 Hello, how's everyone doing tonight? What up? How's your Friday night so far? That's all right Was there a wide variety of color schemes to pick from from your ear muffs? No, no It's not no it was just a periwinkle and yellow was your only option. This is it That was it. This is what we get. I mean when I guess it's extra extra small. They have limited colors I know we need to get you one so that when you do your audio won't bleed in and it'll be easier to yeah You know when they say one-sized fits most. Yes, they throw in that disclaimer for my head. Yeah, yeah I bet they do they do you can watch like a ball cap just like creep up Let me see if I get Some lighting going on on this piece. Oh, that's a little better. Maybe yeah, there you go. There we go I can see your your shiny glow from being pregnant. I can see indeed. Yeah, all the estrogen. I'm taking Yeah, that yeah that helps. Yeah, it does. It helps the transition All right, so tonight We were gonna get started talking about Provenance and its place in cannabis in the history why it's important now It and even more so now than ever so if you want to get started I I don't know if you remember where we kind of talked about starting off, but kick it off Yeah, so I mean there's kind of like probably what we'll end up doing is is talking some like historical examples of it From the beginning to like now because there's a lot of it. That's relevant right now actually Yeah, and then just kind of like what we meet need as far as ethics and stuff like that Yeah, so the to paycheck, you know Both the hair and the beard are completely unchanged from last week I did zero time in the chair before I started so no one can see me get progressively shaggier More aged as time goes on You know so there you go that there we go you know so You know there's an aspect now where like I guess it's it's sort of like why do you care? Yeah, I get that a lot. I get that a lot. Why do you care? People care for different reasons, right? You know the smallest minority of us which I'd say Matt and myself and CSI and some others are in is The one that care because it's the truth and Because we're like weed history nerds and we want to actually know the story of how it came to be. Yeah Right But there's a lot of people that only care Relative to how it helps them Yes, right and in some cases, you know You know when you interview some of the original people that have like the stuff you're so desperately after They have that view too Yeah, they they know it but they kind of only care about it in a way that it helps them Or how can it help me now? Yeah, right and so a lot of times what happens is like, you know You start to talk to some of these people and like memories are kind of hazy and Then as they get an idea about what could happen with it. Well, then they get more specific Yeah, you know and Most of it is oral and most and some of it is argue a lot of it is argued over So it becomes really hard because it's there's not a lot of proof. Yeah, right? So We've chatted about this on previous casts, but you know when we were talking about like the Ron parties and stuff like that Twenty years ago where I met Caleb and Fletch and a bunch of different people. Yeah, I was hunting for old things then Yeah, and it was hard In the last five or six years all of a sudden there's been a huge push towards like well What was those 80s and 90s genetics like? Yeah, and all of a sudden they're everywhere Right all of them. They're absolutely everywhere right so you have this situation where You know, it doesn't take much all it takes is one scammer to have you know 74 Colombian or whatever Yeah, and it's not actually that and it gets passed through some good hands and it's almost like Bitcoin washing or something It gets like it gets its reputation gets verified through others Yes, and so there's a lot of aspects of that of how that works You know, so it's kind of a conversation that like could go Any number of different ways? Yeah, but maybe I'll start in the beginning Which is I remember reading Stuff that Sam Skunkman wrote About how pissed off him and Rob Clark were in the early 80s that like 5% of growers gave a shit about genetics Yeah, 5% would be massive now You know that's it and so there's an aspect where it's like same as it ever was yeah, right? Like that's what we're about to chat about and they were bitching about it in 1982. Yeah Because and I don't even think that's wrong necessarily There's a lot of people like I live in Mendocino County, obviously So it's kind of weed land and it's been going through some seismic shocks lately Right as far as all that goes and you really start to see the people that Are in it for it and We're in it for spending cash or we're in it for ease or whatever You know like a lot of people were into weed because weed I mean Matt's seen this with the seed game Yeah, from when he started to now Right how many big influx and then a big outflux and right now I mean people dropping like flies out of the scene you know people that we thought would probably be around, you know No matter what I was kind of shocked, you know, it happens though Well, I mean some of it is some of it is breeding as a pain in the ass, too You know and so it's like it's like maybe a band maybe it has a One to five year life for most of them. Yeah You know, it's really hard to make a 20 or 30 year career out of breeding Yeah, and not being able to go anywhere not being able to take vacations All that comes if you take breeding very seriously and collecting very seriously provenance all that that you can say goodbye to all that It's like for if you if you compare it to music Having a being a one-hit wonder means you're more successful than most musicians Yeah, because you still had the market and then Because you had the one hit and then if you have like a period of dominance for like five years or something That's pretty incredible. Yeah, and the number of bands that stay relevant over 15 or 20 years even Yeah, there's a tiny fraction of everyone famous. Yeah, you know, so imagine You have some huge hits for breeding and then five or ten years later. What are you doing? And then five years later. What are you doing? Can you keep making hits? Can you keep yourself relevant? It goes into it You know what I've seen very few Seed makers be able to keep themselves relevant unless they had like a big marketing budget You know in high times ads other than that. It's it's always an up-and-down battle for most people and So, you know, there's a there's an aspect to where I don't even know how to put it like that, but That's what happens when I read comments. Yeah, I can get totally thrown off track. Yeah, but You know, there's there's a thing now like if we if we go from from what Sam said to now Now all of a sudden it's important to have old cuts because people are trying to differentiate themselves on the legal market There's a ton of new smokers who are interested in these legendary things. Yeah, right? And therefore there's money to be made and a rep to be had By having them. Yeah, and you know one of the things Matt will tell you this too One of the main ways to be a breeder is let's say you end up being a guy that's associated to a super famous cut Even if you weren't the breeder, but you were just somebody that got it early Most of those people have seed companies. Yeah, and they do they have a famous name So they do breeding around what got them there. Yeah in the hopes that like People that are interested in that would want to get it from some og tied into the Chem or the sour the cookie. What you know, whatever whatever it might be. Let's get older. Yeah, whatever it might be Yeah, whatever whatever whatever Matt's background. He has decided he is going to out outpace me weekly. I Have no figurine competition. I can't even come close, you know He does have he does have figurines, but they all have big dicks So you can't put them up and they're all sent to me from Matt. Yeah You know, I don't know if you've ever been on the riot Christmas list, but that's really all it is It's like ballast art. It's a lot of selection and I have doubles of a lot. Don't get on it You know that's you want to you want to avoid getting on it. Yeah, I'm not even I'm not even dissing people, but it's like By any means, but yeah, oh, yeah, like, you know, NorCal I see mag around around Ogkb, you know, or cornbread Ricky, you know around tk or Anyone anyone you get famous by it like a lot of people do breeding sort of based around their famous cuts Right yeah So then there's an aspect where it's like one of the best ways to become a breeder where people buy your seeds is Like claiming that you're associated with shit. Yes. Yeah the big claim the big claim and a lot of these claims Like it doesn't even matter if they get refuted later on as long as they help you with your rise on the way up and build your fan base Yeah, whether it's ancient skunks or this or that or whatever else. It's like just to get yourself known and on the map Yeah, you know and you know, so we did what weed was never ready for modern marketing techniques So, you know, we have this running joke in our crew called the pre-pre Yeah, right. Yeah, which is all these strains that people have that exist before the strain existed Yeah, and you see this like we'll talk we'll make jokes like oh We mentioned a strain that probably hasn't been brought up in 10 to 20 years publicly and then we like fuck shit in two weeks We're gonna see it and then sure enough two weeks later someone's like yeah, I got that cut and it's right here, you know Yeah, the pre-pre it encompasses a lot the pre-pre and like, you know, there's we're not I'm not gonna be big on like Like names or anything like that on this particular episode It's more gonna be like actions and themes because that's easier. Yeah, but there's parts where it's like, okay Like somebody's got oh, I've got this thing. I've got 93 cents a star. Yeah, but it got released in 95 Yeah, you know or I've got 95 black Domina, but Domina didn't get released until the cup in 96, which is in November So there's all these things where it's like there's these cuts and they're like They're like the earliest it could possibly be and then a year or two earlier Sometimes decades earlier. Yeah, there's a there's a 79 blueberry floating around. Yeah. Yeah You know when you know DJ says that he got his Afghan to start the project I think in 79 Yeah, and then blueberry isn't blueberry like an f4 f5 f4. Yeah f4 Yeah, right so then he did he did multiple generations and testing and all that different stuff But there's someone that has it that's his From like before he you know that the year that he started The one I see the most is super skunk that has like the most years around it because nobody cares to look up when it Popped up. Yeah, someone just said there's an there's an 89 super skunk. Yeah, exactly. It got released in the 90 catalog Yeah, you know Sour was found a lot of people think sour was found in 95. It wasn't it was found in 96 The diesel one and two was found in 95 But a lot of people sour it goes right back to summer in 95. Yeah There's a cut before that pre-cut there's because most people really when it boils down to it It's like it's almost like testing like has what what's happened with THC testing where it's like the The the lab knows that both the dispensary and the grower want a high test because that way everybody makes more money Yeah, so the market knows that these earlier dates do well and Thus these earlier dates appear and so we I've had this running joke that like with the magic of a Sharpie and a label Ancient gems are unearthed all the time. Yeah. Yeah, and I want them to true and every once in a while a few of them are true Yeah, but it's like it gets it gets earlier and earlier and earlier and then you try to refute it And it's like whack-a-mole. Yeah, you know and then and you know and it's like so provenance Provenance with seeds is really hard because they're just beans and they all look fairly similar So it's like how the how would you know if it's an 85? You know the best way to identify old beans is they don't crack Yeah, they don't crack very easily. They don't are they none of them pop. Yeah, or they're not viable And you're like, oh, wow, maybe these were really old because they didn't not have worked. Yeah It's really frustrating because they're only fresh for about five to eight years. Yeah, and that's stored properly One summer in a bad closet or in a hot garage Can dramatically lower their lifespan or even kill all of them. Yeah, definitely, you know And so now we're in this situation where I Did I didn't shave this week for street cred. You can see all the gray Because all these 90 strains are coming back around now and most people didn't experience them back then Yeah, so therefore people can sell them to you and you have no personal experience So would you like my 89 super skunk? Would you like my 93 sensees are my 95 black Domina my You know my pre Sam skunk, that's another favorite one. Yeah. Yeah This is the this is the this is the Sam started in 75 This comes from before them when it was still rank or the pre pre Hayes brothers Hayes But yeah, whatever whatever it might be going back even way before I was like born Yeah, and they still have stuff and people that have been like secret and doing and doing repros and stuff like that and Every once in a while that stuff does exist. Yeah, it does happen It does happen from time to time that someone comes out with a legitimate I I have not been online and I have been holding this this exists. It does happen So it's like we don't want to rain on every parade that pops up because we could be pushing away good people Well, yeah, you don't want to be like there's this there's this there's this funny like from the will fair feral era of Saturday Night Live where like there's these two gay kids that work in this clothing store and no one's good enough to shop There so everyone that comes in they just insult them relentlessly until they leave. Yeah, you know And so, you know, you get tired because some of it is obviously impossible, right? And then they'll be like you call them out on the pre pre Yes, and they'll be like, oh, well my buddy got it directly from the breeder. Yeah It might be pre-release, but my buddy got it. Yeah, right? Or they just go along and they just change on following post They just update the year to the earliest year possible. Yeah and go along with that new thing Yeah, and those other posts get deleted and they just adapt and move forward and and when we were Talking about starting doing this podcast together one of the main things that me and not so we're talking about and we've talked about this before but Are we doing a disservice to the community by putting more info out there that is accurate to the letter when it comes to Know knowledge, you know because it's actually helping people craft their stories more craftily But luckily usually the people that do that are so lazy. They don't really they leave holes all over. So I think it's good It leads to conundrums. I mean somebody was saying about you know, various, you know, the nl5 thing I think I'm actually gonna do a Post on IG soon and like a little like mini podcast talk on it that we have planned just because most people there are some Real pictures of nl5 that Neville had but most people haven't seen them No, you know and haven't put it together and there are posts that Neville made where he talked specifically about it And certain aspects of it and stuff like that And most people haven't seen that either. Yeah, right? And so, you know, there's a part where it's like I'm such like a old weed nerd that like every old story God, I want it to be true. Yeah. Yeah, he does. He really does you want it to be true But the other part of it that's really weird and maybe we'll bring this up and it's kind of rambling but There's a lot of people on IG This is gonna be shocking that like aren't the way they act on IG in real life. Yeah, I know There's a ton of people right and so there's a whole group of people that find people on IG Like me or others and be like I want these cuts that I see this guy posting about. Yes What does he want? And then Johnny convinced you that they have it so that you can they can get what you have By trading you something you're after. Yeah, that's one thing when you're doing trades Please please be very you some critical thinking and and if if you're looking for stuff That's old or rare don't send someone a list of your want list Because if they come back and send you everything on your want list There's probably red flags to be thrown if it's all the rare and some people are really good and Generally speaking what happens is if you get bamboozled out of cuts or you get traded you trade You know old rare shit you have that's awesome for club cuts that they renamed Most people stay quiet about it because they don't want to be embarrassed that they got to advantage of or they don't want To lose the monetary value of what they just bought and want to pass on the fucking butt And sometimes they end up breeding with it for a few times before they realize what it is and then they have a bunch of seeds they made with it and so like there's a lot in weed of like You know a small percentage of people know a bunch of stuff. That's not public. Yeah, and it gets kept quiet For reasons like that. Yeah you know and You know and so and then some with those scammers do is then they use I'm gonna make a post with a big picture, but yeah That is an L5 that is that is Neville's mother that he used to make an L5 haze Nl5 skunk one all that that's the only Nl5 cut he used in breeding at Sensi and the last few years and so You know, but there's people that let's say they once they once here I'm really not gonna name names, but let's just say that you know They've managed to trade with some well-regarded people Yeah, then it makes it easier for them to trade with others because some of that guys Oh, he likes them and trades with them that guy must be cool. It also gives gives provenance Seeming provenance to the cut because now it's gone through someone reputable and what's not through someone reputable hands It adds that stain They they had they get two or three people to buy into it and now all of a sudden They got two or three well-known people that they can trace real then now they have really good cuts Mixed in with their club renames. Yeah Right because they can oh I got it from this person and that person and you know It's like and they got it from this person and those people are all well-known Yeah, and so that happens a lot like there was a thing and we don't call it that much anymore But like there used to be a thing long before you could sell clones and and not be ostracized Because 15 years ago, that's certainly what would have happened There was a thing that we used to call trade baiting Right and trade baiting was basically trading people to get a cut that you thought would unlock a bunch of other cuts for you Yeah, like the chem D or you know various different things people would would get it Promise to not give it out and then use that to get 15 or 20 different things. Yeah Right and that's a lot of how like fakes got spread because some people got cuts only with the intention of using that to unlock Other things they wanted. Yeah, and that's how a lot of stuff spreads people want stuff Yeah, that's it's that want that need that the FOMO. Yeah It's like Adam Smith like the invisible hand people have a want There's gonna be an invisible hand that brings the goods or services to them Yeah, and there's people out there that if they don't have that they'll just say they have it Yeah, because they want what's in your pocket Yeah, you know And so that's where you know, so now we have a bunch of so when when old strains were unpopular It was really really hard to find anybody that would say oh, I've got old shit Because there wasn't any money in yeah now. There's a bunch of money in it. They're everywhere. Yeah, right and so you know and and Yeah, seemingly, you know and then stuff gets a wash and you've got oh I've got 89 this and and I've got this and I've got that and I've got you know and and it gets wandered through a few respectable people and Then some of those respectable people breed with it a couple of times and it's in their work Yeah, and that's what makes provenance so hard. Yeah is Everything comes out of the shadows. There's nothing really. It's written down. It's nothing that's easily proved It's all person-to-person honesty chain So maybe I'll use an example of something that I consider to be like really good problems. Okay, right though You know Greg pops what the dog which became called the chem 91. Okay. He gives it to my buddy Staten Island Okay, Staten gives him the skunk and comes west From that Staten gives it to skunk VA myself and another friend And we've all had it since yeah, so it's like a short chain Everybody agrees on both sides that it happened and Then you don't lose it. Yeah, that's what we would call really excellent provenance. Yeah, you know Like the people involved are believable the time frame is believable. Yeah, you know And all that and then we have stuff that's got really bad Yeah, you know like something that that Matt and I have been trying to figure out recently is Does the actual cut of kush that Matt Matt Bubba and Joe D and and Josh did that did just that still exist? Yeah You know The provenance on that one is hard because they lost it Multiple times and it got renamed in LA and There's like half a dozen different cuts that all claim to be it, right? Yeah If you have original ghosts, they claim that to be it if you have original 92 o. G They can they consider that to be a legit. Yeah, right the first SFV is supposed to be it Can you think of others? I Was just thinking of Something that makes the the chem 91 story a bit more complex because when you have a situation where someone You know has has a good reliable transaction and we have reliable provenance getting it to him and Then the next thing he passes out like for example chem D In a short period of time two people get two different cuts And no one can quite remember who got which cut first, but it's such a short period of time You can't really tell which one would be considered the original or not, you know And at that point it becomes well, it is an unreliable narrator always unreliable or Can we just get it wrong once somebody said SFV is it there's more than one SFV cut that floats around? Yeah After a seed line was released called SFV. There was no more Trying to dig up just SFV without running into a thousand of them So that's what I mean in the sense that there's some things that are fairly well agreed upon Yeah, but then there's a lot where the provenance gets lost or murky Yeah, and it's kind of and it's kind of like and then in that case it's it you know It suffers from renames the ghost of right now isn't the ghost that was getting traded 20 years ago. Yeah, it's not Yeah, you know and You know, there's you know, like the eight, you know, there's people that have the old AJ's Yeah, sour diesel and there's people that have the another AJ's sour diesel I Keep trying to figure out if stony puff and stuff and here is the stony puff and stuff from Overgrowing and cannabis world stuff. Well, I guess that's a good person for provenance for the show I guess he could clear it. I get you know, he could probably clear it up Yeah, but yeah, and so then it becomes to it becomes like Promenade that becomes like based on your trust or your knowledge So it gets to be pretty small circles that know what's very what's verified. Yeah, and I have people all the time like in legal, California, there's an aspect where You know, it's almost like all these strains are like punk rock bands that never signed with a label. Yeah, so nobody owns them So there's this like multi-billion dollar industry that's getting developed and all these sharks are looking around like nobody owns any of this shit Yeah, nobody controls the rights to these cuts. Why not? Well, that's a beauty of a black market industry a clandestine industry It's it leaves a lot of room for snakes to come in because the only reprisal is is physical There's not like legal reprisals for anything, right? But then that doesn't mean that there's not people that are gonna like trademark the name. Oh, yeah Yeah, for sure, you know and try to control it and say this cut is it because they want to make money off it and You know, there's a risk that it's like imagine somebody all tries to like imagine somebody tries to You know trademark the chem 91 and then anybody else growing it or using it has to give them kickbacks Yep You know So there's all this weird stuff where there's like there's all this compartmentalized tribal knowledge about cuts and It's not widely known a lot of it and people use that murkiness To hustle a lot of fake history. Yeah And even sometimes some of the most people that would be in the know some of the old-timers They're part of that same issue. Yeah, because they'll tell you there's plenty of old-timers that have come out of the shadows and ended up scamming people Because they have Providence their name itself who they were where they came from. Yeah, you know, there was a famous incident with You know the G 13 cut. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that was a little weird you know and The person that was offering it and selling it for a lot of money had impeccable provenance. Yeah But it was a scam If I remember it was double D's cut of G 13 that was that dr. Green thumb said he had then double D's Said don't use my fucking name. You didn't get it from me if I remember correctly Neville When we were talking said that that's not the cut but then Neville also told me to hit up Dr. Green thumb and get some of them seeds for free So who knows who knows where that story really landed. Yeah, but that's exactly kind of the thing where it is Yeah, you get claims. There's sales happening. You get arguments by various people involved who all don't agree People are tempted to buy it right because everybody knows that controversy Sell seeds. Yeah Right. So there's there's also people that I won't name that I think are kind of sociopathic in the seed game But they said something that I think was really revealing one time even though people were giving them a lot of shit about a lot of fake releases He said everything I released sells up Yes, and you could see that that was what mattered to him. Yeah Right and so a lot of these people for seed, you know for seeds. It's like that's really what matters to them They want to sell for the pack price Yeah, you know the truth is genetics from me. The truth is a cut of my Maui by Superdog And it was it was seeds I gave to Mandelbrot and he found He found it and some apparently some Rasta He was smoking with said this weed is the truth because he got super buzzed And that's the moniker that got added on to it But yeah, he's saying can it stony puff and stuff again mark Emory almost every seed maker post-nevel Either added mystery confusion Or some lies in order to sell seeds if I remember correctly stony's the PNW hash plant Okay Really? Yeah, that's why I have his name on my head right now because of that. Yeah Perhaps so I mean and there's you know and and basically now we're in this point Where you know the history might become valuable because almost every eight eighties and nineties famous line is Starting to have its day in the sun again getting offered his seeds and people claiming to have the real deal Holyfield. Yeah There's one thing I'd like to cover And that is how how how groups and clone groups were formed because we did kind of touch on you know Going to the parties back in the day But I've noticed that that that's one of the questions I get from some of the youngsters in our readers syndicate discord chat is Like how do I even get to these groups with these cuts? Like how does that even work? It's a foreign concept to them and it's just like you just make friends with people and you talk you shoot the shit A lot of times you're not even talking about weed when you shoot the shit with someone You're just talking about what you have in common and over time people decide, okay You know this person's full of shit or they're not and we share because we're friends and that's that's kind of how it goes And it's a slow process. Sometimes you don't ever share anything, you know in a group Sometimes you share everything you have and you know, that's how it goes, but that's how the groups used to work It's a lot different than than just going and buying the cuts today I would say that like if people the grail of to me of of that kind of situation When you actually like go Jedi master or whatever and you get beyond most trading and people just want to give you things Yeah, is that you just have to be honest about what you're after and what your intent intentions are The whole time Yeah, and then if you're honest and people like you and you're not pulling anything on them because you're honest Like you you know you get you get into more and more different groups because there's only so many collectors Yeah, it's a small community. That's always been the case. Yeah, everyone wants what's hot and what sells for a high dollar But actual collectors that are holding on to things for like how they breed or they love the weed or whatever else That's pretty rare And when when people pass me these lists that people send them like clone lists and say hey Do you think this person would have this or that the first thing I think is who is this person connected to? Who does this person know that I know that's in these groups because you know? Usually if they're showing off like a really rare clone, it's like okay Who's he connected to who would you have had access to to get this cut? Is that very likely how rare is the cut? Who do we know that's currently holding it? this is all involved in provenance and looking through it and trying to figure it out and Yeah, a lot of times it doesn't add up anymore And you have as you can have a situation where? You know a lot of us know each other and so what Matt was just talking about it might involve a few phone calls and You know and like cross-referencing and checking. Yeah, you know And all that and so you know and because there's a thing to where like up here You know And there was like there's you know, we'll get to it in a bit There was like a nugget that created this show essentially or the idea for the show But it is it's really hard to get people That's what makes that's what makes me laugh so much is that it's so hard to get anyone to hold on to old things That whenever you just see a tsunami of old things. You're like well shit Yeah, you know yeah, you know I wish there was no and the thing is is that so Everybody asked me about my like my collection and all this different stuff. So You know my collection is basically like I'd like to say that it had some like master plan or I knew eventually one day You know, I mean I like to breathe and stuff. So like holding on to plants. I think are cool. I do that sometimes but mostly It's um, you know, it's it's stuff. I personally like to smoke. Yeah, and I didn't care if If it was valuable To others it was valuable to me Right And for the most part most people just want what's easy to sell right now. Yeah, and they'll dump Whatever they were selling before that isn't as easy as the new thing. Yeah, very quickly very quickly, you know and And so, you know, did I think one day holding on to all this stuff? Like I don't have You know a bunch of my old cuts because I had some master plan Yeah, I had old cuts because I liked growing them in the greenhouse or whatever and having some head stash along with whatever else I was doing And I liked making hybrids with them because they're my and then maybe I get better wheat. Yeah You know, but that's not most people Honestly, they hold on to cuts because the value that they put on the cut is monetary Yeah, whether by breeding with it selling clones of it or selling flour You know, and I saw someone just made a comment that you know, like well provenance of shit It's it's in the flower make a produced flower and that's cool Except for the fact that a lot of the times that the cuts people are hunting They've never had any experience with the flower before in the first place So how are they ever going to then smoke the flower and be like yep This is the one you have to have experience with it with it in the first place to be able to do that So while I agree with that if you don't have the experience with it in the first place It doesn't really do anything better than Trying to establish that oral history, you know, luckily Luckily, we're not so far forward that a lot of these people are totally gone A lot of people are still around that we can you know trace hand to hand to hand to hand back And then there's a there's an aspect where it's like how old is your memory? Yeah, just because you had a cut for X or I had a cut for X amount of years And then you go 10 or 15 or 18 years without seeing it Are you just because you had it are you certain to be able to 100% identify it again? This is the problem we have with Trinity and it's and it's the reason that nobody's like me CSI No one's willing to say yes This is the fucking one, you know as much as I would like to as much as it would probably sell seeds better If I were it's just like it just The memory isn't there anymore half the half my crew thinks it is half my crew thinks it isn't yeah you know and Someone just said trades used to happen off samples, you know how hard it is for me to get To get samples from people of strains that they have a flower that they grew Yeah, because a lot of people get clones just to flip them for other clones Yeah, or to build their stable or to this or that or whatever, you know, so it's there's an aspect where You know it I don't know Memory gets tough. Yeah does You know it really does And psychosomatic stuff it is always a factor to and bias and wanting to have it there again like finding that old You know forgotten clone. That's got to be it. You're already wanting it to get so it can be it, you know So that's somebody just said one thing I will agree with is that the Trinity cut that we have and is floating around is Is really good wheat? Yeah, so regardless of the truth of it or not. It's enjoyable It's very enjoyable smoke It's also similar It's also similar a little bit to the train wreck Trinity that that I grew from Jill It has a lot of similar traits to that and I think that was an older cut Using the old Trinity, but I'm not a hundred on that. Yeah, and I mean there's there's a thing too now where it's like you You know, there's certain cuts that I've had for long enough like You know if I was to lose the chem dog or something like I would be able to recognize if it was really Yeah, because I've been growing it since the late 90s and I've grown it a lot and it's super unique looking and smell I just I just have such a relationship like the smell of it You know and like the look of it and the way it makes me feel, you know It's like that's not something that I had like a short-term relationship with that's like something you were like Like you were married to your wife for 20 years like you could you can you can hear voice Yeah, you know, it's you know, it's just that's kind of some things are like that but you know, it's hard because most people in weed and there's nothing wrong with this are younger and They want access to their history and all these famous old cuts and They're willing to give up money or see, you know or other clones or this or that or whatever else And so there's a there's a group of people that are ethical about that and there's a group of people that aren't yeah And there's somebody that's asking me all we need s ones of that LA Kush, bro And so I don't know if like this is kind of like we're almost an hour in so maybe we'll chat about it, but yeah, right Matt Matt spoke about like we joke about how You know, we'll talk about something not that we're super important But like you start talking about something and you and you get you get people also talking about it, right? And then all of a sudden you see it pop up Yeah so Matt Matt and I myself we were discussing it this week and it's I think in the last eight months ten months There's been three different breeders That have put out seeds that have mother not so's LA Kush label. Yeah, not so's headband Yeah, right where in the previous 15 years that label didn't exist not once not one time anywhere ever Yeah, right. No, no, you know No, whatsoever and then all of a sudden I start talking about it and not only does the name it's it pop up But my name gets associated with it The only time your name got associated with it originally was when in our group because there were two different headbands We like the one that we had and the one that you had and we had to identify it So we would have like referred to it as that, you know But it was never a popular name before we would talk about it And that's a lot of how some of these internet names like none of us ever use the term I use the term chem 91 often now because it's a good communication tool. Yeah, but none of us ever called it that Yeah, that's an internet term Just like the skunk VA cut. Yeah, that's an internet term You know It was never said, you know And so, you know, I get that people might want to like attach names to cuts because it helps differentiate Yeah, that's just a good question. Sure. And you know, for me, I was anti it happened anyway Some people Some people attach their name to cuts intentionally. Yeah when they know they had nothing to do with it You know, like I don't know loop a headband something like that. Yeah. Yeah, so when he got the cut from someone else And he decided I'm going to say it's the best weed in the world And it's my week. Yeah You know and You know and You know, and then there's so there's this aspect where it's like it puts me specifically in this weird conundrum Right where There's a small group of people out there That think that I'm chatting with all you guys every week that Matt and I in order to do some like long running scam Yeah, because most people can't most people don't actually like What's the best way to put it most people don't think how you think Yeah, most people think that what would I do in his shoes? Yeah Right and since most breeding is about money and it's not about love a cannabis or anything like that Like they feel like there has to be something for it, right? Yeah, so I chat about stuff Matt and I chat about stuff we generate some interest which is very kind of y'all to have interest in So there's interest in these seeds and these cuts and this this and this that But I don't sell that stuff So there's a small group that thinks oh, this is what's coming. Yeah, but since I'm not doing it There's another group that's just adding my name to shit And you can buy my clones That my name on it Or my hybrids with mine with my strains That from people I've never met Or you know and and I can I can verify he's not coming He wasn't even breathing hard before he said that Uh You know so um, so then what do you do? So it's like so if I offer it then like it I wasn't about the history I was just trying to pump y'all up into some bullshit to sell it to you Yeah, but then if I don't offer it other people are going to offer it to feed the desire And so we've gone nobody's used the word not so his headband in 15 years And then we have three different people using it to breed with in the last eight months And clones of it for sale Right and these people have never reached out to me or talked to me or this or that or give me given me flower Or like you've done any kind of like basic investigation to make sure that like they think they have the same thing No, no not whatsoever. That's a lot of work. That's a lot of work You know, so it's just like all of a sudden somebody sends me something and goes. Hey, dude Did you give your buddy, uh, did you give your buddies, uh the the cut so we can make beans And I have no idea and then if you get mad about it They just like it because then it's just more controversy and people some people will think oh, you must have it Yeah, he's mad because he must have it must be true And you know, there's not even a thing where I'm like, oh, you can't call something headband unless I approve Yeah, but how if you've never met me or smoked my flower, how the fuck do you know? It's it it's gotta be the same one that I have Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense at all You know and so there was a there was a cut this week that got some controversy that matt brought to that like It turns out it started its life as j plant speaker sour that was bought from a club And then j got mad and it got renamed the real sour Maybe now it's me and now it's not so as headband That may be the story, but that wasn't the first story. Who knows But it just is one of those it's one and then you know, and then there's arguments and anger back and forth And I don't even want to say names because it's not it that's that that point's not important You know, but it's just one of those things where it's like I have people all the time on this show DM me Can we get cuts? Can we get seeds? Can we this? Can we that? Right and so I've never really done that to the public. I've done it mostly in private to friends Um, but then if I don't do it public There's going to be scammers that see there's an opportunity and just do it And some people are going to get scammed public catch 22 You know, so what do you do? You know, and then there's a funny thing too, right where it's like I see this with headband and sour all the time and I'll keep talking about it because it's it's relevant Obviously diesels and headbands and sours are sort of kind of having their time in the sun again They had a brief five or six year period of not popularity as purples and various things swept the land again but now they're coming back and Everyone wants to have the oldest realest best Cut of either Yeah, so they can sell flour or seeds at high prices to people that want to experience the real deal Or clones or clones or sell clones for three five three hundred five hundred eight hundred thousand bucks whatever it might be All right, so I don't know that I have I don't know that I I've had I got the sour 22 years ago I got the headband a year after that so 21 so oh 2000 2001 right in there, right? Yeah, I don't know their provenance before they came to me They came to me with a label Do I know for sure that my cut is the original diesel to cut that I don't I just know that I've had it since this year and never lost it Yeah, do I know what sour is the right sour? And the real sour and the one that manny found in the bag of weed. I don't know that either But I've had it since 2000 and I haven't lost it and most people That are selling these ancient cuts now Got these diesel cuts within the last few years Yeah, and so they're either history of it doesn't even go back very far So what you're saying is your cut must be the albany sour Well, that's the funny part is that five years ago because there's a story too that Matt and Pip and a bunch of friends kept asking me. Well, which cut is it? Right and I got it a long time ago and it came helpfully labeled sourd And so I thought I had sourd and so I never traded anyone ever for sourd Why would I I had the cut and I never lost it and I liked it So then Matt and Pip and other friends start telling me well, there's res cut and there's shroomy and there's amish And there's ecsd and there's choco and there's new york city And so I start collecting all these things And growing all of them and it ends up none of them are my headband and none of them are my sourd And now when I collected all those there wasn't anything called the the cat skills cut The the albany cut there's like there's a bunch of amherst No amherst. No, you know, no j plant speaker of which. I know he doesn't really like his name being attached to it There there's about half a dozen new sour names that have just come up in the last three or four years Right and everyone ties back to the mid 90s guaranteed And most of these people if you ask them how long they've personally held the cut It's a it's it's a you could count the number of years on one hand. Yeah You know and so I don't know that my shits the real deal I know that I like it a bunch and I know that I've had it a long time But it doesn't seem like the chain goes all the way back to when it started where you can guaranteed where like people have it So everyone just claims they have it. Yeah And none of these people want to send it to the original sour people for confirmation No, they just don't have a clue who they could send it to that's in the sour through as people still think that Whoever goes on the podcast and claims that they have yells the loudest that they're the sour guy is is who it is And res got his sour cut supposedly in 07 You know 06 something like that and then you release the line called sour diesel Yeah IPL which made it even more and then you know people would get bag seeds and call their bag seed sour diesel. Yeah Right and so there's a bunch of people right now selling cuts for hundreds of dollars that they're very very very sure That it's the oldest and the best and the realest deal And selling you expensive flour to try real sour diesel Yeah And because there's a bunch of desire for it. There's not a bunch of uh ethics around it And you can whine and bitch and moan and and ask questions and then they just get pissed off And their buddy and their buddy and their buddy and they find out the names of who it came from originally and then that's who just had it So there's there's another aspect that that I had written down here And this is one like this is this is the conversation that I have with a lot of people that sell seeds behind the scenes And and one of the ones that's repeating that we we always come back to is How do you compete in a market of dishonesty where the loudest? The cheapest or the most expensive it is what usually Sells it's not necessarily who can prove that they sourced it correctly It has nothing to do with what sells in all honesty Very very few people care about that. So in a market where the name is what selling along with the trademark and brand How do you compete? If you try to do it the right way when it takes months It takes years to sort something correctly at some times and then looking through the line then testing the line How do you compete in a market like that? Yeah, that's tough Yeah, none of us have ever figured it out I mean in the mat's in the seed market more in the flower market It's the same thing where you try to grow the I try to grow the you try to grow the best weed you can Yeah, and not everybody does that most people don't do that most people try to grow You know just barely good enough to pass Yeah, that's that's kind of the market. It's always been the market, but if you grow really good dank Um, then you're gonna battle with brokers that always tell you that they can get cheaper dank Yeah, and since their goal is margin Right, they would rather buy something worse that they get a bigger range on In terms of profitability that week than something better with a narrow range where they give a fixed price Yeah, and so they'll always they'll be like if they if they look at you and say this is the best weed I've seen in six months They're not gonna offer you more for it. Yeah You know, but they're gonna everyone tries to kick the tires and make your weed worth less So they can get bigger margin from whatever they're doing Yeah, and so that's the same it's the same thing with like with with flower even it's like you can grow real flower, but like You know and there's a bunch of people up in my neck of the woods that got used to got pissed off and just got used to growing beeweed Because that was what sold and that's what moved and it like why put in the all the extra effort Yeah, and now the market's so tanked You know, um, you know, they they haven't grown fire in a really long time They've grown decent commercial Yeah, and they used to be able to survive off decent commercial and now they can You know because it's been a long time and so the same thing with seeds It's like, you know, they you're gonna flood the market and then you have a situation where if you're ethical and you want to test Stuff before sale Someone's always going to beat you to it Always and that's why when people are saying, you know, like well just throw the fire and fire will prove It's that's not how it works. I mean greenhouse. Let's look at the the top of the industry greenhouse DNA You know, like dynafem This is the top of the industry even in the u.s. You got compound, you know burner This is the top of the industry said you really think fire is going to make it through all this when That's the the custom the markets customer driven And customer driven means that rappers probably are driving the market So at what point does fire win and I laugh when people from florida And virginia and i don't it's not it's not like i'm laughing at them But it's like when people from these various states are like, oh man, you california and you just grow the boof Yeah, and i'm like no no no no You're the brokers that that brought it to you. They bought the boof Yeah, they probably had a different choice, but they made more money off the boof and they still thought you'd buy it Yeah, so that's what they're bringing you If you insisted upon real fire and refused to buy the boof they'd have to change their game Right, but they were buying the boof for cheap and flipping it to you for a little less expensive and their margin was better Yeah So, you know boof exists for a reason In that regard Yeah, it does You know and and there's an aspect too where it was like this week, you know And once again, I won't mention names or anything but like, you know mac got upset because my name got used And you know the person's response was basically like, oh, he's just butt hurt that we beat him to making seats I could have you know, I could have been begging not so for that cut when we met and I've never asked him for it once You know, you know, and it's because they know that there's like there's a market out there for it And there's people that are excited to try it and since I'm not feeling that market They're like fuck it. I'll beat him to it. I will yeah And I'll do it better than he can Yeah, and it's marketing. They're just trying to sell something. What are you gonna do six months later a complain That the cross didn't come out the way you thought Yeah, and most people don't plop their seeds right away So even six months most people are working at two and a half three years before they get to the seeds that they purchased And the seed game much like the flower game as matt will say is In rough choppy waters right now Sales are down and expenses are high and and volume is low And so people are searching for whatever little edges they can Yeah You know And so it's a real issue where it's like people ask me so If I was to do something where I was to like offer up cuts or offer up seeds Uh and try to fill a demand that a bunch of people have I would be selling out Yeah But if I don't Other people are going to and are going to and are doing it currently Uh and it's not even real Uh and part of the reason why matt and I started this podcast was just to give certain weed heads an opportunity to hear real Yeah when there was just a sea of self-serving disinformation And infomercials and some really bad not that there's not some quality talks out there So don't everybody feel bad, but like just You know an attempt to like get get some at least some stand against the bullshit. Yeah Yeah I mean You know people already didn't like me It wasn't gonna hurt my reputation to do this shit and uh It was nice to be able to do it with someone that had a good reputation already You know what I mean and that's honest so and it's interesting in the sense that the more I talk Like it's nice that there I get people that you know, we matt and I do get quite a bit of nice messages about this thing Um, but there also is resentment and anger and hatred Yeah, because we'll do an history episode And you know all of a sudden I'll say something or matt'll say something that contradicts Some narrative that somebody else has and we don't even mention them by name But they're pissed off Because it it undermines what they're trying to do Yeah, there's a lot of things I would love to talk about and even even with my loose lips like as far as uh You know talking about what I feel feel like talking about there's a lot of things that I don't talk about So somebody just asked so who does right now if you want to if you want to get any headband crosses for me um, uh, you can't But uh, I did share the cut with uh, uh with csi And there's a really fucking good one and he released some tk and some kim d and people send me stuff all the time It looks like those are both really nice hybrids, especially the d. Um, he'll probably be releasing some more stuff in the future Uh, I'm still on the fence about myself Um, but uh, but you know, he has it directly from me And I gave it to him so he could make seeds so people could have a chance to grow some hybrids of it because he's got a big reach Yeah, you know and all that different type of stuff um, and uh You know, there's a there's a thing too where Matt and I think that probably within the next five years the seed market will probably shrink a lot And thus the breeders will probably shrink a lot Yeah, I I say in the next six six months We're gonna see a drastic decline back to where it was, you know, maybe a few years ago You already see a lot of people starting like opening up the vault Yeah, and offering a bunch of stuff from their collection that they're like, what the fuck am I going to do with this? What am I going to do with this? Maybe somebody else wants it? Maybe I can generate some money Yeah, the amount of boats rvs various things up here for sale Uh, you know the the downturn cannabis right now has caused a fire sale amongst all sectors Yeah, it has you know, uh fire sale of all sectors and uh you know and so You know, there's part of the reason why There is a a decent amount of my work in modern things Is because I was really stupid back when uh prices were high 20 years ago And I was growing seeds for me and friends On the side When everybody else was just bumping out flour and getting high prices So there wasn't that many people breeding 20 years ago And you were in a perfect spot for distribution in that area where people growing massive amounts of weed Yeah, I mean as far as distribution as far as getting friends to try it. Sure as far as making sales No, no not sales. No, it was it was a passion project money losing venture Yeah, and so as soon as the easy money goes out of it I anticipate most of the breeders that mostly just mash together stuff via reversals Will go do something else Yeah Um And uh, you know So, you know, it'll probably shrink which you know, there'll be a bunch of volume Uh shrinkage and then the people that are passionate about it will stay in it Yeah And then you'll have less options, but you'll probably have better people to buy from overall I hope so. I hope so. I mean when there was a Uh, not a big like burst in the scene before cookies and stuff when seeds were still kind of small There's probably 50 of us worldwide, you know, 2006 to 2008 Now there are thousands and thousands. So I hope it gets smaller Just because it was nicer people weren't as cutthroat, but I mean You know, it's cool. It's cool seeing a lot of different people's point of view though Like being able to see all the different Um crosses and stuff from all the different points of view is always cool Yeah, I mean that that is neat and I'm not trying to dissuade anyone I mean, I always say on the show when and I say in private too when people ask me Like how should I focus on being a good breeder? And I always say like, you know, try to breed things you like Yeah, try to like I like I like these things from this plant and these things from this plant I wonder if I cross them. Could I get the traits I like of both in a single plant? Yeah, could I make weed I like myself? You know People time please put the cookie lineage out there or not the the cookie thing is like I don't know when we'll get to the cookie thing Uh, that might be that might be a while. It's hard. One of the reasons why Uh, Matt and I started like in the 80s with nevel and the and the and corral and the sati club and all that is that Um, there was less people to get mad and argue Yeah Yep Yep You start in the 80s and you go to the 90s and there's only there's there's less humans that are going to get mad at you I only get sam this gun fan mad at me right now for for what we've done Cookies is like trying to be a a billion dollar empire They're definitely positioning themselves to sell out to like, you know, some huge corporation when it goes federal They have stores all over the place. They're big into branding And all that and so trying to You know, that's like really poking the dragon Yeah, because they don't give a shit about the truth Like the truth is irrelevant to them. They're building they're trying to build an enormous brand with stores all over the nation And clothing and all this different shit Yeah, I mean there was footage of burner going into city council meetings and talking about the illegal grows in that city by name So I pissing people off who do shit like that. It's not my bag No, no, they got they've got and you know, they're backed by a lot of money and stuff like that And so, you know, I know that there's I know that and it's not that's not the only reason I'm not going to do it yet part of the reason is is that There's a lot of lying and there's a lot of stories to unravel and You know, I do try to when I talk to people to be pretty upfront about what we think we know for pretty sure And what we are unsure of Yes And so when everyone has a different story and everyone's kind of a shady shady liar and everyone has issues You know, I know a lot that people don't know But I don't think I mean, you know, we're not quite there yet Yeah, we don't have the full picture yet. I don't think we're quite there yet So, uh, as a result of that we're probably, you know, and since like matt and I started way back We've just barely gotten to talking about the last 10 or 15 years. Yeah You know, uh, and that's hard. I still want to go back I still want to go back and cover the 90s for america because that one episode We kind of just went on a tangent and that would be fun to do So, I mean one of the one of the one of the things talking about, you know We can tie this into provenance or whatever, you know, and like strain history is Like as, you know cookies is a good example So, you know skittles is too and all these different things where it's like You have a loose association of friends with no contracts and no organization And then a strain that comes out of their little circle gets hella famous Yeah, and then there's a grab of who does what So there's four or five or six people tightly involved in the cookie story early Yeah, as far as like when it got famous forget about like how it got made or the various steps But as far as like after it started getting provenance Yeah, right and there's no contract. So who gets what piece of the pie? You know same thing with with skittles skittles used to be, you know Tony Mendo and fields and and uh and third gen shiloh And then, you know, there was battles over direction and this and that and everything else and it's split into into two camps Yep, and then, you know shiloh and brandon didn't get along and so they split Uh, and so fame and money has been the end of a lot of clothes of weed friendships Yeah, because who owns it? Who should profit off it who gets what who did what? You know And look at burner, you know burners the face of cookie. I can tell you straight. He had nothing to do with it Yeah, oh He promoted he's a great clothing guy though Yeah, he promoted and and he's good at promoting and he has the part and and all that and so the guy that had the Least to do with it got to be the most famous face of it Yeah You know people are people are kind of learning like some people say nobody owns the plant Yeah People say someone just said nobody owns the plant Uh, there's a lot of people that are going to be trying to own plants. Yes You watch Owning plants trademarking names Uh trademarking strains genetic markers all that different types of shit. That's all coming Yeah, you know for me. That's very complicated because I'm one of those people's like fuck that I don't want to fucking deal with that shit like but I'm gonna be the one who loses out in the end for not giving a shit not wanting to do it You know what I mean? So it is it's another catch 22 that like if I don't at least learn about it and how to protect myself Then I'm gonna get railed I had I had an interview this week lawyers. I had an interview this week about my my collection Yeah, you know and a big-time nursery that I won't name Yeah, and I you know, I wanted to see What they thought Yeah, what was their line of thinking? What was their offer? You know, what was their you know, not like like is it good enough to sell out or anything like that? But yeah, just like you know thoughts on like how people are arranging Because a lot of these things, you know, a lot of these nurseries a lot of these rich people It's like one of the things they don't have is they don't have the stories They don't have the cuts and they don't have to know how Yeah, none of it and they all thought they could buy their way into a clandestine scene The marketing, you know the lawyers the certifications the licensing the real estate they got all that Yeah So there's a big thing where it's like it's almost like they're going around to desperate growers and be like, you know Um, do you want to license your shit? You know But then it's like who like for instance like who licenses the chem 91 But you know, but i'm serious, you know, yeah, like greg Staten island Skunk VA me I see Someone else someone we never heard of yeah You know like how would you even how would like how would you even go for it? Well, I hate to break it to you, but my grandfather is actually Uh the king of dog bud. He was elected. So I think it might be Yeah, I mean, you know you uh, you know secret societies all that Yeah, I'm being all my secret societies. That's one of them. Indeed But you know, but that but that's that kind of stuff is coming So it's one thing if like you want to talk to a breeder and like You know freaking uh Fletcher wants to license rainbow belts Yeah, because it's like he made it Yeah But what about every old cut that just came out of the ether? And got traded around There's people that are going to be attempting to lock those in That's coming Yeah, I always wondered why um Rob Clark's name was associated with oji kush on phylos over a tie. That was weird And those guys you can look around. I mean the like phylos exists in a different form now You know and I saw and there's different and you and you look and there's there You know, I love Rob Clark and his contributions to cannabis, but he's on some he's on some suspect boards Yeah, yeah, you know of some of some companies and stuff like that, you know um And uh, yeah all these people who has a claim to the stake and then when the and then like And then how much of that stake and then whatever and it's like a lot of these people are just trying to collect genetics and dangle money in front of you And not even money for buying it like money in the future like like spot us to them And then when we sell a bunch of them will give you money Yeah, but really we'd need to give us the collection first And that's going on all over the place and they're looking for They're looking for they're looking for desperate people Yeah, for sure and and unfortunately for them and unfortunately for the scene They don't give a fuck if it's real or not. They just want someone to tell them it's real And if it's a big enough company That proliferates more than any real cut ever would and that's how things change for good and that's how you Yeah, when it first happened um in the 90s Strains got trademarked, right? So I bought I bought super skunk direct from nevel Um in the in the in the late 90s, right? um, but it was called ultra skunk Yeah, because Sensey owned super skunk. Yep. They owned the name You know, um, you know, uh white widows owned by greenhouse Even though they're breeder who you know shanty left or whatever it's it's like they own it It's almost like someone saying they own breeder syndicate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah people get the name They get the name or whatever and so that so what's cool about history Uh in any case not just weed history But uh humans aren't really that much different. Yeah So by studying the past you'll start to see a lot of a lot a lot of similarities in in the end today And what happened in amsterdam in the 90s is happening again. Yes You know, you might even say arjun is is is, you know greenhouse was the dutch cookie. Yeah, very much so, you know Rich backed by backed by a bunch of capital Right really connected backers Yeah, all that type of stuff, you know Um, and there's big money behind all that And just like just like a greenhouse did when they went to south africa and africa They got all their strains there and it took out a lot of those heirloom lines. They're gone I was just talking to someone from south africa yesterday. They're gone We see burner going to thailand and we're gonna see again in the next several years Those heirloom lines are going to be gone and replaced by what is being pushed over there What's being what's selling vast over there? I mean a lot of a lot of morocco Is dutch strains? Yeah, a lot of jamaica has been replaced by fast growing, uh dutch dutch genetics in jamaica Same with mexico that kind of stuff starts getting it starts getting pushed around and things like that, you know And so, you know cookies doesn't even grow weed Yeah, they're a clothing company and a dispensary Yeah, you know, they just they just make arrangements with people to grow weed for them And then they have their own branded bags. Yeah, they control them. They control the mylar's They do they control the mylar's and the point of sale and you're buying cookie from cookie store And burner was at the grand opening But they don't grow weed because that's too complicated. They're they're a they're a brand I remember back in the day. He said we aren't into genetics. That's for nerds I never forgotten that when they started selling seeds. I was like, oh, that's cute Yeah, I mean, but it's like that's the you know You can knock it but obviously You know, he's in this for you know reputation and money Yeah, you want I probably should be too, but you know, but it's like that's I mean, that's like You know, it's there, you know, there's there's nothing wrong with money and there's nothing wrong with making a living Sure I'm just saying that like some people like don't really give a shit at all about what they're involved in they just want hits Yeah Right. They just want to make money They just want to survive You know and uh And you know, so they're opening all these stores in these different places and all that and You know, they have dozens of you know, they they make contracts with dozens of people. They don't grow weed Yeah A lot of brands don't grow weed most big famous brands not that I'm not picking on cookie Most big famous Cali brands are not vertically integrated and rarely grow their own work Yeah, or they have one small grow that doesn't fill their brand And they give clones to other growers to fill a brand and make the mark up on the difference Yeah So, you know, the brands are starting to become more important than the weed and then and then when you're in a situation where Uh You know, um, I just started reading the comments again and got totally distracted Yeah, sure when you're in a situation where you uh You know, you buy weed and my lars and you can't even see or smell it most of the time Yeah, because it's just got a bunch of opaque art on it It's sort of like a mystery bag Yeah You know, um, they license cuts and then they you know, and then are they even the real cuts? It doesn't matter in the end, you know, it doesn't even matter Yeah, and they you know, they have different breed. They don't even have like in-house breeders Yeah, they have breeders they work with like they worked with jbz for a while And who also buy seeds from other people and yeah, and you know, they work with compound and they work They they farm out all that stuff Yeah, so they're always on the lookout for different people that you know And it's like well, you know, you want to stand next to burner and smoke weed at openings and get more rep And get your weed in the store, you know But I want to make sure it's clear a lot of that is farming out to people who farm out Those weren't actual people making seeds that you mentioned They they were hired to make seeds and farmed it out. Yeah, there's there's layers of farming Yeah, there's lots of layers of there's layers and there's And you know, there's layers there's layers to all that like I contract with you to do this You say you're gonna do it you hire your friend to do this and it's like it's very you know So there's an aspect where you know, um, right now like history is mostly useful for marketing Yeah Right, that's kind of how I see it Yeah, it seems to be Oh, he's cutting out. We must be in a bad spot Oh, I thought we had him What So while he's cutting out, I'll go over this real quick After the show on our discord patreon and uh, it'll probably be you know an hour or two after We're gonna pick some people from a random drawing to receive the can of bible collection Uh, and that lucky person is also going to receive A medium bottle of the right reversal spray So after the show we'll be doing that getting the uh, Giveaway going for everyone on the discord patreon is a thank you for everyone who is Participating in that and tomorrow we've got some good fights to watch too as well So I'm looking forward to that And I'm looking forward to not so popping back in eventually here. Hopefully Probably got a phone call that tends to kick us off. Y'all mean with that wig check y'all mean He What else do I have do you want to join the breeder syndicate patreon go to Um, uh, google type in breeder syndicate patreon and that's how you'll find us And he's back. Thanks for stopping in stony That's cool, man. It's real cool. I want to talk to you after I'm back. All right. There he is I live in the country. So we've had very few technical difficulties relatively speaking Yeah, um You know that wasn't bad. That wasn't too bad. I blame it on matt's headdress Yeah, my headdress did it. It was the yellow his yellow headdress. There was something happened. Yeah Um, you know, so I'm back. I apologize. I don't even know where I necessarily got cut off, but You know, I was trying to make the point that Um, history and provenance and like whose hands it went through There's a core group of us that are really interested in it And there's uh, a bunch of people that are only interested in the marketing aspect. Yes And while there might be a great amount of interest in the public about it Right. Um, that doesn't mean that like that leads to a bunch of people honestly trying to go forth and figure it out Yeah, no and rarely does that because it takes time. It takes money and time friendships trust respect That would be funny if we were talking about the cfam and I got cut off because like uh, It it triggered some algorithm that they pay for Yeah, you know and they were just like nope. Nope cut the signal. Yeah cut the signal This is not the publicity that we're into Come back with not so with a hole in his head But you know, I'll mention something about about about cookie just from like a personal standpoint like in the uh You know, I'll never have a good a good collection of um of cookie cuts because There's too many things to try to hold on to already And I don't personally like most of them very much. Yeah So it's like you can't hold everything You know because that's that's crazy So you really have to pick and choose what you personally enjoy Yeah, and it's going to be interesting now because cookies is just old enough where people start talking about like Do you have the real forum? Is that the real o9 animal? Yeah, yeah, right. Is that who's got the thin mint? Yeah Who's got the and the and the The hands on that is pretty terrible. You got that amherst kind of cookies Oh my gosh The amherst thing bugs the hell out of me because I mean that was like with the diesels and stuff like that That was literally just something like uh, mandel just decided to add on to the story Yeah, why not you know when when I gave them cuts? Yeah, and then all of a sudden there's amherst sour diesel or whatever, you know, yeah, so Uh animal animal is one of the better ones, but mostly because it leans way more closer to og Yeah, I like the more gas You know the gas the gas stuff tends to have You know the problem is my big my biggest issue with with with uh cookie before you know not to just diss the hell out of them or anything Is that I think cookie came out in this in this era where they got fucked hard where Um i g happened so visually appealing weed was super important Yeah, and testing was starting to be super important And there was probably good highs in that weed That got sacrificed for better looking better testing weed. Yeah And then they lost the high and they can't get it back Yeah Kind of that's kind of how I see most of cookie Yeah, I mean they they were playing and they weren't breeders and that's what happens when you in breed Yeah, it really is what happens. I mean that's what happened to blueberry. It needed some uh, Need some new juice needs to be outcrossed to something completely different. Yeah You know um and uh, you know and so but that's kind of like like cookies and skittles and you know All that kind of stuff that's sort of like the start of what maybe I would consider like modern marketing And hyping and cannabis. Yeah That's where that's where it started. Yeah I would have to agree because before that it's like so silly like In the previous era before that where like sour diesel was king Nobody cared what cut of sour diesel you had it just had to be gas and good weed and sell Yeah, so all this all this shit about like which exact one it was Was semi irrelevant when brokers were pounding on the door demanding a bunch of it Shit, it didn't matter if it was soma's new york city diesel. It smelled like fucking great fruits and perfume Yeah, they would you know like it just went and so like this massive thing of tracing down sour lineage Is almost kind of new. Yeah It's newer I would say Yeah, and it's only been in the past like decade that we've been able to kind of push everyone all together That was involved with it same with og same with all this other stuff Some of the really quiet people were some of the most important and only really started posting or talking or communicating with people to spread Their part of it. Yeah, and that's another issue with provenance that we should mention Is that often the first and the loudest and the most consistent with their story gets their story out Yes, and they might not And that might not actually be accurate Yeah, but if they don't have anybody challenging them from the group Yeah, it can stand uncontested for some time. Yeah Like take for instance You know, there's multiple cuts that I think are really good cuts that are headband Yeah, but matt and I consider to be og cuts. Yeah But they're all claimed every single one is claimed to be original new york city headband came from new york From new york the original headband the legendary one Yeah, right You don't know what you're talking about and then just when the last year or so Manny and swell and some others started talking about what that cut looked like And it turns out it was a very fox tays taley deasily looking skunky cut. Yeah And all of a sudden people holding real new york city headband guaranteed That looks like an og kush. Yeah They had 10 years of nobody was contradicting them with their headband story. Yeah, maybe it was how can you say? Yeah And now they're like, well fuck You know, you're a dick for bringing this up You're a dick for bringing it up all over again, even though the All this is still out there to be read. What do you mean the guy that had it named? It says this isn't it Yeah Right Um and uh, you know and Yeah, and like, you know funky headband in upstate new york people are talking about it and there's two different headband cuts in california Both which I think are really nice Um that are very og kush like yeah Very og kush like don't smell or look or anything like Like like the guys from back in new york described the original headband that they grew at Yeah But you know that took that only happened within the last couple of years Yeah And a lot of them down to get that to get those quotes and shit Yeah to get those quotes and to get them to confirm exactly what it was like and to get them public Maybe a small group of friends knew yeah, but it wasn't something that was widely disseminated And so when there's legends and there's very little information on them It allows a lot of people to just step in and say well, this is well, this is what's true Yeah You know um and uh You know so there's an aspect right there where um provenance is only cared about by a few people Most of it use it for marketing or sales Uh and um, you know and then you know once it becomes popular It's like as soon as it's as soon as all this stuff is unpopular again all the old stuff will go away Because nobody will care They won't take the magic power of a sharpie and a label Yeah A lot won't remember They won't remember You know um and uh, you know there's yeah, so there's And you know one of the one of the cool things too was even like on even on like our discords and stuff like that Where uh matt and a bunch of friends of mine gather Uh when we started throwing those parties around emerald cup It was for a lot of us because a lot of us were from different parts of the country It was some of the first time that we got to get together and actually smoke personal flower of each other's Yeah, and put highs and flavors and and visibility to like what was just talking in pictures before Yeah You know um And you also like this is for real like I mean If you're gonna go hang out at one of these events always remember to bring something cool and that That doesn't suck because You're asked go and get judged by what you bring no matter what no matter what strain it is now it's grown You're gonna get judged. It's how it goes. So come correct That's just a little advice for people Yeah, and I mean it it uh um And you know that's the other part of it. It's it's like it's hard to grow good weed Yeah, too, you know, I you know, I saw this thing where I grew uh You know our buddy pip gave me his version of the east coast sour diesel When I was doing my head to head to head to head diesel comparisons Yeah, and I grew it in the sun and he came out to one of our parties and he was like, oh my god Dude, I think I've only grown it that nice twice. Yeah, and I don't think I did anything incredibly special I just think that The soil it was in in the sun And the the the weather that year was nice and it just came out nice All of the diesels came out really really um flavorful from that depth that year. Yeah Yeah, that was that was a good year And so I had a lot of good weed those couple of those those few years before kovat ruined it or whatever, but um You know, but a lot of times it's like you hear about a bunch of this weed And you and but you it's not like everybody gets to smoke it. Yeah It's not like, you know, csi is sending me and matt like dozens of samples all the time of all the things in his library to peruse Oh, he's not he didn't send you. Oh No, probably not Yeah weekly Weekly week daily. Yeah the daily your daily just go check the p. O box and it's there, you know Daily daily supply perfectly cured. And so yeah, there's people there's there's people that uh, uh That were that are that are asking. Oh, you should release it. You should you should this and so there's a part where it's like So maybe we'll maybe we'll throw out a little bit of like soap box or pontificating here for a second, right? The reason why I hold strains is basically one reason I like them Yeah, that's how that's how a strain gets held by me for a long time and it's also this thing where You know, it's like it's part of our heritage and history Right and so if enough people hold on to enough strains that they like Then there's a reasonably good chance that a bunch of diversity survives Yeah, and there's only so many people that are willing to do it Like if you're holding it hoping that one day it ends up being super valuable You'll probably be bitter Yeah, we we actually saw a case of this where a friend at the time Finally got a hold of an old cut and he thought because he got a hold of this old cut That it was going to make him rich and or famous and it didn't turn out that way And he was going to be able to make seeds and there was going to be various things that happened with it And it was going to like unlock He was going to be leveling up Leveling up. That's a good way of putting it. Yeah, and it didn't work, you know And if you really loved it and it was just about it then that wouldn't matter Yeah, none of it Because you know if I was trying to like if I was trying to gain a bunch of reps from my seeds and a bunch of money from my seeds Then like all my breeding is a total failure and I'd be so pissed Yeah, because everybody would be like oh people stole it from me and did this with it Did that with it or whatever, but if your goal is to preserve it and you want people to smoke better weed Right like the guy getting all pissed thinking that like I'd be all pissed off because I was beating him to the punch Oh, like I I want people to smoke better weed Yeah, I think diesels and you know and those kind of plants are better weed than a lot of what's been bred with in the last few years So, you know, I'm happy that there's weed out. I want good pot Yeah, I want good pot to to use to make better pot to then Make better pot that other people used to make better pot. So exactly and eventually everyone's going to forget who the fuck you are Yeah, I mean most of all nobody after a hundred years, dude Or even after 30. I mean every nevel might nevel might be really famous But most of the stuff that he bred is bred into other things and his contribution and name to it is lost Even though it's probably the backbone of a ton of stuff we work with He's famous to like a few of us nerds and that's about it Anymore and that's unfortunate because he should have that that special place Right see so there's all kinds of people that I'm chatting about this. They're like, please. Let's do it Please let's do it release do this kind of thing and I can do this You can do this thing where you could be cool and you could maybe offer that Right, but then you're a capitalistic sellout piece of shit Yeah, like the only people that are allowed to be capitalistic sellout pieces of shit are people that actually are that way And then they're just immune from it. They don't care Yeah, they just don't write they just they're just they're just like whatever and they're just like, oh, yeah Like I just proved you're exactly like me Yeah Right, but most people who are listening to this Probably are here because they like good weed Yeah You know like that's that's the weird thing and that's like I don't have like, you know Is matt's well aware like there's good friends of ours in the in our circle that have my strengths Just because they're good friends Yeah, just not you know it Yeah, just not you You know, but um, I can't Can't I then people would say I'm using you can't happen Yeah, well, I mean there's there's there's aspects to it too and stuff and it's not even so much like, uh um You know life and co vid and and it's it's been it's been an odd in the end really that's what exactly what would happen That's exactly what happened. So it just can't it just You know one of those things and that's where I look at it Like people don't believe that I actually gave that cut to our homie to make hybrids with just so more people Could try it. Yeah. No, and I don't get anything for it. No Where like a lot of times people don't understand that like for a lot of people that hold cuts They demand any other breeder working with it pay them royalties Or give them seed or make some kind of arrangement to do it There's a lot of like secret horse trading that goes on First born people so people want to get in positions where like they're the controller of the cut. Yeah Right and I just gave it to him because he's my good homie and I know he'll back it up for me and he won't pour it out Um, and I was like make as many hybrids as you want and a bunch of people are growing good weed and enjoying it So that's nice You know But that does that is that beneficial to me? No, no, you know, like not at least in a financial sense. No You know, um, but But people can't conceive that you would have something valuable and just share it Yeah, I mean you you share all your vibrators are real cool about it. So They can shut up. It's the it's the you know, once once they're no longer good enough for me and I have to upgrade You know Gotta share And and so there's there's an aspect where it's like, I know I'm not the only reason why I threw that out there is because like Isn't isn't for people to be like, oh, he should have done this or this person should have done that It's more that like You know, not everything has to be about money Yeah Right not all the time now. We do everybody needs money Right and it's like so there's nothing wrong with selling I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with selling clones or selling seeds or selling good flower or like anything like that because it's like You're trading on value The problem becomes is that just because of humans A bunch of people are going to scam you Yeah That's really what's going to happen. And so then it's like, I don't know like um You know, I think I would like there to be better weed more often Yeah, I think the current craze for the last four or five years has led us kind of far away from better weed. Mm-hmm It would be nice if better weed came back around it would And it's still around it just you gotta get in the right circles And well the problem is is that that's exactly what i'm talking about where it's like it's always in certain circles Yeah, it's just the public. How do you get the public to have it? How do you get more people to access it? How do you get young people that listens every week and loves our fucking show or something? And they would die to try it and there's nowhere for them to go Yeah, it's a conundrum It is a conundrum You know because there's nice people You know that are younger and into it and and hiked up and would love to try these different things that were talked about And and and all that different types of stuff and it's like there's not an easy Verifiable way to figure out what to do. That's right You know though, but like I kind of look at the the discord chat is a good way to meet the people Like the the next generation of people that are really passionate about this like they shine through real obviously because they're the ones who Won't stop asking questions about genetics. What's in this? What cut did you use of this? What did you see in this I fucking love it like most people think you would probably get annoyed after a while But nerding out like that that that is one. Oh, yeah People sharing all those I mean the reason the reason why I know that like people are finding a bunch of cool stuff in the la la by d Is because people send me stuff and smoke reports and pictures all the time. Yeah, and they're pumped Yeah, I just I spent last month smoking the uh, what was it the la crossed at the triangle my buddy, uh, space invader and Um king cultivars and that shit was fire Fire, I loved it. Yeah, so that's good. Yeah You know, but it's like it's it's there's a way where uh, how do you how do you figure that out because You know, I don't know it like this whole show was kind of based on that. It's rambled a bit But it's like provenance ethics How clone trading started where it is right now? Uh, because I don't know I don't even remember. I don't even think five years ago people were offering up a bunch of clones on On ig very often. Yeah, they were but but it just there's so many more and there's so many more trying to say they have XYZ rare cut because it just wasn't people weren't as interested in xyz rare cut from the 70s or 80s It's just there is that demand now for whatever reason So now yeah, now there's tons of new people that are jumping in and they want access to all these various old things And there's clone dealers that have you know that are offering up I mean, wasn't there like some shit where this guy raised like if there was like 180 thousand dollars or something from like rs 11 Oh, yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah, and they sold like, you know, they sold more like a thousand dollars a cut or something Yeah, you know So, you know and back in the og kush days, it's like remember resin's joke of 250 thousand dollars For the louis louis the 13th og. Yeah. Yeah, because there was this one guy that had it and it was like a marketing thing, you know, I mean Um, uh, I had a dude that told told me that they paid 55 thousand dollars for the for a haze cut from florida Because they were selling they were selling a business In their regard you were going to be able to grow that and hustle it to a market In fairness that cut does have amazing extracts that you're talking about. It's pretty fucking good Yeah, you know, but I just mean the sense where they're like, oh, you're gonna be able to grow this and sell it to new york And you're gonna make x amount of money and da da da da da. So if you want this business and we have it You have to buy it And so there's it's like this weird thing of like, are you a hoarder? Are you a sharer? Are you with this? Are you that? How do you how do you navigate that? Yeah Because now we've been talking about a bunch of stuff and we talk about pot that we love a bunch of people ask us about A pot that we love Yep You know this this one dude said rs 11 made a million and it was dirty with viruses Of course it was That sucks You know and now people are popping up with all kinds of crazy numbers. I you know of people selling access to various clones Yeah, we hear about all the time because people messages are like, hey, should we trust this person? And like I don't even like answering that shit because it just makes more people mad when I answer that shit So yeah, well, yeah, it's that I mean it's it's hard to because then it's like if you if you tell the truth And you're not very trustworthy of that person's provenance. Then they think you're pulling money out of their wallet Yeah, so they're pissed off at you. Yeah You know, um, yeah people used to sell people used to sell the skittles You know people used to sell the og this out like it's it's it's ongoing. It's been ongoing for a long time Yeah, it's just social media made it easier I think Okay, so We've gone pretty heavily through the provenance part and I do you want to talk any about any Of the new potential ideas that we have coming up. We're probably going to do the the not so story time finally Yeah, we can chat about we can chat about all that so As people are may or may not be aware We have our we have our our discord back And and our and you know various things And and we've been putting a bunch of content old content and some new content up on youtube Right for people to chat about And so we thought rather than having like these long-winded rambling conversations every week that go in a million different directions at times We might be able to do like some more focused stuff Yeah, because a lot of times in the comments people ask to get hella focused on certain things Yeah, but it's hard to go off on those tangents. Yeah, so what we're thinking about doing is uh Matt's going to do some of it, but i'm going to do uh a couple of things one of them is uh Uh not so story time as matt likes to call it Where people get to listen to me ramble about various canna stories or various historical bits or or funny things Yeah, right one of them might just be a uh a five or ten minute, uh discourse on a whole bunch of different strains Yep, nl one nl five this that whatever it might just be like the collected knowledge of this is what we know You know because a lot of times people ask us about stuff too and we've covered it on previous shows But it might have been a year ago You know halfway through one of them Yeah, it could be three years ago. It was me doing it solo and I think it's something me and not so covered It happened all the time now Yeah, so you know those things would go you know and it would basically be like a conversation starter And a place that people could go listen to something for five or 10 or 15 minutes Um and sort of get like this is the best we know and hear some educated guesses So like strain history Storytime and then maybe a third thing that I've been thinking about which is like uh grow styles And you know and trade-offs Yeah, what are you trying to do? How are you trying to do it? Um a lot of people that are that that are trying to give grow knowledge or trying to sell a certain method Or hydroponic nutrients or whatever it may be whatever it might be nutrients amendments biology You know a way of life And they want to convince you that if you just follow this path like you know christianity or whatever buddhism You know this will give you all the answers. Yeah, and life is rarely like that with growing. There's a lot of trade-offs Sure is You know and so not every growing style is is suitable for every growing You know every growing goal Yeah, um hold on real quick people are asking if we have to change anything the patreon No, there is no new one there is you don't have to do anything different the discord It kicks you automatically into it most people that are already a part of it are already there If not you just go back to patreon and click connect the discord hit disconnect and then hit connect And it'll kick you into the room and that's it. Just got to be a part of the patreon and we now have three different Levels for patreon and the third one's a pretty cool one. So go check that out too Yeah, and it's basically just like matt and I like taking full control Yeah over the process You know, um weed partnerships are hard. Yeah, they are they can be very complicated. It can be complicated with two people so yeah, and all that and so um, so You know, there's uh, people are saying I'll follow lucas formula to the holy land. That's that's some of this Some of the stuff is like how uh, but yeah, it'll be it'll be chats about all kinds of stuff lighting nutrient Houses styles trade-offs and and some are going to be solo with not so so you don't have to hear me say yeah Every five minutes and some are going to be solo with me to where you might just fast forward. They'll fuck a thing But we might even we might even have a situation where people have been asking about like a fuck ups Yeah, um, you know, so there might be there might be some aspect of like, you know, where did you really flail? Yeah, I've got plenty of stories I got yeah, I got plenty of stories of that too and that between that and just and friends and seeing every Everyone around me growing for 25 years Uh, you've seen lots of failure lots of mistakes Yep, you know so um So yeah, I mean we're gonna we're gonna be trying to be doing some like shorter and some more medium term content Uh, you know all that type of stuff. It's basically just like trying to share culture Yeah, try to share info And and if you're a part of the patreon discord Like we have the five dollar fifteen dollar and then the 15 50 dollar one now on the 15 and 50 We're doing like small private group sessions We're gonna be trying to do that once a month where me and not so sit down with maybe five people in a group And just shoot the shit and get more personal than we ever can get in these larger groups So check that out too Yeah It'll be fun You can ask not so about all his dirty dirty dirty sex nights like I do every night You know matt is uh, it's hard for matt to think about much else It's that face. It's that hair. It just goes right back to it. You know, it's the two things It's mostly just trying to throw me off whatever i'm talking about and having stutter And and uh and stumble uh while he laughs. He's uncrackable. He's uncrackable. I don't know if i'm uncrackable or anything like that Pretty hard But you know generally speaking Ethics and cannabis is weird provenance is weird because we come from Uh, you know a shady gray area illegal quasi legal You know thing where it's basically just about your word and you know, uh, people were either there or they weren't there And and so, you know, there's a lot We see a lot of scams Yeah, and one of the ways that matt has become so popular uh on instagram and in other platforms Is by trying to expose said scams Yeah, that's more my my autism twinging though. It just fucking drives me nuts You know and so everybody that everybody that he tries to expose ends up hating him And then that trail gets longer and longer They got an army like an art an army of haters and then some of their fans end up becoming haters um, and so you know, uh We just want to give out real information and you know too when it comes to the story time or when it comes to strain history or whatever it might be Uh, people think that we might be threatened by better information that comes out or more information that adds levels of detail or might change perspective uh Not at all The whole point of all this stuff is to start conversations and to start people chattering and to start thinking And if people come out of the woodwork with verifiable information that makes the the history deeper and richer Like rather than being insulted. That's cool. Yeah, that's awesome. I don't that's to be you know So some people come out and it's like oh, they're like, oh, you can prove i'm a liar Uh, no you're trying to tell stories from an inherently shadowy world Yeah, we're not everyone agrees and people argue about everything Yeah, and you're trying to give some form of reliable history That's as close to what you can get is what you can get but there could have been somebody there that adds an angle to it You didn't see Yeah, and so that's kind of what history is right? It's like science. You build on what you know And when something comes along to change part of what you know, you add that into the fabric and keep going Yeah, so rather than being discrediting. It's like it's it's uh, it's a chance to sort of like crowdsource information Is that that's at least how I see it? No, I I definitely see it that way as well. I mean If if info comes out and we end up being wrong about something I'd much rather correct myself and be right to continue to be wrong And I'm I'm much happier knowing more info. That's that's one of those things about being a nerd more info is great Even if it's counter, you know to what you think Yeah, I mean like I you know, I just think everybody likes history until it bumps up against their prejudices. Yeah Yeah, you know science too, you know, it's like it they prove something and it goes against your religion Or your belief set or your this or that or whatever and you're like no You know Oh, also before we get done Um The all the websites are working riot seats dot nl riot seatco.com and riot seats dot com no matter Which one you use it all takes you to the site after this on the the Patreon discord discord patreon. We're going to give this set of the cannibals away to one lucky person and A medium-sized bottle of reversal spray So after that if you're part of the patreon will probably be an hour after the show before I even start Going through the names and adding them into the randomizer thing So if you want to join you have about an hour to join after this to be a part of the giveaway Yeah, I think that's really it That is pretty much it Yeah, I mean as always I really appreciate the couple hours everybody gives uh on friday night Yep, you know, uh, sorry for the brief technical difficulties, but You can always reach out to us. You can always chat with us more on discord You can always you can always message me on ig I try to be responsive. I get buried sometimes But I try to be responsive to everybody You can join the you can join the the discord and and get some cool stuff and chat with us And you can also give us ideas of what you want want want to hear more about Yeah, we're taking a lot of input from the from the patreon discord people on different episode ideas on the single episode ideas Like I said, it's it's up on youtube. It's up on every platform Be sure to look for the 2.0 because if you're only following breeder syndicate and not breeder syndicate 2.0 You're not going to get any of the new episodes So make sure you're following 2.0 be sure to like share subscribe review all that stuff it helps us So yeah, and then share and subscribe there might be stuff where it's like, you know We think it's we think we've talked it to death But a bunch of people want us to chat about it because they they want it to be in more detail And then we'll be like, okay, we will yeah, so it is responsive in that regard Yeah, we try to take everyone's input into this But anyway, um people keep asking how do you get into this discord? You go to patreon you go google breeder syndicate patreon You join the patreon and once you've joined the patreon It'll give you a thing that says connect to discord you click that and it'll take you write it. So that's all it takes That's it fantastic. All right, everybody enjoy your friday night Thank you so much. Yep. See a bunch of you tonight. Peace