 It orders me go. Hello everybody. Presumably we are live here on a Monday. We're back for Recovery Monday this episode 69. We've done this 68 times. This is the 69th time we've actually done this, which I'm kind of blown away by. So I can't wait to get to 100. We'll see what we do for the 100th. So welcome everybody. Hope everything is going well. I'm going to put the chat overlay up so that you guys can see each other as usual. Let me know where everybody is from. Let's see. I'm in Bradenton, Florida. Anyway, I hope everybody's doing okay today and we'll wait for the usual crowd to shuffle in. Hello B. So today we're going to talk about a really interesting topic, which is the difference between recovery and being recovered. It's one of those little nuance things. So we'll talk about that and we'll take some questions. We'll do all that stuff. Hello Brandy from Long Beach, California. What's going on? Hello from Long Island. Fellow Long Islander, Christine. Hello Marina. How are you? Mary Lisa, fake Canada. Yes, Mary Lisa is from fake Canada. That's where you're in Canada, but just barely. Katya is here from Russia. How's it going? Katya, I hope you're okay over there. Yeah. So we're going to talk about that. Before we do that, just a couple of quick reminders. If you are new to all of this and you're just sort of stumbling in, there is more than just these live streams. Go check out all the goodies on my website at theanxiestruth.com, especially all the podcast episodes. There's a ton of information there. So if you're hoping that I'm going to answer a specific question in this live stream and I don't, just head on over to my website and find all kinds of all the extra goodies, a couple of specific things. If you're interested in a little bit more of a deep dive on some things, I do have a bunch of courses and workshops that I'm rolling out. You can find those here at learn.theanxiestruth.com. And hey, Lisa. Hey, Jim. Hey, St. Petersburg and Wycombe in the UK. And this coming Friday, and if you're watching this on a replay, there is a replay available of this. I am doing this workshop with Jenna Overbaugh. You guys know Jenna. Most of you do anyway called empowered, approaching anxiety, courageously. It's kind of a deep dive into the idea of using courage and how to find it and where it comes from and what it means in recovery. So go check out all those goodies. Hello, Illinois. South Africa, you may be the furthest person away. Sylvia, welcome. You might win the prize here unless somebody rolls in from Australia or New Zealand and they are sleeping. So I'm guessing they probably won't be doing that. So let's talk about the difference between recovery and being recovered. And that might sound like a ridiculous thing to say, but rolls in from Nevada, not too far. Us Luridians have traffic anxiety. Hello, everybody. Good to see everybody today. So it might sound like a ridiculous thing to say that there's a difference between recovery and being recovered, but there is. And the reason why I wanted to talk about that today is because during in the recovery process, so recovery is a process, right? It's a process that we sort of go through. It's a journey. I can't believe I use the word journey. Like I hate myself for even saying that. But recovery is a process that we go through. And being recovered is sort of a state we achieve. Although the podcast I just recorded today, I kind of asserted that recovery is not a state of being, but whatever, you'll see that on Wednesday. And that one I recorded from a beach that I used to be afraid to go to. So I think it's a pretty good episode. So anyway, the recovery is a process that we go through. And recovery is essentially the process of changing our lives and what we do, like our behavior from behavior that's governed, governed almost entirely by fear where your decisions are based on fear. They're based on avoidance. It's based entirely on always caring about how you feel and what you think. You become really, really focused. And over time, we start acting not in terms of fear, but in terms of our values, right? So you may have heard me say that and other people talk about that stuff. And recovery is a process of moving behaviorally from fear based decisions to value based decisions and fear based behaviors and avoidance based decision behaviors to value based behaviors and decisions. So when we do that, we're essentially changing direction, especially if you've been involved with this for any length of time and you're struggling for any length of time, you have developed a series of habits that are based on following the fear that are based on inward focus that are based on always evaluating your body and your mind. They're based on avoidance. So you're changing those things. And that change of direction is really hard to make. So it comes in various stages. And we're going to talk about down the road, talk about that down the road, sort of the stages of recovery. I'm going to embellish on that a little bit, even though I did a podcast episode on that a couple of years ago, we're talking about the states of change and readiness for change. So you're basically changing what you do, right? So you're governed entirely by fear. You're making all your decisions based on fear based on how you feel. And you're starting to change that to make that change in the process while you're in the process of recovery. What I like to say is that we really often have to make a really hard left turn. I'm left handed. So I'll pick left, but you can pick right. I don't care. We're making a really hard turn, a severe turn that we normally wouldn't make like a non anxious person who doesn't have to go through the process of recovering from an anxiety disorder would make those hard turns and start to steer in a completely different direction. But we do that in recovery because we kind of have to. Let me give you a couple of examples. When we are in the process of recovery, especially the beginning, and we're learning to do this the new way, we often do things that seem to make literally no sense. And we're trying to steer really hard 180 degrees away from the way we used to do it. So I have been known to say things like positive self talk is bullshit. That sounds crazy, right? Like from a mental health standpoint, a helping standpoint, all of those things, a self compassion standpoint, that statement sounds ridiculous. But in the context of having to change direction, where your old direction is completely dictated by fear and how you feel, we have to take a radical turn in the other direction sometimes. I also do say things like stop checking in on yourself. I say things like stop trusting your gut. Like those three things alone have caught me a lot of heat over time. Like what do you mean self talk is bullshit? What do you mean I shouldn't trust my gut? What about my intuition? What about? So that is really weird. And when I say, you know, stop checking in with yourself because how much self help advice and mental health advice do you hear that has the phrase check in with yourself baked into it? Check in with yourself. See how you're doing. What do you need? Ask yourself what you need right now. But for anxious people who are stuck in the problems that we're always talking about together, that self check in becomes a compulsion that they can't control and it drives you boom directly into the ground and it keeps you pinned down there. So we often have to steer hard away from those old fear based habits that have gone way off the rails where sometimes adaptive coping strategies or healthy habits become unhealthy, repetitive, compulsive, fear based, avoidant, out of control off the rails, rituals. And so to get away from those, we have to steer hard in the other direction. So the reason why I say that the prop recovery is different than being recovered is because you normally once you get down the road and if you are a non anxious person watching this, I'm not sure why you wouldn't be watching this anyway. But and if you're a non anxious person watching this, fine. But if you get further down the road to recovery and you become sort of a recovered person air quotes, you wouldn't steer so hard in that direction anymore. So being a recovered person means, well, I can check in with myself. I can maybe trust my gut in the absence of any other, you know, good information. I can go with that a little bit. I might be wrong. My gut is wrong all the time. But I might trust it, right? I might check in with myself, I might engage in some self talk, because those are adaptive healthy things that human beings do. But for people in our situation, and you have to ask yourself this question, I can't, I can't know if you're doing this or not. Have those things become problems? When they have become problems, we have to steer hard away from them while we're in the process of recovery. And as you get further through that process, and you begin to sort of approach that like recovered state, if you will, I mean, the best words I got, you can start to bring those things back in in maybe a more modified or a healthier or a more productive way, like a non anxious person would use those things. So this is why I say that being recovered is very different than going through recovery. And why some of the concepts that you hear people like me talk about as part of the recovery process seem to be ridiculous, or they run counter to standard mental health or helping advice that you see on Instagram or you see on the internet. The check in is not bad advice. But when applied to somebody with OCD, for instance, it's horrible advice. When applied to somebody with panic disorder, it is horrible advice. And that's sometimes hard to explain to people, but that's what makes recovery and recovered two different things. So another good example of that might be, hang on a second, make you listen to me, slip some water here. I just water in the cup, excuse me. So one of another example I could give you would be avoidance. So we're trying to eliminate those old avoidance strategies, right? So while you're in the process of recovery, you may have to default to yes, yes, I will do that. Yes, I will do that. Whereas you used to default automatically to no, because of fear avoidance and worried about how you're going to feel. So now I'm going to always default to yes for a while. And then people start one, right? He hydrates horrible. But sometimes people get confused and they'll start to say, well, I got invited to a party, but I don't really want to go to that party because I don't like those people or I have to work until eight. The party's not in parties at eight, 30. I'm never going to make it, blah, blah, blah. So, and there are like a lot of practical, regular reasons why you might not go to that party, for example, but while in recovery for a little while, at least we default to yes, because we have gotten so far into the habit of defaulting to know that we don't understand. We actually don't understand the difference anymore between the practical, no, like, no, I just can't make it. I have to work that night or I won't make it in time or I have to get up the next morning so I can't stay out that late. And I'm afraid if I go. So for at least a while in recovery, we tend to default to saying yes to things that down the road, we might decide, no, I just don't want to do that because I actually don't want to do that or I don't like that. And sometimes people will get down the road in recovery and discover like one person I remember one saying, this is super interesting. Like I used to love amusement parks, I was a big roller coaster person. And now I always thought when I got better that I couldn't wait to go back on the roller coasters, but nah, like I'm really not into the roller coasters anymore. And like, that happens like our tastes change, things change, our experiences change us. But it took a while for that particular person to come to grips with the idea that, oh, I just don't really like that anymore, just not interested to do that's not fun for me anymore. So I'm not going to do it. They were really worried, like, if I don't go on the roller coaster, does that mean I'm avoiding? So again, the difference between recovery, which is a process where we steer hard and maybe make decisions that don't make a lot of sense, they're artificial, they're like, they're almost forced extreme in the other direction. And then over time, as we go through that process and we get closer to that recovered state, we start to back away on those things. And we can start to make decisions that are really based on just valid things like I'm too tired, I'm sick, I don't like that person, whatever it happens to be. And you start to learn like, oh, no, I'm not avoiding because of fear, I just generally don't want to do that. So those are kind of four examples of where recovery as a process and the state of being recovered are very different. So as a recovered person and anybody who we call themselves a recovered person in the room would probably corroborate this in the comments, if you're so inclined, like I can use some of those tools that I would tell you as a struggling person, especially the beginning, don't, don't use that tool. Don't do self check it. Don't do any of those things. Stop get away from the self talk as your default thing. Stop trying to talk yourself down. Now I could, I use those things probably subconsciously without even being aware of it on a daily basis, just because they're adaptive life coping strategies sometimes. But when I was at the worst of it and the thick of it and trying to change my direction, I had to abandon those things because they were completely off the rails and not working for me and keeping me stuck. So that is in a nutshell, the difference between recovery as a process and being recovered. You might hear things that while you are in recovery, especially if you're just getting the ball rolling, you're going to hear things that seem like, well, that's that doesn't sound right. I get it. But that's because we just have to steer hard away from those old unproductive habits that are counterproductive and keep us stuck. Why do I say we have to steer hard? And sometimes people will complain and say, well, you're making it very black and white. I know I sound very black and white. I do understand that life is not always black and white. And sometimes you can't steer hard in the other direction from time to time. You don't have a choice. You have to go with the flow. That's fine. So sometimes you can't steer hard in the other direction. Okay, that's all right. But as a general guideline, at least for now, why do I say you have to steer hard away from the old habits? Because fear is a powerful thing. It's a powerful motivator. And I say all the time, if you give an agoraphobic, the choice between staying home, taking, you know, like a whatever, a hot bath, and taking some supplements to feel better, or going out and walking around the block three times to feel better, which one do you think the agoraphobic is going to pick? Not because the agoraphobic that picks it is a bad person or weak or broken or whatever. Coward. None of those things. It's just that is human nature. We will steer away from a challenge as often as we can. So we have to consciously and intentionally say, well, I'm going to have to steer toward these challenges for at least a little while until I know that, oh, I start to learn by doing that. Oh, wait a minute, I see what I was doing. I see what I was doing. So I'm breaking those habits so that some the healthy form of those habits has room have room to come back over time in an organic way that makes sense. Like most people would use those strategies, those coping skills and that sort of stuff. So hopefully that makes some sort of sense. It's I don't want to make it hugely complicated, but I think it's a topic certainly worth talking about. Where are we? 15 minutes, not too shabby. So does anybody have any questions about that? Hey, Aurora, good to see you. It's been a long time. Hope everything is okay. So let me scroll down and see if there are any questions. If you guys want to throw them out there, I'm happy to try to answer them. If anybody has anything you want to add to this or like share your experience, like, oh, I learned what Drew is saying when I had to blah, blah, blah, throw it out there. That's totally fine. But let's see what we got. So hopefully that was informative for you. It is a process. All right, it is 100% process. There is there's no no doubt about that. Brandy says I have severe agoraphobia. Well, hello, Brandy. Welcome. I'm glad you're here. I saw a couple of people were responding to I would say head on over to my website. Go to the anxious truth.com and check out the podcast. Start from the very beginning if you haven't already. And if you want to take a look at the book that I wrote called the anxious truth, that is was literally a guide to recovering from agoraphobia. It's literally written directly to panic disorder and agoraphobia. You might want to check that out. But there's a ton of free information on the website Tuesday, go start to check that out. Hot in Washington state. It's chilly here today. It's getting warmer. But I read just recorded the podcast episode on the beach. You'll see that on Wednesday. It was cold and windy. I had to yell into the microphone. So let's hear. What is let's start this up. I'm going to scroll over here so I can see. Do you ever feel it's wrong? Do I ever feel it's wrong and you are sick of feeling anxious all the time? Carol, I'm not sure that I understand the question. I think I get the question. Do you sick of feeling anxious all the time? Yeah, 100% like who wouldn't be if you are feeling anxious all the time and you are just getting tired of that nonsense. We all feel like why wouldn't you be tired of that for sure? Do I ever did you ever feel that it was wrong? I think that sort of ties together. I hope I'm interpreting you correctly. I never felt that what I that it was wrong. I certainly felt like it was annoying. It was frustrating. It was it was it was just hard to deal with. So my experience was that I never really thought of it as like this is wrong. I'm doing it wrong. I'm doing something wrong or this is wrong. I just knew well this isn't this isn't the way my life should be or I want it to be. It doesn't it isn't the way I know it. It can be. But I was super frustrated just like what I think you're first you're expressing here. I was tired of it too. So if you are just up to here with it we get you. I get you. I think everybody in the room gets you. I hope I answered that question. Hope I read you correctly. Thank you all for hopping in and saying hello to Brandy. I'm not anxious at the moment says Becky. Love it. This is a big one. This is a big one too. What would not anxious me do compared to what anxious me do? Screeching Bird is a great screen name. Love the screen name. But yes this is part of it and this is a thing that is a good principle to go on especially early on. You're welcome Carol. I hope I got that for you. Especially early on you can rely on this what Screeching Bird is saying right here. What would not anxious me do? But for people in the very beginning stages often you can't even remember what not anxious you what would have done. Or you can remember it but it seems completely outside the realm of reality and possibility. So for me when I was at my worst I can remember when I would every weekend drive really long distances like around the east coast of the United States by myself in the middle of the night. Route 80 anybody know route 80 across Pennsylvania. Once you're out of like you know north you get out of Jersey you're in Pennsylvania there's nothing there I would drive all the way across Pennsylvania route 80 by myself in the middle of the night and not think about it. So I knew that that sort of thing that was the sort of thing that not anxious me would do. But you might as well have asked me to drive to Mars like it was so far outside of the realm of possibility that I could not imagine doing what not anxious me would do. So when you do when you are in that situation then these guidelines just steer hard the other way take what your fear is telling you to do and do the opposite that's a principle you can use. So let's keep going. Recovery is moving from I oh this is good let's throw this up here moving from I can't to I'm going to do this while I'm afraid and see what happens. I would actually even embellish this and say recovery is actually moving from what if to even if and you guys have probably that's not that's not anything you probably haven't heard me say already. So when you are stuck it's well I can't do this because what if what if I feel this way what if I panic what if my heart starts beating what if I have the scary thought what if I actually decide to stab my dog what if what if what if now over time you actually start to move to even if I can function even if I am anxious even if I have this thought even if I have the sensation even if I think I need to be saved and no one's around so what if to even if is a powerful powerful concept you comment. Yes, Isocati is talking about that introvert thing this is a tough one like some people just aren't that social and that's okay like the world needs all kinds of different people. I cannot stress enough that if in fact you are naturally introverted and somebody who prefers to maybe perform solitary things you like to read you're a quiet person you're more of a homebody that is not in any way wrong for an agoraphobic that can be tough because now you're trying to go back to finding the the the choice to say stay home on a Friday night and just watch a movie or read a book versus I have to stay home because I can't possibly go out so this could be really difficult for those of you who are dealing with like agoraphobia or panic disorder who used to be very boisterous and extroverted and engaged with the outside world of time well the path is clear but for somebody who maybe wasn't it gets really muddy so Katya thank you for pointing that out and only time and experiences will teach you whether you're avoiding or you or you're just like going for your natural tendencies that you'd always have anxiety or not and I will say that as we first we like steer hard in the other direction during the process of recovery and as we reach sort of more closer to that recovered status those habits can come back again you will sometimes get it wrong it's totally fine there were things that I did even in the middle to late stages of my recovery that I thought I'm just beat today I'm not doing it man and in retrospect the next day there were times that I would wake up and say I know what I did there like I know what I did I used tired as an excuse I was tired but I still could have done it so you'll get it wrong it's okay if you get it wrong just learn from what you did and do it differently the next time as best you can it's okay you're not ruining your recovery if you accidentally avoid one night it's okay so totally fine um okay this is cool it's not cool that you had to get drilled by the way brother I had to look at everything I did very similar to a trip to a dentist I'm not going to like it but if I don't face the drill it will never improve is a really good comment almost all of this is and this is one of those interesting things that I'm going to expand on probably later in whether it's in the anxious truth or the other podcast with josh disordered or you talk about that the temporary you're trading temporary comfort or temporary relief for long term restriction so what jay says here is right if I don't face this now it's never going to get better and I'm going to get stuck and I will throw this out there as a little preview of the topic I guess for those of you who are really worried that this anxiety can't be good for me I'm damaging my body and my mind by putting by being in an anxious state by show of hands who who is worried that feeling anxious is actually dangerous because of its additive effects on your body your mind for people who worry about that one of the hardest things to do is to say yeah but then you're going to have to go toward that because if you can choose if you try to not be anxious today then you will remain anxious for the rest of your life so it's it's crazily and this is off topic but this is what's going to come down the road it's actually a backwards self-fulfilling prophecy you think that if you protect yourself now that you're protecting yourself from these horrible chronic effects of anxiety but it helps keep you stuck in that anxious state for a very long time so it's way better to experience a heightened but shorter level of anxiety now and I mean shorter by like go through some really difficult months to get better and then live the rest of your life in a state where you don't have to worry that anxiety is somehow slowly killing you which by the way you are all way way way overestimating that stuff but consider that we'll talk about that later um let's keep going here oh Aurora just saw me live and wanted to say what's up what's up glad you're here um so this is the brandy won't put you up on the screen because I don't want to single you out but anyway there's a bunch of stuff there's a bunch of stuff in the podcast in the book that will address what you're dealing with there it didn't come back you just decided to start doing it the old way again and that's okay because there's power in that so hang in there um what else do we have here I'll throw this up here real quick it was an OCD question is the response to an OCD the same as agoraphobia and other anxiety by just not engaging in the rumination and moving on with your day yeah it is roughly the same let me clarify that a little bit so a lot of people will say that rumination is a safety behavior it's just a mental compulsion like rumination is a compulsion you hear this a lot right and it's not that you just decide to stop ruminating you can't just decide to stop doing that but you can decide when your brain has decided we need to think about this now we need to keep thinking about this now hey thanks brain I appreciate you trying to do that and this is really uncomfortable you're making me super uncomfortable which makes me feel like I should actually listen to you and think more about this but I'm actually going to make my lunch or make a phone call or talk to my friend or take a walk or ride my bike or pet the dog while you are insisting that I not do that because I really have to spend a lot of time thinking about this problem so that's really what you're doing just be careful about thinking that maybe you should be able to just like turn off the rumination switch so that definitely wasn't it hope that helps let's see here oh this I love there's a great comment sorry yield to the mic I have no idea what just popped up on my screen again safari has decided it needs to open and I think whoever said that it is a ghost of sieve jobs I'm beginning to agree with you I had a setback yesterday so I would have loved to stay home in bed all day did the opposite of what anxiety wanted join my family for dinner and didn't die great job we're very very great job that is exactly what you should have done I did a podcast episode called anxiety something about panic attack hangovers so if you go to my website the anxious shoot that comment search for hangover you will you'll get this you'll you'll get a story just about about that after that setback that the setback is oh I felt things that I haven't felt in a while I had a panic attack and I haven't had one a long time so today all I want to do is just stay in bed or stay home and take it easy and pamper myself got to do the opposite like at least the next day that's that steering hard steering hard away in the opposite direction right so really important good job more really good job um well it's okay jim I think this I think everybody has this experience so one of the ways so like today I went to the beach and you know kind of isolated area that was the point I promised you guys I would go to places I used to be afraid of to record podcasts and tell you about it so one of the things that happens and in my opinion here how we reach like a full lasting durable state of recovery where there is no it to come back anymore is when you have these realizations which are super normal that's a clue that says oh okay what I just discovered is that I'm still holding certain avoidances or I'm still drawing a line in the sand for certain things that I refuse to cross those are just clues that says oh I have more work to do let me go do that let me work on that and whenever you have these sort of realizations like you're kind of winning because you're having an insight into where your work still is and listen not everything in life is based on an anxiety disorder so many many people are avoidant to many many things I think all of us are to a certain extent that it's not necessarily based on an anxiety disorder but when you have these little revelations like okay no problem then it means I will need to work on a certain thing or it just means I've learned something about myself and like is this a thing I like about myself yeah okay cool then I don't have to do anything with it I'm good with it so good comment jim really good comment that's one of those sort of advanced recovery nuance things so I appreciate it um yeah this I love this I love I know I'm fully recovered now because I can check in with myself and live my best GBG life I have no fear now in the episode again I keep telling you listen on Wednesday when it comes out I said that I said people often ask me give me tips to stay recovered what are your tips what do you do to maintain your recovery what do you do to make sure you don't have a relapse and it doesn't come back and my assertion is there is no more it anymore there's there is no it I'm not worried that it will come back because there is no it in my life anymore so this is part of what Jason is saying here let's see how do you do exposures on having race oh okay let's see here remember by the way you know and I should probably do a disclaimer if I was smart and at some point I'm going to have to do that legally but I don't know any of you guys personally so I can answer these questions in a general way I can provide sort of psycho educational material here I can give you general guidelines that anybody would tell you but I don't know your specific circumstance so just keep that in mind when I answer your question because I could be completely off base because they don't actually know you but it's important to remember that so anxious thoughts about thoughts how do you do exposures on those racing thoughts just by having them in that reacting this is where my hat yeah well I would make the assertion that all anxiety is based on thoughts I know half of you here of the 60 people in the room 30 you're going to say no way this is symptoms man but it's not the symptoms it's your thoughts about the symptoms in the end so take heart in the fact that everybody struggles with thoughts like everybody all everybody is dealing with thoughts so if the thoughts come automatically congratulations you're in the exposure ready like you it's built in you don't have to do anything like this is again I don't know your context but I will tell you that in certain instances depending on what you're dealing with especially like in the OCD community you might do things to intentionally trigger those thoughts so you can practice disengagement from them or disengagement from the the anxious response that they trigger I don't know so sometimes it's more than enough to just work on practicing that disengagement from the response as they come totally happens and that's perfectly acceptable or sometimes you would actually intentionally try to trigger those thoughts with imaginal exposures and scripts and stories that you might write and things of that nature but I don't know and that's something normally you would do with a therapist so I hope that helps Jason says different Jason Jason Sandoval hello Jason I feel recovered my days are good the anxiety is not a problem anymore very good but I still have a fear of anxiety of traveling far away a little existential anxiety okay any things of any things I can do at the stage of my recovery to overcome I know what you're getting at there so international travel is not something you can practice on a regular basis one thing that I might say is we'll ask yourself why like what what exactly are you afraid of again like I mentioned before to Jim not everything is an anxiety disorder so you might be afraid of international travel for other reasons maybe you're concerned for your safety because of the state of the world maybe you don't like to fly like it could be a lot of different things so ask yourself why and what is it about that if you find that the answer is well because international means it's I'm so far from home well then you can plan to take take a trip if you can do that but again that's not really practical to can't practice that every day but that tells me that I would still have more work to do it's okay to be apprehensive about a thing that you have not had a chance to do so I tell the story often about the first times that I had to fly after I would have called myself completely recovered I had some apprehension about that because I I hadn't had a reason to do it and again it's not a thing you can practice all the time so I would have told you I was totally recovered but I was still a little apprehensive about those first flights when I had to start traveling for business again so yeah sometimes you just do it and trust that like yeah I know what to do even if I panic even if I'm afraid but ask yourself why and you know see what you can work on outside of taking an international trip that would approach that would address that so for instance if you feel like what international is too far from home takes too long to get home well then what's the difference whether you're international or domestic stay away from home for a long time if you possibly can you can work on it that way hopefully that helps and as far as existential anxiety I don't know if there's anybody walking the planet that doesn't have pangs of existential anxiety sometimes so again not everything is something that we have to recover from sometimes it just happens hey listen you know I actually enjoy conversations about existential topics and I can talk about death in the afterlife actually enjoy those conversations now which is amazing given where I once was but even I sometimes have those thoughts and it's like oh I don't like because I like being here like I don't want to die either you know so I don't want to deal with that sort of stuff but you have to see it may be very well be normal it's you don't have to fix every thought you have I would say that they really want to look at like when I have those thoughts how impactful is it on my life for me when I would have thoughts about existential issues and death and dying and existence I would be done for days it would literally derail entire days at a time of my life now I might feel a little anxiety or uncertainty about it but you know for a couple minutes or an hour I don't know so you gotta assess the impact on your life this is a good question hey junior how can I we know if watching your videos in Facebook group I well I can help you with the Facebook group if you leave the Facebook group you can't get back in unless we approve you and we have literally had people doing that I have had people say I'm going to leave the group please don't let me in like for at least 30 days so if you want to do that junior certainly well that's one way you could do it and we could actually even help you that way because you can't just join on your own but discipline becomes a thing and this is also a courage thing by the way this is a hundred percent a courage a courage thing so if in fact you find that when you are going to do let's let's do this again 60 people in the room smaller crowd today but that's alright so again show of hands how many people when you get in an anxious state or you're going to do something that life is making you do challenge or you're going to do an exposure how many people fire one of my podcasts or listen to my audiobook or listen to one of these videos if you are doing that because by the way you're not alone junior in this I guarantee that there's at least 10 people in this room that are going to say they do that so when you do that know that the decision to not do that is a decision based on courage so this is where we get into the whole courage thing which is what I'm talking about on Instagram all week and that little thing that I talked about with Jenna at the beginning the anxious truth that conversation powered we're doing that approaching anxiety courageously that's this is a courage thing that's a leap of faith when I think I need to fire up a podcast and listen to drew or Josh or whoever your favorite people are because they make me feel better if I make you feel better and I comfort you then turn off that podcast and take a leap of faith I can handle this without drew I don't need that guy's voice in my ear so think about that what you're asking is I'm scared to do it by myself but you could do it you could totally do it I love that I used to do it Heather says I've gotten better it was definitely me I love that it was getting better listen this is one of those ridiculous things that I say all the time and I think from like a purely influencer standpoint it's ridiculous but the best day for me is the day you won't follow me like I will wish you well maybe I'll miss you but you know especially if you're you're in the chats all the time or whatever we're going to know each other a little bit but the best day for somebody like me is really the day that you won't follow me or the day you stop listening to the podcast that's the best day it's not good for business if you want to call the podcast a business but it's what I really want you to do is someday not have to listen to me so there you go um let's see oh this is really great I love this welcome Heather Samantha says I'm nearly there as I'm going on holiday with her without anxiety I plan to enjoy myself this is when you know you're starting to get to that tipping point what's like I'm going because I'm tired of not going and I'm pretty sure I can handle this I love that I hope you have a great time Samantha and you know what even if you struggle a little bit it's still a huge win so keep us posted um let's see here oh this is good Lisa's talking about a pulse ox meter the doc I have to look over the top of the comment hang on the doc needs help diagnosing something and wanting me to use an oximeter once in a while in the past I would have had to check it constantly I could check it once or twice put it away I think it's boring I think that would be that would be a state of recovery that a hundred percent would be I love it that's a great great great share like how your pulse ox is boring now most anxious people will be like I'm gonna watch it 24 seven I get it um love it so let's go here that's literally how I approach everything for a while I'm not gonna I I'm sorry that I just cannot answer questions about this you know I was taking a medication or I was taking something I can't address that that's between you and a doctor I'm not qualified to tell you whether you should or should not take a stimulant or whether it's going to mess you up I have no idea and I'm going to go even further than that and say you should not ask the internet if it's going to mess you up because I will guarantee you I feel like I'm a little bit more responsible and I'm going to flat out tell you I'm not going to talk about that I'm not going to answer your question so I'm sorry if I disappoint you but I won't because it's safer for me to not but the internet is full nobody goes to the internet to say oh man I love that medication very few people will say that people only go to the internet to say it messed me up it screwed me up so no reporting bias is going to be a thing so I wouldn't ask the internet at all about this you're not going to get information you're not going to get good information um now I will throw this up here is anxiety stemmed from a trauma that we did not handle correctly in the past I don't think it is it could be but it is not automatic so um the style alert love the doge uh the the doge avatar there so if you're uh this the thing I have talked about before is it possible that the source of of your anxiety to sort of started in some sort of traumatic experience or abusive experience or an adverse experience sure it's totally possible but it is not automatic and that doesn't mean that if you have been digging and digging and digging to try to find some sort of trauma and you can't that's an indicator and I am a firm believer that even if you did experience some sort of some form of trauma if you are now afraid of your own thoughts or your own heartbeat or your own breath and that sort of stuff it's really hard to deal with that if you are on fire because you can't get up off your sofa or you're terrified to bend over because your heart might go too fast or you're terrified to be alone because what if I have a psychotic grip so I am a firm believer in the fact that even if there is some traumatic experience that was the original driver it can become decoupled from that and if you don't address the avoidance itself and the anxiety disorder itself it could be very difficult to to go and address that underlying if it's there but I cannot say enough I want to completely validate anyone who's lived a traumatic experience and is suffering because of that but at the same time I need to draw a hard line in the sand and push back against the narrative that says all anxiety is trauma based it is not and that's just fact maybe it is and if it is for you then I'm really sorry man I'm sorry that you had to go through that but hang in there we're all cheering for you whatever the work you do um let's see here thank you love from my channel you're very welcome Tony thank you for the kind words dropped a lot of helpful things 100 true I'm going to keep going here let me scroll to the bottom dealing with some real health issues I've had moderate slap oh this is a huge comment it'll cover the whole screen so let me just read it real quick I was panicked at the thought of wearing something on my face a CPAP machine like that's really uncomfortable right I also have diagnosed can't stop thinking about them can anyone relate I think most people in the room can relate this is that thing where I'm experiencing a health issue I have to wear maybe a sleep apnea machine or you know I'm facing some some health challenges and I'm I'm nervous about those things because all human beings would be nervous all human beings would worry about that all human beings would think about that but for people that are in the state that we tend to be in in this community that becomes I'm nervous about that and I'm worried about that but also I am now nervous about being nervous so the fact that this thing is triggering some anxiety or concern or worry in me which it would for anybody is now itself a concern so you hear things like oh I had that I have to go to the doctor I might have high blood pressure my anxiety is through the roof well part of that is because you are literally anxious about being anxious and if you have no tolerance for ever being triggered and you're trying to always become then you're going to be triggered by these health situations recognize that recognize that so the there's no easy answer to this other than the recognition that like sometimes you know we're going to be triggered and we're going to be anxious unfortunately especially if there are health issues going on which I do hope work out well for you quickly but don't beat yourself up and don't look for a quick fix here I'm anxious because now I'm anxious and I I feel like I should never ever be anxious so I can't tolerate this that's a thing yeah anxiety bad anxiety is kind of the the central theme of most of the things we talk about here in this community um I just remember when I said to you my anxiety is very thought-based I figured that out very quickly yeah I mean most as some people who have thought-based anxiety will instantly declare like well I have special anxiety because it's my thoughts it's it's everybody's thoughts everybody has thought-based anxiety um there are people walking around right I always go back to heart rate it's the easy one right take it and apply it in whatever your situation is but there are people literally walking around the world right now with their heart whose hearts are pounding because they're in a gym or they're stressed or they're afraid or whatever it is and they don't think anything about it so is it the heart or is it your interpretation of that it's always thought based in the end um let's see here thank you for asking me a question you're welcome man a problem restricting phone use over time is a good uh good suggestion for people who want to try and eliminate uh listening to podcasts or watching videos I know at least on an iPhone you could set screen time limits like sorry I you know can't do this uh you can't you've used up your time on youtube you can override it but at least it's a reminder so that's something Viola doesn't listen to podcasts and videos anymore I love it um good job let's see I'm weaning let's see what Becky has to say I get one podcast every couple of three days the other thing I do in the podcast come up and I answer the question the title don't need that reassurance already been there awesome there comes a point where like there's I'm running out of things to tell you if you've been around for a long time if you're new all of my words seem brand new and like really profound if you've been around for a while you start to hear the same words again and again and again so you got to take that into account what is it helping how is it helping me to hear those words again let's see let's keep going we're almost at the bottom of the comments we're doing good today guys good job um don't allow one thing or person to become a safety behavior very good let's see here uh by thoughts I mean I have a fear of getting stuck okay well a thought of being stuck in rumination forever is in fact a thought oh maybe I'll get stuck in rumination forever I guess I'll have to ruminate forever while I walk the dog take a shower go to work drive my car and talk to my girlfriend I know I'm making it sound very casual but I want it to sound very casual because I know that you are going to scream like no no no this special thing I feel like I'm going to get stuck in rumination but thinking that you might be stuck in rumination is no different than thinking you'll have a psychotic breaker thinking you'll never get better or thinking you're going to win the lottery it's thinking it's still thinking so when you are triggered and you have an anxious response to your thought that is a really good clue they're like oh I'm going to have to bring that anxious response with me and stop trying to solve this thing with more thinking so if you are really afraid of the thought that you will ruminate forever look at the irony of trying to get information on how to address a thought about thinking all the time like oh I guess I'm going to have to let that thought just be really hard but you know so let's keep going not very influence you I'm the worst influencer ever I will what can I tell you in fact it's so funny I'll share with you that you know I've written books and all that stuff and that comes with things right so I have literally had I don't have a publicist I'm never going to have a publicist if I ever have a publicist I want you all to unsubscribe from me because that's when you know I've jumped the shark but I've had people like publicists and book agents bitch and moan about all the stuff that I do like I'm not doing it right um let's see here yeah yeah this is this made me laugh actually lots of resources for free in my website but I'll be happy when you don't watch them I'll be super happy when you do take advantage of them but I'll be even happier when you don't need to do that anymore I love it it's so good um you need an entire pr firm big firm suits one day I'll tell you the story but uh I was in and I was in meeting about a year and a half ago that was about when I was releasing seven percent slower where I literally had a woman turn red and she was practically foaming at the mouth because I refused to get headshots taken I look that's not a badge of honor it's just you got to be who you are and that's who I am that's I'm not better than anybody else because they don't have headshots you know everyone headshots go for it I just find it amazing that like doesn't seem to be hurting me oh maybe it is I don't know um Amy went to see Michael Boo play last night I'm sorry I'm kidding that's great I didn't want it to end it was phenomenal night love being able to do things like this again love the love those stories always awesome um let's see here uh no no no no no my anxiety was triggered after getting COVID I've done some stuff on COVID again you got to go back to the you got to go back to the basic principles here in a big way um which is anxiety about anxiety anxiety about my thoughts anxiety about my own body um know the difference between the know the difference between the the the concern about being having COVID and having to the address the real issues with that and the real um you know the real ramifications of that and then being worried about what might happen and what it might mean and that's different that's the part that we don't that we don't have to do um sorry I picked on Michael Blue Bay I mean a lot of people love Michael Blue Bay he's good he's clearly a talented guy um okay we're about out of time here 45 minutes is about as far as I could go almost at the end here love it thanks it makes sound sounds silly hey you know what man I get it when you say it sounds silly I know often when I respond to questions I do make them sound silly I don't I'm not doing that to belittle you or belittle the question or to pick on you just sometimes when you have somebody who can reflect back at you like I know you think it's an emergency but I'm gonna always do like no that's not really an emergency it does sometimes make it seem silly and when you can see the silliness then I think I've done the job I've done my job but I never I'm not ever trying to belittle anybody or pick on you it's just my job is to sort of reflect back some rationality in the face of the fear so um that's it oh this I really though okay well end with this this is a screen I don't recognize ACM auto diagnostics welcome in the past year I still listen every episode but just reading the title I can literally write the transcript I know what you're gonna say word for word you know what man that's uh probably not good for me but that's good it's actually a good thing I like to comment anyway thanks everybody for popping in I appreciate it I will end with this this way everybody knows what it is and um voice work the new american top 40 you should do voice work I've I've done a little bit so one day I'll kind of fill you in and where you can actually hear my voice in other areas maybe I'll do more we'll see but um I secretly love Michael Blue Blay guilty pleasure he's a towel to do don't get me wrong just not my my thing um so anyway this will stay up here on youtube if you want to come back and watch these live streams you can do that anytime on my youtube channel if you're not subscribed on youtube you should do that there's a playlist called recovery monday so I put them all in that playlist you can go watch all 69 of them again if you were so inclined they will stay here they are they do stay on facebook and in the facebook group but I find that they are just impossible to find over there for sure so check out youtube and I'm going to do let's pay the bills a little bit just a reminder if you want more of a deep dive on some of the topics you can find some of the stuff that I produce here this stuff is not necessarily free or there are some free resources at learn dot the anxious truth comm and coming up on friday which is may 19th and there is a replay if you're watching this later it's live on may 19th but there's a replay jenna overbaugh and I are doing this workshop on approaching anxiety courageously which I think is going to be really great and that's it I will see you guys I don't know next not next week but the week after I do these every other week there's an anxious truth podcast episode coming out on wednesday about tips on remaining recovered that was recorded at a beach I used to be afraid to go to and on friday disordered comes out with me and josh fletcher I don't know which one this is but check it out all right guys see you see you next time thank you for coming by appreciate