 At 6 0 5 this evening. Thank you everybody for coming appreciate your attendance and so Any agenda revisions at this point? Important discussion I know there are some things that have to be talked about it Time meeting prep Begging us to kind of address the building use policy We also we have to deal with the Judge teach out waiver because that is dude do tomorrow so three one three two three three and three six Three one three two three three six so far. That's okay So we'll do with we'll go through those and then see what what our time looks like Hey, Caroline, and Okay, okay, so I'm gonna welcome guests any public comments This is a good time to do it yet I Came up here and spent a couple of hours on December 28th initially being with a group of people who Had an interest in the issue and sort of represented Naked card and peak contest from the school. We're here at Barry Bolio in the school theater program That should pure out the sound guy From that exact sound and The theater designer and looking people from the dance team committee And we spent time talking about what they need what the issues were the goal as far as any goes was to get an analysis of sort of a sound profile of the gym and what kinds of Renovations or changes would need to be done in order to deal with the acoustical issues and We we talked specifically about something that was raised at the November meeting of the school board And that was a concern about kids who are impacted by sort of unlimited sound in the gym So we flagged that for him And we are expecting his report either late next week or the following week when we get it obviously we'll share it with the board and Step by step, I don't want to let you know what was happening Great. Thank you very much. I have a quick question. Was his assessment subjective Or did he produce sound in areas of the gym and then measure it in all this equipment? Okay, so he it's an engineer's analysis. Great. So yeah, it wasn't just walking around and Sort of getting a sense of the place Okay, thanks very much We're on to 2.1 approval of the minutes for December 12th 2013 2018. Is there a motion? I'm sorry December 13 2018 minutes. Is there a motion? I said I wasn't there so I don't think I can. Oh, I'm moved to approve second Yeah, so I can start there. You know any objection Any any comments on the minutes of the accuracy of the minutes? the only thing that I Wanted to add just to clarify in regard to our How we prioritized how we were getting guidance and prioritization I want to be clear that when I was wanted to go under the 30,000 that we're being recommended reducing our funding to the capital fund. It was much less than 30,000. I didn't want that. I thought I made that clear. So I just want to make sure the minutes look like that. What section was that? I'm sorry, page 2, the very end of On page 2, it's the third to last. So you want to say reduce capital funding of my much less? Yes. Yeah, so I Chris had said specifically 30. I specifically said 30. I Think Brian was really clear that he wanted less than 30. I don't remember that voting gave an amount So if that helps any other changes They're all in favor. Hi. Hi Next is there a motion for approval of the minutes from December 19, 2018? Any comments Okay, move to approve So moved. All in favor? So now we're up to 3.1 we have the budget discussion I think and I can I go back to 1.3 public comments and correspondence? Sure in May we had agreed about a response that we would give and I'm not sure if the board isn't being copied or if the responses aren't going out, but being way back to November There was a little bit of inconsistencies with the replies people would get Because Chris had replied to one, you know saying thank you for your correspondence Other people didn't get any response And so if we could go back to what we agreed in May about having the clerk just say I think it was something like thank you for your response We will be discussing this at the next meeting and somebody would get back to you because I feel like Our agendas have been quite full we haven't been getting to all the items and because of that We have this backlog of emails where we have not discussed it as a board and come up with a response to people And I don't know that they're waiting for it, but it feels a little Like we're missing on that goal of having better communication with our community. I Don't know what you're talking about as far as emails. I can do I'll look up the original response and re-forward it to everybody But I'm not sure what sounds great, but I don't what I don't know which ones you're talking about which emails Did with a email sent to the school board as yeah, so like Sorcia Anderson was one who sent an email back in November I didn't see any reply to her Okay, wasn't she taught wasn't her email actually to bill though and didn't he and copied us and then I didn't he respond And generally I do not respond right but I thought she sent to so I thought she sent one to bill and CC does okay I Thought she sent one directly to us. I can look back But there have been several And of course up between the lawsuit and Okay matters as well Okay, so what won't do this be a future agenda item to? Address all the backlog emails that we have and put them on for discussion. Yeah, our next for me. I think that's perfect. Okay, thanks And if anyone has it the categorization of the backlog Sharing it with everybody else would be great just because then we'll be on the same page. Okay Okay, great. Thank you. So now we'll be on budget trap number three Gena 3.1. Yep, and I think there's some so a couple of things. Yeah, let me give you a general review Some things and then I think I need to do a little bit of almost workshop here to get folks up to speed on the budget and how it reads so Based on some questions that Allison and forward did me so The budget they have in front of you. I sent you a memo on in the front of this which is on page Seven at the last meeting you remember we were a hundred and seven thousand dollars above the threshold. Yeah for spending a lot of spending As of this moment were thirty thousand dollars above the threshold based on the direction that he gave us Which was to look at everything but personnel So we did that we looked at You had made a decision as a board to reduce the transfer to the capital fund by thirty thousand So there's a sixty thousand dollar transfer and this a budget that you have I don't think we made a decision as a board I think board member board members that gave that advice, but it wasn't a agreed-upon Board directed We individually listed it as our order of priority. It was an option you were exploring options, but whatever, okay You took that into account in your yes, it's in this it's in the amount that you're seeing right here great. You will also see that We had since that time we had finished open enrollment for health care and with one of our we had had our One of our teaching positions was not quite full-time and that person worked as a para educator and We had filled that we historically filled it that way that person it's not something that we That we have a need we have a need for but not a high-level need for it if you get you know Trying to look for places to cut so that's one that's in that plus the health care reduction is about fifty eight thousand dollars and change Just put my spirit. What's the health care reduction? Can you describe that more so what happens? We have people when they decide to every January one is open enrollment Oh, okay, this is okay now Change their enrollment status from their single two-person family parent child or family, okay? And people change their status. That's what you got. All right, so that was a total of fifty two thousand dollars We also had more money that we always are modeling because December 1st is the time for teachers to let us know if they Have enough credits to move on the salary scale over another column And we call those horizontal moves and that reduced it by sixty five hundred dollars So a total we had almost ninety thousand dollars worth of reductions Including the sixty thousand dollar transfer twenty thirty thousand dollars 30. Okay. Yeah, yeah so it's With that that got us to where we're thirty eight thousand dollars over the threshold As of today we've been looking at some energy modeling Just this year alone we usually do a three-year average for energy But this year alone just this morning Laura and I were looking some energy modeling It looks like we might say save overall about seven thousand dollars in energy compared to this year's budget So if you wanted to take another seven out you could we could get it down to about 30 over without looking at personnel the What I wanted to do was go through there some questions about the budget So I wanted to look at these columns I'm gonna go right to page nine ten and I wish do we have the we have an overhead in here Maybe that would be good for everyone to see that We haven't over is there a document camera over there. No, there isn't unfortunately Okay The if you look at this budget and the way it sits this left-hand column is the actual From fiscal year 2018. That's last year's budget. That's what we actually spent The next column is the budget for this school year 2019 and Then we have projected adjustments that are in the third column and The fourth column all the way to the right is the budget for this year. That's being proposed for not this year Sorry for FY 20, which is the proposed budget that you're looking at Okay, so those this is why it's printed just like this in the town report Yep, those those four columns. So you get one year of actuals you have to last this current year's budget What we're projecting because we always adjust it to try to look at lines what's happening and then what we're budgeting for this year Got it. Okay, and so we're going to January. We're doing a fiscal year January to January. Nope No, our fiscal year is one Ryan the same as school years July July 1st to June 30th We all and so the fiscal the way you do fiscal years is the second year of the school year is the fiscal year So when I say FY 20, which is next year that's 19 20 school year this year's fiscal year is fiscal year 2019 school year 18 19, okay, so that I think that came into why there are a bunch of questions that you had Allison because it actually There's differences then they'll change some of the questions. Yeah, I thought this was fiscal year I couldn't figure it out based on the one year like why does it not say two years? And so then I thought it was fiscal year and I tried to look it up online And it was I don't think everybody does their budget the same all schools run these have to run this budgets in the state of Vermont The exact same way all right by handbook to okay So we're all required to do that So some one of the first questions that you had I'm just going to go right down through the questions Can we get some perspective on IEP versus tier two students in associated costs? So I'm gonna have Amy talk about the services people are providing I can tell you right now the total sped costs in this budget for next year are 454,000 I'm just gonna stay to the thousand instead of rent, you know And what that is is if you want to look at the budgets know where you would go to that you would go to page 11 and you would see two parts the instructional services special ed, which is 257,000 as a total and then the hundred and ninety six almost a hundred ninety seven thousand That's a net cost coming from the SU because if you remember the statute requires that all Services except for para educators for special education runs through the supervisory union, but So we charge a net cost to the building So what we're actually paying is a hundred ninety six thousand that two hundred fifty seven thousand is there for Illustrative purposes. No that is there for your para educators that work in this building that are providing special ed services But that's the part of it that's paid directly out of the Romney budget and the one they're both the one ninety six is to pay directly out of the Romney budget in this current year configuration, okay For next year will be a different as we take this and put it together with the other budgets as we're ordered to do That will be a different methodology Remember we were asked by I'll let me get some context for folks in the house We were asked by the executive committee to fill budgets this year by individual schools And then if there was a force merger To push it to pull them all together and so we're in the midst of doing that right now And before we hear from Amy, I just wanted to get clarification about the question and kind of what the purpose of it is because I'm Don't know if it's because I have more of an understanding of What each one means? I'm not sure what we're going to get out of Getting more specific about the Cost associated with each because I feel like it's one thing to categorize EST versus IEP for educational purposes and Plans and for the school in terms of what's done But as a board and for the cost and it's it's all about need and Unless we have some concerns that the school doesn't have you know appropriate systems for designing that I'm not Sure how the answer to the question is going to guide our work. So I'll tell you how for me it was because I Was thinking outside the box and I was thinking about what what are the what's the other low-hanging fruit here? It's all going to be health care and teacher salaries and the most of the rest of these things are fixed costs that I just There's not really anything we can do about them. So I'm wondering okay. So what if we offered a Subsidy to people who moved here and rented with kids for a year if you have you know You have one or more children you move to Romney. We're gonna pay you $2,000 a year How would that work out? And they're okay, but what if we get kids that have special needs is that gonna actually make it worse? And so budget-wise just budget-wise, so so we can we not meet their needs? Yeah It's not a business it's not a business a statutory you can't do that type of thing Okay, you don't have money to give because the state Gives you money to run your budget. That's approved by the voters. It's state money that comes in right and So when we go through our audited and of our stats reports They've become in the end of August if we do something that's a deemed a non educational expense The there will be a penalty to you as a school district and then there will be funds at the town of middle-sex will have to Develop on its own so like the select board could do that, but you couldn't all right So I was just I mean that was something I was trying I mean if we had five more students Our budget problems would look much less dire if we had seven more students We wouldn't have any budget problems as far as I can tell because from counting up the numbers of students It seems like we would still be within sort of the the maximum number of students per classroom So I was just thinking how could we attract students here? And I think it also would depend on the age of the students like if we got seven first graders I think that would be a Problem I mean all welcome them right, but right like all at the same time to have right because there's already 21 maybe in that class and so that would push it to 28 and so so eight students, I mean more students is helpful, but it's Yeah, I think it's the ongoing looking at the population trend like over the next five years It's not like seven students right now I know I agree. I just trying to like what what else can we look at? And so that's where that question came from is me trying to figure out Like could could we actually shoot ourselves in the foot if we tried to invite more students here? I'm sorry. I just think it like I don't know I think if things like a business even though this is not a business I get that but and the other thing that I was thinking of would be health care costs And I don't know if we contract out. Do we pay our own health care costs? But we just like, you know, some of the administers it so we are part of our raw education hire Health care initiative known as V high also, it's a self-insured that all schools are part of so it's like part of the The VSC is part of that as well The VSC is not part of that. They're part of something else. Okay And it's about the second or third largest health care Consortium in the state and it's self-insured and it's self-insured and actually if you've heard the governor next year We'll be taking over the negotiations and running up that not the governor, but the state government will be doing Instead of local districts. So our health care increase, which is one of the questions you had later Which I've been saying since is 12% were locked into that. Okay. I mean, you know for next year, so We're actually losing because of people changing their enrollment status The cost for health care is decreasing by $13,000 for in this next budget and that's in there So the other part you asked was what's the cost to your two services? So looking at all the people that are employed looking at the people and the amount of them that are employed for the Different positions to do that work And Amy's going to go over it the total cost of tier two services is about $253,000 And so that's going to be ESTs and things like that ESTs kids who need She's Amy's gonna explain that Well, it sounds like we couldn't really use it anyway, so I'm sorry So we have a reading interventionist that does both the boost as well as EST You know great news is that we're seeing more and more kids shift Kind of the rinse and repeat cycle to actually exiting boost before they have to are required to get a EST So that's a very positive thing She's 13 students on her case like right now and those will be shifting because of exits We also have Math intervention in a similar kind of model Right now that position is split a little he sees 10 plus supports One grade levels math for tier one Because of the intensive needs in that room Our Student support specialist He actively is seeing Approximately six to eight students on a regular basis for check-in check-outs Some behavior monitoring that type of thing, but is also doing whole school consultative weekly Work with teachers and is developing behavior plans that type of thing and is our fallback When there's a tier three need that needs to be overseen and Then finally our MTSS coordinator is currently seeing 10 students working half-time and Also doing specific work with students at recess That ranges from push in with executive functioning work to strategy building As well as collaboration with classroom teachers She's also supporting a grade one math To help with some of the Habits of learning type of thing with students in addition to that there's also support that's given with Refining our sSTs and our ESTs And some of those are new positions right like the MTSS position we added this year And I will say that was critical in our first few months as we were Taking on some students new student needs Are you pretty happy with your the system that you have right now for Dealing with kids in tier two and above. I think we're in a good spot that allows us to be reflexive to where students are and to also effectively Move them forward. So I think there's things that are still being developed within MTSS she's looking at doing some clubs around some of the function building Doing more small group work as opposed to one-on-one But those needs we're just kind of getting to a point in the year that our system because Her use has been deployed into other areas of high need We're finally getting back to that tier two zone, but we kind of encountered the same thing with The student support specialist also, but that was part of the design is really that we could really handle as a system Strategically have taking on kids with high needs that were not expected I remember last year It was reported that it was either 20 or 25 percent Of our students were on ESTs Which if I remember Bill you said that that was compared to rough on average like 5% of students across the SQ is are we Do you have a sense of Like new numbers or are we still at that? I would have to look them up I mean there's several things that are encompassed within ESTs. I mean they can be speech and language services that are That are separate from IEPs that are sort of Gathered up in that sort of way I do feel like we are having more success in not having kids get to the point of needing an EST Which is really that point where you're trying to decide do they need a deeper or not So I think it's good news that We're having several kids kind of get back up to a grade level and not need additional services Do you think you have adequate resources? I feel like the RMTSS system is really working So the next next question was what can we get more detail about the services at the Romney that the Romney School purchases through their central office assessment WCSU assessment. So this is something that's been in the town report for a couple of years And so I may have brought a copy of it with me That this is last year's page. We haven't created one for this year because of where we are in the merged budget piece So you can the numbers aren't correct for the amount of share But you can see the list of what comes from the different major categories and the costs last year through last year's assessment So you can see I Thought it was probably the easiest and best way to answer your question Allison Here's a list of everything that happens that way. I do want to point out through technology services almost It's we're talking about technology in a little bit We buy most of our software system-wide. There are some things that are done at each school, but very little So within that technology services is a software charge And that's something new this year just because it's it's cheaper for us to buy it in larger quantities Your next question your third question was what's the $25,000 increase in fair educator salary under instruction? And it actually wasn't Increased I think this was how why I wanted to explain the columns. It's under instruction There's actually it's being reduced from this current budget year of 58,000 to 36,300 next year Under instructional services and it was budgeted at that this year But projected to be lower because the teacher that was doing part-time About a point one a FT decide not not to do when we were able to take care of the student need without refilling that position Okay, great. Okay, and we'll continue on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's where we're going in the future I went over the four columns again Did I explain that enough? Thank you very much. Okay You asked about a principal split with Dodie has been proposed and proposed for many years that's come back and forth There's a school quality regulation that says if there's over a total over a total of 10 FT ease or greater in a school. You must have one principle Full-time principle both Dodie and Romney have one full-time prince have over that number of FT ease of teachers It doesn't count pair educators And so that regulation Requires that we have one full-time principle at each it actually made Dodie two years ago We went through our equality review having they used to have a teaching principle and we had to go to a full-time principle It's the education quality standards which are done by there It's for it's it's a regulation that's called for by Vermont law Not the individual piece because it calls for the regulations to be set by the state school board I mean, there's like there's hundreds. I mean we could probably go into 200 different pieces. They're in the equality standards Yeah It's a legal requirement I mean regulation calls has the same powers. It makes sense. I didn't really it seems sort of It didn't seem possible that one. I mean Amy works like all the time as far as I can tell and I don't know the principal Doty, but I imagine he's plenty busy. So it doesn't really seem like you could possibly Yeah Parasauries in various categories seem low. How can we get a feel for where the parasites? I'm going to map you back to the budget So the pair education salaries are in a couple of places within the budget And the reason for that to be most the majority of the pair educators are under the instructional services for special education on page 11 But our pair educators perform duties which are not allowed reimbursable and cannot run through the special ed budget Okay, so that's why there's bits and pieces in all over the place You got it and then the health care also gets broken up. You got it. Okay, great We take the FTEs and if you looked at our personnel spreadsheet, you would see how we We're down the hundreds of FTEs to make sure that we meet all the federal requirements on special ed First man, okay, and they do time studies, right? Yep twice a year So the amount Based on the time study that our pair has spent for Non-special education. Is it in line with other schools? Pretty much. I mean, is it mostly contractually based so like No, it's mainly it's different schools have different amounts of duties and how they program the duties that the principals have The leeway to make that work as long as we can make it work in the budget We don't we don't have something our ESP contract that says With a pair educator, we have a lot of leeway conditions working conditions. So I guess I mean like if there's something in the teachers contract like Teachers get a duty-free lunch at the time their students eat lunch Basically, it means you right ours doesn't say that I don't believe it says it at that time But we have a duty-free lunch. We also have a planning period. That's a lot of times why those Yep, and that would be then the whole SU wide has that same amount of time I Prep and lunch would be the same roughly roughly, but I can't it came in really say roughly because It doesn't know okay, we made a nice agreement our teachers and our ESP have been We found a way that it could work for both to stay away from minutes and hours We actually work on a contracted week 37 and a half hour weeks that way it gives flexibility if I'm a teacher and I don't have anything to do at the end of The day, I mean I have plenty to do but if I've got to go if I'm a parent and I need to get yeah Megan my daughter to an appointment and school ends at 335 and I got to leave at 340 And I don't have an IEP meeting to be at I can go I don't need to wait till a clock said, you know Until you know where it works in most schools. Hey, and it just works and that's what gets us our Wednesday afternoons to be longer Yeah, so we can do more because people everyone agreed if we needed more time for our media or professional planning time So the regular ed salaries for Paris is roughly in line with other schools Other elementary schools. I'm not sure what you're asking Total or per para? Total for Paris or for our teachers Paris. Okay, so for Paris we have I'm gonna give you some figures here about para educators I'm gonna write it up here because I only have one sheet. This is literally today If I look at the different schools so It seems louder than usual is there something special That's not people that nobody just wrote six I do that a lot great. Okay. Thank you. No. No. Thank you Christian. So I wanted to give you some data I'm gonna tell you some things that are happening So this is currently right now and I can tell you what's gonna happen in budget at least at one of the schools So we've been looking a lot at BI and I put pairs in the eyes appear. So behavior interventionist So we've been looking a lot at that and what our what are para educators doing as you know from the summer work We've been talking about who's doing instruction and that there are many studies that tell us that a highly qualified teacher Doing instruction instead of a para educator gets better results. I mean there were multiple there's meta analysis It's done on that So that's not just a couple studies UVM is one of many places that that's happened. I could name others as well But at U32 just to read this there's 114 students on an IEP There are nine sped teachers and there are 23 paras next year to get in their budget the When the board told us we needed to get below 3% We're cutting seven pairs for next year. So that number will be reduced by seven The callus there are 19 students on IEPs two sped teachers and five twenty three of these are behavior interventions from Washington County mental health and Cal's two years ago Reduced five pairs and went to two teachers to provide instruction didn't they go up from one teacher to two Yep, they went up from one day. It's about two and a quarter cost-wise. I'm just giving you cost Okay, because it's about member. I said it's about $50,000 total cost for a para educator in about 75 to $80,000 for a teacher Total cost and when you 32 is reducing the pairs by seven Yeah, is that being done? in collaboration with the special educators the principals and The special ed director from central office, or is it at the building special ed director as well So all of them are involved in like reviewing in the IEP Determining how to make that shift some yes some no because if the high school runs a little different Yeah, and the elementary schools, but Kelly's done this work How else we did that's exactly what happened. Okay, the special educators sat down Looked at student need. Yeah, how can we and they said wait a minute we can get another teacher here And and change some roles. Okay, great. Okay, Berlin has 48. I should put a star by Berlin Berlin has three Deceive I want to say it's nicely Has three youth homes For students that are ward of the state So many of these 15 are coming through our state place students that have a bi or two bi's with them Because they're wards of DCF in the state So we have you thought we have three youth homes in Berlin Some of those are up here too. So when you see Berlin's numbers you kind of have to Understand that we also have someone that's now a point six FTE working through central office for all the state place students Doady has 14 1.25 spent teachers and five pair pairs. Most of these are bi's through Washington mental health Ems 34 three spent teachers They did a group reduction and then this past year We've had a couple kids move in that with intense needs same as running and running this year We've had some kids move in as Amy was talking to early intense needs So we've had to do that But at EMS Doady Berlin callous and now you 32 starting next year All instruction will be provided by teachers pairs will be doing either We either be doing safety or Student needs due to physical services So just at you 32 So is there gonna be instructional through these shifted from Paris to teachers. Yep. Yeah, we're moving to teachers We started doing that some this year. We hired an additional teacher in the middle school who has a literacy focus That's doing some of that. We're also working Kelly and Jen Are working with the principals and the case managers and their monthly meetings looking at specialization of content Areas that they can support so we can have multiple teachers in the classroom Supporting kids. So these numbers in terms of teachers stable or they can change next year. Those those are stable. Those teacher numbers are stable When I say a bi I'm gonna say it's someone contracted from the outside usually Washington County mental health Associates as you know, Jen because you've seen both here And then the para educators are gonna we're gonna probably get more into that at you 32 right now We have two gentlemen who are doing bi type work But they're not They're not outside folks there They were hired by you 30. They were hired by you 32 We'd actually rather have our own if we didn't have to go with outside folks We think that that's a better a better model and we can actually provide more stability employment and have folks Working at a higher level the hard part is It's frankly the uptime to get the system up and running I need someone that can spend a year to put the program together Kelly's got it Conceptually modeled and we're actually trying to talk across issues if there's a way we can do that because we'd like to all Have them hired within our own organization set of contracting because it's a higher cost to contract out So I guess maybe I'm unclear about deep or I didn't hear clearly Did you say you're not gonna have para educators providing instruction providing instruction But they would be there for other roles. Yeah for for safety or physical needs But that number will remain the same the numbers up there As I said you third to to get theirs cutting the 23 by 7 Yeah, did we increase Paris this year because of need this particular student need There is Increased need from the mission and that's part of the nine Yeah So Kelly started today working with a question that you had with the special educators here at Romney to do an audit of All the student needs and to say how could we maybe do this better and she's done that We've done that it happens seems to happen about every two to three years Sometimes it happens because of budget sometimes it happens because we see Things changing and start to ask you why what you have to really do is do a diagnosis And it's a everyone at the table are saying we don't know what the ending is gonna be and what it is but let's look at all these student needs because what happens and Out of no ill will of anybody is you get focused on the individual kid And it's hard to pull yourself up and say wait a minute I got to look at all these kids across the whole spectrum Yeah, and then say is there a better way to combine it because one of the things that we know is that It's rare that individual instruction For a kid is better than small group instruction the collective knowledge at the table of multiple kids Gives more power for learning than an individual one-on-one tutor From our last meeting to this one I feel much better about that plan and having the audit and having the director special ed involved in looking big picture We just don't know the result like us just saying a number. You know what I mean We did yeah, and there I mean there have been years where we've had a board say here's the number And then we've had to okay. We got to live with this. How do we make it work? Yeah, so I mean it's gone both ways I want to be transparent about that and that's sometimes why we've had to get in say, okay Let's redesign the how we provide services. Mm-hmm. I think the other thing I would just want the board to be aware of is that You know ten years ago much of what I would see a special educator doing would be you know Meeting with families to refine their IEP that was a once a year kind of thing and then you know helping with the instruction and monitoring and that sort of thing and the number of Students that have an array of needs is really causing so many more team meetings around kids to get all of the consulting professionals around the table plan therapists to Really make sure that we're taking good care of the whole kid And so a lot more of their time isn't just like pulling families in for the IEP. It's really like Monthly check-ins on kids with therapists You know OT, you know Academics behavior, you know, there's our whole conference room will be sometimes filled with people And that are meeting monthly So I just you know just want to highlight that that is some of the work that special educators are now having to Coordinate and plan to ensure that kids are getting the right care Your next question was about the computers These there's computers for children. It doesn't seem like the tech of the scale is noted in the budget So we have a five-year replacement cycle that looks something like this. This is all the hardware including phone systems and copiers in the building and It averages a five-year replacement cycle the total cost if you had to replace everything today is about $215,000 in the building for all the technology like I said phones computers copiers That That it's just straight hardware. There's a $40,000 piece that comes over every year into the computer That's coming through central office, right? Nope. No, nope That's coming if you look down and fun transfer out. You'll see computer maintenance Okay, and one of the things we made it I made an agreement with the board when I first came in here So if you let me make it because I had done this because as you all probably recall a long time ago I used to be a tech director. I said if we if we do this, right? We do the right plan and because the cost of technology is always going down or At least staying flat will either grow or stay constant with the same costs So actually since $40,000 today is cheaper for you than it was two years ago or last year because of rates of inflation We're actually lowering your overall cost of technology keeping it flat at $40,000 So we're able to keep Everything in a five-year replay averaging a five-year replacement cycle. We're right now Hopefully on February vacation replacing all the phone system in this building It's over eight years old and to make E 91 9 1 1 to the room We can make E 9 9 E 9 1 1 compliant to the building but not to the room We have to replace our phone system And that's a requirement of safety protocols. It's not a law statute, but it's one that gets pretty public I remember Brian you and I had some conversation about that So we're replacing the phone We're doing that replacement this February, but overall you can see some years We pay less out and some years we pay more out and that's why we use that fund So in some years, it's gaining money and some year every building's doing that We have a constant cost for technology and we have a plan that looks like this a key McMartin manages and works with Lori Bebo to make sure the numbers all flow correctly How much of that Looks like it's the 75,000 plus the 40. No, it's just the 40. It's just the 40, but then the technologies I'm sorry. It's technology services So how much of that is the kids computers and how much of it is staff in fact all Okay, so the kids have Chromebooks. Yeah, how much so the 40,000 is Chromebooks only no, it's every piece of technology that's in this building The total cost for all the Chromebooks across the whole system is $51,000 over five years What's trying to get I think what you're asking is what percent roughly what percentage of our technology costs as are Represented by providing our children with actual computers Is that what you're saying exactly? Thank you very much. I would say roughly if you take 15 divided by 200,000 You're at about 25. So you think that's about right then. Oh Right now all of learning whether you know whether Everything that's moving for curriculum and learning is online That's where it's moving to and it has already moved there actually and so we have to teach our kids how to live in that environment We don't want them in that environment all the time We don't want to be using technology all the time for their instruction, but it is part of their environment True it's also useful to know that I don't know about the New York Times series But that this tech giants in Silicon Valley are the ones who are sending their kids to Waldorf and really keeping away From the tech and so I would like us to keep both an awareness that kids should know how to program They should know how to turn it on they should know how to operate it But also spend make sure that whatever time is spent on there is absolutely needs to be done on the computer And that's not the case right now Probably in the elementary school it is more certainly not nice No, is it moved online because that's where the providers have put it Like the program providers whatever program. Yeah, I mean yes, and our kids are competing across the world I feel like we're getting more into programming than budget unless there's a budget Yeah, I mean it is Programming discussion would be great, but maybe for An agenda item on another meeting. We are yeah, that's where it's going I'm just I'm looking at this. Yeah, so the 75,000 protect services that's for central office computers No We run most of our almost every server that services everything across all the schools runs through that system So we have a server firm sitting at U32 just like you do with a state I don't know where it sits if it's it's a it's on stage one 19 state street or somewhere else Yeah, but you access that from all over the place Kyle and your work as an assistant AG are not there anymore Okay, wherever you're at as a job you probably the same thing with the job most most computing's gone to cloud computing Yeah We've actually are trying to get less and less in our own server farm and more and more off-site because they give us better Security and better protection for student data The numbers right that's on top of 40 and then I'm also just struggling with this sheet generally because it talks about that 252,000 that's assessed to run me But back when I add up these numbers, yeah over 500 and then at the top it talks about run me is 11% of the overall budget I thought the overall central office was more like 10 million so 11% would be a million So I'm just is it 250 as a 500 is it a million So I grabbed this from last year's town meeting report to get to answer the services question I didn't come prep to get into that piece from last year. Yeah, I can tell you for this year What happens is there's a lot of double counting because of the way We're currently governed straight now With individual districts and the SU So let me just give you an example an example would be special education and special education We have Approximately five million of our total eight and a half million dollar budget for this year And I'm doing this all for memory. So my numbers are off get the concept not the numbers, okay? Approximately about five five million of them. Let's call it nine to make it easy. So five nights is Gross cost for special education Let's say we get three because I'm it's about six. It's about 54% It's a little greater than that because of different costs, but let's just call it 50 55% of that we get revenue in to offset those costs and the net cost comes to a run me Well, it's a double budget because you got a kind in the run me budget and they can't count the SU budget So like when we go to merge things are going to look a different and the numbers aren't going to add up because of the way Which in which we count them. Well, hopefully we don't I hear you. I'm under an order right now to do the work. So I'm doing the work. I Understand where you're at guys trying to get you out. I know who's trying to get so the The The piece with these I would have to go look at the I want to look at the top of this And I'd want to have my SU budget with me, which I don't have with me for this year one of the things that happened last year is that the Supervisory Union Board agreed To do things to go away from feed for service to just straight assessments for everything transportation Transportation special education and everything that run through the SU office. So we no longer do a fee for service. We do What's the percentage of kids? Let's say there's 15% of the kids in the SU are in this building? That's what gets caught 15% of the overall Cost, you know once you take out back out the revenue is what run me pays and if there's more services Costs for special education if it spikes for run me Good deal that year if it goes down and there aren't services Sorry, but you know and what did we want to make it a more constant slope? That's what we were getting to so many peaks and valleys. It was hard to budget for Last two years ago last year was the first year for assessment. So that kind of aligns to I mean I'm sorry it aligns doesn't with the notion that like We're responsible for all our students. Yep fee for service is sort of like we got your own Yeah, we'll get yours. Yeah, so we were already doing pretty much what We were under an order from 2011 to do that and took us a while to get there We had should have there's going Charlie if you go back to what the SU services are that were done under act 153 which really changed a lot of centralization of services into the SU We have been slowly moving to those requirements that We've been in 2011 was transportation and special ed. It wasn't everything. There were there were a lot of It was supposed to happen right after that So we move any curriculum technology human resources data analysis All that went to the authority of the supervisory union. Okay, and went away from the local board It did that answer your question. Yeah, and it sounds like the ultimate number is 11% What 8 and a half million minus what we get yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean there's Fed. Yeah, there's fed and stay my way It's I didn't if I had I give it to you right now, Kyle And if you want to call me, I'll be glad to get it. I just have to I don't have it with me Okay, or it's somewhere on this computer, but it would take me a little while The next question was about clerical salary versus teacher salary It's hard to see it in the budget But we have 1.4 clerical salary in the off in this in the office between the two personnel that work in there So the lowest the lowest teacher salary right now for this current for No, I did next year next year. The lowest teacher salary is 52,069 Dollars that's salary. Okay, total cost. I was gonna go there total cost is 6,749 and I want to just put a star on whenever I say total cost remember that depends on the biggest factor is what health benefits the teachers like to use or the staff because from me here you provide your e because you're not in a Association for parent for support staff. They're non-bargaining you could choose to do something different than but you choose to do Follow the ESP agreement that we do with the other schools that have people in the ESP union So good So if we see like for instance the preschool program salary teacher, that's just because it's less than full time You've got exactly that's where I was gonna go because what I was gonna say that again in your town report you have a list of salaries and at first I Looked at sperm like they've got all this information But then I said, oh, I could see how it can be hard because there's some FTE's there's some people in here that are like 0.6. Okay, you know, so if I think or You know, we have many teachers that are fractional. Yeah, so Lauren Caswell 0.6 Jen 0.6. So if you look at their teacher salary versus It looks like well, wait a minute. That's less. Okay, so the the clerical staff What you have in next year's budget is for 1.0 clerical staff is 40,300 with a total cost of sixty one thousand eight hundred twenty five Okay, I think I went over the health care, which was number nine Number ten you said the transportation costs have increased by 30 It's actually going down by four thousand dollars from this year's budget. That's what you said That's what you said at the beginning of the meeting, but yeah, it's so if I go to if I go to page 11 I believe that's where transportation is. You'll see students transportation as you the projected costs for this year And the budget it costs is a hundred six thousand four hundred twenty one Is everyone see that? What's up from 30 last year? Yeah, yes, so it's up 30 from last year from the year before I'll explain that one I can see I brought the explanation on that and so for next year because the percentage of students is going down for Romney compared to the SU so your cost will actually go down even though there's a fuel surcharge increase So you'll have a hundred and two thousand dollar budgeted for transportation services The reason that we went up so much is we started a new contract and we went to transportation Just as I said we're assessing instead of fee. We're just assessing by By 8 a.m. Yeah, okay No equalize sorry, it's equalize people's I said that wrong and then the last question you have I've been told by community about Spanish We haven't done any data collection on anything on On you know people have moved to middle sex because we have Spanish. I want to be the first to say I'd like to have language programs in all our Almond's schools. It's the tough place. We get we've gotten in other schools around Around budget You know where we are with budget and having to cut programs and I mean for me Spanish as a Memory a long memory for my Spanish teachers want to find my auditory dyslexia She's the one who said hey, we got something going on here with scary because I couldn't speak it but I could decode it I Can visually decode anything you can't you everyone's gotten used to my speech patterns, which is I Know there are other questions from that so kind of make sure if we go over it's not there's no It's it's scaled right so if we went over by $1 we We would pay 110 if we went over by $10, right? If there's not like a You weigh a dollar every dollar that we are over the threshold. We pay in taxes to with three Verma education funds, so it's all Money that we have no control over So it's so Chris has got it right that the simple explanation is for every dollar you read that you go over You have to raise an additional dollar or have to and that goes back into the Ed fund is as Caroline was saying as in my memo that I started the budget with Right now you're 38,230 dollars over the threshold. That's without the energy savings I told you about because I wrote this memo before I knew about that and that would be a 1.4 cents Increase to Penalty that would go to the Metal sex taxpayers. I would also tell you that right now the budget that you have in front of you is a 800s of a percent increase and Without the penalty is almost the same tax rate as last year With the increase if you were to be locally if you were to stay in the same governance that you're in currently So you were separate districts Middle sex would see an increase to the overall because remember I've got to combine you 32 into here, okay? So if you were not to merge You would have a dollar 90 Tax rate if you were to merge it'd be a dollar 82 or an eight-cent savings And that's with CLA with the new CLA's last time I gave you a higher number because the new CLA's are in your CLA went down Why do we why is it less if we merge? I can't because you have to look at the overall It's it's there you the tax rate gets set on the education spending per pupil equalized pupil For across the whole district and so that's lower than what the total the total equalized spending is For the students that come from middle sex are educated you 30 to plus the Romney the simple explanation is Calis and Worcester And Berlin and East Montpelier all take on a chunk of our bond also And then we take on a chunk of East Montpelier and Berlin's but when it's all all said and done East Montpelier's taxes go way down Actually, no, they don't dividing up the taking the expenses of everybody and they don't go middle sex has the greatest drop percentage wise both percentage and in sent and in tax rate I Be very interested in seeing this Can somebody tell me what I hear this I know the dollar 90 and dollar 82 but Per hundred of it assessed by Of the hundred dollars per hundred dollars of assessed value. Okay. All right of the home 100,000 then it'd be $60 roughly So for a hundred thousand dollar house. Yeah, let's eight cents decrease is an $80 decrease in taxes for a hundred thousand per hundred thousand, okay Except that the impact Right and I can tell you Say that again and miss for those of us who are not in consensitized in their full boat Mm-hmm. We will get the benefit shifting on to another population the cost of What we were able to vote for If there's a merger if there's a merger it won't affect where it may if the margin It may at the margin effect, but I think correct me if I'm wrong bill it won't affect those who are in consensitized Well, there's there's Yes, and no You've got you've got the theme the up to forty seven thousand dollars of a below forty seven thousand dollars of a new income There's a slide. There's a sliding scale between forty seven That's why it's getting my book open here as I have these figures with me Middle sex has About forty three percent of the residents don't have any income adjustment Mm-hmm thirteen percent or below the forty seven thousand okay, and then forty four percent have a sliding scale and it's between a hundred and forty one thousand dollars of annual income to forty seven and it's a It the best way to just say it easily is a sliding scale based on where you are and some ratios that are in there for how much You'll see that And you've got the idea. Yeah To do it for years Yeah So these numbers bill this is specific to the budgets that are proposed just for Next year and this includes the penalty that Mel's ex has if there's a yeah, not a merger Which comes out if there is a? Merger but in all the years after that it's still on the whole we're taking on a Larger chunk of other towns debt and what East Montpelier takes on of other towns debt compared to what currently has So I'm gonna be really directly the cop. I haven't looked at the debt because what drives more of the cost is the spending per pupil That's what I look at and did that go down and that's because I know that you guys have and that's fine I'm not trying to say it isn't I'm not saying you're right or not. I just don't look at it that way I look at it as the the spending per pupil and that because that's what drives the tax rate and the debt goes into that goes into that calculation It changes the threshold level because people have different all your debt was forgiven So when you look at the tech to get to the threshold That that cost even though the middle sex residents pay for that debt It's not counted against you for your spending per pupil where in East Montpelier They're building when they did their bond only 80% of it was allowed for to be forgiven for Calculating the threshold so 20% of their bond payment comes in to kind against their their threshold level For spending equal I thread spending for equalized people for the threshold and what we pay is a penalty Is it based on what's budgeted or the actuals at the end of the year? So this is what yeah, it is based on what's budgeted But that I can't say that that threshold calculation is a hundred percent I have to wait to the end of the legislative session Which you all know the last bill that usually comes out as the at spending and at tax rate bills So until those are set these are there are best estimates along with information that we're getting from aoe so if we because they could change the amount of Yield for what a dollar yields per pupil and it would change all that calculation right away So last year we thought we were right up with it remember last tax season for those of you on the board here We thought we spent like within a dollar of it. We were thirty two thousand dollars away when it came to June So I mean Modeling either what and it could go either way. I just I I don't know and Lori is I mean she's a pro at this stuff, so So we can get underneath thresholds and still tonight and still be go above it And or I mean and you know above it and be below it and I would and I would tell you yeah And I would tell you this you have less control of that than the rest of the schools in Vermont do Because right now we still don't have stable equalized pupils from the state of Vermont They haven't been able to give us equalized pupils yet that right there could swing stuff We are very confident in the Romney numbers and all our SU, but we know there are three supervised unions They're still out trying to submit their data So we don't have there's there's a last factor that comes in That that does an adjustment to get the equalized pupils to be equal to the real pupils And that's a ratio that can come in and swing equalized pupils I mean just a thousand change on that number can change these threshold numbers Sorry go ahead Is that information going to be available before we have to report to the clerk time clerk's office Well, we don't have to report to the town clerk's because as I've been saying we're not ready if we knew we were going to do a Local budget today. I could not be ready for town meeting Lori and I are off We do not even though we could post a warning. We could not get you a budget and Get it printed and get it to the taxpayers So we're we're special media no matter which way we go For a budget and I was saying that back in December I mean we we I've had to do a workflow analysis and I think Laura We're and I meet at least two or three times a week on it of what we're doing and what we're not doing in So we have just been following The work we're we're working right now to pull things together So the We have a lot of hours. I actually have a sick business manager now because she's been working so hard She has a flu She's been out for a week and a half and I told her to go home today. It's like go back home. I don't want it I am healthy half my office is not So what is our What is our deadline for having to vote on a budget for next year? Well, you don't right now, you don't have to vote on a budget I was trying to get everyone from the boards and we have a different timeline now because of the The schedule interim scheduling hold for to fetch to February to the third week in February for the transition board We were trying to take this at this point start working on a merge budget with those boards with a merge with the transition board So I was trying to have everybody and you're the last one that doesn't have a budget that's ready to go to the transition board So I'd like to finish that tonight, frankly Because we're trying to we're already very built templates and started to build everything into a merge budget We're building the financial system on the backside right now electronically because we have to We're also having to move fiscal software right now to a new fiscal software So by January 25th, we have to submit the budget to which we're moving to On that because of what the fiscal software is pushing us to do outside the merger law so if there is a Stay not not the scheduling stay does stay on any merger activity When would we which when would we have to be voting on a budget? I mean, we're not gonna be voting on at town meeting, right? No, we're not gonna make some voting at town meeting I'm just gonna explain a lot more of that later on so for the budget piece of it I think once we The conversation I had on Monday or Tuesday, frankly, I forget which day it was was that we're currently Still under the order from this state school board of November 28th Keep moving that we have to merge and be in transition by July become operational July 1 2019 So if that were to be stayed then I would be and we you know This is in Chris you were part of this decision of the executive committee Which I think everyone's bought into from all the boards which was build the budget so you can either pull them apart or put them back together So we can pull them apart We did then go from of we go to a 30 40 days Warning to a special meeting But I'd also want to check with I mean Chris Leopold and I've had some of these conversations As the attorney that's been helping us with all the merger and you know How do we pull the stuff apart if we need to and looking over all the warnings? So that's the best I can give you I can't give you a date Because I don't know if that's happening and when it does happen when is that happening to build a schedule to do it So I will tell you that what I do know about budgets and how they work And electing budgets. I've been in just work for districts that didn't run their budgets on town meeting day They did in April Anything past the end of April start to get really tough because you want at least one revoke Time with it before June 30th because if we get to June 30th and don't have a budget We have to operate on 95% of this fiscal year's money That also means that we don't give teachers We're in negotiations, so we may be giving letters of intent anyway But my recommendation would be to the board if you want to issue contracts You can but realize you'll be deficit spending and buy quite a bit So you may want to only do letters of intent or not even give letters and intent those are things You'll have to think about without a budget. I Just want to be I'm not trying to scare you. I'm just trying to give you some of the realities I've been down these roads when I was working as a curriculum director We had a couple of these in hardwick where we lost the hazen budget and we had to We had to start thinking about running at 95% of the overall budget Just go back a little bit for the other SU's that you said hadn't gotten their information there To the state and the department so that you could have a better sense of our numbers Do you have a sense as to when that will happen? I'm hoping it's this week There was a whole new data collection system from the agency of education this past fall for submitting Student census information so that new system it really depended on what personnel you had to run data of And I these issues are I mean they're just they don't have the staff Like luckily we have Michelle sub gun. We created the data manager position five years ago. I Don't know Chris So just things are just really there's nothing I've never been a situation like this What I've just never been in a situation like this where we can't get data out of the agency right now They're so understaffed. They have so many open positions So it's just it I can't give you I mean that we're missing tuition data We're missing or I can go through the litany list of things. We're missing right now That we're just making it's it's a nice thing that we run the models on the back sides They're so we feel pretty confident on our numbers and we lorries, you know Those are things from years and years of spreadsheets. We have gone on that We can kind of model ourselves, but we're talking about districts What I want to give you is those are districts that don't do that type of stuff because they don't have the capacity to do it so therefore I don't know how fast they can submit data Because some of I mean until a couple years ago. There were some some folks that didn't even have fiscal software in their issues They were still doing alleged books So for tonight, does it make sense to um decide on the threshold peace and the priorities we talked about last time so that So soon as the last time we came up with either we Take the penalty reduce staff or take from our capital funds, right? And so then like wode and I thought about it I sleep out and we've done all this talking and we've come back to we can either take the penalty Reduce staff or take from our capital funds. I feel like we need to figure out which of those if any we're going to do And that's all right. So and I know we don't have exact numbers, but I would think in terms of Morale for the school and focus for the educational leaders we We need to know what we're doing in In terms of the threshold. So we have a proposal now that only has a 30,000 Maybe 31,000 dollar. Yeah, let's call that say 31 Take take seven three seven thousand and that was with 30,000 um A decrease in 30,000 which was actually a decrease in 45,000 to the capital fund that we had planned either two or three years ago to to so Looking at that. I think would be really important and looking at the um Didn't bill send out something from I did the cap from that Brian asked me to send out to everyone. So I just I think it's I think it's really good to look at So I guess for me, I would like to look at the facilities audit vote if we are Going to decrease by that 30 Because if we're not I think we owe it to our administrators to let them know tonight And if we are doing that then Say that we vote on the 30 Um, then we decide the rest of it either be over by that much or continue cutting by that much or whatever we end up doing I just feel like tonight is we To me, I don't want it hanging. So I can't imagine how the staff and the administrators feel Does that make sense in terms of you know, I Um frenzy at this time He was usually driven by a town meeting and getting a warning out and having to get the warning out um, I think we I would favor getting a preliminary number and decide whether or not we Will go over or cut to be under But not finalize it until we have more final numbers Which may be in a week, but at least get a fairly sturdy understanding of where where we think we'll be going so not finalize a budget like not the 3,100, whatever, but I think if we look at the first page of bill's report page seven Even if those numbers change Um, I think the conversation around these numbers will help If it ends up being off next time say by five thousand dollars. We still have gone through and really taken our priorities to the point of voting. You know what I mean like So can I I just want to give you a piece of climate The climate the longer you Hold from making a decision It's almost exponential the climate Exactly having in the building Exactly, and I'm not saying that for rumney. I'm just saying that I've been through this before The longer the board takes to make a decision The more anxious People get so I guess that's what I'm saying is let's just decide that piece tonight So that for people who maybe have a sense that their specific position might be one that we Are discussing in terms of cuts That we can just note tonight that it's off the table or it's what we're doing That's fair. Okay in terms of statement. So should we start with capital fund or with the penalty? I have one question. It's been bothering me. Um, there's this private school tuition on here for 38,000 or something I thought I knew what that was last meeting, but I don't I don't um, can we in the budget? Yeah I didn't think we had start the beginning. Isn't it? Where is it? Is that a preschool remembered approving one, but oh that's preschool. So that's the school choice That's okay. That's a preschool choice act 166 from us to 3,000 for 10 hours All right, that's the right about I knew there was an answer that I wasn't gonna There we go Um, so is there you're gonna say something else? No, I just I was I mean, I agree with everything Carolyn said And it's just a matter of where like where do we start by talking about whether or not we're willing to go over the I think the threshold this is just me. I'll throw it out there talking about the threshold gives us really specifics And I think the capital fund is the one my priority Was the same as chris of the 30,000 I just want to go through now that I have matt's detail and more of the emotional attachment to the things in there that haven't been done I think looking at that 30 and and and voting as a board of if that does make sense um Would be a good place to start because that could depending how the vote went that would impact the rest of it The rest of the threshold How much we're over by Are we comfortable being over let's say we're over by 20 if we only vote to decrease it by 10 That changes the discussion So at least then we're all on the same over by This was 30 absolutely. Yep. Yeah. No, that was good news when we got that was good. Yeah What but that 30 incorporates the 30 reduction in the capital fund Yeah, so that's already incorporated into the right and I think it's the 31,000 You should talk if that's what you yeah Right, so we had agreed I'm going to mess up the numbers. I think brian has it better in my head. We had agreed something around 120 Last year we reduced it to 90 90 and we we said for our priority we would rather pay 60 for next year So that's actually 60,000 less roughly are my numbers way off. You know, you're right You're right on so now it's 60,000 less Adding to it and there were people who had been on the board Like before I was who really passionately spoke to us about do not cut there and We had a very specific Facilities audit or facilities report of what was needed and I remember feeling like they were all Extremely important and I just want to make sure as much as Of the choices that was the one I was most comfortable with that it's like I think a vote just put something behind it I'll just put another Right now the order is a merger and there's gonna be a lot that happens between Now in july 1 but if come july 1 merger happens Then Whatever amount of money we're putting into that capital fund is just gone And so Actually, no What's gone from rum explains it. So I will explain In in the next year's budget, you're correct, but the capital fund that is now established According to the opinion of chris leopold There isn't actually statute that says this there is on scholarships and endowments, but not on reserve fund balances That reserve fund balances that were attached to a school for specifics I'm just gonna stay with capital there to see if a rumby would be have to be used for the rumby school building That's the reserve amount right budgeted amount is I mean it's basically There's a long way of saying if the merger happens It's not really our problem what that number is and I just want to go back to the morale issue that I mean, I'm here tonight because I heard there was discussion about putting spanish There was discussion about going to one kindergarten teacher and I don't know if those things are true or not, but That's not what as a parent of three kids here. I want to hear that's not what people in this building want to hear and it's like I'm completely with you on addressing that head on and If we need to resolve this issue with so much being up in the air It seems like a simple solution is just take another 30 from The reserve and then we'll have an issue if we Charlie prevails and we end up not having merger, but we can figure that out. Yeah at that point I would like to kind of throw out a way of looking at this is that because I think I'd like to think that everyone around this table feels that the last thing we want to do is Cut programs cut teachers But I think if we look at it the context, it's well, it's no longer our dollars I think about the one of the sort of Fundamental arguments that has been made around act 46 is the inequity of debt that Is being incurred by towns that planned Not to take for their facilities And we middle sex and you know people around this table have definitely pointed to that as being a reason why You know this force merger is Is not right And so I think for us then to Underfund what we know Is you know needs for the capital building kind of runs contrary to that to that spirit So I think you know kind of can have both ways So I see it. Yeah, I guess I just want clarity on Whether it's 60 or 90, where does it go next year if we merge so if we merged and it would be into It would be in one budget And then we'd have to but still for our facilities use I well are you talking about the balance the fund the capital fund balance because that's different than budgeting for the capital fund that would be a You know district-wide. I mean, I think what bill is saying before is that there's and this isn't a certainty But there's certain things that like endowments or especially designated funds that stay attached to the school Chris leopold is thinking that that would also apply to capital budgets Technology funds anything that is We can't still add to it Well, you you could the merge board could decide to okay And that but it would be the merge board merge board would have to agree the merge board would be deciding What would be funded out of it for this school? It would be for this school So like our projected fund and balance is 144,000. Yeah, I mean, I'll be I'll be really transparent And I I said this to chris the other night because we were on the articles committee talking about something like this I said somewhere in june by june I'm going to be recommending to you that you leave a certain amount of there for for bills that haven't come in that We're not sure of yet because there's always some in june. You never close the fiscal year on june 30. It just never happens Um, you try to get there, but you get as close as you can So we're closing in an organ if we merge we're having to close an organization So we're going to leave some money there I'm going to have you try to leave as little as much and what I'm going to recommend as your superintendent is that you take As much as you can out of your general fund balance and put into the rummy capital fund reserve That's one of the question I had we can do that we get transferred you transfer And I'm going to I'm going to be strongly suggesting that to you so we could so one of my because I I've been probably the the staunchest person around this table Kind of being protective of the capital fund allocation But one thing that occurred to me was that we're at We're at five over five and a half percent or four and a half percent of our Right, you're about 21,000 over your fund. Yeah, you're in terms of four percent target. Yeah, so if we were to we could potentially We could move pretty much all the money for the last for this year and last year that we didn't Properly fund the let me say it this way. You have about a hundred and fifty thousand dollars in fund projected fund balance right now at the end of the year I would probably recommend about a hundred to 110 of that You move over in june And laura will give me a better number. She and I have been talking about how do we model for how much we got to leave That goes into general fund balance that moves over That that I would put into your your capital fund balance That's where I would suggest you put it you there's a couple you could put technology But I wouldn't suggest doing that so why wouldn't we put the entire thing In because there's going to be some bills that we don't know that are there Right, right, right, but so like the 110 right budget Nothing to go in Because we already have just put it in and then we are under the threshold Under budget and we don't hit the penalty. Well, that's what that's what kyle was saying So but what you but you have a double whammy on the next year's budget And I'm going to tell you and I've been telling you have money going in right so whether you're merged or not next year every school except for one Whether merged or not and if it's merged it'll be all Will hit will be above the threshold just on health care Increases that we're projecting for next year, and there's no way the thresholds going away Yeah, the threshold is not going away. It's actually getting lower because that's a lossy Unless unless the legislature does something but I don't see them doing that because of just the constant pressures on funding right now So we know that we're looking in a year from now But really drastic cuts across the su Really drastic. I mean like at u32 we're in We're up in high double digit not high We're in double digits from that risk right now Because of what we're projecting a year from now So you can do that but just realize the cliff that you're making for either yourself And all I was saying was like if if our goal was to have 120 in there and we have 110 I'm just saying if It's about what we budget and not what we actually spend. I don't know but that also discounts Something blowing up between now and yes Absolutely, you know And so we can make a contingent there can be a contingency of if it's there. This is what will happen Oh, yeah, that's a good and that's what we can do Is the is the boiler has the boiler hit this yet? No, it has not the boiler is going out to bid Monday it's because it's due back February 15th And then we'll have the bids in and be going with the boiler replacement during the summer and costs We think it's in the 65 to 70 thousand dollar range It's come up because we've waited a year in construction costs right now. We're going through the ceiling So so really where our balance is really again is looking more like 80,000. Yeah Barry any unforeseen additional roof leaks Yeah, that I mean, yeah, no that I'm hoping under the warranty. Yeah, it's not unforeseeable So it seems irresponsible to me. I mean, I know that we're going to be Potentially merging but I guess whether we merge or whether we don't merge it seems deeply irresponsible To just keep to make a decision just to avoid the threshold Yes to not only to avoid the threshold But then also just said I mean now we just have to make this a harder worse decision Soon And I feel like as I feel like we're kind of passing the bucket on fair way to do that and it So that makes me uncomfortable to I hear kyle's argument for sure But it sounds like it would be, you know, not really lost per se what's in our capital fund and go into our own personal capital fund reserve and so I guess the question is are we going to let somebody else make these cuts for us? Are we going to do it ourselves what we can? And I guess I mean just another thought I thought was that when I looked at those numbers bill just gave That chief he has it seems like the biggest thing that's causing this problem is a loss of eight students between this year and next year and so I just come back to When you started this with how do we get people here? Yeah, that's all our problems. Yeah, and and I think you don't cut any programs and Because we do get people because of Spanish and other things that the school brings and I think also avoiding The penalty is helpful too because If you don't have the taxes go out more from that then that's a Benefit and so at this particular moment in time The best thing for the budget including the capital budget and what's available in the future may well be to underfund it for next year and Hopefully we get more students and or we make a pitch to the merge board if that happens Or if we stay an independent board That gets figured out next year and it will be hard but for the moment the decision has to be made right now It seems pretty logical Would it be helpful to for this conversation to I found this sheet this was this spreadsheet that listed the Prop you know the work that needed to be done what it should be done in the cost to be helpful It wasn't your packing folks The email right? Yeah, I brought extra copies. Oh, would you catch on the long trip? I was I mean, I just I know that woden and allison weren't on the board when matt did his Walkthrough with us, but it was so clear The amount of things that he was suggesting were very much proactive Cost upfront saved us in the long run or significant safety things There are extras here trolley if you want to It's okay. Thank you And we'll notice that the numbers fluctuate over time. Yeah as opposed to it. Although I think the Uh, the suggestion was a steady 120 every year, right? Rather than fluctuating for a year and that's what we try to do We try to do that with all our capital work whether it's I gave you an example technology I could do it here in the buildings We do with our capital, you know, we just know we say try to keep it steady because if we can keep More numbers constant in a budget the better it is for operational And a program and we've been able to actually really because of this keep bill forward part-time with us for Three or four years now Like he's doing most of the renovations that are happening to you 32 summer, which are pretty hefty Okay so, um I'd be curious of just finding out between 2017 team Advised to be done which is actually done so we now True or sense of where we stand because as I look through it felt like a lot of it wasn't Yeah, I think it's not like that oil burners on 18 and it actually has it hasn't even hit yet, right Right, but but it will this year Yeah, later. Yeah, late. It's here in 19, right and then roof Roof's been done Okay, that has been done Sidewalks have not the exterior light. I know that was a big one for I think that's done. Can I see? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, you know better than I do Paving second phase. We haven't done any we haven't done anything and the paving was huge to in his um Which paving to saving the floors, right? We did do some the back the first part Got it. So it's the second phase hasn't okay, which would be the front circle here But he did uh, there is the carpet put in which was his That was actually actually John Hemmelgarten said instead of paving so much and we did a dodie And I'll let Amy talk about whether it's working or not, but it was something we learned at berlin In doing their front entrance that it really stopped a lot of dirt coming in with these really aggressive carpets and the lobbies Is it working? It is overall the slipperiness is somewhat better. I think but you know, it has certain We're still trying to figure out the scrub. We need to probably reinvest in a scrub or Yeah, you have to extract you have to extract it When it's built to do that it's an indoor outdoor the playground under the night under so I'm on Second or third page so 2019 the 95,000 It says playground. So is that I think Isn't that done some some that was like this summer stuff and he was recommended for safety Maybe he was recommending sort of ongoing. I think I saw it 5 000 per year for playground But we already ate through 30 000 of that Last year. Yeah, we have some more needs that we need to deal with I guess it won't help us tonight, but I would love To hear from Matt again. So Matt doesn't work for this. Oh, he doesn't do it This was his recommendation and then he he left about a year and a half ago I don't get it now our facilities person for you 30 to we You don't have one for the whole su. I do not. Oh, that's I've been able to replace that position I mean, I understand but That was really helpful. I would love to have a facility director Yeah, because I get hit with a lot of bit along with the custodial staff the maintenance and custodial staff So could we and then we just get into the The Individualization that Versus somebody who knows all of it Anyway, could we hear from maybe we could all just say our piece on Briefly to get the feel for how everybody's thinking on I mean I feel like we either need to take from our capital fund Well, we need to decide whether or not we're willing to have a penalty And then we need to decide whether you know whether or not we're going to take from our capital fund And whether or not we're willing to cut really the only thing cut as far as I would tell is a position of one of our staff members so What do you guys think about maybe everybody just I think that's great. I seem reasonable Yeah And if you want I'll start I would say that I like where we are now I'm willing to incur a 31 thousand dollar All bridge taking into account the energy same anticipated energy savings of seven thousand dollars And that would be my preference keeping the lowered funded for the lower funding for the capital budget Send it down 30,000. So it's a 60 thousand dollar amount rather than 90 thousand And and keep our programs intact I'm actually less inclined to Eat down our capital from maybe certainly don't want to get our staff members. Of course, I don't want to get our staff members, but I feel like we're going to be I mean we have to run the school so that it can actually run and I'm I'm concerned that if we just keep taking from The facilities maintenance and capital fund that we have we're going to Be in trouble. So I guess I'd be interested in either looking at a higher penalty and like really okay. So, you know, what's that mean? That's You know $80 per hundred thousand dollars of house So we would even potentially double that to 160 dollars per $100,000 of house because as many people are willing to tolerate so that we can keep putting money in our capital fund Or do we need to consider so that we'd be looking at it at 60 thousand dollar overage Or somewhere less than 30,000 But I mean we're way short of the 120 that we're supposed to be putting in We want to be putting in it's half in terms of this right proposal Yeah And I guess especially given what bill said the idea the merging not merging that seems to be kind of an On-issue I guess if most of the money is going to go on our capital reserve fund then I don't feel like there's any strategic Whatever that needs to be considered terribly regarding merging and it's kind of dirty to talk about it that way anyway, so It's good that it doesn't So I guess I'd be either in favor of saying all right, we're going to take this as taxpayers and we're going to say We're willing to charge more so we can keep Spanish or No, we have to or whatever it is that we decide or that we have to To make the difficult decision now um When I look at this the The latest numbers that bill has in terms of the threshold I just think about each budget for the past five years being significantly the actual was Was at least that much less than budgeted I think um So I feel like I kind of think there's numbers there without cutting staff without Decreasing the capital fund and really looking a little more at what we have available to transfer in and use that in terms of planning um I guess I'm feeling a little optimistic Mathematically that we can do all the things we want Can I just address that? Yeah, please. Um, one of the things that's been a steadfast I don't know what to call it's called procedure is that um And one of the reason why lori is I think we've been around here for 25 years Is that she stays conservative but not too conservative We've had since I've been here. We've had budgets. I've gone over but that's been authorization by the board to do something different than what was in the budget It's not because we haven't estimated for health insurance increases unemployment, we won't even know until the summer and other things and We do that every year So we bring you a budget that works the way it's supposed to work I pressed lori during christmas. I said can we lower any more of our percentages and get tighter? She goes I'm not comfortable going any further And when she says that to me I stand with her on that She has 25 years of business manager experience We do really well because of that I hear what you're saying We we've been lucky that we haven't had many things that have really come at us the fund balance in rumney got to as low as Under 2% while I've been here and I know there have been years prior to I was here that we've got to even lower in that according to lori I think that's a really dangerous place for the school for any school to be Because you don't know it won't come at you So I would advise not getting any tighter than we have for estimates and the problem is I mean You know this well caroline because you've worked in schools You're but you're 18 months out from x, you know right now you're six months from the beginning of execution in the finals 18 months out right We need we need those estimates the way they are I would do as told if you want to have me lower those You know not be as conservative, but I couldn't recommend that to you And that I am a fiscally conservative I mean and I am too and I I guess I feel like um I've always led a budget that was under and I and it just feels maybe like the right time to To stick more like to tighten the the practices around it and like I don't know I guess I always feel like we've had this buffer and that's because I don't do the business end and I always worked under Really good business managers and I stuck to the budget um I just feel like 30 000 if we were at a different place and we had a budget in in place And there was a sudden need for 30 000 dollars in books We would be saying yes And it would be found so It's but it's also not how I would do my home budget. So I I'm really torn I just feel like I'm when I'm looking at that figure. It feels more doable that um Be put some numbers to what you're talking about. Yeah, so like that. I mean so The threshold was reduced to 38,230 dollars. I feel like I feel like um If we cut 10 from the capital fund and that leaves 28 from other places. I don't know. It just feels But we're not cutting 10. What that would be cutting 40 right 40, right? So but but then I take what we it Looks like projected that we would have We could say maybe we feel comfortable that we would have 40 to put in in june Based on our actuals right now I don't know. I mean I I do I do think it's risky. I fee but I feel like it I feel like what I'm saying is not to play with the um Budget so much as that threshold and if it's about what we budget and not what we spend I would rather Under budget and pay after and not and avoid the penalty And maybe that is my huge bias about the penalty and that it was designed to close small schools But The risk is then we pay We go over budget. So we under budget For the first time in however long Because we could do the research And then what what happens if you under budget you get into deficit spending or you take from the fund Or you just from the fund balance Like so I guess that's what I'm saying is I've never like I don't believe in debt. I don't believe in overspending But I think we could just tweak it and So I guess I'm saying manipulate a little bit in terms of the threshold because I think if we're gonna Lower the budget to be out of the penalty. You have to indicate cuts somewhere in the budget, right? And then you're saying well, where's that gonna and and if you're And it's also representation to the community. We're representing that this is what we need And if we're really thinking about we need more And oh we needed more enough to get into the penalties like well, why didn't you know that before? What we kind of did And I do also believe in going to the public with exactly what we need not more not less This is what we believe it costs to educate our children. I just Okay, so that's That's where I'm at is I I look at that number it feels more So are you saying that you feel like we can get that zero out or do you're comfortable with being overthreshold? No, I'm not comfortable being overthreshold So I guess what I'm saying to answer the question about capital fund is I think 30 is too much to decrease it Um And And you don't want to be over the threshold And I don't want to be over the threshold and I don't I don't want to cut programs. Um, so I'm not being helpful at all um I agree with you I don't know When it was a hundred thousand I I stood behind my vote of cutting 30. So I guess Yeah, I would I would vote to cut it by 30 knowing that um, I would take the risk of In june, we would be able to put in That 30 so that's what I would vote for. We'll be voted tonight. So you're saying Yes, except over penalty by 38 And put 30 from no, I'm saying I would vote To decrease the capital fund by 30 An additional 30 the So it would be 60 so it would be 60. So yeah, it's So so what's represented what's represented here and then be over the threshold by 31 31 if we take the energy put anticipated energy savings with an estimate of 38 But there's that $7,000 energy savings that bill noted to us, but hadn't included in that letter. Yeah, right Just keep the lights off Don't need to fill the white chip in Yeah, I guess I'm saying I'm standing by what I What I said last time is the 30 I hold on because I was so putting 60 in the capital fund and Being over the threshold by 31 potentially I mean that could that could go away But you put it's more could be more right or it could be more, right Program With no program cuts Well, so the no program cuts so I still though am interested in looking at our per pupil spending and the results of The audit being done with the special ed department and those things because if there's a reason that our per pupil spending is above other schools It would be helpful to know what those things are Um You know Like takes Spanish is a program that we offer that other schools don't that cannot be the reason I thought it was that much of an increase Isn't it our bond that makes our per pupil spending more? I mean, I don't know. I think on this one kids Every school has facilities used every like they're so if there's an area that um Should be looked at that we are somehow giving more than what is needed I believe in kids getting what they need um If we are doing something that is off And it is not in line with best practice. I would want to know that that is a cut I would be willing to look at if the administrators came back and said something like that But in terms of just um, nobody else has Spanish. So I think we should cut Spanish. Absolutely not. I think there's I I think there's benefits to that and I think we would make a cut We would feel it it would impact staff And it's still not going to help in terms of the the the threshold and more importantly in terms of the per pupil spending So So what i'm saying is I do still care about the per pupil spending and finding out You know like if if you meet with other principals and and we look at You know like looking at the number of pairs in each school versus the number of students And I on IEPs versus the number of students in the school. Is there a reason our percentages are off that Fits with other sues and schools with Our demographics or is there a reason that that we're off somewhere and we need to look at it But in terms of the part of the budget and the capital fund because I actually won't be on the board in june to vote but That it looks now that we would have money that we could put in there Which would get us to the numbers that matt had recommended a year and a half ago That is where my vote would be tonight. So you're saying We don't go over the threshold We put 60 into the capital fund in our budget And we then look forward to trying to figure out how we can lower our per pupil spending costs to see if over time Those those savings that are not yet Conceptualized are sufficient to replenish our capital fund Uh, yes, except I think by putting 60 in the capital fund. We do still we are still over the threshold We are Okay, so we are Over the threshold Right. Okay. I'm sorry. I thought you were not one. I mean, I don't but I thought you wanted to tighten up the budget everywhere else just Yeah, thank you. All right. I'm good Brian um I I don't want to exceed the threshold I guess one what the question that something that you said prompted this question for me is that Could we provide the same educational instruction and social emotional support? to students In a different way than we currently are doing now that would save us money But that's what I would ask the administration if they felt that that was achievable It's an easy question But I mean we didn't think as of last year we didn't think that was achievable and amy petitioned for another position I think one halftime position and so we added you know, we added one a full time didn't we add one full time position between But that doesn't mean there isn't a surplus somewhere else I'm just trying to address brian's direct question and social emotional are we supporting and we said amy felt like we were doing well Where we are now But didn't feel well when we had that one position less So yeah, so my question is like, you know, could we do things? Yeah, it's I'm not advocating for at all for cutting The you know the The tier two what's under tier two, you know, what I'm just saying is that Just as a way of looking at this is that you know, are we Can we provide all the different opportunities that we provide and supports would provide in the service in the school differently and Safe money not spend as much money to do so. I feel I'm asking this question because I feel like There's been hints of that in conversations over time that I've heard come from the administration and so um, and bill in particular and so I'm just Is that is that a non-starter or not? But if it so if it's not final move on but I just that almost seems like that's something we should say Based on a budget that we have Try and do things differently and see if it still provides the same level Because as the question say will it provide, you know, that's there's so many moving pieces on that That's not enough. I was going to ask a question. Yeah, I was going to address the will It's hard to address um You know, I just told you as I looked at this we're looking at different ways in which we're providing special ed services I want to give the authority and the power to the group of special educators that are working for Amy and Kelly To look at how they're doing services. I don't know the result of that yet. I wish I did But I don't And I want to give them the authority to look at that and say so how can we do this It is there a reason that um That kelly is working with remny on that is she working at all schools or was there a number? Right now it's here because of the budget issue there earlier year She's jumped in because of budget issues But some of that came from a review of looking at just looking at IEPs now that's happened in other schools other years that we've had to look at it Um, it I told you about how we did that in callus. I told you how we did that in east Montpelier You know, we did that at u32 this year and looking at how we're providing services and how can we change that from Um, just to clarify just oh, I'm sorry. Was there a budgetary difference in terms of reducing seven in ed? But adding special ed. Yeah adding some special ed, but there's been a reduction in budget too. Okay Um, when you say budget issues was it the special ed? Um Expenses coming from No, we look at or like budget meaning we were over the threshold. We we the board put some pressure I mean, I'd just be really clear and this is not going to win me Anyone for fans? But you know when you look at the number of para educators that we have here at remny and the work in which they're doing Which is a lot of instructional where we're hearing from much to the research We look at from many different organizations that the best thing to do to teach kids is to have a highly qualified teacher And to start to group kids into small groups instead of individual instruction That's part of the impetus of looking at and that maybe Isn't something How does it work when schools move from one model to another does it take time? It's more than just what so it's it's not just a special education piece Because general education is part of that as well. Sure. So it means people change how they do work And and it changes and how kit where instruction happens And that's part of what act 173 passed last year and the legislature is pushing on us It's pushing us to do a different model the model that we're looking at that We're moving towards To where there's teachers providing the instruction and more small group and it's done in the classroom So would it support that effort for us to impose the Cut on the administrations or To let it naturally happen through a recommendation that comes out of what they're doing now Well, I think in change for anybody The more that that's discovered by the folks that are going to make the change The better the change happens even though sometimes it takes longer to get into it initially That the overall timeline is less But we've had times where that's been imposed because a board has said we want and that's what happened you three do We want three percent We don't tell you how to do it. You go find it come back to three percent. Tell us what it did So then for me and I know that I've already had my turn and I'm taking some of yours, but I I feel like Without hearing From the administrators about areas that we are providing More than what is needed like if like if the audit was already done and we had You know for so I want to change I want to change your words caroline. Okay, because it's not more It's just different the way it's being done And so in the way it's being done We've been doing this very similar here around me for many many years It's an It's a model. That's not the model that's being used I would say and most of that let me say it's not the model that 173 is going to push every school in vermont into That's part of 173 act 173 was passed last year in the legislature saying You know Bear educators will not be doing instruction because you're going to you're going to get defunded from it It's going to be done through funding Okay, and so a question I have is um, is remedy the only one doing that because we there was something specific About our per pupil spending. So in terms of how special ed Is done Do we have more students per IEP that have so when I say more specifically I mean having a one-on-one or one-on-one time versus small group to me one on one time You're getting a place where I need kelly's name Okay that I can't get to but that's not something that like the two of you Have looked at in terms of an area to recommend us to cut that's what I'm saying is if it was something that was That you were recommending I could say yes, I would support that whether it's a reduction of however much was recommended But without that so caroline the way I've worked with all the other boards They've usually said here's the target find a way to get there And a budget target a budget target And you guys are really resisting telling us that so I know if you're not going to tell us the target I'm not going to take put my head out there and tell you what the cut is And yeah, I agree I'm going to put one out asking until you well that she is the way she's asking me questions Yeah, I And I'm not going to do that Because it it's just like, you know, we need to work together as a team Yeah So if you're going to say this is where we want to land go find out and bring us back your best recommendations We have the least amount of effect on student learning We'll do that But when you're in this is part of the discussion last month too. Yeah, you guys have to give us a target You got to do it as a board. That's a board responsibility Well in terms of I mean you're giving us a well you've given us a budget number and we're working with it right now Right, right, but tell us don't right what caroline is trying to do is get me to say so this is how you want to cut Okay, good the administration just told us how to cut the budget and they you know without us telling how much it is to go What I think part of the inquiry is saying is saying where where's the least amount of harm done If there was going to be a budget cut, right? I get so here is the thing last time I felt like I guess I felt unsure about how it would be implemented and feeling like what was said was And I'm paraphrasing but something about there's more para's At rumney now it's being said now. I understand a little more about how it's being used My fear was if we just said, okay, there's more let's cut Well, if if if the design has been dependent on it to suddenly shift because the board cut money I would be very nervous about how that would impact students and how that would impact staff Versus the audit process But now I'm hearing that if we had said, you know cut this amount of money There would have been more of a I guess I would call it a soft landing services wouldn't just be yanked because We don't yank services and and I and as a board member last time Because we didn't get into the specifics. That's how I left feeling was I don't know it felt like something wasn't quite right, but I don't know what the plan would be If we were to agree financially to to address it It it made me a little unsure I think we're gonna move move on to point. Yep. Okay So you can complete his thoughts Sorry, no, that's all right. I don't even know what to say. That's another part. Um, so, um Yeah, I I I don't want to exceed the threshold And I I guess The idea of Of paying the pen like regardless of how we might feel about the validity or the the um The penalty itself and why it's in place and whatnot. Um, I for us basically asking, um community members to Pay more and pay more dollars that isn't actually investing in um Our local school I have a hard time, um Moving forward with that and being feeling comfortable and supporting that um I around the capital fund, uh You know, I have a A different perhaps feeling that I did going in knowing that Uh, what we do now about reserve funds and how we can transfer them and whatnot that gives us more flexibility Than I initially thought So I guess what I'm going with that is that, uh, could I potentially Uh, live with the 60 that we've at this point allocated knowing that it's um that we would Basically make up for that and more so with the transfer later in the year And it would allow us to get under the threshold I could get behind that You guys are talking so far above my head. Does that does that brian mean that you wouldn't need to make cuts then? We got if we got below the threshold. Yeah, just exactly what you laid out just then um, if we if we get below the mean To get below the threshold we're gonna have to cut somewhere And so it's cutting from our, you know allocation to the capital fund It's you know or it's to services and programs Or it could be to other things that's sort of what I understood but I thought I sort of heard you say I'm sorry you need to do this, but I just I just wanted to understand It sounded like you were saying that you would get below the threshold Via the capital fund. No, I guess so what I was saying is that uh while I'm not I've been not in support of us reducing the capital fund at the level that was originally proposed I knowing that we can transfer funds into the Into that budget from our reserve funds at the end of the year I could live with that if it got us below the threshold penalty thresholds. Okay, does that make sense? I think so, but it still doesn't leave me quite clear on whether that would still necessitate. You still need $31,000 Okay, thank you. Um, and so like I've cut quite. Yeah, and so like questions I have and um, This is at its point isn't it picking uh, but it's you know, what You know, what what are the extras that the uh, the school is currently paying? And and things and maybe it's nothing but i'm thinking like our sugaring program or artisan residency Those are tiny. Yeah, those are the four wins. Those are tiny. Those are But you see tiny like Like do you talk about like 10 15 20 we're talking 500 a thousand We're I mean four wins. It's maybe four k We took it all over. I don't know exactly the pto fund raises for residency and also playing performances Yep, right. All right. I mean, I know we didn't that doesn't cost us anything Sugaring really doesn't I mean that's all volunteer based But four ones for that's four that's four thousand dollars, right? I mean, I'm like it wasn't for that. It was 1800 okay, okay, yeah, okay, um but I mean So the those those types of things that I think we at least need to at least I I feel like we need Need to consider where you know, um, and I'm not advocating for cutting Spanish, but You know if people want to protect Spanish, you know, well, what are we potentially willing to to lose? Instead of of that or Whatever other program it might be or staff position. It might be I think about the food service and this is Probably completely impractical at this time It's game, but we always hear about how well Dodie does with their food service budget I understand it's because of the community involvement with it But could we partner with them and will there be cost savings if we were You know providing the same sort of operating the same meal service kitchen to both to both schools You know looking for Different ways to whittle this down Fair enough the thing that occurs to me is technology. I'm kind of in woden's boat So I wonder like how much, you know, do we require from go ahead? I had some other questions is that um, you know, I noticed a $5,000 increase under Technology software from Last year to this year Is there is that Is that can you be that 8,000 and dissipated to be an ongoing expense or is that Is there we know what the increase is for Is that at page 11 the top of page 11 page 10 Under instruction related technology services some of that's green box So 5,000 of that is green box To that which we didn't which we hadn't budgeted For previously at this point. It's not covered in the su technology because it is a pilot here. Got it. Okay We have a $4,000 increase in field trips Um, oh, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm looking at the wrong. I was looking at We cut it the year before and we saw our actuals for around seven. So we made it okay We go back to actuals we go back to We go back and rebase the budget every year Uh, the other question I had is that at one point in time we had Equistodians and now I know we don't have Three full time but we have three different three different people to people. I don't know if that Is this equals the same amount of employees as it was before it's close enough. It was more employees More fte's than what we had before but what we need to cover this building for the cleaning needs Is it with more people though? Are we incurring more? Um We had some services coming from u32 and the cost shift was about the same Maybe benefits you told me. That's what I mean. Yeah, yeah No No, it doesn't change though If we go from fractional to But probably actually what does it add if I'm you telling them what does it I'm asking you since we have three Instead of two people are we paying three people benefit rather than two? No because there's already paying people through the su We just moved to a building base for more flexibility for our own staffing So if somebody was out sick, that's easier. It's easier for us to be able to call our own person And to cover their colleague Then it was to get somebody who's already booked fully to u32 So um, so did we incur an additional cost in order to achieve that? No Not really it was just moving from in a u32 cost fee into our own personnel you know the uh, $30,000 is 100 0.01 percent of the entire three million two hundred seventy five thousand dollar budget To show you how small it is but it carries weight because of the penalty because it's threshold Um, I'll be quick. I've been a very different place than I was last Meaning I am willing to go with this budget as laid out. I think um Capital fund for the reasons that have been discussed. Um, and also because of your extraordinary fiscal conservatism, and I feel pretty confident that it is not going to be 30k, but um quite a bit less Um, but I am willing to go over the threshold up to that You think the threshold will be less than 30 um Well, my understanding is if we don't We don't budget. I mean if we don't spend the entire amount then it's on the thresholds on based on the budget spending amount Okay, so Oh, I see. Okay. The penalties get set in this july got it by the between the tax department and Yeah, we don't know exactly who does it just to be clear. We could do a budget that's 31,000 over Next year spend 31,000 less than we Intended but we still get hit with the That that was my point in trying to find A loophole around it. Although the more I think about it feels a little Like fraud like misleading right like it's a little It's just hard because I have every budget is I maybe because I don't it's not my role to understand why you But why you budget that way? So once we're in the penalty zone, um, we're in the penalty zone, right? Yeah, and like I said, it I just don't we had the best for we have one of the best forecasters in the state She does a good job, but things can change. We just don't you know, it's like it's it's just like making the snow day call Yesterday I had a forecast that was telling me not to go to school And I had town crews that were telling me go to school and I went with a forecast You know, I think you made the right call and I think I made the right call Some days it's some some days. I don't make the right call. You know, it's the information you have It's it's the information you have at that point. We have the best information we can give you right now And that's what you have what? It's not going to change in the next month. It's going to change may okay So I'm just going to go back there though. What is so if versus a penalty Versus going over budget Accidentally by 31,000. Why is that like? I haven't looked into what is in the statute to tell me if there's a A reverse type of penalty or not. I haven't ever asked that question So I know how it's mechanically done In july when you have a budget So we can have a major system failure that cost us, you know 60 to 80 thousand dollars, so then we would probably be applying for a waiver with the state of ramon And we don't intentionally Budget so that we have a hundred thousand dollar surplus No, we budget based on what we think is going to spend And then we are very careful of how much and we only spend what's usually the biggest places where we get savings Is that a personnel either we get changes someone leaves and someone comes Someone changes their health care A life Incident happens so that changes their health care. You know, that's where that's that's where the dollars are I mean in any school budget I haven't done the percentage for rummy. So let's just call it 70% Is in hr costs You know, I I haven't done it in a year or two for rummy So it that's where them and that's and that's where the forecasting is happening If you look at everything else outside of that's not a personnel. Those are really solid numbers Because the personnel costs is not the cost of Someone's south well actually this year because we're in negotiations. So we have a factor in there for that What did we factor? I will not say that an open session because you're in negotiations right now Okay, and if say we factored Hypothetically 1% and we go into negotiations and we agree to 2 I was gonna say like 5 5% but like Say we agreed to 2 but we don't agree until august 1st So we're in and then our personnel in previous years where that's come from. Yeah, fund balance So Whatever's figured in here. Can we decrease it by 31 000? Go into negotiations And then move from the fund balance I Don't I really don't like the threshold. That's all you can do that. I would not recommend it. Okay I think it's because the It will affect negotiations Um It's an ethical thing for me. You do the best you can with the numbers you have We have a pretty good shot of what we know We're pretty close. We've been pretty close every year about whenever we're in negotiations about where we land Okay, I haven't been off Well, I haven't been off and I don't think Laurie's been off more than a percentage point a long time How much is a percentage point? Wait 1% I don't know if you say 70% of the budget Yeah, don't go that way. Okay. Okay. I don't want to scare you Can you use your calculator? Sure I'm pretty good at doing that and we know health insurance or we don't we do That's Well, you're looking that up though. Just so I understand There's really a hundred thousand dollars. That's kind of capital if you go to the reductions You have 60 thousand that's going to capital funding and then we have this 40 thousand. That's An average of what's spent on technology But both those are items that could be skipped for A year or at least reduced for a year without impact to the school. That's not true Technology would have impact at school If you but you don't have to spend the 40 000 next year like we just got a bunch of new technology You could spend 20 000 next year and 60 the following You're you're making a hole that will cost you more the next year We we went down to 90 in the capital fund last year with the expectation that we would fund it at 120 this year Once you go down Anytime you go down you make a double cliff and you make double the amount the next year But that might actually be cheaper than hitting the cliff Two times particularly if the merger happened And there isn't the same cliff if they cost us If the merger happens there wouldn't be a cliff this year because all the budgets would be combined Just seem to be able to be bringing our cliff with us, right? If we underfunded right? Right True to have to make up for it. What was what wouldn't once we're sent Uh, what's what's one percent worth in salary? So your question is garland about 15 000, but that's across all personnel Okay, so the 30 000 was that would be a significant percentage. They are talking 2% Yeah, I understand now In my head it was like 0.2 Okay, um, are we ready to We'll just one more question. So bill in terms of the equalized people Numbers that are coming out whenever they come out. Yeah Do you have a sense of how that is likely to shift us? And what kind of numbers we're talking about and you know, how could that affect our budget? So here's part of this that's not an easy question to answer the reason for that is that The taxes in middle sex are based on the number of students you have at u32 And the number of students you have here at rumney so One of the things that middle sex has been in a place for the past couple years like right now for next year We're looking at 54 of the students are in this school has been as high as 60 percent the bubble is moving That's why we're projecting roma to really go down the next couple years. Okay So the bubble's moving to u32 So while you say that if I take The cost Ed spending The calculator So the rumney education spending this is not a number you have in front of you, but this is the number that's the denominator and all this is 3,083,536 dollars, you know, you can write that down, but It's just kind of how you get to the calculation. You have right now in this draft as of December 28 152 equalized pupils So if I change that So that gives you an end spending now. This is not The penalty formula. Okay, but this is it. I'm giving you a kind of a back in the envelope way to do this So don't take this as a this is your equalize spending because I haven't taken out the revenue The cost allowment for the volunteer and all that big picture But this is the easiest way to answer your question voting without going running an excel spreadsheet Is 20,286 dollars per pupil if I change if I decrease it by one Number of students number of students equalize. I'm just trying to give you the effect of decrease. That was really woden's question The way I understood it. So then the equalize spending becomes 20,420 So what that was a difference of $400 okay good because I'm not when I do numbers like this I can't even keep I'm usually pretty good with numbers in my head But not and if I increase it Because I'm Not writing anything down Five three six divided by 153 Then I get uh, if I go to 153 it's 20,153 So it's a difference that's you know, that's a that's a shift of two That's a shift of two Yeah, you know of for $300. So, you know, maybe it's 150 Per equalize people 200 dollars per equalize people. We're not talking much amounts of money here Well, you are when you get into the penalty area because what I haven't done is backed out the cost of the bond And your threshold is 18,311 so, I mean it just You you really get into pennies here. I mean, that's why we give you the total amount in the budget that you're away from it and that's why you know This is this sounds cruel, but it's just the way it's done in finance circles the way it's said An elementary student when equalized is not worth 1.0 student It's worth A ratio and that's the last ratio they calculate once they know all the student information in the state Right now it's running at about 93.2 A couple more students couple less students that could run to 90 93.5 And that changes the weight in the equalization and then changes the number of pupils you have I don't think it's going to move more than one or two You know overall because we've got all but two or three issues in but It's not solid And they're I mean knowing brad james brad's on top of this stuff the best he can So when we I thought that I was Looking for something else and not hearing all this. Are we saying that we're looking at on 20,000 For people. Well, yeah, I mean your your cost for pupil right now your cost your local head spending per equalized pupil is 20,286 right now Okay, so, you know your that's I mean, that's just where you're at that's That and so, you know You've got it. You're not far away from it, but you've got to get That's that's the 38 and I said I brought you seven more tonight kind of on the back of the envelope because You know Lord told me hey, I think we can do 7,000 energy savings between electricity and heat That that's we've been reviving. I don't know how many times We've gone through this budget trying to look for I mean what when you you know, you guys talk about little individual things We can do yes I think the theory that most of us operate on As administrators is you can do those little things But they're not gonna There are little pieces that give the culture part and the learning program for the school While it hurts an individual to not say they have a job To me it's I've always said to boards. It's the second first thing I have to do the first thing is say a student You don't can't come to school. You're expelled Is that Usually we find a way in schools in my career to find a way to get that work done It's not as easy. It means change. It's not nice to the person and it usually happens You ready to call the question? We'll at least start voting on potential options Okay Anyone want to make a motion? No, it's too confusing. No idea what it would be. Okay, then then I will take a stab at it So bill this this budget number of three million two hundred seventy five thousand four hundred and sixty seven Assumes an overage of thirty one thousand dollars. No, it doesn't you'd have to take seven thousand dollars off of that Off of this number off of that memo number. Okay, so two sixty eight then Four seventy. No, I'm sorry. No Let me do it for you Chris. Four sixty Three two seven five four sixty you'd have Four sixty seven and eight you'd have Three million two hundred sixty eight thousand four hundred sixty seven four sixty seven. Okay, I'm just to use the zeroes in there Great. Thank you Okay, so I would move that we adopt the budget of three million two hundred and sixty eight thousand four hundred and sixty seven dollars um for the 2019 2020 school year Understanding that it might put us in the penalty zone And I make that part of our motion so that our community knows that we're doing that up front Second Okay, any more discussion Yes, sorry If we merge It does not include a penalty or it includes less of a penalty If you were merged looking at all the other budgets, the whole district would be under the threshold under the threshold so There would be no penalty and then you have been asked to um Move in the direction as though merging is happening. Yeah, I As I said to everyone who asked me how to keep my license I have to do it so ordered by this secretary of education. Yep So in terms of us voting Yeah, okay, so Each of the schools were developing their budget and then they were going to be combined to At least be roughly the unified budget for the first Year. Yep We're not looking to do much different than what's done at these boards and we're not kind of hoping that Okay, I'm ready to vote them. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay. Um Are we do we need to make any type of What type of procedure do we need to follow to? Direct monies from the reserve Fund to the capital fund you would have another you would have another motion at some point To move the money like you have another years when you put money around Would anyone entertain Um a motion on that prior to voting on this So you want to table this motion and address Yes a motion on moving the reserve. Okay, so that's that's no, no, no, no problem with that I feel a little bit more comfortable with the vote having already made Us all us having a vote On what to do with that money. Okay. So, um, what is currently in our fund balance? Is that 140 some 1000s that counter people let me look Just so we know what the one thing we're taught me well is don't try to see numbers here So what's the why would we not be? Um 31 k into the penalty zone If we merged Okay, only in the or if the no no if the numbers come back differently Um, they would potentially reduce offer people because there's factors there If there's so many numbers it's our equalized people numbers the board hasn't set what they consider the appropriate Per people spending got it. Actually, they have they did that in statute back in 2015. There's factors of what the dollar yield is So that's where maybe they said that back in 2015 they said and it's a long conversation. I'm not going to go into Years ahead got it So you currently have 151,000 in your general fund balance, which is 4.6 percent That's 20,000 21 was 21,000 over the 4 percent Um What's in our reserve fund right now? Your reserve fund for capital is that what you meant elson? So currently it's 144,000 What are we asking what what is our reserve capital fund? Oh How much 144,000 is our capital fund reserve? Okay And what's your motion right? So yeah, so I'm trying to I'm trying to figure this out as I go exactly how to I feel like we need to To first determine how much money we should have set aside to pay bills So I can't tell you that today. I just I I I I understand you can view that but even a ballpark like should we have 2550 right now where you're at I wouldn't move more than Then if you have 150 I wouldn't move more than 60 into your capital fund, but if we set it for Uh effective june 30th. Could we do that? Yeah It would be a contingent motion and just have a date certain when that would happen And you could set reasons to revoke So yeah, you can you can change it can move it back at any time But one caution is the as I've read the statutes It talks about funds dedicated to specific purposes. So when you make that motion Whether it's now or in june, I think you'd want to say the specific things for matt's list that I wouldn't I wouldn't go into there because I think that's actually hampers This board and the other board, but I would I'm going to go where I thought you were going to go Is if you need to get back into those funds in the capital fund because it's a voter approved Fund you can go do that, but it's it's harder to pull money out of that capital fund reserve I'd rather have you Do something tonight That makes you feel better and I'm telling you I'm recommending to you as your superintendent You don't go over 60,000 to move into that capital fund and then do it again later In the capital fund The language when it talks about things not being pooled It says funds dedicated to specific identified school purposes does capital fund According to our attorney our attorney believed he said there is no statute on this chrisley upholds probably the most knowledgeable person on all this Merging and non-merging and he's with the voluntary mergers as well. He's talked about you know having The capital reserve funds if they were intended for run me coming in they stay with run me or dodie and and people The other elementary schools are having the same discussion about you know, let's Let's make sure those funds get as flush as we can with our general fund balance Well, some are talking about spending those as much because there is a risk it gets Fooled if it's not no actually there isn't that's what I'm saying is our legal attorney our legal counsel wrong Right. That's the risk No, no not We nail yeah I just wonder the motion should be to A commitment to move the maximum amount in june, but not actually put the wording In now, so I think we'll have a better sense in june where everything and I'd rather do it then That's what i'm suggesting to the board that they do I'm trying to help with the feeling of the 60k. Yeah, and I I could feel comfortable keeping 90 which is That's getting low because a couple System fail, which I doubt is going to happen this building, but we have a couple kids come in that are high cost Which you just never know We could be eating the rest of that fund balance up I mean the system fail would come out of the capital Could if there was a system could come out of the capital too versus kids would not yeah, they'd be either reserve general reserve fund balance I I mean that's where I feel comfortable saying to you if you want to move 60 tonight move 60 tonight And they do the rest in june So just you said it's more difficult to Take funds out of out of the castle So I've never had to go totally research it But I have I remember asking scott cameron this question and scott was like, you know You can do it. The board's had the authority to move it out Um, I don't know if he was talking is that when it's a voter I have votes to say we want the voters established dollars. No no the voters established this fund Okay, so the voters have authorized and the technology fund They've established those funds for because they put is it their authorization of a certain amount of money that they're voting No, so any money that goes in it's the establishment because the voters are giving you authority to appropriate the audited fund balance To wherever you would like to do it. Okay for needs for the school Okay Um, do you want to make a motion? Uh, yes, I moved to transfer 60 000 of fund balance into the building maintenance fund Is there a second? second Any discussion All in favor All right, any opposed? Okay, that passes So now we'll take up the second the table motion Oh, does anybody want me to repeat it? Okay All in favor Are we still in discussion? Oh, we can. Yeah. Yeah, so We have there is the possibility that numbers come back and These these numbers change this like we could be um More than 31 000 over. Yes. So my question is do we want to set a threshold of on the threshold like we are We are willing to so Let's say it's just 31 000 that we're over the threshold But that is the ceiling and that if it comes back and it's 50 then We need to Cut that's out because we need to then make the cut and it would mean that we weren't merging Well, no because we could get information back Even sooner on other factors, right? They could I said may may okay Because the only thing we don't have Is what the legislature sets the dollar yield at? What is the expected timeline on the merger decisions? No idea or no So the big issue is whether or not The whether the court will be going to stay The decision of the board Which would mean we would stay as we are until a decision is final Which would be maybe it could be a year or two with the ag's office agreed to we asked them to go along with a stay Um arguing that you know They were they were a hat that's a little bit of an attorney in a private practice because although they're defending the the agency Of education and the board They also have the interests of they should have the interests of of the uh living against the plaintiffs and mine too Because that is part of the state So we try to talk them to a uh And they wouldn't do that, but they did say if you give us until january 30th to answer your motion To stay We will agree to kick these Organization meetings back in de february and then we will both see if we can encourage the court to hold a hearing on the stay It decided before february 15th That's asking a lot of the court because of what it has to absorb But I think the court will make an effort to do that So the direct answer to your question is we have some hope that by the 15th where there are ballots, you will know whether We're uh, we've got to keep going plowing forward with uh app 46 or whether whether the whole world Okay, so then we would know we could set the threshold and we would know by may But it's may Final decision right no, but it would be a stay If there were and then chances are you wouldn't merge by july 1st Almost by as a this is a practicality. They have to go to july 20 right