 It's time for the Lone Gene Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, a presentation of the Lone Gene Wittner Watch Company, maker of Lone Gene, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world honored Lone Gene. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lone Gene Chronoscope? They are CBS News respondents Larry Lesser and Walter Cronkite. Our distinguished guest for this evening is the Honorable John M. Butler, United States Senator from Maryland. Our guest tonight is probably best known as the man who was first tried for public office knocked over the redoubtable Democrat Senator Millard Tidings of Maryland. He is also one of the 22 senators who voted against censure of Senator McCarthy. Senator Butler, you said at the time that a vote of censure against Senator McCarthy might lead to a code of conduct by the Senate, which would prove harmful in the future. Just what did you mean by that? Well, I think if a senator is unable to speak freely in connection with the official acts and actions of other senators, it certainly has a tendency to shut a senator up and make him probably think more of what he shouldn't say than think more of what he should say and do in serving the people of his state. Would you feel obligated to vote for Senator McCarthy because he had helped you in your campaign in Maryland or because you felt in favor of what he essentially was trying to do? Well, no, I think you've missed both ends of my dilemma. I didn't vote censor or vote against censor except for one reason and that was that I couldn't square it legally. I didn't think there was any legal basis for a censor. In other words, if I may elaborate just a moment and briefly, a senator in my opinion should not be required to go before a Senate election subcommittee if he hasn't counseled and the minimum right to cross-examine, especially so if he has not been subpoenaed. If the Senate wanted the senator from Wisconsin to appear and testify, they could have issued a subpoena for him. If he then refused to come, then I think the Senate would have had a real basis for a censor on that count. I'm particularly interested in the fact that in describing this situation, you use the word dilemma. There was some thought that there wasn't any dilemma in your case that you have been staunchly alongside of Senator McCarthy all along in all of his actions and movements. I think anybody that reads my remarks that I made on the floor of the Senate will have that allusion dispelled very rapidly. It was a very hard decision to make. I made the decision solely on the basis of what was best for the United States of America and for the Senate. I felt that the Senate and I still feel that the Senate has hurt itself and that the precedent established, if there has been a precedent established, I think a lot of senators would like to think that there has been none. I think there has been and I think it will hurt us. Well, Senator, I know that you are regarded as one of the legal brains of the Senate. But tell me, since you voted against the censure of Senator McCarthy, how do you feel about his criticism of President Eisenhower? Do you go along with that? No, I made a statement in connection with that immediately after the senator's remarks. I happen to be a member of the Internal Security Subcommittee of the Committee on the Judiciary. And as such, I have worked very closely with the Attorney General of the United States and indeed the President of the United States. And I said in my statement and I sincerely believe that the President of the United States could never be said to be soft on communism. Well, do you think that the President can now count on the faction of the GOP, the right wing, who apparently have gone along with Senator McCarthy because they think he's soft on communism or will he be able to provide his own solutions for the country without forming the alliance of the Democrats? Well, I think that the Republican Party, I could not conceive of such senators as Eugene Millican of Colorado being called a right wing Republican senator or a senator who would not follow the lead of the President of the United States. In my opinion, he's one of the most able man, if not the most able man in the United States Senate. Yet he voted against a censor and I think many other men did it and they did it honestly. They did it trying to do what they felt was right for the United States. Do you feel that Senator McCarthy has damaged his own position by this recent attack on the President? Well, I don't think there's any question that he's weakened his position, yes. Well, from what I gather, you think that the President can now defy whatever remains of the right wing of the party? Well, no, I don't think the President would think of doing that. The President of the United States is a man that wants to get along with the Republican Party and can get along with the Republican Party in my opinion. If you'll take the record of the Senate and look at the voting record of the Republican senators, I'll bet you will not find one Republican senator that voted with the Eisenhower administration. Well, let's say under 75% of the time, that's pretty good record. You can't pour oil and man in the same mold. Naturally, I have my thoughts and deep convictions. And when the time comes, I vote them. If it happens to be contrary to the wishes of the President, I'm sorry for that. And I know that he realizes that I have deep convictions on questions of great public interest. We all cannot think alike. Well, you think it could be a rival party with a couple of months? The time with the President, the last time, and apparently from your question, you consider me to be one of the right wing element. I'll have no difficulty whatever in supporting the program of the President of the United States in that session. Well, would you be forcing to compromise on certain things or would you be able to override him? Well, I don't know whether we will do that or not. And I'm not going to consider that angle. As far as I'm concerned, it's not a question of forcing. It's a question of doing what your conscience will let you do. And that's what I'm going to do. Do you feel that the Senator McCarthy situation, the censure, and then the statement regarding the communist issue, the attack on President Eisenhower, has damaged the Republican Party's chances in 56, which is a vital year for you since you were up. There will be a running mate of whoever the Republican candidate is in 56. I doubt if it has. Well, I don't think it has. I think the censure business is now over and at an end. And I hope that what Len Hall said is correct, that the Republican Party will pull together and be a force for good. And I think it will. Well, Senator Butler, the President, has said that he stands for what he calls progressive moderation, I believe, is the way he put it now. Do you think he can put along the right wing of the party on such a policy domestically? I think so, yes. I had no difficulty following the President on domestic legislation in the last sessions of the Congress. I disagreed with him on the St. Lawrence Seaway that I had a very strong conviction on and I had to do what I did. I led the fight against the Seaway. You've got a pretty big seaport in Baltimore to protect. And aside from that, I happened to feel that it will hurt America rather than help it. When you say that you think you can go along with them on domestic policies, of course, we have another issue right now. And that is that Senator Nolan, who also voted against the censure of Senator McCarthy, has also suggested that we blockade Red China. Now, how do you feel about that? Do you think that my position on that at the moment is this. I had been very uneasy about not only the imprisonment of the 11 fliers, but the two civilians and also a number of other prisoners. I believe there may be as many as five or six hundred other prisoners now being held in violation of the terms of peace. I have always felt and have for the last nine months put consistent pressure on the Department of the Army and on Department of State to do something about it. I thought the methods employed were inadequate and so stated publicly. I think that's the duty of a Senator to do that. I don't consider that a disagreement with the President. I'm perfectly willing to have the United Nations try to solve this problem. If the United Nations is unable to solve it in a peaceful way, then I feel that the sovereign power of the United States has been challenged and that challenge must be met. We must protect our nationals. Well, do you think we should go it alone? Well, now I don't care how we go it, but we must protect our nationals. An American citizen drafted into the Army against his will and sent to a foreign country must have the protection of the United States with him. And it must be with him all the time. I think all good Americans want to see those boys protected for their country. They're fighting to preserve this form of government. What kind of time limit and what sort of compliance do you expect in regard to the United Nations action in this case before you would say the United States must take other action? Well, in the present circumstances, I think we have made admirable time. I think the United Nations and I will say that I have not been one that's been too strong. I've supported the United Nations, but I've done it with hope that we could do something with it, not with the complete belief that we could. But in this instance, I believe that the United Nations has acted with dispatch. I think they've acted in the best of good faith. And I think we've made real progress. And I think if we keep pushing that we can accomplish this thing through the United Nations. If after a reasonable time we cannot, then I say that the sovereign power of the United States must be brought to bear. Senator Butler, the President has said that he considers a blockade of Red China tantamount to a preemptory declaration of war. Yes, but he also said in the extreme that he would be in favor of it, which seems to me that backs up the feeling that I have that if the United States is to be respected in among the nations of the world and to keep the self-respect among its own people, it must protect its nationals because we have a form of government. We, the people of the United States, joined into this government for the sole purpose of protecting ourselves and promoting peace. Well, Senator, I don't think he said he was in favor of a declaration of war against China. He didn't say that, but I think that he did say that if he couldn't succeed through the United Nations, that he would be in favor of a blockade. I don't quite agree with you. I think that marks sort of a split between the you and the President. I don't think it does, really. I don't think that's going to be a split between the... But in other words, you think the United Nations can't take care of this... I think they've made excellent progress. I think they've done, in this particular instance, I think they've done a magnificent job, and I wish them every success. Thank you very much, Senator Butler. It's been a great pleasure to have you up here tonight. Certainly delighted to have been with you. The opinions expressed on the Launcine Chronoscope were those of the speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the Launcine Chronoscope was Larry LeSœur and Walter Cronkite. Our distinguished guest was the Honorable John M. Butler, United States Senator from Maryland. A Launcine watch makes the most perfect Christmas gift. It has beauty, elegance, and enduring quality. A universal reputation has just about the finest of the world's watches. 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This is Frank Knight reminding you that Launcine and Witner watches are sold in service from coast to coast by more than 4,000 leading jewelers who proudly display this emblem. Agency for Launcine Witner watches. For the enjoyment of you and your family, there's a special treat coming on Christmas Day. Launcine Witner's sixth annual Christmas festival, a gala hour-long extravaganza in music, song, and pantomime. See it on this television station on Christmas afternoon.