 Alright, I want to thank everyone for coming up today, the irony of how difficult it was to get here is not lost on me. Hopefully you will also be able to celebrate some of the difficult journey that you were able to successfully accomplish to get up to this room. My name is Emma Jane Wespy. I'll talk a little bit more about my experience with Drupal and who I am a bit later in the presentation, but just as a warning to start, this presentation does contain the use of the word of the F word. So if you're easily offended, please do brace yourself now. It's probably not the F word that you're expecting though. My bold claim is that I think the backdrop fork, that's your F word, was good for our community. I think that backdrop offers a clear mission statement and is forcing us to clarify our own products mission. When I was first putting together my bold claim, I didn't know that Jen and Nate wouldn't be able to make it to this year's DrupalCon. They're celebrating a family event right now, which is fantastic and that's where they should be. So unfortunately, you won't be able to discuss this with them this week, but there is my bold claim. So in this presentation, what we're going to do is a couple of parts, the discussion part will be cut down just because we started a bit late for the escalator adventure, but we're going to start with how and why to be selfish in a free or open source, free and open source project and why I think it's really, really important to be selfish. Then we're going to talk about the danger of not having a clear mission statement and then we'll open it up for discussion. It was originally intended to have more discussion, but as I said, we are starting a bit late today. If you do have comments that you want to make, although I generally encourage heckling, this is a conversation that I think should be captured and so I encourage you to come up to the microphone. I would like to try and hold in depth heckling to the end of the presentation because the longer this stretches out, the last time we have for conversation at the end. I want to start out with a bit of a story. The first time I gave this presentation was down in New Zealand at Drupal Camp, Drupal South, sorry, in February of this year and on the plane on the way over, I watched the Hobbit, the new version of the movie and one of the flight attendants, Ben, came by and jokingly, well, it was all, it wasn't jokingly, but asked me what I was watching and I jokingly responded that I was doing some research going to New Zealand, watching the Hobbit, yada-yada. As the film unfolded, I realized that I was actually doing more research on what it means to be part of a community and how it feels to be an outsider or an insider and what the importance was of being aware of what's important to you. Now I've read the Hobbit I was in, you know, when I was in grade five, I was in a school play, I was Gandalf, I think, I don't know, or one of the dwarves, no, I was a dwarf. I made Gandalf staff, that's what it was. But my memory of the Hobbit is more to do with the movie version, so you'll have to bear with me as I butcher the actual story as I recount this information. During the movie toward the beginning, we've got the scene where Bilbo is at home and everything has its place and every place has its thing and he's surrounded by his heritage essentially. He's got his grandmother's this and his father's that and it's all sort of collected and put into very, very specific places. They're really important to him and the cleanliness and the orderliness is super important to him and that all of a sudden the doorbell rings and the dwarves start invading. And he doesn't really know why they're there, but he knows that his home is getting disrupted. And there's the scene, again, relying on the movie version where the dwarves are beginning the clean-up process and the, I'm sorry, I don't know all of their names, you'll have to shout out who it is that I'm referring to. The dwarves start throwing dishes around and they're doing the clean-up and you don't really know what's going on because you're seeing this from Bilbo's perspective. You're seeing the excitement and the joy and the fun that they're having, but you're also kind of wondering what's happening to your home and at one point one of the dwarves who's washing the dishes asks if he can use something to clean up and the response that Bilbo gives back is it's not a dishcloth, it's a doily. So who was that? Come on. Someone has to know which dwarf that was. Okay. So the food is gone by the end of the night and the clean-up happens and Bilbo walks into the kitchen and all of the dishes are cleaned and stacked and nothing is actually broken and the next morning the dwarves are all gone and all Bilbo really knows is that he has no food left, but everything appears to be back in its own place on the surface and I think that this story is very similar to our Drupal 7 to Drupal 8 experience. If you install Drupal 8 today, it looks like a clean house. It looks very similar to what we had in Drupal 7, but all of the food is missing. All of the things that we came to know, love, whatever the word is that you want to say about Drupal, under the hood the meat is gone. So one of the important things to note is that Bilbo chooses adventure. He doesn't stay at home. He decides to go on this journey with the dwarves, although at the time he thinks he's just going on an adventure. He doesn't really understand why he's leaving. He just knows that it's what he wants to do. So he leaves the comforts at home. He leaves the doilies. He leaves all of the objects and the artifacts that he's come to know and love and heads out. I think that over the course of our time with Drupal, there's always been that moment of decision of should I stay with what I know or should I head out for adventure. And I came to realize as I watched this movie and sort of realized that I was doing more research than I had meant to do as I had sort of jokingly said to Ben, I thought it was about the scenery. Ultimately, humans want to connect with people who believe in what they believe in. And at the beginning of his adventure, Bilbo doesn't believe in anything. He just knows that he's headed out for something. And that why part is critical to the success of a mission. The ability to connect with someone at a why level is the passion. It's the gut instinct that we have. It's it's also the part that makes us willing to work for the Drupal project for free. Maybe we've got an employer who sponsors our time, but then they're also willing to believe in the cause. There's there's something about the underlying sensation that makes us feel good about our participation. The next step up, shall we say, or step away is the how part. So we start with the why. We start with that gut instinct and then we move out. And the how, if you're thinking in a business sense, is your value proposition. It's your processes. It's normally where companies begin to market themselves. They don't start with a gut instinct. They start with their value prop or their USP, their unique selling proposition. That's the how ring. The next ring out again is the what. And this is what you can buy the product or the when you click on Amazon, the thing that you can actually tangibly touch the product you can buy. If you are familiar with Simon Sinek, you probably recognized the Golden Circle. I highly recommend. He's written a book based on the 20 minute TED talk. Spend 20 minutes of your time. Watch the video. The short URL, you can click on it if you want. I've given you the one that won't automatically start. So we don't need to wait for 20 minutes to watch the presentation. But it's, for me, a really important distinction. And it's something that I personally have really been struggling with over the last couple of years, trying to figure out why I would want to stay in the Drupal community and what is my connection to the code. And I think that the why part is sometimes missing for Drupal. For Bilbo, why is why his reason for being his reason for staying involved in the quest is home? There's a point, again, I'll give the movie version. There's a point where he says to the dwarves, you don't belong anywhere. And then over the next couple of scenes, he comes to realize you don't belong anywhere and I have a home. So what I can help you with is to help you give back or give you back, get you back your home. This thing that I truly passionately love that you don't have. And that becomes the reason that Bilbo is able to continue with the adventure instead of heading home. Because there were so many points along his adventure up to that point where he just felt disconnected. He didn't, that didn't make sense to him. He didn't really feel like this was his adventure to stick with. My why is to understand, transform, and remove obstacles so that people can attain a state of flow. I crave that ability to just lose myself in whatever I'm doing. I do it through craft in terms of making garments. I do it in terms of beekeeping and spending hours at my hives just watching the bees do their things. I do it as a project manager in terms of helping my developers get into flow. That maker manager or the, well, the maker manager split. I love being able to provide that for other people. And now I need to figure out how do I reconnect into Drupal knowing that that's my why because it took me a long time to realize that that's what I needed to be able to provide in any given situation. So I'm going to flip through a couple of questions here because I want you to be able to start thinking about your why, your purpose, your cause, your belief or your personal mission statement. If we think about the origins of the word mission, it's it is about going out, going on that adventure and knowing in Bilbo's case that you want to come home. So again, I'm just going to flip through these. I'll read them quickly. You can jot notes down, think about them, wonder if I'm crazy. It's all good. We'll start it with what makes you smile. It's probably going to be a little bit different for everyone. When you lose track of time, what are you doing? Playing threes does count. What are your favorite things to do? Yes, I'm Canadian. There's a you in favorite. Is there anything you don't feel gifted at but love doing anyways? I don't feel particularly gifted as a programmer, but I really enjoy getting in and fixing bugs. I love it when something is broken and then it's working. Not so much of the overall architecture of things, but that, you know, won't compile to compile. Love that feeling. When people ask for your help, what do they want help with? If you had to teach something, what would you teach? Who would your students be? When you quit, what is typically your last straw? So it's just a series of questions to get you thinking about, why are you here? What brings you to this Drupal conference? And I'm guessing that for you to make it through the crowd, up the escalator, then the other escalator, to come to the end of the hall to find room 15, it's probably not just because your employer paid for your ticket. There's probably some deeper reason that you feel connected to this project, to this community, and want to be in this room today. So I want you to work on kind of being a little bit selfish. And I've left this slide intentionally blank, because I don't know if you can't see it. It actually says the space left intentionally blank. We're about to now start the second part of the presentation. And I want you to hold, as you were sort of thinking about those questions, I want you to hold on to what some of the answers may have been for you. And if you want to tweet it out, if you want to share with others, that's fantastic. I think it would be fun for people to say why they feel connected to this community, and why they're here. Put it on the hashtag poundruplecon, so that you can share it with others at the conference. But I think it is critical that you are able to be selfish, that you know what you are getting from this project. Bilbo, sort of halfway through his adventure, was committed to the why the dwarves were adventuring, not what they were adventuring at any given point. He didn't want to go out and fight with spiders. He didn't want to go out and be thrown around by rock giants. He was committed to their why. So a little bit about me. In 2003, I ripped out the content storage tables for Drupal, for my own content management system. Back in the day, we all wrote our own CMS. I was no stranger to that evolution. My Drupal.org user ID is 1773. Yes, it only has four digits. I've been around for quite a while. In 2005, after having spent a couple of years writing my own CMS, I came back and took a look at what Drupal was able to do with its growing body of contributors, throughout all of my own work, and committed myself to working with Drupal. Waka at the time, James Walker, gave me a lot of support. And in 2007, I knit the Drupal socks as a gift for Waka, because that was what I could contribute to the project. I could contribute my thanks to the individual developers. The pattern is, because it uses the Drupalcon, it is open-sourced, it is using, it is GPL'd, because that is the viral nature of the GPL license. It is the first knitting pattern on record, which uses the GPL. I know it's nerdy, right? Come on. It's a nerd conference. Work with me. In 2009, my first book was published. Chex, thanks for being my tech editor on that book. My apologies for all of the things that I left in that were security flaws I knew about. It also was an interesting moment for me. Toward the end of the year, Moshe, who was an early contributor to Drupal, said to me at that time, it was a late-night conversation. We were New Orleans. There was bourbon involved. Said to me that my mother's website should not be built on Drupal. Drupal was too powerful for what I needed it to do for her business website. And it crushed me because at the time, I was selling hope to small businesses. I was selling that flow of a business being able to easily ramp up. And it stuck with me. So in 2009, I also had my first core patch, first and only core patch. 2011, I shut out to the Canadian government, ran for office for the Green Party, and also had my second book published. 2013, I taught my first Drupal 8 workshop. And in 2014, my mom's website is still using Drupal 5. Thanks, Moshe. So again, I mentioned that I sold the promise of easy growth to these small businesses. And it was the community of contributed modules, which allowed me to provide flow to small businesses. They could start with a brochure site and scale up depending on the businesses' needs. But the community is what enabled that. It wasn't me as a developer. The next thing I started selling in terms of Frontend Drupal was that state of flow to designers and themers because I helped them overcome the learning hurdles for Drupal theming. And I wrote it in a book and I shared it through presentations and workshops. And now we've got Drupal 8. And that development cycle has been pretty tough. We've also seen our first real fork, and I actually perceive the fork to be a very positive thing for our community. I know I'm not in the majority. You are welcome to disagree with me and explain to me why. It's a negative thing as part of the Q&A afterwards. In New Zealand, I had a slide where I tried to define what Drupal's why was. If we go back to Simon Sinek's Golden Circle, and I couldn't do it, there were pages and pages of notes for this particular slide, and I thought really hard about it, I stressed about it, and I just couldn't wrap my head around why Drupal existed. What was it all for? Where I've got the arrow there is the line, come for the software, stay for the community. And that's what I kept coming back to you and thinking, well, how does that make it our why? Is it about the code? Is it about the community? I don't know, and I don't really know that I've figured it out. So I started to ask myself, what's our mission statement? And for Drupal 8, the best I could come up with was it's the modernization of our infrastructure. That's what Drupal 8 is about. It's not the same as what it was for Drupal 7, but this is the best that I could come up with. And for this presentation, I did a bit more research, and I've got two slides worth of quotes here. Our mission was to create Drupal fast, small, clean, and on the bleeding edge of technology. At the end of the day, we can't make everybody happy, and it is very important that you realize that. Now this quote is actually a 2006 quote from Drees, and it was on backwards compatibility, and if you go and read that blog post, the comments are a series of gems from old-time community members, some of the names you may not recognize if you're fairly new to the community, it actually uses the F word, it uses the fork word, and how this is going to splinter our community. Well, that's 2006, and we didn't have our first, I mean, sure the Python fork was technically a fork, but it's Python, we're not going to count any. Awkward. So next slide. Drupal has been trying to be consistent in terms of its code. If we're talking about the modernization of the infrastructure for Drupal 8, Drupal has always wanted to be leading edge modern software. So what happened? Well, so my joke on this is that, you know, we used to have a mission statement and it was in the theme and you could print out your mission statement, and now we have this mission statement that's printed on our website, except it's not really a mission statement, it's actually a site slogan, and that on the one hand it's sort of trivial to joke about it and it's kind of funny to say, well, the variable name changed, but I think we also lost our mission statement as a community and we came to think of ourselves as community first and code second, and I think that's a negative thing to do. On the Drupal 8 landing page, the headline of that page is that Drupal 8 will have something for everyone to love, but we know that that's not true. We know that there's a lot of developers who are really frustrated with Drupal 8, so I think that we're not being true about what the positive things are about Drupal 8, and I think there's a lot of really, really amazing things about the code. The modernization of the infrastructure was sorely needed, but it has caused these frustrations for the community and I think we need to stop pretending to be something that everyone will love. It's like when Moshe said to me in 2009, Drupal is not for your mother's website, and I mean, the Drupal User's Guide, the quote, or not the quote, the dedication of the book for my Drupal User's Guide was, this book is for my mother who asked for the manual to her website, and I still believe that businesses deserve to grow, but as we heard in the keynote presentation today, Driz sees us as being an enterprise level product, and that may not be what you wanted to build five years ago, and so now we need to start asking ourselves, what do we want? I can still help in terms of contributing flow, I can still help developers to learn and get a really positive experience working with Drupal, but that doesn't mean that I necessarily want to build with it for my mom's website. My mom has a community publishing program in Owensound. You've probably never heard of it. It's a community of 20,000 people in rural Ontario, so yes, maybe Drupal is not exactly the right product for her. We need to put our stake back in the ground, and we need to define and own what the why is for Drupal. Massive change, though, doesn't happen by magic, it happens by management, and I think we really need to look to the change management field to get support in making this transition. It's not been an easy transition for a lot of people. Change management is the application of a structured process and set of tools for leading people to the desired outcome, and that desired outcome part is critical. I think part of what we're missing is that we don't have a shared definition of what the problem even is and where we are trying to move to. This is by design, it's how Dries leads. He leads from behind and he allows the community to really say what they want, and I am so grateful for Dries allowing us to essentially be the dwarves and come in and take over his project, but it's also, I think, really been a difficult, we are now at a difficult point where the product is getting updated and now we've become Bilbo and we want our product back to a certain degree. So having a shared definition of that problem allows stakeholders to understand why the change is necessary, why do we need to have that modern infrastructure. The examples he was giving today during the keynote in terms of the whole foods personalized experience, that why is critical for us to feel like we can be part of something bigger. That shared vision of the future also allows the stakeholders to understand how they will benefit from the changes that are being made. Backdrop didn't share Drupal's definition of the problem and I think that was stressful for our community, but I also think it was a really fantastic thing. Backdrop, if you go and look at their website, has very clear statements of what they are about, how they are different, well, not even how they're different because we don't really define ourselves. We don't say loud and clear this is our mission statement. We've got a slogan and you have to, I mean, you have to know that Drupal.org-slash-mission is where you get the mission statement from. We've got two copies of the principles. Do you go to slash principles or do you grab them from the bottom of slash mission? We've got Drupal 8, something everyone will love and we've become this sort of circle of hippie love which is fantastic and why we all love open source. But I think Backdrop has some positive lessons to teach us about how to help people buy into a vision and say yes, I know how to help you because there are things that I want to be part of in terms of the personalization of the web in terms of making sure that Google doesn't get to own everything, that we can still have our platforms, we can be part of an open web, we can contribute really positive things even if it means that we aren't building websites for our mom's bookstore anymore. So that's my outrageous and bold presentation. Discuss. This is our mission statement just as a by the way. The Drupal mission is to develop a leading edge open source content management system that implements the latest thinking and best practices in community publishing, knowledge management, and software design. So I'm also going to propose is this still our mission statement? Should we be updating our mission statement? Are there clarifications necessary? Are there updates necessary? Or does this still meet our needs and we simply need to promote our mission statement with a bit more vigor? Ta-da! Go ahead, Carl. So another data point for you. The site that got me into Drupal in the first place is in the progress of migrating off Drupal to Symphony at my recommendation. Because Drupal used to run that application framework line and at this point it's a terrible, terrible framework. It's a much better CMS application but it's a terrible framework if all you want is a framework. And that is a thing we have effectively said no to. It's a thing we said no to, that's where I came from, but that is a thing we've said no to. So yes, we need to take note of those things. To your last question here, I would actually say what's changed is the definition of content management system has changed from 15 years ago. It used to be content management system is what you call the blog with lots of features. Now a content management system has to have the concept of abstracted content as its own thing and presentation and structure and curation and that's what it means to be a CMS. And if we want to still call ourselves a CMS that's what we need to embrace because that is what that part of the market is now. Which actually I think is fine because I completely agree with Dries from his keynote we are one of the best systems on the market if not the best when it comes to structured content if we admit that to ourselves and let us just focus on that. And that's always been part of our problem. You know, CCK and Views blew everything else in the market out of the water five, six years ago and we didn't realize just how big that was. We need to keep pushing that separation that real content management platform concept because that's where we're strongest and that's where we can keep a large active market and community because that's what the market needs and that's what we are good at. So let's just focus on that. Yeah, I think it is. It's more for the recording than the amplification. Okay, there's got to be other hecklers. The mission statement you would need to check the DO page in terms of, okay, we have a right answer. October 13th, 2012. Okay, but did you check the diff to see that's when the mission statement was changed? I'm sorry I'm being super nerdy now. Good question. Thank you. So October 13th, 2012 was a series of changes by Lee Hunter, which looks like a major rewrite from 2008 Moche had the update in 2008 and there are significant differences. Though the mission statement itself in 2008 looks to be basically the same to develop a leading edge. It's in 2012 that we got that list of principles below. So I'll continue looking through the diffs to find the mission statement to actually get at it. The tagline started out as a... I don't think I have it on the actual upload of the slides, but the tagline that we have now came out of a Drupal Association meeting and it was Chex who proposed that as part of the DO redesign we get rid of community plumbing and instead adopt come for the code, stay for the community as our tagline. So if you do a bit of searching I've got the links in my speaker notes but I don't think I uploaded them. It's not a negative thing. Community plumbing wasn't our mission statement either. So it's not a negative thing. It just again was interesting to see how has this stuff evolved and again the comments on that were really really interesting to read. Bring the mic down a bit. There you go. My personal mission statement is to allow people to have full control over their lives and what they do and their happiness. The issue I have with the mission statement is I don't understand why we're building an open source thing and most of us are using proprietary instruments and devices to do this and I'm wondering if Drupal will ever embrace free software because when you're building an open source thing and you're on a proprietary thing how does that make sense? How many people are longtime Linux users? I am. So if you circle around I would say that over half of the room is our longtime Linux users. Will Drupal adopt that as a formal thing instead of telling us a lot of proprietary messages in the keynote? Okay, fair. I see what you mean. Drop in the thought bombs. Way to go. In your talk you mentioned that you had all these notes about and you couldn't come up with a single answer. I wonder if part of the reason that this is kind of vague and doesn't get to the point and hasn't been changed is that everyone brings their own mission statement to Drupal and that we can't define what the mission statement of the community is because everyone has their personal reason for being here which kind of goes back to the very beginning of your talk. Yes. Totally yes. I don't have a quite... Thanks for coming. This is a question for the group, yeah. What I'm hearing, there was a question that was asked with Drees this morning and I'm actually hearing it as a theme a lot in what you just talked about and I don't know how I feel about it yet. I think I know my opinions on it Can you repeat the question? I didn't say for the Q&A, I knew I had to run up here. Sure. The theme is basically Drupal going enterprise really sort of abandon and leave behind the freelance. The question was is Drupal 8 Enterprise focused going to have a negative impact on freelancers and I'm hearing the same thing from you. This enterprise thing that we're focused on is that really... The lineup just got really long for the recording just that you know this is an awesome question. This is compatibility. I think I know my opinion to myself at the moment. I think I know my opinion too. I mean also sort of if we're to look at the... I don't want to dominate the whole thing here which I could very easily do. The timeline that Drees gave is like the systems themselves got more and more complex and what he kind of didn't get at is like that technology that was making its way into the cameras was actually starting in a lot of cases with the exception of Polaroid with the professional grade systems and making their way down to the consumer grade stuff. It's backwards. And so my opinion is I don't see an incompatibility here and while all this stuff is being built to make it much more of an enterprise grade system if he actually talks about the problem of essentially the first access to the content being through the search engines and the Googles of the world then like more than anything else they feel like your mother's publishing shop like needs to have that baked in because it's really not in her best interest or your best interest as someone helping her to like be like well here let's spend an hour on SEO this afternoon so that's... Thank you. I wanted to pivot a little bit and just talk about the actual the mission statement itself as you put it up there because if you strip out all the like jargon We've got the word the and and Yeah You're basically left with it the Drupal mission is to build a CMS right? That's all that's left It talks a lot about how and not at all about why and I've watched the little 20-minute spiel about the importance of why and all that and this completely misses the point as far as you know why are we doing this so we should just throw this away and start over this mission statement is really bad because I mean these are great principles but they're not something Principles, values and missions in the business world are all very different things and they're also when you look for examples of what's a really great mission statement versus a vision statement it's actually not clear like this stuff is hard work we have over 600,000 active memberships on D.O. This is not going to be easy at all to decide what our community or is it Drees's responsibility or is it the Association's responsibility so yes thank you John this is I think something that we should throw out and something that the Association right now is working on the RASCII roles areas of responsibilities something something I can't remember what the acronym stands for but it that stuff is being thought of right now in terms of whose job is it if you go back and look at the governance keynote that Lisa Welchman gave last year the parts of the community are starting to ask these questions in terms of whose job like what are we allowed to bring versus what should Drupal provide for us and I encourage you to be selfish and figure out what you want Drupal to be for you and to you know charge full on into the fray of making sure that you're getting your needs met checks I well if you think one the dwarf with the dwarf that was nori the second thing is that have left share hosting behind yes that is not something that was made consciously we were debating it but it happened there's just no doubt about that that just happened without a doubt I just looked up nearly free speech because they are really building you by usage and basically they are building by memory use then so on and Drupal 8 is just going to use much more for example memory limit is going to be much higher and one of our principles is that we can provide our software on the lowest possible infrastructure so we have to update our principles for Drupal 8 because we can't meet our principles as of Drupal 8 so that definitely have changed something as that I feel has changed in Drupal 8 as for freelancers is that and then let me be very clear that this is not necessarily a bad thing but this is a change this is a fundamental change that in many cases you could get into Drupal 6 for sure at least 7 is debatable and 8 is for sure not by the way of just taking a working website copying a few lines of code maybe from an example module and enacting some change in 7 this was sometimes doable sometimes not doable and 8 this is out the window so for freelancers basically the entry the barrier to entry is higher the barrier to entry is much higher now you need to invest much more into Drupal and once again this is not necessarily a bad thing it's just a thing thanks Chex so touching on a couple of those comments I've always felt that the freelancer versus enterprise dichotomy is a completely false one because it conflates the vendor size and the client size and the experienced level of developers which are all completely different things the whole point of open source is that the random freelancer in the proverbial parent's basement has access to the same level of software I wasn't living in my mom's basement when I built that website but there are some who are that developer has access to the same level of software and software quality whatever that level is as the Fortune 500 consultancy with a thousand developers in it that is making it more accessible than an awful lot of what's on the market and then being able to serve Whole Foods or the White House as well as it does work for both of those which is no small feat it may not be a great fit for all of them but Drupal has a very broad target that it can serve it might serve it better if it was a narrower target but it does have a very broad target so part of that dichotomy I think is just misunderstanding what we're actually talking about as far as the developer the fly-by-night self-taught on weekend developer I completely disagree with what Chek said on that front it's why we're here for discussion I am going to if you turn around there's like six people behind you just that you know and we've got five minutes left I'll try and talk fast a lot of the changes we made for Drupal 8 were made consciously because there are more people in the world who already understand things that look like everybody else and so for the random developer who knows some PHP coming into Drupal Drupal 8 is going to be more familiar than Drupal 7 it is going to be easier for the newbie developer than Drupal 7 was it's okay I can totally see you disagreeing and I'm going to take it away from the microphone so we can get some more comments in this is why I gave this presentation so that we could open the discussion I am I'm fairly new to the Drupal community and this is my first Drupal console welcome I don't know all the background but it seems to me that you were talking about Dries sort of getting behind and letting everyone lead and there's the Drupal community but I have to ask the question and this is good for our clients having the Drupal 8 infrastructure and you know the way it's being set up but how much of this is the community and how much of this is larger commercial for profit enterprises we will all have a different answer I'm not going to answer this but I would like everyone in the audience to think of what that answer is and go talk to Eric afterwards so I'll look at that the biggest issue I have with it in terms of Drupal 8 is content management system because you're now talking about services you're talking about basically a dam I could run a digital asset management system off of it so it's still sort of presented as something to deliver a website and now it could be non web facing it could be an aggregator it could be anything so that's the thing that sort of gives it some sort of stigma immediately and the other concept is I don't understand why you can't have differentiated products that work fine with somebody else you don't have to adopt sort of forcing someone to go along this path that doesn't make sense for them so true because we do that on the desktop all the time totally agree awesome thank you hi I just wanted to say that I want to kind of speak up for the freelance developer because sometimes I feel like oh the freelance developer is not going to be able to handle that I think we're a pretty sharp group of people yes we are I am looking forward to being able to have these tools to help these small businesses compete with these big people to be able to have enterprise class tools that I can offer these people cheaply is going to be fantastic awesome and I'm going to use that as the conclusion for this session thank you so much everyone please do add rating when you go to the website and add your rating for this particular any comments are I believe in that rating only visible by me so if you have extra thought bombs that you want to add please add them in the public comments but personal trolls leave in the private ratings thank you so much again I if you do want to continue the discussion I'm on twitter hw you can also get me in IRC in poundruple I'm Emma Jane on IRC thanks again everyone and run quickly to lunch