 Oh my God, did you guys see Ben's Instagram the other day? The Donut one, the Paleo Donut. Paleo Donuts. Beaver, butthole, extra. It's so paleo. It's so great. He also, he just released an episode. So if you have not been over there, make sure you go check out Ben Greenfield Fitness. Go download his podcast. He did an excellent episode on protein bars in the industry. Energy bars. I love this because we just- And he breaks them down. We have to hammer the shenanigans that are happening in this industry. Did it, if you enjoyed the supplement one that we did, the protein shake and the pre-workout podcast that we just did, make sure you go over to Ben's and listen to that one because he does the same thing. He dives into all the bars, gets into great detail about all the bullshit that they've, that they're filled with and talks all about it. Excellent podcast. Go check it out. Ben Greenfield. Let's give away some- Is it that time, Sal? Expensive t-shirt. We need to come up with a cheaper thing to give away. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Key chains. Key chains. That's a great idea. That's what you know. Or a shout-out. Would you give me a shout-out? That'll be the sign that people know that my mom's not doing so well. You get a sticker now. Sorry. Yeah. It's a sticker or a key chain. Hook them up, Douglas. All right. We got 13 reviews this last week. Excellent. And we're giving away four shirts. Starting with Grace A. Gitt. Stewart, 1322. Stewart. Alex Aray, 9362 and Chilisaurus. That's my favorite dinosaur. He's always cool, man. Beats out Barney any day. All right. Every one of you is a winner of a fine quality t-shirt. You got to send the name of the one I just read to iTunes at mindpumpmedia.com. It's made out of velvet. Yeah. Probably not. Velvet from the antlers of deer. And then also include your shirt size, your shipping address. We'll get that right out to you. I thought it was fine Peruvian sloth fur. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump. Mind pump. With your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Hey, in this episode of Mind Pump, for about 20 minutes, we talk about random subjects like Applebee's and their interactive table screens. Yeah. And Adam's experience with that. We talk about kids and technology. I have a story about magnifying glasses. The challenge of relying on technology and not using our brain, and how you can get your kids involved in fitness. And then we get to the fitness. The first question was, what do we think about all these controversial studies that are coming out? By the way, they're all old studies, where the American Heart Association is now saying, coconut oil is bad for you. Replace it with vegetable oil. They're at it again. They're at it again. And are they right this time or are they still wrong? Don't be a sucker. Is it still wrong information? We'll be continued. Listen to this episode to find out. The next question is, is it the same thing when you do three sets of two reps versus six sets of run reps? All the same amount of reps? Are they the same? I'm confused. Or is there different adaptations going on? We get into a nice discussion about that. Then we talk about how you can minimize muscle loss when you regress your intensity to focus on muscle imbalances. We always talk about how important it is to work on imbalances and how important it is to get good recruitment patterns. But how much muscle are you going to lose if you do that? And will you lose muscle? That's really the question. Lastly, is it physiologically possible to put on muscle mass naturally after the age of 30? All three of us were extremely offended by this question. Lastly, if you go to mindpumpmedia.com, we have our summer starter pack. And here's what we did. We put all the things that we thought were essential for people to get started on their fitness journey. We put in this Maps Anabolic, our foundational muscle-building fat loss program. We combined that with Maps Prime, which has a self-assessment tool called Compass, which teaches you how to correct imbalances and change recruitment patterns. We included a nutritional component. That's our Fasting Nutrition Guide. And then lastly, we wanted to make sure that you got help all along the way. Maps Anabolic is about 12 weeks long. During that entire process, you're bound to have questions. You're bound to want to have someone assess your form The forum is the perfect place for it. That's all included. We put it all together, taken the total price, and cut it more than half. It's over 50%. It will totally replace your Facebook. This is the only month to do it. It will end this month. It's at mindpumpmedia.com. I have a confession slash... We have to talk about this thing. A confession? Ooh, confessional. Ooh, I love this. Hold on, let me get ready. I got to sit down. I went to Applebee's for the first time in probably 15 years. My God. Okay. Have you guys been to Applebee's? Last time I was there, I think I had like mozzarella sticks. That's been a long time. If I pick a place like that, it's Outback Steakhouse. Okay, so let me tell you why I brought this up. So my... Applebee's terrible. And I don't know if this is part of getting older or what, but when I go to places like this, especially a big chain like Applebee's that I haven't done. Anywhere where they wear vests and flair. It's not a good idea. My business brain starts spinning right away. Like I'm fascinated by it. You're criticizing, you're analyzing. Everything critical. Okay, so have you guys... So you guys probably haven't seen this yet. I haven't seen it anywhere else, but here. Oh, I bet. I know what you're gonna say. Go ahead. So, on the tables, everybody has their own personal iPad, looking thing. Yeah, yeah. And on it... Outback has that too. On it has, you know, you swipe your card and there's all these interactive games. For like a $1.99 unlimited while you're... Yes. I've seen it. And so we were Katrina and we just happened to be talking about that, you know, this staying off your phones when we're sitting and having dinner or we're having our time together, right? Like being disconnected. Applebee's like, fuck that. So, well, we'll give it to you. And here's what I thought was clever as fuck, though. Okay, so when you look at the whole thing as a business, the food is closer to terrible than it is to good. Okay? But the price range is incredible. I mean, you're getting... I think I got like a steak and a bunch of shit, dude, for like $20, you know? It was like, just think yourself like, this is impossible. And a steak, yeah. So... Steak and lobster. But for what you pay, it's decent, you know what I'm saying? Like if I was in a little budget area where I wanted to go out and I mean, I get it. So they're definitely... That's a fancy dinner for a lot of people. Well, they're appealing to a majority, let's be honest. You know what I'm saying? A majority of people, that's kind of what you can afford on a Friday night. So no knock in that area. I think actually you're doing an incredible job for what their price range is. And then to add to that, they've got these things on there. And so Katrina and I started by like kind of mocking it. At first we're like, well, we have to try it. Like I want to see like, what are they doing? You know, I want to see. And so we did like this dating one. And it's actually really fucking cool, right? So... What do you mean like if you're on a first date? Yes. Yes. It's so brilliant. Whoa. So it goes... Mind blown. So it's like, I had to... I turned the screen to me first and it asked me like 10, 15 questions. It's kind of like the newlywed game. They do the icebreaker for you. Dude, right? Wow. It's brilliant. It's brilliant when you think of it like that for a date. Like you've never... And then so I answer all these questions and then I turn it and then she answers all and then we go through them or then it goes through and reads each one then she has to pick and it shows how many we're a lot of like and not a lot of... Dude, it's two bucks, right? For unlimited use. Yeah, $1.99. Yeah. So Outback has the same thing and... I didn't know that. I've been to Outback not that long. So this is new. I like Outback actually. Outback is actually... It's a guilty pleasure of mine. Outback is actually better. If you look at like Outback, Applebee's, TGI Friday, all those chains, I think Outback is the best one, right? Well, Outback is one that I've been to several times in the last five years. I hadn't been to Applebee's in 15 years. And the only reason why I did is they just opened the one right by the house and Katrina and I were over there were like, you know what? We haven't had... I haven't had Applebee's in 15 plus years. How about you? And she's like, you know what I mean either. She's like, well, let's... I said they used to have this like fajita thing when I was in high school that I used to like. So let's go check it out. I mean, of course, the menu is completely different. There's nothing on there that's the same. Not necessarily Mexican food. And they do fajitas. They do. Thank God. They do an incredible job with the pictures. The pictures look amazing. We're flipping through the pages and I'm like, I'm so glad. It sizzles. It really sizzles. I'm so glad we came here, right? They mix different cultures like fajita marinara. Delicious. Burger meat. Chinese chicken, sirloin steak salad. Even the way they, some of the meals they put together, very like ketogenic friendly, like they had meals like that. They didn't label it that way, but they're organized that way. And I'm like, you know, they're very up and up. It's competition, dude. It's competition does that with businesses. They have to do that or they will get their asses kicked. It's an experience. So they're constantly investing in how to make the experience better, how to get more, how to draw more people. I'll say started with balloons and buttons. It did. I'll tell you what, as a parent, when I go to a restaurant like that, and if I'm going with my girlfriend, I have my kids, and it's just hectic and stuff. Two bucks to fucking have your kids stop freaking out, play video games. It's fucking worth it sometimes, dude. You know what I mean? You're at a restaurant. I feel you. Kids can get, especially when they're young, like you just want to go sit in the car. Just manage yourself. Well, especially since the way they did it, I thought was clever. So I would be so anti, here's a game, kids, because it's no different than me. No, it's interactive. Everybody's very interactive. And I thought that was the smart part was, okay, now you're getting clever with this, because just handing the kid the screen and saying, you know, play your bird, you know, angry birds for fucking two hours. You know what I'm saying? Where he's just staring at it. But you have to interact with other people on the table. Like a board game. Yes. I thought that makes a lot more sense. I thought that was clever. We've even been struggling with that, because the kids, for the first time, my youngest like flew down to San Diego. And my wife, she had both of them by herself. And so the whole, I know, right? And the whole thing was like, I don't just want to shove an iPad in front of their face. You know, like they're going to have to like, you know, I'm going to get them books. I'm going to get them like some stuff so they could play interact with each other. And which I give her credit for, I would have been just like, here, you know, watch, watch this TV show or whatever. But that's been the big thing. It's like, we have to try and minimize. That's like a constant battle, trying to minimize the exposure to this stuff. Because all their friends, all they do is just like glue that shit right in front of their face. Well, literally, right now, the virtual glasses. Oh my God, no! Like literally, that's the thing now, right? Yeah, like this weekend, I was at my aunt's house for Father's Day. And so I told my kids no electronics. Like I was over it. And the only, the reason why I say that isn't necessarily because I think, oh, it's bad. I actually witness changes in behavior in my children. And if they stay on a computer or an iPad or a phone or whatever for longer than, I don't know, 30 minutes or so. They turn into chimps. They get, they change. Like emotionally, like they're less interactive. They get snappy or irritable. Especially if I say, hey, turn that off for a second. We need to eat lunch or whatever. And so then I can see the change. So I said, we're not, we're turning them off and we're not bringing them. So we went to my aunt's house. So they're like, we're bored. And I'm like, deal with it. Like I had to be bored when I was a kid. Like figure it out. So my daughter finds a magnifying glass. So I'm like, this is great. Like have you guys ever used a magnifying glass? Have you burned ants before? Exactly. That's the first thing I thought it right. You burned some shit. Have you burned some ants? So my 11 year old son takes it outside, comes inside after about three minutes all frustrated. He goes, I don't know how to do it. And I just realized that my 11 year old boy, does not know how to use a magnifying glass to burn shit, which is a travesty. That is something every child should... Please tell me you taught him. Are you kidding me? I know. So me and my brother went out there and showed them what to do. And so they're out there lighting leaves on fire and doing a bunch of shit. The important stuff. So I mean, it is, I don't know. Is it better? Yes, of course. Now do you guys set like, no phones at the dinner table? Are there like certain rules like areas of the house or times of the day that you guys set parameters for your kids? Like, how does that work? Well, I know Sal's on a different sort of level because his kids are older, you know? And so for me, I basically can, like I don't even let them like have phone access, except for, you know, some special, like they earn it, you know? But yeah, it's going to become a thing where they're going to have their own. So I'm going to have to deal with that. It's a weird, it's a weird situation because it's an important part of life. If you don't stay in touch with the advancements of technology, how to use them, how to be quick on them, then you may be at a disadvantage when you get employed or you may be at a disadvantage because you don't know how to use YouTube or like, I know little kids who are seven, eight years old who know how to post videos on YouTube, how to create content, how to edit shit. And I see that and I think to myself like, that's got some actual benefit to their potential future for their company. So there's that, but there's also, this is where I place it in this category, right? Like in modern times, humans have to learn how to manage their food intake, which is, this was never a problem before. We didn't have to manage it because it managed us. Like you didn't have food, so you didn't eat. And when you did, you ate it and the food that was available was probably healthy for the most part because it was natural, you hunted it or you know, you gathered it. So you never, and you didn't have to manage activity either because you were active. It wasn't like, oh guys, we need to go to the gym. Like, could you imagine taking someone from 10,000 years ago and telling them, I go to a place to purposely lift heavy shit and run in place and I'm not building anything. They'd be like, I got a bunch of rocks and wood back here. You want to move that shit for me? Well, so I compare the two and I compare technology with that in the sense that we have to learn how to manage the amount of time that we spend in front of it. And it's just a new problem. You know what I'm saying? Well, the thing you also look at it is like a hierarchy, right? So there's plenty of time for them to get fluent with technology. There's, you know, a critical window of like capturing their attention to find the importance of physical activity, movement, and thinking for themselves. Instead of always like my go-to instinct is to then search and, you know, I'm going to ask Google everything. Like, no, use your brain. Think about this critically and think for yourself. Don't think based off of like what the forum or, you know, your friends on Facebook or, you know, don't let all those people influence you right away. I want, like, I want the kids to critically think about things and then apply. Well, this is very important because we are just, where was I just reading this about, you know, you got to be careful because you get these major confirmation bias with getting your information through searching online. Yes, we actually talked about that. Yeah, I remember you bringing it up. So, I mean, you get somebody who's, you know, going for their information from Facebook articles all the time. Well, you, what you don't realize is you're being fed the shit that you want to be fed all the time, which isn't necessarily always the best. Well, it's already so- Article for you to be reading, right? And even besides that, like, I don't remember anyone's phone number. I don't know any, but I don't know your guys' phone. I talk to you guys every day. I don't know either one of your phone numbers. It's a little bit alarming. The only phone number I know is my parents because that was the one that I've had forever and my ex-in-laws because that's the one they had. I don't really know anybody's phone number. I use directions and I have a terrible sense of direction anyway. So maybe this is a bad example, but I'm pretty sure a lot of people can connect with the fact that they use their GPS to go places that they go all the time because they don't really pay attention. Yeah. So it's already happening. It's already happened to the point where we don't think for ourselves because things are thinking for us. Is that a good or a bad thing? I think there's good and bad to it. As far as like, you know, kids being stuck in front of computers and iPads and stuff like, we just have to manage it. Like we manage everything else. Like we have to manage our food intake and our other forms of consumption. That's another monster really. And really it boils. When it comes to your kids, I always do this for myself. I always look at myself. So when I see my kids and I see them stuck on their phones or iPads or whatever, and they're on there for two, three hours, I look at me. I look at myself and I think, well, why am I not doing something with my kids? Because at the end of the day, I'm just being lazy. I just want them to, here, I need to work or I want to do something. You go occupy yourself. I do these other things. And it's like, you know what? Go do something with your kids. And when I do stuff with my kids, they complain for the first 10 minutes and then they have a blast. You know what I mean? So I just place it on myself. Well, here's a strategy that I just recently read that Justin, you can apply it. Sal, you're kind of fucked already. Is when a mistake that a lot of people do when they give their kids a phone, is they like do it for like a birthday or some of that. And they give them the phone versus giving them, instead of giving them the phone, it's your phone that they actually get to use. Because you're paying for it. You're paying all the bill. And one of them is- So you said the precedent. Exactly. You said the precedent right away that this is your phone that you allow them to use for certain things, whether it be for play or to research or just enjoyment, whatever. But at the end of the day, you bought it. It's yours. You're not giving it to them. You're allowing them to use it. And what happens, because what ends up happening for a lot of parents that, oh, here's, you know, happy birthday. Here's your iPhone 7 and the kids, they're so excited. Like, it's mine now. Now it's mine. And when you try and take it away or tell them no, it's like, how you can't do that? It's my phone, you know? And it's too late. You already gave it to them as a gift. So when that time does come and you present them with the phone, I mean, let's be honest, you're paying the fucking bill. You bought it. It really is your phone. For sure. Well, so something- I'm putting a pair of eyes in the corner. Yeah. I can always watch it. So something that I'm doing right now is because I was thinking about this. And first off, for my kids, I'm very structured with there. Like, they're not allowed to use their electronics during the week. It's only on the weekends. When I slip is when I'm busy and I let them use it and they'll stay on it for hours. Like, I've done it to where I have to do something so I'm really busy in the house. Yeah. And I'm doing something- It gets away. It's crazy. For like three hours. Yeah. And my kids will stay on there for three hours. I would bet that if I let them, and I just let them do their own thing, that they'd stay on it from morning till bed. All day long. 100%. Which is insane. So one thing that I did is, as you guys know, I'm investing in some home gym equipment. And there's a few motivations behind that. One of them is it's difficult for me to go in the morning when I have my kids because I have to drop them off at school or whatever. So I can't necessarily make the time. And I don't want to do it after work and everything because that's also a difficult time if I have the kids. I want to spend it with them. So I'm like, you know what? I'm going to put a gym in the garage. I like working out that way anyway. It's just something that motivates me. Can we talk about how important that is, like how you solve that? Because I feel like that is something that so many people use as a crutch of why you can't exercise at work. It's like, oh, I can't. I'm so busy. I have such a busy life. You've recreated your environment to now be more conducive towards you keeping your physical activity. Well, two things. First off, I value my exercise. I value it tremendously. It's a massive priority. It makes everything else better. It makes me healthy. I got better mood, all that other stuff. So it's something that I value very, very heavily. There's also the fact that we have all this space in our homes. And I was reading this fantastic article by Reason Magazine, and it was talking about how it was talking about putting things in perspective. And one of them is, for example, the average home in like the 1950s was less than 1,000 square feet, was two bedroom, was tiny. And the average home now is like 2,500 square feet, four bedroom. And most of that space is not used at all. And if they do these heat maps with phones, excuse me, with homes, where they watch where people congregate in houses, and you find that people really hang out in less than half of the house all the time. It was like 20%. Yeah, you got all these rooms that you don't use. And so I said to myself, look, I got all these rooms, and I don't have a massive house, but I'm going to put things that I'm going to use. I'm not going to have a fucking dining room because that thing ends up just sitting there looking nice, who cares. So I'm going to put a study or whatever something I'm going to use. And I have a garage that you can park your car on, but I really don't give a shit. Like, why don't I put gym equipment in there? And then of course, like you're saying, because I prioritize it, it makes it so that it's convenient. I can do it if I like to do it in the morning, get it done. And now I don't have to worry about, figuring out a different time. So I know it's going to happen very consistently. And I could see you do it. And I get to do it with my kids. So now my son, he's going to turn 12 soon. So perfect. That's the age that I really started getting into it. My daughter's already showing interest. She's only seven. And so what I'm going to do is twice a week, we're going to do family workout where we go in the garage. I'll do some workout stuff. I'll probably already have worked out in the morning. So it's not important for me to do my structure workout, but I'm going to work out with them and train them and make it kind of like this fun type of thing. We already did it. And I don't even have all my equipment. All I have right now is barbell and a couple kettlebells. And man, the kids were having a blast. And I get to do stuff with them. We get to do stuff together. It's family time. And I'm hoping to create a good connection and relationship with exercise with them so that they always remember good memories. Like, oh, I remember doing this with my dad and we had fun. We played music and it's not going to be super structured. It's literally going to be, let's do this, let's do that. Maybe we'll do some stretching and just get them used to being around that kind of stuff. That's rad. I've done a little bit of that. Obviously, my kids are a little bit younger, but my oldest is seven. So, you know, got them like, the only time I've been able to work out at my house is with the kettlebells. So, I'll usually do that out in my backyard. And my boys both showed a lot of interest in that. And so that's when I bought those like plastic ones for them. And so without fail, every time I go out there and I start just throwing it around and working on moves and working out like, you know, my oldest somewhat, he'll at least get outside and he'll either jump on the trampoline or he'll ride his bike or then he'll work out with me or whatever. But my youngest will grab, you know, one of those kettlebells and he just looks at me and he tries to do everything that I do. It's hilarious. It's great. It's excellent. So, hopefully it'll be, my garage gym will be done in like a couple weeks and then we'll start that whole process. Yeah, it's awesome. Super blast. And then the other thing that I did this weekend that I was kind of a, over the last couple years, I'm really realizing how much I enjoy going out in nature and I'm also realizing how much we're surrounded by it here in Northern California and just how I've completely ignored the fact that within an hour drive, there's like incredible things to be seen and experienced. And I'm just like, man, I'm gonna, this is what I'm gonna do with my kids. Like on weekends, it's so easy. I could drive an hour. I just came back. I went to the Pinnacle National Park this weekend. Fucking amazing. Like my kids would have a blast climbing boulders and doing shit like that. So I'm gonna start making that something that we do and it's cheap. It's an hour away, drive over there, spend a weekend there, come back. Yes, you come up to, there's trails right behind my house. I took, because it was so hot, like my go-to is to go down to the creek. And we went down there and went creek walking and then we stacked rocks in the creek and made a whole day out of it. It was pretty fun. Excellent, excellent stuff. Easy. Bring on the birds! Maracoffee is the only coffee that is infused with all natural nutrients for a cleaner, calmer, and more focused buzz without the crash. Click the Chimera link at mindpumpmedia.com and input the discount code, Mindpump a check out for 10% off! It's the motherfucking quaw! The eagle has landed! All right, our first question is from Aaron Jean Fitness Fiend. What do you guys think about the new studies? What do you guys think of the new studies? Saying it's unhealthy to consume coconut oil? If so, what do you guys use to cook with his dead? This is on fire! Holy shit! On the forum right now. Did they lose their mind? This is not just on the forum, dude. This is being shared everywhere and it is the American Heart Association that is coming out with some information. The American dinosaur information. Can they not make up their mind or what? What's going on now? So, here's the... I haven't even read this article. I can't talk too much shit. Go ahead and enlighten me here, sir. In a nutshell, here's what they're saying. Saturated fat raises cholesterol. Cholesterol is bad. Therefore, coconut oil is bad and butter is bad. That's it, end of story. What they did is they went back... By the way, I feel like I'm in 1970 again. Yeah, I was gonna say... Because they're also saying it's a good idea to replace these natural, minimally-processed fats like butter, coconut oil, those types. With vegetable oils, including the highly-processed and engineered oils like corn oil. They actually said this like... And margarine! They actually said it might be a good idea to replace... Margarine, yeah. Coconut oil with... Let's make margarine have a comeback. Margarine in coffee. Which is insane. Here's the thing with saturated fat. One thing you need to understand is it's not... Saturated fat isn't a healthy type of fat. And it's not a unhealthy type of fat. It's all context, okay? Consuming saturated fat is not unhealthy. If all you consume is saturated fat, you might have a problem. Just like if all you consume is anything else, you're gonna have a problem. What they did with this is the American Heart Association went back and went and referenced the same fucking studies in the 1960s that they've been using to give us this low-fat hypothesis, which has A, done nothing. Nothing to slow the rate of heart disease at all. It has done nothing to reduce obesity. It hasn't done anything to help us. And in fact, heart disease... If you look at heart disease and mortality, it's gotten better over the last couple decades. But it's... You can almost 100% attribute that to... New medical procedures like when they go in and they put stints in your arteries and stuff like that. Like these are relatively new processes that have gotten really, really good. So people who have heart attacks now and survive, the risk of getting into the heart attack is much lower. And it's because of that. They're saying, and again, they're also saying that eating a diet that's low in saturated fat and replacing it with all these vegetable oils is as healthy as taking a statin, which is another insane statement to say because statins themselves, except for a few situations, has no evidence of helping. And there's a lot of evidence that it can cause problems. As far as cholesterol is concerned, if you do consume a lot of saturated fat, your total cholesterol number will go up. But that includes good cholesterol and bad cholesterol. However, the bad cholesterol, the LDL cholesterol, it's super simplistic to call that bad cholesterol. So when people say LDL is bad, you want to lower LDL, that is such a general statement. Super general and super, it's oversimplified. LDL particles are not all the same. You have the very dense small ones that are very inflammatory. And then you have these bigger fluffier ones that we're finding not only have no, that really don't cause problems, but in fact have some protective effects when it comes to things like cancer and for immune system, for immune system. So having too low of LDL may be bad for you for disease later on. There's also studies, and this is kind of established that people with high cholesterol in older age tend to live longer because low infection rates and lower cancer risk and lower depression. Like low, low cholesterol, your risk of depression and cancer actually goes up. So it's like this super simplistic view of what's going on and for them to release these statements and then to immediate distance. Why now, what is it, what's your theory doubling down on? Yeah, what is your theory on this? I want to look and see where the money is coming. I want to see the money. I want to see why, what is the motivation behind this? The cholesterol, the whole cholesterol hypothesis, as we know, is totally oversimplified. There are societies and cultures with cholesterol numbers that would make a Western doctor shit his pants who don't have heart disease or issues. Now, do you- So it's just a horrible thing to say that coconut oil is bad for you, it's all context. And here's a rule of thumb that seems to be proven time and time again. If you eat things, if you avoid things that are heavily processed and engineered, you're a lot better off. So if you take coconut oil, which is a minimally processed fat, butter, lard, like minimally processed, it doesn't take a whole lot to make those fats. And you compare them to soybean oil or corn oil, which require quite a bit of engineering and product. You can't take corn oil or corn and through smashing it, just make corn oil. There's a lot of processing that is involved with making it. You compare those two and corn oil has got a lot of established problems. Now, if you replace your saturated fat with corn oil, will your total cholesterol numbers go down? Yes. Does that mean you're healthy? No. It just means your cholesterol went down. If you take a statin, your cholesterol will go down too. Does that mean you're healthy? Not necessarily. And by the way, the majority of people that go into, that have heart attacks, have normal cholesterol levels. A majority of them, where people will go in, they'll have none of these red flags that we normally would look at. And they've got heart disease and inflammation in their artery. So I think it's getting sensationalized because we've been hearing for so long now that coconut oil is like this miracle oil, which I think is ridiculous also. So that now that the opposite is coming out again, so what I was going to say was that it makes me think that this is kind of the counter to the big ketogenic movement and the butter in your coffee movement. Like we've been now on this for about, I don't know, what, three, four years maybe? Maybe a little bit longer? Maybe 10. That long? Yeah. Ketogenic diet people? I don't think so, bro. Well, the... And butter in the coffee? Well, you know why? Because I've been really deep in the wellness side and the wellness people have been saying, have been preaching coconut oil for a little while. How long is bulletproof? But yeah, your time has had existence. Yeah, bulletproof is like five years. Yeah, I'm talking about bulletproof ketogenic because sure, coconut oil, that has been around for a long time and people talking about the benefits of that. But I'm talking about now we're starting to go to this extreme where we have these diets that are saying nothing but fat really. And now you've got these people that are following this ketogenic diet that are going, that are eating butter and bacon for all of their meals all day long. And is this a counter to that? Which is what I felt was my concern when I went through it is that I'm a guy who's very aware of this stuff and I found it challenging for me to have a good food rotation. So if I'm the average person who's hearing all this information, like, oh, ketogenic diet, anti-cancer. Oh, it's great for this. Oh, it's great for that. Yeah, you can have bacon and butter again. This is awesome. Now everybody's doing it because they've heard all these great things about it. But then just like always, we take something a little bit of good that we find in science and we go fucking bananas with it. And now you've got people that are literally, you know, taking spoonfuls of coconut oil and butter and bacon and that's primarily all their calories that they're consuming every day. That can't be ideal. I just look at it as like another way that like this machine, this marketing machine, can sway the herd sort of back into a direction where now like question this. And so they want you to question the fact that maybe that diet, like there's issues with it. And now let's all move back to our old pyramid where it's all about grains and breads and all these things being the base and the majority of what you're going to consume. And it's like, you know, the sad reality is they're probably going to influence like 80% of the population with just shit like this because they're an established organization that people believe in still. I, my trust in the American Heart Association and government guidelines for nutrition is shit. I have zero, I have very, very little trust in them. And I'm basing it on just objective history. Like look at what they've been recommending this entire time. Look at where the health of the country is. Look at the types of, you know, the low fat hypothesis has been pushed on us for a very, very long time and health hasn't been getting better. And again, when it comes to things like cholesterol, you, there's a lot of people, quite a bit. And I'm most positive it's a majority if not a large percentage of people who have their first heart attack don't have cholesterol issues. So for me, it's just, this is crazy. It's crazy information for me, for people to believe some of this stuff. My advice is always, and you also, by the way, consider this, individual variances are pretty dramatic. There are differences from person to person, meaning you can have someone that eats a diet that's very low carbohydrate and high fat and they're going to do exceptionally well and then you have someone else that'll eat that exact same diet. And they're not going to do well at all. Rob Wolf talks about in his book, why or to eat, how people will have a, some people will have a sharper insulin spike with oatmeal over a cookie. And because there could be some immune response going on or whatever, that's a theory. And this is the end of all diets. Like let's be honest, like I just read that, what's coming out in the future here really soon that just got leaked is, you know, there's rumors that even the Apple Watch will have a continuous glucometer inside it. So now we're going to be able to really assess like what's going on after you consume these foods. And it's going to vary quite a bit. And now people are going to have way more intelligence to apply to their eating decisions. I also, it's also important to consider- That's kind of shit on every diet. Yeah. Oh. Information like this can take a fucking vaccine. And it's also important to consider that what may be good for your body right now may not be good for your body tomorrow. It's, it changes. It really does. And if, you know, if you're questioning that, like think about like all the foods that you felt great eating, you know, at some point now, they don't work with you so well. I mean, your body changes too. The human body evolved that way. I mean, we didn't eat the same thing every single day. And it was likely that we were long periods of time when we didn't have food. And there were periods of time when we hunted an animal and we had all this meat and organ and fat. And so that's what we ate until we ate that, until it was gone. And then there was long periods of time where all we had were roots and seeds and nuts. And oh, and now we're near the coast. And so we're finding fish and algae and whatever. So I was just talking about that with my wife too. Like back in the day, you'd have to go to the butcher to see, you know, like what kind of meat options you had. And then also like in the grocery stores, it was whatever was in season. Now everything's in season because they've manufactured and engineered it that way. But it's not, it's not like you don't rotate. Like you're not on this like rotational type eating schedule which is, you know, critical for us for health. And, you know, can foods be heavily processed and engineered and still be very healthy for you? I definitely think that's possible. The reason why I don't- Of course, when you come, especially when you compare it to a different food, right? Well, the reason why I don't- This or that. I say typically to stay away from it is because we're so far from truly fully understanding the just the complexities of the human metabolism and how it interacts with foods and how, you know, things operate in the body because we still have very little understanding. I mean, we understand things on a very basic level that for us to engineer foods and then say, based on the parameters that we understand, this is good for you, is idiotic because we just don't know. We really, really don't know. Based on what we understood not that long ago, a sugar-free, you know, food would be good because it's low calorie and sugar-free but now we know certain things about artificial sweets. Egg whites only, you know. Exactly. Again, so with this particular thing here, does this mean now we're going to go back to eating egg whites? And remember how they said, don't eat egg yolks. It's super bad for health. And they came back and said, oh, now what shows that people eat whole eggs? I mean, you know- Actually, there's a lot of nutrients in the yolk. What about milk? You know, full fat milk, there's studies now showing that non-fat milk and people consume lots of non-fat milk, have higher risks of Alzheimer's and diabetes and all these other issues and that people consume full fat milk don't have those issues. There's also a lot of data that you have to comb through and understand where to, if you go back, I don't know, 10 years ago, right, or 15, 20 years ago and compared people who ate a diet that was high in saturated fat to those who ate a diet that was low in saturated fat, you would have to control for so many factors because 20 years ago, the people who avoided saturated fat were probably following the advice of the government, but they were also probably health-conscious because that's what they thought was right, right? They thought, I need to avoid saturated fat because I'm been told it's bad for me and I'm a very health-conscious person. Now, health-conscious people do a lot of things that are good for them. Also, they may be more active. They may be eat less. They're probably less likely to be obese. So if you compare those people with people who ate a lot of saturated fat who 20 years ago, if you ate tons of saturated fat, you're probably not health-conscious because you don't care, right? Because you hear all this information about saturated, but you don't care. So you probably also don't exercise. Well, and you could take it. You probably overeat. Yeah. And you compare the two and now you're going to have this kind of interesting result. It's no different than the studies on coffee that we were reading years ago that said that coffee caused cancer. Well, people who drank a lot of coffee also smoked cigarettes like crazy back then. They didn't control for that. And you could take it out of context and take food groups that are red meat or whatever that's more inflammatory because of the saturated fats that they promote with that. Whereas the inflammatory aspect of it, it will help to promote other types of nutrients and health that you're going to get specifically from that. And we're just so adverse to this whole inflammatory concept to where instead of just working out, like we're going to go through a period where we're getting the new sort of stimulus that's going to create a change in the environment and then we're going to recover and we're going to get all the benefits on the recovery. Well, they're not inherently inflammatory, but you'll also hear things like this study shows that people who consume more meat have a higher risk for cancer or have, but they don't control for processed meat. Like they put hot dogs and lunch meats all in that category. Half America is doing that, dude. Fucking bologna and hot dogs. I'll take bologna sandwiches and fucking hot dogs. That's most of the meat. You can't compare that to a fucking grass-fed beef, dude. Come on. Bologna, dude. That's the old mystery meat. Or how about this, like, oh, people who eat lots of vegetables have these particular health problems and they're not controlling for ketchup and freaking pizza sauce. Those are considered vegetables. You see what I'm saying? So it's very difficult to control for all these things. The best studies that I could, that I would direct people to are studies of culture. That's what I think you should do. I don't think you should go and do these questionnaires and shit because, number one, people report super inaccurately. Number two, if people don't know they're in a, if people don't, if there's no placebo, then people can report differently. There's all these different factors. We don't control for other factors. Just go to different cultures. Look at old cultures. Look at the blue zone studies where people live the longest. Look at what they're eating. You're going to see a wide variety of diets, but what you're going to find is very no processed food and nobody eats a shit ton of food. Those are the two most common things that they eat. And everybody's pretty damn active. And people are active on a daily basis. So, as far as the studies saying, don't eat coconut oil, it's bad for you. And don't eat butter, it's bad for you. It's all about context. And don't replace those things with highly processed vegetable oils. That's my advice at least. Quick commercial break, you guys. We keep getting asked all the time, how can I support the Mind Pump family? Here's one of the best ways you guys can. You guys love that Chimera coffee that we have. Chimera coffee with a K. You go to chimeracoffee.com, put in the discount code Mind Pump for 10% at the checkout. Also, if you guys want to know how I have this luxurious beard and you want one too, go to bigtopbeardcompany.com, put in the discount Mind Pump again, but this time for 33% off. Also, if you guys have not tried Ben Greenfield's new bars out, they're fantastic. If you want some, go to bengreenfieldfitness.com forward slash naturebite, put in the code Mind Pump and get 10% off. Go check it out. KC and Stash, while going through any protocol and it states to do three sets of two to five reps, could you potentially do six sets of one or five sets of two? Would you have the same effect? That's a good question. I thought this was interesting because this gets into programming and how we phase maps and the purpose behind all that. I wish you would have used a different extreme analogy because those are close. The difference between six singles versus five doubles is probably a lot less than comparing spreading out one set of 20 reps versus three sets or four sets of five. So you get closer to an aerobic effect that way. Exactly. And that's what I meant by that. Well, you know what though? This may actually be good because that's more obvious, right? So if I did like comparing one, so what this person is doing is they're looking at the total volume. So six sets of one rep means you've done six reps and that's your total volume of work. Five, three sets of two reps is fewer sets, but you're still doing six reps. So same volume. The weight may be different though, right? Because the total weight lifted with the six sets is going to be maybe higher because it's one rep versus the two, but it's pretty close. Now, here's the thing you want to consider. There, and this is why exercise programming is much more... It's a different nerve response. It is, and it's much more complex than people realize. Yeah. There's a lot of things to consider here. There's the multiple set factor here where if you're doing lots of sets of one exercise, you get a different adaptation than doing different exercises for the same kind of body part. So for example, if I did six sets of bench press for my chest versus, let's say, three exercises, two sets each of different exercises, I'm going to get different response. Same total sets, I guess, for my chest, but I'm going to get a lot of CNS adaptation for a particular movement with the six sets. Like, it's all bench press. So I'm going to get really good at that movement. And to think that in more simpler terms, it's just like, you know, practicing a movement, right? You're doing the same thing over and over. Your body's going to get better at it with more practice, right? Thinking of it like greasing the groove, right? Exactly. There's benefits to doing both of them. They're not the same at all. In fact, I would recommend trying either one and sticking with one for a little while to see how your body responds. So this is what he's talking about. And I don't know if he's following maps right or not. But what I do, and we talk about this a lot on the show, how, you know, we're always modifying even our own programs, right? I don't follow any of the programs to an exact T anymore because I'm always playing with variables like this, for example. So let's say this is, I just ran through maps red and I've gone all the way full circle through it and I decide, hey, I want to go back through it again and see, like, my strength and see if I'm up or down or whatever. And this time around, instead of doing two to five reps, I may work singles. So this is how I'll intermittently play with different strength phases. So if I'm in a strength phase and I'm going to be doing lower reps, I may, and I've posted this on my Instagram before and maybe this is what has posed questions like this is that I'll be running doubles. And that's kind of the protocol that I'll follow for this time around of hitting phase one. And then the next time I might run singles or triples or I'll actually run the protocol all the way to a five rep and do that. So these are ways that you can manipulate. They are definitely not the same. I mean, you're going to get different adaptations. Both have their benefits like Sal saying. And honestly, I always tell people to lean towards the one that you do the least. So if I tend to gravitate because you get a lot of guys that are like power lifters that love to hit your PRs, they tend to chase the singles and doubles all the time because they want to see these PRs. So they're constantly doing that. That guy or girl would probably benefit the most from pushing it beyond into the five rep range for their sets versus the singles. And the reverse is true. I think the one thing that I would caution is as you get down and you decide to do singles and doubles, there now your risk factor goes up also because now your load that you're moving is going to be naturally a much higher weight, right? So you're doing, you're moving a really heavy weight. It's more of a fast twitch response that you're seeking. So this is a different like nerve response that you're even seeking from your central nervous system. So you got to kind of prioritize what your goal is. And after that, you sort of evaluate like the more reps you add and the different response and this different signal that you're trying to apply. So now the signal gets sort of muddied or you lean more into the direction of like the slower response, the one that's more geared towards endurance. So here's what I love about resistance training for long periods of time is that in the beginning when you first get started, my recommendation is always find a good program. Of course, I'm going to recommend maps because that's one that I can stand behind and just follow it as it's laid out. But as you continue training and you start to get better and understand the movements and kind of understand your body, boy, you can have a lot of fun with these kinds of variables. And each time you change a variable, my recommendation is to stick with that new change for at least a couple of weeks to really get in that adaptation or that new adaptation that you're trying to train to see what the effects are. Because if I switch from three sets of two reps to six sets of one rep, and I just back and forth and mess around, I don't really, I'm not really adapting to that new stimulus. And I don't really know what it's doing. To my body because I'm mixing up so many different things. So if you end up doing this for yourself, do it for like two or three weeks, stick to that new protocol. Do it for the whole phase. I mean, if you're following maps, I would recommend if you decide you're going to change that and go, I'm going to run singles and do all of the phase one like that. And then what I would love to do is when you come back, you want to do an extreme difference in the same type of phase that we've laid out. You, the first say like, last time I did phase one, I did singles, real heavy singles, doubles, never more than doubles through that phase. Then I come all the way back through through maps, come back around. Now I go to five, but not only do I go to five, but now I'm going to fuck with tempo too. So I'm going to go to five, and then I'm going to like take my my eccentric motion like four to six seconds. So you're still in a similar phase, but now I'm not only am I going to manipulate weight and reps, I'm also going to fuck with tempo and talk about a total different adaptation in a similar phase. These are the type of things that I think as you as you progress in your programming and you've been doing it for a long time, you start playing with these different adaptations within the phase. And that's why that's why we have a template that like takes you through that whole process. I mean, once you get really good and you've solidified that template and it's something that's hardwired, you know, now you can do exactly what Adam's talking about, like adding like tempo, you know, different variables in there. I'd like you can get a little more creative once you know how your body responds and then when it's appropriate to switch it up again after that. It's this is, for me, I love questions like this because I don't think people truly appreciate the complexity with when it comes to programming workouts. Like for example, when we go off and we try to design a new maps program that we are going to try to apply to the masses, there are so many variables. We actually, we sit and we debate and discuss for, you know, two or three days straight, like seven a.m. to like midnight or later because you have to consider all the variables, not just within that workout but how it influences the next workout, how that phase influences the next phase, muscular development, the tempo and how that works and how they communicate with each other because each exercise within the order and the tempo and the sets and the reps and then those workouts with the other workouts and those phases with other phases and the order of them, they all communicate with each other and the wrong programming is like throwing a wrench into the machine and once you kind of get it and really you get it through experience and you may not be able to get it to train other people unless you do this professionally for a long time but after a few years, it doesn't take very long, two or three years of really being consistent, you'll be able to kind of get it for yourself, at least for yourself, you'll kind of figure this out. If you really approach your training objectively and you take your ego out of it, you can have a lot of fun with all these different variables. Now, I want to stop you right there because I know there's somebody that's thinking while they're listening right now driving the car like, oh yeah, I've been training for a long time and I totally get it because I know what it takes to get myself in shape. Totally different. Yeah, totally different. I said you can. Yeah. Does it happen very often? No, and the reason is because- Because how many times have you guys heard this? Like, I know it works best for my body. Like, I know how to get myself in shape. I've been there before and getting yourself in shape is not, does not mean that you fully understand and grasp programming for you and the most ideal way that you should do that. Dude, I had a client once that I got into an argument with over this. We literally got in an argument. Well, what does it even look like? Because he said- Your skin here? Yeah, exactly. He said to me like, no, I know how to lose weight. I run. When I run, I lose weight. It's what I always do. I know my body. I know my body. And I watched him run and by no means am I a running expert, but I know, you know, pronation when I see it and I know how a foot is supposed to strike and I can see. And I'm watching him run. I'm like, no, no, no, no. Listen, running is not good for your body. For your body, right now, running is horrible. I know you've been doing it for so long, but that's probably why you have this issue, that issue and why you end up stopping and starting it again. And I had this whole argument with him, but it's because ego gets in and we equate weight loss sometimes with what works with my body. But if you're really objective, within a few years, you can get to this point and I'll tell you what, you can have a lot of fun. Here's something that I'm going to do. I'll let everybody, because I'm going to document this. So I'll put this on air, no problem. So I've got, like I said at the beginning of the show, I've got a bunch of gym equipment coming to my garage and it's very minimal, it's very basic, but that's the way I like to work out. And I'm going to play with- Basic bitch. I'm going to- Hashtag, just gave me another hashtag for you, basic bitch. He's such a basic bitch. I have, I've had an idea and a concept that I've wanted to do for a long time. I just didn't have the, I guess the means to do it. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to set up my gym and then I'm going to dedicate an entire day. So like eight hours. I'm going to dedicate eight hours to this. I'm going to pick three or four exercises and I'm going to, at the beginning of every hour, I'm going to go out and I'm going to do a moderately heavy single or double in these four exercises at the beginning of every hour for maybe eight to 10 hours. And what I'm basically going to try and do is I'm going to really try and get some crazy CNS adaptation out of this and see what happens to muscle strength and size. So I'm going to do this little experiment. Now my hypothesis is that if I do this every once in a while, I'm going to get some pretty incredible results within the day. Literally, I think what's going to happen is by the fifth hour, I'm going to feel very connected to my whatever exercise, my squat, my overhead press. I'm going to feel very strong. I'm going to keep intensity relatively, like I said, moderate. And in between that, I'm going to play with amino acids. I'm going to play with meditation. I'm going to play with foam rolling and really see what I can do with. And again, all I'm doing is I'm taking all these variables and having fun with them. And this is what's fully reset your CNS, like in between. Dude, I don't know what's going to happen. Like I've never had the time and the dedication and the equipment available. I'm not going to do that at the gym. You know what I mean? What am I going to do? Walk outside of my car, hang out, come back in it. But now I got in my garage. So I'm going to watch movies and shit in between and meditate and stretch. And this is where protein shake may come in handy or having my food planned out. I might do that with you once the new Star Wars comes out and we'll watch the whole series in between. Oh, shit. Yeah, bro. It'll be a Star Wars. But this is what you can do when you start to play with variables, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. Our next question is from Natural Health Warrior. How can you minimize muscle loss while regressing the intensity when trying to correct muscle imbalances? So what this person is referring to is let's say you train heavy, right? You're a heavy lifter. You're doing squats and deadlifts and overhead presses. And your goal is build muscle constantly. Build muscle, build muscle and strength. And you've identified now some imbalances. Hopefully it's not because you've hurt yourself, but maybe that's why. Maybe you're like, oh, shit. My shoulder hurts. I can't bench heavy anymore. My hip is bothering me from the squats. So now you have to regress your weight and intensity and maybe even eliminate some of those exercises to correct muscle imbalances. Inevitably, you're going to lose muscle. Now it's- I just went through this. You did. And it's not because, and I'll finish here and let you go because you had experience with this. You're not losing muscle because you're working on imbalances. You're losing muscle because you've taken your foot off of the throttle to constantly push- Yeah, your priorities are different. Push size all the time. Pedinology. So training muscle imbalances doesn't make you smaller. It's just that you were always so focused on building muscle and pushing that so hard that now you've taken your eye off of a little bit. Of course you're going to lose some strength in some muscle, but you are going to be correcting imbalances. Now the reason why this is okay is because then when you go back to trying to push muscle with better recruitment patterns, you're going to build more muscle than you had before. And you're going to build it in a balanced way without pain. So I'll defer that. There's a lot of other techniques you can apply to maintain intensity and increase that connectivity with the signal from your CNS where I feel like there's a lot of work that can be done even if you don't have as extreme of muscle imbalances to address them preemptively by phasing out of just constantly adding load to the body. So from the angle I look at it is sometimes we bring up like maps anywhere, or we bring up like a different body weight sort of technique focus where it's going to highlight a lot of these imbalances more by applying gravitational forces, by applying isometrics. You're going to understand where the dysfunction may be sort of underlying and then address them and then go back into your loaded situation and then you're going to have even more of a reinforced mechanics as you go into the lifts. You know, I think that it's pretty inevitable that you're going to lose during this process. And so there's a lot of psychological stuff going on here that especially if you're somebody who struggled with an insecurity of needing more muscle on your body like myself. So this is close to home for me. Like, you know, I will like to be a big guy, like especially being the skinny kid my whole life. And man, when I finally put it together and understood like I had control of this and I could build a muscular big frame with regardless of my body wanted to be that big or not, I fucking love that and I still love that. And so, but I also I'm also 35 going on 36 years old and I too have aches and pains and I don't move like I used to move when I was 20 years old. And so my priorities are shifting. And so I knew that it was time for me to go through this whole, you know, mobility kick where I purely dedicated my training around moving better and getting reconnected to my body and like my feet like crazy. It's crazy to trip on this. So we were out at the pool yesterday and I was telling Katrina, I have like, and they're not new, but they're exposed now veins in my feet because of all the exercising and barefoot stuff that I've been doing. You get any more vascular feet? I do. They're just more connected, dude. Yeah, no, of course, right? You need to share how. Pumping more blood. You need to share just how disconnected you were with your feet. Oh yeah, no, it was extremely disconnected. Like you couldn't move your toes. Yeah, no, I couldn't move my toes. I definitely couldn't do short foot. You know, I had excessive pronation in both sides, one side really bad. And I wish we did a before and after video because it's dramatic improvement you made. I mean, if you've been watching my Instagram since the beginning, you've seen it because I've been sharing. I mean, my squat, I do this all the time. Like I still have some old videos of me squatting and you can see my mechanics when I squat versus when I squat now. Like it's fucking night and day difference. And that was a huge process. And it was a huge struggle for me because I knew that I was going to lose muscle because I knew the amount of attention that this needed. It's not as simple as I'm going to go buy MAPS Prime and every once in a while, I'm going to do some of these movements, these guys tell me I should do. It became the priority. And it's not just that. But did you lose a lot of strength though? Yeah, I did. Well, like a little bit, but I mean, going back to apply it. Well, but you got to explain though, why you couldn't lift heavy while you were doing this. Yeah. And let me finish. So here's the breakthrough that you got to get through to with this is if you truly are trying to fix that and that's a priority, then you kind of need to just let that piece go. That's an insecurity of yours. It's an insecurity that you need to hold on because let me tell you something. I'm already back on my kick right now of eating more, training like a bodybuilder while I'm still incorporating a lot of my prime and mobility stuff. And I'm putting muscle on like fast. Like the body remembers that hard work that you put in. It's crazy. It's hard to see new records, right, for yourself. So let's say, and we'll use Mike mine because I tracked this all the way. So 208 pounds of lean body, lean muscle on my body is a lot. I probably came all the way back down to about 180 something pounds of lean muscle. That's a lot of muscle. It's a ton of muscle. It's scary that I lost all that. But it's coming right back on. And I'll shoot up to 208 and lean body mass really quick. Now getting to 210, 215, that will take more work, more volume, more consistency. But it's crazy how quick it comes back on once you've been there before. So letting go of that, I need to look a certain way. Or I worked my whole life to be 208 pounds of lean body mass. Nah, fuck that. Like I need to move better first. That's a priority. Right. But there's also this factor in that, because I know what people are thinking right now. They're thinking, well, if I have these imbalances, if I have these recruitment pattern issues, why can't I work on those issues and continue training heavy and squatting heavy? Well, the problem is when they conflict with the imbalances. That's what I want you to talk about because it's not just a time thing. It's not just a, oh, you don't have enough time. It's not a focus. It's so hard wired. Well, thank you. And so when you get back to these like staple lifts, like you're going through like a back loaded squat, for instance, your body, like as much as you want to think that you can manipulate that process, like whatever you're working on, imbalance wise, and I was trying to address with mobility, now when I go to add a significant amount of load, the only like driving mechanism that your body really, it's hard wired to do already, will overpower even your own mental capacity to try and control that. Well, an example was when I got hurt was, so I started getting really excited during the process because I was seeing lots of improvement in my imbalances and my mobility. And what is the first meathead side of me do because I want to get back to that muscle and squatting back to 400 pounds. Like I missed that. I'm messing with 135 or 135 on my back that doesn't look cool. You know, that doesn't look cool doing that in the gym when you're fucking six, three, two hundred seven pounds. Like, you know, when the chick next to you's out squatting you, like I get it, dude. But you're getting ass to grass, man. Yeah, so of course as now I'm getting down and ass to grass and I'm feeling better, I'm every week I'm stacking on a quarter, a quarter, a quarter, so I can hurry up and get there and sure as shit, I start pushing over 315. And that's all it took was, whoop, just a little bit off, but back to that old habit, pronated a tiny bit, then I strained my hip flexor on the other side and then that set me back again. And that was all ego driven, right? So you got to just be okay with that. It's not saying like, we can sit here and talk about, you know, like Justin's talking about incorporating like tension movements and this is where maps anywhere is awesome. And we can talk about all these techniques you can do to not lose muscle, but don't worry about it. Like don't fretting over losing three or five pounds of muscle, believe it or not, is not a big deal. You'll be blown away, what you will be blown away is how fast it comes back up. And if not watch, you're about to see me do it right now. And it just reminds me of when we get these clients that come in and like you want to like cater somewhat to their mental like where they're at. You know what I mean? Like you're trying to make sure that like they don't get like so mentally frustrated with that like right from the start that like you kind of get them into it. But like absolutely, that's an ego driven question in itself. Look, if you, I've used this analogy before and I love it. If you, all you've ever done on a computer is used your two index fingers to type, your hunting pack type, right? And that's all you've ever done. And you've been doing it for years. You could get pretty good at it, right? You can get pretty good at doing it. And then all of a sudden someone comes and says, no, no, no, no. Here's a technique. And once you get good at it, you'll fly past how fast you could type, but you got to use all your fingers and you need to practice. And so you spend one day practicing with all your fingers. And then the next day there's a race. And if you type faster than this particular number, you're going to win prize money. Well, guess what you're going to revert to? Your old way of doing it, because that's how that's what's hardwired and that's what you're best at. You're not comfortable. You're not good at the new way yet. So even though the new way is more efficient, it sucks for you. So when you're trying to correct an imbalance. That's an incredible analogy because that's exactly what it's like. And that's why don't worry about your record time of typing right now. Of course, you're not going to beat your record time that you did just six months ago doing the way you've been typing for fucking 15 years of your life. Practice the right way for a long time. And that's what you're seeing right now. And you'll move to voice dictation. This is why I'm sharing this right now on my Instagram is so you guys can watch this process. I do not want to lose my mobility, but now I'm heavily focused on putting on that. See now when you go, because you've done this now, this has been over a year, right? Now you can go and squat heavy. And your body's not going to revert to the old pattern because you've given yourself time to solidify it. And that's why some people may lose muscle. But here's the other thing I want to say about the losing muscle part. If you're pushing your body to the extreme with muscle and you go to correct imbalances, you have more muscle to lose than the average person. The average person right now listening, if you go and dedicate your- That's a good point because you're talking about a guy like me who's running anabolic, running anabolic. So when I say I went from 208 down to 180 something, you guys got to take all those factors into account. All of it. Like if you took the average person- It's going to be way less. If I took the average guy who lives way- Five, 10 pounds. Yeah, no big deal. Maybe, maybe five, 10, maybe 10 pounds, probably around five. And once I correct their imbalances and I reverse them, it'll come back on very, like Adam's saying, very, very quickly. But then you'll surpass your old stuff faster than you ever thought possible. And then all of a sudden you have no pain. So it's super fucking worth it. So if you're in this for the long, long haul, it's definitely worth doing this. Quick commercial break. Hey, people ask us all the time how they can support Mind Pump. Here's what you can do. You can go to www.brain.fm forward slash Mind Pump and get 20% off Brain FM for meditation or focus. You can also go to audibletrial.com forward slash Mind Pump and get a 30-day trial plus one free audio book. Lastly, you can go to www.getnatureblend.com forward slash Mind Pump and you will get a discount on Ben Greenfield's CBD product. Z-Raslin, is it physiologically possible to put on muscle mass naturally after the age of 30? Of course. Yeah, hell yeah. Look at Doug. Yeah, yeah. Have they not seen, have they not seen Doug's before and after that we took a few years ago? Yeah. I mean, for reals. Your body never. They just think that Doug's 29. Yeah. Yeah. Because he looks 29. He does. Thank you, Adam. He's really 65, though. Was I off a little bit there? Yeah, a little bit. He had a cane, but he started working out. No, I think you were like what, 48 or 49 in the before and after pictures? Yeah, 49, I believe. 49. And Doug's all natural. Dude, 100% natural lifetime. Never taken a sick, in fact, barely did anything aside from, you know, all the legal stuff, so barely did anything. You guys take creatine at least? Did you even do that? Yeah, I did that. Creatine, I think that was it. Accused of taking steroids. If you look at these before and afters, they're pretty dramatic. And really what it was is. Yeah, what a compliment. Really what it was is he went from poor exercise programming and his diet wasn't bad in the sense that he wasn't healthy. It just wasn't, you know, good in terms of getting lean. Changed his programming and his diet. And Doug actually also had some pretty good genes for building muscle. Although he thought he had bad genes, it was just his programming. And his body just responded very, very well. So that's his before and afters. Here's the thing. Your body never loses its ability to adapt. It definitely loses its capacity to adapt. In other words, explain that, yeah. A 60-year-old will have a lower capacity for total muscle mass and strength than they had when they were 30 or 20. But your body never loses its ability to adapt. In fact, the day that it does that, it means you're dead, you're dead. Your body now has lost its ability to adapt to anything and then that's when you pass away. As you get older, and I'm talking older, not 30, because that's ridiculous. I'm talking like advanced age, 70, 80. Maybe mid-60s, but usually 70 and 80. When you're lifting weights, a lot of what you're doing is preventing regression. But you can still improve a tremendous amount. I've had a lot of clients in their 70s who've had tremendous life-changing strength-building and muscle-building effects. And when I say life-changing, I don't mean like they've got six-pack now and they can go to the beach. I mean, Mrs. Johnson, who was walking with a cane, doesn't have to use anymore. Or Mr. Smith couldn't make his up his stairs and now he can, or he couldn't reach above his head to grab a glass from the top cupboard and now he can, or he couldn't do a squat without falling and now we can't like life-changing. Even just like muscle definition. I had a 75-year-old guy that trained with me and it was just, I honestly, I had like those same sort of thought process where I was just like, I just want to make sure that he's moving well and you know, he's got enough strength to kind of support him in his movement and his abilities to do stuff. And then, you know, like he even told me before, I was like, I really never did any weight training specifically, I just did calisthenics and things like that. You know, and so I actually started weight lifting with him, obviously very gradually, an increasing load, but like I was just like astonished at the type of muscle development that was happening with him. It was still there, it was a new stimulus. It was something that his body was adapting to and that was encouraging me. I was like, wow, at 75, you can still, you know, you can build. Did you know that mortality spikes with people after they retire? It's like, once they retire, the risk of death dramatically goes up and it's not because of their age, it's entirely because people stop, they stop moving, they stop having purpose, they'll stay at home and they don't, whatever, and you see their health really starts. You could seriously see that decline just in the posture once the shoulder is really, you know, protract and the head comes down and like it's just this, it literally physically looks like they're, you know, disintegrating. Now they're using the age 30 and this is why I laugh at that. The most fit, strong people that I know, that I've ever known in my entire life were over 30. They're the strongest. I set all my PRs after 30 that are my heaviest lifts. The women that I've known that are the most muscular and strong are after 30, maybe, and I don't think it's because over 30, there's some kind of magic that happens. So all man strength. Yeah. I honestly think it's because over 30, people tend to be a little smarter about their training and maybe they dedicate their time. Well, yeah, as you say, you're more connected. You're central. And that's where that, you know, you bring up the old man strength is, you're, it's the CNS side. I think that is really beneficial as you get older, you know, like comparing a young boy who's just learned or a girl who's just learning their body and these movements, they're nowhere near as connected as somebody who is, which is why I feel like sometimes you see these guys that don't even really lift weights, but they can pick up this rock that's like super heavy. And it's like, dude, this guy doesn't even lift weights in the gym, but he has this ability to do that because that's that central nervous system, that ability to connect and do that when he needs to, right? Or she needs to. So when do you guys notice when you guys are training clients? What age do you see where, like, let's say you're training someone for a very long time. When do you start to expect that they'll, they're going to lose performance and muscle? At what age do you guys start to see that? I don't, I don't, I don't know what you're saying because I don't think that ever happens. I don't have a, I've never had a call. You know what I mean though, like let's say you're training someone. What I can tell you is that I know there, I've seen the, how more difficult it is based off the age, right? So taking somebody between, and it's actually funny because early is just, so it's like this bell curve. So I think training a eight year old is extremely difficult because of proprioception and focus and body awareness. All that shit is so poor at that young age, right? And then as they sort of, The hardwired version where they've done all these horrific patterns they've established that you have to like unwind and unpack. So that's the, you know, 65 year old who's been, who's never done anything to fix them, right? So there's this bell curve, right? So when you're really, really young, it's really challenging to teach that body, to teach them how to connect and do all those things. As they start to get older into their teens, it's still challenging. They start getting into their 20s, a little bit more body awareness, especially if they have some sort of an athletic background because that typically speeds that process up for somebody or got into lifting weights like a salad in early years. So those people tend to be a little more connected. So in the, and then we start getting 25, 25 to 35 to me is like prime time. I mean, you are, you most men are fully matured by that time. Same thing with women. They've been connected to their bodies for 25 years of their lives. So their central nervous system at up to, I feel like 25 to 35 is like the, the peak of body responding, right? Then 35 to 45, still pretty solid, man. Most clients that I ever took on between 35 and 45, but what starts happening around that time is now the imbalances, like Justin said, start revealing themselves are way more apparent, right? So once, once you start hitting 35 plus, if you had bad, bad habits, you know, all the previous 35 years, now as a trainer, I've got a lot of issues I got to address before I can get to the cosmetic side of the business. I think you get away with a lot more when you're young. Well, yeah, you get away. I think to like your body, depending on like injuries or any of these things that have created these imbalances or even like pregnancy or, you know, things like this, that alters like hormone profiles and like, you know, your body just matures and it sort of operates off of a different preset. But I mean, there's still a way to then, you know, reintroduce like, you know, like hardwire these, these ways that were beneficial to you when you were younger. It just, it may take a, you know, a lot more work based off of how much you strayed away from. And here's the one, one thing you need to consider too is this, is that, so if I train an 18 year old guy, and we start lifting to put on size, right? He's going to put a lot of size on compared to if I trained him at 30, and I decided we're going to put on a lot of size. But this is the, here's the difference. 18 year old self is really skinny kid still, but he's going to put on size anyway. This actually happens to men anyway, between the age of like 18 to like 20, something years old. Yeah, animal. So it goes loud. You're just a, you're just a bigger dude. Like you run into like, and if you're listening, you're a kid, you're a ball of testosterone walking boner. You are a walking boner dude. It's like, you're always trying to tuck it in your, you know, in your pants. Yeah, exactly. And that's not like hitting things. So your testosterone really fucking takes off after about 14, 15 and peaks at 18. But you're at 18, you're not your biggest. When I see guys, and I meet them in their mid 20s, even without lifting weights, and this is just same activity level, you're just bigger. A man starts to mature and he just becomes on his own. So part of that muscle growth is you're kind of like, amplifying what's kind of happening anyway. You know, like I remember when I was 14 lifting weights, I mean, over one summer, I put on 15 pounds of lean body mass. I probably would have put on 10 anyway, if it's just eight more, because I'm 14 years old, just because that's what happens to the body. I mean, you watch these kids go from, you know, freshman year to senior year without lifting weights. Over the summer, they're just like, whoa, what happened to you? Yeah, it just kind of happens naturally. Testosterone levels do start to decline a little bit after 30, but if you're active, that slows down quite a bit. And here's something else that's interesting. When they compare active men in their 50s to active men in their late teens, early 20s, to testosterone levels, it is a little bit lower. Not that much, by the way, but it is a little bit lower. But their free testosterone actually goes up. So your total testosterone may go down a little bit, but free testosterone stays around the same if you're active. When the free testosterone is what's important. So at least for guys, there's less to worry about with this. Here's what I noticed. When I've trained clients for long periods of time, I don't start to see declines, and I'm talking about people who are pushing the limit, right? I don't start to see declines in strength until they start to get close to 50. Now, I will see declines in agility. That happens pretty quickly. Like an 18-year-old bounces around like a gazelle and a 45-year-old, no matter how much training is going to lose some of that, I think. But strength takes a lot longer. Strength and muscle take a lot longer to lose. Boxers have been saying it for years. Like old boxers will still hit you just as hard as they did when they were young. So yeah, when it comes to age, I tell you what, Arnold Schwarzenegger said it well, when people would ask him, am I too old to lift weights? And he would say, you're too old not to lift weights. Always one of my favorite quotes. So check this out. Go to YouTube and check out Mind Pump TV. We post a new video every single day. We do everything from exercise demos to discussions on controversial topics. We just posted one on fasting. We have some funny videos up there as well. It's a great resource for fitness and wellness. And it's constantly updated. And at some point, we may even post more videos at a more rapid rate. So it's one of those channels you definitely want to subscribe to. I want to add to that, too, because I just recently did a post on the forum because a lot of people don't realize how we organized it to help you, too. So when you subscribe to the channel, you can go to the home and there's a tab that says Playlist. And when you click the Playlist, you see that Doug has organized all these videos in specific categories that we address, like Squat Like a Pro or Shoulder Pain or Hip Pain or all these different topics. And then there'll be a series of five to 15 videos all on that topic. So if there's things that you're looking for that you need specific help in, we've categorized them in Playlist because, I mean, shoot, we already have almost 300 videos already that we've launched on YouTube. It's a free library. Yeah. Highly recommended, especially if you're obviously in the... And it's designed to complement the program. So once again, when we created maps, we agreed that we don't believe in this, this is the only way to run your program. Like we encourage people to modify... And it's a template to then improve and bring in other sources of quality information into there and other movements. Excellent. Also, if you want to ask us a question that we can answer on episodes like this one, the place to do it is on Instagram. You go to Mind Pump Media and you find the meme that says Q&A or QUA, Q-U-A-H and ask your question in the comments. Make sure you hashtag QUA. And if we like your question, we will make sure we feature it in one of these episodes. And you can also find our personal pages on Instagram, mine is Mind Pump Sal, Adam is Mind Pump Adam and Justin is Mind Pump Justin. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes Maps Anabolic, Maps Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.