 What? So proudly, we who's wild, strut, and hard, sweet, wild, were so gallantly still, you better not. That's cheating. That's American. Who's going to win? Home. Home. Did you get teary-eyed just now? Mm. You did. Not for reasons that... Say why? When did it happen? I said, I dare you to say it. Yeah, I think it was definitely the dare. Where were we in the summer? So what about that? What did that touch? Well, I mean, you... Well, there's that word land. That's just a presumption that there are feet and beings on the land. And so I guess where is the... What does the notion really reside? Of the land? The land of the... It's a presumption within that coupling of words, rather. I wanted to start that way with you, because in some way, I feel very much that all this stuff around the national anthem right now, what does it mean for me in this body, in this time in history, to sing and really to claim that song for myself? So then it means that for me, it should look like me, it should come from me, it should sound like some experience that I've had in the world. And I'm wondering what that was for you just now. I didn't want to do it just... I'm not trying to make fun of anything, but really to put myself inside those words and inside that story. And I wonder what that experience was for you just now. To begin that way. Well, it actually comes from the first time I heard the national anthem outside the country. It was... I think it was... What was it? Olympics 2008? Yeah, I was living in Portugal at the time. And it was actually really interesting, because the Olympic coverage in Europe was completely different. I mean, you didn't get all these, like, montages of, like, you know, missing the school bus as a child, and then I run faster, and all of a sudden, I'm an Olympic gold medalist. You know, it was literally just... They had different channels, so you could just say, oh, I want to watch your question, and you just go... That's what it was. It was like, oh, wow, this is actually pretty democratic Olympic coverage compared to whatever it comes on here. Let me, at the time, I was still busy, you know, working and performing, but we were in a cafe. Just, you know, I think it might have been after a runner, so just talking as we would do. And then one of the medal ceremonies was on, and then up comes the Star Spangled Banner. And it was just like, oh, wow, wait. That means someone from the United States who just won a gold medal. Oh, wow. Wait, am I supposed to stand? Wait, do I care? Well, who won? Oh, okay. Yeah, but... Okay, well, what? And it was so much an internal conflict of, well, you hear that song that ties you to this land that you re-birthed in, but then it's like, well, you know, that sonic impact of like, oh, but does that carry me somewhere? You know, because I mean, for us, there's certain things you hear, certain, you know, sonic elements that will come in there and it grabs you like, oh, yeah, that time. Yeah, oh, man. You know, like certain things. That was your Marvin Gaye-faced for me. Oh, okay, wait. That would be my Marvin Gaye-faced. Oh, okay. That's the thing, you know, so it's like, you know, so when that comes on, for me, that just, you know, that takes me back, you know, Stoney Island in 87th Street, South Side Chicago, you know, just the many cousins, you know, onto... And so like that, it's like, oh, yeah, that grabs me. But then, you know, and I'm not in Chicago, it didn't matter if I was in Brazil, or something like that, Marvin becomes a hall man. But then, you know, the Star Spangled Banner comes on, and it's the media conflict. You know, it's like, well, is it pride, or is it, you know, repulsion? Like, what is that? You know, it's not a... there's no draping of the sound, there's no hook within the song, within that song, or that sound that... That's the scary part, maybe there is a hook in that sound that you're locked to, that you can't ever, you know, unshuffle yourself from. Well, I would like to challenge you in this way. I mean, I'm looking at all of the things that you do, right? You don't just do one thing. You're not an artist who is bound by... So you can move, so you dance. You use your voice, so you have a band. You do lots of things, and so in that same way that you're able to hold artistic complexity, I'm wondering if maybe in this moment you can also hold the complexity of hearing or singing or participating in that song and in those words and not have to reject it and to see who you are in your American self, or your partially American self. And what does that feel like? And is it okay? Can you give yourself permission to have all of that? I'm asking you because I'm asking myself also and a lot of people are asking that question in this moment and trying to sort out where they are and maybe from moment to moment it changes, but I wanted to begin our conversation in song. And then somehow consecrating this space and this moment that we're about to be in with you in a way that also invites complexity. How are you doing? I'm actually doing okay. But otherwise. All respects has actually been a pretty good day. It's a band. The band is really a piece of together of various people in my life and periods of my life as well. I got the commission from Harlem Stage in 2015 to be a part of the 90th anniversary celebration of James Baldwin. That was going to be for evils. It was at several institutions around the city. And so they invited me to present a dance or a premier dance work about or be inspired by James Baldwin or his works or all of the above. And as soon as they gave me the invitation I was like, great, I know exactly what I'm going to do. And we were going through the process and preparing once I got everyone together. Vince is one of my oldest friends in New York. He was down immediately. I knew Jeremy would be down. Jesse and I met. She was like, oh, I would love to see what it's about. There we were in the studio. So it was really about selecting which ball and text were going to be delivered. And how? Well, the how actually was kind of, that was really perfect. It was like, okay, we're going to really deliver this as loud and as fast as possible. So come Harlem Stage, fast forward. Then they finally believed we were doing a puncture. You know, we were showing up and they were like, oh wait, you're actually, I'm like, yeah, yeah, this is a thing. And, you know, we did the thing. And most of the responses were about a confusion or also a realization that none of the text I was saying was my own. You know, once we start, it's not me. That's all Jim. You know, he was a rock star. So the urgency of carrying his words and his lyrics and his text forward with this sound, which also is our sound, which, you know, again, is usually not recognized. It really sent a new sense of, it's kind of like, oh wow, my room is actually, it's like a clean room. And it's just like, oh, okay. Actually, you have white walls and not gray, you know. And so that's how the band kind of came together. And it was really just to, I guess, to really just test the limits on how we thought we could present the work or do justice or just honor the work of Bob. The texts that you are going to perform tonight from which books or essays or? The first text is, I think it's a long form called A Lover's Question. It's the first one. The last one, I believe, might be from Giovanni's Room, The Giver. And then the second one, I'm not sure. That is the title. And then we're going to do a fourth one tonight. Actually, that's not James Baldwin. I'm not going to tell the people who it is, but hopefully they can, I'll wait a minute, it's this. So, you know, we'll see. We're still experimenting with it, but it's something that we wanted to try. We were in the studio last time. So, you know, we'll see. Excellent. I'm wondering if anyone out here has a question that they'd like to ask. You're not curious about anything that just had to look at that hand back there? At the last prelude we were at, I asked you how you felt dance across breaking through the narrative of voices in American society. Now on the flip side, screaming and playing loud music, how do you feel that that has a different effect on breaking through the narrative of what we're facing? So, we're talking about breaking through the narrative of what we're facing right now, with dance and with music. And this choice, this evening, being music. Well, we... How do I explain this? So, we just finished eight years, and I guess we're just now, you know, I guess a period of post-eight years of an Obama family presidency. I am going to reiterate that we're Obama family presidents. And with whatever that means. And there's always kind of an expectancy from a white American majority of a certain type of behavior that's acceptable from, I guess, a certain type of black person, I guess. In the sense, I guess I'm speaking now of respectability politics and respectability actions on how to properly, I guess, protest or how to properly insert oneself into the landscape of diversity, hiring, or insert oneself into teaching racial equity. And then you have what always feeds America. It's kind of a cultural direction. It's the black youth which never asks for permission or waits for anyone. And there's no sense of, I guess, the quorum, or in the quorum in the sense of meeting this white middle class standard of, is this how you behave? And it's just like, no, this is what we're going to do. And if it's loud, it's loud. If it's brash, it's brash. If it's going to come at you at 100 miles per hour, that's what it's going to do. But it's also going to pierce through a lot of the veneer and the fragility that exists to kind of maintain an oppressive facade. And so that's kind of the place we're at. No, I think it's a great... Did you want to ask something? Yes. You're playing... Jimmy always was rockin' a suit. If you look at him, he always sounded on a pretty nice suit. Yeah, he was always about the business. So that's kind of a way to honor him. And them, I should say. Anyone else? Yes? Me, because I can ask for anything. So the question is, what made you decide to go with music probably than choreography? Well, certain times we'd dance. And this actually... When I moved back to the United States, I made a pledge to myself. I said, I can no longer make work with music. I said, you know, I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. I said, I can no longer make work where if someone... At the end of the performance, if someone says oh, that was nice, then I failed. And dance has a tendency to do that a lot. And this is like, well, what's the damn point? Well, but what is the point? What is it that you're trying to solve or provoke? What do you solve? Well, it's definitely to move. And it's definitely to agitate. And then I guess one of the things I often ask back is well, if you're more afraid of me than you are of white supremacy then you need to ask yourself a question. Okay? Because if you're more afraid of this group of people on stage doing what we do in the way that they're doing it than you are of the system that is causing us to do what we do, that fear is coming from a place of awareness. So let's have at it.