 It must be dinnertime in Burlington, 616. It is still bright and sunny here in our place. We are located in Washington State. When I say we, it's the firm to leave the consult. And each of us will individually introduce ourselves in a bit. This is lovely. We are seeing that there are 33 participants on the screen. But sometime I know that there are multiple people through the screen. And for those of you turning on your video, very much appreciate it. It makes me feel like I'm actually talking to human beings, not just little screens. Although the two-dimensional screen is a resource, many parts of the world does not have. So we're grateful for that. All right. So it's about three minutes past. And we have a lot. And I want to honor the time of the people who are here. So let's just give just one more minute to frame up. And maybe we can begin after that. Yes, Tyler has put in the chat box for the interpreters. If you can raise your hand, it's not showing US interpreters. Would you be so kind to raise your actual physical hand or your digital hand? That would be great. I know that Mr. Samporian is speaking and interpreting for us from Lake Gala. Super shall I apologize. Any other interpreter? Can you please raise your hand? Yeah, Abdulahi Hassan. OK, Mr. Hassan. What language do you want me to be interpreting for us? Well, I need to underline my language. My language? Fantastic. And I see that Alicia is trying to say something. So I'm sorry. I thought you were asking me. That's why I responded. So I'm sorry. Harris, you're on mute. No problem. Are you an interpreter, Alicia? Yes, I am. What language? Quirundi. Quirundi? Yes. Fantastic. All right, so we have Lingala, Mai Mai, Quirundi. And any other interpreter on the screen? Carol, why don't you go ahead? Carol and Linda are there, so why don't you both? I'm going to ask people who are not speaking to mute themselves. If not, I will not be very kind, and I will just go ahead and mute you, OK? Just so that we have good hearing going on around here. With that, why don't I just hand it over to the agenda items to go through? And then that includes our introduction. Again, if you are an interpreter, it would be great to either communicate to Skyler that you are an interpreter. And then that you please mention what language you are going to be interpreting. Let's see here. Megan has let everybody know that TownMeetingTV is also here streaming live to the youtube.com TownMeetingTV community channel, OK? So you're all local stars today on the Town Community TV channel, all right? And then can folks not speaking please mute themselves, which we have successfully managed to do. Again, thank you and welcome. So with that, let's hand it over to Skyler, I believe. Yeah, hi. Welcome, everybody. I'll make this quick so we can get to the meat of this meeting, so to speak, in the stars, which is our fabulous consulting team at Delete the Consult. I just want to thank everybody that's here. It looks like we've got 45 participants, and we'll continue to keep an eye on that and let people in as they join. I hope that tonight is a great night for our city as we continue to work towards community visioning of an equitable public safety apparatus for Burlington that meets all of our needs, all of our priorities, and keeps all of us safe. So I know that it can take a lot of courage to speak about such sometimes controversial and very deeply personal issues in front of our neighbors and community members, but all of the courage that you all are showing by showing up tonight is what's going to get us to the finish line on this issue and creating a safe community for all of us. So I want to thank you all for coming, and you can continue to email me or send me chats on the chat room if you have any concerns or need any adjustments. And with that, I'll hand it back to Talitha. Thank you, Skyler. My name is Karima Edwards, and I'm with Talitha Consult. I'm the project manager on the Talitha side for this project and this undertaking that you all together are going through with your city. And we're just really excited and humbled to be here. I will let my partner, Karis, introduce herself in a moment and our other team members, Jordan and Sean. But we just want to give you an overview of what you're going to expect during this process of the agenda and how long you might be here. But I just want to say that the most important thing is that we are really here to hear from you and to listen to you. As Skyler mentioned, we know that it takes courage to speak honestly and express your concerns. But we want this to be a safe place, a safe space for you, but also a very brave space where you feel comfortable doing that. So we are just here to listen and learn. So what you can expect for tonight, we're going to have two different sections of this meeting where we'll have a breakout. And the first breakout session will be 20 minutes. And we'll talk about what it means to have a safe and healthy Burlington community. And then after that, we'll have a short break. We'll come back and then we'll have a short break. And then we'll go into the next session, what will be also 20 minutes. And we'll dig down a little bit deeper about what that means, how that looks, what your vision is. And then we'll come back and discuss what we learned in our separate groups for 10 minutes. And then we'll close out. So it sounds like it's not going to be very long, but there's been very robust conversation in our last opportunities that we had to engage with your community. So we just hope that we get to hear a lot from you. And I'm going to pass it over to Karis for a second. And then we want to hear some things about you all too. So we're going to send out a link in a moment so that we can hear who's here and what some of your background is. So, Karis. Thank you. With that, I'm going to show a visual of what Karima just said. I'm going to have a few seconds for you all to look through the agenda and then we'll come back to introducing ourselves. So, Jordan, please share the screen specifically the agendas section. And can you make it much bigger? With that, I would like to leave the team member to show their video. And because this time is for you, I'm just going to do all the introduction. All my team members can speak for themselves, but we don't want to take up so much time with introduction. So, my name is Karis Kninn. I am a first, in Burlington term, I'm a new American originally from the country of Burma, Myanmar, and I immigrated to the United States 20 years ago. And I speak multiple languages and I call myself a regional planner with a master's degree in regional planning from University of Washington and an international affairs, which I call James Bond, international affairs degree from Seattle Pacific University. I have over 15 years of experience as a public innovator working in different public. I call myself civil servant doing innovative work within the public agencies. Two years ago, I launched Talitha Consult with the intention of bringing in multi-media and multicultural, multilingual and interdisciplinary professionals from all over the United States. And as you will hear, that our team is from all over the US. And with that, I want to introduce you to our project manager, Karima Edwards, who spoke earlier. She is also the chief of staff for our firm. Karima is a legal scholar and has multiple master's degree. One of them is emergency planning and she has worked in parks and recreations and as well as Seattle Police Department and she is currently in Florida. Jordan Uomoto is our chaplain for the firm as well as the chaplain for a hospital here in Seattle, Washington. And he also facilitates part-time for Talitha and his inquiry-based facilitation skill is unparallel and I am so excited that City of Burlington will get to, he get to serve the City of Burlington and City of Burlington get to experience his service. Joining me is also our young adult ambassador Talitha Consult's young adult intern, Sean Liu, Sean, will you wave your hand? Sean is the voice of youth in our firm and he will be supporting with multiple things and we are delighted to have youth representation today as well. With that, Karima mentioned earlier that we also want to know a bit about you. We also want each of you to know a little bit about each other. Though we may come on the same screen, though we may live under the same sky and though we may share the same city or zip code or whatnot, we are also very unique and we have different life experiences as well. So with that, Karima, what do you have for us? Five places of the link. There's a Survey Mucky link in the chat and if you can just take a brief moment to answer the questions on the link. It'll tell us where your background is. It'll tell us about your background. It'll tell us who's joining you for this meeting and just some questions that we thought would be interesting for all of us to know. So if you want to just take a quick second and click on the link in the chat, you can find it at the bottom of your screen. And Karima, for those people who are joining with like a phone device or if they're not able to take the survey, what would you suggest? They should be able to take the survey. It should be mobile friendly. Perfect. And we will be sharing this information with you once we enter into one session. Leela asked, could you explain the second question, Karima, about how many people joining from the Zoom? I don't think I understand it. So if you have multiple people in your space, wherever you are who are also looking on with you and joining from your home, your office, wherever you are, you can put more than one. I think the selection goes all the way up to four or five. So. Excellent. And thank you for showing that two thumbs up. If you're able to turn on your video, I encourage you to do so. You don't have to, but it's very helpful for facilitators because that way we're like, we're not talking to just little black boxes. We're interacting with real human beings. And 60%, I learned somewhere in my communications class, 60% of our communication is non-verbal, right? Whether or not Karis is bulging her eyes, leaning back, you know, those all kind of communicate to us or yawning in that matter or stretching in that matter, right? Fantastic. So Karima will tabulate what you are putting in by show of hands. If you are done, perhaps you can just say done in the chat box or yeah, what do you want Karima? Do you want done in the chat box? Yeah, that'll be fine. I think we've gotten plenty. We have over 30 responses. We have 31 responses right now. Fantastic. Yeah. So I'll give you all maybe 60 more seconds. Oh, where is this? So are you looking for the link in the chat? So let's put it back in the chat because now that people are putting done, everything got superseded. And interpreters, feel free to slow us down. I just want for people who just entered in to know that there's interpretation for Lingala. Mai Mai. Hiorunbi. And our Lingala speaker also speaks French and Swahili as well. So if you are meeting interpretation, feel free to just type to me or to Skyler. That would be great. If the interpreters live in the city of Burlington, feel free to fill this out. This is your community. You are just representing multiple identities today. Skyler also wants you to know that just press the interpreter button at the bottom if you are an interpreter. Are you ready for results? Let's show the results. Let me just share my screen. So can everybody see a screen that says survey monkey, REIV, public safety town hall? Yeah. Okay, awesome. So it looks like for the first question, which best describes your relationship to the city of Burlington? Most people are residents. It looks like we have some business owners and some people that are representing, it's like five people are representing a community-based organization. No students here. And then we have other. But out of all the participants, we have 28 residents. Let's see what others says. Quick responses to the right. Oh, thank you. So it looks like we have a state representative, facilitator, licensed mental health counselor, an elected official. I'm not sure what BUI means. Next, how many people are joining via your Zoom? Most people, it's just themselves. And then we have someone that has two. Looks like a few of you. How many languages are spoken in your home? So the majority, 27, have one language. And then we have three with two and one person that has three. Excellent. How long have most of the participants lived in Burlington? So less than one year. Thank you for showing up. And one to three years is one. Six people, three to five years. Three people, five to 10 years. Seven people, 10 to 20 years. Wow. Four people, 20 to 30 years. Nine of you have been in Burlington for 30 to 40 years. And one more than 40 years. Wow. We have some longstanding Burlington residents with us. And then for the question, are you a first generation New American? We have one person that is. Keras, was that you? Absolutely not. Okay, and then we have 32 people who are not New Americans. So thank you, everybody, because it's good to know we have a very diverse group of folks in the room. Fantastic. So I'm gonna have you stop sharing your screen and then Jordan to pull up the screen for mural. And let's get started. How many of you thought that was a helpful thing to know about who your neighbors are, who was participating in the chat room by the show of hands or thumbs up? Wasn't that helpful to see? Just so that we are aware that, you know, we interface with different people, different connection to the community. So our roles today as facilitators, can you zoom in a little bit, Jordan? And can you read the roles? Oops, perfect. Okay. So I'll have you read the facilitators and meeting participants roles, Jordan. All right. So the roles for facilitators during this meeting will be to guide the group through conversation. Of course, we're gonna be talking about some things that might be difficult or some things that might be of high interest to folks, but we will help guide that conversation. We'll stay focused on the agenda and achieving our outcomes. We'll use ground rules to assist the group and for you all for the meeting participants, we just invite you to openly share your input and listen to the input of others. And as meeting participants, we just ask that you openly hear input and listen to the input shared by others. And we have some agreements and instead of reading it aloud, can you just show that and we're gonna pause so people can profit from that? Yeah. And interpreters, if you can just go point by point and just interpret it directly for the people who may be listening to you. Starting from seek first to understand then to be understood. These are agreements. These are not rules. And I just wanna emphasize the importance of using I statement. And so I'm sure we are a group of people who have experienced a lot and have a lot of opinions, especially for topics that are near and dear to our hearts. Oliver, shh. If we can just stick to saying, I think from my experience, I observe, I suspect then you are speaking for yourself, okay? With that, Jordan, can you shrink the screen and let's break into two groups? This is how we're gonna do it. We're gonna, we have two questions before you and the facilitators will guide you how to do it. I would like to ask people, we just gonna randomly split two groups because of the language survey that we have, we probably do not need to do what we had discussed, Jordan and Karima. So when you are randomly assigned to two groups, just join it and then we will go from there. Sounds good? All right, Sean, you, can you just split us randomly? Make sure that Jordan and Karima are in the same room, please. I need to stop messing with it because Sean is controlling it. I will stop. Hands off, Sean's saying, hands off, Ferris. Okay. Fun time to you all. Yes. Fun time. Literally, get those legs. I'm telling you, no! And then I got moved over, so. From Florida to Vermont. The cyberspace. Sean, I'm sorry, forgive me. I moved Karima to this room. Can you move Karima to where Jordan is? Okay. I'll stop touching. Let me see your hands. Great. Great, great, great. Okay, from the scale of one to five, five being, I'm super energetic and one being like, oh my God, let's get to business. Where are you? Put in the chat. Where are you? Two or yeah, two? Okay, okay. Two, oh my God, let's get to business. All right, all right. Three, Emma. All right, here we go. Two questions before you. I'm gonna have my mural up. I think we are group one. We're just gonna call ourselves group one. Sharing screen right now. Okay, pretty self-explanatory folks. The very first questions that we want you to answer and you can raise your hand. Sean is paying attention to who raised hands first and then answer the first question. What's on your heart? What's on your mind? What comes through you? What does safe community mean to you? Any brave soul that wants to go first. Raise your hand or unmute yourself and start speaking. As you speak, I will type. Neighbors knowing each other. Neighbors knowing each other, what? Okay, so I'm gonna dig in a little bit. What would it take to know each other well? Let's start by saying hello and talking to each other. Being friendly would be fair to say, Liz, and not afraid of being friendly to each other. What about next person? That's a mama calling a son. Easy as money, easy as money. Do we have volunteers? Yeah, just to build on that because I was thinking along the same thing. Neighbors and community members looking out for each other and paying attention to each other. Love that word, paying attention. Many times we go by thinking our own thoughts. Not seeing who is walking past us, right? There's no right or wrong answer, people. This is what's come to your hearts, your minds, and thoughts. So let's keep it going. We have... I would like to speak. Yes, we have 10 minutes per question. So whoever wants to speak, please go. I'm thinking that a safe community is one where everyone within the community feels safe. So elaborate on that, feeling safe. Where they're not afraid to walk within their community, drive within their community, be within their community. And that's true for everyone in the community and not just those who are white. And maybe feeling safe to ask for help in that same box, maybe. Karris, are you ready for the next one? I didn't want to just start speaking. Am I saying your name right? Yes, Karris is correct. Karris, okay. Thank you for asking. Thank you. I think I love the idea of knowing your neighbors, but I also think that if there is an emergency, being able to call for support from professionals who are well equipped to deal with whatever emergency and knowing that calling on a city authority will not involve guns, right now. Calling 911 means a very high likelihood that people with guns, aka the police, will show up. And that doesn't make me feel safe. Okay, cool, let me ask you this. What would make you feel safe if the current system of police responding to a 911 call doesn't make you feel safe? What is, what do you envision otherwise? I think like a triage system where if it's a fire, the fire department comes, if it's a medical emergency, EMTs come without police, or the police don't have guns, I think is also a great step, first A-step. And then if it's something like a mental health emergency, that then there are mental health professionals who can respond to that. And yeah, but there are just different agencies who are not connected to the police, who are equipped to handle a variety of emergencies. Sounds good. In the previous conversations, what we have heard is differentiated 911 response, differentiated based on the issue. So would it be fair to paraphrase what you said that way? Yes. Correct. What's next? Sean, do you see hands up and are you picking tally or does a brave soul want to unmute and talk? This is Peggy again. In keeping with what was just said, I would love to have education for community members around what resources are available so that people know how to contact which organization, if they don't need the police, you don't call the police per se, if there's a different number for these, if it's all under one system, that's fantastic. But if not, then we need some community education. So Peggy, I'm gonna ask you a follow-up question. So if you don't need the police, don't call the police. So right now, you are referencing to calling the police through 911, correct? Yes. So through 911, what if one does not, so in the system, let's say education, public education does happen, but the onus is on the resident to determine whether or not a police is needed or the onus, who carries more burden in your mind, in the new world that you just described where public is educated. Right. I think it would be good for the public to understand how the system works, whatever the new system is. Ideally, it would be great if we had a one number to call and then whoever is answering that number understands from what information they're given who to connect to, whether it's mental health, supports EMT, fire department, police, whoever. Sounds good. Who else? Who else who hasn't spoken, want to speak? So I will give three more minutes for this question because the next question is interconnected. So if another person wants to just answer safe question or a healthy community, please unmute yourself or raise your hand. I'm sorry, I cannot see you raise your hand unless Sean Liu, will you tell me does anybody have their hands raised? Jeff is next. Okay, please. Hi, I'm Jeff Nick. I'm really representing the church tree marketplace and we feel that our job downtown is to make everyone feel created an environment that's clean, safe, and fun and welcoming to everybody. And kind of a different turn here to speak about public safety. We're hearing from a lot of our employees, especially female employees, they do not feel safe, especially if they get off of a late shift and they actually welcome the police presence and that makes them feel safe. It's sometimes, if you come downtown on a Saturday afternoon, everybody feels safe and everything's wonderful, but there are times when it doesn't feel safe and having a police presence is very helpful. Jeff, earlier I speak of using I statement. And so I'm gonna think that you have employees, female employees who have spoken to you that they do not feel safe. Is that why you say they welcome the police and they don't feel safe? Well, I'm hearing from a lot of folks that work on church street. So I hear from, okay. So they welcome the police in what way? Police doing what? Just having a presence on the street. I mean, I'm getting a little off topic here, but we deal with a lot of things on the street that are really quality of life issues or just speeding bicycles down the street, speeding skateboards. There are people that are intoxicated at times. They're shoplifters. So shoplifting is a widespread on church street. A lot of these things, and we also have musicians that need to be licensed. And oftentimes they're not licensed and they're playing music loudly and bothering people. I haven't figured out a way and maybe we'll learn something today, but who enforces these quality of life rules that we need on the street to keep a clean, safe, and fun environment? That's really what I think we're looking for or I'm looking for if I need to use the word I. Thank you for that. Yeah, so I really like, so who enforces quality of life issues to ensure safe? And did you say quiet or safe and something environment? Clean, safe, and fun. Okay, clean, safe, and fun. Thank you, Jeff. Anybody else who wants to speak to, I know that there are a few business owners and my camera is switching back and forth, so thank you. Sean, do we have any hands up? Again, what does healthy community mean to you? You can also talk about clean, safe, and fun. This is Emma. I guess I would add, so I think that in a healthy community would look like efforts to get to the root cause of problems that could make people feel unsafe rather than punishing the symptoms of whatever issue it is, really understanding and tackling that root cause issue. So Emma, as facilitators, we are not to assume and so can you name what are the root causes from your understanding? Yeah, so just the discussion we were just having kind of I was thinking about, so we have problems with drug addiction and houselessness in Burlington. And so those are two specific issues and if you think about shoplifting, there's always a root cause that leads to that behavior. And so I think a healthy community looks like trying to understand those root causes and tackle them instead of the human being that's associated with the behavior. How would one tackle those root causes? Again, no right, wrong answer and I'm asking Emma and Emma's heart and mind, okay? Yeah, so I think that how would they be tackled? Well, so it depends on the problem, but for example, if lack of resources is the root cause of shoplifting and selling drugs or even drug addiction eventually. But if lack of resources is the root cause of the problem, then figuring out social programs so that those behaviors are not necessary for that person to survive, that kind of thing. Or if it's drug addiction, then providing the services that are needed if that person desires to get rid of their addiction, houselessness, the same thing. So I guess say social programs, I think that the people and I put it in quotes but the issues that make us feel unsafe, for example, on Church Street are a reflection of our community, not of that person that's making us feel unsafe. It's a failure of our community to support those people. I hear that you have a desire to see more investment in social programs. Yes. Yes, Jeff, you raised your hand. I'm not sure if there's anybody else. Sean Liu who raised their hands before Jeff. Go ahead, Jeff. Okay, I mean, there are those deep concerns that forces somebody to do the things they do. We're dealing with some more mundane things like speeding bicycles and playing music without a license. And those things, I'm not sure how else you tell somebody, we've got signs up and down the street to say, please don't ride your bicycle, yet we see 10 people an hour, I've witnessed it, up and down the street at a fast pace. One almost struck us baby stroll the other day. So there are some things that need to be taken care of by somebody in authority more immediately than worrying about the root causes. I mean, you can't ignore those root causes and we should as a community deal with that too, but we've got some real immediate issues that need to be dealt with quickly. Thank you, Jeff. I have put that in there. I wanna make sure that I get the presentation right. You did say we can't ignore those root causes, but we also have immediate immediate issues need to be dealt quickly, correct? Correct. Anybody wants to chime in? Sean, how are we doing in terms of time? We are dedicating 20 minutes to this topic, both topics. We're doing good, we have like five minutes. I'll at least show that. So those who haven't spoken, I would like to encourage you to say a few words. What is missing still? I know that there are a lot of residents who've been in Burlington for quite a while and there are a lot of changes. And there are also those who have lived here for less than a year. I also wanna hear from you. So I did raise my hand a couple of times. I just did not want to unmute because I have kids in the house. So whenever you want me to let me know. Please, please, I'm all ears for you. I came here as an interpreter, did not think much about the city hall. I was just here to come to help, but there was no one. So just I think for me as a community, it's where diversity is really, really celebrated. What I mean by that is that I've been, I immigrated in America, I've been here for like six years. And people who love diversity, they love to speak at the languages, but really within themselves. It's not there, they're still fearful of other peoples just because of how they look like or their neighbor I've seen, I've been participate in meetings where they would be like, oh, we are not safe just because these people came here or these people are moving this side. So for me, I think a safer community is where people go, what can I say, judge other people from how they look like, but just the character of what the people are there doing. Because so briefly is that they really want diversity, but also they push away diversity, which I do not understand. Okay, so there's a lot to unpack there. Alicia, right? May I have your name? Yes, Alicia. Alicia? Okay, there's a lot to unpack there. So you see what I'm gonna repeat what I've heard from you. So you can mute yourself while you're listening to me. Okay, so Alicia, thank you for speaking loud. And I hear that you are first generation, new American, you immigrated six years ago. You have experienced that people are, your experience is that people in the United States welcome diversity on the surface level, but you feel that deep down in people's heart, there's still deep rooted biases maybe or prejudices. And you want a safer community to you means that people actually embrace the differences, embracing it, not just on the surface celebrating it. Am I hearing you correctly or am I putting words in your mouth? Please correct me. That's perfect, yes, you did. Thank you, all right. Harris, we're out of time. How else wants to speak to that or felt a similar or made a similar observation? 20 minutes is up. So hold on to that thought. And Sean, will you end the breakout session for both groups? Yes. We have 58 seconds. So you all can just stare at the type or someone can speak quickly. It's up to you. Hi everyone. So I just want to ask from one person from our group and another person from Akrima and Jordan's group, how was it like to just speak your mind and your heart hopefully in a brave and safe way? Anybody from my group? How was it like? What do you think? Do you feel rushed? Okay, this is a quiet group. So I'm going to ask Commissioner Hart, you were in my group. What was your observation? Did you say heart for heart? We do this every time. I'm sorry. Heart with a T or connect your heart with a P. I think both of you were in my group, I'm not sure. Commissioner Hart with a T. I was really grateful for folks to speak. I mean, because we're doing this work on this, I really wanted to listen instead of speaking to it. So I'm very grateful for, I think we could have gone on for 20 more minutes, but if that's not a criticism of the time allotted, I just think there was plenty to hear and I'm grateful to those who were willing to share. Thank you. And I'm particularly grateful that people are willing to live in social tensions and be respectful. That's something that I'm learning and wishing that more of the cities are like Burlington. We truly have conversation, very respectful way. Jordan, do you want to call anybody from your group? Yes, it's Angie. The person who's vocalist is Angie was on mute and it looked like they were trying to speak. So I'm going to see if we can unmute them. I don't want to speak. No, I'm done. I'm good. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else from Jordan and Karima's team? How was it like? Any feedback or? Seems like this meeting has been going through. Okay. So with that, let's do a report out then. Jordan or Karima, why don't you share a synthesis of what you heard from your group and however you want to do it, go for it. Jordan, since you have the screen, do you mind just kind of giving us a brief overview? We did like run short on time because Cheryl was speaking. We had to cut it short, but we got some really good. Don't share screen, just give a report out. Yeah, people did comment, it did feel short because there's just so much we could talk about. But people definitely talked about the value of trust, not only between people and neighbors, but also between the police and the community. People talked about valuing people over property. And then a lot, I noticed a lot of people talked about the need for health services, whether that was for housing, for healthcare, for education, all of those different things. Thanks. There was a lot of talk about connection, I think, between neighbors, whether that was in public spaces, checking in with the people who live around you. And then also, I think several comments about unarmed helpers, whether that was unarmed police or unarmed professional healthcare workers or unarmed people who are trained in de-escalation, but just that being a request or a desire for public health and safety. Fantastic. What was resonating with me is just there were, it seemed like it just came back to humanity and recognizing the need for us all to be connected to that we're all human and should treat each other as such. So that was just my last little piece. Great, great. So we have a fairly quiet group, I will say. And I did an energy level assessment and most of my people, five is like, I'm ready to dig in. Most of them are in two and three. And so given the two and three energy, we got quite a lot of answers. There's two levels, safe and healthy community. In terms of safe community, we talked about, just like Jordan said, the interpersonal relationship with neighbors. Feeling safe, having the friendliness and feeling a sense of looking out for each other and helping each other. There's also the connection with a bigger societal level of safety. Talks about social problems that could be root causes of some of the social problems that we see, whether it be houselessness, drug addiction or certain behaviors that prompt people to feel unsafe. And we also have another person speak of yes, while it is important to address social issues and how it impacts individual, there's also day-to-day things that make people safe, like not getting run over by a speeding bike or not getting run over by a skateboarder. And so there's also individual who wonders who is going to do that enforcement. And we also have a representative from Church Street who talks about police presence does serve as a deterrent for potential crime related or potential safety threats out there. So if I am not summarizing effectively, I apologize, but as you saw, all your voices, your input has been captured. And you might be wondering, what do they do? They're just pretty and colorful. Yes, they're pretty and colorful, but we take all those data and we put it in qualitative data analysis, no name mentioned, and we make sure that we try to synthesize using sound social science methodology to extract out themes that we hear from you, okay? So with that, what is on our agenda next? I'm just hoping it is a break. Is it a break? Oh my goodness. Let's take a 10 minute break. And I need everybody's help with that because as you know, we have another session. So 10 minutes will be 720 from all of your, all of you out there, right? May I please ask who, those who are able to type in 720 in the chat box so that we know we need to come back at 720, okay? See you all. I will type in 420 PST, see you all soon. I usually play music to bring everybody back together, but this time I just need it all 10 minutes to myself. So for those of you who came back, thank you. Good to see you, Mary, good to see you. I will say, I do grieve that we cannot be doing this in person. I kept telling my team that we shouldn't get too cozy with COVID-19. I don't want this to be the normal to be perfectly honest with you because nothing can replace human connections. And that's what I also heard Karima was saying about conversation of humanity, human dignity. And so with that, we will continue to dimensionally. If you're able, if you turn on the screen, that's always nice. Good to see you, Frank McClellan, Leah, Jeff. Thank you, thank you. And I love that Carolyn is like somewhere out on her porch, I think with the, is that right? You have a comfy blanket, fantastic, fantastic, great. Okay, I'm gonna show that our conversation earlier is not one and done, okay? All of you are co-creating safe and healthy environment and this process is not one and done. With that, what I'd like to draw your attention to is not just the next part of the process, but that there is a way that you can send us your comments and complete thoughts. You can say, oh my God, Kara is Jordan or Karima. Like I had a half-baked thought, but I have more thoughts. Will you email, just title it Burlington, connect at TalibahConsults.com. And if you wanna stay connected with the process, which I'm gonna show what this process is about. So earlier, Skyler talks about Burlington having hired Talibah and also another consulting firm to have this conversation, what it means to reimagine public safety. This is what we have done. The Joint Committee, some of the Joint Committee members are present today to obtain public input on the needs, vision and values. And then we have hosted two stakeholder meetings and stakeholders are identified and chosen and invited, involved by the Joint Committee. And we are also doing, part of the stakeholders is you today with the public town hall. This is the second one in which we are facilitating. And ignore the dates, please. They're just really way off. And the facilitation and conversation will be followed by a public survey, which I am really hoping that each and every one of you participate and also share your neighbors and community members to participate. And we'll let you know when the surveys come out and we will ensure that we are looking into our communication channels that we advertise about this public survey. And after the public survey, we will gather community input and we'll present the themes, analysis that we find from the surveys and also from all the public engagement we have done to the Joint Committee. And of course, we're hoping that the findings would be helpful for the city of Burlington, not just for this year or next year, but for your long-term visioning as well, okay? So that is just a process scope. And if you wanna stay connected with the process milestone, I'm gonna put this little link in the chat box right now. You can put your name and your email and we will let you know, hey, here's the survey or that, hey, Talitha's gonna show up at Joint Committee next Thursday to represent the themes. You'll be notified by the consultant team, okay? And so it is the city who is managing notification of public activities. In addition to that, if you want to be notified, you can also get on that list. And that list is managed by Talitha, okay? So with that, let's go to the next phase. Any questions, I do wanna make sure, I don't want everybody to feel like they have to be silent. It's a small group. So any questions so far? Let me stop sharing my screen. Any questions, concerns? Really? Wow. Okay. I have a question. Can I ask a question? Thank you. Thank you, yes. I'm just curious if there was or will be an effort to involve students and youth in these conversations? Is there another one? I don't know. We did the poll just to have an idea and it is very revealing to me that nobody checked students. And so that is, there is a student. I am a student, not sure why I didn't show up from Ava. So Ava, you are one of 46 screens, right? And so thank you for your representation and it matters. But Liz, I will tell you, this is telling to us that we may have to do a targeted outreach. And perhaps it could look like, again, I will have to think it through, but from our experience, it could look like targeted outreach specifically to the school district, perhaps a focus group or a group survey. So thank you for asking. And Ava, thank you for speaking up. Anybody else? Fantastic, okay. So with that, let's see what the second phase is, okay? So I'm sharing my screen. Now, there is question three and four specifically asked about Jordan, would you unmute yourself and ask the questions for us? Yeah, so getting more specifically to Burlington and to your context and where you all are, what is Burlington doing well in terms of public safety? What are the things that you've noticed that have been brought to your attention that you experience that Burlington is doing well? And then the second question that we'll be going into is what needs to improve in terms of public safety? What could Burlington be doing better? What are your thoughts, your ideas, anything in that direction? So for this, we are going to do a 15 minute of that. And then after that, we're gonna do the prioritizing. So the second question, question number four, okay? Where does Burlington need to improve in terms of public safety? I want it to be, again, I, we are hired to do that. So I'm gonna speak and do my job here. I would like for this to be a generative process in which you all vision, right? Do not hold back and say this and that and get your visions out. And then question four is when we categorize and then we kind of prioritize, okay? And so we're gonna be like, okay, priority number one is A, B and C, you know, apples first, bananas next and orange the third. And again, it is you who's speaking for yourself. It is not deciding funding for next year. I just wanna be very honest, but it is for us to better understand what you think are the priorities for your community. Sounds good. All right, so with that, Sean Liu, could you break us into two groups? So see you all in 30 minutes. Most of you are in the same group before, right? And if you were new to this group, welcome Carolyn and the doggie. I don't remember you, the first group. It's good to see you, Leah. I remember you. Did you, were you at the NPA meeting? Fantastic. NPA meeting and the last town hall meeting too. Oh, I adore you. Thank you for showing up. You are gonna be our ambassador to let the people get involved with the process. It's gotten much smoother. Thank you. That is so good to hear. Yeah. All right, so folks, I am going to have you speak. And for those of you who've spoken before, fantastic. You can speak again, but let's also be mindful that there might be those who wanna speak. And so let's start with what is Burlington doing well in terms of public safety? Who wants to go? Sean, can you pay attention to the hands raised? Any brave souls who wants to go first? T is going. Yes, thank you. I'm T, I go by he, him pronouns. Well, in Burlington, there's a group of community members who have a vast network of mutual aid programs that contribute to helping our lower income community friends as well as showing solidarity and making sure people have access to programs and social networks that they need. But this is a group of individuals with next to none financial support from the city. T, would you speak more to that network? Is there the details, right? Is it a local network by resident network? Or is it a nonprofit? Speak more about that network of community program? Yeah, I mean, it's just a group of individuals who really want to show solidarity for the community. Like it's not really, it's like, yes, like some nonprofit programs may get involved, but yes, Brian Sheena nailed it. It's a group of individuals, just residents, nonprofit involvement partially, but it's not run by a city or a city or a nonprofit, right? No nonprofit and not city run. Okay, great, so that's, okay. Anybody else? What is Burlington doing well? So what would be helpful for me is just like what T did, you know, just say, this is not a city program. This is a neighborhood run program and that would be very helpful. Anybody else? I don't know if this is Carolyn. I don't know if this fits under this category, but there are some things that the Burlington police do really well that folks may not be aware of that other communities aren't quite so fortunate to have. One of the things is we have a victim advocate that works at the police department and she is amazing. Her name is Mary McAllister and really no other police departments that I know of have an outreach person like that that can help people who are victims of crime. Usually they're housed in other places, you know, not necessarily in the police department, but she's particularly effective because she has that kind of access and she's been there a really long time and she's terrific at her job. So that's one thing that I think of that makes Burlington special and something that's near and dear to my heart is Burlington police have had a specialized domestic violence officer which very, very few communities in Vermont have and we've had it for a while. I think it's been on the chopping block with all of the cuts that have been made at the police department. And I'm really hoping that that position doesn't get cut because that's a position that, you know, domestic violence cases are really complicated and they require a special personality and somebody that has the time and invest the time in doing follow-up work and also really gets to know the community. And so I think that officer position is extremely effective to have someone specially assigned to that area. It kind of fit within the community policing model which I also thought Burlington had made some great strides but somebody earlier talked about having officers out to be sort of a presence. And I think that that is helpful to public safety but it's even more helpful if they have the ability to know their community, really know people and get to know them. And I think the domestic violence officer is one example of that kind of position but I think community policing can be extremely effective when officers really know their community and know the people who live in them. I have a follow-up question for you, Carolyn. So one is clarification. The victim advocate position is also an officer position or not? No, it's not an officer. I believe that she does have training and being an officer but that is not her position. She is an advocate. And I thought I saw some kind of chat. I don't know how to read this chat part but yeah, there's lots of advocates in the community that work in crisis and things like that but I think there's a lot to be said for an advocate in the police department. I mean, I've seen how effective this person is and helping people and being able to connect them and she's in that department, knows the officers, knows how to get people information when they need it knows the system, all those kinds of things. I think we need all kinds of people to help. I agree, we need whatever that chat was in the bottom there that I can't read. I think it was from Brian. I think we do need those folks too. Okay, so let me ask one more clarifying question. And the other person that you mentioned is DV officer and that one is an officer position, is that correct? Yes. Okay, and you said that the officer position is specially assigned to this area and you mentioned that you have observed BBBBB Burlington BPD doing community policing. Is that what you said? They have tried community policing and you think it's helpful. I do not get that part. Can you just spend the next 30 seconds to clarify that for me? Well, community policing is a lot of times misunderstood but Burlington police started to make some great strides in that area. Having officers, for instance, not in a patrol car but out on the street, walking around assigned to a particular community, really getting to know the people in that community not just responding to calls in that community. And it also involves things they've done like have ice cream for kids and barbecues and things like that, ways to get to know community. And I know a lot of that is also on the chopping block because it sort of looks like maybe fluff. They don't really have to do that but I feel like it's all part of the package of really getting to know your community and that's super important in order to do your job well as a police officer. And I want to let everybody know if you're putting in the chat box, please know that Sean Liu is copying and pasting the chat box somewhere. We will also take a look at anybody else. Yes. Did you say Peggy? Yes, I did. Okay, thank you. My experience had been following the death of my mother in our home and I called the police to find out kind of what the process was of what do we do? And we had a variety of police in our house and they stayed with us until the coroner came and or the representatives from the funeral home came and took my mother's body out of the house. So I think there was a lot of caring and compassion within that process of having lost my mother and supporting me to do what I needed to do while they were there to just kind of make sure I was okay. So. Hot warming to hear that and thank you for sharing. That's a very personal story. Can you speak more about how that made you feel when someone is present with you in your sorrow and your suffering? You said something about your feeling. I just found it very supportive to know that they were there to help me to know what I needed to do next. And there were a few officers that were very good at touching base with me to make sure I was okay and had the support that I needed. Thank you very much. Anybody else would like to speak more about this or we can also talk about areas. Ms. Curry is next. Okay, please speak. I think one thing that the city did well this year was to accept the Burlington School District safety task force recommendations to remove the SROs from the schools. Say what SRO is, school resource officer. Yes, sorry, that's right. And why do you say that they are doing well to accept that? Can you please speak more about elaborate? Just because in my experience, I observed the presence of armed law enforcement officials making students of color and other students whose behavior was completely misunderstood and criminalized feel safer without them there. And I also believe it opens possibilities and opportunities for any staff in the school to learn other techniques for addressing everything that comes up like de-escalation and compassion and creating a better climate and community in the school. Can you speak more about that other techniques for addressing you mentioned compassion? Yeah, restorative and practices and creating a climate in the school that really builds community and hopefully uses an anti-racist policy framework to build inclusion and that's a big wish. So just starting at a very simple level, just making sure students of color and students whose behavior is labeled either from a racist or ableist mindset helping them just feel comfortable like their behavior is not gonna be criminalized and they're not gonna get addressed by a law enforcement official for something that's completely not related to criminal behavior. Anybody else? Yeah, I don't know if it's appropriate to comment on someone else's comment, but if it isn't, tell me. I mean, I just wanted to say that I have a slightly different view. I understand Liz's view about school resource officers, but I think it's important to acknowledge that it was also a missed opportunity to lose those officers in the school. I actually have a very different impression of some of the work they did. I don't disagree that there were people who were not happy to have them there, but I know there were a lot of success stories too, where... So I'm gonna interject, speak to me. You're not responding to Liz, you're just talking to Charis and Charis is asking your thoughts. So it is totally okay to tell me what you think, okay? So tell me what are the missed opportunities? The missed opportunities is for building relationships. So when you have the right school resource officer in the school, they become a connection. So that students, some of the time students who got into trouble, this officer was able to help navigate that system and kind of let the officer know who was investigating a crime, the student did, hey, this kid's having a lot of problems at home. This is going on. I think I could talk to them and I could work with them and I think this would be a better way to go. And they sort of played that intervention role sometimes. And the other thing they did is, for example, we had some kids who were doing a bunch of graffiti and stuff, and he talked to some of the kids and was able to say like, hey, you sound like you're really interested in the arts. This is an example. You've got a lot of talent. What about, have you thought about doing graphic arts and sort of steered some kids in a better direction? And we've lost that opportunity. I mean, it takes the right personality in the schools, but I think some of the school resource officers had the right background to do some pretty amazing work to help steer kids away from the criminal justice system and also to deal with the trauma that some folks have around people who are in a uniform and have a gun and getting to know people, know them as human beings and seeing that they can be an ally to them can also help to ease some of that trauma. So I feel like it's a mixed bag and I'm disappointed that the schools took out the school resource officers because I think the right people can make a huge difference in helping some kids get back on track that really need it. May I please ask your follow-up question? You mentioned, just so that we can add some depth to your, I mean, not to say you've said your thoughts very, very coherently, but I wanna know more. What do you think require to have the right SRO? Give me what it means to be the right SRO. I think their background is super important. They need, and I know that the officer at the Burlington High School actually had this kind of background, but he had like some kind of dual degree. I don't remember what it is, but I think you need the kind of background where you know things like Liz was talking about. You know de-escalation techniques. You know, most importantly, especially if you're working with kids, you've had training around adolescents and how their brain works, how trauma works, how trauma affects the brain, how to have a conversation with someone that is de-escalating and not adversarial. And I think that the right person for that job seeks those opportunities, even if it's not sort of a bit, you know, asked directly of them. They're the kind of person who seeks those opportunities to educate themselves and positions themselves to have the right kind of background to be an officer in a school setting. Anybody else? And again, I don't want you to comment on what the person said before, but just talk to me and just say, hey, Caris, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna push back and say something different. And that's totally okay. Sean, how are we doing on time? Do we have- For one minute past the first 15 minutes. Okay. Anybody else who wants to speak more about what is, what is Burlington doing well in terms of public safety? That's just my books. Okay, so let me look at the chat box real quick. Tee mentioned that the person for the job does not need to be an officer bringing lethal weapons to our schools. And I'm just gonna read aloud. I know that everybody knows how to read, but it's, I'm sharing the screen, so I don't know how it shows up. And Leah also mentioned, is someone keeping the stack? Yes, Leah, it's Sean. So if you wanna raise your hand or say stack in the chat, Sean will call on that person. Liz, do you wanna speak more about the question you ask? You have volumes of data show this is not the experience of kids with black and brown skin. Not really. I mean, I didn't feel like this was an opportunity for debate about an issue. I thought it was an opportunity to present what we think is going well. And that was something that went well this year. And then somebody, I feel like, was allowed to violate the rules of the group by debating that and not really speaking to what is going well, but rather regurgitating the line of the police department that actually isn't accurate for many students of color and students with special needs. I was on the school board for seven years. I've seen the data. And so, I think someone was allowed to present as fact something that was already put to bed. I just want to acknowledge that that was my role as a facilitator to set the agreements. So I take the responsibility. And Liz, thank you for your grace. And Carolyn, thank you for staying within the bounds of our conversation by reframing your comment as something you want to share. So I hope we all give each other grace and talk to me, okay? We're not responding to each other, but you're talking to Paris. With that, why don't we get on to the next round of questions? Let's get to this. Where does Burlington need to improve in terms of public safety? I'm gonna say, you know, earlier, we hear from some, I think, excuse me, Jeff, I'm just gonna call on you. You have identified a few things that you want to see happen. So that's the type of thing. Don't stop yourself. Don't censor yourself, but speak bare witness to what you have experienced, bare witness to what you want to say. And I see the ammo raised her hand. And Sean, are you taking stat? Yes, Lilia is after Jeff or Lilia can go first they said they want on to go last time. Okay. So Lilia's first. Yeah, thank you. I'm trying to figure out what I wanna say. Yeah, I just, I do wanna agree with Liz that I think that taking the SROs out of the schools was a great thing that happened. I do think that in terms of public safety, one thing that I've been learning a lot more about is the way that unhoused folks are treated in the city. And, you know, folks are currently, and this is a program that's happening with the city. There are a lot of hotels in the area are currently housing folks who have insecure housing or are unhoused. But, and so that has sort of for the past year or so has been a solution for folks in terms of having some temporary housing. But, I think that right now it's a bit of a precarious situation where if folks are choosing to not stay at the hotels or if they're not able to stay at the hotel, some of the hotels are kind of restrictive in what people can do when they're living there. I'm worried for folks who are living in camps who are tending outside because they're kind of not allowed to exist. And police have been known to confiscate people's possessions, to slash people's tents. And so I think that, you know, it's well and good that the police are having ice cream socials with some members of the community, but the police are also committing a lot of violence, particularly against low income and unhoused folks and against people of color in the city. And so the expectations and the accountability of the police that is something that really needs to be improved because right now the police are policing themselves and they're getting away with a lot of violence. I'll end there. Based on your observation with what you said, Lily, I just want to follow up in what way then, you know, I want you to answer number four if you are comfortable. If this is what you're observing, police are policing themselves and then the level of enforcement is inequitable to those of low income and people of color, then where does Burlington need to improve then? Can you speak to that? Yes. So I think that it would be really great. And this was something that I'm not sure if you all at Tulita are aware of, but in the fall, there was an effort to create an independent board that would be consisting of citizens of Burlington, members of the community. Many police officers who work in Burlington don't live in Burlington. And so this board would be people who live in Burlington and they would be in charge of investigating any sort of misconduct that was reported that the police would have committed. And then they would have been in charge of disciplining or figuring out what discipline was called for in instances where there was excessive use of force or any sort of misconduct. And that independent board was not allowed to move forward. It was vetoed by the mayor. And it's a whole long story, but I think that would have been a really great step because that would have been an alternative to the police policing themselves right now. The police chief is in charge of discipline and overseeing of, in this case, our police chief is a male so it's his department. And I think just we're thinking about, for some residents, the police are a friendly and useful organization, but that doesn't dictate everyone's experience. And so. So that does not represent everybody's experience. Yes. Great, anybody else? Thank you so much for answering both questions. We have Emma next and after Emma's, Jeff, but we have four minutes left for our second meeting. Emma, what about you take it away a minute each? Okay, yeah, I'll be quick. I think I had two points, which just quickly to touch back on what we talked about, what we were doing well at is the mutual aid. And I think that the mutual aid is fantastic, but at the same time, a lot of times these mutual aid, it's necessary because the social programs aren't available. So I think that the city really needs to commit and step up to these social programs. And I think that Alicia and our last group made a really good point about people wanting diversity, but not genuinely embracing it. And I think that as a city, we say we want it and we want to check off that box. We want to have the diversity, but I think that to do better, to make everybody safe, we have to really genuinely embrace it and seeing each other as human beings and really cultivating that culture from all levels within the city. And that really needs to come from the leadership. And I think that's definitely lacking right now in terms of really genuinely embracing that and not just doing some kind of a theatrical move that looks like it's embracing diversity. So when you say that needs to come from the leadership, what would it look like? Well, I mean, I think in an ideal situation, mutual aid is a beautiful thing and we should all be willing to help each other, but in an ideal situation, that that's coming from all levels, not just volunteers as residents in the community, but it's being encouraged from the mayor, for example, and actually commitment to that with finances behind it and a budget that really shows that level of commitment. Good. Thank you for adding, elaborating on that. And Emma, you did a good job in terms of, well, I'm not supposed to judge here, but I just wanna say you answer both question, whether you recognize it or not, that's what I meant to say. All right, anybody else? Jeff, I think, is that right, Sean? Jeff's next. Yes, yes. Yes, I just wanted to comment. So I think Burlington could certainly do a better job of looking at the root causes of many of these behaviors that I mentioned earlier, but they really need to do and get their arms around the unruly, antisocial, belligerent, and illegal behaviors that I witness on a daily basis downtown. A lot of it involves public intoxication, which leads to public urination, which leads to fighting, which leads to sexual harassment of women as they pass by. It really creates a very unseemly and unsafe feeling as you walk by these pockets of this behavior. And Burlington just cannot seem to figure out a way to prevent it or to help these people get off the alcohol usually that they're on. And it's been going on for years. So I think it is both. It's an immediate need to try to eliminate this behavior that makes everybody feel unsafe. But at the same time, we really need to look at the root causes because they're tied together. So we really need to focus on getting right both of these issues right. So thank you. Jeff, because I want you better understand and make sure that I capture it correctly. So when you say these people, who are you referring to? Well, usually white males, to be honest with you, that's where the problem lies. I mean, I don't know. I don't know much about them, but. Do they live on the street? Are they houseless from your observation? Is that what it is? Or someone just came and urinated? I've talked to folks from Howard Mental Health about this. I've spoken to the police. Sometimes they're homeless. Many of them do have a place to live. For many of them, it's a way of life. I mean, I think everybody watching tonight has seen this. It's out there in the open for everybody to see. It's very unsafe and unsettling to people, especially if you're not from Burlington and you don't see this every day. And I'm not talking about panhandlers. This is not, don't think this is about panhandling. It's not, it's about this unruly behavior that escalates during the day with the amount of alcohol that's consumed. Do we have anybody and then, or should we start the next process, Sean? I think that's it for people sharing and we're two minutes over our second 15. No problem. And I see that there are chats coming in. Thank you for doing that. And Leah, thank you for sharing that, the mall had private security, this CSN require police security. In general, we call the police for anything that is bothering us. Riff Raff on the marketplace have nowhere else to go. And so I see that people are putting those chats and I will say that they are being captured as well. So folks, the next part is, let's just step, again, this is to obtain your input and your vision. Again, I want to show you the charge, right? Our charge is to obtain public input on the needs, visions and values. So help me categorize. Looking at all these little post-it that we have, the purple ones here with number three, and then the, especially the orange ones, right? The areas of need, how would we categorize them? Can I just show you how we would go about doing that? What I hear from different people is that there's a part about the need to invest in the need to invest in varying public health and safety category, right? And so we have also seen some comments about the interpersonal, inter-community, community-building investments. And so why don't we have all, I know there's a lot to look at, but how can we categorize these? Are you guys following me? Are you all following me? Let me just stop this for a second. If we are to put what we have shared into buckets, okay, different buckets, vegetables, this bucket, da, da, da, this bucket, how would we go about it? There's no right or wrong way. Let's do popcorn style. Raise your hand, just give me a category. What do we have here? Let's see, Emma, thank you so much. Emma signed off. Brian, anybody else? I'm seeing the chats, but give me category. So I'll just volunteer somewhere earlier. Lila talks about mutual aid is good, but I don't know if it's Lila, but there needs to be intentional investment from all parties involved. I heard that. So more investment in social services program. I also hear Jeff talking about day to day, day to day need, right? Okay, so give me categories. Anybody? And the conversation about young people, how do we re-imagine safety in schools? If the SRO option is no longer available, Carolyn, what else do you imagine to build that community, to have that, you use the word steering, some of the young people into doing something more constructive, not destructive. And again, graffiti in many culture is an art form, right? It also depends on the eyes of the beholder. And so what type of categories would you like to see more of that you have not seen? Why don't we just have you all put in the chat if you're done talking? So make sure you go to the chat box. Go to everyone, make sure you put everyone so that people can see. Okay, Leah, categories, for example, more investment in mental health professionals responding to 9-11 calls that is related to mental health crises, right? Earlier, I heard differentiated 9-11 calls. Earlier, I heard hotel vouchers, right? Some people accept hotels, some people don't. And someone mentioned that hotels are restrictive. So maybe like other short-term housing solutions. Okay, so Liz, I will put the gym board back up for you. Again, is this- Sorry. Go ahead, Liz. I think there's a broad category of like non-law enforcement things. And then there's a category where there's opportunities for improving the way law enforcement works. That's just my kind of general overview sense. And okay, that's very helpful. And Liz, may I ask you to put that in the chat box for us? So there, oh my God, this is so ginormous. So non-law enforcement improvement and also improvement within law enforcement, correct? I hear a lot of community building, community building. The officers or like public safety officials getting to know the people. What would that, how would you name that category? Anybody? Just community building? You could also call it coordination, better coordination with community services. I mean, I think some of the most effective, you know, the only problem I have with the two buckets being so separate is, I think one of the things that we need to focus on is making sure that mental health crisis worker and a police officer are responding together when that's appropriate. You know, at three in the morning, when there's a safety concern, I don't know how many mental health clinicians would feel safe to go out by themselves. And Vermont did do this team two training for a period of time, which involved mental health clinicians being embedded in with police officers on emergency response calls. And I thought it was a really a good step in the right direction. Do you know the name of the program, Carolyn, just so that I can be specific? I believe it was called team two, like the number two. Okay, we'll look into that. Thank you for that. Okay, Jeff, we can agree to disagree, okay? I'm just using as an example, but thank you for sharing your thought and I'll put that here. Everybody wants to see that. Understanding each other to build trust, okay? And then that would be anybody else who have more thoughts, you can just put in the chat box if talking is not your style right now and your energy level is getting low. Could I offer a comment, not in chat? Yes, please do. Sorry, so I know you're trying to create categories here. One of the categories I kind of see is this issue regarding youth and SROs. I think that we need to re-envision what youth safety looks like. So, trying to keep it towards categories, but for example, right now, there's a significant underinvestment in resources for students at the school outside of academia. So things like mental health and non-academic programming, like vocational, athletic, arts, anything. I think there's a lot of things that could be done in place of the SRO in regards to community safety and security, and one of the reasons I hear that people want to hang on to SROs is this issue of school shootings that opens up a whole other bucket in regards to general community safety with gun for alliteration. But I think that there could be alternative security forces besides police. And I think that there needs to be a much bigger investment in regards to mental health services for children available through the school systems. Sorry, I went off topic with getting into a category. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. You are not off topic. Again, you know, you are not off topic at all. So let me ask you this. So in the, as a clarifying question, you say we need to re-envision youth safety. In the process of revisioning, who do you think needs to be involved? Groups like this as well as school boards and students themselves. Anybody else? And again, I apologize if we are going off topic with the graffiti comment. Let's focus on public safety re-imagining, okay? We can all agree to disagree with that. So I see that self-determination, if someone does not want the police to come when there's an emergency, the police shouldn't come. So it's choice, right? There's a choice component involved in individual choice. Go ahead. They can't do that. I mean, they can't, they can't not go because they'll get sued. Caroline, I'm gonna stop you right there. You cannot respond to people. No, I was responding to you saying that the police, if the police, if the person doesn't want them to come. I just, it's just sort of, I just... And you can stop right there, Caroline, because I need to do that. Nobody intervene or interject when you are talking. So when you do that to other people, I just need to tell you to not do that, okay? But I will come back to you. Sean Mu, after Lila, who is next? Anybody raise their hands after Lila? Oh, not that I saw. Okay, Caroline, so you were saying that when 911 is called? Well, I was just trying to add a point of just sort of, you know, my background is I'm a lawyer. I guess I'm just adding in that, just to be aware that, you know, I see people saying like, we could reimagine how the police do things, but there are laws out there that go beyond the state of Vermont and there is liability for police, for non-responding. So I'm just saying, if somebody does call 911, this is only my point. If somebody calls 911, you cannot say you do not want them to come. They can't honor that as much as they might like to, honor that because I'm sure they have a lot of calls to respond to. But if somebody just says, I've called you, but I've decided to exercise my right to tell you not to come, I'm just not sure that's a productive thing to pursue because the police department can get sued and the city has to pay a lot of money when the police department gets sued, especially if they're violating their obligations, their legal obligations, which they can't neglect their duty and they can't ignore a call. So that was all I was trying to say. I'm not arguing with anyone, I'm just saying they can't do that. They can't do that. So I'm sure. Are you able to see the mural, the little post-it and feel free to read that, Caroline, if I'm not capturing your comment, put it in the chat box and say, Karis, you didn't capture everything I said, okay? Anybody else who want to sounds good? All right, thank you. All right, so again, this people speak for themselves, okay? And we're using, going back to the agreement here. And I'm so thankful, everyone. This is a very value and value-laden topic. That's so important for us. And so if your heart, it's beating a little faster, if the veins in your head is throbbing, that means you care. And I don't want you to judge yourself. Don't judge yourself for getting a little amped up. I want you to bring it on, okay? And with that, let's value shared humor. Let's value the process. And let's remember that we all carry wisdom. Caroline, Liz, a school board member, you know, we live our lives day to day. Some people live longer. Some people live a little shorter in Burlington, but we all live there. And I also want you to pay attention to how your words may impact others and how you make meaning of what others say to you. So even people say, I don't mean it that way. I didn't intend it that way. But sometimes my tone of voice affect other people too. And so I just want to put this up. It's not a rule, it's an agreement. Let's just take a deep breath. Here's my favorite portion of generative process. In your chat box, if you have a magic wand, literally, if you have a magic wand to say, in the next two years, I want the city to prioritize these. One, X, Y, and Z. Two, X, Y, and Z. Will you just grab your keyboard and pound away? And for those of you who are using interpreter, I'm not sure if you are, you can talk to your interpreter and your interpreter will put it in the chat box for you. If you don't want to have people judge whatever you're saying, why don't you just direct it to me? Find me on the chat box and send it to me. And I won't read it aloud. Take it away. Prioritize your needs, your values, and your vision. Can we do that? Can I have two thumbs up? Or like, I getcha. Thank you. Perfect. You're free to turn off the video while you are typing away, okay? Could you repeat the question? Absolutely. Thank you. If you have a magic wand, and I'm asking you prioritize your needs, values, and visions that you have, one, in two years, I want City of Burlington to do this. One, two, three, you're prioritizing your needs and your visions. Does that make sense, Lila? Perfect. Type away. If you don't want anybody to hear it, just send it to me. Two minutes. Hey. That was the second time you got cut off. You were there. Or that we had somebody get cut off, yeah. So I feel free to send me your complete thought or put it in the chat. Or do you want to take time in the main session? It's just that everybody will listen, but do you want to finish your thought? Well, I just, I feel frustrated because I feel that there is a large part of our community that sees an important role in community control of the police. And there's a whole other part of the community that is represented by counselors in our city council who are going, no, but they don't come forward in these public forums. And so how to reach and bring that part of the community into this discussion to really see some of the points that Milo and Grace and other people, Steven and someone else, Frank, have been making. Annie. Sheriff's back to you. So Joey, I know that I came in mid conversation. I do want to share that the observation and the sentiment you feel about our engagement being more inclusive, especially of those historically marginalized and underrepresented demographic, your sentiment, you're not alone in that frustration and you're not alone in speaking up. And I want to let you know that as a team, Talitha and City of Burlington, we meet every week, 7 a.m. lifetime, every Monday. And we have targeted outreach strategies that we talked about. How do we reach to new Americans? How do we reach to people with, okay, let me finish my thought. Okay. Let me finish my thought. And we've also gone into NPAs, different NPAs. How many have we gone, Karima? Well, we've gone the two and I think Skyler has gone too. So Skyler, maybe you can also come back in Skyler in terms of, I cannot speak for the city, okay, Joey? I can only speak for the process. And so maybe Skyler and other folks can also talk to you and listen more about the comment you're making with engagement. Yeah, and just to clarify, I'm not talking about the marginalized communities and new Americans. I'm talking about ward five and six, the south end of Burlington, the wealthier, whiter. Yeah, okay. So let's make sure that in the mural board, because those are the details that we need. So whoever is taking notes on the mural for Joey's team, let's make sure that she specifically say, I'm not talking about the marginalized, but ward five and six, is that right, Joey? Five and seven, fantastic. Folks, we have interpreters too and many of us are tired and it is 730 your time. So with that, I'm gonna tell you a few questions that you have, how do we stay engaged? I put it in the chat box. If you have more thoughts, people who are getting cut off, people who feel like the first session is too short, you can put on the title, Burlington and send me your thoughts, connect at TalithaConsults.com. Sean, can you please put it there again? And Skyler is also putting his email address, Joey, that's something that you want to take down. Skylernash at BurlingtonBT.gov, okay? Also, Karima, can you put in the chat box? If you want the consulting team to nudge you about the next part of the process, you can also be on our e-blast. So literally say e-blast and then the form, okay? Put e-blast and then the link, that way people know. Who is tired? Who is ready to wrap it up? I see Frank saying, thank you all so very much for joining us. Burlington, I want to visit you all one day. So take care and blessings. Good night. Good night. Thank you, everyone. All right, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.