 Good afternoon and welcome to today's energy seminar. We have yet another real treat today Most of you probably know or could guess that Stanford has quite a well-developed and productive energy innovation ecosystem And I'm pleased to introduce our speakers today who a lot of people have contributed to the ecosystem here probably a couple hundred but if I had to think of two people who were kind of most Vital in achieving what's been achieved so far and thinking about The way forward with the energy ecosystem energy innovation Ecosystem here. I would say today's two speakers would be very high on my list probably right at the top So we have I'll introduce them in reverse speaking order Professor each way the head of the pre-chord Institute Professor of material science and engineering energy systems engineering Our new department where a few of us are as well Photon science and a few other things world-renowned Researcher and batteries and solar cells and whatnot and then leading off today probably one of the most impactful person without Taking too much without taking as much credit as he deserves. We have Brian Bartholomew He's actually an alumni PhD alumni of the material science and engineering department here and he runs a program called the innovation transfer program on Through the Tomcat Center for Sustainable energy systems I got all that right. Thanks. So without further ado, I'll turn it over to Brian to start Jump in thanks very much Kind introduction John and good afternoon everybody. It's my distinct pleasure to Give you a sort of a personal view of this energy Innovation ecosystem here at Stanford and I think you're all very lucky that we have a professor. He's joining us he's a Definitely a world-renowned and recognized Scientist innovator and entrepreneur and the two of us are going to kind of tag team Hopefully, it's not going to be too chaotic, but we'll try to Choreograph things and walk you through Perhaps our personal views of this ecosystem. We won't cover it in its totality But we'll try to give you as complete a picture as we possibly can So the first thing I think to to kind of set the stage and calibrate ourselves is to Look at the the extensive energy ecosystem. We have here at Stanford. It's pretty staggering It's like I would say one of the largest Focus there focus areas, you know, there's over 300 faculty involved in one or another aspect of energy Be it technology or policy or finance or the regulatory aspects and this is in all seven schools So there's even health aspects, you know Environmental justice aspects there's all manner of issues associated with energy that are the subject of focus and interest here at Stanford And there's also You know over a hundred energy related classes It may be much more than that. There's classes popping up on a regular basis and There again, there's a richness that the students really can benefit from and Do benefit from There's also, you know over 20 energy related centers initiatives Institutes again roughly focusing on a sort of a thematic Area, but there's a lot of overlap in typical Stanford fashion. We have this sort of decentralized overlapping System where there's a lot of there's multiple ways of looking at the same problem and I think this Even though it can look sometimes a little bit chaotic and inefficient. I think has a very powerful effect in terms of letting multiple school schools of thought prevail as a wise man once said There's also seven student led clubs. There could be more the Sanford energy club, which I'm sure most of you are familiar with is Perhaps one that reaches more students on campus than any other a very active club that tends to serve as an intermediary among different student groups and also between the faculty and students and outside the external community and Stanford and Very just starting this year. We have a new energy theme house which Holmes Hummel here Leads another really interesting and vibrant addition to this ecosystem and Then of course we have a remarkable resource in in in terms of the national labs like national lab Which is just up the road and this is a an institution that? Is very very Deeply enmeshed with the technical work that goes on here at Stanford. Maybe you would make a comment about slack and how faculty and students interact with slack I myself have a joint apartment with campus as well as slack As you know slack has this amazing facility the single-chrome x-ray and also the free x-ray electron laser So this and also quiet Janet electron microscopy facility This is really all for very powerful tools to understand the energy technology problems It's also a way to engage with the power more energy a lot for example We are in the process at prequel Institute. We slack to join start a Battery research center. This will offer Additional resources in addition to our storage acts initiative here on campus to work side-by-side Storage acts initiative work with industry investors a lot and the joint center with slack will open up the opportunity With department energy so these work hand-in-hand to enhance the whole energy innovation ecosystem here at Stanford Violent I'll let you go on another good point of calibration is to look at the Impact the economic impact Stanford has had Over the years this is a study unfortunately only up to 2012 If any of you know Chuck easily please try and convince him to update this study, but by 2012 there had been a 18,000 companies formed in California alone with revenues over a trillion dollars Employing more than three million people and perhaps the most important part was about 40% of these companies were within a one-hour Radius 60 miles of Stanford and this is the secret sauce of Silicon Valley. This created this concentrated Resource that we have of Experienced innovators as people experience that product commercialization all the ancillary services the financing etc etc that supported wave after wave of innovation in the Valley and This is something I think that is extremely significant and Something well worth thinking about and it's something that as we move forward with energy innovation or any innovation for that matter it's it's sort of a non-parallel resource that people have access to and Exploit and and utilize to the fullest So the basic innovation sequence at Stanford tends to very much be sort of core Concept or technology development? sometimes, you know the innovation is a business concept sometimes it's deep science sometimes it's Software and then these come out from typically sponsored research from the centers the institutes Collaborative initiatives they feed into this rich Ecosystem of entrepreneurial resources that we have there are the two big the engineering Entrepreneurship Center and the Center for entrepreneurial studies at the GSB and then a whole bunch of classes that are kind of climate environment sustainability energy focused classes like Climate ventures hiking for climate startup garage There's probably there's many many more of them I haven't sort of created an exhaustive list But that's just to give you a flavor for the next stage that we have in terms of advancing these innovations out of the University because one of the key elements is of course Externalizing these innovations is probably not much use having them just sit here And this pathway that has been developed at the University is very mature very effective And then there's certain other programs the Office of Technology Licensing has just started a program as well that helps to externalize innovation and from there we go to the much more startup-oriented resources like You know the startup the sustainability accelerator Which I think is going to be a major major vehicle for getting new ideas out into the real world He's going to talk about that. He's been instrumental in helping set that up and he'll talk about that a bit later But then the programs we have at Tomcat Venture Studios bases and then statics of course this great resource that we have Very close to Sanford on Hanover Avenue So in the course of of my time here the ten years that I've spent Working in the innovation space. It's very interesting to sort of see where the ideas originated from Obviously many of them come from research or they come from academic classes and labs They may come from talks and conferences and other things like that Internships and work there's been a number of things where people did an internship and came back with the Sort of a brainwave said oh my goodness. These people are doing things this way and I've got a better idea There are project-based classes You know where you're actually trying to solve problems clubs and societies and then simple brainstorming We've had a number of extremely successful ventures Where a bunch of people just got together and started to talk friends among themselves in a dorm or department about an idea that they had and Down the road we're looking at the sustainability accelerators being another really major critical driver of new ideas and innovations that can be developed and advanced and deployed Oops Sorry hit the wrong button there So the Tomcat now I'm going to give you sort of the personal View of the Tomcat innovation transfer program like I said We're going to touch upon a few things not maybe going to detail about everything because we don't have the time But I'll just talk to you a little bit about the innovation transfer program So we're not an accelerator or incubator what we are I like to say is a concierge service So when people come to us with some concept that they want to externalize We recognize that they all have different needs different timelines different capabilities And so our job is to try to tailor some kind of best fit solution for each of these teams that's what we do and We complement the existing ecosystem. In fact, I would say that we shamelessly Leverage and exploit every resource that's available on campus anything. We don't have to do we don't do But there's an enormous number of things that exists that we can then call upon to help these folks and Then we also have a very experienced team of volunteer mentor advisors who help Start the students and all the faculty or staff of whoever's on this team start them on the journey of Converting a prototype or a concept into a product. That's not something typically stopped taught at the University It's a it's a process. It's a discipline It's something that everybody has to go through it's something that almost every team I talked to underestimates In terms of the time money and resource required But this is something where we feel this is the white space primarily that we fill So our program is open to everybody in the University. We accept applications from faculty or students or staff There's no restrictions in the area or the impact. It doesn't have to be a Gizillion-dollar business that makes a hundred million dollars in three years. We don't look at things through a VC lens Mission is externalizing Stanford innovation and this could be Licensing it could be partnership. It could be a major demonstration at scale of some technology But being Stanford a lot of them tend to be start-up. So we're pretty agnostic in that regard What we're looking for is a well-defined problem or a solution to a well-defined problem There has to be some kind of sustainability or energy component to it There has to be a core Stanford innovation So if somebody is going out comes to me and says hey, I want to go set up micro grids in some Impoverished part of the world. I say god bless you go ahead, but that's not really an innovation We want to see something that's unique to Stanford in what what they're working on The team a majority of the team has to be at Stanford at the time of the They apply for these grants, but the day after we make the award they can all graduate the whole notion here is innovation transfer And we're not funding research class projects science projects things like that. We actually are funding We need to see some demonstration of You know a willingness or a desire to for the people to actually take this project and go Have you take root on the outside? We highly recommend that they take sort of a basic business class So that words like customer discovery and product market fit aren't alien to them and each of these projects since it's Stanford money We can't cut a check to a company or a person. They need to have a Stanford Pi somebody who's either involved on involved in the project that it's through their department that the funds are dispersed So in a sense this concierge role you can see we sort of sit in the middle and we're sort of shuttling people from academic academic programs to entrepreneurship classes or vice versa and We have our mentors feeding in we feed send people to experiential learning programs and Ultimately, we help them go out. We've just helped some get into the sustainability accelerator. So we're sort of in the middle of that trying to Kind of direct traffic and equip people with the tools and resources and knowledge and education that they need to take things To externalize things from the University So just some metrics on the program so far Last week we supported our hundredth project 100 Projects over since the fall of 2013 We've given five point six million dollars in equity-free grants to these people and the grants are very specific to have a very specific Very specific uses that we designate they've gone on to raise over one point six Almost one point seven billion dollars in follow-on funding Now obviously we can't take credit for all that money because these teams actually raise that money But this model seems to work well where we give them this initial money that otherwise it's so very difficult to find You know to build a prototype to do customer trials to do market validation There's 35 revenue generating companies right now of these grants Oh, I should point out two things of that money about a hundred and fifty six million dollars has been non-diluted grants from the government and State agencies and other people like that foundations There's 35 revenue generating companies now and the employee, you know almost 2,000 people they have a good recurring revenue and the enterprise value is Right now about five point nine billion dollars. So that's a pretty good number I should say I will point out in a minute that that number is a little bit biased by one company But still it's a good number about 20 of the projects didn't work out of the hundred and that's a perfectly fine Outcome as far as we're concerned because we provide them funding to determine the commercialization potential of something that they're working on So just a sampling of companies some which you may have heard of Aurora solar we funded them. They were in our first group of companies. We funded they recently. They are the leading supplier of software for Rooftop solar design and simulation It's a very comprehensive package that they they provide and they recently raised the 250 million dollar round at a four billion dollar valuation that was the skew on the enterprise value We also have other very interesting companies as renewal energy These guys came up with this gravity-based solution where you could store You know intermittent renewable energy in one of the three million oil and gas abandoned oil and gas wells in the US And not only can you use that to store energy as an energy storage device where you? You pulse a weight up when you have excess energy and then you lower it when you want that energy But it also helps to seal the well and prevent environmental leakages and things like that Clear flame engines that came out of these are two PhD students out of the mechanical engineering department They are now currently running trucks that With slightly modified diesel engines they work with the these big diesel engine manufacturers and these run on ethanol and seem to work just fine So they're well on their way and finally a very interesting company and Torah energy again Long duration grid scale storage where they pretty much heat up Somethings that that's as cheap as mud to store energy heat it up so it's glowing hot and then when you either need industrial heat or you need electricity they use thermal photovoltaics to to Convict the heat into electricity very interesting company. They're currently I think building a pilot demonstration system in the Central Valley So this is of the 100 this is just four of them that are more on the energy side so this is a graphic of all these different companies that we have supported and Just like my in my opening comments where I talked about this Ecosystem that has been used and reused here the Silicon Valley a secret source Our teams tend to do that for subsequent ones these teams that we have supported our source of inspiration and a tremendous resource for our new team So we're trying to create this kind of regenerative community that is a repository of of experience and tribal law and connections and all this kind of thing and In a sense, we have our little Silicon Valley embedded in the large Silicon Valley now sort of peripheral to this as part of our goal of Engaging people and exposing them to innovation. We have a program which we started very small, but now we place undergraduates in These startup companies that we have spun out last summer we placed 50 students. So you get to go work in a startup company You probably have one or two days worth of orientation. You're thrown in at the deep end and then you sink or swim It's not like working. It's a big company where you're a tourist over the summer making photocopies and Doing stuff like that here. You're actually doing something that really will stretch you and Isn't so much a function of what you've learned or what you know But how you synthesize everything that you have learned and kind of find a way to use it So these these applications are currently open and it's a very popular program that we built up But but some students come back and say, oh my god, I'll never work in a startup I want work life balance and others say this is just amazing. This is what I want to do That's the kind of goal to give them this exposure We have some other programs one is a graduate fellowship for translational research where we provide two years of support for Year three and onwards PhD students where they can explore transition to the more practical aspects of the fundamental research that they're doing and Then we also have a program called the Tomcat solutions program Which is sort of a three-phase thing. It's very much like what the accelerator implemented and we this one instead of Catering to people's ideas we give them specific topics How to reduce deforestation how to reduce greenhouse gases in the developing world how to meet mitigate wildfires and Anybody can come there and depending on the sophistication or the level of your ideas you can come and ask apply for a grant and we Support people. We've already awarded four of them Now I've given you the Tomcat story now He's going to talk a little bit about some broader based University programs and then end with his Story, which I think is very inspirational and I think a model that that that can be Followed and emulated so Thank you, Brian. So this is very exciting indeed the Tomcat centers in the Ways in Chancellor program My one of my students Richard Wang in postdoc Maura Pasta they benefited from the Tomcat transfer program and Started Cuba later acquired by Northward doing working on lithium metal batteries. This this has been very successful Now I want to share with you this whole energy innovation ecosystem Is the new school the door school of sustainability? Starting this is very very exciting a key feature in addition to the department in the new school the two Institute prequel Institute for energy woods Institute for environment and the third Institute for sustainable society in addition to these features very exciting feature is the sustainability accelerator is trying to recognize sustainability we need to have impact driven Society impact driven whether it's technology or the policy solution you're going from academia to Real society we need to do that fast So this require us to integrate Academia resources together working closely with external global network and the now the school setting up a Faculty council To really try to move these to full speed with a scale and speed together to make an impact last year the accelerator already made 30 Grants to faculty team involving students and postdocs from technology to policy and Cover really broad areas giving the first test. How do we really translate? Solution with speed and scale so that there will be more coming There will be significant resources pumping into the sustainability accelerator. So this is a Encourages to pay attention to this close attention to this these will provide huge resources to go to the next level the next slide And also at the same time Recognizing there are many entrepreneurship related to an entrepreneurship program related to energy and sustainability There is a need To help streamline the whole process You know, we have many classes on Entrepreneurship such as the Stanford climate ventures and business school has a startup garage You've seen the Tom cast innovation transfer programs last year One of our Stanford friend recognized this this opportunity right here to help streamline this whole thing Making a gift to set up the eco-pronunciation program I help serving as a faculty co-director with the professor Stefanos Zeno's and business school and we are at this moment try to enhance the resources going into different Entrepreneurship program at the same time. We also recognize this actually gap There are gaps right there during this process giving, you know, how great Stanford already been doing There are actually still gaps. We try to fill in those gaps make it easier for students This program is really targeting students not faculty you know to integrate it even more and to the Entrepreneurship for the sustainability domain Next so I'll probably show with you briefly my personal journey a little bit Brian and I will be Open up to questions very soon. I'll spend a couple of minutes to share with you my experience when I joined Stanford faculty in 2005 I I would say I didn't have the mindset of Entrepreneurship at all starting our company not really there The thinking was trying to work on research problems that I can have the impact and The energy space in the clean energy space So Automatically that lead to the innovation I picked the battery's problem to work on very early days lead to the innovation. How do you create? Technology that can have much higher energy density than the current technology So I invented something called silicon nano structure and now that can offer 10 times a lithium-ion storage capacity compared to graphite That really now utilize the ecosystem Brian just mentioned you know within 60 miles. You see this. This is amazing things happening Entrepreneurs right here Investors right here all the legal service accounting service all within our reach Forming the first startup company and prayers. This is certainly a very Interesting learning process as well starting our benefit company is actually very very hard doing that process Make it to work the technology by itself of challenge And then thinking about scaling. It's very hard Eventually making something that's really worked workable in the real environment takes a lot of time a lot of investments Why they are not not so easy but along the way and I do learn tremendously and through working with investors and entrepreneurs Continue the innovation on other problems. I see that can create an impact for example I will never predict myself Working on Infiltration it was really due to my travel to Asia seeing all these PM 2.5 particles Pollutions coming back to motivate us to innovate Create a nanofiber Polymer nanofiber technologies to remove very small particles later leading to the funding of a foresee a company Turn out to be doing COVID-19 a COVID-19 time, right all these Viruses and we generated the best facial masks with amazing air credibility high filtration efficiency I only trust my own the facial mask. So I wear my own facial mask all the time Also through this out this process also recognizing I'm just showing me through my learning journey if you have multiple technology innovation in the lab and Doing it one by one. It's not a scalable method about six years ago. I recognize this problem and Talking to Stanford office of technology licensing saying hi if I'll do this spin out is one by one and The all the patterns already expire by the time I retire many technologies just sitting in the lab So why don't we come up a new idea how to do this in parallel? I set up the inner way technology now renamed as inner tech as a technology accelerator company and taking multiple about 20 patents releases from Stanford OOTL and You know incubate a salary all at the same time and Spin now in a venue and life-lapse for example in the venue is a grisky energy storage company also based on the technology Invented in my lab is a quick solution batteries very safe very long life a very low cost as Well as a life-lapse design that's a cooling and warming textile technology Today, I didn't wear my own products But I have it hanging right in my office. So welcome to a stop by to try out our Coolest cooling clothing as a warmest warming clothing as well So some lessons learn is actually impact driven research Lead to this journey. I think many of our students and faculty probably didn't think about starting our company but through Thinking about how do you make an impact to the real society and travel all the way back and starting from the technology innovation? you know spin our company this linkage is very powerful and also this linkage of impact driven Innovation and can get you go very far once you face difficulties, you know something that can keep you motivated Can not get up early in the morning just keeps going. It's probably that impact. That's the most important thing. I Think we stand I think we should leave some time for a Q&A I probably should take a pause right here and see whether our students, faculty, colleagues right here Have questions. Thank you Hi, my name is John plumber and I was wondering you mentioned the Tomcat solutions picks topics and challenges students to solve them What what's coming up next? With the Tomcat solutions program You said rather than taking student ideas you challenge students with themes to solve problems. Is that correct? That's right. So the program is just a little over a year old And so we've launched with these three topics, but we're kind of open to suggestions as well. I mean at the end of the day We don't claim to have the best ideas in terms of what Problems need to be addressed and solved. So we're sort of open to suggestions right now. We're sort of progressing in this kind of You know kind of a controlled format the Tomcat Center is only four people. We're just a Tiny little center that runs like a startup So we have a limited ability to to to spread ourselves thin we kind of consciously avoid doing that But I would say that towards the end of this year. We may come up with additional ideas But if if people have ideas we welcome them to submit them to us and say hey look, you know, there Here's a here's a problem area that we think Would be interesting and we would consider it I'm currently trying to solve a problem for Airbus Emissions Clouds to rain And I know that that's a colloquial phrase. We're basically trying to D cloud seed the emissions from hydrogen jet propulsion Creates not the nitrous oxide as well as water and the water of high altitude creates clouds and They're just creating a greenhouse impact. So that's my awesome. So that's very interesting actually We had a post-op program and we funded a student who I think works with Catherine Gorley on these The contrails from contrail mitigation mitigation from hydrogen engines So we've supported some we've supported a PhD student who's I think working for two years on this very problem Okay, thank you Yeah, I have a question. So for the programs like you described like you supported for Students, I'm wondering like how many of them they are like computational based like like students are developing a software or like really That's that's quite a few of them For instance Aurora solar was all all software AI Software and AI and data science based we have a number of others that are software based as well Another company we supported is called citrine informatics they use AI to invent materials on a computer and You know to sort of pretty new materials and then we have a variety of others that work on in the climate space on on the impact of changing weather on you know agriculture We have people who look at flooding or again all based on software. So there's I would say Probably half of them are half of them are a third of them are software Your biggest value company is the software base I have one for each of you Both on the innovation transfer program in your life journey What is something that you didn't know when you started all these journeys that you now know is really really important What you didn't know is gonna be crucial Really a key thing that you learned or still learning at this point who wants to go first When we started the program, I remember we had a sort of a goal Which was oh We we think one thing we need to shoot for is a hundred projects funded and they raise a hundred million dollars Well, we just reached the hundred Projects, but we blew through the hundred million dollars and I think that the surprise to me was how resourceful the students are the teams are and also how much support despite in the early days in 2013 clean tech was a dirty word and Yet the companies that we supported in that first batch have been extremely successful and two of them One of them had the name solar in its name, which was like the dirtiest word at the time And it's become a successful company. So I think what surprised me was the support They got from investors and people externally But also the the sort of the drive and the ingenuity and the passion of these students There were so many of them that I thought were just going to fail and not going to work out and they found a way So I would say that's it's it's a it's a positive message to anybody who feels intimidated by doing something like I'll share one lessons. I think very helpful to me. I just also gave a seminar in known visa To energy science engineering the students and faculty then having a lunch with them. I asked them What do you worry the most? They gave me all type of stuff. I look look at that. I say well at the end This is what I can get out of this. You guys worry about Uncertainty you need to enjoy uncertainty right there Uncertainty means you are still young. They have an infinite possibility once everything is certain It's getting a little bit late. So so enjoy uncertainty being an entrepreneur is well You are hungry for money all the time because your company can just like burn out tomorrow It's always on that urgency So there's a lot of uncertainty keep coming in you to enjoy that and then you see your uncertainty can explore all the Possibility if you can do that. Well, you'll be very successful And computational methods are I think one of the constraints on doing a better job on uncertainty At least on the analytics night any other questions in the audience I would say we we've actually relied on Both E for doing a lot of energy seminars over the year and Brian for actually not only doing some energy seminars But giving us really good candidates for some of these people who have come through the Innovation ecosystem including two of the four you showed and coming back and talking about their journeys through four or five year process Between when they are just making their pitches to when they're actually raising these big big big sums of money So I encourage people who are interested in those to go on the energy seminar website and we have pretty good recordings of Probably 20 or 25 including about half of them from Brian at this point So any of your questions? Homes I was going to call on homes just because I love to put her on the spot Thank you both for a breathtaking bird's-eye view of what Stanford has been able to Develop in an emergent fashion over the last decade. I'm interested in your casting a vision into the next Decade we have just launched a new school. We have this unprecedented level of faculty involvement. We have all of the support that We have sought for so long for the ecopreneur area What do you see for Stanford's innovation ecosystem and energy in the next decade? I Can give you maybe one of the most important real I learned in the past two to three years that I think It's already shaping my own research program my lab But I can see broadly in the whole school and the sustainability of salary to hopefully the whole campus It's keeping in mind energy problem is so big Anything you want to do having a big impact globally needs to think about scale first Since we speed Well, let's just let me just give you example. Maybe that's too abstract. Let's take CO2 capture as an example And we're talking about 40 50 gigaton per year CO2 right here And to have a relevant to have a dent you've got to talk about gigaton level Automatically if you think about gigaton level many idea will not work anymore And you need to start with something that has the possibility of scaling That actually change some of my research thinking that will also change down the road many projects Stanford through sustainability or cell rate I Think that mindset of changing scalable change to such gigantic scale giga level Will should be shaping the whole campus so for the future what One one thing that I would like to see is that problems that aren't typically fundable through today's entrepreneurship Resources find a way to get funded and I'll just show you I had a slide here that I was going to show These are some of the projects we've supported the first one is degraded cost restoration of degraded coastal ecosystems by involving local communities and creating You know creating a paradise there really a sort of a real Environmentally friendly paradise Neil Spackman who runs that project if you ever go to YouTube you should watch his Report on the al-baida project he did in Saudi Arabia where he turned the desert into a flourishing garden It's unbelievable But getting funding for something there like this is really hard and so you have to come up with some creative business models and his is working with local communities to Increase the value of land because if you improve the land its value increases. So how do you then? Utilize that and leverage that to get funding In a way that is that is not predatory or exploitative Bush rubber tiny she has a company called Marvel modular that makes You know net zero energy modular housing for refugees The average stay of a refugee in a refugee camp is 17 years the housing there provided today lasts for three and So she came up with this really wonderful Modular system where you have students in the mechanical engineering capstone project working with her and they're Manufacturing these in Jordan. I mean Jordan has maybe more than almost any other country has an enormous proportion of refugee as part of their population and Giving them decent housing is you know an imperative, but these are hard things to get funding for you may get some Some foundation money some grant money you might get some money from the UN But really unlike these unicorns and all this shopping app companies. It's really hard to get Funding for something that's so You know fundamental Sarah Sarah Johnson has a company. That's setting up, you know an exchange for repairing electronics in Africa Again something that's not going to be a multi-billion dollar business But I mean think of the benefits of this thing where you sort of how to create a circular economy you repair you reuse So I would like to see how my hope is that people recognize in the future that there are Very valuable things that today may be considered unfundable that should be funded Brian for an inspirational talk and lots of food for the future We'll have to have you come back in a couple of years and tell us how it all is starting to work out And I'm sure it will be even more exciting. So thanks very much