 My name is Gordon LeForge. I am with New America's Planetary Politics Initiative. I used to be an MPA also, so it's quite a pleasure to be back in Bull 16, not having to think about problem sets and homework requirements. So Planetary Politics is very excited to co-host this panel, alongside the School of Public and International Affairs and the Center for Policy Research on Energy and the Environment, as well as the members of our distinguished panel today from the Women of Color Advancing, Peace, Security and Conflict Transformation, which our panelists will talk more about as well. But the focus of our panel today is climate justice. And the heart of the climate challenge for the world is an issue of justice. In that the countries that are most, at least responsible for causing climate change are the ones who are the most impacted by it. So the same is true in the United States, where historically marginalized and discriminated communities often live on the front lines of environmental disruption, pollution, other harms, and at the same time have fewer resources to be able to adapt. So policymakers are aware of this. The Biden administration has made climate justice a priority in all the funding and the grants that it's putting out. However, there is still not, I think, an understanding that this really needs to be at the core of the issue. So we're very happy today to have our panel to discuss climate justice at home and abroad. We're very fortunate to have moderating Professor Elka Weber. She's Professor of Psychology and Public Affairs, and the Gerhard R. R. Andlinger Professor in Energy and the Environment at Princeton. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Elka, and thank you very much. Thanks so much, Gordon. And it's my pleasure to introduce our three panelists. After that, I will ask them some questions, and then let's turn it over to the audience for you to propose the questions you want to discuss. So let me start with Malika Glover. She is the Executive Director of WCAPS. And for the past 20 years, she's been addressing many areas of public health both domestically and globally, working for the Center for Disease Control, the World Health Organization, and several other academic institutions. Dr. Glover also has demonstrated records of accomplishments in management, having led task forces, working groups, and teams, implementing new initiatives and engaging in strategic planning. Malika holds a Doctor of Science degree from Harvard's Chan School of Public Health, a Master of Public Health from the University of Michigan School of Public Health, and a Bachelor of Science degree from Clark Atlanta University. Marsha Michelle is an analytic leader and from Solomis 15 plus years of experience in leading teams, managing very large budgets, we're talking $100 to $200 million, building and implementing programs that effectively respond to and prevent natural disasters, and advancing health, equity, food security, and nutrition amongst the most vulnerable. She's worked in West Africa, Latin America, and the Caribbean, and most recently South Asia. Ms. Michelle serves on the Board of the International Career Development Program, ICAP. She also volunteers as a mentor and liaison coordinator for WCAP, so that's why she's here today. She currently works as an independent consultant. In January 2022, she started a Presidential Leadership Scholarship, high-profile partnership program under the Presidential Centers of the Two Bushes, Clinton and Johnson, for leaders with a commitment to help help solve society's greatest challenges. Most recently, she was selected for the International Career Development Program, ICAP, a professional development leadership program for highly promising mid-career professionals in international affairs in the United States. Marsha holds a BA from William Jesuit University in West Virginia, and an MA from American University in Washington. Last but not least, Nandini Saxena. She's a quantitative political analyst, campaign strategist, and researcher based in New York. Her research and advocacy work from class engagements at UNICEF and Yale University have focused on evidence-based behavioral strategies, systems thinking, and human-centered design for positive social, environmental, and political initiatives. Nandini is an outreach and engagement coordinator for the Climate Change Working Group at WCAP. She holds a dual bachelor's degree in applied math and statistics with a concentration in international relations from Stony Brook and Harvard University. So thank you all for coming. Let me start with Malika. Can you tell us a little bit about WCAP? How did it come to be? What is it trying to accomplish? Thanks for having me, having all of us here. It is a pleasure to partner with you all for this very important discussion and very important topic. And I'll do my short elevator speech for WCAP. So WCAP started in 2017 by Ambassador Bonnie Jenkins. And fundamentally the vision of WCAP is to advance the leadership and professional development of women of color in the fields of international peace, security, and conflict transformation. And so the organization is a member-based organization and it's set up in a way that allows for a variety of discussions and topics in our working groups. We have several initiatives that are age-based but also a number of mentorship and pipeline programs to ensure that there is a network and training and really a safe space to have conversations with women of color about important topics such as this. So that's sort of my short version of what WCAP is. We really think of it as a community and a family and a space where we can continue to grow and increase the representation of women of color and peace and security and conflict transformation. There are about 2,000 numbers and we always invite others to join. You can join at any time. There's lots of things to be done. And anyone can join. It doesn't have to be just women of color. It doesn't have to be women. It could be men too. We welcome all of our allies. So maybe say a little bit to any of you who sort of know how and why WCAPs works on climate change and climate issues. Climate change is one of many critical issues that we're facing, not just in the U.S. but globally. It's critical to peace and security, to the work that we do, and all of us. It impacts all of us in this room and those overseas. As a person, as a humanitarian, who's worked overseas and worked with refugees and displaced populations, it's at the core heart of the work that I've done. And so yeah, it's critical. I definitely have found that climate change in particular transfers to different fields. It's not just within what we know as climate change. So it can transfer the healthcare, it can transfer women and peace building studies, women and gender studies, and it often goes at so many aspects that we wouldn't really see cream at and it also affects how we view ourselves united as the country in terms of media disinformation, political polarization, and so many aspects. So I feel like when WCAPs work on climate change, we do a service to update some people as well. And I would just add that I think in general, as part of our mission again, we feel like a global perspective is necessary in these spaces. And part of the conversation about justice is making sure that there's representation of those communities that are most effective, but do less damage. And so that's part of our goal to make sure that representation is there. You're very eloquent. You talked about why WCAPs is working on this issue. Can you say a little bit from your sort of day-to-day experience how you're doing it, what sort of projects you're involved in? Part of the work that I've been doing, the working group climate change, is educating others and also trying to get more people involved. We've done a series of panel discussions, for example, careers in climate change, right? Supporting students and other people who are interested in that type of career. And so it's one part of the work that we do with road papers, right? On climate change, whether it's in Mexico, whether it's the refugees in the range of refugees in Cox Bazaar. And so this is sort of one of the day-to-day things that we do, educating others, educating ourselves, and also sharing the information on how you can become more educated, how you can become part of the discussion. And so that's part of the day-to-day work that I do. A lot of times the climate change. So in addition, we've been trying to expand our horizons and also invite people to learn more about the inadequacy we face in terms of careers in climate change, which I feel like is not addressed usually. There's not enough exposure to what types of careers are available, how you could contribute with your skill sets, and also just this awareness of if you're in the public policy field or in a public or anybody who's underrepresented, how you find X, Y, Z opportunities. Can you really say with mobile health professional schools like Spia could help? So schools like Spia could help in terms of partnership. Definitely funneling this sort of initiative to build not only awareness, but to take the people who come from underrepresented backgrounds or anybody who wants to build exposure and just sit down and have this discussion about how would your skill sets be applicable? Where could you, you know, find something that's you are niche, which we often don't talk about, and it's usually like a very long-term counseling type of thing. So there's always a unique way to open doors. I would say sort of more broadly for WTACS, we seek funding for climate change projects. We have one that we are currently starting to work on and also partnering with other institutions, other programs, other groups. So one that in particular we are partnering with under Pacific Canary in Hawaii to do a documentary on climate change and climate justice in the Pacific Island. So that's just one example of some of the programs that we are sort of as a larger organization with the working groups and the various other working groups and also our chapters in the work that we're doing to focus on climate justice. Can you say a little bit more on funding? Where could it come from? Foundations support individual funders. So like Gates Foundation, the things like that. So a little more to foundations. We also have funding from other organizations who support mentoring programs and that's been that aspect of WTACS. We have a grant on climate work specifically that is the one that's funding our work on climate justice. So they come from a variety of places in terms of supporting just a general work with WTACS. And also a lot of foundations that are supporting work, you know, focus on DEI and things like that who want to increase representation of underrepresented communities and also limited in these cases. Maybe we could talk a little bit more about the connections between climate change but then also peace and security where he mentions that, you know, but then also sort of climate justice and inequity. And so how do you think all these topics put together and how can we sort of, you know, create better synergies between advancing all these different fronts? Yeah, I think there's numerous ways I think. So my background is the social epidemiologist. So sort of having conversations about the intersectionality of all of these things is something that I talk about and think about a lot. But I think fundamentally it affects peace and security because if we think about sort of COVID and the impacts of that and sort of what we saw in terms of the disparities, it's just another thing that stresses the community that already is economically stressed, socially stressed, politically stressed. And so you're asking that that community be able to bounce back and just absorb another stressor that is also a confidence stressor that impacts food security and other things that we already mentioned here. And so I think that it requires all various sectors to sort of come to the table and have conversations about how we, what we bring to the table, resources we bring to the table and how we can collectively have this conversation because I don't think it's any one sort of sector's responsibility to deal with it because it's political, it's social, it's economic, you know, there are a variety of things to do that. And I think fundamentally you're asking, you know, already vulnerable populations to just take on something else without the proper resources to handle it. I have sort of like believe them. I've noticed it's definitely a very, like a myriad of things altogether. So if we don't look, so one of the major things I've looked at is how much climate change affects peace and security in terms of the defense front. So in the defense front, they put, you know, competition for resources and like on the other side of issues that just come from one particular thing. So since it's a media problem and they all intersect with each other, things like media is information that's from the previous experiences or just a lack of support for having proper analytics to the right data. This would tie into how experiences like tie into all of these issues and kind of look at it in terms of the on effect. So it all falls down. So that's how it's based on the issues I get. When I was asked to talk on the panel, I immediately thought of the snow and flooding in California, right? It impacts everyone, but the people we don't talk enough about are farm workers, right? Because most of them are undocumented. They suffered extreme heat, drought, and now the flooding. They've lost everything, but because both of them are undocumented, they're not going to receive federal aid. So it doesn't just impact them, but it impacts the food that is being produced in the U.S. So when I think about justice, it's sort of where is justice in that part? And when it comes to peace and security, it's when I was thinking about the Arab Spring, right? There were a multitude of issues that impacted the Arab Spring, right? Democracy, human rights. And we don't talk about the economics, right? People were impacted. For example, Syria, before the war, they suffered from drought for a number of years. Over one million people left the countryside to move to the cities because they didn't have enough to eat. They were suffering. And the government never provided support for them. And so this aspect led part of it, right? To the situation that we have now. It wasn't one. It was a multitude of issues. And so this is where the complexity of climate change comes into play. And so we have to think about that element of peace and security where these issues with pressure and vulnerable populations, right? In places like the Sahel, when we talk about Malawi and Niger, birthing that, so people will continuously be in this place because of climate change. So you already touched on answers to my next question in so many ways. And it sounds a bit like Saudi's choice, but we can talk about who was the most vulnerable to climate change, maybe both nationally and internationally. And so bringing back some of the themes. I mean, it was one of all. We talked about refugees, displaced population. I think by 2015 we'll have more than 50 billion people displaced because of climate change. We talked about women, children. And also people who are handicapped, right? People like that who suffers from it. And I think about sort of in the U.S. sort of people in sort of black communities, people of color where we have a lot of sort of factories and industries, right? People in North Carolina have been fighting for so many years, fighting against the poultry and poly industry because of the impact on their communities, right? The feces are sprayed into the environment. And so they're fighting for a lot of justice in terms of their health, the well-being of their community and the environment. So these are the people who are most impacted and who are continuously being impacted by indigenous communities who rely on the land often. I mean, it has been included in, you know, the soil was being harvested and a number of other things and, of course, migrant populations. That's working. Yeah, so the U.N. environment has published that 8% of people displaced by climate change issues are women and they face various types of violence. So that's also some of the reasons we have to take that role. And then a lot of the communities that are involved in environmental justice also face the same issues that Marshall has. I mean, we can talk a little bit about the opportunities that you already sort of have been touching on, but maybe also the challenges of bringing together the sort of environmental justice and climate change and action on climate change. So maybe from your personal experience, talk a little bit about the challenges and the opportunities. From my perspective, which is, I guess, public health and policy, I think that some of the challenges are in sort of, you know, people being siloed. You know, people get protective about their space and, you know, their data. Maybe it was talking about data and, you know, what it is they're supposed to be an expert in. And they often don't want to make space for conversations for people to come into that space. I think on the political side, what I find some of these conversations, again, are siloed conversations, but also when the folks who are at the table are not represented of the communities that are being impacted, then some of that need to sort of, or some of that just innate understanding of what's going on in that connection and that desire to be helpful and to resource the conversation is absent any time. So I think that there are issues with not wanting to sort of cross-pollinate conversations. There are issues with lack of inclusivity, which of course leads out that sensitive, you know, that personal connection to why it's important. And so I find that sometimes you have to sort of figure out the different paths to having that conversation to get someone to understand what's important to have this discussion. But those are just a few of the challenges that I see and I think that increasing the impact of community organizations and as Manini was talking about, just, you know, the grassroots organizations and the communities that are actually trying to fight these issues, increasing their political power and their ability to really sort of be at the table and be, you know, a significant voice at the table would also be helpful too because of what is happening on the ground. So, you know, there's lots of people talking about it, but action is happening and they need to be part of those conversations. So, I think what she said about political power, it's a really important issue with the vast majority of our experience in campaign work. Another one problem that we faced was pushing agendas. We would often have a backlash from the conservative community. It was heavily dominated by the conservative community, which in itself is okay, but it didn't lead to, you know, discussions of this, like, voluntary movement of many people together to engage discussions even further. And then another issue that we would face in terms of the agendas would be what incentives and practices in New York that people got on the critical level and how you would, you know, shift the norms and shift whatever practices have been there previously that we would often face issues with. And another thing, a point that she tapped into was inclusivity of opinion and the data that would reflect that. So those were the main issues. I would say a lot of the issues is making sure that the people are most impacted or at the table. And also when it comes to response, responding to the impact of climate change, making sure that we're tackling where we're working closely with community organization and communities on the ground and providing faster relief to those who are impacted. Because we have all these laws or all these agencies, but making sure that our response is quickly faster to those who are impacted by it. And also I think the fight of the administration has been going ahead, but investing in infrastructures are aging that are breaking down data causing your floodings and natural disasters in some of these areas. So you're already searching very naturally towards solutions and actions. So let's talk about this a little more specifically in addition to sort of making initiatives crossroads and local and inclusivity. What other things could be done to distribute the burdens of climate change more equitably and to come up with solutions that increase not just our climate preparedness but also equity and justice and also other dimensions? That's a really good question and we have been thinking about the Prime Minister of our leaders who introduced the Bridgestown initiative that would sort of give options to lower countries to get lower interest rate on loans from some of the multinational agencies because sort of developing a developed nation like the U.S. can get it between 1% and 4%, right? But other countries or income countries their loans are at 14%. And these countries are suffering from multitudes excessive sort of natural disasters, right? Because I think we've done this after World War II, right? We're re-providing room for reconstruction the ability for other countries to rebuild and so it's sort of that same mentality and that same thinking to provide that option to low income countries who've been dealing with some of these issues and for the lowest emitting emissions emission countries to do so on a global level I think the Bridgestown initiative is something to really be thinking about and how you can get that going. I think it's got some attention but not a lot is being pushed right now. We'll answer in two parts. On a global level we're really the example of something to redistribute burdens and build more equity business focusing on frameworks and models so the global development rights is a very good example. I'm sorry, global. I just couldn't hear you. Global development rights. So how do the countries' pledges compare to each other? What kind of policies do they have that actually have tangible outcomes? You could see this in the pledges that they would make for the climate change agreement that happened in Paris. So that would be on the global scale and on the global scale something I noticed in my work personally is how do you advance different aspects of environmental interventions like health equity and the thing was over there was that especially because if there's no way to allocate and distribute an understanding of what aspects you would be answering in a way then it's kind of for various owners and again we've gone with that from our previous question. Yeah, I would just add responsible use of resources also equal reinforcement. I mean, you know, we you know, we get to a point where folks are like well, we have put, you know, models or whatever on the books to handle environmental justice or climate change but they're not equally enforced. And so there are things that go sort of unpunished in certain communities. So I think that we should also focus on decreasing the production or ceasing the production of hazardous waste that we can in making sure that at all levels of conversation of environmental justice there are persons from those communities present and not just some of them. State work environment and compensation and of course healthcare and making sure that we address public health we talk about sort of upstream approaches and so when it comes to climate justice it's already in swing and so you have to address what's happening at the beginning and also sort of the outcomes of the impacts of those things as well. So there needs to be a continuum of paradigms for which we can address all of this. So the interesting thing is like a list of sort of legal interventions but also financial instruments that also sort of norm change, right? So changing what is considered acceptable or not acceptable and changing awareness about different other ones. Can you say a little bit about sort of what WCAPS has been trying to do to advance on these different fronts and what has been more successful? I will talk about sort of just more broadly and our work group representatives talk about some specific things more broadly and as I mentioned before sort of our partnering with organizations where we can highlight some of these things where the co-local, you know, persons who are not necessarily thought of as experts are the experts because they're living it they're actually managing it they're addressing it they're coming up with solutions for their populations and their communities and so highlighting those women who are working in those spaces to ensure that their voices are actually added to what we've heard along with everyone else's and that we highlight women who are working in these spaces who break that different perspective and that intersectionality to the table at all levels and so more broadly from that perspective that is how WCAPS is trying to push this forward. So we're working through how to use the climate series of featuring different professionals with all the women who are contributing to climate in different ways and that led to adding different perspectives which I don't think is a very underrated thing normally we don't see how different perspectives can change the status quo compared to very old ideas not able to name it so the series of reviews I think were inside it's also very revelating and for somebody like me who's trying to split the whole political realm so that's a very big thing that we're working on I think our colleagues stated it all especially we focus on educating others and sharing the information on the work that we do So you work with policy makers at all different levels both nationally and internationally what kind of advice would you give those who are trying to make headway on climate change and on climate justice? Don't give up I know people sort of there's so many barriers and people sort of just get frustrated and they want to quit I would say don't do it alone you need support you need people who are in the fight with you and always incorporate rest that is like my theme from now on this year is trying to incorporate rest so take pauses and don't try to let people know what you're trying to do what you're trying to do and don't try to push through sometimes you need to take a step back and recalibrate and think if there's a different approach that maybe you need to take because you're kind of butting your head against somebody politically for example and trying to hear it sometimes you just have to come up with alternative strategies to like either throw them off battles or sort of just get it from a different angle and still end up with the same outcome that you were looking for but I would definitely say don't go alone don't give up and be mindful of your own justice and peace as well as you're fighting a good fight and infiltrate as many spaces as possible so that you can start shifting the voice and the thought and the norms and I think that's the only way to do it we can't just wait for people to die off depending on if it doesn't be heard and start to shift the dynamic and the thinking a little bit and that's a creative subversion yes well she said it was perfect absolutely as someone who's worked most of my career overseas I would say being open minded because sometimes we think when we're coming from the US or any western world that we have the solution and it's not always true the solution is there they may not have the funding to do the biggest innovative technologies I mean I've worked in Niger and they've been doing what is called dismount doing the lean season for when it rains they capture the water in the ground so they can continue planting I mean they don't have the funding to invest in some of the climate solutions and so being open minded that they have their own solutions they may not have the funding and so being open minded and also the struggles in terms of funding because as a humanitarian we didn't think there used to be sort of I would say crashes but between the development group and the humanitarian sort of the role is it to work in that space and now we're seeing well there is that collaboration it's not just the development issue it's a humanitarian issue it's all over issues so there is definitely strength in collaborating in coming together in bringing the short term with humanitarian relief and sort of including the development side for the longer term solutions lies in these other camps absolutely in this notion humanitarian aid has fallen one person we're not human and so again I think we really just need to shift the norms on just being respectful to our hominids and they all deserve fresh air clean water what about other agents stakeholders corporations troop between stop the reading absolutely and hope people accountable for what they do especially if they're funding these factories or whatever it is investment in technologies that would help us reduce pollution to do things better I think that's an option an example I think also investing in grassroots community options that don't require a lot of technology maybe everything is not highly technical maybe there are very simple traditional solutions or things that just might require a little extra assistance or to get everybody on board so I think cooperation needs to help with that too and then maybe lastly NGOs universities researchers, scientists, social scientists what should they be doing this having conversations and discussions and partnering and giving each other support and feeding our pipeline to infiltrating these spaces with universities of course and yeah I would definitely say more funding is required for more thorough deeper research a lot of people and something in my experience I face is that when we come from underrepresented communities we often face a struggle of acquiring education finding opportunities so the brain power and the different dynamic perspectives that somebody from a background struggle would come with to change the status quo is often just not available so I would say accessibility is number one that would definitely in the academia and research unfortunately will be most afternoon I'm going to dive up like this conversation sharing the information on all platforms making sure it's available to everyone especially those communities who are impacted as well making sure that those who are not at the table are invited participate so maybe now we can open the floor to members of the audience we have two microphones so those of you who want to ask a question move to one of the microphones and maybe say who you are and then ask your questions to our panelists Hi I'm Ann Marie Slaughter I'm the CEO of New American a former dean here at Spia and I'm thrilled to see this panel and it's exactly many more of these conversations in schools like this one I want to ask how you approach the situations that we and I include myself in this we encounter all the time in DC and what kind of very practical advice you would give in a situation in which so you have the top national security officials around you there's the president there's Jake Sullivan there's John Finer there's Tony Blinken I hope you notice a pattern here and they are going to all talk your talk but look at who they are and you know they are spending 80% of their time on Ukraine or on China and that's generous so but they've written a national security strategy and I really think it is a historic document actually written by Tom Wright who is a graduate here that says global problems change, pandemics, food insecurity water insecurity, energy shortages are just as important as those political issues and yet they are spending 80 plus percent of their time how, you can't just go in and tell them they are wrong I've tried to it doesn't work very well how do you tailor your message in that situation and then additionally so now you're Avril Haines maybe you're going to be Michelle Flournoy at some point or Lloyd Austin probably experiences this as well you've only gotten to where you are because you played that game if you had been if you had taken the line that you've taken many of us take you wouldn't be in those positions so how do you adapt to the existing power structure and I get you don't give up and take plenty of rest but really for people in this room that's what it comes down to how do you push without alienating or basically getting yourself excluded which is what de facto happens what a tough question I think I've stayed away from Washington for a long time and I thought I would be most effective being overseas and working on humanitarian issues like refugees and IDPs but then again we have to continue with the policy work the policy work is as important as the work that we do on the ground right so we have to continue pushing and so that's why I think it's really important to invest in groups like WCAPS or groups that are fighting for climate change for all of these issues that continue to not be at the top I've worked on humanitarian issues and it's always a fight writing the strategies making sure because all of us were fighting for our region I was fighting for the Verringes to have money to provide food it's hard to compete with a situation like Ukraine we're never going to win that battle because it's Russia and all these things but I think we have to continue to find ways to push Washington I mean in 2021 I guess the Biden administration put together an order on sort of elevating the issue of climate change which is great right but we need more concrete actions and so I think that's where smaller groups like WCAPS or NGOs think things and policy makers working in the policy arena need to work more on sort of continuing to push to elevate the issues but also bringing the issues of groups like black communities in North Carolina who are fighting the hog industry and fighting concrete action I mean I definitely don't have the answer and I think it's really really hard but we need hope right we need hope to continue to push on these issues so I have hope but it's hard it's really really hard to to see not see these issues elevated as much but we have to continue doing the work that it requires so that is a very loaded question but I think one of the most important ones because in all my experiences they were small it's and I think it's the right critical part of the discussion which we don't have but one of the reasons why I love WCAPS and rely on my heart is the fact that they gave somebody who's like me a person who doesn't have that much representation in the program to staff or us and you know take all the skills that are promised from my life and work on applying whether it be the soft skills or the hard skills it doesn't really matter I do think groups like this push whether the energy changes it requires for a very large power structure I like the ones you just mentioned it's like a lot of the groups that are able to act in terms of the change would be to implement more persuasion techniques I think that is very underestimated and you know see would be the strength and unity plus taking rest like whatever you said so all together it's like you know little steps each way but it will you know change the rhythm completely and I would say voice I mean we have to continue to have a voice and so this changing of the media you know media is important which is why the focus is so much in one place because that's all the media is talking about so I think the media is important and then also you know the alternative strategies I think you have to figure out how to bring this to the doorstep of the people that we need to sort of address their thinking in public health for example where you know we couldn't get attention to cancer or disease until it impacted somebody's son in Congress you know then it's like okay you know cancer is important now because it's actually in my house so I think that that whole sort of media approach making sure our voice is heard and keeping that energy going but also sort of these alternative strategies of figuring out how to say this is going to show your doorstep at some point and so it would be better if you address this now and have some resources you know flowing in that direction so if you're hearing out a path to address that that seems to sort of push the political envelope a little bit sometimes and it's slow going I think that's the other thing I think it requires a little patience but I think the more that we sort of invest in changing the look and appearance and the voice of the folks in the conversation the more we continue to have these conversations and show you know in numbers I think we'll start to see that that change it may take some time Mary do you want to add your wisdom on how to do it Oh yeah good question Joy being on this side of the podium I get to ask the question not the others I mean I think I do think persuasion not back up a second it's human nature to focus on what is closest to us we all do that and ultimately though as a government responsibility not to do you are representing all the people or that's what you should be doing but I think it is important to go in assuming that in fact there is sort of positive intent that's part of persuasion right if you go in and assume it's a brick wall they really don't care and they're hypocrites and they say this thing but they don't mean it it goes to these are young men young white men not so young in some cases but in others who are socialized in a particular way to make it in foreign policy it's guns and bombs one of my most formative moments was at Harvard in the 80s watching Condi Wright's talk arms control at Sam Huntington's seminar so you want to talk about a white male environment there were very few women and she's certainly the only person of color to make it she had to be completely fluent in nuclear weapons speak that happens for everyone but you assume yes if you can make the point this is in your interest this is in your political interest this is in your direct interest as a human being you won't get all the way there but you shouldn't discount it we're so used to throwing insults at one another in DC the value of persuasion I think is right persistence and then what I work on is not just getting representatives to the table but a critical mass that's true of my own organization if you have one woman, two women a couple people of color no one's going to be the person who sticks their neck out and gets ostracized if you can get to 35% suddenly things really start to change and so figuring out what is your coalition how do you bring those folks into the room and who are your allies particularly on the hill now in lots of offices in the government not at the very top but lower you've got allies I would absolutely stress what Malika said that it rests persistence but recognizing it's really more work I really do take off my hat to Bonnie Jenkins, the ambassador back in government wonderfully good for creating thank you as a question from the audience awesome life thank you also thank you so much for the presentation and the discussion and those we did brought this panel here my name is Devin Brookins I'm a lecturer here at STF and I teach in the international development and urban space and recently I've gotten much more into climate related work so I have two questions the first one sort of linking the domestic to the global I think just the way that we frame talking about climate change is very different in most spaces most of my work is in sub-Saharan Africa and so we're talking about the impacts of climate change increasing resilience, adaptation mitigation etc but in the domestic space the conversation is slightly different it's much more focused on mitigation and carbon and to EJ conversation environmental justice and so I'm very curious to think about how can you link the domestic and international narratives so what kind of messaging do you use to show that these are related conversations and that you have justice implications globally so one obviously is the migration issue that was brought up but there's so many other ways that sort of marginalized populations find themselves having justice concerns globally so for instance my work is in Ghana in informal settlements in the capital city and other cities in the US land regions so these people are facing certain struggles because of climate change they cannot access any kind of mediation because they're not recognized as community communities so there are marginalized populations everywhere how do we sort of link these narratives not just because it's there's a sort of intellectual desire to do it because the sort of need or impetus is to stoke and link for afterwards the ways to increase voices to help link people across faces and that sort of leads to very local grassroots to the much larger the Greens as a subset of the big green system so to call it the Audubon Sierra cream piece etc there's huge power there so how do we link these very local struggles with global struggles and then I just have a question just to push a little bit about justice and issue distribution so I actually did a talk this week about environmental justice in Canada in New Jersey and I'm from Canada County I grew up in the suburbs there and in doing the research for an ongoing research project I started to find out the waste systems and how they're connected so the waste is produced in more higher income areas like my neighborhood where he used Cherry Hill where Jersey actually gets taken to Camden where to process and so there's an issue of distribution not just of the cost but also the benefits so when we're talking about justice how do we think about the psych politics of distribution because at some point we have to have a conversation about removing some of the burden from these communities and then where does it go and what should be mentioned in strategy is absolutely part of that conversation but there's also an immediate question of how can we look at this is a very multi-stallar issue from the city, government, county state up to the federal level so how would you think about that? Thank you. There's three of us I'm going to let all of us talk I feel like I'm going to take a little bit of both of those things so there's an activist that was asked in an interview how would she define freedom and her reply was that she knew more about what freedom was than what it was and so I would say the same thing for justice I know more about what justice is not than what I think this world has demonstrated that it is and so from that perspective to answer that first portion of your question I think that's part of the strategy to keep this going and keep it divided by demonstrating that there's not a difference between what's happening domestically and internationally because it's inextricably tied together it's all minority communities, marginalized communities communities have been traditionally not recognized whatever that means they're all people I don't know how to not recognize humans but I think that's a political strategy that needs to be addressed and I think that's part of keeping the resources effort as well and not really moving forward in that space that's my personal opinion about why it's hard to have those discussions you want to call it environmental justice in the U.S. and climate change when it's international it's all within conversation at fundamentally at base but again then somebody claims to be an expert in this space versus this space and so I think it's all part of why we need to just stop that and I'll figure out how to get to the table together and come up with solutions instead of just talking about what's going on I think the other piece about what you're saying I think that still ties into that other question about how we didn't have a conversation about distribution because I think that we have to sort of change our mindset to rethink the fact that how do these things get inequitable in the first place how do we make decisions that it should be in Camden versus another county versus you know another community that was you know a higher social economic status or whatever the case may be I'm sure we can all have people representing from those groups that can come to the table and have a conversation about where does it make sense to put this really and if it doesn't really make sense that there's nowhere safe to put it because it's going to be disruptive to everybody no matter what your social economic status is then we need another alternative to this problem and so again that's where we're having conversations about more upstream solutions versus let's just move from this neighborhood to this neighborhood and this neighborhood or to this island you know we've done nuclear testing on islands and those people are still dealing and their children and their grandchildren they're still dealing and we sort of you know put tapes on it by giving them money sort of making half citizens in all kinds of strange things so again I think those are just my two comments I think that we need to shift the conversation and not fill the need to make it put different titles on it and just have a more inclusive discussion and also you know again if there's no right answer to where we need to move it then we need to have a different conversation from that perspective as well I might not have addressed all of that but that's my little answer so similarly to what she's saying on a global level I definitely think that since all humans are the same the innovative strategies approaches something that takes a humanistic aspect into it is the reason why global and domestic policy work in German like solutions and all that is interlinked to each other and then on the local level the same like socio-economic disparity issue is something I saw in my campaign where finding the middle ground was possibly like the only solution we had and that is a very tough thing to do because it requires you bring people to the table and then to really effectively address what the issues are, why does the inequality exist to begin with so it's like again the myriad of problems that those in my domino like I keep rephrasing so yeah they're all very complex but it's all interpoint I think for a long time we thought were the exception like certain problems overseas didn't impact us while it was happening in a lot of lower income countries recently I've read an article in the New York Times talking about climate refugees people from California moving to other places like Minnesota to escape the wildfires right and they were talking about this family who moved their families moved and now have a great life in Minnesota they've bought properties because it was so cheap in this dying town in Minnesota and things like that and it was interesting to sort of refer to them as refugees right because they voluntarily moved they left a situation that was getting more complicated and I thought of Katrina in 2005 right there were over a thousand deaths and people were just forced to leave because they couldn't go back um and so I think when you start really thinking about these issues right it's like gentrification right there's no money to invest in poor communities and suddenly gentrification happens and we're building property buses or you know happening new routes and things like that and so finding solutions to things like this require intentionality right that minority um of ethnic groups are not the dumping ground for toxic ways um I think and when we think that climate change impacts all of us not just a few some of us might have more resources to deal with it right to move um to buy new technologies but I think um forcing change requires intentionality and investing for us to do things differently because it's easy right we go to um a smaller community they don't have the resources they don't have the media attention um and so we just do it and their communities are fighting it for a long time and so for me climate change impacts all of us um I think here there's been a real focus on the environmental justice because for a long time that's what we've done we've dumped it into black communities and things like that um and so thinking about different ways of doing things investing in innovation and technology so that these communities are not the dumping ground and also making sure that we're elevating their voices right because there's not the media attention bringing those issues to the forefront to policy makers to make sure it changes I think a great book that I've read that I've read part of that that perspective is Dumping in Dixie it's really really good um this last name is is I think referred as to the father of environmental justice yes um and sort of really really good book and I would say shifting norms you were talking about sort of thought norms is it really appropriate to it's called the community that had to move because of welfare as refugees I think there's a lot of political norms that continue this notion um and just keep it going and support it and I think also one of the issues with this where do we move it there's also this notion that somebody's got to lose in this situation and I think that also keeps the balance shifted you know inappropriately in the in the direction of always you know having these problems in minority communities because the other communities are certainly not going to raise their hands to lose so I think that if we sort of shift also our thinking in these discussions where there's a lot of sort of this American notion of keeping things in because of how America was created that's a huge shift that needs to happen and I think until we do that we're going to continue to look at these things I think from the wrong lens um because we're coming from a place of scarcity and I don't want to lose and I can't be at the bottom and I don't want to be that group you know I don't want them replacing us so I think all of those conversations are going to continue to land us back in the same spot until we can until we shift the lens that we're having these off these conversations from I'll see how all of us another quick question Thank you all for being here thank you for sharing your wisdom and brilliance I have a quick question can you recall a really particularly dynamic or indicative like community mobilization or effort to address climate change that really like envelopes like community like a really localized level and I say that because I have an MPP student here studying policy and when I think about my journey here I've been thinking about how natural hair movements in the United States have culminated with like the Crown Act so like there was this community swell of like black women saying I refuse to damage my hair I'm proud of my sense of self and how that through like cultural production and like technology has led to this sort of like policy initiative to ensure that black women have given me power within the workplace I'm thinking like is there something like that in the climate space that's been like dynamic and innovative and like captured people so that folks like me who are community centered can like reference thank you there's a documentary on PBS that I can think about they it was the sort of the stroke belt I think that they did a documentary on and I think this gentleman who wrote that book that Marcia was talking about was also part of that documentary as well and I think if you just google climate justice and PBS special or something you'll find it but they talked about sort of innovative ways to address some of these issues but it was mainly focused on innovative ways for the community to deal with it but also how to address it politically so for example when you're talking about sort of like the drought and sort of the erosion of the soil and things like that then there are indigenous communities that then also made it a point to bring back seeds that will survive in those in that new sort of soil and that new sort of like water restricted space and those sort of things and so they are selling these seeds to the community and sharing them and giving them away so that they can continue to go across and feed themselves so I think that it's two-sided it's how do we continue to sort of help ourselves and also sort of how do we spot these things so we can continue to make political change and put this in front of somebody who can address the fact that this factory is polluting our neighborhood, it's creating erosion, it's flooding our communities which means people don't have housing, they have to leave all kinds of things have to happen but I thought that that it was like a 5 or 6 sort of video series and I thought it was kind of cool to kind of talk about both aspects of that. So this is clearly a conversation that needs to be continued and will be continued, unfortunately not right now, maybe about half an hour so I want to thank our panel and then also for New America and for SIPRI and SPIA sponsoring this event so in the audience thank you