 and that you could be example of how you do and why you do it with values and responsibility. So I think that figures say one thing, but we are responsible for changing them. Well, Astaliya says when you are in, have been in politics, you cannot be pessimistic, otherwise you have to go home. So I am not optimistic exactly, but what I would say is that I'm sure that if we do what we need to do, all stakeholders, government, civil society, women's organizations, et cetera, we're gonna be able to diminish this huge gap that is in leadership in politics and economy, because in other areas, like in education or health, there is gender parity, but it's in this area, and particularly because inequalities and cultural issues are so important that maybe many women are left behind in those areas, or they need a bigger push, and as Astaliya says, I think role models that they can follow and feel that they are ready for it. So you're seeing progress in some areas while maybe in politics and other more visible areas? Yeah, I mean, there are areas who have been mainly main driven, if I may say, male driven, because health and education, there are social services. But I mean, before we also had a lot of disparity on that issue, that many families believe that they selected the boy for any social service on any benefit. Marat. Well, I would say that I'm optimistically pessimistic about things that, but I think that that's a healthy approach because it keeps one vigilant. And I think it's very, very important, especially when we see that these numbers, if we take our foot off the gas pedal, even momentarily, the numbers just, whoa, instead of improving, they decline. So I would say that this is the moment to be vigilant. There's a slight opening, and we need to ensure that the women coming through have enough opportunity to gain experience and be skilled at what they do. So that's our responsibility. And I would say that next year, we should request, respectfully, many more panels with just women. Carolyn, what are you saying? I am, in answer to a little differently, I'm very optimistic about the female leadership and the talent that we have across industries and government and business. I think it's a vast, and I'm optimistic about the impact that they can have. I am impatient with the progress that we've made and the lack of momentum that Marin mentions. And I think that, I think there's more to do. I think we have to fundamentally tackle the bias that exists within the workplace and the false narrative that we're using to justify the lack of progress. And so, impatient. So on the topic of working women, Christia Freeland, who you may have noted is supposed to be here. She's the foreign minister of Canada, has been pulled into a bilateral, and she may come late, and we're hoping she does come. Also, we will be opening it up to questions at the end, so please feel free to be thinking of yours. Carolyn, I wanna just drill a little bit more deeply into business. All year, we've been seeing headlines in the Fortune 500, the number of female CEOs has actually shrunk from 35 to, I believe, 25 right now. So we are looking at backwards progress. What is happening at the very top levels? Women are increasingly part of the workforce, as you say, but they're not making it to the top. I think a lot of it stems to what I said. There's a false narrative, there's biased assumptions that we are using as justification for lack of progress. And there are a number of things that we have to do differently. The first thing we have to do is stop some of the labeling that's happening, typically negatively towards women in terms of working through things. Can you give an example? Yeah, so we talk, many people have heard about women's confidence and women lack confidence. Somebody told me yesterday on a panel that his daughter, six months ago, they put all of their women through assertiveness training. There's all of these different pieces. Well, that confidence gap, hi. Welcome. Welcome. Yay. Welcome. The confidence gaps stems from an HP study where we found that men applied to roles when they had 60% of the criteria, women applied when they had 100% of the criteria. That became women have a confidence gap. Right. Put that aside, we never talked about what this was. What was it that we talked, what was that called, right? We talk about most organizations have 50, many organizations have 50, 50 representation at junior levels of the organization. But middle of the organization, that tips. So I got 50, 50 and it tips slightly. And we talk about, we don't want fake promotions to now close the gap. But this was advancing our best talent. So we've got to get rid of labels. We've got to find a way to really look at the total audience and we've got to get at this notion of women having to behave differently. I think the second thing, two things really quickly. We have to be very intentional in our talent planning. Very intentional, think about longer term, really reverse engineer the talent planning. You use the Fortune 500 example, 25 women, Fortune 500, we need 250. Going from 25 to 250 feels pretty daunting. But I need 225 more women in the world. They're out there. I'm sure we can find them. And when you narrow it down to the specifics and very simple math, I think we can make progress. And then importantly, we need equality-based policies. We need to find a way to make men and women equal partners at home to enable equality in the workplace. So those would be some quick ideas. And those are government policies or business policies? I think, well, here's how I'd reframe the equality-based policies because I think government can help it. But I think today we think about those policies, whether it be sufficient paid maternity leave or sufficient paid paternity leave. We think about them as benefits. As soon as they're benefits, we frame them in a cost benefit. You know, I've got to be competitive on my benefits. If I think about them as employment practices, I change how I think about them because I want to be the best in my employment practices. But I want to be competitive in my benefits. And so if we could think about equality-based policies as employment practices, I think we'd make progress. So, Christia, welcome. I'm very sorry. Don't worry. There are many things happening in the world today. We're very pleased to have you join us. And I want to ask you and our political leaders on the stage. Are women redefining political leadership? And in Canada, you actually had a meeting of women foreign ministers from around the world. Why did you do that? And is there something unique about being a female politician? Sure, of course there is. And yeah, we were very happy in September to host. We think it was the first kind of formal meeting of women foreign ministers. We invited all the women foreign ministers in the world to Montreal in September. And it was a really great meeting. It was, I think it exceeded our expectations. I think the ministers who were there felt. We were able to have a different kind of conversation. And there were some really interesting conversations. The South African foreign minister was there. The Croatian foreign minister was there. We had a conversation about Syria and including women in the peace process. And what was so fascinating was hearing from the South African foreign minister and the Croatian foreign minister their own personal experiences of that. So that's just one example of that meeting. Yeah, I think, look, I think obviously having women involved is a, essential, and b, makes a difference. Our prime minister after our election in 2015, when he named his cabinet, named Canada's first gender balanced 50-50 cabinet. And I can now admit that when that campaign commitment was made during our election campaign, I personally was a little bit dubious. I am a feminist, but I think like a lot of feminists, I'm sometimes uncomfortable with sort of setting out numbers like that. And I think all of us who are women in positions of authority, you have that anxiety, as you were saying of, will this be seen as a fake promotion? So I did have my doubts, but it turned out to be a brilliant idea of the prime minister. I really feel it's made a really big difference. It's had a very powerful demonstration effect in Canada, especially when I talk to younger women. They're all aware of it in the country, and it sends a very powerful message to them. And I have to say around the cabinet table, it seems to have changed the way we talk about things. You know, I think there are studies that show you need three out of 10 women around a table for women to be heard equally. I have to say when it's 50-50, women really are heard. And we had a really funny discussion just a couple of months after our election. We'd had a few cabinet meetings, and we had some ministers who had been ministers in previous governments. And the prime minister asked, you know, how does this cabinet feel compared to previous cabinets you've been in? And one of my colleagues who'd been in the previous liberal cabinet, it was a man, he was sitting beside me, and he said, you know, it's really interesting, prime minister, but in the previous cabinets I've been a minister in, it was incredibly confrontational. People sometimes almost yelling at each other. No one really listening to the points other ministers were making. And here it really feels as if everyone feels we're totally part of a team. The objective is to work together to accomplish something. And he said, and I just, I don't know why it's different that way. And all the women in the room just laughed. And we said because it's 50% women could be a reason there's a different mood. So Michelle, you have made history in Chile and now at the UN, did you experience something similar or were you operating largely in a man's world? Well, I mean, first of all, I did the point as soon as I got a 50-50% cabinet on my first term, and that was great. I never have any doubt because I do believe that we need to visualize fantastic women that we have. And in many of our countries are invisible, even though they're doing a fantastic job. So I thought if you show these role models and you said how it works, and it really works very well, because when I'm a medical doctor and I was a minister of health, if I would go to a village, little girls would come to me and would say, I'm gonna be a doctor when I am older. But then they come and say, I wanna be the president of the Republic when I am an adult. So it gives hope to people, it gives expectation. But on the other hand, I did come as a first female president in a country where that was not exactly the tradition. So in campaigning, you will go walking by and there is a man who will tell you, my wife sent you regards, but I will never vote for a woman. And I said, well, I didn't want into that discussion, it doesn't matter, you know? I just went to say what I wanted for a government, which were my program, et cetera. But I did leave the experience of being evaluated in a different way than man. For example, my predecessor, he was a very strong man, he was my president when I was a minister. And if he got touched for something, that was really sensible. Everybody will say, oh, how sensible the president is. If you get touched, oh, she's hysterical, you know? Or neurotic. I mean, there is evaluation in some cultures, maybe some others not, and you read the newspapers and the way they identify issues is completely different. It's really biased, really biased. But okay, but I knew this is cultural and that we need a culture change. So you intend to do as much as possible, even be civilized in this. I remember, because in one of the meetings that we hear somebody, oh, I think Justin mentioned that she's somebody, no, it was Stacey, that today in the morning, that she's the first female president of the New York Stock Change. And when they interview her, they will ask her, and your children, and your house. And I was asked the same kind of things. How are you gonna do with your children? How are you gonna do with your house? How are you gonna cope? Where, in which shoulder are you gonna cry when you have problems? And I said, have you ever asked a man that kind of stuff? No, I'm gonna do the best I can. I won't be perfect, because they're not such a thing as a superwoman, but I'll do my best. So there are bias, very important bias. But you know, that's a role also, to be working hard to put that bias down. Dalia, you are president in Lithuania. I understand the government is almost all men. It was a little bit better. Before, now, it's deteriorating, but let's a little bit go to the history how in politics women appear, usually. In the business, this is, again, another matter of leadership also. But in politics, it's a little bit different because it takes more courage, probably, and sacrifice of your private life, family, and also the capability to take huge responsibility. So why usually, at least in my observation in politics, I am seeing that women come fast, usually in very difficult times in country. Economic crisis. And now we have perfect example. There is a man. A man is replacing you. Me, yes, probably. I don't know, but there is a man, for example. Everybody fights against her, but nobody wants her to leave because it's too messy and too harsh. And the results will be, no matter what, unrewarded. Yes. So the same was with me. My personal example in 2009, Defina was crashing by 15% GDP down. It was a huge economic downturn, and I was, at that time, commissioner of Brussels with very good salary, very secure, personally, and financially. But I decided to go out from this personal security zone and to help government to tackle the economic crisis. So why I'm turning again to your example, why it is more quiet decisions are made where women are balancing and presented properly, that for women is important more the final goal and result and not the process. It's not the process we are interested in. It's glory, it's window dressing, it's baroque or a view, no. No matter what for us, what is important is to achieve the goal and we go for it. And if the goal is to help country in the war or in economic downturn, we will go no matter what. Even we know that there will be no reward. It's absolute risk. But then women is taking this risk and responsibility. In more peaceful time, oh no. Maybe stay with family, with kids and so on. So why, my own experience, my own observation in our region, in Europe for example, that women in difficult times go fast. And women get handed. You subscribe to the theory then that women generally in business or you get handed the messes. I don't know about business myself, but in politics we can handle. Mara, and I wanna ask about the arts. It's not that much different in the arts. I mean, I think, you know, certainly the music business is a microcosm of the broader society. And I think a few things you've both said really resonate with me. The fact that I think the opportunities, at least for me, arose the major opportunities when an organization was almost coming undone. And, you know, out of desperation, you know, they stopped judging with gender bias. You know, and they said, okay well it sounds like you actually have some ideas. So maybe you can do something. But whether you then ever get the credit for it, I mean, it's really fascinating. They still talk about the guy before me as though everything is a result of that. But he was never present. He never did anything for them. You know, it's fascinating to me. And then if I try to start an initiative, the motivation is always questioned. My motivation as a woman is always questioned. Why? Oh, I have no idea why. And then things like, it's so interesting in music because often the orchestra is used as an example in business of parody because we have blind auditions behind a screen. But the reality is that this process has not evolved in 30 years. And there's no humanity about it. And then at the last round, they always take the screen down anyway. No, seriously, this is what happens. And for the conductor, of course you can't do a blind audition. Maybe they should because you have to see the person. And everything about conducting is about body language. And if I do a certain gesture, it's interpreted entirely differently by society than if a man makes the same gesture. If I'm really delicate about something, I'm lightweight. If a man is delicate, he's sensitive. And if I'm really strong about something, they call me a name. But if a man is really strong, he's really strong. And so I have to actually think through my behavior and my gesture because that's what I use to communicate several times more in order to sort of de-genderize it in any way. So all of these things really do resonate with me. But I think crisis is a moment when women are allowed through because people are desperate and they let go of those biases. I wish we could let go of them at every moment. And this issue of glory and receiving all the accolades, I don't understand why society can't understand that we just want to make a contribution to better the world. Rebecca, can I make a comment? One of the comments that everybody has touched on here is just this whole notion of how we interpret women's behavior, women's style, women's choices differently from men. And that's my point on stopping labels because we tend to label those choices, those behaviors when they show up different from a legacy, probably outdated stereotype, frankly, for women and men. And we label them as lacking or less than, right? It's sensitive or it's light, right? Or it's, but all of those happen, right? Or we, or whatever those cases are, but we have to get at this labeling and we have to stop labeling women's behavior, women's styles as less than just because they show up differently. So you've mentioned the labeling issue. I'd like to go around the panel and ask what could be done? The numbers are just completely flat lining or maybe going backwards. You know, if there's a single thing that could be done and we are sitting here in Europe, there are some quotas. They're very controversial in the United States. Are we at a point where companies should consider quotas? If you want to call them goals, should governments? What do you think will be something that changes the dynamic? Kristi, I want to start with you. Yeah, look, I think, I would say a couple of things. I think that you do have to actually make an effort and you have to make a conscious effort and I've really seen that with my Prime Minister. He decided he was gonna have a 50-50 gender balance cabinet and something that he points out is, he didn't just decide that the day after the election. He decided that three years earlier when he was running and looking for candidates to run with him because he knew he wanted to do it and so he needed for there to be women already elected who he could appoint to the cabinet. So I think you do have to have targets. I think it's always better when you announce targets. So for us, having made a campaign commitment, that's an announced target. It can be pretty hard if you don't hit it. You have to plan and not think that this is something you can do right away. I mean, it's you have to build the pipeline. And then I think the third thing is you have to create the conditions where women can be successful and also where they want to be successful. You know, one of the things that I say when I'm home talking especially to groups of young women in high schools or universities is one of the things I really hate is a notion which sometimes young women and girls are sort of presented with which young men and boys are never presented with which is that they're gonna have to make a choice between having a rich and fulfilling family life and a career that they'll have to choose between being mothers and being professionally successful. And many people choose not to be parents and have great lives and that's a great choice. But what I really hate is when especially young women who are at the beginning of their lives when it is framed for them that you're gonna have to do one or the other. And I'm very passionate about it because I have three kids. And it's so important to me. They are the most important people in my lives and being their mother is the single most important thing for me. And I'm also Canada's foreign minister. And I think one of the things we do have to say to young women if we want them to go out and achieve things is they're not gonna have to make a choice to amputate themselves. I think that's really important and we have to not just say it but be sure that we're creating conditions where what we're saying turns out to be true. Maran, what would your one thing be? I think that this idea and commitment to being intentional about creating a different landscape is so important. I mean, just from my perspective and my little bubble of what I do when I was coming up I would only have one opportunity to prove myself. And the pressure was so enormous on conducting is it must be like some things where when you become the conductor you've never done it before. You need 40 people to come over to your house in order to practice, which you don't have, of course. So you stand up in front of all these experts and you have to do this new skill and be perfect at it and manage all of the egos that are going on. I mean, this is an impossible task. So I think creating opportunities where women can try things and fail successfully is really key to the future, at least from my perspective. Michelle, from your vantage point at the UN. Listen to Maran, I think that's very similar to politics. I have to say. Is it really? Yeah, yeah, ego and all that. I want to work with her. But, well, I think, first of all we need to visualize that it is possible with role models in the economics, in politics. We need to be intentional, as you say, in terms of developing all kinds of programs depending what you are. If you are a government, you're a political party or if you're a company who are interested in having senior leaders, female senior leaders, you need to sort of promote, support, encourage women to go that way. And you need to sort of do some mentoring because young people don't know many things. So you need to sort of, I mean, we have created networks of women SMEs, created networks with young people so they go into politics. So you can do a lot of things on that. But we also need to tackle the root causes because the root causes mainly are cultural, as we have been speaking, and you need to discuss that. I remember talking to a trade unionist, a female trade unionist, she was said to me, you know, to be listened at my meetings, I had to swear, to say dirty words, to say, you know, tell things. And I said, I will never do that. And once I was Minister of Defense and my mother called me and we're talking about something and then came my attaché and he said to me, whatever. And I said to her, please, can you do this? And then my mom said, are you sure that talking like that, they're gonna respect you? You know how militaries are. And I said, look, mom, I'm gonna do the leadership as I am. I'm not gonna transform myself in a man, so they respect me. And you know that, it works. Exactly right. Zalia, in Lithuania, you have a term limit, which is, you know, which is widely seen as good governance, but you are likely to be replaced by a man. Let's not predict because we have at least three leading candidates to men and women. Let's leave it for our people to decide. But if talking about forms and how we can invite more women to participate actively in politics or economy or in NGOs or even business, of course, in our, at least nearest region, quarters will not work because this makes a little bit bitterness of the feeling that somebody can be involved into something not based on excellence. And this in our society is taken not very well. And this is not working also for women well. So why it stays basis on excellence? For women that mean even twice to be better. It's not the same excellence. That's the most interesting thing that you need. And then you go to audience. Of course, you don't need to be rude or to have show some body language, you know, that way. No, no, it's not necessary, but you need to be absolutely stressful because you never lie. You know topic. You're responsible and you're honest. And this in audience could be felt by sixth sense. You don't need to persuade. You don't need to say, Jesus, I'm so stressful. Believe me, no, no. You don't need to say, never lie, never promise what you never will deliver. And that's it. And of course, it's not easy. And the special in politics. It's not populistic at all. You know, in my, for example, two runs, I was not promising really anything. I was saying only I will do the best what I can. But I was not promising that I will try to raise the salary up to this because this depends not on me, on a lot of reasons. So, and the main thing is to be stressful, to be very, very knowledgeable up to a few heads, even on your top, your possibilities. But that's hard, hard work, hard job. And not everybody, even men or women, decided to go that path. Without that, no quarters, nothing can help. You cannot impose by force respect or by laws respect, only by yourself and your examples. So why is not so easy? Because it takes a lot of time, effort, sacrifices. And it will be not easy in most of our countries. This also will depend very much on the level of education in society, the democratic quality or quality of democracy in our societies. All this matters. How much women will go fast in more peaceful times? But in more difficult times, believe me, women will go fast. May I add a little bit? Because I do believe in quotas. I mean, not for president, of course, of Prime Minister, but I've seen, I mean, if you permit business as usual, it will take us, what we said, 100 and eight years in politics, 220 years in economic leadership. So many times, if you want to develop sort of anti-discriminatory policies, you need to have, you can call it quota, you can call it targets, but you need to make people make the decision because you know what happened is not, you can have the best intention, but then political parties, they will present your names and all very good men names and the females without the capacity or so on. So I would say, because in my country we're elected directly, we're head of state and head of government, we don't have Prime Minister. So we appoint the, so what I would say many times, quota are needed until parity is a reality and then you don't need it. It's like any anti-discriminatory policy. You need to intend that and then you can lose it but leave it, but you need to, because otherwise it will take us so long and really the world needs women on board. Christiana. I just, if I may, wanted to offer a slightly discordant point but that I think is important to make when you talk about women and leadership and that is, I do think it is both wrong and dangerous for us to create some kind of image of women as better or perfect or uniquely virtuous. And I think it's dangerous because we're not and if we create that kind of image and expectation, we're always gonna fail. And I think that that, sometimes when I'm in conversations like this, you can sort of find yourself saying, oh, when you have women in positions of leadership, things will automatically be better. Sometimes they will, but sometimes you will have women who do bad things and the thing that one moment that has caused me to reflect on this a lot with a profound sense of disappointment is Aung San Suu Kyi who was I think a hero to very many of us. She was hugely admired in Canada and yet in her time in government, a genocide is being perpetrated against the Rohingya. So, and that is a reality. And so I think that we do, even as we talk about how having women in leadership is essential because by the way, women are 50% of humans and they should be. And I do think it's a different perspective. I just think it's also important for us not to create some kind of a false view that women are pure, cleaner, better, more caring, whatever it is. Another perspective somewhat linked to that. I think one of the other pieces that tends to be, we spend a lot of time talking about women promoting women, so developing succession plans for women. And I think we will not make the progress unless we engage men in the whole piece. We have to look at the total picture. This isn't a zero-sum game. It can't be women versus, that's not helpful. And just as all of us have bias and we see bias towards women as I talk about labeling, women also have bias. So we have to look at the total picture. And I have the privilege of working for a company with just some wonderful, wonderful colleagues, women and men, and we have to work it together. But the role of men has to be further developed in getting to gender equality. So Prime Minister Trudeau, as a proud Canadian, getting to a gender equal cabinet was a very bold declaration. And it wouldn't have happened without that intentionality, without the commitment, without the planning to get there because hope and aspiration isn't going to be a path for equal representation. So we have to have the plans and that intentionality. But we need men to help us with that. And there are some wonderful programs to drive dialogue and discussion around bias, around privilege, around power, which creates tremendous insight and awareness and helps to create an environment and a culture where both women and men can thrive. Outcome of the election in Lithuania and notwithstanding, we have seen a trend where men are replacing women in political office as CEOs. What is your responsibility as leaders to try to prevent that outcome? Or is that even a defeat necessarily? Should we be keeping score like this in a sense? There has been some talk that sometimes female leaders don't do enough, but it shouldn't only be the job of female leaders. And what is the role of men in all of this? So would you like to start or tell you? At least our understanding is that in democratic societies, you need to be very careful talking about some kind of successors. It's only up to people to decide. And I chose position that I'm not talking about any candidate at all. I am not intervening into the process of elections because I trust and I respect the opinion of my people. Yes, I will say that I still have more than 60% of acceptance, positive acceptance, after practically 10 years in office. It's in democratic society, quite high score. And of course, my word. Very high. Very high, yes. Many people would be very envious of that. And of course, my word will be influential, but that's exactly because of that. I cannot over push people's opinion around because I believe in our people and I respect the opinion of our people. And why it is not about successor? It's about probably my own example, my own needs, my own values, which could be compared with the candidates, values and positions. And that's the only thing I can allow myself, I think. Michelle and then Mark. Well, I think that what we can do when you're a leader is to promote excellent women and excellent men, so they can be fantastic candidates. Because you cannot say, after a woman has to come another woman, that's not necessarily so. I mean, what we need is women to have options, possibilities, opportunities to be there. But it's not that only after me a woman has to come. But we need to and we can in different positions to promote good women and men. And then will be the people, as you said, the sides, who they think represents better what they want for the future of their society, for the values of the society. But that's what I believe, we cannot look, there are countries where the president sort of raises a young future president, but I don't believe in that. I think you need to promote all fantastic people so they can go and do what they want to do. Marin, how do you see this playing out in the arts, which has admittedly even more challenges? I think again, because the arts, especially classical music, is a very conservative industry. And I'm always suspicious and concerned about people's, there's sense that, oh, we've ticked that woman box, so we don't have to go near that one again, because we had you. And I'm always, I wanna work hard to get the numbers up and so that they see so many women that it doesn't become about the one person and ticking that box. But I'm doing the best I can, that's all I can say. Caroline, then please. I think to what everybody has said, there are ways to make progress. We know how to do that, but we have to take the action. We spend a lot of time, from my perspective anyway, getting aligned on the intention and the aspiration for equality, but it is very much about the action to get there. It does take women and men, and it should be equality, it's not only about women, it's about women and men, and we have to find a way to continue to drive that equality. It's imbalanced today, it's not equal, and we have to address that, but the point is not to tip it in the other direction. Chris, yeah. Yeah, I agree with my colleagues. I mean, I think that we, I don't think we should be worried or anxious if a strong woman is replaced by a great man. In a way, that's a good sign because it shows that the role that she was playing was important enough that a man would do it. And we also shouldn't be worried when a man is replaced by a great woman. I also don't think that we should be anxious about the notion of having targets and of saying it is important to have women represented. And something that's interesting from the Canadian experience is we are very familiar as a vast country with the notion that our cabinet needs to have strong regional representation. There's a sense that every province, most provinces at least, really every province should have a minister in cabinet. And I think that makes a lot of sense because then you get that strong regional perspective and no one in Canada would challenge that. We think people feel rightly that that's how you're sure the whole country has a voice. And I think we should be very forthright about saying, you know what, women are half of the country and we need to be sure that they have a voice at the table too. So before we go to questions, I would like to ask each of you if you could somewhat quickly talk about a personal story or kind of an inflection point for you where you had the thought of I could be a leader. I could be a trailblazer. This is what I want to do. Could be when you were quite young, quite recently, but when you realized that you could do what you've accomplished? Never wanted to be a president. Never wanted to be a politician. But the time came, then I decided that there is no possibility or any chance to stand and watch from outside what's happening in country. And then countries started to fall into crisis. It was fully and only the feeling of responsibility that I am economist, a doctor of economics and I had an experience and I can cheer and take responsibility to help my country. That's it. Still, I don't feel myself as a politician. Still, I think I do the best I can, just as a person and everything will be evaluated by people and time. That's it. Well, as Dalia, I never wanted to be a president of the Republic. I was always, since I was a child, leader in terms of always putting initiatives, implementing it in many things, in sport, in music, in many things. I was a president of the class, all that kind of stuff. But I never felt a leader. I felt that I was doing what needs to be done and I will do happily for the rest of the people. I will serve the people. That was my feeling. But what had, and I never thought I would be a president of the Republic. So when I was first minister of health, nobody thought of me of a president of the Republic. What health is like, care provider, like feminine style. And then, but when I became minister of defense, this has started changing the things and there is one particular situation when there was floodings. So we send the militaries to help the population. So I went to see what they were doing and because it was so flooding, I had to go in a tank. So I was there wearing my military thing because it was raining and so on. And there's a picture. And you know what, wow, I went up because look, she can deal with militaries. So she can deal with a country problem. So all my friends were saying to me, can you lend me your tank please? All the ones who wanted to be there. But let me just, so I think, but and then people asked me because in the polls I started going up. I didn't intend that really. I mean, I'm really honest. And then people from my party said to say, are you willing to be? I'm not willing, but if you need me, okay, use me in terms of, and you will see because we will go to primaries or whatever. And suddenly I became president. And then twice. But the thing is that I was not working for it. But I should have mentioned something because I was supposed to be here as High Commissioner of Human Rights. But of course we are talking about all the other things. But I want to mention that Secretary General Tony Guterres has done a great job because he committed to 50% of gender parity in senior leadership. And this year in the UN or last year for the first time, we have 50, 50%. But now it's that we need to, that make it even at lower levels. So we really can represent humanity. Of course, you have mentioned 50% of humanity women, 50% are men, and that needs to be represented because experience are different and perspectives sometimes are different. Marin. Well, it sounds like we're all sort of fell into this out of a need. But I just want to tell you a little story. I started an after school program for kids in West Baltimore to learn to play instruments. And I was visiting and sitting with the little ones and there's a little girl sitting next to me, maybe nine, 10 years old, and a little boy. And the boy leans over and Miss Marin, Miss Marin, I want to be a conductor. And the girl smacks him on the leg and says, boys can't do that. So, I mean, I said, of course you can't, don't be ridiculous. But secretly I was really pleased. Caroline and Chrissie. You know, I think similar to what a number of people have said, I probably grew up leading in some ways, but didn't understand that and grew up in our Canadian business and had a, I'm gonna give it a slightly different spin, but had a different experience. My dad was a farmer, my mom was a school teacher, that wonderful rural combination. And so my dad vacuumed way more than my mom ever did. And it was a very equal household. And then I went to Toronto and a very multicultural city. And then I went to Baltimore. And I joined my first all male lead team. And so I had been a leader and I'd been doing these things and I just didn't think about it. And in my very first leadership team meeting, my manager said to me, we're so happy to have you here because you're gonna add diversity to our team. And I paused for a minute and I thought, and I had to process. And then I went, oh, because I'm Canadian. And that's what I said. And the entire leadership team laughed. And I thought, oh, okay, you know. And then it was literally two months later that I was like, oh, it's another woman. So that notion of, if you lead, and for me it was work hard, do your best. Equality was really important in our household. There was no getting away from that. And so that's a very core value. And I think the more we can do that, we'll make more progress. Christia, you started as a journalist. That's true. So I, listening to everyone, really interesting how I am hearing people kind of saying I never wanted the job I ended up with. And I wonder if part of the reason that that is how we think of our lives is because we're women and women are not supposed to be too ambitious. So I just share that as a thought. Having said that, I have exactly the same feeling about myself and my current job. And I think maybe politics has a particular characteristic where I feel with politics, if the quest is in politics for the leadership role, you're probably doing it for the wrong reasons. And in politics specifically, it should be, as Dalyanne and Michelle have both said, it should be because you want to do something for the people you are hoping to represent. It should be about service, not actually about leadership. I think that is the only positive approach to politics in a democracy. Exactly, yeah, no, for all people. It shouldn't be about being the fancy leader. It should be about serving your people. So we're gonna open it up to questions very quickly. Could you please stand up and identify yourself if you have a question? And panelists, I think we should probably only have one or two of us answer because there are a lot of questions. One going back there and then I'll, we'll bring it to you, okay. Hi, my name is Balavi Gugoy. I am the Chief Business Editor at NPR. I just wanted to give a couple of statistics. I'll have a question on the second one. The first is we're discussing female leadership at a tipping point at a time when just 6% of CEOs of the S&P 500 of the five largest companies in the U.S. at least are women. The other point that I wanted to make is that women still earn just 80 cents for every dollar that men earn. The question to you and your all leaders, what can be done about that? Pay equity is an important issue. Carolyn, you're the business rep. What's critically important is again, a quality based policies. We have to get to the quality based policies which include sufficient paid maternity leave, sufficient paid paternity leave. We have to make men and women equal partners at home. Equal pay for equal work is a hygiene factor. We have to do that. But we also have to be very cognizant of, from a pay gap, pay equity important, of the wealth gap we contribute to when we don't get women to the very tops of companies. There's a tremendous earning potential there. And so there's hygiene factors and then we've got to continue to work at the higher bar of equal representation. But equality based policies, flexibility for men, flexibility and the expectation that men play a role at home which enables women to continue to bring their full self to work. I have an amazing partner and there's no way I could do what I do and I did want this job. I love this job, you know? Yay! But we have to have the support, however that is and whatever that partner and support system is, but you have to have that. And we need the policies or good employment practices to make sure we can deliver that. And just jump in? Just to add a little bit. That depends on the culture of the country. For example, me living in the United States, it was so surprising that you didn't have a lot of things. For us, maternity leave was 60 years before the US, or 100 years. So in some, because we've had the social policies that became laws that should be respected by everyone. So it will depend on the culture of the country. My country's very legalist, so laws will permit that everyone needs to respect, not everyone respected, but at least, you know. So you create the necessity, if people are not aware, they have to do it. And so there are different ways of doing it, depending on the tradition, the culture, or where you are, at which point you are. We're not at the tipping point yet, either, no. Okay, there's a question up here. Let's stand and identify yourself. Hi, I'm Hilary Pearson, I'm a Canadian. And I'm always pleased to see Canadian women leading here. I want to ask a question about the next generation. It would have been great to have a young woman up here, I think, not that you're all old. Yeah, take it, Hilary. We're taken. We're good, we're in the prime of life. But I do, the question I want to ask is, do you think that millennial women, or women who are younger, are thinking of leadership differently? And does technology facilitate that too? Because to be a leader, you have to feel confident in your voice. And I think the technologies, especially the digital technologies we've all been talking about, facilitate that lifting of voice in a way that is quite striking. I have a 26-year-old daughter, and I must say her expectations and also her capacity to lift her voice and to lead, even at her young age, when she doesn't have that much experience, is quite striking to me. So what do you think about that? Anyone want to take that? I can take, technology matters. I have all advice on something twice as young as me. And one of the reasons, I need to catch up and learn to get with them. So why I'm posting myself on Twitter, or on Facebook, or on other cyber space? Because if you are not adapting as politician to new communication formats, you have no voice. And it's not about age. It's about how capable you adapt to very fast developing world, and especially in communication, why politics is any more not traditional at all. You can go from door to door, but in most of our countries is not met at all. Sometimes you could win general elections, even only being on internet and television, and that's it, and not even shaking the hands with your people. Is it good? I'm not now evaluating this. I'm only saying that the world is changing, globalization and technology revolutions are very much influencing it, and politics is changing. Now, about age and could 26 years old person be very much had, visible, and do a lot on internet? Yes. Then I started in my first term, almost all my advices were 25. I was 50. And we were very visible, especially on cyber, and we used all technologies possible. But that didn't made them neither politician, neither elected people, because they lacked experience, experience not only in politics, but also human experience. So this combination needs to be anyway, somehow integrated, technology, experience, education, everything together. Christia, just quickly. Oh, go ahead. I was gonna say that I think we're all committed though to also creating as many opportunities for young women coming up behind us. I have a fellowship I started in 2002 for young women conductors that's really made an impact. But the greatest byproduct is that everyone that's gone through the program has each other. Then they develop a community of support for themselves. And I just wanted to say that I've been incredibly impressed with the young global leaders here at Davos. And they have curiosity and interest and they have each other, which I think creating community is really important. I think it's a great question. And I do think that younger women are behaved differently. And the single biggest difference I would say is they're less worried about hiding the fact that they're women, if you know what I mean. And I think like when I think about the feminists of the 1970s, my mother was one. First generation really breaking through into the workplace. They felt they had to kinda act like men to be taken seriously. And even for myself, I remember when my first child was born, there was a lot, I felt there was a lot of anxiety around me about whether I could do my job with a baby. So I sort of tried to pretend I didn't have one, which is hard to do. And I compare that with my colleague, Corinna Gould, who's our minister of democratic institutions. And she had a baby as a cabinet minister. And the baby is part of her political life. Like the baby comes to the House of Commons. The baby sometimes comes to cabinet. And it's wonderful. The baby cheers us all up. And it's just a very different, much more self-confident, wonderful approach. I wanna add something very small because I'm the only one here, and I'm not trying to do a terrible difference, that I come from the South. And not from European or Western countries. And to your answer, there's not a general answer for that because the world is so uneven. I mean, young people in Africa and Asia, they, I mean, some of them are still trying to survive. So not all of them have in the same position. But having said that, I have met fantastic leaders. But usually they're individuals. They're not sort of a big movement. But we also have in Latin America, where I belong, huge movements of Me Too or Nuna Menos that was fighting against female femicide. So it is an uneven world. You will find places with youth. It's fantastic. It's harnessing progress. Another place where there still are subjects of really bad treatment, discriminated, and so on. So we need to work in all different areas with different strategies. One last question over there. And we are basically out of time, so. Thank you so much. I am from China. I'm a global shipper. Thank you so much for this speech. And I have a question about, you were talking about empowering young girls. Cause I remember in Marine in the crystal award, you mentioned that you were able to pursue a passion because your parents said that why not? And that happens to a lot of speakers, including Sky. He mentioned that he can pursue his passion because his parents tell him why not. But for a lot of girls in Asia, for example, in rural China or in rural India, they don't have parents with them. They don't have these role models like this. They don't know you exist. So I'm wondering, do you have any exposure to programs like this or will you support programs like this to empower young women or young girls in those communities? And I really like your program in Baltimore. Thank you very much. Thank you. May I say, in India in particular, there was a moment that one million women were elected at the local level. And it changed the mind of fathers because parents would not send to school the children because they felt that women, the girls, they need to. But when they saw that women could play an important role, girls wanted to go to school and their parents too. So that's why to have women role models is so important. That's why young global leaders are so important. Really quickly, Carolyn, Kristine. I think there's many ways that we can help influence and provide that without a physical role model. We're doing some work with Sesame, with the Sesame Foundation, which is really all about public announcements, the Sesame programs, which really show girls and boys. It shows people of different cultures in the local community. And if you can, the role of pop culture can really have a positive influence. And it can be a role model in absence of a physical role model, whether it's the Sesame program, whether it's advertising. We're very committed to use our voice in advertising to really help tackle bias and show people the possibilities. So I think popular culture can play and is playing a pretty significant role. And with social media being as ubiquitous as it is, I think that's becoming an even more influential play. Kristine, why don't you close this out quickly? OK, so very quickly, I think that is an excellent question. And I would just like to follow on a little bit along the lines of what Michelle was saying, which is, in some ways, 99% of what we've discussed are very important issues, but kind of high level problems. And there are many parts of the world where women suffer extremely severe discrimination and repression, places where women legally are lesser than men, places where women are the targets of rape as a weapon in war. And I hope we're all feminists here. And I think we feminists, even as we have an obligation to support the women in our own communities and in our own countries, also have an obligation to support the women around the world who suffer from much greater obstacles and repression. And for Canada, that's why we have a feminist foreign assistance policy. Our foreign assistance is cheap, overwhelmingly targeted at women and girls. And that's why we have a feminist foreign policy. I would like you all to join me in thanking our panelists. We're more optimistic than pessimists.