 Now we're back we're live. This is Think Tech Hawaii. It's a Monday at 1pm. I'm Jay Fiedel, and we have the honor of the returning, the returning sojourner, a Martin Disbangs professor of architecture at US UH School of architecture. And he spent the last several months in Germany at various architecture offices and returned only recently a few days ago. And learned the hard way that not all the vaccine cards work to get back to Hawaii. But he's here with us now to tell the story. So welcome to the show Martin. It's nice to see you. And it's nice to see you here. Thank you Jay for having me although I we all wish the circumstances would be slightly different right. This is also sort of my the second part of my honeymoon with my with our exotic escapism expert Suzanne that we know from human human architecture see she has a degree in tourism and management and business right so here we are in our very flamboyant second half of the honeymoon and the Waikiki Grand in the Grand Hotel in Waikiki. So anyways, we have prepared some slides get the first slide up. And no doubt Jay this is serious right there's no no making fun of it. So these are things from a couple days ago that Suzanne pulled up from the beginning of last week. So now we get tragically famous here after having, you know, kept it all pretty down. Now we're one of the, you know, states here with with cases rising I took the picture at the bottom left that the, well the person who brought us food from the ABC store took that picture here, you know, that Queens is filled up. This was national news Martin, this was national news. Yeah, it was a national TV channels, the problem in Hawaii. Yeah, exactly. So, second slide please. Not to get this wrong, I'm not an expert in this first skin, you know skin doctor or any kind of doctor. I'm also not an expert in the second skins the kind of clothing and textile we wrap around us but very quickly. You know, this is just to give you a little bit of what we do in Europe. This is what we call a surgical mask. Medical mask. Okay now it's obviously the green screen is protecting it but it says on the back. The moment we can see it medical face mask, but then the most preferred is what we call the FFP to mask. These are these here FFP to, and these have been figured out by the experts right over there to be the most efficient and effective. I'm a little sort of, you know, disturbed here when I see well meant you know funny a lower pattern printed face mask of any kind of fabric that don't seem to comply with what's common sense not just amongst the experts right but the general public who gets themselves informed by the experts right. Well the people who wear masks below their nose. Yeah, these exactly a lot of that. Yeah, so next slide. So, as you said Jay it's good to be back but we had a hell good of a time both professionally in my teaching, while everyone was locked down in the past, you know, lots of months. I was able to get out you know fully masked and show them stuff around in the world. I just made you and your colleagues award us with a show of the year award so both in think tech and and you age we actually thought it was a better fit to be out there and be an ambassador, but it was time to come back or provost you know called all the troops so me a loyal soldier I did that and then I did with best intent what you have to do before you leave, inform yourself so I went to travel.y.gov and try to use the first two buttons here to upload my covert vaccine I have been fully vaccinated in Germany way get into details later, and I also had get myself tested just before you know taking off I try to upload that both on this website and next slide. This was the response where it says not approve not trust a testing partner. Martin then you know not wanting to give up as we know him next slide, I found the next button that shows other documents uploads that one I uploaded what I had which we will look at later and next slide. That's what it gave me doesn't that look promising Jay it's a QR code by Hawaii right Martin was ready to travel there we go I flew with United Airlines by the way which is my trusted airline. Next slide. So let's look at the stuff that Martin had. So this is how this is how this exotic stuff looks from this weird place called Europe and Euro fins is one of the to the right I did some research. So this is the most trusted PC artists that you can get over there and Euro science suspicious but guess what these guys there's a website called Europe fins us.com so they're known in the US they even have, you know, facilities there, and there as it says here the world leader in testing for life, 55,000 employees 900 laboratories 15 countries. Next slide. Something other exotic. This is what you only know as your CDC card or the VAMS cards. So this is here the the European equivalent the international certificate of vaccination. Now, are the World Health Organization, and us, you know, having been ending up here in the grand hotel and why kick he having nothing else to do but doing research. We ended up at the US director of the CDC the Center for Disease Control. And guess what he had been on leave for that, and he had worked for who the World Health Organization. So he had to get to the big guy and said hey you work for who issued us this CDC card Vans and of course we couldn't get him, you know, on the phone. So next slide so what's inside this past what's so suspicious about it. Okay, this is German but you can figure you know there's date, and then there's the vaccination and then there's the signature of the doctor who basically gave it to you So, but then there's something suspicious come here and 80 what the hell is that next slide will tell us. So this is something else that these suspicious Europeans have come up with it's a, as it says sorry it's upside down you can fold that so it's the EU European Union is digital covert vaccination certificate. When I got the shots in a little town from a countryside doctor, I went to a cafe. And next to the cafe was a pharmacy, and I'll turn to the pharmacist with my yellow CDC Vans pass and says, can you please sign me up for the digital pass and he said sure just sit down down outside have a coffee, and I will serve it to you once I have done it, calling service right and he came out and he gave us the digital pass with a QR code. Next slide. Oh, stay with this one for a little down there it basically says this suspicious come in already again but down there. The second line is says biotech manufacturing companies on next slide. You go to Wikipedia, and you find that this stuff here was developed by the German and bio technology company biotech. And they collaborated with Pfizer and American company at the very bottom right they lift the secret of this suspicious name because this community is their trade name. It's used by the way at the very top just as of today the FDA approved the first COVID-19 vaccine and guess which one that is that collaborative one of Americans and Germans I by the way hold both citizens chips luckily and kindly. So we collaborated on that but then my American side seem to have forgotten about that for that moment of trying to let me back in. Next slide. Sometimes the whole, the hope is the little people because you know we both know and you try to help me Jay thanks for that. But all the big guys up there were kind of a little clueless about what to do but there was this nurse at this institution which is the university health services at my QH Manoa, where I try to stay fit and really don't have a personal family doctor shame on me they take a care of me. And they basically said we have a lot of international students who come with the same documentation so no problem I transcribe. I know, even though it has a suspicious name, it's basically COVID Pfizer so they added this to my immunization records, which we see here. So I cannot not talk about architecture and health right so this is from a show to so do and I did what we were talking about you age and it's you know, roots and where it's going. And this is the building where this, you know, brave nurse has performed this right it's a it's an easy breezy early 60s building that's pretty healthy. So no doubt that this nurse, you know, took the sort of brave healthy move to basically said, Oh, I can approve that I know you know I'm educated enough. Next slide. Another good very promising news is this person here from the Department of Health here in Hawaii in Honolulu, who basically said you guys she looked at all the records we have just gone through. And she came to the conclusion you guys actually have more proof of evidence of vaccination than most people I have seen. And that being from someone working right in the middle of the Department of Health is surely something that I like to, you know, show to people whenever I'm going to be questioned about my vaccination status. Next slide. And in which building does she work in this building that we know from baritania right. This is a mid century building that pretty much is has a breeze so lay as we like to call it so it tries to keep people cool inside and their heads cool. And they can maybe then make cool decisions as you know against all odds basically saying hey, common sense and doing some research which is not doesn't take rocket science, you know, can make us figure out that some people who have not been officially accepted and re welcome because by the way a certain countries and cultures probably rightly so even the federal government hasn't been welcoming back right and we don't want to get into which they are but the Schengen area which Europe and Germany belongs to is not one of them right. But these people some little people are able to make exceptions to the rule. If they look at the situation in a more detailed way. So next slide. Okay, we just by the way that this looks familiar to you. You have done a great movie with think tech about the relationship of climate change and covert. And we like to pick up on that one because we're sitting here save but you know, there was another hurricane supposed to come and hit us this past weekend right. And there was Henry on the East Coast and still is right and luckily, he wasn't that bad as he was predicted, but it's only a question of when the next one is going to come and not if right. So all these things you know this sounds like a very personal thing and you know is Martin allowed to sneak back in easily or not. That's a much bigger picture and that gets to what's the future for us on our most paradisical islands right. How do we, how are we going to be less vulnerable for things like that for for hit being by climate change or by covert and things like that, only if we can reinvent ourselves. If we're not default back to past and outdated practices, but for example like projects like this here which you had been doing a show on with George case and that you continue to do great ones movies, and his team members which is primitive a free that tries to make a building that makes us independent again that you know we would, we were not depending on on other people from the somewhere else in the world coming leaving their money here and then leaving again, and in the meanwhile depleting our resources right projects like this are aiming for it to make us self sufficient and self sustained again so we wouldn't need anyone anymore but then we want people like Hawaiians, as to my understanding have always been welcoming and curious as the solo and Kali Akina as one of them confirm us right. They wanted the best of all worlds on their most remote island right so they're inviting that so we want to go back to that obviously not go to the beach, and to the, to the, to the fetch Holly. So, here and now in the 21st century reconnecting to the essence of that way of life, basically coming up with projects they're not invasive they're not imported from the western world but truly Hawaiian next slide, and how that would look is how we ended up on this picture here where all the invasive hermetic Howard Hughes and Kamehameha school, the microwaves would be taken over by nature again and become ruins. And instead of them we have these new creations and creatures called primitive that arise. And, you know, you're, you're doing something there on the screenshot that we all tell us in our host meetings that we just had one not to do scratching our heads but this was probably reasonable to do about this point here so why won't we want to do that. Last slide now, because we need to, while having been away and not being able to do our primary honeymoon on our Polynesian, you know, paradise in Hawaii. The substitute was as this article from flux magazine calls it Europe's Hawaii which is Madera and into Madera. We could just, you know, sneak in with every other documentation we've been showing you not even that they just recognize the PCR test by your friends. And in we were, and maybe on a not much time left but a little bit. You were mentioning France. Okay, and we were telepathically Suzanne just found this one here, you know, non you visitors to France can get a health pass to enter social venues that's just us today from the New York Times. We need to get there right because there's we're endangered of course like everyone else in the world by this mean disease, no doubt on that. We're more endangered than most people in the world by our isolation, and we should watch out that it's not an isolation on top of being geographically isolated we watch out that it doesn't become a mindset isolation right. So we need to reopen, maybe not in a sense going back to past practices and just busy business uncritically. We need to reopen and instead of recalibrating our minds towards a new future that's deeply tracing back to the Hawaiian practice it but innovating them. That's my monologue and please chip in for the last couple minutes to. Yeah, your reference to France. I saw in one of my various newspapers was a photograph of a French police woman in a cafe. And then there was a woman in the cafe reading or drinking a glass of wine or both. The French police woman was challenging her. Have you been vaccinated because there is a vaccination mandate in France. And the photograph just depicted that the the patron of the of the woman at the table was holding her cell phone up with the QR code. And the French policeman was reading the QR code, and thus going to a database somewhere to see whether you know the customer was in the database, it was, it was really impressive in terms of the technology. And I don't think we have that here, but I also don't think it's rocket science, as you said, and I think we could have that here. And so the woman the woman drinking the wine she wasn't particularly enamored with this process but she was part of it she tolerated it, and that's the way it is in France you know it's a, it's a democracy and not everybody's going to be happy with it. But enough people are happy with it so that it works. And my question to you is, why don't we do that here. Why don't we do it in Hawaii, why don't we do it all over the country. It's simple isn't it the QR code it's even fun. It allows for a centralized database to be created very easily. And then you send out the QR code to everyone who's been vaccinated so they can prove it up in an incredible way. Yeah, why can't we do that everywhere. What would you support that Martin. Absolutely. And again, bring back Eric please slide 10, because that is that thing that we're lobbying for here right that is this European digital covert vaccination certification that does exactly that job and again I the story I told you was so, you know, almost too cute to be true that right after having actually my parents got their got their shot which they got the good American stuff right Johnson and Johnson, you know, that one time shot. And so right after they got their shot we walked over to that small town marketplace again pharmacy next to the cafe. The pharmacist was, we actually went to CVC here you know my trusted pharmacy going along with my HMS a who were basically also you know trying to help wherever they were able to. But you should have seen people staring at me at the pharmacy here as if I would be an alien and I'm not any more legally my status used to be Lee alien but now I'm American citizen. I'm American so I think. And again I think my after all this sort of ordeal and this sort of you know, crazy voyage of having been on the phone, you know 24 seven almost since being stuck in quarantine my hope is with the little people just like with the architecture proposing. This is not for the rich people they don't need us and we don't need them. The future and also the biggest challenge is with the little people but there's also where the hope is because again, a nurse from the University of Hawaii health services. And by the way both were ladies, just so you know, ladies are, you know known to have more empathy, right, and care more as guys have to admit that. So they were just saying hey you know I'm not saying here I'm playing to the rule and this is you know what I, you know what I'm supposed to do and these are the laws this is what travel Hawaii keeps telling us. They keep repeating like an answering machine. Oh you have not been vaccinated in the US. So I'm sending them, you know, both approved from the US health services that had transcribed. So I said now it is American right, because that's a state organization, after all, the University of Hawaii, and now the Department of Health. Now it's been transcribed now it is American. They don't want to believe that they just have their rules right and they want to play to their rules so what you need is is brave citizens who are thinking and open to things and are committed to protect us yes first and foremost and take any risk, not ever take any risk. But if it makes sense, then you know, basically prevent the other big risk that we are basically closing ourselves off because Europeans might be fed up with this and saying okay I'm going to the European Hawaii, which is not going to be an era, because that's easy and going to Hawaii. No, that I end up in quarantine for 10 days, I don't want that. And until we have what we're loving for invented another economy, you know, including the architecture with proposing for a while right and until then we got to watch out and we don't get back to into a lockdown and lose our main revenue which again would basically you know that's that's my paycheck right it comes from tourist dollars indirectly right. And so you're out of the woods now but you had to spend 10 days in quarantine, the state of Hawaii never actually accepted your quarantine proof. No, no, I mean, I should say the parts of the state of Hawaii that matter to me with just the Department of Health can't be any higher institution and an epidemiologist, you know who has asked her colleagues as you can read on that on that slide there. Yes, and that's what what matters the most to me that slide 14 area bring that back one more time, but the ones who put me in a quarantine you know travel Hawaii they have not, you know, that's really regrettable. And on the individual level, if people didn't have enough trust in you even after you, you know, were able to demonstrate you've been vaccinated and you were a legitimate applicant. It's a little bit of trouble but the other the other part of it is and you touched on this is that it affects our reputation. It affects our ability to retain the reputation as a tourist destination, which is sensitive and smart, sort of like Singapore you know, you know use your head have common sense so my question to you is this. You've been through, you know, the gauntlet here, and you've touched on a number of agencies you talked to a lot of people, you spent 24 by seven on the phone, trying to connect. And clearly it didn't work. Clearly the state did not service you to use the word of the pharmacist in the small town, the state did not service you. They pushed you away. But all of that 10 days of trying. What is your recommendation specifically on how we need to reform this system. What aside from being smarter and, you know, more more tolerant and more. What's the word I'm looking for more tolerant of travelers. And change mechanically, administratively bureaucratically to make this work better. Yeah, before I answer that one more dimension Jay, although you know out of quarantine now, but since you know I also serve you and us on think take Hawaii as a citizen citizen journalists. Right. I need to go out and about you want me to do that. You know, Wednesday at 10am is is human human architecture every week. There's a new high rise residential high rise in Waikiki. Brooks Field is the developer. I need to go out and find these people knock on their doors right so if I knock on their door, what do they want to see probably a CDC pass. I still can present this to them because I don't have it and I was told very high up as you know, well why don't you get a booster shot, because then we have record of vaccination from here, where we performed it. Well wait a minute you know there has to be a certain period of time between your second vaccination of Pfizer at least and your booster shot which is I'm not mistaken seven to eight months it's not been that long. And then there is an ethical question right there's many people in the world who don't even have their first shot right so shouldn't they go first. This is also a medical question Martin you have to be immune immune compromised right now to get a booster shot. Exactly. So you'd have to tell them a long story. Exactly song and dance type of story to get that shot. Yeah, this is the Department of Health that told you this. Well, even higher up right we've both seen the email and we have, you know, conversations with that's really too bad. It is sort of, it is so my, my question my answer to your question. Again, I'm not a politician. I'm not a medical person. I'm just a simple guy citizen, a critical citizen, and I would just say, after this experience I can only say let the little people take charge and you know if this woman here who was, you know, writing that and the nurse at the university health centers, let these people be department heads. I'm sorry. That's the only thing I can tell you because these people just show they're worth their money. And they're able to look above and beyond, you know, the regulations that they have put in place and look at every, you know, case individually and then make a make a responsible decision. You know, it all comes down to, as you called it common sense, and people who have the guts and the balls and just the backbone to, to do that. That's what we need we need we need critical constructively critical citizens here. Marco, I mean, rather Martin, I just, I want to add one more point is that this reveals not only problems in the agencies that you dealt with, I guess the Department of Health mostly. But it but it also reveals that Hawaii has more than its fair share of bureaucracy of hard bureaucracy. And we really have to get over that. And us and them this has been revealed that other government functions here over the time of COVID, not just, you know, this immigration function. And I'm troubled by what happened to you but I, I also see it as part of a larger problem. And if we want to find lessons here. We should visit those lessons on all agencies, which include frontline bureaucrats that just say no. It needs reform, in my opinion. Absolutely. And so what would you, what would you leave with, you know, our viewing audience what would you, what would you leave with people in some of the circumstance, coming from Germany or else elsewhere in Europe. On what Hawaii means these days, in terms of a tourist destination to someone who is, who has had the vaccine. I would say again, hopefully, you know, the Biden administration. And that depends on how we deal with it in Germany with, you know, all the precautions and the right mask for using hopefully cases will be going down. And so hopefully then, first of all, all these people from the world can visit us again. I mean that's that needs to happen first right because I'm, I'm sort of a crash test dummy right and it got crushed, right. Because, you know, none other European dummies are supposed to get in so when that happens. At that point, we need to have all major homework and obviously, you know, it always takes to and I should have I blame myself and have to apologize to my brides that I haven't done more more research, because there was after all a startup I guess I have to say who found sort of testing centers in my, in my, in my hometown, in my second adopted hometown of Munich and Germany that perform PCR tests that obeyed to the ones that the US requires but that is after the fact I found this out which obviously you know made us even more frustrated because we should have found out to begin with. So to us Europeans I say do more and more homework. And on our side here, you know, let's look at as you said what how the French do it right if the French can do it, you know, we can do it here. So, really, really smart and all that leads to the notion that we have not just a pandemic we have an endemic. Yeah, and that this is going to be with us for years to come and it's going to be a global issue. Yeah, my own view and there are a lot of people who agree with me I don't know if you do but I think we're going to have a national passport. There should be uniform state to state all around the country. There should be one database. There should be one QR code or other way to connect with that database, and furthermore Martin, here's the point. It's going to be a global problem. It's going to be increasingly a global problem. Why can't we have this on a global basis. Why can't the United Nations established a series of passports or, or one global passport in order to prove up. It's not that hard. It's not rocket science. How do you feel about that possibility. Absolutely. And again, I think the kind of the voyage we went through and all the research should have, you know, proven. We're almost there. Right. We were technically, if the director of the US CDC has worked for the organization that issues all the Europeans, the vaccination passport, and he's back to work for his native us right. Come on, we're there. We just have to ratify we just have to get it done. But obviously we have to get it done fast right because again, I mean, Jay, look outside. I mean it's it's to me like, if you go back to the first slide one more second and and the cases and the charts right. We're way higher with a curve than we were when we shot down everything here right and we had no tourism anymore and on top of, and there are all the crisis is as you perfectly point out in the movies and elsewhere are intertwined and interconnected right because you know we heard the shutting down who do we hurt the most right at the lowest in the chain right the little people there we go again. And you know Hawaiian population make like 4% right, but what is there they're affected. You know percentage is 24% right. So, so there's a relationship without what we need to we need to we need to get back and so we need to do this fast because I think probably the next shutdown is is is right around the corner. And at that point you know we need to get back to reopening again faster than last time and use all the time you know learning from these brave nurses here and say you know how you know do trainings how did you come to the awareness of checking these documents from people from elsewhere in the world. We said it now the third time no rocket science, just just use common sense and and build it up from from bottom up almost and then top down, you know, let the, let the people be in charge and you know, yeah. I hope everybody's listening Martin. And a couple of things. First, welcome back. It's nice to see your smile and face here in the island still coming, so to speak. And the other is congratulations on your wedding and your marriage. However, however problematic it might have been to come back to Hawaii still congratulations. Call it a good test, Jane. Approve of marriage. Well put well put, and we will we will revisit these themes obviously in the realm of the build environment and human you know architecture tune in for that every Wednesday. 10am guys and girls. Martin this bang my hero Professor Martin this bang. Look for him tomorrow. Tomorrow is tomorrow or Wednesday Wednesday Wednesday on your main architecture. Thank you so much.