 So are we already here hearing our first talk Samantha? Hello So, yeah, uh, let's see so At least Samantha and I are prepared for the first session, which is what is it called in the? Schedule it's me and HPC right me and HPC or something. Yeah Yeah, I learned to stop worrying and love computing So this is sort of like the story of Like the big picture of what we're doing here and why And what nice things come out of it Let's see. Do we have a section for The skip I think one of our hack MD people will add a section down there So, yeah, um What are we here to talk about? So well first off is this icebreaker, which is the first thing. So Samantha, how did you start your computing? And well, who are you and how did you start your computing and then I'll answer Yeah, maybe I'll start with who am I so hi everybody um, I'm background during informatics person um, right now I'm doing a part-time PhD and I'm also like a researcher at the finished geospatial research institute or the PhD is at alto and the finished geospatial research institute and Then I also recently started as a geoinformatics specialist at CSC, which you will also hear about later today Already and then I think in the last day as well And like Sima already said like I I went through the whole thing in the last five or six years about from like getting to know what is scientific computing and getting to know what is a high performance computer and everything towards Where I'm now actually helping people like you probably To use the the high performance computing systems and Really enjoying also the community aspects of it together with alto and then also code refinery people and just discussing all these things that I Would not have known anything about Before I started the PhD before I started like in this more computational research field So I'm really happy to be here And maybe Richard you can introduce yourself as well So I'm Richard Darst. I started my studies in chemical engineering then chemistry then a bunch of other stuff So to answer the question number four, I haven't ever really formally studied this computing stuff And in fact, whenever I started so I started I first got involved in some research during my bachelor's degree And I didn't really know what I was getting into like I had only dabbled with computers and programming a little bit But didn't consider myself very good or very specialist or anything But I really enjoyed it and from there well By paying a bit more attention to that than the science behind stuff Then I eventually arrived where I am now Where are you now? Oh, yeah, that's okay. So I work at alto university in the science IT team Or as we call ourselves alto scientific computing And a lot like Samantha why I'm Here and I support people with the computing So it's not so much about the like doing the calculations or Yeah, so like Samantha said my interest is not well I enjoy the programming and the calculation computing But what really makes it good is the community and being able to help people And working together in great teams to do things like like this workshop Yeah, so Let's see Did we answer maybe for me as well, um, how I started this a little bit When I when I really like got to know into this whole scientific computing thing um, I came from University from the masters where we have been taught a lot of commercial software commercial graphical user interface or GUI software which like was the Well, the thing they did in the in the courses Generally, I think nowadays it's already gotten a bit better But it also depends depends a bit on the field what what is really taught And then when I started at the finish just bitch research institute task was like to process a lot of data that Where we then just need the results in the end So that was like what I got and then I was also already told like Yeah, this is so much data and the processing gets in between quite complicated or something like that That you cannot really run it on your laptop. So there is this csc high performance computer Uh go there Do their courses get to know how to use it and then you can do your processing there. Yeah, and Yeah, I made lots of mistakes there as well and very inefficient workflows In the beginning but through that I also then learned a lot by asking questions from the support team By talking to people doing similar stuff Yeah Okay, and that got me here now Cool So we've talked a lot about Uh scientific computing. So like what what is this thing that we're mentioning? Yeah, and I guess there is also then this uh like computing for science or computers for science and computational science we had uh talked about and Yeah, I I guess Is it definable? Yeah, like Some one of my friends once told me You all like you all always talk about scientific computing, but what is that like you all Are saying that's what your team does, but I think you just made that up and I'm really not sure like Yesterday we were trying to define what these things meant Maybe let's come down to the section. Let's ask the question. What is scientific computing versus computational science versus whatever else So my personal definition was something like What wasn't So scientific computing implies something slightly more about the tools and the processes of doing the computation while um Like the computational science is the A term that's more focused on the scientific domains somehow Oh wait, was there there was something like yeah And what's different between the scientific computing and using computers? Yeah, I guess the The using computers for science Many disciplines like touch that at some point like when you have your lab Experiments or something and you need to record your Your experimental result or something then you maybe have an excel sheet where you put in your Your results and then in the end maybe you sum it up or you you do some statistical calculation Uh very basic just for your report And I think that falls more than into this using computers for science. Maybe. Yeah But from there, it's rather easy to then go more to scientific computing like when you when you see what what you do with this data What you do Uh with the data that you have collected. Yeah, and what tools do you use to do something to it? Like I've always thought of yeah, like Somehow like what would you say it's like If you're doing scientific computing versus use to get a computer you're somehow Making new things or somehow connecting things Like you're doing more than using off the shelf consumer products and pushing some buttons But you have to make some buttons yourself Is that Yeah, right you need to to give something to get something And I guess there It also depends a lot on yourself like this scientific computing. It's not one thing for everyone But uh, there is really a different path That you can approach this and that you can uh, also Like get into it um Like there is people that like just maybe want to Uh want to use some tools to do the job and then are done with it and then There's other people that are like really more interested In the tools and what is the most efficient way to do one thing And that then read and learn a lot About what is out there and try to find the really the the perfect tool for the job But not everyone also has to do that like Not everyone needs to find the most efficient way of doing a job Sometimes it's also just enough Yeah to get it done and then be done with it and be happy about it like um Would you say that um Yeah, yeah, like I've worked with people and I've always been the person that's more interested in the tools somehow And thus has been the mentor to other people who are slightly more focused on the science Are you sort of like that also? Sounds like you're in the right position Yeah Yeah, I guess I I went there fairly recently I would say like that in the beginning it was more like finding the tool that does the job because like I needed to have time for For the research for the research itself Also, so it was like, okay. I found the tool. It does the job So I'm happy with it even if it takes a bit longer or if it uses too many resources or whatever Um, but yeah lately. I've been getting more interested to also then be able to help Our users or my fellow researchers To to do it more efficiently without themselves spending a lot of time on doing this kind of research on the tools And I guess when starting out with it Uh, it's very easy that you feel very overwhelmed. I remember that feeling as well for me when I started it was Like I said, I use this commercial GUI software so with the user interface And then suddenly they told me oh, yeah on the On the HPC system, you have to use the command line. So you can talk to it only by typing something. You cannot click anything Um, then this and this software you cannot use there. So you have to like find other software to do your To do your stuff and then also because We needed our own very tailored solution for this process There was also this programming topic still in the room. So that was the question of which programming language to learn now and How to get started with it, so uh, I very much remember this feeling of being overwhelmed By all the possibilities and all the tools that are out there and yeah, I think this Course the upcoming next day's hopefully helps you a lot with that. Yeah sort of had the same thing like I've Like there's so many things I've seen so many people like it seems almost that everyone's Overwhelmed with all these things to learn Especially coming from your courses and then needing to start Doing things like people say, okay, let's do projects in your courses to prepare for the real world But the real world still seems so much different than these projects somehow, right? like Yeah, like how many different things people one need to know. Yeah Yeah, it's really crazy And then like of course one also fears to do things wrong than especially when you are Going like outside of your own computer Well, this seems more like a safe environment when you're on your own computer But then when you go to other places and use these bigger systems For example, then there is this feeling of oh no now I cannot do anything wrong because I might break other people's Stuff yeah Yeah, I think yeah like And I wonder if that also sort of holds people back somehow like you know Yeah, but You did say yesterday. Is there actually something you can break much? Yeah, is this fear reasonable? Yeah, so Yeah, a lot of other people's things Shouldn't be so even if you're a little bit inefficient when you're starting off There's people that are doing far bigger things and well You're small like yeah when you're starting you're doing small things and I mean if if the system was designed where you could break something for other people then it's a problem of the system Not a problem with you so Yeah, so maybe someone is even grateful if you break something Just then you found a place where things do not go as they should And I'd like to think that most support staff get in the or Understand when people are new and you know, we really want people to be able to do better computing. So that's really important But yeah, like and if you if you really like Sorry Yeah, I was gonna say I guess they say don't let perfect get in the way of doing things better So right yeah Like these days one of my catchphrases is worse is better And you can go Like find it on wikipedia and read about the philosophy, but yeah, like there's so many times I tell people Okay, like just let's make it a little bit better and then keep improving it rather than spending forever trying to make things perfect Yeah, and it also depends what you want to do with it afterwards. Like if it's just for you currently right now Just do it and if it works then it's fine And then you can always come back and do things more efficiently and do it step by step But it's it's usually good to have it have it there first because then maybe your colleague or whoever Does something with what you have produced there can at least start working Yeah, and I think that's it's quite important to To keep that in mind that things do not have to be perfect also in preparation of for asking questions from the From from people who are maybe more experienced Yeah, you don't have to have tried everything to to like start asking others on how how how to do it better or how to Yeah, how to do it actually Yeah, and I think we will hear also Still today something about this Yeah, how to best ask questions and what to keep in mind there Yeah, it's like how how did you ask for help when you were young So I see there's a question in hack and d like how long do you spend time? Or how long to spend on a problem in computer science one week then give up try a different route I mean, what about work a little bit and then ask for help or then work with someone else So what's your thoughts on the matter? I I usually like to spend some time Myself if I have an idea of how it could work. So then I start and like google around a bit But And and then maybe if I don't find the right solution for me, I go and ask for Experiences from others that I know do similar things And if those are nonexistent, then maybe also ask the support team of the Well in alto, it's the alto scientific computing support For example, um, but sometimes there's also problems where I have no idea how I would start even googling anything about it and then it might be good to go for example to the Garage or go to people who have experience with it and know better maybe Explain what you want to do and then there can come out at least some some starting points Where to start looking for? Yeah for things that can help you. Yeah Like I've developed a theory that how would you like? Oh go ahead How would you like to people to do it like would you would you want people to come right away? I mean, yeah, or would you like to do some research people should definitely be coming sooner But I think the most important aspect is sort of the community somehow Like you can best learn from the people in your office And I mean you could say that yeah remote work makes this a little bit more difficult But also I saw that Working in the same office isn't necessarily better if like everyone has their own computer in their own corner and you're not um close to each other um Yeah, like Yeah, I've I've also seen it in many occasions now that it's actually It's easier to go in a zoom chat and then really share your own screen to ask something specific about your own code or to Um, like maybe even pair program something together Then sitting next to each other and staring or trying to stare at one screen with one keyboard And nowadays there's so many tools that help with Really also doing it together not even screen share, but um Where you can work in the same document together and see what the other one is writing. Yeah So in a way, I also think that this online did not necessarily um Make it worse, but in some ways, maybe even make made it better. Yeah Yeah And yeah, like I've seen many of my previous groups all of the group meetings are about presenting science So basically hide all of the steps you took to get there and then say some result And that's not really sharing this kind of knowledge. So make sure that you build this knowledge sharing into your daily work and Yeah, learn from each other ask the expert or whoever your um Like people within your immediate community and then you can go up and ask for More help from larger people Yeah, and if you can like talk to your colleagues that have at least a similar research topic then you there might always be Uh, something surprising coming up some tool that you have not thought about or anything like that or Like when you are really on your own because your colleagues do very different things then um There you can still talk to your rubber duck On your desk and like tell tell the problems that you have and sometimes like talking it out loud Really makes you then think differently about it and you you get to the Kind of solution or at least a starting point for your problem yourself. Yeah, and then of course there is all the The support staff that that is there for you with an Open ear or and that reads your emails. Yeah when you have specific problems. Yeah So what are the next steps to? um Do things We sort of yeah Like the other day we were remembering this we divided things up into three We thought there's three fundamental skills which Are not often learned in courses and are sort of the basis for everything else So what were these Samantha? there was um So like I mentioned also already the command line environment that might be new to Too many people when starting out with the computing side of research That maybe before it was mostly like clicking because that's usually or very often what is easier to teach in the University courses But then again Some software has it actually also quite openly available how you can In the in the graphical user interface how you can also do the same thing in the command line and So like if you know how to do one thing in the in the user interface In the graphical user interface, then it's Not such a big step as you maybe think to go to the command line. Yeah Yeah And the second of the fundamental skills was version control. So basically keeping your things organized well And we don't really go into that in this course, but the other code refinery workshops are basically all about this And then also data management. So uh, like really from How you have the data in your own like Folder structure on your computer or wherever you have it And then you had the macro data management as well Yeah Okay, so I guess we're Yeah, with that we're almost out of time. So what comes next during the course? So, um well You can see the schedule We've got a bunch of sort of high level talks on Elaborating on many of the things we've seen here sort of going through to um Yeah