 I'm joined now by Suzanne Moore, columnist at The Guardians. What can what's going on in Westminster tell us about other workplaces in Britain? You've written that this shows that Westminster is finally coming up to the 1970s, but do you think it is qualitatively different what's going on in Westminster? What particularities are there with the Westminster sexual harassment scandal and the condition of women in work generally? Well, Westminster is this sort of small contained environment that operates with its own rules and some of the things that we've seen are a complicity. For instance, the political parties will control the way that they deal with this stuff by saying, we've basically got dirt on you. I mean, the Tories are known for it. I'm not saying they've never done it, but we have some evidence that the Tories will say, we know that you're having an affair, you vote this way. So that kind of thing, you like young boys, you vote this way. So that's a complicity and abuse that's set up within a system. And another thing is that most people, normal people when they go to Westminster, feel this is a very strange place with very odd strange rules. It smells really weird. It just smells strange. But a certain kind of person, public school, people go there and feel at home. And what they feel at home with is often being in single sex environments where people are really other. I mean, who are these people who cannot be in a lift with somebody without touching them up? I mean, it's an extreme sort of behavior, exacerbated by the fact that, you know, as people have said for years and years, it's a place with seven or eight bars, one of the bars is for bishops. So not even MPs can go, no bars, but so you've got all these bars, but no childcare. You know, this is this is the kind of strange organization of Westminster. And the other thing is a symbiosis between politicians and journalists. Journalists themselves, the world of journalism is very hypocritical and will trade all several information. So these things all prop each other up. And it is not good for anybody. Often you get young, ambitious people, men and women who just feel that they can't say anything or just can't cope. One of the things that's really sad, I think at the moment is that some people are saying, well, especially these kind of these sort of Harrod and women who say, I can cope. I can go actually, where are the people who couldn't cope? You know, you just couldn't hack it. You just didn't want to live like that. And there's a lot of people that should be in politics, should be in journalism, should be in positions of power that just aren't. I want to actually focus on that, what you've commented on about the relationship between journalists and politicians, meaning that this hasn't come out. Because I actually think that hasn't been discussed very much. It's been written a lot about how the whips having a vested interest in having secrets on politicians makes them inclined to not make that a formal complaint because it's quite useful to have a secret on someone. Do you think journalists have been doing the same thing? I think certain journalists have been part of this because of the lobby system. Because if you're locked out of that system, it's said that you can't get stories. I mean, the only two bits of journalism that I find so closed is fashion journalism and political journalism. I went to a fashion show once and people were crying because they couldn't get into Versace because they'd slagged off the last Versace collection, they thought they weren't letting, they couldn't do their jobs. And there's a little bit about the way the lobby operates, which I don't think any organization should, especially now, have anything to do with it. They just should not agree to, because it's politicians setting the access under rules by which journalists operate. And out of that comes all this kind of, this kind of quite sideways bizarre behavior and clubby behavior between sort of gangs and guys. No, I think journalists are part of this problem because a lot of journalists is also in kind of, I'm so cool because I know this stuff about people way. Journalists will exchange information like, oh, we all knew he was gay, didn't you know that? Or, you know, all this sort of stuff. And they will also excuse certain, you know, journalists are also very male dominated, but they will excuse behavior, especially, I mean, I'm not talking about necessarily the rape, I'm talking about known sort of harassers who just regularly wear down women. And that happens. And it's very hard when you go into Westminster. When I first went to Westminster in the 90s, you know, my editor said, I said, well, how do I get stories? And he said, and obviously it was years and years ago, he said, well, you just wear a short skirt and stand in central lobby and catch the eye of MPs when they come out of discussions, of debates. And I was, what? I mean, I literally stand around and he said, you know, and their view was, as a woman, you'd have the advantage because you would catch the eye of these. And then they take you to lunch and then you talk about the various things going on in the lobby and they might put their hand on your leg at the end. And the other thing was this culture of lunching which I was suddenly involved with, which I'd never, you know, not something that I'd ever had anything to do with these long lunches, lots of alcohol. The other thing is that, and that has changed in Westminster, they just used to be pissed all day. A lot of drinking all day long, no, it's true. I think a lot of them still are pissed all day, right? Or is that the lords now? The lords and the bishops. But there's some are, but it is less, you know, it is less than it was. But, you know, you could, the reason that they have to be in the bars, apparently, till 10, 11, 12, whatever, is because they're waiting for the division bell. But what you've got is also a lot of people who don't live with their families. You know, those ones that get caught having a moment of madness or not knowing what they're doing or what about, I mean, there must be loads of them. I'm surprised there's not more of them really. It's, they do live a very bizarre, we ask MPs to live a very bizarre lifestyle. But they are completely propped up, they've propped each other up. I mean, I heard Caroline Nuka's talk the other day about the difference between the European Parliament, you know, which is arranged in a circular way, whereas the arse is adversarial. So, you know, it used to be that when a Labour woman got up to speak, the Tory guys start weighing her breasts, you know, they make that action. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now that's in public. What are they going to do in private, exactly? I think it's easy to dwell on the kind of repulsive behaviour of these odd, older, rich, posh men. And sometimes what happens is you forget the actual consequences of it, which is that it discourages women from going into politics. It stops people progressing in their careers. Have you seen any progress in the last 20 years that gives you hope that that might change? And what do you think this particular scandal now, these allegations coming out now, will change? Well, there has been progress. And obviously, not all women are going to speak up, but not all women will change things. But yeah, we need more women in politics. I mean, that's not in question for me. I am really heartened by the fact that younger women will not, and younger guys, just are breaking this silence and making connections about the structures that they work in and not just saying, well, I asked for it or I didn't know what I was doing. They are fundamentally saying, I do not want this to happen to me in the workplace. And they are giving each other confidence by speaking up. And what I hope happens now is that the pressure keeps up. But it doesn't become really, I think you said this, it's not really a party political story. It's a huge political story because the next bit has to connect Westminster to the everyday stuff that women, the harassment that women put up with. And that's a huge loss because I mean, we're talking about patriarchy. I mean, we're talking about, and Westminster of course symbolizes absolutely then the heart of power and certain people feel comfortable with that. But I am heartened by what's happening now. I mean, it's been a long, long time coming. It does feel like a down breaking. And the strength of it is almost for me, I can see it in the backlash. People are trying very, very hard to say, this is a bit of flirtation. And they won't be able to say it when some of the allegations are proved. They just won't. And it sounds ridiculous at this point as well. It does. Cezanne, well thank you so much for coming to the studio today and joining us. This was The Fix. We'll be back in a week's time, hopefully on time. In the meantime, check out Navarra Media's Climate Week all week from Bonn. See you next week.