 Learn, welcome to NewsClick in today's episode of Talking Science and Tech, joined by Prabhupada Koyasta. And today, we want to talk about France and its testing of nuclear weapons in French Polynesia between the years 1966 and 1974. Recently, declassified documents and analysis of these documents has revealed the extent to which the testing impacted the citizens of French Polynesia and how France grossly underestimated the impact of the radioactive fallout. So, Prabhupada, can you start by telling us a little about this, about what happened in Polynesia in those years? You know, first is to call it French Polynesia itself, of course, is a part of the colonial history that is there in this part of the world, as well in other parts of the world. The French captured Polynesia, the Polynesian islands, which it claimed for itself. And of course, the French had a nice way of putting it, calling it first overseas territories, then calling it overseas French provinces, and so on. But in effect, there were colonial possessions. They had very little rights. They, of course, their culture was subordinated to what was the French language, the French culture. And even today, officially, they are supposed to be overseas citizens of France. But the relationship between French Polynesia and France has not really changed. It still is one of a colonial empire. And because these are small islands, therefore, their ability to fight together is limited. Therefore, they continue in a quasi-semicolonial, neocolonial mode, with France being the dominant player over there, the dominant power. Now, the history of the nuclear testing in French Polynesia clearly bears out how the French looked at the Polynesian population. They were quite aware of the extent of the fallout. They knew it was going to affect the population of the islands. They really didn't bother. And that's the entire history that we see from these documents. That how much they knew where the wind was blowing, if a test took place, in which direction the fallout would take place. Did they make any attempts to warn the people there? No. They just continued with it, taking for granted that it doesn't matter what happens to these people. So it's only much later when there were a lot of protests, a lot of writing about it, they started acknowledging, OK, there is a problem we have. Cancer rates are very high in these islands. And there seems to be a correlation between the nuclear fallout because of the tests and the consequences thereof. The radioactive fallout was finally recognized at some point and the dates are given in these documents. And they passed some laws to say, OK, we'll provide some compensation. The compensation provided had to be proven by documents that had to be submitted. Again, the reality was that most of the claims were not accepted. Most of the claims were rejected. No explanation was given. And the French government's argument was that they had actually done detailed studies to show the effect was negligible. And this had been actually rubber stamped according to them, not rubber stamped, but according to them vetted, as we Indians say, checked and verified by the IAEA, the highest international coordinating body on these issues. Now later transpired that the French did not submit any original data to the IAEA. So IAEA had really nothing to go upon, except the data submitted. And therefore their exercise was really to say there are no obvious errors in the calculations. Now the real issue was what were the data submitted? What were the data that the French had which they did not submit? Now a group, and this I must say, was really an enormous work that these groups have done in different places. Three groups, one, of course, in France, one in Norway and one in the United States in Princeton. Three groups worked together to create a complete scientific analysis based on documents which had been declassified in 2013 by France. And based on these documents, they found out the exposure was nearly of 95% of the Polynesian people had an exposure to the nuclear tests. It was also found that the levels that they encountered were much higher than what the French had claimed. And also the amount of radioactivity, therefore the people had been exposed to was much higher. Given that they have shown that it is simpler to say everybody did suffer from the radioactive fallout and if they showed the 23 possible consequences of the radioactive fallout in terms of cancers and other diseases, then they should be compensated because that would then therefore correlate to the cause itself. Now this calculations that they have done, and again, we have the details of it, really bring out that the numbers we are talking about are not huge. So France could have spent over the last 50, 60 years, very easily 20, 30 million francs to compensate the people, which they didn't want to do. So the amounts that were being talked of, now it may seem large because it's over a period of 30, 35 years that we are talking about the total compensation involved. But if you really look at it, per year compensation was insignificant compared to French economy. So this is not explained by economics, but the sheer fact that you don't want to recognize your French Polynesian citizens really as French citizens and therefore you're willing to dispense with the problems that you have caused them through your nuclear tests. So I think that is a part of the colonial heritage that people don't recognize easily. And you can see France did the same in Algeria. I will forget the ethnic violence that they imposed in Algeria for hundreds of years, but even in the nuclear test in Algeria, we have exactly similar consequences. Though again, the Algerian numbers are much smaller. This was a much longer period of tests that the French did in French Polynesia. In fact, they also continued later, they wanted to start again new tests in the 90s. And then we have the famous incident of the rainbow warrior, the Greenpeace boat which went to French, wanted to go to French Polynesia, which was sabotaged and sank, killing one of the people in that boat and for which the French government finally was held responsible because even this was clearly at the highest levels of the French government. So given all of that, the French colonial history is of course dark, like all colonial histories, but its specific impact in terms of the nuclear tests also brings out that this is not something which happened in say 100 years back, 200 years back, but this history or this attitude still continues. And I think this particular case and now the documents that have come out, the analysis which has been done, shows that this is very much a part of what we see even today. And let's face it, French Polynesia continues to be under a certain kind of colonial subjugation. It may be called colonial overseas provinces, but the reality is really France controls these islands, just as France controls the ex-African colonies through the financial levers that it has, that it really controls the exchanges, the foreign exchanges of these countries are controlled and even their budgets are passed by the French parliament. So French neo-colonialism is very much alive, whether it be Poland, Polynesia, or it is Africa. And that is something that France doesn't want to recognize. It always claims, oh, they have been very egalitarian. They made people, they are citizens and so on. But the reality is the French colonial mentality, its colonial framing still remains and its relationship with its ex-colonies and with of course what it calls French Polynesia, still very much a colonial one or a neo-colonial one at best. And we can see it in this particular example of the nuclear test. I think it brings it out most sharply when we see the reaction it had to the compensation claims the citizens made regarding legitimate cancer, that the legitimate expenses for cancer, compensation for cancer, which was a consequence of the nuclear test. I think it's a very, very sad history for French Polynesia and for the French government that I think it still continues. Right, and like you're talking about the compensation and how France was, well, it seems, I mean, most likely deliberately miscalculated the impact this radiation had on people and was able to then reject most of the claims. But now that we have this analysis, the study which shows clearly how much people were impacted, as you said, almost everyone was impacted. Do you think, is it likely that the government is now going to acknowledge this and then will take steps to rectify its actions in the past? It's a very important question for the French to answer. Unfortunately, French Polynesia doesn't have that much of an impact in the French politics. And without a strong opinion within France, will France be shamed into giving this compensation? That's a question. Will France be held to account by rest of the world? Probably no, because most of the world wants to move on from the colonial period. They know that colonial period wrongs cannot be redressed. But this is not colonial period wrong. These are actually wrongs in over the last 50, 60 years. So I think this is living history. The people who are claiming compensation are most of them are still alive. So I think if the French can be shamed, the French government can be shamed by its own people. And this is really the onus of it lies on the French people. If they can be shamed by their people, then this amount is not that high. But you know, there is another amount which French have never really compensated Haiti for. When the Haitian slaves were freed, there was a huge reparation which the French government claimed from Haiti. And it continued till about 1948 or 49. And that bled Haiti, one of the most prosperous islands in that part of the oceans, in West Indies nearby areas. And Haiti played a huge price for that. It became one of the poorest countries in the world. So I think that history of France with regards to its colonies and armed with its own aura of being a superior civilization I think is what precludes honesty to examine the colonial history of France. And I think that's the big problem that we have when you come to these issues. The recognition that they were colonial empire, they were a colonial empire and they dealt with their citizens or their colonies, the people in the colonies brutally is something the French really do not want to recognize. They've recognized it partially in Algeria but in other parts of the world, they still refuse to recognize it. And I think Haiti and the French politician, this particular example shows what is still missing in French understanding of how they dealt with the rest of the world. Thank you for joining us today. And that's all the time we have. Keep watching this clip.