 The question that gets leveled as well against the quote conspiracy side is, well, how could so many people be quote in on it, right? Like how could all the scientists, how could all the politicians, how could all these people be in on something, you know, governments can barely organize, you know, anything like how could they possibly, you know, all be in on something like this. And so for me, I really tried to understand, yeah, how is it that people can participate in something unawares and yet somehow be, be willing, right? And I think you're speaking to adhere as well, but also, you know, looping it back to earlier on in the conversation around, like a certain paradigm of, I don't know what you call rational materialism, which is always looking to exert more control, maybe that's like one way to say it. And you wrote an essay called the conspiracy myth, which I think touched on this. And so for me, again, I want to, in some ways, speak to how the quote, the anti-vax side that I've done research in and spoken to, you know, there does seem to be a strong thread of there isn't a various elite at the top, you know, Bill Gates or whoever's in on it. They're doing this on purpose, this and that. And yet you had a really, I think helpful frame on this, which, I mean, I could just read it here actually, if this could be jump off point for this question. You said in the conspiracy myth, I explored the idea that the controllers of the new or older order are not a conscious group of human evildoers, but our ideologies, myths and systems that have taken a life on their own. It is these beings who pull the puppet strings of those we normally believe to hold power, but they, yeah, you go on from there, but basically that essentially it's sort of an emergent property of the system is the way I take it. And so again, I feel like that's really important also to maybe spend a bit of time on like, how is that possible that, you know, people can be involved in something again, unawares on, on, on, on all sides. Yeah. So it could very well be that there are some highly psychopathic individuals among the elites, which is true. Like I should say, yeah, that's very likely true. Like, as in, you know, the hierarchical systems, you know, put people in power that have those. Yeah, so that all the Stalin's, the Hitler's, I mean, there's evidence that we live in a system that actually rewards psychopathic behavior in terms of placing them in high positions of political or industrial or military power. Yeah, yeah. And so there could be a conspiracy among those people to, you know, dominate the world. But if so, the question still remains, why are they able to do that? Given that there must be very few of them. As you were saying, there can't be a lot of people in on it, you know, and you talk to most, I mean, pretty much every doctor or scientist or even politician that I've known personally or, you know, billionaire. I'm not seeing a lot of fiendish evil there. You know, I'm seeing people who are pretty much like everybody else who might have some, you know, blind spots, you might have some, you might be very good at justifying everything that they do. But, you know, not like, like gibbering Mr. Burns schools, like Mr. Burns, yeah, like that. So, so, you know, and even Bill Gates, like, I mean, I think he's responsible for a lot of harm in the world, but probably he believes himself to be doing a lot of good in the world. Probably he believes in this vision of bringing all the world into one gigantic data set that can be rationally administered for the good of all. So, of course, you want to track everybody. Of course, you want to have biometric interfaces in people's bodies that are implanted so that you can protect them and protect others from contagion. I mean, this whole vision makes sense in a way. And that makes it a lot harder to fight what's happening because if you set up, say, Bill Gates as just someone evil, you're not going to understand him. You're not going to understand where he's coming from. You're not going to understand the, the systems and ideologies that will give birth to another Bill Gates and another Bill Gates and another Bill Gates, even if you tear this one down. So, and at the same time, yeah, there could be, you know, satanic elites, human trafficking elites, you know, who, I mean, it kind of even makes sense that in a world that is run along principles of domination and control, that these would take an extreme form in certain shadows of the society. And there wouldn't necessarily have to be that many of them. Like, look how a mob works. All you need is a few ringleaders to say, go lynch that person over there. And then maybe a bunch of people, they go along with it enthusiastically, because they've been primed with an ideology that says those people over there are unclean. Okay. And then the majority of the mob, they're like, well, I don't know, but it looks like everybody else thinks that they're unclean, you know, and need to be lynched. And I'm not going to speak up if I speak up. I'm going to again, and everybody can't be wrong, you know, and, and then, and then there's those who are like, Oh my God, this is terrible. But I better keep my mouth shut in silent protest. So all those people keeping their mouth shut, make it look like the mob is unanimous, when actually it could be a very few manipulative, cynical leaders who may not themselves even believe in the guilt of those that they are inciting the mob against. So take that and, and write it large to our whole society. It could be something like that. And then it brings up the question again, what allows the mob leaders to be so, to be so effective? What is it in our psyche, in our, in our way of being human that allows us to be manipulated, manipulated like that? And this takes it back to these in-group, out-group dynamics, these, these Jordanian ideas that I was sharing before.