 Welcome to another collab talk tweet jam, a post-tweet jam interview. Today we're talking about navigating the Microsoft partner ecosystem and I'm joined by Paul. Hey, Paul. Hey, Christian. Hi, everyone. Why don't you introduce yourself for folks that don't know you? Sure. I'm Paul Salski. My day job is I head up AIM International, we're a business development consultancy for partners, and we help ISVs to build partner channels and expanding to international markets. But I'm also a member of the IAMCP and have been so for about nine years. I have two roles at the IAMCP. One is to lead the P2P initiative internationally, and the other one is that I am the Seattle president. Congratulations. For those that don't know, so Paul and I go back years through the Seattle chapter. He was there at the beginning. Jeff Shui and I restarted, we're co-founders of the new, the Seattle chapter of IAMCP and folks that don't know that. It's the International Association of Microsoft Channel Partners, which is all about peer-to-peer networking. You don't go to those meetings trying to find an immediate customer opportunity. They aren't customers that are going to these sessions. It's other partners and then to share in how you can grow your business internationally and I have stories, you have stories of where we've been successful in doing exactly that by leveraging partners. I'm pleased to say Jeff Shui is still the treasure and on the board. Still involved. We've got to rope him in somehow to keep him responsible. I know. The topic today and following on Inspire, it's always good to have a partner discussion in the month of July, talking about the Microsoft ecosystem and we've got changes. We've got a new channel chief. We've got a bunch of changes within the Microsoft Partner Leadership Team and there's also changes to the program itself. We're talking about some of those things. Let's start off. Question number one, what are the top issues facing Microsoft partners in 2022? I know it's subjective. Sure, it's meant to be. So from the partners I speak to and there's small, medium, and large, the feedback is that COVID has been good for business. And if you've been in the right areas where you're dealing with collaboration, security, cloud migration, then some of the partners have had the best years ever. If you're dealing with on-premise and legacy systems and maintenance of those, then chances are that that business has been fairly stagnant. But generally, it's been a good experience with the amount of technology customers were buying. The challenge has been that it's been so good that there is a lack of the right technical resources. So being able to do the projects and getting the right people in and the feedback is that people are pushing projects out because they simply don't have enough people to be able to do them. In terms of issues specifically for 2022, and probably a lot of those have to do with being part of the Microsoft Partner Program or the Cloud Solutions Program, Microsoft is pushing very strongly that everyone that has IP or a solution list themselves on the marketplace and also becomes part of the Co-Sell Ready program. And partners are saying, yes, we'll absolutely do that, but we're still yet to see the ROI on those investments. The marketplace leads and the Co-Sell leads that come to them versus them bringing them to Microsoft. The other thing is that more and more automation is taking place, more wizard-driven applications, everything in the cloud, much, much more simplified. So there continues to be this need to differentiate and differentiate with new technologies and differentiate with new services versus all the other partners that are out there. And the way partners are looking at this is they develop in-house, some develop in-house skills and move into AI and move into the power platform and build solutions around that, but others are looking at partner-to-partner collaboration, building joint solutions and going to market together so that scale out their solutions and they can much more quickly acquire the expertise they need to build better and more complete solutions that enable them to be more competitive with much larger partners and also potentially be able to deliver those solutions, not only in the U.S. but all around the world. So P2P seems to be on many owners, partner-owners' minds on how to scale their business and how to deliver better solutions and how to be more competitive. You know, that's something like my company, AppPoint, we launched our new partner program the day after Inspire last year, last July. And we had a goal of to talk about the growth potential of P2P as an ISV with these solutions and most of what we see, our growth is gonna come through channel, our global rapid growth will continue through channel. We had a goal set of adding 200 partners by the end of the year, so a six-month period. Within three months, we got to 500. There was such, yeah, it was very successful, yeah. And so we're continuing to grow that, we have even bigger goals and targets for this year as we expand that out there. But it speaks to that need of these, of MSPs and SIs and VARs of all kinds, all shapes all around the world that are looking for solutions and specifically then knowledge of how they can take these solutions and go and differentiate in their market. So it's not just the products, but they're looking for that go-to-market help, that guidance as well. So there's opportunities for ISVs, for MSPs for the, and SIs, as well as for vendors in the ecosystem that can help partners more rapidly on board and kind of shape their offerings. So yeah, there's, I would say they're still, even with everything that happened during pandemic, there's still tremendous opportunity in those areas that you just listed off. I think we're gonna continue to see growth regardless of what happens at the market here, short term. Yeah, just on growth there, Christian, I'm just recalling some of the numbers that were quoted at Inspire. And one number was that only less than 10% of all IT spend is on cloud. So those legacy systems are costing a lot of money that the companies wanna get off. And the other one is that the cloud is growing at more than 30% here on the earth. So pretty impressive. Well, our second question we covered was getting in specifically around the program. What have been the benefits to your business from joining Microsoft's partner program? And again, these questions are meant to be broader and depending on where people are within, the journey as a partner might answer differently. But what are you hearing from customers about the value that they're saying? Yeah, you know, there are traditionally three areas where partners have really benefit from the partner program. And number one is having achieved a certain level, they're able to smaller partners in particular are able to leverage the Microsoft brand. And also to be able to say, yes, we've met Microsoft's highest requirements, whether it's silver, gold or certified for Microsoft Dynamics or something like that. And that has always been well used to establish credibility with customers even if the customer doesn't ask for that. The second, that Microsoft has a very rich portfolio of programs and resources that they make available to partners, the worldwide GTM team and their equivalents in the countries now have really put together catalogs of services and some of those services are gifts in return for Azure consumption. Others are just agencies available to do work for partners. So, simply the programs and benefits are an asset. And the last one is of course the technical expertise that is offered through the various courses that enable partners to really be able to deal with more complex solutions across such a variety of areas. So, this is the three that I see. And I would add a fourth on there. I know it's sort of outside of the program, but being partners is what enables community like an organization like IMCP to also provide added value on top of that. I mean, that's the core. We might be multi-cloud vendors. We work in multiple technologies, not just Microsoft ecosystem, yet we're all Microsoft partners that are looking for opportunities. How can we work more together? How can, I might not have an idea. Here's what I do. What do you do? How can we help each other? That's a lot of what happens through the community aspect of being a partner within the ecosystem. Absolutely. And just specifically on the IMCP, there is the P2P initiative. What we've done across the organization is firstly, enabled members to connect, not just at the chapter level, but at region levels across Canada, US and Latham and also worldwide. And then on a monthly or actually quarterly basis, twice a quarter or two months a quarter, there is a regional P2P networking opportunity aligned by solutions, by industries and by partner types. So it's not like a big party. It's really focused around partners, business areas. And half of it is about opportunities and half of each session is three or four partners or members getting together and talking about how they can collaborate on solutions. And then once a quarter, the IMCP brings the entire community together in those breakout sessions to leverage the power of being a global organization. Well, if it sounds like Paul and I are pitch men for IMCP, it's because we're pitch men for IMCP. If you've not taken a look at it, and then we'll go to the next question, go take a look at iamcp.org, check it out. And there are chapters in major areas. There's a huge virtual chapter as well. If you're in a region that doesn't have a local chapter, there are plenty of options that are out there. So the third question is around Inspire, which was last week, that is Microsoft's Global Partner Conference. There were a ton of announcements, a lot more product announcements that I thought would happen for this event, which is usually focused on the channel activities and partners. So what are your biggest takeaways from last week's Microsoft Inspire event? Yeah, you know, several, several. First of all, it was a digital event, and so it was convenient, but it wasn't the same impact as getting together. And for my business and also partners, I work with a huge part of attending the Partner Conference of Inspire has been making connections and meeting people. So that's obviously missing. And I hope that that's addressed in future based on what the situation with COVID is. In terms of content, there are a few messages. Firstly, that I would say overall, this was an iteration of past investments and programs and focus areas as opposed to being something that was new and visionary and was changing everything. And so, but I'm not saying that's bad because this is the right things to do for this time. And having those investments and enhancements is a good thing. It's just that it's not changing the world. Right. There's always been that kind of complaint to Microsoft. It's like, fix the stuff that's out before you start adding new things onto it, which is more of a problem. And there's pros and cons to the speed at which new features and products come out. But that's also been attributed to kind of the partner community and partner aspects. Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of people will be glad that there is a continuation and execution as opposed to change of people and change of priority. So because it takes time to make investments. I think the good part was, so the general focus was the digital imperative, digital transformation. And I mentioned some of the numbers of how many, how big the opportunity is globally for digital transformation. But then there was a drill down, particularly in Satya's session, and I would highly recommend that one, about opportunities in specific areas. So business solutions, and so Microsoft, I'm sorry, I should say industry solutions, Microsoft's investment in building a solution by industry and solution clouds come with that. Then there was additional focus around security and governance and sovereignty for security. Clearly that's a hot area. Hybrid work, one of the statistics shared was that 73% of employees want to work remotely, at least have the option to. And then there was a greatly focused around AI and data and creating new applications, smarter applications. And then for Azure, there was the claim, if you like, that it is unique in delivering the multi-cloud experience environment with Oracle and others. And it was impressive to see Larry Ellison and Satya Nadella on the same split screen saying supporting each other after many decades of hard competition. It was great to hear about new programs. Couple of examples was enhancing the ISV Connect program as well as the new ISV Success program which is just limited admission right now is going to be evolved, but it's great to see Microsoft focusing on filling white spaces with more solutions and supporting ISV. Again, that's an area that I know that they've been feeling the heat of ISVs. You know, so much of Microsoft's messaging and efforts that a lot of the programs have been around service-based organizations. And it's like, yes, but the ecosystem is as large as it is for a good portion of that because of partner solutions. And that's been something that's been very unique about Microsoft technology and part of why they've been so successful in the enterprise has been because of these, you know, extending the, you know, these partner solutions and providing these opportunities. So I'm also, I'm excited to see more about the ISV Success program as well. Yeah, definitely. And I think Microsoft's vision of being this one-stop shop for all solutions across all major industries and verticals and so that companies, small, medium, and large come to Microsoft is a good one. The last one I would say was that there were a lot of product announcements and you'd have to really get into the individual sessions of Microsoft around the various Viva iterations, Dynamic Contact Center, completely new application, and then addition of modules for Dynamics 365 and a lot of the Power Platform and others. And I would just encourage anyone to go and look through the sessions for Inspire 2020 and they're recorded and available. Yep, that's, I'll be next few weeks, we'll be coming through those sessions that are all waiting in my backpack, my virtual backpack there within the Inspire site. So the fourth question was getting specifically into the program changes. So how does or will the overhaul of Microsoft's partner program now called the Microsoft Cloud Partner Program impact your business or impact your customers' businesses? You know, Christian, there are different perspectives on this depending on the kind of partner, the size of the organization and the focus areas. So the first is that it's harder to get the accreditation that they had in the past and therefore it requires a gradient investment. But also because it's harder, it's a sort of differentiation. So perhaps those accreditation are going to be much more meaningful and worth more. The other one is that the slant seems to be more towards larger organizations that can invest more people and generate more revenue. So the question then arises, okay, is the investment worth it? And then the other question is, do customers care? And so it's just open question because you know, some people say that they've never been asked by a customer what are your competencies? Credentials, right, your competencies, yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's the partners that actually promote them to establish credibility versus the customers asking for them. I am hearing from a lot of independence and small companies that are going to be directly impacted by that. They're like, we're not going to fit into the new solution partners with the specialties. We don't have the dollars, we're not the size to go and do that. Especially a lot of trainers, people that they're tightening as well around like the MCTs, the Microsoft certified trainers, making that more difficult. So they're scaling that up, which is fine for the larger organizations. It's not great for the independence that then don't have those, that might be a big part of their marketing is the fact that they are an MCT or that they are small, but they're a silver provider of this competency. So it'll be, I think like anything, we see a change like this. I think if, once we go through the adjustment period, they're going to get a lot of feedback. Microsoft will get a lot of feedback about that impact to the small players. And I think something will change, something will adjust around that. It's the pendulum in some ways. And until that feedback is in, we can't just complain about this stuff. If it's impacting our business, we have to let Microsoft know so that they can make the necessary adjustments. They've shown that they will pause something or go back to the old model in certain areas if it's impacting in a way that they didn't foresee. So they're listening. And it does help to be part of a community which amplifies your voice because Microsoft solicits opinions. And as you say, they do listen. So, and I completely agree with you that this will be an evolution. This is not a completed, sealed in concrete kind of program, it'll evolve. And there's also, there are questions about how does it need to be adapted to ISVs versus partners? Right, yeah. Well, the next question kind of goes into some of that. It says, how will the streamlining of competencies replacing gold and silver status with solution partners and six solutionaries impact your business? And we've kind of addressed that. And it's, I mean, on the positive side of this, it is making, having those competencies because there are fewer people that are qualifying, it's making it more meaningful. Then it goes back into the question of, does it really matter to customers? Microsoft, working with Microsoft, it may be more important to them so they can truly identify. And for folks that aren't aware too, it's not just that they're taking like two dozen different competencies and streamlining it down in. There also now is part of it they're really focusing on the business drivers, being able to show and prove that you have net new customers, certain revenue goals and targets are being hit in those areas. So there's having the technical personnel that are trained in the right areas and that you're actually doing business in that area, that gets you to that new, let's call it gold status, that new status of a solution provider versus just, hey, we've got the technical personnel, we'll show a couple of customer references, but are we showing the same customer reference each year? I mean, there were ways kind of around it. It was softer, squishier in the old model and they're tightening that up. So I get it from Microsoft's perspective, it's just, I think by the end of this calendar year we'll start to be, we'll be hearing the impacts from customers if there are impacts. Yeah, absolutely agree with you. And also I think there's an illness on Microsoft to make these new accreditations worth the investment that's required and to promote them. And for Microsoft to say to customers, these partners are outstanding for these reasons and it's not just because they got trained or they won a couple of customers. And so Microsoft has to define the value proposition to customers so that partners can essentially monetize their investments. I just, I think to what we've said earlier, they, I think that makes perfect sense for service-based partners, larger service-based partners. There need to be nuances, there need to be differences for ISVs. We'll see what that is. And there needs to be something to ramp up independence and small players. We can't just cut them loose. So there has to be a place for them. And I think that's gonna be a matter of discussion this new fiscal year, yeah. Yeah, and you know what, I'm here in Seattle and there are other technology companies where partners wanna partner with and the competition is fierce. So you can't just exclude the innovators and the startups. Exactly. Well, the sixth question goes into, specifically like the relationship with Microsoft, how is your communication and collaboration with Microsoft and in what ways can it be improved? Like what do you hear from customers and the frustrations or successes with collaborating with Microsoft? You know, it's mainly from partners and as opposed to end-user customers that I can comment on. And I would say that there is a trend, a continued trend to have digital engagement and programmatic engagement at scale. And that scale seems to be expanding. So it's fewer and fewer partners that get managed and come under these, you know, the COSEL readiness program or some of the programs. And that kind of, the feedback is that that kind of creates distance and it's hard to get to the people unless you're a very substantial organization. And so again, it's helpful to be part of a community whether it's WIT or any other IMCP whether your voice can be amplified and you can get to the leaders of various organizations and have a conversation with them. But I think the trend to scale managed which is really unmanaged is continuing and it will continue because the company feels, that's all that's needed. Yeah, there's, I know it's like, so we're as a managed partner, you know, we've seen our PDM take on more customers. That's been part of that scaling up. So it's, and that's happening at partners, managed partners at every level. But it's a, I mean, one thing, Microsoft is getting better at providing digital resources. Partner Center is improving as a platform. They're consolidated. There's still a lot of missing pieces but they're consolidating those pieces, making it better, more useful and more accurate which is always a positive thing. But we're finding that with our interactions we just have to stay on top of the context we have to make sure that agreements and timelines are being met as discussed and as frequently as possible. For organizations that are smaller and feel like they don't have a voice, I mean, again, as the pitch men, I mean, that's a great way to go and join organizations like IAMCP, like WIT. From a product standpoint, if you have specific feedback in an area, I mean, the product teams are probably listening more than any other aspect of the business, of Microsoft business. So if you have feedback on SharePoint or Teams or Power Platform, there are people who's part of their measurable commitments to be plugged into the community and listening to that feedback and responding back to them. So if you have questions, if you have issues, there are certainly channels through which you need to go. Open a ticket, not just a support ticket, but to go in with ideas or like, hey, here's something that could really help my business, you know, that you need to go and get plugged into a number of different places so that your voice is heard. Yeah, and it's also in addition to products, it's solutions and industries and there are industry managers there who, if you have something that's very relevant to their focus area, then they will certainly listen. The only challenge there is maybe identifying who they are. And just from my own experience, I've seen two things that really make Microsoft management or program managers listen or perk up. And one is that your idea needs to drive revenue, Azure consumption typically, or but consumption or maybe the Dynamics platform. And the other one is competitive advantage. If, yeah, if Microsoft, if your solution, whatever it may be, or service drives that creates competitive advantage for Microsoft against its competitors in whatever target, then Microsoft will listen there as well. And maybe I would add a third one. If Microsoft perceives a white space in an industry segment or solution type and you're able to fill it, particularly if you're an ISV, then also get an ear there to get engaged. And then the final question, Paul, what are your recommendations or best practices for new partners who are joining the Microsoft ecosystem? Yeah, you know, the first is learn about what programs are available and plug into those programs like ISV Connect as an example. Look at what the GTM team is providing their really valuable assets and how do you qualify to get those benefits from the GTM team? Become co-self-ready, don't expect a vast flood of leads or invitations, but it's a way to get on the map and be able to talk to Microsoft field people. But I hate to sound like a broken record, but I have to say the IAMCP is a terrific way of you to get involved because you have partners that are just like you at various experience levels, some of you, some have been in the business for two decades. And first of all, they're keen to share, willing to share insights and knowledge. There are vehicles for sharing opportunities and for partnering and learning about best practices. And it's a very giving community. I don't get paid by IAMCP and say all these things, we're all volunteers. Yeah, we're all volunteers. Yeah, I genuinely feel that if you're a new partner, the IAMCP would be a tremendous help for your business in getting started. One other place I would recommend to go and take a look is the Microsoft for Startups site and some of the resources there. Like I'm part of a mentoring program where they've reached out to Microsoft Regional Directors and most people don't know what the Microsoft RD program is. It's a little bit different than the MVP program, but there's also MVPs they can reach out to. But the RDs, all of us are currently or have been business owners, CEOs, and experts in that. And we, I've done this half a dozen times where I have advised startups that spent time with me and talked about go-to-market guidance and how they can get started, how they can get plugged in. I'm pretty sure that I pushed every single one of them to IAMCP, but so there are resources that are out there. And of course, hey, if you're watching this video, you've got Paul, you've got myself, our contact information is here in the YouTube and on the blog, and so definitely reach out to us as well. So Paul, I really appreciate your time. Thanks. I know it's been a while since we've met in person. So it's, yeah, that pandemic has kept me from traveling back to Seattle and hanging out with people, but I hope to get out your way soon. Christian, it's been a pleasure. And also just wanted to say that, you know, what you restarted with Jeff Shui in Seattle is continuing and growing. So thanks for all your investment at that time. And thanks for this opportunity as well. Great to have you. And thanks everybody for watching.