 This episode was prerecorded as part of a live continuing education webinar. On-demand CEUs are still available for this presentation through all CEUs. Register at allceus.com slash counselor toolbox. I'd like to welcome everybody to today's podcast on dialectical behavior therapy skills. Interpersonal effectiveness is what we're going to be talking about. We're going to start out by defining interpersonal effectiveness because a lot of us have used the term, or maybe we haven't, but you may not know exactly what it means. And it's more than just communication skills. We'll identify barriers to interpersonal effectiveness, examine the goals. You know, why do we want clients to be interpersonally effective? And how do we know that they are fully interpersonally effective as opposed to interpersonally effective in some areas? And we'll review techniques for improving interpersonal effectiveness. Like I said before the class started, the happiness isn't brain surgery podcast goes into much greater detail on different activities you can do with clients in order to help them learn and apply this information. The clinical side, we're really going to stick more towards theory and I'm going to let you use your own creativity to create some of those exercises. So what is interpersonal effectiveness? It's the ability to ask for what you want and say no or yes to requests from other people. So basically it's knowing what you want, asking for it, getting it most of the time and being able to set boundaries. How cool is that? So like I said, it's more than just communication skills because to be interpersonally effective, you need to be able to not only communicate but also get your needs met and know what those needs are. So the goals are to get others to do things you want them to do, realizing that this isn't going to happen 100% of the time, you know, but we want to be more effective at getting our needs met more of the time. And when there are situations that are really important, getting those needs met and getting a yes. So, you know, for example, if your friend asks you if you want to go out hiking this weekend, if you say no or if you say yes, you know, that's probably not a huge big deal to that person. Now if your friend says, I need you to pick my kid up from school because I'm going to be held over at the office. Now that's something that's more of a big deal. So if it's something that's really important, you want to make sure that you are more effective in communicating how important it is and getting those needs met. So we also want to help our clients make sure that others take them seriously. And if you think there are a couple things that may get in the way of being taken seriously. One is the way you ask, when you ask for something from someone and you give the tone like it's not all that important or you hedge, you know, if you wouldn't mind or if it's not too big of a deal. People are not going to tend to take it as a serious request or something that's very important. Even if you think it is, if you don't communicate assertively, then it comes off as, you know, it's not a big deal. The other or one of the other reasons that people are often not taken seriously is because they may ask for something and make it seem like it's this huge big deal. When it's really not all that consequential. So they're always making mountains out of molehills and people may tend to see that as somebody who gets, you know, all fired up about something that in three days they won't even care about. So we're going to talk about clarifying goals and objectives and wants and needs, but also assertive communication. We want people to effectively be able to set boundaries and say no to unwanted requests and we're going to talk about five levels of saying no, or yes. We want them to strengthen their relationships and interpersonal effectiveness means being able not only to make good, healthy relationships, but be, but being able to nurture those relationships and deal with them when things go a little bit wonky, because not, well, no relationship that I know of is ever perfect 100% of the time. So strengthening those relationships so they can withstand the occasional storm. It's also important to be able to find and build new relationships. Now if you're an introvert you may not need 50 friends, you may not even want 50 friends. If you're an extrovert, on the other hand, you may really enjoy being around a lot of other people. So depending on your temperament, depending on your personality, however you want to say it. You may or may not need a greater number of relationships, but it's important to know, you know, if you develop a new hobby, how do you develop friendships with people who share that same hobby or interest. And then we'll end on talking about how to identify hopeless relationships and end them. And we're going to talk about using how to use a decisional balance exercise to figure out whether this is an important relationship that is worth going through the energy and effort for, or if this is a relationship that is doing more harm than it could ever do good. The barriers to effective interpersonal skills start with lack of effective communication skills. If you can't effectively articulate what it is you want and need, then it's going to be almost impossible to be interpersonally effective. And when we get down to Dear Man, we'll talk about how to help people become more effective at their communication. The lack of clarity about what you want from other people is also a barrier. If you want somebody to be supportive or to spend quality time with you or, you know, find some other kind of subjective term. If you tell them that they may hear you and they may want to do that, but their idea of supportiveness or quality time may be very different than yours. So that goes back to communication skills. But you also have to know in your mind, what does supportiveness look like? How am I going to know if this person is being supportive or spending quality time? Balancing your needs with the other person's needs can also get in the way of being effective. And it can go both ways. You can be more concerned about getting your own needs met, which tends to alienate people. Or you can be so concerned about getting approval from others that you sacrifice your own needs and you end up getting run down and beat down and feeling exhausted and resentful. Emotions can also get in the way. When people interact in a situation and there is some sort of conflict or issue, it doesn't even have to be conflict. Sometimes they get into their emotional mind and you've got that adrenaline hay is going. So you're not thinking clearly about what is the next right step. Your reaction when you're in your emotional mind is just to make that unpleasantness stop. So we'll talk about emotion regulation and how to get into the wise mind in order to choose the best course of action. Sacrificing long term goals for short term relief or urges is another barrier. If somebody wants you to do something and you know this comes up a lot in sobriety where if your long term goal is long term sobriety and happiness and all that stuff out here, but somebody wants you to go out gambling with them or go to a situation which might be dangerous for your sobriety. Then it can be a little bit more difficult if you're more concerned about maintaining that relationship than maintaining health happiness and sobriety. Other people can get in the way by trying to convince you to be or do something that you don't want to do. And sometimes you're just in a situation where no matter how effective you are, no matter how assertive and how clear you are about what you need, other people or that situation is just more powerful than you. It happens at work a lot. It happens in politics. It happens in life. So understanding which situations are basically unwinnable and figuring out what to do about those to be effective. And that effectiveness means doing what you need to do to ultimately keep moving towards meeting your goals. It doesn't necessarily mean winning every battle. You want to win the war. A need for external validation keeps a lot of people from stating their own needs because they want so much to be liked. They can't tell themselves that they're okay. So they need other people to tell them they're okay. And beliefs that they don't deserve what they want. And I've worked with a lot of clients over the years who honestly deep down in their heart don't believe they deserve to be happy because of the things they've done or the things they haven't done. So we'll talk about how that can get in the way of reaching their goals if they don't believe they deserve to reach their goals and different ways we can help them start embracing this concept of the beginner's mind and every day is a new opportunity to try to make the best life possible. So dear man, D means to describe in specific objective terms. So I tell people, if you're going to be specific and objective, then you're going to write something down, and I can call somebody in from off the street. They can read that description and they can look at the situation and go, yes, that's done, or no, that's not. An example I usually use is house cleaning because, you know, that's pretty objective there. For me, a clean kitchen means the dishes are done and put away. All of the stainless steel has been wiped down because I cannot stand fingerprints. All the flat surfaces are clean of everything that's not supposed to be there and wiped down and the floor has been swept. Those are, you know, very objective things. Somebody can look at a sheet and go, yep, the stainless steel has been wiped down. Yep, the dishes have been done. That's objective. If I just call somebody in from the street or, you know, call my husband in and go, is the kitchen clean? Do you think this is clean? It's kind of time to look at me and go, yeah, looks fine to me. And I'm just like, can't you see the fingerprints? I'm a little OCD, but they love me anyway. If I want something to get done to my specs, I need to be able to set out the specs. If you want quality time with the family one weekend, one day each weekend, you need to spell out what that looks like for them so everybody knows what the game plan is. So describing in specific objective terms that anybody can understand, even people who aren't involved in the situation is the first step. Express feelings and opinions using I statements and one of my favorite activities to do with people. If we're doing it in individual, I have them write it down as homework. If we're doing it in group, I have somebody start telling a story about a time when they got got upset. And they're supposed to use I statements whenever they're expressing feelings or opinions. And as they go, when they start turning to the and he made me time out. No, what happened. I felt XYZ because of what happened and encouraging people to take ownership of their feelings of their actions of their responses. And I find, or I find when talking to people and if you use the pronoun you, you tend to almost point even if you don't physically point at them, you did this you made me do this you you you, and it there's no ownership of anything. And it also puts people on the defensive it pushes them away. We want to encourage people to bring other people in interpersonal effectiveness means bringing that relationship closer and making it more workable. The a stands for assert, asserting what you want and don't expect mind reading, even if you can read minds, you know, maybe you can, I don't know. Even if you can, you probably know that most other people can't. So don't expect mind reading because they can't do it. And if you expect people to read your mind and do what you want them to do. And then they don't, you're going to feel disappointed and resentful, most likely. So we want to look back and when clients start talking about how people aren't meeting their needs are living up to their expectations. We want to have them examine did you tell them what those needs and expectations were, or did you just expect them to know. Sometimes it's the latter so then we talk about well how can you communicate what your needs are in order to help this person. Get with the program, because a lot of times in relationships people really want to make it work, but they don't have the information so we need to get the get the knowledge out there. The last part are our endear is reinforced by explaining the benefits to the other person ahead of time. If you do X, then this is the benefit to you. If you call when you're going to be late that I won't be nearly as upset and stressed out and our evening will go a lot more smoothly. But if you're really ahead of time that we've got a big project coming up, then I can clear my plate so I can devote myself to this project. Making sure it's a win-win part of this means knowing what the other person or having an idea what the other person wants. I mean if you're dealing with your boss it's usually pretty clear. If you're dealing with another person what is it that's meaningful to them and how can you convince them that meeting your needs in this situation will help them get their needs met as well. M stands for mindfulness too often when we're in discussions, especially conflictual discussions where we're trying to assert we can get sidetracked really easy. It's important to stay focused on your goal. If you're talking about something that happened five minutes ago, stick with that, resolve that issue before you move on to something else. If the other person or when the other person starts feeling like they're losing control, they're not in power in this particular conversation, they may use diversion techniques like blaming, magnification, justifying or switching topics. So being aware of that, encouraging clients to think back over situations where they've had a discussion with someone and it hasn't gone well and it ended up with that person using some of these techniques if you will. And rehearsing how can you counter that if they want to blame you for what's going on. How can you hear that and respond in a way that's effective and stays on point. How can you diffuse that if they're magnifying, you know, you always or you never focus on the exceptions, you know, I hear you saying it feels like a lot of the time I don't do this. However, you know, there, there, there have been times and, you know, credit where credit is due justification happens a lot. Well, I did that because you obviously weren't going to do it. And then figuring out how to respond to that. If they're justifying something that was hurtful to you, having them examine what were the consequences. Yes, you did that but what are the consequences overall and are the consequences worth what you did. Switching topics is the easy one. If you're mindful, being aware of when somebody's trying to take you off the path, acknowledging it and tabling it for a later discussion I hear that you want to talk about what happened last week. When we're finished discussing this issue and we can come back to talking about that. You're never going to get anything accomplished. If you are constantly struggling against someone and going on six different paths. That was one of the first mistakes I made when I was in my first practicum. We were trained in humanistic rogerian client centered. And I went and I did my sessions and bring my tape to my supervisor. And he'd listen to him and we talk about him and after about the third one. He turned off my tape. And he looked at me he's like, Where are you going with this. And I was like, not really sure where the client wanted to. And his response was like, No, there was no like about it. His response was, No, you need to have a direction. And if they want to talk about something noted, but they need to finish the original path first. And you need to help keep them focused because switching topics and engaging in behaviors like that is a way of avoiding the uncomfortable stuff. And I was like, Oh, learn something today. So being mindful and being mindful of why people do this a lot of times, blaming magnification justification is a protective mechanism in response to feeling out of control. A stands for appearing confident in verbal and nonverbal behavior. Many of our clients. Well, they can take either extreme. And I've had clients with both. Sometimes people ask for things and they will hedge, you know, if you don't mind if it's not too much of a problem. That's not confidence that is being very passive and gentle. Aggressive on the other hand would be kind of getting up in somebody's emotional or physical space and going you will do this. What you need to do is help clients figure out what confidence looks like and how they can appear confident. And I encourage them to watch a variety of television shows and examine what confident behavior looks like and differentiate it from aggressive behavior. So when they see somebody or see something that seems aggressive. Tell me why that seemed aggressive as opposed to confident and get them to start articulating what they're seeing or hearing and a lot of times it's going to be in the nonverbals, whether it's confident or confrontational. An end stands for negotiate. Sometimes a lot of times you're not going to get all of your needs met or get 100% agreement. So be willing to offer and ask for other solutions. Not everybody is an active learner where they think on the fly and they hear things and they process. Some of us are reflective learners. We hear we process we mull it over we find the connections and then we have a light bulb moment. So speaking with somebody who's a reflective learner, or you're talking to somebody who's a reflective learner, help them embrace that and understand and communicate to other people help other people understand that it's not that I'm not listening I need a moment to think about it. It doesn't have to be days, but sometimes one person can state their case if you will, and then you need to take a little bit of a break of a break. So the other person can really think it over and contemplate their response, and then come back with a mindful response. If you're prepared to compromise. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. So what parts of this are you willing to let go, and what parts are you not. And if you have to say no, encourage people to be willing to say no but offer alternatives. Right now we're in kitten season. I'm going to switch from one of the rescues I work with about a bottle baby who looked to be not even a week old, which means that kitten is going to need to be fed every three hours around the clock for at least the next two months. Give or take. I don't have that kind of energy in me right now. So I cannot take on a bottle baby, but I can take on mama cats with kittens and older cats to free up slots in other fosters care. So they can devote energy to feeding a bottle baby. So that is my compromise that is my alternative. I know that I can't handle the first part, but there are things that I could do to pitch in to kind of be a team player. Have clients think about times when they've asked for something. Haven't gotten it. Think about what kind of alternatives, could they have offered that might have gotten them a yes, when they actually ended up getting a no. Another thing that's important is to clarify priorities. There are many things to consider here. There's getting what you want. First, you need to know exactly what it is you want and how the other person can provide this. So you have to have a clear goal and destination in mind. If you just want to feel better. How many of us have had a client come in and say, I just, I want to feel better. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I feel for them. I know what feeling better looks like to them. So I need to understand you want more energy, your concentration. What makes you happy? I mean, happiness is defined differently by different people. So we need to get a more objective definition of what are you hoping to get out of counseling. You can be crying episodes or fighting or number of days. They just want to crawl back under the covers and not get out of bed, you know, define it in something that's observable to fix it. If you're talking about a toaster. That's pretty obvious if it makes toast is fixed. But if you're talking about an interpersonal situation, or even a situation at work. What you envision as the resolution may not be the same as the other person. I know there were times I went to my old boss and I'm like, this isn't working, we need to fix it. And I had a very different idea about how to go about it than he did. And a very different ideas of endpoints. So it's important to communicate what is it you're hoping to achieve. The next one is, I want to know you'll never leave. And, you know, rationally, most of us realize that that's not something that anybody can guarantee. However, what is this saying, this is saying that the person has fears of abandonment, and they want some sort of reassurance that the relationship is going well, and not dissolving in front of their eyes. So what would that look like, what would it look like if you felt secure in a relationship. So those are ways that I kind of encourage clients to be more descriptive in nailing down exactly what they want. Keeping the relationship is another priority though, you may not be able to get what you want and keep a relationship. So you've got to weigh those two things. If I get what I want and I lose this relationship, what's the impact versus if I keep this relationship and don't get what I want. What's the impact, and where does self respect fit in all of that. At the end of the day, how will I feel about looking in the mirror. So three priorities you need to balance or encourage clients to balance when you're helping them become more interpersonally effective. So balancing needs starts out with asking for something or saying no. Asking for something level one, you ask tentatively you take no it's kind of like do you want to go out to dinner tonight. You're not really committed either way but you figure hey what the heck I can put it out there. Maybe it's been a long day, and you don't want to cook. So you may ask confidently. Would you mind going out to dinner tonight or I would really like to go out to dinner tonight. Would you go with me be willing to take no for an answer, you still have options you can call other people you can go by yourself, you know, whatever. Level three is asking confidently and resisting no this is when you're going to start getting into needing to create that win win situation. I would really like to go out to dinner tonight. So I won't have to do dishes afterwards, and it's been a long day. It will help me feel more relaxed. So, so the evening can go better, whatever you want to say. Anyway, so you're starting to negotiate and create that win win and make sure the other person sees how it benefits them because it's more important. So you're going to put more effort into it. Level four you want to ask firmly insist and negotiate on options. I need to go out to dinner tonight. I don't have it in me to cook. I don't know if going out to dinner would ever get to level four but we're going to stick with it. I don't have the energy to cook. Where would you like to go, you know, if you can go anywhere you want, as long as we go out to dinner where would you like to go. So that's negotiating level five is the not no negotiation and with dinner probably never going to get there. But sometimes there are things that are that important that they're non negotiable. If you're in recovery, having people not use around you, not bring alcohol around you, maybe something that is really important. If you are somebody who's very sensitive, I have one friend who doesn't get bothered by a lot of things. I couldn't even read the preface to Marley and me before I was boo who crying like a little kid. But things don't seem to bother him near as much. And there have been occasional times he shared memes or things with me on Facebook. And I've just kind of been like, okay, I could have gone my entire life without seeing that. So it was important for me to ask firmly and be like, don't ever send me that again. But expressing to him why it was important, not just saying don't ever do it, because, you know, then they don't understand, but making sure that people understand what your boundaries are, why they're there, why it's important. So, because they respect you, or if they respect you, then they'll respect that boundary. And one thing is true with saying no. Sometimes people will ask you to do things and, you know, you're kind of ambivalent, but you agree. You can always put out your option later, like if somebody wants to go out to dinner at Oh, Charlie's, and you wanted to go to Olive Garden, you can say, all right, we'll go to Charlie's tonight. Next weekend, let's go to Olive Garden. So putting it out there so it's still fair level to encourage people to say no confidently, but be willing to reconsider with the kitten example I gave you. You know, if they would have said, we really need somebody to handle this kitten over the weekend until we can find a proper placement for it, can you just take it for four days. Well, I might be willing to reconsider at that point, I probably would have. So if they can change the situation in some way to make it more doable for you be willing to reconsider. Level three say no, no firmly resist saying yes. Level four, which is like I said where I usually end up say no firmly, but negotiate I cannot do that or I will not do that. However, I will do these other things, you know I want to be a team player I want to cooperate, but that is not something I can do that is conducive to health happiness insanity right now. And again level five shouldn't come up very often. But it comes down to those non negotiable things I will not do this. And if I'm forced to do this, then I may have to change the situation. So the points to consider when asking for something, can the other person deliver. If you are saying yes to something, can you deliver, you know let's consider that first is this even doable. Does it relate to a high or low priority goal, those low priority goals are probably going to be level one or level two, you know you'll take it or leave it. The high priority goals you're probably going to put some more into. How will it impact your self respect to say no, or to take no. So if you tell somebody know, how is it going to impact your self respect in that particular situation. And, you know, with me with animals kittens puppies dogs whatever, it is really hard for me to say no, and my self respect kind of, I have to look at it very seriously because I believe that it's partly our ability to take care of them. So the bleeding heart part of me kind of takes a little hit when I say no, but the rest of me that's a mother and a business woman and you know trying to be a saying human being maintains my respect by saying, I can't be good to anybody. If I'm completely worn down. I'm examining each person's rights and values in the situation. What's important to me may not be important to somebody else and I can respect that that's not one of their values, and I can respect their right to say no, and vice versa. And that's something we need to encourage our clients to look at is, you know, maybe this isn't something that was really important to that person, examining what type of relationship you have with somebody. If you're just friends, you're going to ask different things than of somebody that's a co worker, or someone who lives four doors down from you in the neighborhood. So encouraging people if they get a note to think, was this an appropriate request to make a person that I have this kind of relationship with. What is the effect of your action on your long term goals. So if you say no, does it help you achieve your long term goals. For something is it helping you achieve your long term goals. If not, you probably want to consider whether it's worth cashing in that kind of friendship karma, because relationships have to be a balance. So if you're asking for something you're basically cashing in some karma from the bank and going okay, you give me this then there will be a give and take later. There has to be give and take in the relationship. Now there are going to be times when people are in crisis, and you know one person in the relationship will need a whole lot more energy and effort for a sustained period of time even than the other person. But in healthy relationships. When this other person needs something, even if it's for a sustained period, then it's, you know, give and take there is a balance it's not just one person always taking Think about if you've done your homework. If you're not effective at getting your needs met or getting yeses. Are you creating an effective win win situation. Do you know what that other person's needs and wants are, and can you phrase your needs and wants in a way that will help them have a positive outcome as well. Even if all these other things are in alignment, the moon is full the stars are aligned, your timing just may be off. There are times when any other time, and I think we've all heard this and said it, any other time I would do it in a heartbeat. But right now, I can't being aware and respectful of that, encouraging clients to step out of themselves. And instead of being stuck at the no step back in here the any other time I would do it for you. And reflecting on whether their timing was just really bad, looking at what their part was in it. If clients are in their emotional mind when they are trying to have these discussions, they are trying to make the unpleasantness stop there and fight or flight. So encouraging them before going into any sort of interactions or whatever, which pretty much means every day at the beginning of the day. To mitigate any vulnerabilities if they're tired, if they're dehydrated if they haven't eaten well if they're in pain, or if they're sick. Making sure that they do their best to mitigate any vulnerabilities so they have as much energy as possible to deal with the curveballs that life might throw at them. Encourage them to review their distress tolerance skills, especially accepts and improve the moment. So go back to emotion regulation and regulating vulnerabilities, or you can just Google dbt and accepts and improve in order to identify what each one of each letter and these acronyms stands for, but basically these are methods of stepping back on hooking from your emotions until that adrenaline rush can bleed off until you can get into your wise mind. A lot of times it involves acting the opposite, taking a mental vacation, or trying to do something that will get you in a better place. All of these will help people take a break, take a break until they can get into their wise mind. Remembering that in the emotional mind, we are typically reacting on instinct, like if a B lands on your arm. Our instinct, you know, B lands on your arm, you may have the initial instinct to try to swat it off, because you don't want it to sting you. If you get out of your freaked out phase, get out of your emotional mind, you realize that logically, if you try to swat it off, you're going to make it angry, and it's probably going to sting you anyway. So the wise mind would say, just be patient and it'll fly away in a second. Thinking about that every time, or encouraging clients to think about the B analogy, before they act each time. Are they swatting at the B, or are they making the best choice based on all of the information. This is one of those acceptance and commitment therapy kind of shortcut questions, but clients need to know before they take a decision, before they make a choice. Is it going to help them get closer to their long term goals? Or is it just them wasting energy? Because it's one or the other. If they're doing something, then in some way helps them move towards their positive goals. Wonderful. If they are doing something that's just kind of like spinning their wheels in mud, it's a choice they are, it's a valid choice to make, but is it helpful? We want to ask them, what are your long term goals in terms of happiness? What does it look like to be happy in your world? What are your health goals? Not everybody wants to work out, not everybody wants to, you know, eat super, super healthy. What are your goals in terms of your health? Is it just kind of staying alive, avoiding terminal illnesses and stuff? Cool. You know, just knowing what they are will help you figure out how much energy to devote to that. What are your long term goals in terms of relationships? Not only with whom, but what are those relationships going to look like? What does a healthy relationship look like to you? What are your long term goals in terms of work and personal growth? So having people really think about these and create that picture, create that collage of what they are working towards. We'll help them figure out or answer the question, is this helping me get closer to my ultimate goals? But we know that to get to our goals, we have to do things. And if we're going to do things, we want to do things that are consistent with our values, which is the second part. And I asked them to identify three or five adjectives that they want somebody to use to describe them. You know, trustworthy, loyal, dependable, you know, whatever you'd use to describe your dog, I don't know. It depends on the different person, successful, creative, wily. And you can bat a bunch of these around. Another activity you can do in group is have each person write down on an index card or a little piece of paper, five adjectives that describe somebody in the room. Put them all into a hat. And then the group leader pulls it out reads those five adjectives and you've got to figure out who was being described. Captain caveman. We don't want people to cave on their boundaries and priorities, unless they choose to. And most of the time we want them to be able to maintain solid healthy boundaries. Sometimes other people can get in the way of this by trying to convince you to do the right thing. And if you really want their approval, they may have more power at convincing you to do what they want instead of doing what is important for your clients long term health and happiness. So I encourage them to look at why, if they've caved on their values and their boundaries before. What is motivated that what made them decide that you know what okay I give in how what is motivated them to become Captain caveman. And what can they do what changes do they need to make so they can be stronger and maintain their boundaries. There are other situations that people are just not going to win. And I said earlier sometimes you have to sacrifice the battle in order to win the war. A cop on a traffic stop is more powerful than most people that person at that particular point in time has the power. Our clients can choose or we can choose to buy our time and then go fight the ticket if you will in a in a court where things are allegedly more level. If you're in a meeting at work and your boss is saying something that you vehemently disagree with. The chances are your boss is probably going to win and thinking about with this power dynamic a is this an appropriate place and time to argue the point. And am I going to win, or is this is this person is my boss going to win so I need to figure out how to make the situation work for me. If you've ever been in middle management, you've been here. If a child, a young person wants the car keys and they're trying to get them from their parent, you know, parent has more power. So sometimes the youth is not going to win in a lot of these situations negotiation and patients play an important role in being interpersonally effective. And sometimes, you know, a child might say, I will pick my sister up from camp every day this summer if I can just have the keys right now and go into the negotiating. And that's possible. But being aware that there are some situations, some battles you're going to lose. So how do you turn it into a win. That's going to be different for each client. Each client is going to have to figure out how do they deal with defeat if they don't get their own way. What does that mean about them. What does that mean about the situation, and then going back to those priorities we clarified. What does that mean in terms of how they meet their wants and needs, their relationships and their self respect. And what is the next step that's necessary to help them continue on a positive direction. The need for external validation can cause people to give in, not be assertive, and to fear abandonment. So this adds all kinds of stress. I encourage clients to really explore what they consider the difference between being self confident and having self esteem and arrogance. A lot of my clients are are hesitant to develop self esteem because they equate self esteem with arrogance so we talk about the difference. And we talk about do you want to build self esteem and your kids you want them to be self confident. And everybody I've worked with so far thank you has said yes. So I come back with well what's the difference between self esteem and arrogance then how do you help them negotiate the difference because you don't want to build an arrogant child. You want to build a good group discussion. And if clients believe they don't deserve to be happy. I encourage them to tell me all the reasons they don't deserve to get what they want or think they should have. Why don't you deserve it. And then I make them argue the other side. I want you to pretend like you are are a your best friend or whomever and tell me all the reasons you do deserve it. And then we'll take all of those reasons on both sides and synthesize them. None of this is perfect. All of us have made mistakes so yeah, sometimes we haven't been 100% deserving but really most of the time. And the difference is that on us deserving to be treated well to be happy to achieve yada yada. So we want to help them understand that even if you've done something that you feel guilty for or ashamed of. It doesn't mean you don't deserve to have a new start things that inhibit interpersonal effectiveness. People play devil's advocate with the following myths, and you can do this in group, go around the room and have somebody make a devil's advocate statement. If I make a request it shows I'm weak. So I would also encourage them to explain that to me why does that mean you're weak. I have to know if a person's going to say yes before I make a request. Why. If I ask for something or say no I can't stand it if somebody gets mad. So going back to those irrational thoughts and cognitive distortions that we are so familiar with. We want to encourage them to address this playing devil's advocate make request making requests is really pushy bad selfish thing to do. My guess is that's what they heard growing up. So, encouraging them to explain their reasoning for this and then argue the opposite. Saying no to a request is always selfish. I asked them to look at what they consider selfish. The way recovery is selfish and in a way it's true. We have to be 100% we have to be there and happy and functional to be of service to anyone else. So we do need to take care of ourselves. And if that's what they mean by selfish. You know, I would encourage them to look at whether that's a good or a bad thing, taking care of oneself versus doing everything for oneself at the expense of everyone else. I should be willing to sacrifice my own needs for others parentheses all the time. We might talk about when this might be true. I must really be inadequate if I can't fix this myself. A lot of times we talk about things like asking for help when you need it versus just asking for help because you don't want to do something. If I would just think differently, I wouldn't have to bother everybody else. How often is that worked. So pointing out to them that a sometimes no matter how how you think you may not have the tools, but be sometimes and a lot of times other people don't see it as a bother when you're asking for help. They're willing to provide help. So encouraging them to explore whether they're assuming they're bothering people. I shouldn't have to ask you should know what I want and do it. Again, if you're able to read minds don't expect everybody else can but generally nobody can read minds. So it's important to put that back out there you can use some motivational interviewing and say something like. So you know what everyone else wants all the time. They'll probably say no. So then you can turn it back around and say, All right. So why is it that other people should be able to read your mind. Or you could just ask what a more effective way would be to get their needs met. I shouldn't have to negotiate or work at getting what I want. Play devil's advocate here. What happens if nobody had to negotiate or work at getting anything. Other people should like approve and support me. Again, one of those usual irrational thoughts. Everybody's not going to like approve and support you. If they don't what does that mean. Other people don't deserve to be treated well if they aren't nice to me. So you know how do you feel about yourself if you're mean and spiteful to someone just because they were mean and spiteful to you. I must have what I want when I want it. And my first response is why what happens if you don't get it. And generally it's it feels awful or I can't stand it. Then I follow up with okay, how can you deal with that reaction not being able to control a situation and getting angry about it. Revenge feels so good that it's worth the negative consequences. Asking them what's the benefit to revenge in this particular situation. How does it help you use your energy to get closer to your goals. Most of the time it doesn't it may feel better, but it doesn't really help you use your energy to get closer to your goals. And one they really hate is in what way does revenge actually give that person your control and energy, because they're convincing you to use your energy for something that's not going to further you towards your goals. You're giving them your power. Getting what I want is more important than how I get it the end always justifies the means. So there are a lot of different questions you can ask. I encourage them to differentiate between a want and a need, and sometimes we'll go through the Hans scenario. Hans's wife was sick, and he couldn't afford the medication. If she didn't get it she would die. He knew where he could get it, but he would have to steal it. So does Hans let her die, or does he steal the medication? Either way is it's sort of a lose lose question or quandary. But we talk about you know what would you do in those situations and why would one win out over the other. So keeping relationships. Give no attacks, threats, manipulation, judging, sneering, smirking, eye rolling or name calling. Be nice. Be interested. Listen. Pay attention to nonverbals, not only theirs, but also yours. Notice if you start tapping your foot or looking disinterested. Try to maintain healthy eye contact. Obviously don't bear into their soul because that's kind of freaky. But don't be looking around at everybody else in the squirrels outside the window. Try to unhook from your emotions. If you start to get upset, remind yourself by saying I'm having the feeling that this is unpleasant right now. And deal with that. But try to unhook so you don't have to get stuck struggling with the unpleasantness. Validate the other person by paying attention, reflecting back what they say and pay paying attention to what's not being said. Understand how the other person's reactions and thoughts make sense based on their past and present. It may not from be what you would have done, but based on their experience, how does it make sense. Acknowledge the valid and show equality, treating the other person as an equal, not as fragile and incompetent, or on the other hand, as domineering. And have an easy manner. Smile, laugh, try not to get too intense. Keeping self respect also means being fair to yourself and the other person. Not apologizing for your feelings or opinions and not invalidating the valid. What your feelings are are your feelings. They are very valid. Stick to your values and be truthful. That helps you maintain self respect in interactions with others. So if you're having difficulty getting needs met, ask yourself, or have the client ask themselves, do I have the knowledge and skills I need to be effective in this situation? Maybe they have issues with authority figures, so they might need additional skills in dealing with that. I know what I really want in this situation. Am I having trouble balancing priorities, compromising, or is fear, shame, or guilt getting in the way? Figuring out exactly where the barriers are. Our short term goals, getting in the way of long term goals. Maybe I really want to get a promotion, but I also at this point in time really, really want this person to like me. Is my emotional mind in control and are my emotions getting in the way of using my skills? Are worries, assumptions, or myths getting in the way of me being effective? And is the environment just more powerful than my skills are? Sometimes it is, and sometimes you have to accept a loss. Generally developing relationships. Relationships require attention and a clear awareness of what you want, need, and expect from other people. It's important to make full use of opportunity to interact with others and to interact with people who share similar interests and generally respond positively to you. Start by looking for people with similar interests. Introverts may only want to be around a couple of people while extroverts may enjoy broader gatherings. Figure out what your interests are and then start exploring meetups and Facebook groups and church groups and anything you can think of where you might be able to meet people with similar interests. Work on conversational skills. Practice, rehearse, asking open-ended questions. Identify two things each day when you read the news or look on the internet that you could make small talk about. Practice finding common ground with people and practice skillfully self-disclosing, not giving people way more information than they wanted. It's a give and take and we can explain how we learned about reciprocal self-disclosure when we were going through counseling training. And express liking selectively, meaning, you know, if you like somebody, that's great, but you don't want to seem like you're sucking up to them. To maintain relationships, you need to be mindful, which means being self-aware not only of yourself, but also your impact on others and their impact on you, any transference issues you may have going on. Pay attention to conversations with interest and curiosity, which includes not multitasking, staying in the present instead of planning your response while they're still talking. Focus on those around you if you're in a group situation and be open to new information. I encourage clients to try to learn at least one new thing each day and try to let go of judgment, judgmental thoughts about others. Using your wise mind skills, you can observe and pay attention with curiosity, staying in the present instead of focusing on your response, focusing on those around you, and letting go of those judgmental thoughts. So that's kind of a rehash of what we just talked about. But then you take it to describe. Once you've observed it, then you describe it by replacing judgmental words with descriptive ones. Avoid assuming or interpreting what other people think without checking the facts. Don't question others' motives and try to give others the benefit of the doubt. Take all that and then try to participate in the situation by engaging in interactions, going with the flow, and becoming one with group activities and conversations instead of trying to hold on and control where everything goes. Sometimes relationships are just unhealthy, so it's important to make the decision in the wise mind if a relationship needs to be ended. Consider problem solving if the relationship is important and not destructive. Troubleshoot problems and rehearse coping strategies ahead of time, problems in this discussion about ending the relationship. Be direct, be safe, and practice the opposite action for love, which is disinterest. People with emotional dysregulation often struggle in relationships due to lack of effective interpersonal skills, need for external validation, and a lack of clarity about exactly what they want and need out of situations and relationships. Interpersonal effectiveness helps people clarify their wants and needs, enhance their assertiveness and interpersonal skills, enhance their self-esteem, and develop and maintain supportive relationships that can help them achieve their ultimate goals. If you enjoy this podcast, please like and subscribe either in your podcast player or on YouTube. You can attend and participate in our live webinars with Dr. Snipes by subscribing at allceuse.com slash counselor toolbox. This episode has been brought to you in part by allceuse.com, providing 24-7 multimedia continuing education and pre-certification training to counselors, therapists, and nurses since 2006. Use coupon code, counselortoolbox, to get a 20% discount off your order this month.