Responsibility on the level of being king of the Roman Empire Emperor of the Roman Empire like it's it's on that level of responsibility It's it's humbling And makes you seriously think about things Well, it makes me think too that you mentioned your child will go out into the world and make the mark of civilization They're also going to get the full brunt of Whatever's going on in that civilization the world you brought them into that you've had an impact on yourself in some capacity All of us have Yeah, and this is another thing that I think where men and women greatly differ So Deacon at my church puts it like this You know, you got a kid with a with a fork from the kitchen and he's playing around of an electric socket What does the what does the wife do what does the mother do? Oh my god, let me have the fork You can't do that. What does the father do? He calls his friends over and says watch this. He's about to learn something Like it's a completely different point of view, right and so you I think men Think of childhood in a different way for women. It's a nurturing thing But I never thought of it that way For me it was a coaching ground for adulthood You know my son's lives. I'd never intended it to be an extended Disney ride It should be fun engaging and interesting and it should you know engage their their passions as well as their mind But the main purpose is to train them for adulthood and and those challenges today aren't the same as when I was growing out So, you know, I lost a lot of friends actually because my my son's was openly say That they will not defend all women. I Taught him that not all women are worthy of defense Yeah, and you know a woman of that. Yeah, I mean what I'm not I'm not throwing myself under the bus for some Blue-haired feminist, you know, she gets her ass kicked. That's on her should kept her mouth shut So I told you know my boy That's really at odds with a lot of the people in the culture where I live like, you know But I'm preparing my voice for the world as it is Yeah, they can play they can play white knight white knight is him with With masculinity, they they say the same thing. They're not that are not the same thing at all And I did not teach my son's chivalric behavior I taught them to be reciprocal if a woman respects them and is obedient and chased towards them Then they should then they should be a chivalrous towards a woman If a woman is not obedient towards them, then they should not display chivalry towards the woman They should treat her as an equal So, you know, you have to do these kinds of things and prepare them for the challenges that they're gonna face and Frankly that that can put you at odds with you know, your wife sometimes who may want to raise that That's a romance novel hero that she always wanted, you know and raised that for a son a son husband. Yeah, yeah The other thing is a big thing I taught my sons and and I think this we talked about extended families You know, my sons always knew that when they went out on the playground They were responsible for the safety of all the younger children and that if any younger child was hurt on the playground It was their fault They are have to look out for the younger kids just like I look out for them So my sons never got this idea that you get Responsibility when you're 18 or when you get your driver's license or whatever they had their responsibilities from the get-go and At the earliest ages, I told them I don't have rules like I have a whole different approach to this I tell them there are no rules like you have to you have to figure out what creates a generally good outcomes for people in this house And if you do that you have my respect and they know that if they have my respect the answer to every question is yes You want ice cream? Yes You want to go to the bounce house? Yes, if you don't have my respect the answer is always no So they learned very quickly that if they were reasonable with people They didn't have to be perfect like your room doesn't have to be perfectly clean It should just never rise to the level of my attention If you break a glass and you can you clean up the glass so nobody gets hurt. It's not a mistake You fixed it. It's not a mistake So I went through I never even had to give timeouts or anything to my kids My kids just knew that in order to have my respect they had to be reasonable with people and try to achieve generally good outcomes by negotiating with So I modeled that behavior with them, you know, I was not imperious or whatever. I let them make mistakes I mean, I let them, you know, you know Put their finger in that light socket and then or touch that pan and let you see if you don't believe me You know, I'll tell you once but if you don't believe me, I'll let you try anytime also Definitely encourage spiritedness of my boys and that's one of the biggest problems that I see today Boys are naturally spirited. It's what built the entire world has been built from the spiritedness of men So the goal is to try to coach them to control their spiritedness without breaking it And in my house, I let that spiritedness come out with what I called rugby rules I mean everybody's got to come up with their own thing But for me, that means you can hit below the collarbone Any hit below the collarbone is legal and you don't get to come to me about it You should have learned how not to be hit below the collarbone. That's your job. I spiritedness. You mean like energetic energetic combative Want to you know, my son decided that he wanted to learn how to play the violin So I got him an inexpensive violin. I Got him some initial lessons and just let him try it and when that didn't work out I said, okay, pay me back for the violin You're responsible for these choices not me Right, so but they get to try anything they want I don't ever discourage spirited behavior, but I do try to get them to control it and recognize that there are trade-offs in life You know, so my boys Could freely hit each other wrestle each other all they want, you know I had the police called on me at Target one time because my boys were playing a game where they were boxing each other and doing body Punches everybody thought it was horrible. I play horrible at Target And so the police show up and my sons are just laughing their asses off punching each other and the cop goes Why am I even here? They're just playing like I know it's just liberal ladies can't take can't take two kids punching each other So the cop starts giving my kids pointers on how to deliver harder body shots, you know You know, but like I you know, it's it's really a challenge in today's culture to not break the spiritedness of boys And so I really focused on fit hard physical play and responsibility. We were out in the, you know, really out in the elements one of the nice things about nature and Struggling against nature is that it's non ideological. Yeah, it's completely free of ideologies and beliefs And if anything will train that pre-rational sense of life, it's being in nature and surviving tough times in it So we went out. We were cold hungry thirsty. We hunted, you know, and these things I think had a big effect on them and I think have allowed them despite all the Difficulties they've had with their mother has allowed them to flourish as well as they have That's awesome. It reminds me a lot of my childhood a lot of what you described I had the freedom to just be combative with nature and Get get into a lot of dangerous situations. Yeah, play things where I could have died me and yeah Multiple times, but this made me stronger and it made me a lot more self-reliant and Not every kid had even where I lived with the opportunity was abundant Not everyone had that the parents didn't allow it the mother wouldn't allow it the dad wouldn't allow that He was a fuck pussy whatever. Yeah, listen, I hire a lot of young men all right, I have up I interview hundreds, you know every month and It's obvious the ones that have had to contend with nature. All right, you know the way I put it in my company is You know that this guy's clearly taken a punch a few times This guy's had his back against the wall and had to make a choice between two bad outcomes And those people do very well Pat let's head back to you. You're a much younger father You're still, you know in the middle you have one son and one daughter So I think you're still in a much earlier phase of learning And experimenting and deciding for yourself how to be a father and how to raise your children I'm sure a lot of what Jeff just discussed or issues You've been grappling with leading up to the birth of your first child and ever since now that you have to are you gonna have more kids By the way, is that the plan? Yeah. Yeah, and we We intend to have at least four nice. Yeah, we need more white babies. Hell, yeah It's my inner Jesse Lee coming out Yeah, we're at the ultrasound for Alyssa recently her final one and the ultrasound technician asked us on the way out Like how many kids we're gonna have she said she was and I maybe have like three yourself and Alyssa was like Oh at least four and I was a gap I five six maybe more and the chick's jaw just like dropped. She's like six Like yeah, I'm gonna knock this bitch up a whole bunch of times I mean, it's It's crazy because you see so much pushback about it. Like, you know, you have you have kids and then people are like, all right That's it. I'm done, you know, but I we've really even with my daughter Who's now entered into like the terrible twos kind of things where you know, there's a little bit more There's there's it's just It's incomprehensible kind of behavior like it defies all logic It's just, you know, they're feeling one thing one moment and then suddenly they're like angry and It's you know, and you just you just laugh it off roll with it Of course, you know, you you do set some degree of boundaries, right? You know, she gets upset and throws food on the floor. It's like, okay Are you you know, are you done dinner? Right? Like this is because you can't do that at the table So, you know, you're you're starting to introduce those boundaries as she starts to Interact as some some individual separate in her environment, but even with that, I mean Like one of the things I've just found is I mean how wonderful it is having children around and while it makes me in some ways wish we didn't wait as long because you know, my wife and I are the same age and you know, so we're already in into our like our mid 30s basically and You know, we we cut the amount of time that we could have more kids Well, at least you didn't marry an older woman like Rollo It's um, we're lucky to have really good fertility like it's not a problem getting pregnant I don't I don't know that it's for people who want to have a lot of kids. I don't think it's it's smart to To gamble on that to start, you know in your 30s So, um, but yeah, it's it's a total adventure Uh, I know you you wanted to ask a little bit about the first first year I guess I'll just talk a little bit about how it yeah, it's changed. So the the first three months I think this is an important thing for guys to Hang on. Hang on. How is the first day? I mean, what was it like holding a trial for the first time fatherhood starts at that moment at the very latest? I would think surreal I mean, especially like our case was really crazy There was a huge snowstorm in December 2020 over here and My wife went into labor then but she didn't have like a typical labor She almost had no, you know Contractions essentially first stage labor. Oh she had like one contraction and then she was already pushing and the birthing center was um was On a good day 45 minutes, but now we were in a blizzard and so I drove in a blizzard to the birthing center And they know she would did everything she could not to give birth in the cars like almost one of those situations Like we got there. The baby was born within like 15 20 minutes Wow It was it was like two and a half hours total and Even in the second time around she was two and a half hours So she's she's pretty fast with it, which is cool, but the second one we had at home So That was nice and convenient and not a big deal. It's cracking a mile like M&Ms, man. Yeah. Yeah boom boom boom But it's it's surreal Like being there for the whole experience. It's it's a very it's a very powerful moment And You know and then you hold them for the first time and it's just like Yeah, it's You almost like you almost don't know It's it's such like a like a especially like a a brand new newborn baby Like it's not like it's Like when we look at babies in like commercials or when you see babies out like they're at a later stage where there's more interaction or you know You don't you don't usually see newborn babies unless you're you're in that you've gone through it And when it's the first time it's almost like Yeah, it's like your life changes, but you don't quite understand How much it's going to change um I found personally the first month was Not that big of a deal The the first month. I mean the kid's mostly with the mother. There's not really a ton you can do is as a father Um, you might hold them, you know for time periods, but that's that's pretty much it with our daughter though She did get colic around months And so we had about two months of that and You know that obviously wasn't pleasant Uh, I I I spent many nights Just walking around in the dark carrying her until she stopped crying and could go down Um, but you know, I I think people make a big deal out of this stuff. Like it wasn't a big deal I mean, you know, you you lose a little bit of sleep. Um, I don't even really think about it anymore like I When I when I really think about I'm like, oh, yeah, there were some some rough periods and You know, I guess it kind of sucked, but in the grand scheme of things It wasn't just I think people make too big of a deal out of these things It's it's just Let me challenge in this hang on because I think you're a man like me You've done a lot of hard shit in life at a young age And maybe that's why these things out of I'm not so I'm not like attacking you But to me it seems like you might have a bias like you've done a lot of hard shit A lot of guys are just late like you put in your newsletter just the other day I was commenting on it in my newsletter join at 21 studios.com Um, you're commenting There's so many there's so many women today who were just total feminist losers We forget that men are also a bunch of fucking losers a bunch of the time They're fat slabs, you know, they're unmotivated. They don't do anything They literally just get drunk all day and live in their mom's basement work at Best Buy like They've never done anything hard in their life. So maybe it is maybe that's why we see some in comments. It comes to mind Yeah, it's it's a good point. I mean in the grand scheme, especially at that time what I was what I was going through It seemed seemed really small Um, yeah But after you get through those first three months and it's often called the fourth trimester because the mother herself is Like the relationship between the mother and what the mother's still going through hormonally during that that you know next three months Is it's just kind of like really the baby would have a year. It's just three of those months are outside of the womb um Once the baby gets to be about three months and maybe two but three months for sure It's It's like this is like the best time in my opinion. Like i'm loving it right now with my son The sort of three to six month window. They are laughing. They're engaging. They smile um, they're not really fussy and They want to like engage with stuff But they they're not the point where they can like grab stuff and And knock stuff over so like you can take them out to dinner and they'll just like, you know They'll chill there and they'll be happy and there's no problem and you know, so with our daughter We were it a little cocky Because we I was you know going out all the time with her and at that time period and it was just it was great It's like, how do people have problems with kids? Like this is so But then they get a little bit older and they're a little they got more energy and they want to explore and engage and so um still take them out, but you know Expectations for you got to watch them more So um But yeah, it's it's It's really great and then they just learn more language and it's just you know, my my brother-in-law I'm gonna bastardize this a little bit, but essentially said it's like it's It's it's all work, but it's also all joy Like it's a lot of work, but it's a lot of joy And I think a lot a lot of the material culture that we have today will Say like well, this is inconveniencing you. It's not good, but there's so much just implicit meaning in You know like you're you're reading your your kid a book and you know the different stuff that like my my daughter Like he's now like reading books herself I mean she can't actually read what is there, but she Is create stories about it and then she's like pages and and and saying you know babbling all sorts of hilarious stuff It's just it's amazing. It's amazing. I hate just to be blunt on my own here I hate all the anti baby crap and culture today anti natalism what I guess would be the more technical term, but Yeah, like the seth rogan that that 40-year-old actor So I'm bitching on twitter yesterday some video podcast. He did maybe you guys saw it I think I might have seen it from jeff actually. Yeah, so And he's yeah, I think that's where I got it from and it just Our aj was coming to aj Cortez is coming thing on it too Yeah, it's a sick and it's the same bullshit you'd see from a feminist bitching Well, bitching but pretending she's celebrating her life without kids and it's like you look miserable It used to look and sound fucking miserable and you're just coping. Yeah the copium. They're injecting it straight into their veins Yeah, babies are awesome Like I get crying and shitting and farting and vomiting is not great But the rest of it is seems like fucking awesome and I've noticed this ever since I had my first nephew Like babies are fucking great, you know, I always kind of thought that but it's different when you have your own blood your own kin like that That by the way is really what got me to start thinking about Sexual morality and like kind of the rampage. I was on his bang and sluts Uh and how how reckless this was? Dangling with 50 years of a child's life in the future Not just the 18 we talk about in the man's sphere with child support and alimony and stuff But you know the decades beyond that after your daddy then your kids and you stuck with this mother That's right for better for better and for worse. That's right And jeff, what was it like for you the first time holding your children when they were when they were brand new? Well, uh, you know mine were five minutes apart Um when when james was born first Um james uh came out very healthy Uh when he took his first breath his second breath he was in my arms Wow. Yeah, I was the first one to hold him He as soon as I picked him up he he went asleep In in the labor I'm good Jude almost died Without modern medicine, uh, jude would definitely not have lived Um There are some things I could tell you that my ex did to him while she was pregnant. Um, I'll get into that but um Jude went straight to the nikku the intensive care And he was dying and twins are really dangerous in the first place right for any turning. Yes and um They couldn't they couldn't get his vitals. They just they just kept declining and So they usually You know have the mother come and hold the child and often that will stabilize them So they did that but it didn't work So in desperation they they brought me in which is pretty unusual. They usually don't have fathers in the nikku And um, I just reached into this incubator and just put four fingers on my son's back And uh within six minutes he had normal vital signs Hmm Damn. Yeah, and he survived um He came out with A bit of cerebral a little bit of cerebral palsy Is he healthy now? Is he? Yeah, his his cross body coordination was pretty bad You know, we had to reach across his body. He would lose coordination and he had trouble with muscular tonus Which is why very early on I got him into boxing Because in boxing every punch crosses the center line Right, so it forced him to cross the center line over and over and over again And um, it's it pretty much corrected it Um, I had to put him into occupational therapy and so forth. His mother wouldn't wouldn't help him And uh, so he couldn't hold You know the shoelaces right to tie shoelaces And she never taught him to use a knife or a fork properly So he was having to eat with his hands and be humiliated at school and stuff So, you know, we would have just like shoelace time parties, you know, you get m&m every time you you tie it You know, we just all have fun and he learned how to do all that stuff and um He just learned and I told him this straight up. I said your brother's highly very coordinated very athletic But you're stronger and you're more clever So the way this is going to work is he's going to learn something after a thousand repetitions and you're going to learn it after 10,000 So the easiest way for you to get your head around this is just get your 10,000 reps in as quickly as possible if you want to keep up with your brother And uh, he just does that. Yeah So, you know, when when they were learning how to to to jab and do one two combinations You know, james could do it pretty much right away Uh, jude did 10,000 reps and got way ahead of his brother Way ahead of his brother Because jude would literally just go out and knock out 10,000 repetitions over over two weeks Like he would just knock him out When I was in high school growing up one of my french teachers He taught me one of his mantras in the class was repetition is the mother of retention I'll never forget that because even though I didn't like french class. I knew this. I knew this is true I'm like this is definitely something to this. Absolutely And jude, uh, you know There's a different temperament between my boys something we don't talk a lot about is is the role of temperament and this sense of life You know, um, I think I've told this story before You know, I I couldn't understand the cartoons I don't understand monarchy. I can't even follow the plot. They're just weird like this seems like they're just anti anti-free market environmentalism weird political messages on so I don't understand so I wouldn't got the old johnny quest cartoons, you know on dvd You know, they actually use real guns and people don't get up when they get shot And So we watched these things, you know, and we were watching this and my kids were young You know three years old and we were watching this one called the invisible monster and this monster's chasing the little dog bandit, you know and uh James was saying wow. Look how fast bandit's running. I think he's gonna make it to the house in time and And that monster is that monster is, you know, he's so big And jude was saying look how angry that monster is and bandit's scared And johnny's worried about that so like you had one kid living the actions of the characters and the other kid living the inner life of the characters Right and that that moment when I saw that told me how how I had to coach my kids differently You know what I mean like people have to be coached differently depending on what their sense of life is And that's why that concept for man ran is so valuable Yes That that pre-rational attitude that you have towards the world Um not really helped me uh raising my kids, but they're two different boys as you can tell one is very uh perceptive about people's desires What what their aims are and one just cares about what you're doing Yeah, I I think ran would say also that you were observing their sense of life at a deep axis point And that's how I would view it from a psych perspective to the extent psych psychology is not just rampant bullshit Yeah, the the younger you are you're at a earlier point in your life Like an axis point like in like in mechanics or engineering Yeah, and it's going to determine you know a lot of what happens at that age too can determine the rest of your life Big time so you can see that if I had if I had treated jude the way I way I coached james that would have broken him And vice versa vice versa what I so in about this is um You know, it's it's case in point how all the blank slate stuff is just total bullshit And I don't know how it even was able to gain traction in intellectual circles Because all anybody had to do is look at children and you could see that like Children develop differently even within the same family. Yes And You know, you can't say oh like the parents like they're the ones who completely shaped the children's like as a parent You need to take who your son is. There is there is a there's a raw essence your child and What you're saying jeff is so on point you have to know how to if you're if you're a good parent You know how to calibrate to that child what that child needs to grow To his best self. That's right I'm curious about this johnny this johnny quest character. I'm googling him right now Oh, yeah, you know, it was the only show that was on all three networks in the 1960s Huh, and it was groundbreaking animation that nobody had ever seen anything like it when it came out Um, is he buddies with a muslim here or something? Yeah, uh, haji actually he's indian. He's a hindu Yeah, it's so funny because I would such a defensive. Yes haji And haji haji actually is the smart one Well, see, you know, but johnny knows judo so he's always fighting. He's constantly fighting You know, they use stereotypes, but they weren't they weren't like all all mean, you know They mean like you're just poking fun at stuff and You know, they each had advantages and anyway, dude, we need we need a hashtag save apu from simpsons They remember they deleted apu the indian store. Yes the india. Welcome to the quickie mark. Yes We need him back. That's so gay that they get rid of that. I hate that It's also ridiculous because then they got rid of you know A classic indian-american character Yeah, yeah anti they're anti diversity these fuckers these liberal fucker. Yeah. Yeah damn It's really interesting to hear these two different perspectives from you pat. How have you been dealing with uh Now james you only or james jeff jeff james jude Uh pat you only jeff you only have two sons. You don't have a daughter That's right. You have you now have a daughter and a son The your son is still very young and even your daughter's very young, but how have you noticed, uh How has fatherhood been for you? Compared, you know, fathering each child. They're different. How's that been and how do you expect it to go? I'll be honest. I I really Was happy to have a daughter first. Um, and I think partly because As the man I still felt like I had I mean, I you know There's always areas that you're looking to improve But I I felt in many ways like I would project too much onto my son Like when I was first having children, I felt like there was still stuff I had to sort out and I was worried that I would be You know too hard that I would project issues against myself onto him Like I know girls, you know, I dated dated girls. Most of my family is girls It's more of a of a two to one probably female To male like everybody seems to have two girls and a boy two girls and a boy two girls and a boy Um, and I grew up with sisters so I I felt really comfortable with having a daughter and I felt like it would be Good way of easing my way into it. So I was happy With that, but you know with number two, I was like, I'm definitely ready for a son now So I was really happy to have him Um, it is different though. And I think it's it's different I think a lot of the differences in how I mean, they obviously have different personalities and you know, they're different genders and That manifests now already, but it manifests even later more and more and more but I I guess what I'd say is So much of it has to do with your own orientation towards them like I I like I you know I don't know how to put this They're they're still so young that how different in how I would be treating them. I mean, it's it's kind of Weird to say because she's two. He's three months. You know, it's not but You expect that to become more pronounced as as they I can already see how like I interact with him when I when I hold him and How I feel about him Is different than I feel about her not that I don't love her as much as him but that like There's I don't I'm trying to think of how to put this I I want her to I know I have to model Different aspects of a man for each of them like I know that he's going to look to me And that's going to be part of who he Becomes later on it's going to become his own man But I have to model that for who he's going to embody But what I have to model for her is who she's going to marry Yeah, and I can see that there's these different aspects So I have to look at myself at the look at myself and how I interact with my wife Because now she's at the point where she certainly pays attention to that and I and I and I think like I have to be a father for her So that she develops the right relationship with men and the right kind of men It reminds me of the old manosphere dichotomy or duality you'd call it of direct game versus indirect game And it's like your son has a much more direct link to masculinity whereas your daughter's link is indirect It's it's indirect by it's going to be outward for her. She needs to go find that out and seek that out in her life Or just get in a range of marriage because daddy big daddy Pat Steadman's going to find her husband But pat you have to go soon. So before you go I want to have a little discussion here with three of us Thoughts on a range marriage Uh, you know going forward for your own kids, uh, you know for the country. What do you thoughts on a range marriage? um as an option I I'm not against it entirely I I think it can work. I do you think with when families really have close connections between each other And um, you know, I think that there's something to be said for a family being able to vet Uh, another, you know, kind of having more Authority knowing what what to expect from the other, you know, if it's let's say for my daughter Another fit like we would be able to see assess. Okay, that guy's a piece of crap So we don't want her to go with him And to kind of know her family like that's a good family. It's a bad family whatever and also to know Which is important. It's not just objectively how good they are It's also what the personality match Between her and him is going to be is it going to be a good marriage? So I I certainly like see that it can work, but I'll be honest I mean I work with I've worked with a lot of Indian clients and I've seen the whole thing in the arranged marriage space and while I think it can be the lesser of You know, you can find a suitable match I don't know in many cases seeing arranged marriages where the couple really like Is in love and super attracted to each other. They work well together I think that that's the consistent thing is that they they will usually pick people Who know how to work well together? In cooperate together And they they might even be friends But yeah, like any sane parent would try to do well for their children basically And they do have a much better capacity to to vet for bullshit Yes, but there but there doesn't seem to be a lot of romantic continuity That is and you know, you might say that as well for people who even marry in general that you know They people lose that spark but um I I'm much more of I would prefer to simply be To have a strong influence on her And to help teach her about men. So she knows which men Are scumbags and um, you know, I I like look i'm i'm honestly Daddy is that a scumbag? You're you're not supposed to You're not supposed to kind of like talk about this stuff but I also have to be wary about Rebellion with it. Yeah. Yeah, because I could very well teacher this stuff, but then she might rebel against it just to like You know If if if my relationship with her isn't on point. So it's not only about teaching. It's about pacing It's about the trust and everything um But but that's my objective. My objective is to be Is to really is to really guide her and obviously when necessary Especially obviously when she's a child create the boundaries around those people. Um But i'm hoping that I won't have to do too much of that because she'll already have a good sense instilled in her to not You know want to lose her but Yeah, the um the scout was a Ultra-disaster and love this guy. He's on twitter and stuff all the time He's one of my favorite favorite all-time twitter Yeah, same I follow him all the time. Yeah, he made he made a good point here that no system is perfect And I said there's just better. There's better and bad I think there's some merit to this that there is no ideal perfect, you know, zero problem or zero 100 guaranteed system To getting married. This is not realistic It never has been like it's never been perfect And there's also another saying too that don't let the Don't let the perfect be the destroyer of the good I think is how it goes and that seems to be what you're trying to aim for pat. Yeah, exactly Jeff, what are your thoughts on a range of marriage? Throughout the world in america It's a superior system for the rearing of children safely rearing children and preserving your civilization But it rests on certain prerequisites that don't exist today The first thing that it rests on is a social commitment to the obedience of women To their to their husbands and their families and to their fathers and that doesn't exist anymore It rests on a presumption that Marriage is not first and foremost for self actualization romance sexual fulfillment and the like That the main purpose of marriage is the preservation of social continuity and stability that benefits the rearing of children And that doesn't exist anymore marriage has become a completely Egotistical in a bad way. There's a certain kind of egotism. That's good Egotistical in a bad way in the sense of not cooperating with other people It's about emotional fulfillment Rather than the rational fulfillment of social duties And one of the principles that you know in my writings I talk a lot about is the thing that we've fundamentally lost in the enlightenment Was this idea? That's why I call myself a paleo futurist Was that rights have to have concomitant duties You can describe rights equally as duties Or as what today we call rights, you know your ability to freely act But all rights have to have duties which are concomitant with If there are no duties then a right is just a floating abstraction which has no meaning And has no force in the world and can't help us make any judgments in the world, right? So what's happened is because we've made marriage into a right Rather than something that's an expectation of a duty towards children We just don't have the prerequisites for arranged marriage, but it is objectively true By by by information that we can gather from societies with arranged marriages. They have much lower divorce rates They have better educational outcomes for their children that are economic outcomes in their societies And what's interesting about that that crosses all times in all cultures So we know it's a superior system Just to interject real quick pat had to run into a coaching call makes coming up at appreciate it. Thanks pat see So yeah, um, I'm all for it. The problem is the prerequisites don't exist in our society for it And that's why I focus most of my time And energies on trying to change those uh base prerequisites Yeah, yeah, I love it man. You you really dive deep and I think this is why we've gotten along since the day we met Uh, you're very much you're philosophically minded. You're fundamentals focused You have the courage to not only speak the truth, but dig deep into what the truth might be And you're not just concerned with topical bullshit like Build the wall like no no vote vote for women We need to compromise to to beat the liberal the libs You know, I'm I'm publishing all the letters that I've written to my sons onto a sub stack That you can go see them at um, I'm just starting to get them up there They have most of them are handwritten so I'm having a typist type them up put them on sub stack It's at youngerbrothers.substack.com. You can go see some of them One of them that I wrote to them was you know, how should you? How should you think about your education? How should you think about reading books? And um, I advise them to to administer books and education like you administer medicine So if you if you lack seriousness And you lack uh attention to the important fundamental things Go study mathematics Um, if you uh are unable to make clear distinctions in the world if you feel your judgments are go study philosophy If you don't feel like you uh have well established patterns that you can rely on To understand how things are going to go study history The idea is to you know, I've always and my dad taught me that um I didn't realize he had taught me that till I was in my 30s when I realized nobody else was doing that um But this this idea that you know, uh, you know I saw as I was superficial in my youth and I intentionally sought out Disciplines that forced me to go to fundamental issues mathematics is one of them Yeah, yeah I can imagine and you can apply that to your kids, you know teacher kids that education is not an end in itself It's a means to an end Yeah, and what ends they pursue depend on on their sense of life and their character and the weaknesses of their character I think Aristotle said that uh Knowledge without action is useless Yeah, there's something something that's a fact that knowledge Unapplied knowledge meaning without action is this it's floating abstraction bullshit. It's useless. Yeah, and it was this critique of Platonism Yeah, okay. Yeah, and the what he called the third man problem. Yeah Um, and and he also correct. I mean everyone should read the nicomachian ethics if you want the best book that you can get For rearing a child It's the nicomachian ethics by Aristotle Everybody write that down nicomachian ethics Ostensibly it was written for nicomachus Which was a nephew of Aristotle But most of us believe that he actually wrote it for alexander the intemperate Ruler of massedonia who would go on to conquer most of the known world Because he was so intemperate And Aristotle was a slave tutor of alexander Um that he wanted to write a book to help him get get control of himself Wow, and and it's a systematic. It's the first self-help book ever written And it's a systematic introduction to masculine virtues And one of the things he points out is that you can't start with intellectual material You always have to start with your habits If you have good habits then at that point you can go on to build On on it intellectually and eventually even achieve wisdom or what he called prudence But it all rests initially on good habits You just know From watching your dad that doing these things produce good outcomes, right? And then later you can ask yourself. Why is it producing good outcomes? That's intellect Right, and then later you ask yourself. Why is that a good outcome? And that's wisdom And it's a book that just systematically walks you through how to train a child Into temperance control of himself good virtues You know, he makes an excellent observation in the book Because we bendy this word around Virtue all the time, right a virtue um Well, he says well, what is a virtue? Well, the virtue of a thing is that it fulfills its function excellently It's like what you said. It's an action that you know virtue You don't possess a virtue if it's not doing anything Because to to be virtuous is to fulfill some function excellently. So what is the virtue of a sword? It's to cut safely and well Right So in order to inquire into what the virtue of a man is you have to ask. What is the function of a man? That's a deep question And the nikomaki and ethics will take you through that but again It's also an example of how to get to fundamental issues. What is the function of a man? And I think Fatherhood forces you to confront that question more than any other Yeah Yeah, I have no doubt. I've been uh Fatherhood has been an issue. I've studied for some time now, you know With the with my business even we started in the fatherhood event in 2019 the uh return of the patriarchy the patriarch convention Right, but I can feel it already. I mean feeling my daughter the other day kick me was Un unbelievable. Yeah Yeah It's a living thing. It's a living thing. It yeah, it's and it's growing towards its its final cause. It's heading towards Uh fulfilling itself and flourishing in every way and you're along for the ride Yeah, exactly. It I felt like, uh Got you'll watch us someday. Hopefully not this should be cracking up But I felt like almost like dr. Frankenstein or something. It's like it's alive. Like it's moving It's kicking much harder than I anticipated too. I thought it was just a little bump It was like boom. Oh, no, they they, um Both of my guys were jockeying inside, you know, my ex-wife. They were moving around all the time Yeah trying to get jockeying for position So they were doing they were doing like pre natal jiu-jitsu in there. That's funny. That's awesome, man Yeah, I love it. You're an intellectual But not some ivory tower Uh, that's all bullshit Yeah, beta loser shit. I hate it's all bullshit This is what the left to they really their head is so far up their ass with this stuff This is why you get the virtue signaling this pretend virtue moralizing posturing like You know and then and then and then the result is they remove abu from the simpsons. That's exactly right It's actually why I actually appreciate your critiques of christianity too because so much of christianity has turned into academic theological posturing Yeah, and uh, you know, uh The christian religion in particular should be the last religion you would ever expect to be academic in any way I mean, none of the saints Were educated 99.9 of the saints had couldn't even read or write You know, they christianity was expressed in actions It was not expressed by you know, some kind of academic theology or whatever And it's it's uh, it's actually that's highly effeminate if you think about it Yeah, that's an effeminate way of life to live your life You know in a in a in a conceptual dream world That's not really related to what thinks things that have to actually be done Well, you live. Yeah, you're living in your own mind. You're living in your own consciousness rather than living in reality That's right Yeah, and I remember I remember when I first started in my career field, you know I'm trained as a topologist which is considered one of the most abstract areas of mathematics and in fact Prior to about the 1930s They prided themselves and they said well, we're the most abstract mathematics because there's literally no application for anything that we do and After einstein's theory of gravitation it immediately became an applied theory Which kind of pissed off all the abstract mathematicians. They went off to find something else to study Um, but you know, I'm an applied mathematician That's what I do for a living and and people are always blown away other mathematicians that I'm applying topology You know like it's just there's definitely a mindset of application That has definitely been lost in the last 20 years. It's quite noticeable Yeah, things have gone down hell man. I was I mean I was talking about this with my video editor the other day I was in high school in the early 2000s, you know 2002 to 2006 Yeah, and the shit that goes on now That wasn't that long ago. This this shit would never fly this transgender stuff and even being openly gay Like dude, you would get your ass kicked in high school for the stuff And this is pretty recent. This is the bush administration era. This is not a long ago Yeah, which is which is why I always make the point that the propaganda regime that's been like Turned outward from our enemies, you know in the world and turned inward onto the citizenry This propaganda regime is probably the most powerful sophisticated propaganda that's ever been perpetrated on a people And and and you know people on the right are just completely Oblivious to this fact. They think they're winning And I'm like, you don't understand like it it took them 15 20 years just to get gay marriage. It only took them four years to go full trans Yep I mean that's that's an astonishing power And that's a pretty slow pretty slow. It's real fucking slippery man. It's very slippery. They they have more power now than they've ever had Yep, you know, and I've brought this point up many times, you know, you probably heard me say this but You know, if you imagine the most horrible dystopia that you could imagine For me, that's like north korea or something Could you torture? Do you think you could torture a father into actually believing his son was a girl? Now, I think you could torture a man into saying Yeah, could you torture him into believing it? I doubt it Yeah, I doubt it But they this propaganda regime is so powerful. They've got 40 of the country actually believing it now That's more. I suggest that's more more power than has ever existed in human history Yeah, it's funny to you. You mentioned north korea. I think north korea not china, but it could be china They pioneered, uh, really aggressive brainwashing techniques actually yes on on american pw Yes, they did is reminiscent of what you're talking about. That was north korea. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah I wanted to show, um, by the way, so speaking of how far things have come This is a and there's a catholic one too. I can show Uploading a picture right now pull up in a second This is uh, some sort of protestant church. I don't know what's a nomination But this I've been tweeting about this just having I mean on one part I'm just having fun on the other part of the other hand This is very a real and very serious problem and I'm not christian So I'm just an observer, but this is crazy. These are these are butt sex flags that christians are flying and they're flying in their church This is this is insane. Like this is sin. These are I'm not christian again, but these are uh flags of sin that they're proudly flying in their church Like how did this fucking happen? This is this is madness, man like So the best book that I've found that describes why it happens If I'm assuming that wasn't a rhetorical question Yeah, no, right, bro. Um, is a book by truman called called the triumph of the modern self and What he points out is it really began with enlightenment ideas about uh, human humans and um, it's it's one of the reasons why on my sub stack I write about Um, philosophical anthropology. It's not because I want to go into some abstract bullshit But it all starts with the view of what a human being is and the we've had a radical change And what we believe humans are And those changes have led to a belief that your sexual identity is your identity Yeah You talked about this in your patriarchy speech as well Yeah, yeah, and it's a fundamental problem that we are going to have to face if we want to have counter propaganda Against this kind of stuff if we want to fight it, you know in the political sphere If we're going to have what I call samiz dot propaganda, you know, samiz dot is the Is the name that the soviet russians used for true journalism Journalism that would tell you the truth and there were samiz dots You know secret samiz dot newspapers in the soviet union if you want to do samiz dot Uh propaganda we whether you're propagandizing but you're telling people the truth Um, you're gonna have to deal with this amazing Difference between what people think a human being is I had a lunch one time with an nbc producer who was trying to get me to do an interview and it was going to be a gacha interview And um, he finally got me alone and I'm pretty sure he was recording And he said hey, you know, you're an orthodox christian. I'm like, yeah He says can I go to church with you on sunday because it was saturday And I said, yeah, I'll come pick you up at the hotel and go to church and then he goes, but i'm gay And I said, well, okay, stop doing that because it's bad for you and it's stupid So you should stop doing that if you want to go to church to be on sunday Just try not to be gay until after after we go after church that that'll be your first step Just don't be gay for like 24 hours. This is my favorite part by the way of your patriarch's speech You're like you're kind of the story as well I'm gonna put it into a quote soon on a picture because I love that so much Yeah, and you're like stop stop being gay. Just try stop being gay Yeah, just start for doing it just for 24 hours. Just don't be gay for 24 hours. That's that's where we're gonna start You know, and then he said, yeah, but I couldn't be my true self You know if I come to your church and I said well first of all the first half of the service is for people like you So you should be there even before I get there But second of all you and I don't agree on what a person is You think you're a biological machine Programmed to satisfy largely unconscious desires, and I don't think that's what you are I think you're a lot more important than that. So why don't we talk about that and this dude started crying Wow But that's the fundamental problem that we have when people use words like person Man woman. We're actually not meeting the same things And we're gonna have to get unfortunately into kind of mathematical philosophical discussions To work out what these meanings are but that Truman book Is one of the best books for taking you through the intellectual history of how we got here What is the title of the book the rise and triumph of the modern self Okay, check it out guys on amazon. I would assume. Yeah Yeah Yeah, that's uh Well, I was just gonna say jokingly. What is a woman jeff? What is a man? Yeah, because things have gotten so retarded that you actually have to people ask these questions even to supreme court justices and they have no idea They just they just like carrots. I don't I'm not a biologist who knows they do and um part of it is that You know bound up with your sex Is a set of social duties and social expectations So there's been a general attack on social norms Now it looks like a general attack on social norms, but it's actually a replacement Of social norms with new norms. Yeah They're old gods. It's the old gods versus the new gods. That's what it is. Yeah And so, you know, one of the things that drives people crazy drives my judge crazy It drives my xy crazy crazy crazy is that I'm just openly support of Social norms that have built this civilization Yeah, and I support those social norms. I don't support imaginary social norms that dita row came up with in the enlightenment That you know that uh, some some uh, you know guys like benjamin franklin who wanted free love and all this stuff came up with I I don't I'm not interested in those those values I'm interested in the values the bedrock values that built the roman empire That built the greek city states that built the german city states and the guilds That defeated the muslim battles the battle of lopanto that took back spain and the reconquista That's what i'm talking about when I talk about traditional values and remarkably the pagan values and the christian values amongst All the people in that area were about the same Well, I was just going to say what you're calling values and normal have and norms have been norms and normal For thousands and thousands and thousands of years. Yes, you're going as far back as benjamin franklin Even that's just a couple hundred years. That's really. Oh, yeah, it's nothing never mind the since the 1960s The crazy shit we've gotten since then what does now snowballing into, you know, kids being taught about butt sex And drag queen story time and 500 genders and it blows our minds But you know, you know, I've always tried to give an accurate description of the other side because if you have an accurate description You know exactly where to stick the knife, right? Yeah, just fight. Yeah, so this is why you and I get along This is how I think Yeah, so They they play sexual identity as the main element of human identity Okay, so it makes total sense to them That you would get children as early as possible in touch with their sexual identity because To them it doesn't even make sense if a child has no sexual identity. They don't have an identity So, you know, it's to have a child with no identity seems incongruous To them like it's not a person until it has really What you just said is really important I've never heard anyone say that because you're right. Children don't have a sexual identity. No, they don't they don't develop that until adolescence Yeah, exactly. They have the precursors to it in their biology, but that's about it It's extremely extremely minimal So the fact that these children don't have sexual identities is a direct challenge to this this view that Sexuality is central to your identity, right? Well, then how can the child have an identity? So this is why people like pinkers say that you can abort babies up to two years Yeah, I think, you know, that's what the romans did. That's what pinker says You know, that's I think they do that because they see that they see that the child It doesn't have the characteristics of identity that they would expect under their theory of anthropology Yeah, and so It's it's just really interesting if you understand exactly What their ideology is what they're doing makes sense And coheres together logically in that erroneous system, right? This is really I want to get back on a bit revisit this in a few minutes We got to get Steve on here in a second now, but this is really I've never heard this before this is profound It's on top of the propagandizing children that element of it why they're doing it. This makes a shit ton of sense Yeah, it makes no sense Now, let's really wrong, but Yeah, yeah It's own system. It makes sense. Yeah Let's get Steve the dean williams Welcome to the red man group. There we go. Let's have it. I can't hear. Hold on. So let me see Okay, we can hear you Okay, I'm good. What's good, man. Hey, how you doing that? What's good with y'all? How y'all doing? Sorry for being late, man. I was sorry. I'm sorry. I was doing my rancher stuff, man Yeah, Steve's like I call him ran. Oh, I'll called you a farmer and you're like, how annoying a farmer I'm a rancher I'm a rancher You could tell him from like, uh, bumble fuck beach florida I barely know the difference between a rancher and a farmer. I mean, you made sense and you explained it. It is uh, It was cool So steve has a bunch of ducks by the way now and goats and sheep and stuff, right? Yes. Yes. Yes Yeah, I had no idea. I love it, man. It's awesome. Thank you, brother. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that, man I grew up on a ranch myself Nice That's hard work Yeah, it is a lot of hard work a lot of people don't know that I have four acres of land So I got to cut that like oh, yeah. Oh, yeah Damn, yeah, we had a we had a 1500 acre ranch Wow, imagine that Like just getting the salt lakes out in the pasture Oh, we won't think about that. Yeah 1500 that's fucking huge. It's huge. Yeah, like that's like a theme. That's like disney world or something Yeah, that's big Yeah, we actually had 2500 because we had a farm too. So Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah I grew up near the beach, you know fishing and shaker on up none of this stuff There this stuff existed, but it was much more inland. We didn't have a lot of Yeah, yeah, you had that fishery community out there. That's hard work too, man. Don't knock that work. Yeah. Yeah That's some hard work. Yeah So steve today's show we were talking about fatherhood the first year But really it's a huge discussion on fatherhood And all the issues surrounding fatherhood. Obviously steve, you know, I'm gonna be a father soon I can write as a congratulations brother. I'm so happy for you, man. Thanks, man. Yeah, I'm really excited, man. It's um You know, some people were there's been a lot of Comments on it, you know, I haven't done any videos until this one actually talking about it Um, I guess I should do more maybe but I've been posting about it on twitter Obviously in social media and the youtube community tab and it's been really interesting I think maybe you guys have seen it too, but the comments I get You know, most of them are really positive, you know, I don't know 80 percent But like 20 percent or 10 percent or somewhere in that range Are like really fucking negative like the some of the mig towers and the black pillars and all kinds of sick shit Yeah, um Yeah, it's been it's been nasty stuff, but whatever fuck them. Yeah, but steve. Let's talk about fatherhood with you, man Uh, you have uh five children. Yes What was it like holding uh your child for the first time many years ago? Y'all your kids are in college now, right? Or about yeah, they're in college. Yeah Gotta we got first daughter. She's our first doctor. So she's at Baylor for medical. So she's the first of the family So, yeah, uh But real quick, I want to talk about the black pills and the mentals. They go ahead real quick They just don't understand And you know, they don't understand legacy and bloodline and they don't understand that the importance that You know, uh, as far as our ancestors always say that, you know All of us came to them the americas either above the boat or below the boat wherever you came But your your ancestors you are your ancestors. You're your bloodline and to Want to cut that off because someone on youtube told you to is a shame And and wanting to shame somebody for wanting to push a bloodline is sad But I mean that's just hearing her there, but uh first year of fatherhood. Yeah, um It it's awesome because People don't understand the first the heartbeat. I think I think it's gotta start with the heartbeat It's not the i'm pregnant because the i'm pregnant is cool But you it really reality really doesn't hit until you that you know, the Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I remember that too. Yeah, yeah, right. So when you hear that you're like, okay, I've got a living breathing little entity growing and And and it just gives you a whole level of different feelings of a level of excitement. Um You you just you just at that point because i'm very impatient. I'm like hurry up nine months I'm like, you know, I'm ready to toss a little kid up in the air and knock him around and throw him around Throw a football or have tea with him or whatever. But you know, it is just uh, the first year Well, the first one the first nine months is you know, really taking care of the wife or your woman where you You know, you make sure she has a prenatal vitamins You want to make sure she's off her feet? Uh, you want to make sure? I mean, it's it's it's a lot of uh care involved in the first year Now we're talking about that with the nine months up to the year. So yeah, it's all same. It's all same So up to the nine months you want to take care of The person that's holding your future. This is uh, this is your future. This is your blood This is this is you go away. This person's going to be the representation of you So, you know, that's the excitement right there, uh, you know, Steve I can pause you on that I've Michael foster and I talked about this the other day too on the phone But I've noticed my own like protection instincts for elisa and for my my Child in progress. It was almost ready to come out Yes, um that those instincts have been cranking up like exponentially Every month it goes by the heartbeat. You're right the heartbeat I forgot about that but the heartbeat was big for me too when I heard that that boom boom boom And then just recently and maybe not even two weeks ago the first kick. I felt my child kick for the first time Yes, yo, yeah Yeah, and the this makes you this really Michael explained to me is like, yeah You would do literally anything to protect your child and obviously the woman carrying your child It's like there's nothing you wouldn't do nothing literally nothing Yeah, yeah at that point Yeah at that point once you hear the heartbeat, it's uh, it's a different level of man It's it's it's protected like you said It's uh, it's not only the protecting and protecting the family It's also okay now Basically, you know if you have a daughter versus a son, but regardless of what I my thought process was is that Okay, well because of my arrogance. I had to duplicate me. That's why I wouldn't have kids. I'm arrogant motherfuckers But uh, you know because I have daughters and sons but to me It was about protecting the family first and then setting up a idea of when they're old enough To learn how to do brazilian jiu-jitsu because I want them to learn how to protect themselves in this cruel world I don't want them to think that the world is nice, but I want to protect them My daughter's gonna carry a gun full-time. Hell, yeah, you're good. Yeah. Well, then the protection, education Uh discipline Respect. I mean you guys think about all these things you uh Because what we had was a five year a 10 year and a 15 year and a 20 year plan Now we're already in the 23rd year of the 20th plan where we are the grandparents Now that's why we have the farm now for the grandkids and a little That was a plan. I love that man. One of the things. Um, you remember bobby dj. He's been on the show a bunch of times One of the things he he was the first guy I ever heard say this but and Jeff you'll get this too um Basically not only is the nuclear family under attack under america in america and falling apart but the extended family as well And as simple as that concept is I had never heard that before And I never forgot it ever since and it's since becoming an uncle, especially the past couple years and stuff Yeah, I love that it's extended family is extremely important I want my children to be I'm at my daughter and then beyond that to get to know their cousins and stuff They have a lot of cousins already They have uh, she already has four cousins, you know, uh walking around probably even we'll get more And my you know, my sisters and all my brother and all that kind of stuff Yeah, I've got my like let's say we're daughters I got to watch out because I got football and nba and nfl players are hitting on my daughter now So I got to watch that stuff. So uh, but yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, but remember daughters are I mean Because daughters are going to be treated different than sons Daughters get more love daddy more, uh attention more affection more holding Daughters get that the sons They they I always believe they get a little bit of love and you know hug my best my baby Da da da, but when they get a little older, you got to cut that umbilical cord and start toughening the ass up To be prepared them for the world. So but the first year is just Actually A planning stage of what you want to do you want to you know, like, um, uh Uh, we didn't we didn't have those things to have them now, you know, you could put music I love put classical music in the like like uh in the the wife's stomach, you know, you can with earphone earphones like like something like You know, not not these not these beats but something like this Uh back back in the day, you know, because we I'm old So, you know, you put this on there with the little string and play classical music, you know, Bach and Beethoven and things like that Uh, you know, it's just it's just a a layer of Preparing and getting clothes. I remember they'll run through clothes diapers. You got loves you got I mean, it's just All these actually let's actually pause or quick. I want to get back on the um, the black pill and the mctow thing I didn't think about it But this is an issue of fatherhood that we should all think three of us focus on And so like I mentioned some of these guys the mctowers the black pillars some of the red pillars too All these different little tribes in the man is for these little denominations of the hemisphere um They I think it's basically Anti-natalism is a scientific term for the technical term. It's like anti-baby stuff You see You see it in feminism, but you also see it in the man is fair to an extent Not all the wings of the man is fair a lot of men's rights guys are much more pro father, obviously A lot of uh the trad cons wing of the man is fear like they're obviously pro pro father and pro family They're pro patriarchy, you know just good in a lot of cases But there's still these other elements of the man is fear where they You can see them. They're just emotionally butthurt that I have a like a kid on the way They're like the hatred is like super irrational. They're just fucking bitching They're they're saying my daughter's gonna be a whore Like an unborn child like sick fucking shit Like it's really nasty. It's super nasty stuff wishing ill on an unborn child who's innocent of anything It's it's fucking I hate it Yeah, well, I think though those guys should have either been swallowed or Or they've been shot on their mother's back and just dripped off the side of her legs type shit because A lot of these a lot of these individuals that hate like that don't even know why they're hating because if their fathers If they're lucky their fathers didn't have youtube because if their fathers had youtube Uh before you you know the internet hit they might not even be here They don't even realize the the importance of the family name, you know what I mean? So to hate on someone that wants to bring something into this world to bring a little joy I always tell guys, you don't know what's under your nuts. You might have the next president of the united states You might have the next bill gates on your nuts You don't know what you what you have but to get mad at somebody for A choice he wants to make with another a woman that they they choose as a family Because they care for one another because they want to bring something into this world hatred man I you ever you remember you ever seen that silent bob and jay when they they got everybody's name on the internet Was talking shit and they knocked on everybody's door beat the shit out of them. That's what they need right there. Fuck them Jeff do you have any do you have some thoughts on this the anti natalism we see I've seen it any way the man is fair. Oh, no. I've seen it constantly I've even because of my views on surrogacy. I've been even been accused of it in some cases I've sort of choose a middle path but the the The the concept here is you've got guys who have Decided that it's impossible for men to partner with women Um and under the current legal regime. These are rational fears Right. These are rational fears um But that doesn't in any way imply That natural duties of fathers to their children disappear And that's what these guys can't get they They're living again in this world of the floating abstraction of rights They're not living in the world where they have duties And they don't want to talk about duties And um, you know, I hate to I hate to say it this way, but I'm gonna I'm gonna say it this way Sometimes you have a duty to leave a big red hamper on your woman's ass Sometimes, you know, this is what it takes it takes something I have to be careful on youtube and everything But you think you get where I'm going here Um, there are some things the protection of innocent life That imply pretty high duties Yeah, and uh, there there's no right. There's no right that trumps that Jeff, do you think this is getting back to them and steve mentioned Do you think that men have the duty to their ancestors to procreate? Yeah, I told you about that site where I have my letters, uh youngerbrothers.substack.com Okay, um, I wrote my sons a whole series of letters On living up to the expectations and traditions of their ancestors And that they come from a long line of conquers and builders And that these the the standards are extremely high And but the good news is they can stand on the shoulders of their ancestors and reach a little bit higher Yeah and um, trying to trying to get them to understand that they're they're um, they didn't come here ex nihilo They didn't come into the world with nothing. They came into the world As from a long line of men who were look, let even if you're a complete secularist If you're not religious you have even if you even if you're a complete materialist The only reason that that your child exists my children exist Is because our ancestors were extremely good at fighting and fucking Hey woman. Hey woman. That's why they're here and so, um being good at both Being good at both of those things is really is really important and but there's a there's a uh, uh An ahistorical sense of life that has developed Among our entire culture People don't think of america as situated in a 4 000 year old story They don't think of the you know, I live near dallas texas. They don't think of dallas texas As being part of a 180 year old story. Oh, well, I think this is um They look at it as a nation state rather than a civilization state. That's correct. That's correct And so that if you think again if we go back to just if you try to understand their point of view Well, well then why do borders matter? Why does immigration matter? Right, there's all you're doing is protecting geography. You're not protecting anything else Um, and so I think it's very important to instill in your children A civilizational sense of life That they are part of an ongoing story We tell stories about akiles, julius caesar charlemagne We tell these stories. Yes. Um, they're going to be telling stories about you in the future The question is what kind of story is going to be told Um, and this this idea of an ongoing living history and that you're part of this living history People just don't don't think that way anymore And it's caused all kinds of social delusions in my opinion around the rearing of children Yeah Yeah, I mean look at the way Yeah, it's just sick today. Our kids are treated men. I mean all of it the fact that like a you know, the transgender stuff The 500 genders like the butt sex Over half of children now in america are in single parent homes, which means they're in single mother homes Yes, as you know, you've probably seen all the all the backlash I got when I when I keep saying over and over again That single motherhood is the greatest social problem facing this country And that single motherhood is the greatest evil in this country And people don't want to have this discussion big and the mag macto people oddly don't want to have that discussion either The mack oh mick tau. Yeah, they sound mack. What the fuck is a mack? I call it mack toe. It's it's kind of an insult way of saying it Yeah, the uh It's just nasty and it's sad Jeff earlier you mentioned that it's having children reminded you or made you realize More clearly on an emotional aspect that all these men were once little babies They were once innocent little kids. They were you know, six months old crawling around or a year old or whatever And then at some point they got fucked up along the way Life beat them down the system around them is corrupt like totally it's totally corrupt Men's rights issues are real issues and they're they're really bad Um, but yeah, they they lose sight of you know, what's important I think honoring your ancestors by continuing your bloodline is an easy one They get really pissy about this stuff blood. They try to mock it. It's like dude All your grandfather's got laid all of them learn how to fuck and kill and fight and win And that's the reason you exist Correct, and you're just gonna throw that out the window and fucking fuck a sex doll the rest of your life Like holy shit, dude You're nuts Yeah, it's it's it's something that Again, you you brought this up like just 20 years ago that kind of that kind of stuff Would have been enough to get you committed Yep You know like you prefer a latex doll to a real woman. You you know, something's wrong with you Dude, there are dudes on youtube turd flinging monkey. For example is what he goes by who is married to a sex doll I mean, that's just great. They're feminists who marry dogs and stuff So like we got to keep things in perspective here and how crazy it is But that's what it shows the this shows the commonality between the two ideologies Yeah, yeah feminism is an attempt to withdraw women from men and migtau is You know an attempt to draw women a man away from women um Now I I'm I advocate And again, I always try to find areas of commonality or common sense like I agree with the migtau guys men should protect themselves They should they should go to actually extreme lengths to protect themselves Right. I totally agree with that aspect But um, that doesn't mean that we can we can um destroy the human race and not have babies anymore Yeah, stupid just stupid. Yeah, I like the both of you have kids I mean, fuck yeah having kids a great thing, man. It is a great thing. It's an honorable thing and fatherhood is an honorable thing It's it no matter it's not really respected in the courts and our laws and other things anymore. But But in reality in the real world, it's one of the most honorable things that a man can do I want to ask both of you. What is your uh, Steve if you have some comments, but I wanted to ask both of you What are your favorite? What's been one of some of your favorite aspects of being a father? Uh getting to watch door to explore sponge bob and a lot of the kid shows It's a loophole. I get to watch cartoons and stuff. So but no, I uh, I it's so many things because I mean you get to relive christmas moments that you had through your I mean like the first christmas the first birthday you Uh, the first time they scratched their knee the first time they ride their bicycle the first I mean, there's so many first times of all these things It just takes it to a notch the first time They start crawling the first time they they they stand up The first time they take a step and fall down and then the first time they they they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah You know just walking towards you and they come into your arms. So It's it's so many first times that it just boggles my mind how somebody Doesn't want to deal with this but y'all gotta remember And there's a there's children made of love that we have and then there's children made of fucking That the guy just fucked the woman. She got the baby. He didn't want the kid So a lot of these got a lot of these kids like bastard babies that are all fucked up and mad So no wonder they follow the guy that plays with dolls and shit. Whatever the fuck that is, but But for the yeah, but for the first times man, it's just everything It's uh, it's like when you get the first shoe they have on some people break Bronze it and and put it up the first kid shoe. It's just it's just so many first things Holidays everything first day of school. It's just it's just so many things But you as the more kids you have you get to relive the first over again So Steve, I think that's an important point too that a lot of I call them the doll fuckers A lot of the doll fuckers were raised by single moms Oh, yeah, absolutely a lot of like straight up migtail a lot of the man is fair in general comes from single moms Single single mom's probably made the man is fair Yes Yes Yeah, they attempted to raise these boys into these romance novel heroes which which are caricatures of real masculinity That's exactly what what they tried to become And they utterly failed because it's not possible And they utterly failed and uh, so they become nihilistic And they fucked us. Yeah, literally literally married them in some cases. Yeah Well, the probably the greatest experience I had as a father happened at a boxing gym And I was in a I was going to show my sons for the first time sparring and I have this rule that You know You there's only one leadership style lead by example So if I wanted him to climb up the trees and teach them how to climb and I had to climb those trees, you know If it was cold outside and we're going to go hunting and then we just went out, you know lead by example So I wanted him to start sparring And so I said, I look I'm going to go spar And You know, I'm I'm a fairly large dude, but I'm also carrying more weight than I should be so I'm up in the heavyweight I should be down a cruiser weight So I got matched up with this guy who's six foot five 280 pounds outweighs me outweighs me by 30 pounds And uh in a small ring a 16 foot ring which did not favor me at all So I get in there mixed up with this guy and this guy is able to bully me into the corners over and over again And finally pops a liver shot on me and just drops me to my knees So I'm not I'm like great first sparring session my son's going to see me get a tkl right So jude is is outside the ring and he walks around where I'm at, you know, I'm getting a tank count And he says dad it hurts just as bad on your knees as it does standing up you might as well get up And I laughed it made me laugh because I was like that is exactly something I would say And so I made it up on the nine count. They gave me an eight count and we went back in I won on points so um, yeah, I won I won the second the next two rounds so um It was your own your own legacy echoing your own wisdom back. Yeah. Yeah. It was like he He actually used our ancestral wisdom To help me Yeah, and so at a at that age, you know at nine years old He was able to do that and I was that's one of the things I'll always remember the rest of my life Get up pussy. Yeah, get up You're gonna hurt so you might as well fight. It doesn't matter. You're gonna hurt one way or the other Yeah, I'm so excited man. I have a daughter. I mean I was a I had really no preference son or daughter first Um, I did think that having the son first might be better in terms of an older brother protecting a little sister Something like that, you know first child in the family, but I was like not a big deal either way I'm just I'm so happy and so excited man Um, I know I don't show I don't show a lot of emotion. I guess on camera, but it's very real No, I totally believe it and I think you're gonna make a great dad Thanks, man. I do. Yeah Yeah, I'm gonna kick some ass man. I want to yeah, like I said a bunch of kids too Like steve has five or six, right? You got a half a dozen almost Yeah, I wanted six my plan was to do six. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I want to have the most in the mana sphere. So I have to be number one. So I need to have like Michael has seven plus he had one die. So he had like almost eight, I guess Um, I don't know. It depends that you count that but I definitely want to have I want to have as many as I can with Alyssa Basically, I know kids can be expensive too. I think a little bit that some of that's overblown by people who take kids It's overblown Yeah, they're not they're not free though. I mean it takes real money like Yeah, man, you know, I've tried to I've explained this to a lot of young men. It's like, you know If if you actually look at what people spend their money on man um You know, it it it actually doesn't take a lot to to feed a family if you're intelligent and you cook your own food You don't go out to eat. You cook your own food You're intelligent about how you share things what you're gonna find with younger children Is that the younger children will be able to inherit what the older children have? Yes, so you're not actually re buying things all the time Yeah, right. So you're really buying things once and then they get reused six times Right. Um, it's not as bad as as people make it out Plus you're gonna have a multiplier in the house as they get older You know for my sons that was right around six years old They they do they can do stuff for you You know, uh, my sons could load the dishwasher for me. That's something I don't have to do when they were six, you know Um, my sons could run a vacuum cleaner when they were Yeah, so you wind up having a labor multipliers which free you up to do lots of more more productive work that makes money So it's not as bad as people make it out Chores steve. Did you do that with your kids? I mean Oh, man, he's on a ranch, of course Absolutely the matter of fact, they're all back from spring break and I still got a washing dishes and stuff And they here I I get I got free time you you got work to do Man, they're gonna be bringing you home kid. They're gonna be bringing on grandkids grandkids for you Steve Granddaddy Steve man grandfather That's funny That's something I've been thinking about too is that I'm still my kid's not even born yet, but I'm like Man, this keeps going. I'm gonna be a grandfather someday and my child will bring me home the child very quickly probably If you have that many children the odds are it'll happen quickly Which is good. Yeah, same for you Jeff Yeah, grandparent is the best thing too, man, because you get only the good parts of the children The parents get all the bad parts. It's like being an uncle. I get to have all the fun with my nephews and nieces and I gotta do I don't gotta do shipping have fun. That's right But I'll tell you man, um like my my relationship with my great grandfather was super tight. He he had a ranch and Um, uh, you'll appreciate this. He uh, he cut his hay by hand with a german scythe Wow, he mowed he mowed 10 acres by hand with a scythe and that's he stored up hay for his cows Um, and he was a he was a working monster I mean in his 80s He could work me into the dirt like literally to where I was facedown in the dirt and could not work anymore And he could continue to bring in the field. He was just a monstrous human being With uh, I had a real close relationship my great grandparents and my grandparents that that rivaled the closeness that I had with my parents and You know, there's we talked about this earlier, but you know the the um, I think it's uh Donovan says that uh, you know the the uh, the natural human unit of human organization is the gang Jack Donovan. Yeah. Yeah, I would I would Modify that a little bit. I would say it's the clan And a clan is nothing more than an extended family that protects each other And men who don't have an extended family don't have a family form gangs in order to make an extended family That's what a gang is. It's the extended family Uh, they make extended families because they don't have any right? Yeah, but but the the closeness Multi-generational closeness that you'll have and the wisdom that you'll get Will just blow you away. I mean you'll you will blow away your grandchildren with the things that you've learned And you will therefore they won't make a lot of mistakes. You did and we'll go further than you I learned a lot from my uh, maternal grandmother at my mom's side I didn't get to know my my great-grandparents. They were all dead. I believe before I was even born But my and my grandfather unfortunately, too that my grandma was married to he died of esophagus cancer Um, even before my dad that my mom my grandma still taught me a huge amount I learned more from her from the my own parents. I think yeah, I think that's experienced a lot of people who have grandparents have Yeah, you know, I mean my great-grandfather taught me how to work Um, and uh, my grandfather is the one who taught me like almost all the practical skills that I have Um, he taught me how to track Man track and track animals and everything when I went in the Marine Corps that got me all the top slots Um, all kinds of practical wisdom about how to handle money You know, yeah a lot of stuff Okay, well, I want to round out the show soon. I've been going for almost two hours All right, I want to I want to close on something actually kind of specific. Um, see what you guys think about it That's what I'm gonna do, you know, especially because elissa thank god went through that And that's homeschooling versus public school versus private school So this has become a thing on the internet, you know in in america since covet especially when everybody got locked in their house Like a like a fucking prisoner But homeschooling and things on the rise And that ends up perfectly with what I want to do. I wanted that for years when I've read my first kid Elissa was actually homeschooled from middle school Uh at the end of fifth grade all the way through high school as well That's one of the reasons I was really attracted to her wanted to figure this out Um, you know, the physical attraction was there, but when I when I figured out she was homeschooled I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, because I had never even met a homeschool girl Uh, maybe one other ever and my escapades with women I mean, it's extremely rare. They just it's not because they don't exist It's because they're not out at bars because they were fucking homeschooled. Like they're introverted They are not heavily socialized, which is fine. It's not nearly as bad as people portray, which is nonsense Uh, you know homeschool kids, uh, I know one kid growing up example homeschooled He was kind of weird, but a lot of them are pretty awesome. Actually they come out really good So what do you guys think about homeschooling versus public school or private school? Some people still say private school is big, but I'm not into it Well, for me again, I as a as a as your own father your own, uh, you know, your own the johnson clain You know, which you do I respect, you know, I mean, that's why I was till guys, you know, for me Uh, my wife and I talked about homeschooling But I was like I want my kids to be around assholes and in bullies I want them to get an idea of what the world is like By going out there because the kids are evil. I mean kids are I mean terrible They they will bully you they will knock you down, especially for girls with low self-esteem issues I you know, I always I always thought that you know what go in there go to school But there was also a plan of when, uh, your child goes to the second when you're when your child Uh passes first grade what we decide on doing is going to the teacher store in the Summertime now remember for us summertime was play play play play play But not for my kids They had to do at least two hours of study and schoolwork for the second grade stuff So they could be ahead of the curve So it was a it was a plan of attack that every day you you play I just need two hours a day We're going to study a subject that's going to that you're going to run into in the Like first grade to second or fourth to fifth or ninth to tenth whatever it is We're going to get you these and you had two hours you get that done and then you get free time to play but To each his own. I mean I If you want to homeschool homeschool, but never my whole thing is never have to justify what you're doing to somebody else Fuck them Do what you want to do because you want to do it and you see the value in it yourself But for me, I just say for me I I I want my kids understand the world is a nasty place and that nasty place is going to start in that nasty As elementary schools are fucked up as kids. They ain't got no daddies. They all fucked up and shit. So Yeah, this is so you you did very legit summer homeschooling is what it sounds like for them. Which is smart Yeah, we'll pull up ahead of the curve I want to make a point too before we get to jeff that I actually had a great time in public school growing up I never went to private school. I was never homeschooled I never had to go to summer school or anything like that sometimes a school of mandate if you did bad You'd have to go to summer school Or you would fail that would give you an option I never did I was way way way way way way ahead of the class Almost all the way through high school all the way from elementary school middle school and high school even Fucking genius, of course But anyway, I had a really good positive experience in public school I don't know if that's the case these days with kids and I dread to think about even You know five years from now 10 years from now 15 years from now What it'll be like because high school dude middle school is awesome for me elementary school is fucking awesome High school is fucking awesome. I had a fucking blast Um, I don't know about the educational part so much in high school, especially But I loved it like I really had I mean there was occasionally problems obviously, you know people trying to get in fights and shit whatever but I had a blast So jeff what are your thoughts on public school homeschool private school? There's a lot of different angles to tackle with the schools, uh, the you know in the last 10 years the purpose of schools has drastically changed with the introduction of social and emotional learning and all the states and scl is A redefinition of education Uh away from knowledge of academic subjects. They don't even test for that anymore. I never heard of this scl Yeah, you need to look that up. Okay Uh scl is is is a redefinition which says that education has to do with the attitudes and temperaments of the child They're seeking to change the attitudes and If you will the sense of life of children And to do that they are administering psychological tests to children Twice a year in texas Wow to see how effective they have changed Uh, these children's attitudes and beliefs about things And in all subjects even mathematics, they're introducing transgender ideas Gay ideas all these ideas I think uh, we have to think through what schools like today rather than think back to what it was like for us Public and public and private. Yeah In general, um, I'm I favor the old one room school house Approach which is basically what homeschooling has become Most homeschoolers are taught in a co-op. Yep. Alyssa was too. Yep And in a co-op it's basically a one room school house and one room school houses work like this If you ever look at the desks, they're double-sided. Everybody always wonders about that Why are the desks in one room school home school houses always double-sided because here's how it work The teacher would teach, uh, a subject to the people in the front, which were the oldest students would teach And then it was the the job of these older students to literally turn around in their desk and teach The subjects for the previous grade to the children behind them So children learned by both and being instructed and being instructors Wow, I know that it's one of the most effective ways to teach and Marine Corps calls it the c1 do one teach one method It's the only way to learn something so Um, the problem is that I think that the values have gotten so bad that for a lot of people The calculus is probably going to be to homeschool if you're on the right Um And co-ops are probably the best way to do it the christian schools have all in texas. They all have to do scl Wow Private schools are doing scl. Yeah, if you take mandates what they do That's right. If you take any state funding whatsoever, you have to do scl And by the way, all of that psychological data Uh on children that is collected in these schools Uh Texas sells that to google Wow, and google sells it out for scientific studies Now they say it's anonymized, but remember 23 and me was supposed to be anonymous data But their AI techniques allow us to de-anonymize all this data So the answer is your children give on these psychological Exams that are given in schools now are going to follow them into their jobs and everywhere else for the rest of their life So there's very good reasons. I think to homeschool. It's not an answer for everybody. I agree with that um But the other thing is, you know, I'm not sure that these professional school curriculums, um are any good Um, I'll give you an example with my boys, you know, I taught them A geometry in the woodshop So we were making cabinets and things like that and I wouldn't let them use a ruler All you had was a straight edge with no marks on it. So you can't measure So they learned how to do everything with ratios before they ever learned, you know arithmetic And they were doing division Subtraction multiplication division and even taken square roots. They didn't know what those were But they were doing that all with ruler and compass with geometry Wow, um, and and had a blast. They made their own beds. They made their own furniture They can make the table exactly the way they want it And we could do all this stuff. Those are the kinds of things that you just can't do in public schools Um, and I think the what's called the socialization component that people worry about Happens in these co-ops which are quite large often Yeah, and both in texas. They have their own sports leagues. They're that big Wow, yeah, I don't think elises is that big on the west coast of florida They would be anywhere from like five to ten students usually I think the biggest the biggest ever was like 20 She said remembering that right. There's also a lot of um, anti male Ideology in schools. I'll always tell this story. I saw this in capel texas Because the library public library in capels right next to a fifth grade school So watch this girl sitting there reading a book watch this girl on the playground walk up to this boy She didn't say anything to him. She kicked him square in the nuts and dropped him And then I watched the teacher come over and expelled they had spelled this boy I watched the parents come and take him away He was punished because he got kicked in the nuts Wow, right? And so what boys are systematically taught in public schools is that in any institutional conflict with a female they lose Yep, they lose And they I think that's where you get a lot of this passiveness of young men towards women Willing to take all this shit from women and and uh And I think it comes from the fact that in schools they're systematically and Punished in huge and draconian ways In any conflict with females I had to go in when my little brother was still in high school I was you know up and I was out of college at that point But I'm a lot older than him I had to go into his school talk to the principal and the vice principal and threaten to sue them To stop fucking harassing him and threatening to kick him out of school for this frivolous bullshit that didn't mean anything He called a girl a slut for example Well, she had called him, you know an asshole and all this shit and they're like, well, you know He called her so I'm like, I don't care like you're gonna leave him alone. I'm gonna fuck foul fucking law I didn't say fucking I was I'm a foul lawsuit. I'm not playing They they they backed off like to my to my I was really happy with it I didn't know what the hell I was doing I was like, you know what I bet if I go fuck with these people and play it straight They're gonna back the fuck off This was in 2000 this was like 2011 maybe that's all Awesome Yeah, I mean That's that's what you see in public schools a lot is that female and a lot of female bad behavior that we witness on tiktok yeah started in schools because Girls could do whatever they want and boys are punished if they ever complain about it Both of you by the way, did you both go to public school throughout your life when you're young? I went to public school. I went to a very rough high school very rough Nice My high school was they've they've actually closed the high school down because it was situated in a very unfortunate Spot it was right on the border of the third and the fifth wards in houston texas So I was probably the only white person that lived in the fifth ward as far as I could tell I was the only white person in three square miles But that that meant that the latino gangs and the black gangs would fight in the school because it's right on the border So they split it up into two schools to get rid of the gang fights So I grew up in a pretty rough high school Wow Yeah, I mean I live in uh richmond texas. So I I know I went to school though. Yes. Yeah, you know the fifth ward, you know the fifth Yeah, I drive through there sometimes I scare my kids sometimes Yes, so I lived right at the corner of all dean westfield in jensen drive if you know where that is Yeah, I know that Yes, wow Fucking texas man. Yeah, there I am There's a little bit of this when I was in high school But not even at my high school my high school didn't have any there's zero tolerance for this shit We had a very masculine, but when I got in there Uh and my principal was very masculine And then the new one that came in was still very masculine These days who knows but when I was there in the for the four years, there was no tolerance for this kind of shit But my dad told me when he was in high school just up the road at a different one They were like race riots at my high school where the blacks and whites would get into huge fights hundreds hundreds at a time They would the whole school would have to get closed down the cops would come and be a huge fucking mess There's nothing like this when I was there, but yeah, we had a lot of that I everyone carried weapons in high school because you had to be armed Wow, a lot of knives so I I went into the shop class and Made a leather sap if you don't know what that is. That's just a leather tube with filled with heavy sand And I used to tuck it down in the front of my pants And I when the teachers would would look for weapons, you know, they don't grab your balls And I know they were suspicious. They were like is that kid's dick really that big? Wow, you know because I'd put that sap down there But I carried that sap with me all the time. It saved my life on a number of occasions Wow. Oh, yeah, I've been it's I got it's when I got into knife fighting and blade fighting was was there. Yeah Yeah, there were not a lot of knives when I went to high school. This is definitely a different era I mean, I've seen movies obviously where people bring guns and their trucks to school and shit But all that's gone too, which I think is bad. Yeah, right, you know ruffles and trucks are fine Yeah, there's nothing wrong with bringing it keeping them in the parking lot or whatever But we had weapons in school, man. We had metal detectors way before it was cool Wow, that's why I used the sap because it didn't set off the metal detectors Yeah, yeah, you gotta get smart gotta thank man. There you go Dodge that shit Well, I'm gonna round out today. I end up, you know round up today's show I really appreciate both you hopping in Then Michael Foster couldn't make it unfortunately, but we'll get him next time. Okay Yeah, I think he's sick or something too. So he's really having a rough day But yeah, it's been a good show. I'm gonna put links in the description to everyone's stuff youtube channel Twitter sub stack you mentioned for your sons or the one about your sons Yeah, I really appreciate it And I look forward I look forward to introducing both of you to my daughter at 21 summit Uh, later this year in florida can't wait can't wait Yeah, Alyssa's real nervous about bringing her to the convention and stuff, but she'll be there Okay Everyone else appreciate you tuning in live to the red man group for watching the recording Share it on social media hit like leave a comment any comment helps a lot. I appreciate it Algorithm sees it more men see it. That's good Tune in next weekend. There will be another red man group most likely with pat stephen episode 181 If not, it'll be soon after that. I'm gonna do a one-on-one deep dive with pat stephen on dating and relationships Um, steve jeff. Thanks again for your time everyone else. Peace out steve is nice