 Good afternoon everyone we are going to give ourselves one minute or so before we start in with our public feedback session for the next chief of police. So, we appreciate your patience but if you could just wait one or so more minutes so that other folks can join. Thank you. We're going to start our session. So, first off, welcome everyone. Good afternoon. My name is Jim O'Donnell I'm an HR manager here at the city of Durham. This is our feedback session that we are holding for residents of Durham about the upcoming search that we have planned for the chief of police. So, several years back, we conducted a similar feedback session or several several feedback sessions during our search for our current police chief which is Chief Davis. Chief Davis has done a great job here in Durham and she is moving on, and we will have some big shoes to fill. I said that we had done some similar sessions in the past, but in the past we had physical public meetings meetings where everybody was in the same room at the same time. And of course, our situation has since changed quite a bit. And for safety reasons and due to COVID. We are conducting this session and we conducted one yesterday in a virtual format. Before I introduce our search firm that will be facilitating this discussion. I wanted to make everyone aware that there are several ways that they can provide feedback. We have a website that website provides a survey that everyone can fill out. We have those surveys both in available in English and in Spanish. And they are both going to be or that both surveys are on the city's chief of police website. There is a specific page. We will be putting that link in the chat feature of this zoom call so that you can have easy access to it. Those surveys will remain open until June the 15th. And again, the specific website link is going to be put in the chat. There is also a phone, a phone number that we have that allows you to provide a voicemail. So if you are interested in using that you can provide your feedback in that voicemail and that will be collected. That information will be collected and will be sent to the executive search firm developmental associates. That telephone number is also going to be put in the chat. The phone number is 919-560-4273. Again that telephone number. One more time 919-560-4273. I strongly recommend that if you are interested in providing feedback and maybe don't want to participate in this particular part that you provide your feedback in either the surveys or on the voicemail system that we have set up. Your feedback. Unfortunately, during this during this meeting is going to be limited. We, we, this session will be open for an hour and 30 minutes. So chances are that there will be some people who maybe want to provide their feedback but may not be able to get in. So again, I strongly encourage everybody to use the alternative methods of giving your feedback. So as I said this session will be open for an hour and 30 minutes. In order to give as many residents as possible the opportunity to speak, we will be limiting our everyone's time on the mic for two minutes. So please provide your input as succinctly as possible. Please know that if any inappropriate or offensive language is used that that participant will be blocked. And speaking, I will let you know I will call out your name, and we will unmute your line and you will have to unmute yourself. So, when you are discussing and giving your feedback in. I will allow or I will let you know when you have 10 seconds left of your two minutes so that you can complete any final thoughts. To speak and provide your feedback to the search firm, please put your name in the chat feature. Make sure that your name that is in the chat is the same name that you have on your screen. Sometimes they are different. So again be aware of that. The chat feature is the icon at the bottom of your screen. That looks a little bit like a speech bubble. Once we have your name, I will call your name, and you will need to unmute yourself so that you can be heard by all. And with that, I'd like to sort of open it up now and introduce our facilitators. And our panelists from developmental associates. We have two folks here and of course we the owner and and main facilitator Dr Steven Strauss will be joining us shortly. When he comes on I will sort of introduce him and have him speak and give a little bit more information about developmental associates and the process in general. We have two folks from developmental associates that are here. I will pass off right now over to them and have them introduce themselves. If they could let us know a little bit about where they come from. They're both former police chiefs and are now both working with developmental associates on this incredibly important search. So, I will start with chief past base more. Good afternoon my name is Pat mays more I'm with developmental associates I have worked with the company for the past six years. Prior to that I spent 29 years with the carry police department and spent my last eight years as the police chief. And I'm very happy to be working with you all to help find the next police chief for the city of Durham and captain put. Yes, sir, former former chiefs with the Charlotte make more police department I was there for almost 29 years last five years as chief of police. Now, a consultant with developmental associates, looking forward to hearing your questions, your responses and your expectations as we move forward in the process for the new chief. I think, Dr styles is going to explain how everything works for the process moving forward from the perspective of developmental associates when he when he logs on. And I would expect him to log on shortly. I know that we also on the website that is posted in the chat feature there is a page that provides a calendar, which is an anticipated dates for which we are completing each phase of the process. So I know that is something that has come up previously which is how long is this search going to take and when when will that news chief of police be in in Durham and working working and so indeed there is a calendar that is on the website. We do have our first speaker who has joined us. And so the first name is Jackie W. Jackie, if you could please. If you can unmute yourself and you can speak when you're ready. Okay, can you hear me, we can. You can hear me now. We can. Thank you, Jackie. Okay. How are y'all doing today. We are good. How are you. I'm fine and former chief base more I remember when you were the chief over and care I remember you well. Just to let you know a little bit about me. I was a former city council person have got seen at least four and a half chief been selected in Durham was on the school board to. So I have a lot of expertise and how this works and I know how it works. And I know that the chief is ultimately hired by the manager, but the city council has a lot of influence on who they want. One of the things that I'm concerned about is the fact that when I found out about this was from the news last night that we're having this public hearing on what we like to see in the chief on the news. And that information hasn't been shared with the masses of people in Durham that are experiencing the most crime we have a spike in crime. And there are a lot of people that probably would like to communicate with this in this form, but don't have the information they don't they are older people that don't have zoom accessibility. And if they do they don't really know how to use it. And I've just got off the phone with a gentleman that wanted to get on here and I was trying to explain to him where to go and try to get it. But it's a lot of impediments. And I think that this conversation need to go a little bit further than today and so that the community can really have some input because I've been on Facebook this morning I have to posted it and trying to get people to comment. Or at least come in and say something because you had nobody yesterday other than the paternal order of police person. So you know we keep up. But one of the things I saw that you were asking was, what will we like to see in a police chief. I'm just going to be honest with you. The same thing that we saw in the chief that's outgoing. There's nothing any different that I'm hearing in the community and I've been a community activist in this in the community of Durham for at least 40 or more years. I'm 62 years old. So I've been out here a long time. And I represented one of the most one of the areas of Durham Northeast Central Durham that had the most problems back when I was on Council. And we understood about community police. And we knew we had police officers then some have retired since then that were vested in the community they they had a relationship with the community they understood the young people they understood it. Basically everybody and a lot of them were from Durham. So, you know when we when they brought Chief Davis in, you know we thought we had hit the jackpot where we will we still think we hit the jackpot. We just feel like that the lack of support. And I'm just being completely honest the lack of support, as it relates to the power to be which is the city council is one of the main reasons that our chief now is no longer our chief will be leaving us because we sat through 2019 budget hearing and the city council for her on just trying to hire six people to replace some people that's probably retired they probably gone to better job they probably are leaving because of illness. All types of things we know why people leave jobs or retire from jobs. And just that alone was a struggle and then from that point on everything that she said we haven't done. She has been it's been a struggle with her in the city council even though she's formerly hired by the candidates to the land of this. She has been struggling. She's struggled. So at this point it's going to be interesting to see how you're going to bring somebody in that wants to come in and have to deal with that type of behavior from the city council that they literally have to be accountable to. So that's one of the things and I don't think anything that she did or didn't do that she didn't do well that certain for a new police chief. Make sure that they have that she had great community relationship, you know she was personable. And I wanted things I'm hearing in the community is that we need somebody that actually has vested interest in Durham meaning that there are people within our organization that have been in Durham all their life they have spent their whole career here. Matter of fact we have one police chief Steve Chalmers who actually was the vested member of the community spent his whole career in Durham. And that made a big difference because people moving personally and with chief and she came, you know, while she may not have been a native of Durham, she, she became a vested member of the community real quick. And that's what we need to see a vested member. Jackie, I hate to interrupt. But I know our two minutes as long past. Okay, we wanted to give you as much time and we didn't have any folks waiting. No, I, again, thank you very much for the feedback. And I hope you stay on for the rest of the of the program so that we can, you know, you can absorb what comes out and I think that hopefully some some answers may come out from from future comments and feedback. So I appreciate it. I'm going to sit here. I'm going to sit here and watch. All right. All right. Our next speaker is pig Ray. Peg, if you can. On your, on your screen, you're going to have to unmute yourself, you're going to be put onto the panel and then you can unmute yourself. Please go ahead. Peg, you need to unmute yourself and turn your mic on. Okay, am I on now. You are. Thank you very much. Okay, good. I just have a short message. I've been really concerned and interested in the police situation I have a grandson who has a really good friend as an officer and he shared many of the concerns they have. And I think one of the important things as the former speaker said was to be supportive of the community, but also to be a supportive and active person in supporting the police. I did want to share that I am concerned that you have the funds still in front of the police department. When you're trying to get somebody to come in. It seems a negative message to me for them to think all they want to not support us. You know, so I think it's really important to have somebody that supports their men and supports the community. And I do think it's important to get that defund. Well, you could just erase the DE and then you'll have fun to the police. That would be a positive thing to do. And I think it's kind of sad that there were a lot of requests that the former chief had that were not approved. And I think that the council, as the former speaker said the major things that the chief asked for to make the police and able to do their job need to be supportive of what they asked for, like the tasers. I mean, if you have a taser and it's going to help settle somebody that's out of control, then you'll have less chance of using a gun. I mean, I don't understand why the council hasn't been more supportive of the police and the officers. I need to have a chief that's a real advocate for the community and for the police officers so they can do the job and protect the community. So that's basically what I wanted to share. Any other last thoughts? We only have about 10 seconds left. No, not really. I'm just thankful you're opening this up for people to share their concerns and we'll just be hopeful we get the best. Thank you. Thank you very much for joining us. For those of you who may have joined after we initially came on online, I want to let everybody know that in order for you to speak, we are going to need you to put your name into the chat feature. We will call on you. We will need you to then once we call on you, we will need you to then go and unmute yourself so that you can speak and then we will have you provide your feedback. We are trying to, depending on how many folks we have that attend and want wish to speak, we will limit you if indeed it goes longer than two minutes, but we will allow you to sort of wrap things up if you need to. And so I wanted to see we do have one more person that has put their name in Malcolm. If we could have you unmute yourself, we're going to put you on and you can unmute yourself and give your feedback. Welcome Malcolm. This is Malcolm Carol and I just have a few comments of I don't think who we hire as the police chief is nearly as important as who we elect is our city council. Regardless of who the police chief is if the city council does not support them as the prior lady has said, and the one prior to her defund the police and funded police station is not a recruiting. That doesn't help recruit somebody. Durham has 18.6 police officers per 10,000. Raleigh has 54 per 10,000. Durham's violent crime is twice the national average. It's about 1.66 times more than North Carolina. What we need to do is have a city council that is going to support the police when they ask for resources we need them defund the police is not the answer. We were not hiring police officers now because we couldn't get approval from the city council and look what's happening to the murder rate. It's up about 89% this year. That's about all I have to say. Voters come out and vote. Vote for the city council members vote for people that's going to protect your neighborhood. Not somebody that's going to do some ideological BS. Malcolm, thank you very much for your for your feedback. I know they were. Yeah, pleasure to have you. I know there have been a couple of comments that have been put in the chat feature and I just wanted to raise those with our associates here from developmental associates. I'm not as familiar with what operation ceasefire was. They would like to see a chief who has experience and a commitment to implementing operation ceasefire. I'm not as familiar being in the human resources department. I'm not as familiar with what operation ceasefire might be. Have either of you have any insight as to what that what that what that initiative is. Yes, I do have some surface of a knowledge of the program it is to be proactive as a community grassroots community program that you hire. Basically, people who go out and proactively engage the community, try to resolve disputes before they know in an opportunity in an attempt. I'm from being in a community so it's just some proactive members who are credible in a in a community who go out proactively and engage in people who might have had some conflict trying to deescalate that so it doesn't escalate into violence. Research has shown in areas that has been implemented in the country that it does have an impact because the people engaging in that work have credibility and have some training to help them deescalate situations that would otherwise become violent. Thank you. Another quick comment that came in was about incentives for people who are coming in as police officers to live in Durham. I know you both were chiefs here locally and may have experienced in this. Were there any incentives that you used in your own experience to incentivize officers to live in your communities. Sure. And for what I'm hearing from the officers and their feedback session, some of those have already been implemented the take home car policy. For instance, but what they're looking at and asking for additional opportunities where some agencies would give a signing bonus. After completion of training fill training for those who come on board. Some people do a referral bonus for active officers who refer other people who become certified and trained as officers in their organization. And also some agencies provide incentives, be it a signing incentive or, or a residency incentive for those officers who actually live within the jurisdiction or within the county. So there are a lot of opportunities. There are a lot of options there to the point that everybody's been making it has to be approved in the budgetary process to move forward. But there are a lot of innovative ideas that the officers had to some of which I just spoke of that could that could incentivize people who have that interest to become officer. And Pat, what were your experiences and trying to get commitment from officers to live in the in your community. Well, and carry it's much like Durham the cost of housing in the city is extremely high so it really the incentive is for them to live in the city is to pay them the salaries that will allow them the opportunity to live in the city. We also had a program that would assist them and down payments for their homes. And I can tell you that not many officers invest that not many people took opportunity to invest in that. But it was a program that was offered to try to try to bring officers in but again without the without the pay they're not going to be able to afford the housing costs and in communities around the research triangle park. Thank you. I do want to emphasize and I know it was just put back up in the chat feature that if you are interested in speaking. Please put your name into the chat feature. We will then call on you and you will need to once we call on you you will need to unmute yourself so that you can have the opportunity to speak and be heard. If indeed anybody is interested in providing feedback now is the time please put your name into into the chat feature if you wish to speak. So while we are waiting for that Mr. Donald would say that one of the some things we did in carry that did increase officer salary. We had a transfer program so we get officers could come in and we would actually allow them to negotiate their salary based on their education and their experience. So they did not leave a department or come into our department and start all over again so we did value their education we value their years of service and we allow them to negotiate their salary. And that was a that was a huge benefit for officers coming into the department and a huge recruitment recruitment tool for us as well. But I will tell you that one of the things that came up a lot is in our sessions with the officers and sworn staff is. They do not feel like they're supported and that lack of support just leads to terrible morale in the department and they again they also believe that without support from the city leaders leaders and city council that there's no way a chief can come in and improve that morale. Thank you. I know we are still waiting for Dr. Strauss to join us and give us a little bit more detail about the specifics of the process. So once he does come in I will I will cut over to him, unless we have a speaker of course, but I'd like to definitely get some more details from him about his process. I did want to bring up and I know this came up yesterday in our in our session yesterday was something that that was, I guess inadvertently sort of not specifically mentioned in our in our survey that we have on the city's website is gun violence in Durham. And so I know that this is an important thing to everybody, I think that gun violence may have been, as I said wrapped up in another one of the comments in our survey under violent crime or crime in particular gun violence in the city. But it wasn't specifically mentioned. I'm reaching or wanted to ask both of our members of our search agency, what their thoughts are on, you know, how chief of police can impact violent crime in particular gun violence in the city. Go ahead chief, you will copy and comments. Sorry. Mainly about how or the role that a police chief would have in curbing violent crime and in particular gun violence in the city of Durham. Sure, just like anywhere else. They have to set the expectation are clearly articulate what that work looks like, because the concerns that we keep hearing in during this process and others is they want a delicate balance between commitment and empathy. So they want officers who are not only enforcing the laws but giving people the opportunity to, you know, fix the mistakes that they make so mainly the chiefs going to have to come in, talk to the officers, talk to the community, see what those expectations are and see what truly the community has a tolerance for when it relates to gun violence what you don't want to do is have a one size fits all. It's a plan that just a lot of arrests, a lot of people randomly, without being specific to those who are truly causing the problems. That's the essence of community police, establishing those partnerships, getting that trust getting that information so they can be very strategic in their work to combat the violence by taking off the people who are using firearms to commit violent crimes is very intentional very specific but it starts with a listening process, so that you can develop a strategy that fits Durham. It's not a one size fits all. Any other feedback Pat. No. All right. There was a few other comments that I wanted to bring up that were put in the chat. One of them was about a desire to see a chief who emphasizes de escalation. It's, it's a term that has come up and of course is is, you know, talked about quite a bit, especially with policing efforts. I guess what what, what would a new chief be sort of in your eyes what would a new chief need to do in order to sort of focus the culture of the police into something that would embrace de escalation. Again, it starts with reviewing policies, making sure that at their core, that is your goal, stating it explicitly to everyone, external to the organization and internally that you expect our people to use the least amount of force possible when they're having to detain or arrest people and the goal is always communicating so that you can de escalate. I think it has become a part of the way policing in the 21st century is going to have to be done. So the expectation on the new chief coming in, establishing those that that as a policy eat it is not unreasonable. Many organizations have done it anyway, and as a result of what we saw last year, the demands of the protests. I think a lot of those demands were heard. And the expectation moving forward is any chief in any organization is going to have to use their policies, and more important, define their culture around the need to de escalate. Instead of going into a situation and potentially being the cause of it escalating beyond the level of violence that existed prior to your ride. I think it's just a part of how the policing profession is starting to view their role when they enforce laws. And who would the new police chief work with more directly in order to involve social service agencies and community engagement. I know that was another comment that came up that, you know, that is integral. I think in order to, you know, for for the community involvement and community policing but also to, you know, make sure that we have the right people at the table for these de escalation initiatives. Sure. That's not going to change Jim regardless of what the topic is. I think the request of everybody who's spoken so far they want to chief was going to come in and listen, and then respond specific to the needs of Durham. And when you talk about de escalation again as I said, it's really about the concept of being able to communicate and to calm down a situation to be an active listener and to listen with your heart. It's an empathetic approach to policing that is trying to resolve an issue without having to utilize force in the first place. So it's more philosophical but tactical, you drive that by policy, you set those expectations, and you get trained in offices who model the behavior that you're looking for who they might engage are going to be everybody that you listed, from the conversations with officers up and down the ranks to community members, having an advisory council of external members of the organization who can give you the feedback and give you expectations and give you priorities that they want to see one of which would obviously be the officers ability to de escalate situations, instead of doing the reverse. One of the most important things I think is teaching our officers through training how to de escalate situations and there's several train several different types of training out there for that I can tell you with the lack of resources that were cut. Many years ago for dealing with the mental health. The police end up dealing a lot with people that are in a mental health crisis and the crisis in a vision team training is another training that can be used to help officers work with and de escalate situations with people that are in a mental health crisis. But those the lack of resources does make it it makes it absolutely necessary for the officers to be able to gain those skills and be able to use them effectively when they are in a situation where someone is in a crisis and not necessarily committing a crime but they're in a crisis situation that may lead them to assault someone or become combative and it's essential that we learn ways to deal with that as opposed to engaging them physically. Thank you. Another quick comment that came in was about better communication better working relationship between say the chief and the members of council the mayor or elected officials. You've both been in this position. You know that it can be a challenge and and and working with multiple different people on on that may have different varying opinions. I guess what would we look for in the next police chief what skills what competency should we look for in the next police chief to better work or to work effectively with members of council and elected officials. I think I think it all starts with communication. What we keep hearing from everybody that we get feedback from is people want somebody who's a good listener, somebody who is inclusive and also who acts upon that that information. I think the essence of community policing is the partnerships, building that trust and legitimacy by listening and you listen to a breadth of people who can give you those expectations. Also think that you have to be willing to change your mind. So if you're going to if you're going to be in a relationship with anyone developing that relationship means listening to both sides and also trusting the professionals the experts to do the job. And if the research is proof is brought before that the council and the city leaders for things that are absolutely necessary in order to make the Durham safe then the chief can the chief will have to have those communication skills those negotiation skills, the ability to listen. Also the, the compassion for the job and for getting the officers the tools they need to be able to do the job. I was extremely fortunate and my eight years as police chief had a council that was incredibly supportive, and it definitely made my job easier and it makes a huge difference to have supportive council. Thank you. I know a few things have come up in the chat and also from our previous session about sort of implementing structural change, sort of culture change or structural change within the police department. Again, they're morale issues there are some other issues, as well as, you know, focusing on community policing and some other issues that may require a culture shift shift of thought within the police department. Again, you know, thinking about that we're going to need to find a new police chief who has these skills. What skills would lend themselves to trying to implement big structural change within the department. Again, Jim starts with communication and ultimately credibility. You're going to look for people have a track record of doing just that. The benefit for Durham and Durham PD the way I see it is, you have a chief in Chief Davis who's outgoing who's laid the foundation there. There's some opportunities to build upon it, but it's always a two way street. I mean, the chief of police does not set the budget. They make budgetary requests that have to be approved by the elected so it has to be a partnership. We have to establish that trust with the elected leadership. And through the through the town manager to make sure everybody's on the same page and they prioritize given priority to the needs of the police officers who are doing the work. So you look for people who've proven themselves in those areas of culture change who've made those changes in organizations where they are currently or they have been in the past. And you look for people who match that skill set. And also looking for someone who doesn't rely on the way we've always done things you need someone that's innovative. That's willing to take calculated risk. And also willing to get the community input because again us say that we think we know what the community wants but unless we get out there and ask them what they want. And giving them make the completely different than what they feel like they need or want in order to make their community safer so the community engagement on the willingness to involve your outside city leaders your community members and other people in city government to look at what kinds of changes need to be put in place and then get that feedback from everyone. Great. Thank you. I know there was a comment that came in about utilizing data gathering. So, just my own experience and trying to find and, you know, working with folks on employment and HR related recruitment issues. The world is just that much more data heavy every job has a certain level of looking at data interpreting data, and police is no different if anything it's probably on the cutting edge of some of these things. What, what skill sets would you look for in a police chief who, you know, is forward thinking and looking at the data being able to interpret the data. Again, it's not an easy skill set to find. But you know, I guess how have you seen that change the police force over the last few years and what makes a good police chief when it comes to adapting those those new methods. I will say that having the data driven approaches to dealing with crime and crime in your community is you have to have the data in order to make good decisions about where you're going to place your resources because resources are limited. And one of the one way to do that also is to have that crime information constantly updating so it's active it's current information, and it's also accessible to the officers not something they have to wait for to come on shift so someone that understands the technology that is needed in order for the officers the ones that are out there boots on the ground for them to get that information so they can apply their resources and their preventive policing in the appropriate places. And to put. Yeah, the only thing I'll add is, that's been a transformation over the last decade in particular top more where you're having to be data driven, and the beauty of developmental associates in the process that that we run is we actually tap into that we ask you around being data driven and how you utilize that have in the past, and then we create situations in the process be it an interview, or at the assessment skills evaluation portion so that is critical. And it's a skill that we look to measure and be as objective as possible so that we know whoever selected has that skill set, because it's absolutely necessary to have it to to lead a police organization nowadays. Okay, I'm gonna. I know we're waiting for Dr Strauss to come on board and to give us an update or an overview if you will about exactly how they run one of these searches. But I know Chief Putney just sort of mentioned a little bit so I wanted to flesh that out a little bit while we wait for Dr. Dr Strauss to join us. The process that we have worked with and again we've we've worked with developmental associates on several different positions throughout executive leadership here at the city of Durham. They do a very exhaustive and this is part of this. They do an exhaustive process to find out what core competencies are needed for that job. And right now, as I said this is part of it where they engage with the community, they engage with key stakeholders throughout the city. Not only residents but also managers within the city executive leaders within the within the city management and the department itself to try and gather as much feedback as they can. All that data comes together and is synthesized by developmental associates who create a job posting and they create exercises or assessment center that they use when reviewing and screening for the final candidates. So, as they post a position, it gets posted out to various different national websites that are specific. I know that there are several police international. I think order of police chiefs website that we will, I'm sure that developmental associates will be posting on and several others across the United States, candidates will apply and meet will have to obviously meet the minimum qualifications for the position. Each candidate is reviewed and applications are sort of ordered or ranked and presented probably the top 10 or 15. Usually it's about 15 candidates that are presented to the executive team here at the city. That list is pared down. And again I don't want to step on Dr Strauss's toes here but I'm, as I said, somewhat familiar with this process. That short list is then reviewed again. And there are a series of screenings I think phone screenings and some some background checking background screenings that are done. And at the end, the final candidates are put through an assessment center which is a series of exercises that are specific to the competencies that are needed for the job. As an example for this job and I know when we were bringing on chief Davis, there were, there was a mock press interview or mock press conference. There were a written assessment. There was a mock presentation to counsel or to the mayor. So these are exercises that are done by every finalist candidate. And they are reviewed and screened by peers. So oftentimes there are other chiefs of police, high level executive folks that are managing different cities different communities different municipalities that are local and even sometimes out of the state that come here and review these competencies of each candidate. So this is a little bit about, and as I said, Chief Putney mentioned a little bit about the process I just wanted to fill in a little bit more. This is that when, when Dr Strauss gets on to the zoom call I will defer to him to try and flesh that out even a little bit more. In the meantime, while we wait for him I do again want to say again, if indeed you are interested in providing feedback, please put your name in the chat feature of this call, and we can then call on you. Once we call your name, you will be allowed to to talk and provide your feedback we will have to ask you to unmute yourself when we do that. And then another comment that came in I want to read this one out. Chief Davis provided Durham residents with all the qualities that we needed in police leadership. And it, you know it said that we will be hard to recruit replacement, until we address some of the other underlying issues. You know, I guess what what is, what are your thoughts on, you know whether or not, in my mind, you know the next chief of police will have to work on these underlying issues and in particular again working collaboratively with not only the community but also with with the city council and it and it's elected officials. I have a lot of thoughts about that I, I am curious as to whether, you know, every, every new chief of police has issues that they have to deal with when coming into any new new position and working with any new department. What are what are your thoughts on that. Do you want to go first you want me to go. Okay, so I, one of the things that I would say is that, again, without, but if the police chief doesn't have the tools necessary to do the job then it's going to be very difficult to provide the community the services that they want. And again having people that are trained in all different aspects of policing and not just enforcement, or not just running to 911 calls but looking at the person that comes into the department will have to analyze what's what has happened in the past, look at the history and then again engage all the stakeholders to find out what they would like to see to make to improve the situations in Durham you have to involve your business owners you have to involve your the downtown community as much so as you do the businesses throughout the area, your, your community leaders are extremely important so if you don't get that feedback from every aspect of the community and the, and inside the organization. It will be difficult for the chief to come in and truly analyze what what has been done and what needs to be done. And again, how, how do they move forward to get that support. And I know one of the. I'm sorry. Again, support is internally, but to get that support developing that trust is essential and if someone comes from outside there's there's going to be a time period where they're going to have to develop that trust. And again that will be done by the actions of the chief and how the chief interaction engages others and what the chief does to move the department forward to put me. We don't have much to add I think that was a pretty comprehensive answer I just think it all comes down to coming into a new organization you have to look listen and feel you truly understand the culture. And then you expand that stakeholder group and you get those expectations and products. But let's let's be honest as I said before, the chief's going to have to be a partner and here she has to partner with the elected leadership of that that city, or the best efforts from the best possible chief aren't going to aren't going to move very far they're going to stall so it's a partnership establishing that partnership with trust. So if you're doing what you say you're going to do, I'm making sure you have a broad cross section of those who've given you that feedback and those expectations and priorities, and then building that partnership mature elected leadership to make those things great. Thank you. There was a question that came in about into the chat about the performance histories of the candidates that are in the final stage of review and selection for these processes. And I just wanted to again give a little bit of more detail. There is an extensive background check and social media checks and press clippings check and and what have you. So I know that the question was, essentially how do we make sure that we're not, you know, potentially hiring a police chief that may have a record of abusing authority or, or, you know, questionable activities within the department. All that, at least for in all the, all the, all the, the recruit and search searches that developmental associates has done for us in the past, they have done this for every director and I, they will do it for the next chief of police final candidates. One thing I did want to mention briefly is that because it came up in our session yesterday was about whether or not the, the, the community will be able to meet the finalist candidates prior to the final selection. I know this was done with chief Davis there were the top two candidates were brought into Durham. They were at city hall and there was an open forum where both candidates, both of the top candidates were able to give a presentation. I believe there was a meet and greet people could meet and talk briefly with each candidate before the final decision was made. See the, the other question that came up from yesterday was a little bit about the, the growth in Durham, and how a police chief might have to adjust to this or what sort of changes or what sort of abilities might a police chief need. When the community is growing so fast. I know things like the Apple and Google jobs that are that are coming into this into the town but you know Durham's been on a very upward mobility and trajectory for 20 years I think it's it's just been a great place to live and work, and it has been growing every year. How does the police chief manage growth in such a such an environment. Hopefully that's a good problem to have. It shows that you have a growing and a vibrant community a city where people want to come to. And I think what the chief has to do is continue to make that city as such. And by that I mean, continue to leave the charge in fighting crime, continue to leave the charge to engage community members so that they have that sense of safety. A lot of proactive chiefs are going to be out there establishing the foot patrols and doing so with them in the business district, having those close ties to business owners, so that they can be responsive to those needs and, and to address crime issues that will destroy a city quickly before they even begin to really take root. As you, as you know, across the entire country crime has been rising over the last couple of years and you got to have an innovative chief who comes in with the plan and the strategy and a proven track record of fighting crime, while engaging the community, because it can't be one or the other has to be both. I would just add that one of the things that again have you have a Durham is a beautiful city and you have many, many opportunities for people the downtown. It's, it's incredible how much it has grown. But people want to live in a community where they feel safe and having focusing on that feeling of safety. Again, if people do not, if they are safe, if they don't feel safe, then that is that impacts where they live or play where they want their children to go to school so that is extremely important and sometimes when you're only using your resources to address the crime that's already occurring. It lets that makes people that are not having crimes going on around them feel like they are not that they're not being involved they're not what matters to them doesn't matter to the police so again engaging all areas of the community and not just the places that are having the most issues. And their police are not the only resource there's so many other resources that the city of Durham has that the community has such as your you have your parks and recreation department that can help with things in the community, especially with the youth you have your faith based communities you have. YMCA Boys and Girls Club there are so many other organizations out there that want to and do work with the police to help address issues that are going on in your organization so building those partnerships with not just police resources but other other resources that are out there that can help to keep Durham safe. I'm so glad you mentioned things like faith based organizations and the community. That was another comment that we got just recently just as you were saying that it came into me about building relationships with those groups. I know that is part of this job and and you know trying to make sure that the community feels safe and again working with these organizations throughout the community is key. What what what do you see is the most important part of building those relationships with those organizations in the community. It starts with that first pillar in the 21st century policing, which is around building the trust and legitimacy. Again, not to be the dead horse starts with genuine communication, building true relationships and partnerships with people, and being able to do what you say you're going to do. It starts with those relationships and building that trust so that it's more of a team effort. It's not just the police doing that work alone. I was going to just add that again, the trust and legitimacy is not just internals in the community and when our if our officers do something that is not not acceptable. We need to we need to deal with that and we need to make sure that people internally and externally know that what the expectations are for the officers in the department what the expectations are for them in the community, and that they hold people accountable to those expectations. So really that's happy building a team that responds to the Durham community, rather than just expecting the police department to be that up that that save all for everything so setting those standards, holding people accountable making sure that people understand what the expectations are. And when they do not meet those expectations that you deal with those situations. Again, publicly we can't necessarily tell people what happens in the situation where an officer did not behave appropriately but that the chief has to be able to deal with those issues to make the community feel like they, it matters that the police officers are being held accountable. Thank you and I agree 100% trust is such an important thing. And as chief button he said I don't want to keep keep hounding on this but again, trust trust trust needs to be first and foremost, and you mentioned pat about transparency. And, you know, obviously, it's a tough job because there are some things that cannot be made public and there are some things that can. How do they go hand in hand in your opinion, the difference between trust and transparency. And being as transparent as we can possibly be a say an informed community is a safer community. So, as law enforcement, we should give the community as much information as we possibly can, building those relationships with the media where the media is not really getting out the bad news but they're getting out the good news of the things that are going on in the Durham police department and in the city of Durham. That's extremely important, but again being transparent being as transparent as you can possibly be and in there are some things that for the good of the community, you can, you can get permission to put information out there so if we do not tell them the story then they're going to create their own story if we do not tell them what's going on so I think it's extremely important to have that that means of communicating with your community in a vast open way, so that again they know what the story is and but I want to just say one thing it's not just building the relate building trust with the chief. It's also building trust with everyone in the police department that when the police officer goes to a community that community trust and believes that that officer is going to respond in an appropriate way because they know that that person is being held accountable by the standards of the Durham police department. I'm incurred did you have any. Not much to add I mean really. I think trust is because you're establishing the foundations of a relationship or partnership based on open and honest dialogue communication of the office, the chief will, you know take a beating sometimes in a controversial issue because there's a potentiality that comes along with the investigation, you can expose witnesses that you're getting information from there are a lot of reasons that you can't get the whole story immediately. And I don't know that some of these cop shows do us a service by resolving everything within an hour. But the expectation is that when I tell you something is based on fact is based on evidence, and I should there should be updates timely updates when more information comes in available that I can share with you. But there has to be a mutual trust where you're going to trust me to get it right. I'd rather be right than fast, and the chief's going to have to set expectations to building that trust but also letting people know that there. It's going to be open and honest with you. I can't be as transparent as you want because there are some confidential pieces of information that I just can't share because it might because it might prejudice a jury, or hinder my ability to fully investigate a case, but telling those specific facts that should be public knowledge is an expectation that is not unreasonable. To the past point, it comes with trust. That's your foundation. And if I'm going to be honest with you, people know it goes both ways. So when there is a time that you can share everything I expect you to do so. It's timely as possible. So trust and legitimacy. I think I mean, you said transparency, they all build upon each other. They're all interconnected. You're muted, Jim. Sorry about that. Technical difficulties. Well, we're at the hour mark. I do want to restate a few things. Number one, we have some more time. So if indeed somebody is interested in providing their feedback in a verbal way, please put your name in the chat feature and we will call on you. We need to un-mic and we can hear you and address any feedback or questions that you may have. The second thing that I do want to say, and again re-emphasize to everybody, we have a survey where you can provide your feedback. That is on the city of Durham's website. And the link to that to that page is going to be also put in the chat. We have a voicemail where you can call and leave whatever information or feedback you want. That phone number is 9195604273. We have had these two feedback sessions. I know they have been, or we have been promoting them through our social media pages and also on local news, I believe. They have been advertised out there. So I want to make sure that anybody on that is interested in providing this feedback and wants to take the mic. Again, if you're interested, please put your name in the chat and we will call on you. One of the comments that did come in was to give a little bit more information about the assessment centers and their process. The assessment centers, and again, I am an employee of the city of Durham, not with developmental associates, but again, I have been, not only have I been working with developmental associates on various different searches that they've done for the city, but also I've been a member of some of their assessments. I've been a facilitator or somebody who views and provides feedback on their candidates. So the information that I was talking about earlier, as far as the sorting and selecting of candidates is fairly similar to almost to lots of different jobs the way that they're posted and screened for currently, which is a job posting goes out on various social media pages, websites throughout the city that are very industry specific and candidates apply directly to the developmental associates organization who conduct a series of screenings. It could be a screening just based on their application. It could be a phone screen. Oftentimes they will do all of the above review the application and their qualifications, a phone screen that is very detailed. And for these positions, the, the, the information and the questions that are asked are very detailed only at that point, do they sort of get to a short list of candidates at which point the city manager and some other executives here at the city of Durham would review those top list, particularly 1015 candidates typically at which point it is, it is shortened down to a secondary list. At that point social media checks are done background brief background checks are done not. They would look to see if indeed there was any newspaper initiatives or articles or any bad press, particularly on a particular candidate. They would do usually some reference checks at that point, at which point the assessment center would have would be organized and typically four or five candidates would make it through to the assessment center. And they are independent or individualized practice sessions or exercises is probably the better word that each candidate must go through, and they are judged by a small panel to two or three peers that provide a scoring or a ranking for those candidates as they perform each one of these an exercise, as an example would be a mock press briefing or press, press interview or a mock council meeting. It might be a staff meeting. How would the new chief work with their staff their senior leadership within the police department when a an urgent an urgent issue an urgent emergency were to come up. So these are some of the sort of exercises that each one of the candidates would go through. They are again graded and screened by peers. And all that information is is blinded. So, each group does not know how all the other groups are performing and are scoring their candidates. All that information is then sealed and I know given straight to the good folks at developmental associate to then review it all, and would present a final scoring and recommendation to the executive team and the city manager here at the city of Durham. So, hopefully that gives a little bit more detail about what our process is and what the process at developmental associates is. But I wanted to, again, give that information. Are there any other bits of information about the process itself. Chief Bayes more or chief put me that you had wanted to add. I would like to say that just a little bit of a little bit of correction with what you put out. We do not present just the top candidates to the city leaders. We'll, we'll go through all the applications and we will break them down into those who meet the minimum qualifications, those who do not meet the qualifications and all then those who meet preferred qualifications, and then we'll present those that do meet the qualifications and exceed the qualifications will present all of those to the hiring team and just want to stress that we do not make the hiring decisions along the way we keep the city. We keep them informed we they're involved in the in the process. And we, but we do not make that final decision one. Another thing that we include with and I just again want to say one small thing. We say that the assessors a group of a team of assessors for each of the exercise. They, but they don't necessarily judge the person what they do is assess the person's abilities based on the information that we receive from these feedback sessions we will take all of this information, and we will develop behaviors that to bring out behaviors that you all are looking for in your next police sheet. So we the assessors will actually take that information they receive in those exercises, and then then assess them against the behaviors that Durham says that they're looking for in their next police sheet. We can, we do not do a background investigation until we are, we can't do a full background investigation until we give a conditional job offer. But what we do is as much public information as we can find on them and we do have some resources to be able to get public information that not everyone has access to. We could, but they just, they don't necessarily. So it is extremely important that we look for all that information as we're moving forward in the process. We do not want to bring someone we don't want to present a candidate to Durham that does have issues that could make them not successful in the process. We do all of that before. The other thing that we do during that process, when we once we narrow it down with the hiring team to those 15 candidates for the telephone interview. We also administer the emotional intelligence instrument, the inventory, which is extremely important so that the emotional intelligence has proven to be much more important in leadership than the knowledge skills and abilities of law enforcement because those people skills or soft skills are extremely important in order to be successful. It measures things like your ability to to be adaptable to be flexible to have to empathize with others to understand yourself and to understand how others are reacting to things that you do so really being it really does involve the emotions and how emotionally intelligent a person is probably all have sat in a room where you say something and or someone says something and everybody in the room is like, oh my God, what did he just say or did she just say and they have no clue they said something inappropriate so making sure that they're self aware and that they're aware of how they impact other people is extremely important so we will take the emotional intelligence instrument and the results from that and then combine that with the results of the assessment center exercises and we will use that again to present that information to the city leaders hiring team to make sure that they understand that this is what their emotional intelligence says is what their performance said and see how they interweave with with each other a very important part of the process. I just wanted to. There are a couple of comments that have come in about the work that in particular that you both have been doing in soliciting and collecting feedback from the law enforcement officers that the good folks in our police department. I know there have been some feedback sessions. There are feedback sessions that developmental associates has done with other executives levels within within the city of Durham. So we are, you know, actively and developmental associates is actively soliciting feedback from from those folks within the department. Could you tell us a little bit about how they have gone so far. We have interact we've actually already met with the executive command staff the command staff with captain the lieutenants we've met with the sergeants in the corpus and today we've met with the officers. Tomorrow we're going to meet with the civilian employees. So it's important that we get information and we feedback from all areas in the department as well and all ranks in the department. And I will tell you that there's people in the department have tremendous support for Chief Davis and are sad to see her leaving. They do like they love working at the Durham Police Department but one of the things that they say strongly is that there's not enough staffing they are exhausted not only mentally they're physically exhausted they're emotionally exhausted. And it's difficult for them with when they're responding to 911 calls for service that's all they're basically having the time to do that they're not having the they don't have the resources to go out and truly engage with the community and build those community relationships. That will then build trust with the community. If the if the community doesn't see us there before something bad happens, then when we just show up when something bad happens is it's not a good time to expect the community to cooperate with us so it really is about partnerships with the community and they lack the time to do that right now because of their lack of resources in the department. And Chief Putney, what were your thoughts or, you know, perceptions of how the feedback sessions went with the department of the police department staff. I tell you what, what has been most interesting is their priorities, what they were running their next chief aligned very, very well with what we're hearing from all of the parties. They work somebody who can come in and listen and and strategize and and move forward on a lot of the foundation that Chief Davis has laid for the organization. They want to make sure they're getting good people and good people only. So they'd rather be short than have people sacrifice the integrity of Durham PD, but they are consistently vocalizing that they're, they're tired. There's a lot of work that's been done over the last year, plus and it's having an impact. We talked a lot about or heard a lot about officer wellness and the need for a work life balance. We heard a lot about being called in on your time off so it makes for a long week, but mostly what we heard more just conversations around the enthusiasm that they have for the profession that's a calling tool. It was impressive. It's always inspiring to hear that and Durham PD did not disappoint in that area. Great. Thank you. So we are coming up on the last say, 10 or 12 minutes of this feedback session. Again, want to emphasize if indeed you wish to speak please put your name in the chat feature and we will call on you. There are some comments that have come in. One quick clarification I do want to make is that I know that at the end of the process when developmental associates has screened and reviewed and had the assessment centers. They present the scores and information and feedback session to the executive team. It is the ultimately the city manager but in coordination with and with the feedback from multiple different different groups organizations members of the of the executive team here who would make that final decision. Again, so developmental associates does give sort of a synopsis of how everything went, but it is ultimately the the decision of the city manager. And again in coordination with with getting feedback from others within the within the organization other key stakeholders. Another question which again keeps kind of coming up. Just one quick review is about that that feeling of support from the from the city council and from the mayor. Again, it, it, it has been addressed earlier in this call or in this feedback session. But I know that it is, you know, clearly it's on folks minds here as the as it keeps coming up in the chat about how this man this new chief of police would best work with the city council and the elected officials. Yes, again, simply without working together as partners as a team. Again, whatever chief you may get can struggle without having the support of the priorities needed for the community and the police department. And that job, even more difficult so establishing that relationship, working as a team, elected officials, obviously the city manager's office, the executives in the police department all the way down to the office who are doing the work and the civilians who support them and doing so. Everybody needs to feel supported but they also need to feel that they're rallying around the same priorities that makes Durham safe and makes that continue to make that area the place that people want to come live, raise the police, recreate. And to do so, there's got to be some cohesiveness there's got to be us overcoming some of the politics and get to what we're providing for a community that needs as most in a time that's critically essential. And it's got to be a team concept it can't be just dumping on the police and expecting them to do all things that others want you got to work as a team. Mr. Donald one question I think that it came up yesterday but I'm not sure if we talked about it today yet. Will the community have an opportunity to to have interaction with the final game with the final candidates in the process. The answer is yes. So I know that in the previous chief search we did have an open forum it was right at City Hall, where the top two candidates came in, and we're able to present a little bit about themselves introduce themselves and there was a meet and greet session. I know that we are planning on doing something very similar I don't know exactly, especially with the pandemic and all I don't always sort of seems to depend on what's going on but I know that that is absolutely something that we would like to do. The, the other thing that did come up in the chat and I want to address this very very quickly is that in addition to developmental associates being involved in these feedback sessions that we're conducting, you know that we conducted yesterday and today, and the surveys that we have, they are going to be sent all the feedback that we get from the surveys, they're going to be sent all the feedback that we get on our voicemail system that we've set up here at City Hall, but they have also been meeting with not only the members of the police department themselves and conducting feedback sessions, but also with members of the council members, the city manager, the deputy city managers other. They would call them key stakeholders, people who are say within the, the, the, the, the, the offices throughout the throughout the area such as the sheriff's office the fire department 911. There are a lots of different people who within the within the within Durham who have some input and we develop an associates has been working with them to collect that feedback from those, the folks who hopefully know exactly the best qualities in any police chief. So, there has been a lot of feedback and a lot of collection at this stage in the process by development associates. There's, if there aren't any more comments or feedback, I know our time is just about up. And I want to give it one last shot. If there's anybody that wishes to provide feedback, you can of course, put your name in the chat and we can call on you quickly. If you go to our website, and we will put that website or their web link again in the chat feature, you can go to that web link. There are two surveys one is in English, one is in Spanish, and you can provide your feedback there, or there is a telephone number that we have put together. It's a voicemail system at city hall that we can collect information and your feedback that telephone number is 919-560-4273. That number again 919-560-4273. Are there any other thoughts or comments from from anyone. Mr. Don, I would like to just I know you said earlier at the very beginning of the process, but I just want to remind everyone this is not a quick process we are very committed to doing this right and bring in the right person the right right candidates to Durham for the hiring team to make that hiring decision. So, we are look it likely will not be until at least October before we get to a point where we're making that that presentation to the leaders in Durham, and then the public meeting that made that would be something that probably would not take place until later so I don't want you to all be waiting for that that interaction with the candidates before then. And then again if someone if it's an external candidate that external candidate may need to give a notice if they're working where the job they're working at now and they have to relocate to Durham that can take longer so I just want you to know that it may be we don't we don't see you all having a new police chief within the next two months or so I just want to make sure everyone's aware of that. Great. Thank you. Thank you for again I know it always seems like it takes a long time and it does. But you know a good process does take a while. The other very quick piece of feedback or comment that I saw was about de escalation as far as the city or the police chief is concerned and I don't I assume that the person that has put that comment isn't talking necessarily about how the chief would de escalate, but in probably their, their commitment to working on on, I guess providing training, making it part of the culture about de escalating within the police department. I just wanted to make sure that that was that was said. If there are no other sort of comments or questions. I am going to end this call so very quickly I want to thank everybody. I want to thank our friends, both chief base more and chief put me from developmental associates. And so thank you very much for taking the time and spending, giving us your valuable insights into what works and what may not work for the next chief of police here at Durham. We're happy to have you in our process and working with developmental associates on trying to find the best. And I thank you very much for your time. I also want to say, again, if you have feedback and you didn't weren't able to provide it using this avenue. There are other avenues and I would strongly recommend that you utilize those. Again, there's a survey on the website, and there is a phone number, both those both that website and the phone number are in the chat. Thank you all very much. Good afternoon and be safe out there. Thank you.