 Last year Got in a pretty bad car crash. Yeah, I got t-boned by a Prado because I was in One of the new Outlanders the Mitsubishi Outlanders. They're pretty pretty big sturdy cars like actually car rode over twice your car Yeah, yeah, you rolled I rode. Yeah road twice So I got I got photos it looked it was stupid like the car was complete right off But yeah, because it the guy ran a stop sign and this I had a customer in the back of the cars Oh, shit. Yeah, so so everything was fine. No scratch No scratch no, no none of us was hurt Not completely and you roll the car twice roll the car twice like it hit the rear the rear like left wheel So I remember at the time it was happening because I was driving past and I saw him stop But as I'm driving past I saw him start to move So I actually tried to accelerate but then he hit the red like the red corner just clipped your clipped and they're like Yeah, well, well, it felt like it was a slow motion like this. I was like, oh, what the fuck? So, yeah, what did it feel like when you're like mid rotation? Oh, it's one of those where I just had to shut my eyes and just Hold my body like a roller coaster sort of yeah And I actually had to make sure because you usually you know, they say very car crash You don't don't you hold your body rigid But because you was rolling out like I didn't want to actually let my body swing and hit your head Lucky thing like it's because you know that the airbags on the on the other doors So completely the other car was all good like I mean we were all good not the car was fucked up But the the main thing I'm trying to say is like it's That was a rental the very next day. I was in another car Welcome to the Sebo show. We have a king amongst us King of afros afro king What's going on afro king? Yeah, I'm also known as Mac. Yeah. Where's that from? Well, the afro king. Yeah, stop with that. Well, it was it was a pretty like it wasn't as kind of out there as people would expect But when I first started rapping, I went by Mac. Yeah, the acronym for that was like most anticipated character But then when I actually started setting up my social media pages and things like that by the time you search Mac like Apple comes up Mac makeup Macmillan publishers. Yeah, so it's just like I had to from then on I look at me to actually figure out something different and yeah, it's Growing up always had a thing where my mom would always try to make me cut my hair And for some reason I just always hated it So like I always I think because I followed ludicrous a lot. Yeah The fact that yeah, this is back in the afro days. Oh, we had the after like I want one of those Oh, dude, so yeah, yeah, you know, I wasn't I wasn't blessed with the with the afro jeans But yeah, dude, I've always wanted to know for nowadays a surgery again, you can get Kardashians can get an ass. I'm sure you can get an Afro But yeah, it was just one of those where like I just chose to kind of like Combine and just go with afro king I don't know where it actually came from but it just it just hit me like a light bulb moment So I decided to go with that and yeah So it's been it's been like that since and I usually I usually like joke to myself like, okay, cuz My dad's my dad's boat. So like what happens when I start to get both. Yeah, so my like hack towards that is like Yeah, it's African King. So it's nothing to do with the afro African King, you know, so yeah So it just those are the two mean meanings that came from that. Yeah, so yeah, that's that's where it comes from So how long you've been in Australia for? since 2009 2009 so that's going on what 14 13 14 years now. Yeah. Yeah, so I was in high school and my family moved here. So yeah And we're bats originally from Zambia Zambia. So yeah, yeah, so Zambia Southern Africa represent I got a pretty big following over there. So yeah, usually people always asking me to come come and do some shows I was meant to go there next month But a few things fell through so I have to actually put it put it on the back better for a bit. But yeah, it's Came straight here my family my mom came here first. She was a nursing student So yeah, so came finish my last two years of high school here Going to kent street big park So yeah, so this is pretty much home for me. That's almost half my life. I've been here So you say you're popular back in Zambia doing your music Yeah, um, were you popular before you left? No, I didn't even do music when I went to left So you grew a following and a fan base whilst you were making music here in Australia pretty much Do you get any shit from people going? What are you doing in in Australia? Not so much. I mean, usually the the the thing I get a lot is like, oh, you should move over east or you should move move to the us and like it's I never really saw because even like It was my chance that I actually started to get a following in in in Zambia. So it was uh Because I did a lot of facebook ads because like I was early on as far like using my facebook ads to try and get the name out there And then what I do is because I do like, you know how you do the Um They are targeting for like for each countries. So like I would actually loop all the countries into one But because it works based on the bidding system So like a cpm because it's so it's so cheap in Zambia that would always just get Get the most traction. So the most engagement or the ads were always showing in Zambia because of the cheaper cheaper bidding There's less competition there. Exactly. Exactly. So it was just by accident and then I just started getting people like always commenting Like, oh, yeah, Zambia represent like it's just things like that. It was just by chance and I was like, okay Maybe I should actually Interesting most of the attention on that. Yeah, if I if I'm gonna if I want to build a fan base somewhere Uh Somewhere unknown If they don't have a lot of competition on facebook, I can build a random fan base anywhere I want, you know, exactly Exactly. It's like real estate. Yeah, okay I even found on google like the cheapest countries without what the cheapest cpm calls like kind of like malaysia india It's some south american countries. I got big big following in brazil as well. So that's that's how I kind of like worked That around so by the time I get to a point where I'm actually able to tour Worldwide at least that's those seeds have already been planted. You know, did you did you do all this yourself? Yeah, wow YouTube tutorials. Lots of youtube tutorials. Yes Yeah, I've always been the guy unless I'm fully passionate about it. Yeah all in Um by then I'm I'm not really needing youtube tutorials. Yeah, something like facebook ads Yeah, never really wanted to learn how to do it. But yeah, it's it's definitely something that yeah, it's coming back as well It is it's coming back. Yeah, well, I mean even it's I think this is 2014 2015 when I was when I was using them and I because it was all just by chance and uh, it's It just all happened around the same time is um When uh, I don't remember like I actually got verified my facebook page got verified like two or two thousand five hundred Followers it had already been verified and I think it's because I I had pumped so much money into the ad so it was easy for facebook to be like, okay, this Yeah, you know, he's paying us money. So why not reward him? Yeah, exactly. So what are you up to now? 43,000 43,000 facebook so facebook has been my my primary My primary uh platform But I've been trying to actually integrate instagram and and everything else get on to tiktok as well Yeah, my missus is heavy on tiktok. So she's trying to push me onto it. Yeah So, uh, you've been an artist now for almost 10 years. Yeah, amazing And and how did you start like you said you weren't into the making music at a high school where did that first spark come I I think at the core of it or it's always been there as far as like I've always been creative Because even dating back even when we're in zambia Uh primary school, I remember I did poetry in front of the whole school like I think yet Three or four So like yeah, it was a resided poem that I had to learn but I was too like The stage performances has always been a part of it. Like my mom would send me up to dance at weddings um, I was in a dance crew in in in my high school back back in zambia and um I did anything from drawing to you know painting. I was in a like a comic Uh, did like a comic strip from my high school when I was in zambia So just different mediums of being creative have always been a part of me Yeah, but music came when actually moved here because I remember this day because it was um, I think it was year 10 and uh One time lunchtime like there's just a group of kids who actually just going going back and forth like freestyling and You know trying to rush but because I was always introverted. So it's not like I was called to even try it I was just curious. I'm like, oh, okay. That'd be an interesting to do and like the next class I went to like I just started writing like just trying to write a verse and That by the end of the class I'd written a whole like a page full of yeah, so it just Yeah, yeah, so he just came out of nowhere, but I I know it comes back from um I saw you were talking with with my chain about sitting in front of the stereo and writing down lyrics I did the same thing with chameleon there and ludicrous m&m Just because usually I I pick up things a lot Visually, so usually if I see something being done, I just reverse engineering and like, you know, I can break down the mechanics of it So I think that's how I learned to rap It's like a lot of m&ms verses because I'd have to sit and actually Analyze how is writing the bars and I'm like, okay, this I'm breaking down all the mechanics and they just stuck with me Amazing. So yeah, by the time yeah, I was here year 10. I was like, okay Maybe I do have this This this drop thing going because yeah, I showed the first friend. I showed is like wait Where did you get this? Like I wrote it. No one believe me. Wow So just I don't know. I just yeah music just just became a part of me. That's awesome. Yeah So you you brought your poetry Stuff from from when you were younger. Yeah, and then that carried on and so you're so you're in a your child Stayed with you in a child stay with you 100% and that's that's kind of like It reminds me when I was that age like in primary school. I was always fascinated about capturing stuff. Yeah with the photos Yeah, right, right and I just didn't have my own camera. I didn't really think about asking for one I was into other stuff like, you know sports and video games. Yeah, yeah But I was always curious about photos. Yeah, and when I finally got I think it's when The the phones had the cameras started getting the cameras. I was like, oh You got more I was I was I was making I was documenting everything. Nice. Like I had a youtube channel back in 2006 Right, okay, and I just wished that I pushed it. Yeah. Yeah, you know back there with it. Yeah. Yeah I just didn't have anyone else to kind of go. Yes, you know, I remember I put up I ripped off A youtube no, I ripped off a tv ad. I figured out how to record Uh tv which was hard and then I learned how to transfer that to the computer which wasn't easy back then You had to do a lot of different things. Yeah. Yeah, and then I'd learned how to crop it Put it into the youtube and upload it and there was a there was a an ad I remember put up. No, just put up on youtube. I was like, this is funny. I put it up It went viral. Nice. Like like early days. Yeah. It had over a hundred thousand views and you know back then I was that would have been like a you could have monetized. Yeah But I didn't think about that. Yeah, because I just didn't care Oh, I didn't even know but I always I always wanted to like stream stuff and yeah document stuff I got into streaming a little bit like video games. Yeah, okay, but it was always the cameras. Yeah, and then now now I'm here True. It's like the inner kid is it's all, you know, you have to let that inner kid like I always I really ask like people our age like Because you're related to the same age if you graduated 0809 Uh 11 11. Yeah. So you're like what 29? 29. Yeah. So we're still relatively the same age. I'm 32 I I graduated. Oh wait. Yeah, I remember by within three years I always had a little point and shoot camera on me like those little digital ones. Yeah, true And then I eventually got a DSLR and then that's when it started a game And I yeah, but like I always was like persistent my inner child was always persistent. I never let that die Yeah, yeah, I think it's it's an amazing thing when you're actually able to hold on to that because you never know the different directions where it could take you Because even now with me as as far as music like yeah, I feel like music that's that's my medium now But I don't know if I'm going to be rapping for the rest of my life Like I'm I'm curious about so many different things I want to try different things like because I have a passion for like not like comedy like at some point because like I'm so um And I literally even like stand-up comedy. I watched a lot of like even I don't know if you know, I'm flagrant, too Uh, like the other podcast like Andrew Schultz. That's someone who I've been following for quite a time. Chappelle I got on to chappelle like they should pair early on the chappelle show back in the day on Oh, it was crazy all time. Yeah, like all time favorites as well Like I actually went to see Dave Chappelle when he came to earth. Yeah, I'm forget about sure Like I'm I'm glad I got to do it I was a birthday present from a missus and like, yeah That raised the bar now. I gotta come up with something because our birthday's in a couple weeks. I'm like, okay I got the bars been raised But yeah, like even things like at some point I'd love to just for the for the heck of it Like even go to like an open mic and just try try my hand at comedy Because by then I already have I've built up the confidence to be on stage and just let it translate to Yeah, you know the comedy side of things. It's it's not easy No, I mean I've talked to with a few comics Of comic friends Dave Hughes. Yeah, he's saying he's saying you need to do it. I'm like true Yeah, but when he's saying he's saying that Dave. Yeah, I'm just like, okay Andrew Wolf is just like, yeah, you gotta do it man. You gotta do it man Yeah, I get that I get that I just I'm just not ready because I'm very analytical as well Yeah, and I know exactly what you mean when when like when I watch comics Like nowadays I'm like I've seen all of it. I've heard all of it. Yeah, there's nothing really new And and like and I still see the the same comics that you know my mates and they still make me laugh Yeah, they come up with some banger banger You know one liners. Yeah, like Daniel Delby the other the other night. He said something and I just started crying It was so good. Yeah, and um But yeah, now I'm like I wanted to come in and say and do something completely different True. Yeah, but until I know what it is, you know, and you got to trial and error You got to yeah and bomb and stuff But like with all these things that you want to do Um, and you're doing, um, how are you getting by? How are you making the living? Ah, actually I drive uber uber. I was actually working when fight came here. So, uh, yeah I've been doing that for probably five six years because before that I actually worked at our for cash converters So I worked there for like six seven years worked my way to be like I was managing one of their stores Uh, because this was on the corporate side of things as well. Do you like negotiate with the pricing and stuff? Yeah, I did all of those how much you want for that? Yeah, I did everything Is that is your favorite show on um on tv porn stars? I actually never really watched it But I've seen clips of it and it's it's a similar experience It's a similar experience. You don't have every expert under the sun at your fingertips That lives down the road at any moment. That's such bullshit, man Yeah, they're talking about this media medieval sword and it's like, yeah, I've got a guy He's got to come and have a look at it. Yeah, like next second he rocks up and it's I mean, it is vagus, you know, exactly Exactly, but um, so cash converters you are you are negotiating deals. Yeah. Yeah. I worked everything from the retail store I was in the bison lawns area worked in the finance area Well, that's that's helpful because that can translate into when you start picking up more gigs Yeah, more musical gigs when when the the venue manager or someone you're negotiating price is just like, oh, you know Yeah, yeah, I'm not I'm not doing it for any less than that much 100 percent 100 percent Plus even I know it helped me with my people skills because like I said, I was introverted that changed when I worked at cash converters Amazing because I was on the retail store and I had to deal with like hundreds of customers a week And like even by the time I left even now I worked in the victoria park store So when I go back now, they still customers as all just maxed you here Like so, you know that that still goes on but that's that I kind of get hard to get out of my comfort zone So yeah, I was there over six years and then by the time I was managing one of the stores That's I kind of at the same time the music started to pick up. Yeah, I'm glad I'm glad that the retail side of things Grew you out of that introverted side because I mean a lot of people hate retail for obvious reasons Yeah, and then they they hate people even further. Yeah And then they they grow they grow even a bigger shell to hide into but you managed to come out of it What do you think was the difference for you? um I think for me it's just uh of general curiosity Like it just in general is like it I don't really take myself too seriously like it's uh because growing up I didn't uh Because I haven't really had that Conventional type of upbringing. I went to boarding school I was 12 years old And then I was there for three years. My mom came here two years before we did So it was like kind of like it's kind of had to be to kind of find ways to entertain myself So I didn't really Each time because I moved around so much. I didn't even get a chance to make close friends or even have have friendships So, yeah, they're just that it's it's not like to say like I was Craving the friendships, but I just learned how to be without them So then by the time I was actually growing up if I hadn't done cash converters, I'll probably yeah It would affect what I was what I'll be able to do. I wouldn't be able to do this even come on to this podcast Yeah, I mean the universe and this is your first podcast too. So 100% yeah to be that guy very much. I appreciate it Yeah, yeah, so yeah, and that's amazing how the universe works. It creates It's a vessel for you to go you take every opportunity straight up You know you run cash converters and then and then what made you get out of that game to get into uber? It's Because when I was there I was working full-time and I just kind of started Because I I'd done the music fresh out of high school And then I think my graduating year. I'd already had um a lady like her name's Kayla She she was a lawyer. So she already wanted to manage me like that. Wow this manager Uh, yeah, because I'd This is it was kind of like one to the next so I think two months after graduating. I was already recording at SAE studios Before they went to this the campus here. It was like on off Adelaide terrace So yeah, I was recording into the studio there. She was organizing gigs for me I remember performing like a few times in armadale. I performed at uber So this it kind of just started to steamroll but then at that time like it's I wasn't ready for it Like it I wasn't ready and she wasn't either because She kind of started she had to focus more on her career. So it just kind of like it was like a mutual thing. We're like, okay Because I didn't even know what direction I wanted to go So then I kind of put the music on the back burner and then just work the cash converters for years and then out of nowhere um Because I remember I was taking my my my little sister because I drop them off my my siblings to school on my way to work And then a beat came on and I was just rapping and my sister was recording the video And then yeah, I just happened to put it on facebook and then just the organic engagement Like it just started to go to go viral and then I was like, okay That's pushed me into wanting to to do that a bit more. Did you did you feel like you needed that needed that validity? um Maybe at the start I mean because it's it's not until like the person I am now I've reflected on times when I did need that and that that's you kind of get misconstrued as far like all what's the purpose you're doing this for That's an interesting one because yeah, like Let's say you put our video up and it never gained traction Yeah Where do you reckon? What do you reckon you'd be now? Um Would you reckon you'd still be doing it no matter what? Probably not probably not. I mean because I because even then uh, like growing up I was going based on the just the conventional thing with my parents that I was gonna try and study medicine or do engineering African parents is similar with Asian parents like you gotta be a doctor or an engineer target parents. Yeah, you know exactly So like that's that's that's the track. I thought I was going on But even as far like with my cash converters Like working with them By now I'll be like a one one of the head office because they got the head office in the city Yeah, they've got a succession plan. Yeah. Yeah, because yeah, it started in Perth. That's where cash And you wouldn't have you wouldn't have minded that I wouldn't have I wouldn't have like I was the youngest person to gain management Like it's you know, like African on top of that I was African and happened to be the youngest person to actually made management So I know something could have come from that And it's like, yeah, it's uh, it's I'm confident in my skills to actually achieve things Regardless of what it is like usually if I apply myself to something I know Yeah, I can come out of it. Yeah, you're analytical. That's what analytical helps you. Yeah, exactly. Exactly So yeah, there's a few moments that I'm I'm seeing from your life that have happened. They all come into to play Yeah, but you but you loved to do it anyway Oh, I loved it. I loved it and you would still be doing it no matter what And there's just a difference between you loving it someone else loving it and you're both loving it Yeah, if they if they fell out of love with it, you'd still be doing it Yeah, if you fell out of love with it That's a different story. It's a different story. I said that all the time. So yeah, I mean Based on you saying that now that I'm thinking about I'm analyzing it right now It's like I say cash converters made me a bit more extroverted, but Music made me more expressive. Yeah, so that's Because I'm not a generally expressive guy or I'm not an emotional guy even like I'm generally like Calm and you know centered But when I rap it's like it's just it's still Expressing things. I wouldn't necessarily express, you know in everyday life. So it's a secondary voice Yeah, so how do you bring that out? um It's a switch. I just turned on off if I'm being honest. Is it easy? Oh fairly. Yeah It is Yeah, I find it difficult. Yeah, I don't know how but it's just um I'd say The the journey I've been on is kind of being semi I mean, this is this would be over inflating my ego But it's a semi monks journey where you have to kind of like separate from the world I felt like that was my childhood where like you because even um, I didn't From like if you imagine 12 years old I went to an all boys boarding school So then in African boarding school, it's yeah, you kind of read It's a milder version of less like a military school in the sense that that didn't have access to the internet There were no girls, you know, how like it's Being our girls is formative in his own way So let's say had to learn To not even learn like it's uh, because you know when you start to hit puberty like it's the hormones just start even like now like as men Where more some of our actions may be motivated by wanting to attract women or women they Women are a big motivator for a lot of our actions So that was already not a part of me like growing up So I was it's a good thing because I went to the same boarding school my dad did so that on top of that I didn't even start listening to hip-hop music until I was 15 16 So a lot of let's say Cultural influences or things that form how we operate I was kind of like Let's say quarantined from a lot of those things. So by the time I was kind of let's say coming out into Into the world was on a later stage when not already My foundation was already kind of like cleared So everything was just coming after the fact So that that's what I put it down to because it's like, yeah, it's if I try to rationally explain it like it's Yeah, that's that's what it comes down to Yeah, so it's just little things like that I love that. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. So now so now you've gotten that switch that you can Turn off and on. Yeah, do you need to be in a zone or anything like that? Or can you just do it anytime? Uh, it just comes at any time. Uh, it's I think it at this point is also a matter point where it's different switches as well because I don't Um, I don't really say I'm a rapper per se it's because even now I wear so many different hats because Me and my boys just started our label where we got like an artist who was a part of it We're label now. Yeah, what's your label called? It's apex presents. Oh, yes. Yeah. So this is label. So it's it's rooted into it because My journey has been on well, like a lot of the things I've done have kind of been things I've actually had to chase on my own no one really No one can come and take credit and say they they they brought opportunities to me You know, so these are things I had to learn to do on my own So now it's the case of where I'm kind of like, you know, giving back or like trying to Um, impart those things to to what like the younger guys around the team as well So it's what I say. I wear many hats because I I shoot some of the music videos I do Editing I do producing I have my studio or whether it's like I mix and master my own stuff I do my marketing promoting the shows like it's everything is all in house So it's like it's it's it's actually helpful me to to turn that switch off So I can I haven't written a new song in like probably two three months. I haven't had to Because there's other things that I've needed my attention That makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. I've got I've got the same sort of Kind of scenario. Yeah. Yeah. No, I can see it. Yeah, like I've got I've got my brand And I just did that for fun. Yeah, it's and now it's a thing And I mean everybody has a brand Yeah, there's a south park episode about that a recent one. Oh really a good brand True one with the the the royal family that make fun of the I saw it's new out of that of it would carry and Megan. There's a whole. Yeah, there's a whole Because you know how south park's always got like two storylines going at the same time No, exactly the other storyline in that episode is building your own brand. True. It's so funny. Yeah, right Oh, yeah, everybody's got a brand. It's just whether or not they want to publicize it And I publicize mine without a care and look where it's gotten me. Oh a hundred percent the only thing about You know pushing out your own brand is You're going to be ready for what comes with it. Yeah, especially if you know get noticed by everybody I'll say a lot of people don't I don't they're not ready for it or they don't they don't know what to do with it So they either fizzle out Burn out or whatever. Yeah, well they get taken advantage of From managers that are You know opportunities, but they they're not doing it for the right reasons. They don't want you to grow They just want to take that large heart. Yeah, you know pimp you out Exactly. So you managed to do it on your own. Yeah, and now with apex. You're doing you're helping others. Yeah Doing things that you wish you knew you had someone to help you with. Oh a hundred percent. Yeah Yeah, um and even then I would it's because the the thing with like let's say with how we started apex is more Um everyone on the team these these are guys have been that have been with me from the very start Like when I first started my very first show I went to these are the same guys that that came to him So one of them is nas So he's a pt. He's actually getting on to producing now. He's actually making beats and stuff like that So it's It's more like a collective. We would We each have our own brands, but we have a collective vision working towards So like apex is kind of like a fuel to actually Drive that Because I have my own personal brand like afro king entertainment, which is centered around everything afro king related like the music Or my music videos when it comes to the publishing and things like that. So that's A kind of hard to compartmentalize all of these little things. Yeah Yeah, the kids the kids you say making beats the kids. I these days. It's becoming really popular Like kale here. He loves so he gets home and just starts dj practicing Nice, um, and he's making his own mixes. Yeah, nice And it's becoming a real big thing like the kids at school when I was teaching That get on like garage band or something And like samples and whatever and and you know that and I've always been interested in that too I've got like a little sample sample deck there with a little keyboard and little pads Yeah, I feel and you know ableton and things like that. Yeah It's it's like a really easy time to create visually audibly Therapeutic as well therapeutic. Yeah, you can you can you can just escape for hours 100% and The only problem with that is And I've I've faced this with the pictures The photos is you have a passion And then you get noticed and they start getting paid Yeah, and then that could potentially become a chore. Have you come across this yet? Um I did a few times it's I've noticed it more when I if let's say because I'm so There's a lot of times when I could actually work so well with other people So let's say if it's a collaboration Because I usually have just ideas just come non-stop. So a lot of the time it may be I will come up with let's say ideas that Would benefit everyone as a whole but let's say that the passion for that idea may not be the same So I had to like kind of like learn to um even compartmentalize what Or even where to prioritize those things and that makes sense And yeah, I've had times in the past where you put yeah, you put energy in in Or too much energy in the people that you shouldn't have put it towards Uh and like I'm let's say neglecting the guys that are on the team and I'm not putting the energy towards them So I had to kind of like learn learn those things and like you If if it's something that is rooted It's always had to be rooted in like that feeling of fun for me Like it's if I'm editing one of my own videos or even like when I had the studio like it's at some point I was actually Um producing for other people So like I'd actually turn the studio into a business and actually had people coming in paying for studio time And I noticed like well, I'm actually mixing and Mixing other people's stuff. I'm not as enthusiastic about it. It feels like work. Yeah compared to if I was actually it's The original seat like okay. I got an amazing idea for a song like it's usually I won't sleep like I'll keep going until you know Yeah, exactly done. So just noticing those little things like that like okay. Yeah, it's It always have to follow that feeling of it being fun and that makes the biggest difference Yeah, absolutely. So so when you do are you onboarding staff and things like that to help Take care of the jobs that you don't really want to do At this point that's that kind of seems like it'll be the next next logical thing because I mean, yeah, it's um Yeah, it's It kind of gets to a point where you kind of on the verge of Burning out. So sometimes I actually have to take a step back and yeah recharge And then come back. Yeah, so these are things I've had to learn. I've had times when I've burnt out and then like, okay It's you go over the point of no return So yeah, now I'm a lot more aware of it. So even like times when I'm um If You know if I need to just separate from everyone and just you know, just being my own space because I mean from a spiritual perspective, I'm like How my person who needs to recharge energy like in my own self even like even like my partner like she knows as well It's like if I need just to be on my own, I just need to recharge first and then I'm I'm able to give energy to everyone. Yeah So just you gotta look after yourself first you do you do because I mean it's You don't help anyone if if it's depleting to you. Yeah, you're not good to anyone if you're yeah Burnt out. Exactly. You know, you just that's how forest fires come up. You can you can get um You can do a burnout test online. Oh, yeah, you can check yourself in Um And I take it every week every Thursday Okay, and it gives you a score out of I think it's like 60 or something. Yeah. Yeah And I've gotten a couple of times or it was like a 43 44 and that's like borderline danger levels Yeah, yeah, yeah, and now I'm like back below 30. Yeah, and you know, and there's always stress But it's self-inflicted. I should check that out Well, actually, I remember the very first time I actually felt um the feeling of actually being burnt out or like overwhelmed was um I think of 2017 it's um Because I was having uh I managed to win this competition to open for yg and actually go go on tour with them Now the the thing was that was like actually the competition was you had to actually do like a freestyle video Like come up with a video to actually and then get people to vote or is on facebook So this is how facebook ads actually helped me out to actually win that because um, you bought it Yeah, exactly. So I literally I I made countless videos and I was just chucking ads and just it because Because you're so easy for me like I even like it's just on a on a on a normal day I could put up a video and then get like a few hundred to a thousand people actually liking Like in this post like I think one of them the actual competition video I had like 1,500 people. I liked it 250 Shared and then 200 comments and then I went through every single person And added them to my personal facebook. Hey, I notice you like this video It'll mean a lot if you go and vote. I did that for days Like hundreds of people just messaging messaging. That's how I won that competition And that that's at the time I was working at cash converters and this is like it's our this is the first time I because I'm not the type to get insomnia, but I literally was getting insomnia from that like I could not sleep because I was Juggling so many of these different things as to like that. It was an obsession for me. Yeah, but then that's when Like my my homeboy nas like he like he kind of put me on to the idea of starting to meditate And that's when I I had to meditate From that feeling of being burnt out and that's when I found meditation And that's ever since then even like I did a 10 15 minute meditation before coming here So it's always those things just always helped me like it's you know Because it came at a time when I actually saw like the instant shift as far like it's it's not like every other day on someone Oh, you need to meditate like it's usually like, okay But if it's a case where the place of desperation and you see the instant Instant effect it gives you so it's like, yeah, it's from there known It's like, yeah, it was it was an easy enough thing to do. So how do you how do you meditate? How do you meditate? um I think I'm on a point now where I do for me is like silent meditation So because I can feel when my mind my mind is actually clouded with thoughts. So I just See it and it helps usually if I'm in a quieter place or if I film in the car I just because the air con is going I just sit and I just listen you see I listen more for like a steady A steady sound a consistent sound like the air the sound of the air con Like the the fan computer fans were hearing It's because that doesn't have a stop to it I just listen to that and it keep bringing my attention back to it and actually notice My mind that's the present that's bringing you out to the present So my mind actually starts to quieting down from that But before I mean it it comes on different days Sometimes I'll need a meditation to actually help me feel energetic about going to perform on a show Sometimes just put on affirmations. It's always based on what I'm feeling on that day But because I've done it so many times like I know what meditation is good for me based on what I needed Yeah, the scenario scenario. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah So you're uh, you went from Being a school kid Just observing the the art of rap and yeah, and now you're doing it. You're performing it. Yeah, and you're starting for Uh artists. Well, well, yeah, you won competitions. Had it with with that gig What what what came of it? What did you get out of it? Um, apart from experience it was more Was there a networking opportunity you may remember was there a link up with someone? Yeah, it was there. Oh, yeah, as far as like a link up. Yeah, definitely built one as far as like, uh, even With there's an artist from uh, I think it's my my album right now. Uh, I know it wasn't go cause for a free while So this is early on like this is at a time when I could um, so he done pretty much the equivalent of what I was doing Let's say with the facebook these are the time when facebook was also the same way soundcloud rap Facebook at a time had had his own time when there was a rising of influences I like to think I was part of like the The facebook era of influencing that's that's kind of where my my come up was and he was another one Was doing the same thing in god cost. So he actually happened to win the god cause Started the competition. Oh cool. So he was opening act. I was gonna open for for him then But then he actually messaged me with that with an idea to say, um, do you want to? Do you want to share stage time like, you know, like you one person I won I won I think no, it was brisman that he won sorry not go cause but he's based in go cause like, oh, yeah If we share stage time like they gave us like 15 minutes Of stage time but it's like, yeah, if we cut that down to seven minutes each we get to both perform in both cities So they're like, yeah, why not? So he he flew over here He performed here and then I flew over to brisman and went to perform over there So, yeah, that was that was a really big thing because I was my first Okay, it because it looks good for the resume as well, you know, I performed Yeah, I've opened for yg but not just that I've toured with yg technically like you know I've been to the brisman shows or like took even like the photos one of my My favorite photos I have is like me and free wire We're on stage and like the sea of like three four thousand people behind us And this is like two three years into me actually doing the music So I've done this without management without, you know, this has all been just Ideas that have come. Okay. Let me try at least let me try that. So yeah, that was it was more like, um It's a nice to tell me to keep going. Yeah more than anything Keep going and and and put out ads on face. Yeah, exactly So what's been your most recent achievement in the music space? Um in the music space I managed to get a cosign from buster rimes Wow So yeah, like one of my songs coronation like it's just got buster rhymes on the intro like actually Intro in the song for it. So how does that work? Um, this was just like it's just through Uh Because it's you notice that with a lot of artists usually trying to like the other promo promo runs on instagram So I actually happened to message him on instagram and we kind of like I had a bit of a back and forth Back and forth rapport and yeah sent him the song So he liked it and he was prepared to actually um and he was like it's um Well, I talked to his management as well and they were pretty good as far like, uh Because let's say seeing the um Seeing the potential Because at the time it's like yeah, obviously I had to pay for it. But it's just comes it's music business But at the same time this is um It's it's someone who I've actually interacted with who's aware of me and who's actually put You know the stamp of approval as far as like that So you get the buster rhyme stamp of approval, you know Yeah, I mean because you you hear the voice instantly like hey all these buster rhymes are general the conglomerate movement Big up the homie afro king This next song is called coronation. This is verbatim what I said like the zambian king from perth australia African let's do it. So this is that's his voice. You hear the song, you know, does it cost you anything? Oh, yeah, I did I did um What's can you talk about his? Yeah, it was like a thousand bucks u.s. Thousand dollars. Yeah Do you have buster rhymes on your track? Yeah, do you're gonna be the same stew or do you reckon that phase? I mean, it would be the same for that the verse would definitely a lot more A verse is a different story. I heard like snoop dog One of a verse from snoop dog in a song is a 250k. Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure but I don't know if buster would be at the same point as snow But yeah, a verse would definitely cost a lot more like I didn't even want to entertain the conversation because I wasn't there yet but Because I kind of built that relationship because even it got to a point where like I've message to say, okay We're gonna shoot the music video for the song We actually because I just got so busy and it's we never couldn't actually get to actually work Work it logistically, but he was prepared to actually shoot a video To the same intro he did and we could just attach it to the music video. That's even cooler. You know, yeah So, uh, what's that? Did he do it? Oh, no I would like it would have been extra course like it would have been half half the half the course So what it played in the first place, but you know, I still that's you should therefore want to do it now But I mean we just haven't actually gotten around to it It's just it's it's on the long list of like I've seen you got a long list of things to do It's on my long list. Okay, this potential So it's more like trying to prioritize what to go with first. Yeah, because um Yeah, I mean it's we'll probably talk about it later on but there's even Plans for this year. So there's big plans for this year. We're trying to actually strive towards And like yeah, just a song along having him on the song alone was a big Was a big tick for me. That's cool. So yeah now on Spotify. It's gonna be name of song featuring buster arms Yeah, like yeah, that's hosted by buster rhymes. Oh, yeah, cool. Yeah. So it's like a dj drama or Uh, when I do like mixtapes hosting or like fat man's group Things like that. So yeah, it's so that that's that that was a big thing for me because buster is like one of my Influences like people who influence me as far like rap like even to this day I still listen to his verses I'm like, okay. Yeah, I'll still pick up the man rhymes quick. Oh ridiculous. Can you do that? Can you do what he does? Uh With what's your what's your average tempo in your music? It ranges. It ranges. Uh, I can do like the quick That double time rapping as well and you can do it like freestyle as well No, no, I was gonna say no freestyling. It's gotta put you on the spot Yeah, that's I actually have a I was watching the the mac chain mac chain one likes Mac chain put me in a spot one time. Yeah, I'm sure he will corroborate this story for me for you So because I performed with him at colab a few times like even like when when he was hosting it I got at the moon moon cafe And then because he'd also seen cause usually like it's I can do like a really quick rapping But It's one of those where I have to train for it Like I I mastered the verse to a point where like I can I can do it But it's not something that just comes. Yeah, so I walk into like this is that I walk into moon cafe and then mac chain seemed like hey African so he's like oh, yeah come over is like is and then he just goes to the drummer is like Oh, yeah, this is afro king like he's really dope with uh with a double time like oh, yeah So I'm still trying to process what what's going on because I came as I came to be part of the audience I wasn't expecting to actually go on stage. So before I know it. I'm just young don't do the stage And then the beat just starts going in my chain But you know my chain Yeah, one of the best freestylers out there like he's he's he's top tier freestyler Even like rap in general like he's I respect his talent. I was not ready that day. I'll just put it that way So I know I know you you probably probably feel bad, but there is just one of those things like yeah, it's It wasn't there for it But also it's like I didn't it's this is before I could even um, I had the stage confidence to even be able to relay like okay Yeah, I'm not ready for it. Let's try something else improvise. How do you know you're ready for what's that? How do you know you're ready for? I look at rap like it's it's it's a sport like it's literally like a sport like if if you Let's say play footy and actually train every day your cardio vascular is going to be built up to a point Where you can any day you can jump into the field same as content creation 100% 100% that's that's how I look at it. So even like freestyling It's a muscle for me Like if if I'm consistently riding a constant consistently rapping my mind is thinking in rap and rhymes If I do if I don't do it for a long time. It's one of the I have to actually think think at it Have you ever rapped to one of your uber? Oh Lots of times. Yeah, lots of time that should do that as a thing where you put a little gopro camera there And I thought about it. You know a few people have suggested that it's That would be cool. It will be I'd probably do it like it if it was like a okay where I decided Okay, this is the day I'm going to do it because for me. I also because sometimes I will consciously because um It's usually people when they get into the car and uber with me like They're curious enough where they try to actually start asking my story Sometimes like it's I pick whether I'm mac or I'm going to be afro king Sometimes I like I wouldn't I'll steer the conversation away from the music I'll be like, oh, what do you do this for time? I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, I just have my business as well So I'm maybe a time when I'm not even in the mood to actually start going on to the rap direction It is like it's I like that That separation from it. Yeah. Yeah, you know, well, that's where the you know switch comes in Exactly, but like that idea. Yeah, I've battled with that. I the the thought of actually because that that is There's your tick tock strategy. Yeah 100% 100% do that and yeah, that's oh man. Yeah, because I mean it's If I put a gopro you're allowed to Uh, yeah, yeah, there's nothing that says you can't and you're that's a publicly post. Yeah. Yeah I think even recently like I did get an email from from uber which they sent to drivers where they're actually asking for creatives um, and they wanted to I don't know if it's kind of like a Sort of a thing that they're trying to do Trying to find because a lot of people that drive uber are people that have their own business So they're trying to start something So, you know, uber try to actually neuter that and people and try to So, yeah, so, I mean Say what you want about a company you work for or not. Yeah. Is uber legit? Are they delay look after you? Oh, no No, no, no, no, I mean for the way I look at it. It works for what I need it for Like it works best for what I need it for I don't know if it would be if I would recommend to someone like, okay start driving uber full time Because for me, it's a means to an end It's not like I'm like that's that's my way of like that. That's my end of the It's like an older version of retail. We have to drive people places. Yeah, a hundred percent And look, you actually make good money from it. Well, that's what I mean because like I've heard that you don't I heard that uber You know is that the unrealistic of with their like how much cut they take, you know the fuel and all that stuff And then that uh, netflix series that they made did you watch that? No, I haven't which one is this they made a net uh netflix. I think it was on netflix But um, it was a whole series about the uber story And uh, it wasn't a documentary. It was like one of those acted ones. Yeah, really fascinating. True. Like I don't know exactly how accurate it is, but I'm just like damn. No, I have to check it out But look the way I look at it for me personally is because I've because I've done it Six years and it's been a lot of trial and error right now Like I figured out the best way to make it work for me Yeah, because if you ask an uber driver who let's say owns their car and has to worry about Uh, servicing their car paying for petrol. Yeah, I read your insurance. I rent a car Like I've rented cars for the last two years. I don't even own on my car I'm always driving a brand new car. So how does that work with with renting? Like how much how much uh a day does it cost? Um, I mean, it's it's not like a day for me Because I've kind of like got a relationship with the guys that went from in that That's how they normally run these on a weekly basis if let's say if you though Yeah, you can get like a daily, uh, it rent for for a day if you wanted something temporary, but for example, I I at the moment I'm driving like a little uh, corolla A hybrid and it's probably like 330 a week. Yeah, but that covers everything that covers radio insurance servicing It's a brand new car. I got the car like zero kilometers. So I'm always in a brand new car Yeah, the driver for two months So the company I rent from like by the time they hit I hit 15,000 kilometers I take it back and swap up for another brand new car So I've driven so many different cars that I drove a ranger over evoke at some point. I drove a vw t1 Um, I've got that. That's my one. They're nice That's actually been one of my favorite ones to drive like it's a tig one is really good as far like it's a fun drive Even um You can now get teslas if you want, you know, I mean 300 bucks or 330 bucks a week give or take And that includes fuel. Did you say no, it doesn't include no, it doesn't mean minus fuel, but everything else um You know, like the people that get car loans and they're paying I mean, there was one point I was paying $918 a month for the car that I I know Yeah, right. I took an l when I was a teenager. True. I had a couple SS VA Commodore VA V Vz executive 900 yeah Yeah, but like I've always thought if I like if you purchase a brand new car Especially if it's like a top-end one and I'm not talking Ferrari or whatever But like a hundred thousand dollar car like a Nissan Patrol or something Divide that into weekly rate. You'd still be you'd still be paying less But you don't own the car, but when you when you sell the car, you don't really get much It's a depreciating asset. Yeah. Yeah But um, yeah, it's a cost of cost of doing business. I guess and if you rent a car you can you put it in your Put it in your business. Like yeah, it's a business expense. Yeah And and it's a tax write-off, right? Yeah, so Something that I've always kind of wanted or even like another example is last year Got in a pretty bad car crash. Yeah, I got t-boned by a Prado because I was in One of the new outlanders. That means to be shoutlanders. They're pretty pretty big sturdy cars Like actually car rode over twice your car. Yeah. Yeah, you rolled. I rode. Yeah road twice So I got I got photos. It looked it was stupid. Like the car was complete write-off But yeah, because it the guy ran a stop sign and this I had a customer in the back of the cars. Oh, shit Yeah, so so everything was fine. No scratch No scratch. No, no, none of us was hurt Not completely and you roll the car twice Roll the car twice like it hit the the rear the rear like left wheel So I remember at the time it was happening because I was driving past and I saw him stop But as I'm driving past I saw him start to move So I actually tried to accelerate but then he hit the rear like the rear corner just clipped Yeah clipped and they're like, yeah Well, well, it felt like it was a slow motion like at least I was oh what the fuck so Yeah, what did it feel like when you're like mid rotation Oh, it's one of those where I just had to shut my eyes and just Hold my body like a roller coaster sort of thing Yeah, and I actually had to make sure because you usually you know, they say if you're a car crash You don't don't you hold your body rigid but because you was rolling out like I didn't want to actually Let my body swing and hit your head Lucky thing like it's because you let the airbags on the on the on the other doors So completely. Yeah, the car was all good. Like I mean we were all good. No the car was fucked up But the the the main thing I'm trying to say is like it's That was a rental the very next day. I was in another car They gave me the exact same car. And what about your client? Are they sue or anything? Yeah, I mean we both got like a payout like us. Yeah, we went to the hospital. Oh, and yeah, we'd from insurance Uh, yeah, yeah, how long were you out for? I mean the next day you were driving already. Yeah, I was driving the next day. Yeah Man rolled his car or a rental. Yeah drive the next day, you know, yeah, but I mean it's Only from zambia I mean, I'm from russia. So I probably the same thing, you know, we get hit by a tank and keep going Yeah, I mean for me, it's like it's the the worst thing I had was like because my my thumb was caught in the steering wheel I just felt like a sprain in that bit there But I was like, yeah, that's Because if I show you the photos of the car, you'd be like, how did you survive? But And not a scratch on your client a single scratch. Holy shit. And what about the old mate that cooked you? Yeah, he I mean like they were good. He was a Prado like it was Yeah, yeah, plus I mean he's because he was him his wife and his daughter in the back Like the daughter was traumatized because they were okay. They didn't yeah Nothing like because like they were coming from like a stop stop speed So like it just because I was one was moving. So like that didn't yeah, did you just his bumper fell off? so Yeah, I mean that's that's a story. Yeah. Yeah, there's a few of those There's a few of those. I mean just random stories random. Oh, man. I love the random stories I mean, we could we could talk about music and your upbringing and things like that, but let's get all the juicy stuff. You know, that's good Yeah, they'll probably come naturally. Yeah Well, I got one. Yeah. Yeah Oh, yeah, I I tried to tear tend to steer the conversation into something of value for the audience. Yeah But yeah, but like With the uber stuff it it looks after you pays well It's it's doing what you need it to do and there's a means to an end What is your next plan? um The next plan is currently is um Because part of my let's say slowing down Not not even like my conscious reason for you have kids. No, I don't okay No, yeah, I have a partner, but yeah, we're planning on having kids but not for another couple years. Yeah, same Yeah, so it's like, yeah, just so that's why it's like now. It's like, okay push push push. Yes. I feel that Yeah, it's weird because like people have kids Like yeah, sometimes a lot of the time unplanned And some would consider early because I see a lot of parents in their 20s going don't have kids until you're 30 Yeah, you know, well, then why the fuck did you have kids then? Yeah, it was an accident. Okay fair enough, you know We have that luxury of not had kids yet. Yeah, we want kids Exactly and you know, we're going to take it as it comes but we want to hustle so that because I see a lot of parents Not give any time for their kids or much time for their kids 100% Because they're working so much to provide food and the table and you know, all that stuff And this is where the funny part comes in, you know, like I can't speak for everybody at all. Yeah It's only my observation. I just want to make sure that I because I have this chance I want to hustle Yeah, and then be as present as possible by the time I have kids And not and not like continue to hustle like Unwined yeah, whereas I see a lot of parents like they work harder because they realize shit Yeah, I need to make more money to keep this kid kids aren't investment. Yeah, they are They need like that attention and Like financially as well, you just yeah, they need a lot of financially emotionally. Yeah, I mean financially Depends if how much finance Um, but like the cost of living, uh, you know, this is high and then Um, and then with with the emotional stuff, you need to be there First and foremost for the emotional part to come. Yeah being a former school teacher. It was I've seen a lot of shit like the parents did the wrong thing. True and I don't want to give advice Not being a parent, but yeah observing all these different parents. I start to see a a pattern and the biggest one is Give you give time to your kids. Oh hundred percent. You know, yeah, they're there to figure shit out But they need someone to trust and exactly with social media out there and all this shit that that that comes out of it And that's why I don't know if you've seen my stuff recently on instagram. Okay. I've been putting content out That's a bit more educational. Yeah. Yeah, right topical like credit cards. I did one of that. I saw one of those Yeah, yeah, I that's what I'm kind of rebranding myself to be less less of the Random shit. Yeah more of the purposeful stuff and I'm already seeing parents Share it to their kids like one one girl Yesterday she tagged her son because I know them Tagged her son and and he's a fan of me Yeah from and I'm like that is what I want. I want I want thousands of parents sharing my shit Because they're like See Sev saying it. Yeah, learn with Sev. That's the hashtag. Exactly. But so yeah, you want kids you've got a hustle at the moment Yeah What's your ultimate goal for your creative space your music? Um For me it's Because even like kind of like the the next step we kind of built into us for I mean ultimately for me as I just want Let's say the freedom to Like yeah to have the financial obviously the financial freedom And also just be able to do things that inspire me But it goes from a from a let's say from the music standpoint because I've had About two or three years ago. I potentially had a deal from universal like a publishing deal From universal music which I didn't feel was right for me because also I always sit and actually I'm honest with myself 100% like, okay. Is this the right thing for me? Or am I doing it just because it's a cool thing to do because anyway, I'll be like, oh, yeah I'm signed to universal like, you know, it's it's a flex. But then at the same time you sold your soul. Exactly. Exactly So for me, it's like even as far as like, yeah, I see myself like I'm perth is always going to be my home I don't have a desire to really move and go and live anywhere else. I grew up here That's more than almost half my life. I've been living here So in my ideal world, I'll be let's say, obviously I want to be able to travel and tour, but it has to be on my time So let's say because like it even like that Artists I go to actually see or tour with or actually see be a part of their shows You can kind of see how it's they're getting exhausted. Like, yeah, like they'll come here They'll be here on a Friday Then like I love to fly out tomorrow morning to go to Melbourne and go and perform there on From Saturday night, there are circus performer, you know, like, yeah They've been a perth. They actually haven't got it to see the sights in Perth So for me, ideally it'll be like, yeah, if I'm traveling to go to go and perform Let's say if I'm going, yeah, if I want to perform in France Take take a whole week and actually, yeah, have the show there and then also be able to have a holiday Which is what we're planning on doing that later this year. We're actually going to LA So, yeah, we managed to actually organize a show over there with Like it's named every Hardin. So we actually worked with him last year. So Because it's a it's a kind of show we we started Called re-up Re-up Re-up Like, yeah, re-up So actually it's re-up Yeah, re-up So RA-UP So re-up Oh, re-up Yeah, like I'm gonna drug re-up So Oh, yeah, yeah But nothing to do with that But anyway But yeah, it's it's it's something we've been doing because when we started that it was more like because I also had a bit of the frustration of having to Because like you like I said, I've got a pretty prominent following in Sambia in Africa, actually Most of my fan base is African African fan base. So Yeah, maybe a big deal over there, but I'm still an up-and-comer here So I still got like lost to proof So That that that is kind of like an interesting predicament that I was put in To where like I still have to prove myself to people here as far like to what's what I can do Yeah, the CPM is not that great here Exactly not not so much not so much, but also it's it's it's my own doing where my being not wanting to let's say Network and intermingle with too many people and I like to keep it close knit with my team That that's what's holding holds me back and I'm aware of it. So usually like yeah, it's I'm aware of my flaws, but I'm also accepting of them And it's what I'm prepared to to deal with and not but when I actually sat and reflected with that it's like, okay Yeah, it may get in the world. Let's say me getting gigs to watch it perform here like yeah I kind of like hit a cap like the thing I haven't done is festivals Like I would like that was kind of like my my next level because you had to push it, you know 100% I'll perform like metro city. I might much have performed there next week But I've performed there like countless times now and I know that venue really well Yeah, I think I think your best bet is to yeah Pan out as many places as you can In Australia, but also, you know online Organically so like the tick tock thing will definitely work if you get there 100 because like I've got a friend His name's sam And he he does he does his own original songs with guitar. Yeah, it's a surfy kid And I met him recently. He was busking out out in um in the city, right? And he he had like 40 000 followers on on instagram. I was like that's pretty good Yeah, and another 40 000 on tick tock. Yeah, right. So I was like, okay, he's doing well. Yeah, and then Like and it wasn't because of me unfortunately. Um But yeah a week later He did a thing where he went out and sat next to a girl and play guitar. Yeah, you know that one And he went door knocking around the places. I'm trying to get him on on the podcast here. Yeah Um, it's kind of hard now because of what happened But one of those videos went viral like 10 million view Instagram All of a sudden he got verified all of a sudden and he was on the the voice as well But he didn't really get much of a following after the voice. Yeah. Yeah. He was just on the voice Yeah, I got verified and all that shit and then for this one video He's on like 200 000 followers now or something like that on on instagram. That's nuts. Yeah, like organic and and He's getting gigs and stuff and everyone's starting to figure out who he is and yeah And god knows what happens next, you know, you get the wrong manager and you sell your soul Universal hundred percent. So yeah, it's the same with you. So it's it's only a matter of time But you have to put yourself out there. Yeah I completely agree with you. I reckon the uber thing is your is is it this is your sign I am I am here to tell you that And and then when it works, yeah, I'll have a snippet of me telling you and I go Oh, I always I always give the credit words to you. So you don't have to give credit. It's all documented now Exactly. I see. Yeah, right Yeah, but I mean with Yeah, I completely agree with you on that one, but I mean like it's um, based on what's The direction we kind of steering towards as well is Or what I was trying to say like I said without the not being able to actually get um local shows here is We ended up thinking why don't we actually started ourselves? So that's how we came up with the idea for re-up is more like that fuel is like it's a regular show We do it like every quarter like every three months Yeah, and promote the shit out of it leading up to a yeah, yeah exactly And it's like yeah, instead of me actually having to go and beg people for a stage time like I'll just Yeah, I make my own that's good There's a team of like probably five six of us that are mcs and we know other other people locally and uh, we've done it probably four times now and sold out the last two And like also what what I pride out what I pride myself as even like with the whole team is like this is Because coming up like I was getting all of these shows, but I never took I never took a single dollar for it I wasn't expecting it because that was the benefit for me was the experience and the And that's that is something the younger kids don't get yeah. Yeah, they want money straight away. It's like you need experience You I know I know I don't regret it frustrating because I have I've had people Like I've dealt with and they they said, um, should pay me more money from the start. I'm like, well, fuck Right improve yourself. Exactly. Exactly. That's that's what I always push with people. I'm like, yeah, you always got to be Self aware and you always got to be honest with yourself. Like don't no expectations either. Yeah, exactly Exactly, like do it if if you were on if if you were sitting on the other on the other End of the chair and actually you were in my position. Would you pay yourself that much? Like that's how I always look at it. Yeah. Yeah, you know, pretty much. Yeah, so that's how it always comes to it But then then you got to be careful about imposter syndrome too. Like I got oh, yeah, you got to you got to Value yourself properly. Yeah, and you got to put everything on the table and go, right Where is my experience? Where am I at now? How many accolades what are my achievements and over time and this is where the experience comes in You actually get more confident going. Oh, actually, you know, I have put five years into TikTok for example for me I am worth more money than all these other dickheads who are exactly, you know going. Hey, I'm a tiktok guru now I'm like, are you or did you just get lucky in the first month? And now you're just trying to make a bag really quickly And two years from now. No one's going to hear from you. Yeah, there's so many of these, you know Oh 100% so many scam on us out there. It's like everyone's uh, everyone's a professional or everyone's an expert. Yeah, it's like, yeah because even like I was actually having a chat with my my partner because like it usually would get all of these kind of like spiritual Uh videos or like oh like oh this this star sign is like this. I'm like Everyone seems to be an expert. It's like it. I can't for me. I'm always skeptical. Like, yeah I'm I'm an optimistic person mist. Yeah, so it's like I'm all I'm never going to really take what someone says I'm like complete gospel until I actually sit and reflect with it and see how it actually Resonates with me and then the real experts that will be able to give you that information with no expectations. Yeah and then once you've You know Exactly Verified it. Yeah, you come back and go even like with with you or like As soon as I saw because um, I think you're one of the very first person I hit up about coming onto the podcast when I was actually thinking, okay, I need to start making podcast appearances It's like, yeah, shout out to you for getting back to me instantly as well But it's like for me, it's I always see you're like, okay This person has that which I'm trying to obtain. I should probably listen to him because like they have you know, so actually Putting your ego aside and actually listening and actually yeah if You also don't want to be caught up in get caught up in your own way Yeah, so like yeah, it's different now as you're telling me all of these things I'm taking as you're saying like, okay doing the With the GoPro in the car with uber. I am listening to that You know because it's like, okay. Yeah excited man. Yeah, if I could wrap that's exactly what I would do I would just wrap the people random But the the ubering has actually helped me in so many ways like even like promoting shows sometimes I'll just have flyers like with the rehab like it's It's on a weekend because like let's say Friday Saturday night. I'll pick up 150 200 people on on the weekend. That's people I can Promote to like I've got a show coming up in free or like if I'm driving around free mantle Or I'm gonna be performing at Clancy. So you guys should come down. That's helped me in some way. That's a good idea So you would station yourself in the surrounding suburbs of where you're gonna go. Yeah, that's that's genius Yeah, you know, and it's like nightlife people already drunk that you know, they're going out So that's people who are already doing what you would like them to do or just steer them Like, okay, I want to be performing here instead next week. So you can definitely leverage it You can definitely leverage the uber uber driver thing as well. I'd be like, hmm. You ever seen uber driver rap before? Yeah, do you want to see one? Do you want to see one live? Yeah, I've had I've had multiple times when I've worked It's because like when I look to my app I've done 13,000 trips 13,000 what's your star rating? 4.99 oh 4.99 I think I'm one of the highest rated people in in in Perth like it's 4.99 far out not just the afro king You're the uber king, you know But yeah, that's uh, it's I think the rapping and the cars helped with that as well. Yeah That's that's like a difference. That is that is that is your proof of concept right there 4.99 star rating. Yeah 13,000. I know People like you. Mm-hmm. Now you have to document that You're right. You're 100% right Yeah, someone last week Because for me it's like I never the uber rating as it's for me. It's just it's just there I've never really actively been trying to get a perfect rating. It's just like at last week I had someone coming like oh 4.99 like oh, so how did you get this? I'm like, I don't know I can't tell you and uh Another lady she was like, oh, I'm gonna. I'm gonna give you like a two star rating because she was pissed off like it because Because usually with a driver if let's say you order an uber, right? Like it's usually you want to look out for the car. You're looking for the license plate Yeah, when I pull up as a driver, I'm pulling up on the general location where you are So it's on you to also look out for the car. I can't guess Which person on the street is the person looking for the uber? Yeah So like though she was like standing like across the road on the other side with her husband And then like I was because I'm waiting usually I wait like okay. I've arrived and then She I think that that that stared at me like a few like a few times And like I can't guess like they're not giving me any indication like no usually people wave like oh, yeah This is like I'm your passenger Nothing and then she came like minutes later like she's disgruntled like she's You're so outstanding. They weren't ethnic group was this there's all the white lady. Yeah classic. Yeah, it's classic white lady Yeah, but for me, it's like usually like I that's I'm I'm also rude. I take my stand I'm like, yeah, how am I supposed to guess that you're the you're the person I'm meant to pick up It like oh, I'm giving you a two-star ring like yeah, go ahead I don't give a fuck about the ratings like give me that he doesn't make a difference to me, you know Yeah, take me down to 4.98. So So I got to the point where I was arguing with her the husband also because her husband saw that she was in the wrong So he couldn't Like she was like, oh, do you want us to get out? Like, yeah, you can get out. I don't need to take a trip I'm ride sharing like I'm sharing my ride. I don't work for you. So she got out. I drove off So so I have I have a few of those as well But it's like I don't have to stand up for bullshit if you know if I don't yeah, absolutely Yeah, well without without adding too much more of just making us an uber podcast about it What uh, what's something that you can give to the kids who want to become Rap artists or mcs or you know the next afro king or queen I'd probably say self-belief more than anything it's Knowing yourself I'm one personal prize myself on I've never been one to follow trends Like you you rarely catch me worrying like it's oh, this is a trendy person. I've never owned a pair of airmaxes Uh, I've owned one pair of Jordans. I mean no not to knock airmaxes like it's not to knock them like One of my best friends. He has like it's several pairs of them But because I never grew up like that. So it's not kind of like ingrained in me to actually think To go to go and get I'm usually for me. I've always been like, okay, uh, it's Even like a thing of the the subconsciously the whole thing with the aphroids. I want it to be different Yeah, do you have pair of jays? I do have one pair of jays One single pair of jays which I've won for like seven eight years now. Yeah, well, yeah That's trendy. Oh, it is it is but I didn't buy it because of the trend I bought it because they looked good. I felt they were good and I wanted them. What what pairs? Um, I couldn't even tell you like if flight 182 I don't know. I believe me. Yeah. Yeah, see that's the thing. I don't even know what type of jays they are It's like, yeah, it's just never been my usually if I see a pair of jays like, okay, that one looks good I will go and go and buy it, but I'm never really like Finding the next one or when the next one I'm going to drop or which one is this? You don't have time, man You got you got you got rides to deliver. Yeah You know and baits to right um, yeah, but it's yeah, like I was saying it's like self-belief and knowing Who you are and that allows you to know What path you're meant to take because even with now with music it's like it's For me, it's it's a calling. It's something I was caught to do. It's it's not something I consciously decided to do But it's like, yeah, it just so happened like you were saying the universe just led me along this path based on my own or so Self-belief and not really wanting to compromise for anyone or anything It led me to the path that even now like it's We're here now for a reason and you and you paid you paid attention to yourself That was what my TEDx talk was about. Yeah, I talked about that exact thing is that Self-awareness. Yeah is the first Important thing the thing that you can build in your life. Yeah mix that in with self-esteem Because hopefully luckily enough you were nurtured. Yeah, and you were provided with some sort of a and you know like We come from countries that there's not many opportunities. Yeah, you have to go into a system. That's somewhat communist I'm not much too familiar about how it is in Zambia. Yeah, but I dare say that there's a lot more opportunity in Australia 100% 100% at the end of the day No matter what the opportunity is you need to pay attention to yourself. Yeah, and Look at the signs. Look at how the universe gives you the cards and goes. Yeah You want to cut and I see so many people just like They they tell me I want to do this. Yeah, and I get messages every week. Say, I want to become a photographer I'm like, great. Great. Go grab your phone now and go take 10 photos. You find interesting. Yeah, right now I don't hear from him again. True. It's like, you don't want to you want to be a photographer. You just think it's cool right now It's trending Exactly. Everyone wants to be a sound cloud rapper. It's just like, all right. We'll go go sing something You know 100% or or not even go sing something. Show me show me your latest beat. I don't have one yet I'm like, what are you waiting for? You know, you should be already doing it. We're in the time in age where it's the easiest thing to actually Be able to do what it is you want to do like everything the resources are pretty much there in our reach It's just you got to go look for it. Whatever is distracting you right now Focus on that. Yeah, if that becomes your obsession Give that. Yeah, give that all your attention. Yeah, you know have a have an income Yeah, don't don't throw everything away to focus fully on that obsession. Yeah, you know be smart about it Oh, yeah, but then just go all in because it is not worth regretting it later Oh 100% because even like it it's even like that I got distracted by a point like when you're asking about what um What are you trying to do as far like or what the next step? Like it's this is kind of like the transitional thing moving on from the Uber like with this shirt here Like this is something which they made in-house. So we actually started printing our own shirts. So we bought Yeah, exactly. So instead of going out to actually have merch printed Why don't we do it ourselves and actually even other people come to us? Yeah, it's so hard We printed shirts for a little while ourselves. We have um, we bought the little steamer thing And we got the cricket cut machine. I got the cricket as well. We've um, we've moved on from that since But once upon a time we did that we made a shirt. I was like, oh, that's easy. Yeah, but then we didn't make it into a business But I was like, yeah, we know that it's possible 100% 100% the only annoying thing is getting the vinyl from the that one shop in malaga Yeah, you know the one other one now. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, you know, but um Yeah, there's opportunities for everybody 100% you just gotta go looking for that's it one one final piece of advice before we head off and What would it be just anything anything in life? Give me give me the quote of the day Do you need a beat? Maybe Yeah, not a freestyle. I'll give you an acapella though. Okay, gone I'm like a people blaster than afro embark until I'm deceased forming up at the mouth Like it's wrapping games of disease. So everyone grab your popcorn get to sipping your slurpees once I get on this beat I ain't never living like herpes took a bite at the Sun. So I'm glowing out on my bottom I was conversating with Jesus. He told me get in my gut and my lyrics are therapeutics So fuck the birds and the bees. I'd rather put out some music and choke on some double D's Well, I'm listening to my old bangers with some homies. I was hanging around like coat hangers With cheerleaders with limited clothes and bold banners. I hate diamonds. I'm living life on the gold standard So all my folks stand up, you know, yeah Thank you so much Mac for coming in man. Appreciate it. It was fun. Love your work. Likewise, man likewise For uh, for everybody else at home, you know where to go check out the description and uh, yeah hit us up on the uh On the conversation polls and uh, you can hit us up on the uh spotify section You can actually comment from this episode or on the youtube's Mate leave a comment tell me what you think about the episode and what your favorite part was until next time. Good. Thanks peace