 Yes, we're live! So I'll give everyone the link actually For youtube if you want to uh, actually, I it's not hasn't hasn't done it yet do it in a minute But I have to make sure it's it doesn't start Yes, we're live Yes If it's playing on my machine at the same time I was on zoom you just hear the echo of a second later So I won't do that. All right. So welcome everybody to this webinar, which has been hosted by the Australian chapter or Australia's chapter Which is going to which is really just starting. So we're going to put some information In in the link below to give you more information on that So please do do get involved. I'm there's two people two co-leads We have Ali Dori who is not here today. So I'm kind of like his proxy I'm the VP for hyper ledger Part linux foundation here in Asia Pacific and I'm based in Hong Kong and we have the So and we also have Levine who is the co-lead the other co-lead who's going to do a talk today as it's a linux foundation Webinar and a meeting I have to have two housekeeping items. One is that we do have an antitrust policy Which you can look at on our website. Just no collusion right and the second thing is we have a code of contract Code of conduct conduct, which is pretty straightforward. You know, just please respect each other And it's quite quite common sense So with that, I'm going to introduce you to Levine that do who works at IVM. I think it's IVM sterling He has a long career and he's going to talk a little bit about that in the supply chain and particularly around blockchain and and Supply chain and he's now going to give us a talk I think for about 30 40 minutes if people could put their Questions in the chat as you go along. We can make it a little bit interactive And welcome everybody and Levine. I'm not going to pass it over to you Thank you, Julian. I'm just going to Pause my video so that there's a bit of screen real estate Well, thank you for that Julian and uh, I trust you can see my screen. Can you just let me know? We can see us. We can see your screen Great, great. So thank you again, and I'd like to thank everyone for sharing their time with us today Just to give you a heads up, uh, it would be good if you can all have your mobile phones handy Because what I'll attempt to do is give you Give you an opportunity to experience foot thrust or traceability firsthand And so to get you get the ball rolling you'll find my qr code on the screen Please feel free to connect with me And I'd be happy to talk offline or share more details should you wish so just to set expectations today, um, I will not be Covering hyper ledger by any stretch of the imagination, but really I feel it's important to share experience and knowledge around what it truly enables That is in today's business environment Collaboration based on a shared or common ledger is becoming increasingly vital Especially in the last two years when you're seeing so much is needed To address friction and issues and disruptions in the supply chain Which is calling for more advanced collaboration amongst trading partners And hyper ledger is an excellent foundation for collaborative business and provides a lot of the plumbing needed to build collaborative solutions and in my view you will see an increasing occurrence of hybrid Hyper ledger based solutions to improve business collaboration So today I'll cover a little background around on ibm Next we'll go over some stats that indicate priorities for supply chains And how it says change today We'll look at what are the key conversation points on these change priorities And we'll cover why a fresh approach is needed So all this is necessary for you to draw a linkage as to why hyper ledger And so we will touch on a solution that strongly aligns with this approach and namely ibm protrus And the value it brings to participants and then last but not least the main reason why you're all here Is to look at some of the case studies and we'll look at q and a so before we actually dive into it I'd just like to make a disclaimer statement that all customers that I mentioned In today's presentation and all relevant details in this presentation today Is sourced from publicly available material? Therefore at the time of watching some details may have changed. So just keep that in mind Although the topic is ibm full trust If full trust is a marketing brand of ibm transparent supply solution Which covers every kind of supply chain not just food And transparent supply is an application within our supply chain intelligence suite So with all that in mind, let's get stuck in So who is ibm? I'm sure everybody's heard of the brand ibm And what it does in addition to ibm being the original code contributor And continues to be a major maintainer of hyper ledger fabric Last year ibm open sourced additional hyper ledger fabric code to increase The adoption or the strength of enterprise adoption of enterprise strength blockchain Furthermore, you may have seen that ibm earlier this year has been ranked as number five in top hundred And innovative supply chain companies We're not just a technology company, but a very large supply chain that operates over 175 countries The key differentiator and this is an important one is that the top four are all consumer companies As in amazon, apple, pepsico and missley And ibm is not a consumer or cpg company So how do we get to number five over the over 10 years ago? We began a supply chain transformation The story is fully available online if you lack a link to it. Just let me know And so we began this transformation after facing significant disruptions by 2019 We had received Quite a few awards for the innovative use of artificial intelligence and blockchain In our own supply chain and became a cognitive supply chain Reducing our disruption response time by about 90 percent In the supply chain world the days of solely focusing on optimization for lowering the cost to serve seems to have gone making way to a new set of priorities So let's take a look at what one of those those new priorities So as you're fully aware that covid environmental and social disruptions have really highlighted The importance of supply chain. It's has shown the spotlight or amplified issues in supply chain that have always been there But it's just emphasized it As I said pre covid there was a focus on taking costs out, but now the agenda has completely changed There is more than sufficient evidence to point that resilience agility and sustainability is the new agenda So if you look at the two sets of stats on the left of my screen the economist intelligent units surveyed 400 senior supply chain and procurement executives and their research found that Disruptions have incurred substantial financial costs around six to ten percent of annual revenues As well as reputational costs in terms of customer complaints and damage to the brand In fact 60 percent of the respondents agree that redundancy and resilience in their company supply chain are more important than speed and efficiency And then if we look at mckinsey's insight On the right on on buying into the sustainable value chain They suggest that two-thirds of an average company's environment social and governance footprint aka esg Lies with their suppliers and esg performers enjoy faster growth And high evaluations and other players in sectors by a margin of 10 to 20 percent And strong esg credentials drive down costs by five to 10 percent as these companies focus on operational efficiency and waste reduction Research insights from the ivm institute of business value indicate that 50 percent of consumers say they're willing to pay a premium for sustainable brands That's 62 percent of consumers say they're willing to change their purchasing habits to reduce environmental impact So, you know, who's driving the sustainability agenda? So consumers are driving the agenda brands are reevaluating their purpose Investors are now focusing or using sustainability more specifically In terms of determining using esg directives to determine whether an organization is a good investment as well Regulatory pressure or for traceability anti-slave trade provenance issues like ensuring efficient product recall is also on the increase Australia is one of those countries where It's there's really a lot of pressure to implement traceability in the supply chain And so there's two sides to the sustainability coin, right? There's performance and compliance then So how does uh, let's take a deeper look at how those priorities actually impact people's Business operations and what are the key conversation points around that? So firstly, we have resilience and agility is improved by increasing digitization to reduce business friction Which can reduce document exchange times. It can reduce errors disputes and reconciliations Can improve visibility of inventory across the entire value chain I tend to prefer using the term supply chain value chain because supply chain often Yeah, in the supply chain world people operating in the trucks and sheds environment tend to use that term Supply chain as meaning trucks and sheds, but if you look at value chain, it's completely upstream and downstream from an organization That means the suppliers suppliers suppliers and your customers customers customers kind of thing And lastly to help reduce fraud and finally improve brand trust In terms of meeting sustainability drivers, if you look at some of the conversation points there, uh, there's an underlying theme, right? There's still significant wastage in supply chains If you look at the the fresh produce supply chain and you can tabulate what that means For the country that you're living in approximately 30 percent of fresh produce supply chains gets wasted, right? Due to inefficiencies in the supply chain There's new environmental pressures. Um, so there's a need to cut carbon emissions There's a need to maintain compliance internal governance and compliance from an external regulatory standpoint There's an improved need to improve and maintain product quality, which also reduces wastage And there's a need to verify product safety So generally we need traceability and transparency, but across the full value chain And this only can really happen when there's advanced collaboration And information exchange in an ecosystem Which brings me to my last point You know to really build resilience and sustainability organizations can't do it on their own It has to be a team sport And this is an important thing about what we're talking about today around shared ledger, right? There has to be an underlying cross-cutting Foundational infrastructure that underpins this resilience agility and sustainability And so that's driving a business model innovation By being more collaborative and establishing new partnerships And these undoubtedly will uncover new opportunities and grow market share So graphically if you look at you know, what the uh, you know the current approach is and it's quite antiquated if you If you understand fundamentally that no business is actually an island And this has always ever been the case. This is not new news, right? Every business is part of an ecosystem of business or trading partners, right? So if you take a bird's eye view of what happens in the supply chain ecosystem And keep the perspective that this is from every business that's operating with these trading partners It's got trading partners on either side of its business And there's multiple tiers of suppliers customers third party logistics companies financial institutions and so on So the kinds of activities that happens in this information exchange model is Trading relationships are established and maintained physical objects are created transformed and transported assets are deployed and maintained Business transactions are conducted Imported documents are exchanged and money changes in hands, right? So supply chain is not just about the movement of goods, right? There's a lot that goes into it It's quite complex, right? So what's the challenge? the challenge is that If you look at this particular example, we're looking at participants in a food supply chain So, you know traditional systems We are designed for a world where trade was focused on multiple bi-directional interactions between organizations So information was exchanged between pairs of trading partners Case in point the edi world was about exchanging Business transaction information between a buyer and a supplier or a sender and a receiver like a purchase order shipping notice of invoice So in this model, there's a lack of connectedness and visibility And it's the result of fragmented data across the supply chain Where data is siloed within each organization. There's no end-to-end traceability and poor information sharing This is a multi-party visibility issue which creates significant inefficiency across the ecosystem It's one of the biggest reasons why there's so much wastage in the supply chain And and most often, you know, you might find goods sitting in a port for two weeks waiting for the documentation to follow Paper-based documentation at that So this is far-reaching impacts in some industries such as inventory issues, over-production Forecasting stockout issues or surplus stock in the wrong places, for example So all these issues collectively adds to business frictions and disputes dispute resolution between Parties is a slow and tedious process. It looks takes a lot of human resources Often impacting business performance resulting in wastage high cost inability to reduce disruption response time and ultimately Customer experience So given this multi-party style pairwise interchanges and interaction the business friction is multiplied and amplified between a business and its trading ecosystem With a modern contemporary approach It is it is one where members of a trading ecosystem are leveraging a trusted Transparent and shared business process built off a shared or common ledger or a single source of truth So hyper ledger is the foundation of that shared ledger This is one where participants can co-create records And transactions and share it multiple times rather than sharing it bi-directionally Of course with the right rules of visibility and security in place Friction is reduced due to removing the need to share information in pairwise exchange Disputes are reduced as information is co-created and everyone has access If they are permissioned or entitled to having access to end-to-end visibility of supply chain events Where the product has come from what's happened to it? Where is it at the moment, etc? So IBM food trust is a business solution that adopts this contemporary approach How it works is all participants in the ecosystem conduct their various activities Around physical events and business transactions and they record these in a secure manner In the hyper ledger based solution as owners of the data. They are full control or who sees what information This all happens by an easy set of easy to use options like direct capture uploads IoT devices integration with systems via apis and so on Most importantly, all of these events are captured using international standards Such as GS1 so that interoperability is built in And every the important thing is every participant captures this information as they derive value for it So there's motivation for people to actually capture this information As you can see in this picture logistics is a critical segment or segments in the end-to-end process And logistics providers provide direct derive direct value from this traceability And can also use it to provide value to their customers as well So food trust provides secure access to end-to-end food supply chain via specialized modules And these are for easy onboarding for tracking and tracing For providing instance access to digitized documents for providing advanced insights like shelf life risk, etc And it's got extensive apis Food trust is more than a technical solution. Sorry. I've skipped a slide bit It's more than a technical solution. It is a network. It's been a network since 2016 I just Removed customer logos from this particular slide, but it's been growing exponentially and most importantly. It's a network It's a network where everybody Derives value from it So looking at the value to participants as I said every participant Derives value from it and there's roughly about eight different reasons for an organization To use a solution like this Earlier this year I published a LinkedIn article and the title is traceability. Is it real? Please do go and read that article. It explains these benefits and these value statements quite succinctly the important thing here is Many and you'll see in the case studies as I walk you through the case studies Out of the eight reasons there's all nearly always one or two priority reasons why an organization joins IBM transparent supply of food trust And most often Yeah, it might be a completely different reason to their trading partner, right? For example a fresh Uh, produced supplier might join for a different reason for the retailer because the retailer might Join because they want to ensure freshness of produce to their To their consumers Whereas for the grower or the supplier the issue for them is that if the product perishes While it's even on the retailer's premises Um, sometimes there isn't enough proof to show that the product was in good condition when it arrived at the retailers premises So the cost is actually pushed to the supplier. So the supply's reason would be is to Save save costs and not underwrite, uh, the wasted issues on the Friction based Issues in the supply chain So let's look at the the overall Results that we've we've we've gained from most of our projects So I regard transparent supplier food trust as one project because it's it's one product But you know IBM's conducted over a thousand Thousand blockchain engagements, right? Um, so some of the key results is Um 97 percent reduction in document flow 96 percent perfect order conformance And 99 percent improvement on traceability speed and I'll talk you through one of the case studies where Uh prior to the pilot we did with them in 2016 It took them seven days to trace a particular product end to end Whereas when they put once they had all the data in food trust to 2.2 seconds so on to the, uh Before sorry before I get to the case study. So here's another qr code You might want to scan that on your phone and you will get a consumer's view of An item Whole wheat grain pizza And you'll be able to see the ingredients using that pizza You can click even click on the ingredients and see where those ingredients came from You'll see some details around the facilities and you'll see some details around the certification means that that Those either facilities or products have uh have gained all over all the time I'll just pause for a minute to give you an opportunity to scan that qr code You might want to save that later because I've got another qr code at the end of this session And we just got a question, uh, will we will you share the slides afterwards? Will you be able to share the slides? I'm happy to to share it to the community. Yes Great. Thanks So let's take a look at the case studies. So, you know, uh whilst as as I said earlier, um, you know All the conversation points are applicable to every participant Generally, there's you know, one or two priority reasons why they use a solution and I'll try and emphasize that in each of the case studies So the first case study is uh walmart And they started the pilot was with mangoes and one of their biggest challenges was leafy greens Which can be the source of food-borne illnesses like lestiosis And so walmart wanted to take pro proactive action to ensure That they have optimal response in the case of an outbreak because you see the challenge is not just Tracing down to where the product came from You have to do that as well as tracing well where else to the product go to So that you can conduct an efficient recall So we did the pilot with them in 2016 And they've been as I said, uh, they've been able to cut their trace time from weeks to seconds And within a short time within a year, uh, they launched an initiative to have all their supplies of fresh leafy greens Onto this solution This enabled them to proceed their fda's recommendation for adoption of real-time tracing technology after the 2018 romaine lettuce economy outbreak So for walmart their use case was around provenance quality and safety and Some of their participants are producers distributors retailers and consumers So essentially they wanted to create a secure supply chain monitoring for product quality and safety monitoring The next case study is a local australian one. It's with antinello produce. They're a fresh produce distributor They connect to a number of farms And so their challenge is Often an incorrect product variety labeling and all relevant product data are mostly Paper-based and very difficult for them to attain this by the growers supplies and agents and it's not often timely So the challenge was to align their supply chain for immediate response to for this information So we they conducted a pilot Um For watermelons and now they're launching an initiative to Onboard their other products. They were able to cut their trace time down from weeks to seconds as well And they anticipate that this will deliver incremental growth with their retail customers So their participants are mainly growers other distributors and retailers They wanted into an traceability from farm to distribution center to consumer Their use cases is to reduce friction provenance and also incremental growth the next case study is car for car for found themselves in a situation where Consumers were demanding more information on food than ever before And they lacked easy access to this information and more importantly ways to share this with their consumers They partnered with us to trace Select products or to leverage QR codes on those products and trace them For example, consumers can select can scan select brands of chicken to learn information about origin feed antibiotic use, etc They announced that they increase revenues because of this transparency and improve their brand trust And in stronger relationships with consumers Which created an halo effect for other consumers So they it was more about creating a trusted supply chain to verify product quality And for them it was also provenance and brand trust The next case study is raw seafoods And so essentially and this is in the Nordic regions They the small seafood producers Wanted to differentiate themselves in the market by investing in best practices There's a lot of consumer confusion With regards to Seafood consumption. There's a lot of labeling challenges in the seafood market, not just In Norway. This this is a challenge around the world So raw seafoods wanted to use food trust to share information about the scallops origin The date of harvest the quality and the quality with their supply chain partners and so They the results for them was they received a premium for quality And the restaurant front of the house is now in power to drive sales and engage consumers So for them basically it was to generate higher margins on trusted products by enabling consumer verification Their use cases was provenance freshness authenticity The next use case is coffee connect and I'll explain why this is slightly different to most of the other use cases So, you know coffee commodity prices having dropping making Coffee production cost prohibitive, right and farmers have started to switch to more lucrative crops And generally as we know only a miniscule proportion of coffee profits go to farmers and average of several cents per cup of coffee So farmer connect is using The transparent supply solution to book and be able to private blockchain platform. So we are enabled we're able to allow A customer or a business partner to create a private Platform outside of full trust using the same application So in this case consumers gain visibility of the end-to-end coffee supply chain And the early adopters Include jms muckers and so on but why this model is slightly different is that the Client was able to create an application that front-ended full trust and enabled The solution to be monetized because when a consumer Purchases a cup of coffee And they like that cup of coffee. They can find out who the farmer is and they can actually tip the farmer Right, so this is an amazing model, right because now it connects. It actually connects the consumer With the actual farmer, right, which is very unusual in the supply chain world So for them the use cases was provenance consumer engagement inventory optimization And the coffee network involves farmers co-ops traders roaster roasters retailers consumers And certification organization. So you can see the multi-party network The last case study i'd share with you is the vigneshaw wine network And i've chosen this case study because it demonstrates the relevance of full trust use cases across other industries such as wine manufacturing Mining pharmaceuticals, and i'll share some links for you to actually go and look at other case studies out of this Outside of the ones that i've just shared So, you know with the wine network, we all know that global wine supply chain. It's pretty complex. It's pretty unpredictable Supply chain members often know the identity of only the player directly upstream and downstream Communication across the supply chain is very inconsistent at best and consumer feedback Very seldom makes it way makes its way to the wine maker And you know, it's very easy for wine to get cooked Now this doesn't apply to your five dollar wines that you find in the supermarket, right? This applies to when a wine connoisseur spends a significant amount of wine money on wine They want to create a peace of mind that You know, they can understand what's happened to this wine as it was being transported across the supply chain You know, where where were the grapes grown? What was the soil conditions? Um, and and what is the environment at the time it was growing and so on, right? So this increased value Of the data and insights for all members and so The participants in this network includes vineyards distributors retailers tech providers consumers um And you know, it's about creating a secure supply chain that monitors environmental conditions for our quality Not outstanding What I haven't mentioned is that we know in the wine industry. There's a lot of fraudulent transactions, right? So this is about ensuring the authenticity of the wine as well In in addition to provenance traceability and transparency But it's sure there's a trademark on there as well because that is That is uh provisioned by an IBM business partner called e provenance And so they've built a whole lot of other application capabilities around What uh full trust provides or transparent supply provides as a foundational traceability platform for capturing events business transactions as well as documents in the supply chain um, so those were the case studies I Put up a QR code for you here. This QR code Takes you to the IBM website for transparent supply um, here you will find a significant amount of videos Not outstanding. You can just search for full trust and transparent supply videos on youtube and you'll find Uh, a whole lot You'll be able to see use cases and you'll be able to see value by industry and there's other resources as well Notwithstanding, um, you know, if you link back to me on on linkedin you can ask me questions directly You know, here's my QR code again and also You know, we can connect and you can email me as well Over to you. Julian. I'm happy to take questions. I'll just turn off my And I'll stop sharing okay All right, anybody got any questions. So actually we do have a couple of questions um, I think, um Pist you want to ask the question or do you want it? Why don't you ask the question? Sure? I'm happy to ask it so I I'm very interested in the idea of traceability across the supply chain and in particular I'm curious to understand more with hyper ledger and applications if that's been applied to to government specifically um, and I'm thinking about customs and sometimes the data with customs not being transmitted I have a very efficiently to different shipping lines or the terminals and so I was curious if you can see in any Case studies relating to government adaptation Yes, so, um There's another IBM solution called trade lens And so trade lens is also built on hyper ledger Uh, trade lens Has extensive coverage of all trade documents that exchange by trade participants So this includes uh buyers suppliers bulk cargo operators carriers, whether the carriers are land based Whether the carriers are c based or a based or whatever Um, primarily all the carriers join, uh, trade lens But customers can also join trade lens. There's two modules in trade lens. One is trade lens core Which covers all these trade documents The other one is trade lens e bl evil of leading And evil of leading is you know, that's a significant issue because typically with evil of leading there's a buyer and supply involved and there's, um Two banks involved and generally what happens is, um, it's a it's a massive uh, you know Concurrent digital exchange problem because typically when the goods, um leave Via the carrier The carrier needs to see that it needs to see evidence that the goods have been paid for So generally the the bill of leading acts as a ticket For conveying, uh, uh, you know proof That the owner or the holder of the ticket actually has paid for the goods So what actually happens is multiple parties are involved in the transaction to ensure payment has been confirmed And the transfer of that electronic bill of leading a ticket So that when the carrier actually spots that ticket, they can actually release the the goods to the buyer They know that both banks have received, uh, the the The evidence of their transaction and money has changed hands conclusively So trade lens is is used, uh, in that, you know for that for for solving that problem and, um There are many ports around the world are also using it And so customs organizations can actually use, uh, access trade links So the difference the fundamental difference or the change in the business model year is you know, um Compliance burden on businesses to lodge information to accustomed authorities overly high, right? So the value of this is the regulator if they're permission For accessing the data they go and pick the data up, right? And this this conforms to a basic philosophy or principle that, um Compliance should be embedded in everyday economic activity, right? So the primary thing here is business trade should be facilitated And so what happens is, uh, what trade lens? It means that business can Continue concluding their trade using trade lens and the regulator can pick up pick up the data Which means that compliance is embedded in everyday economic activity Make sense Yes, thank you Levine And there are other other ones like gsp in the global shipping, uh, which is based in in Hong Kong as well There's a few other the trade lens. Yeah famous Yeah, yeah, in fact, um, I if you hook up with me out of this call, I'm happy to share information and give you urls Around the way you can see what the trade lens network is like which carry is on boarded which ports are on boarded and so on It's all transparent, right? So I'd be very curious I was seen sometimes with some carriers data transmitting and some not and i'm curious if that has anything to do with Some being registered and some not being registered Yeah, I mean Hyperlegic gives you the opportunity to actually enforce Strong rules of visibility and you know, everybody's data is on there But not everybody gets to see everybody else's data, right? Which is the value of it, right? Okay, I see Yes, who's that I can't see yeah, thanks So this was a very nice presentation. Thanks for the use cases also uh in one of the use case, uh, where uh Sipper can keep the coffee maker. I mean the coffee farmer Uh, what's the chance that the wrong data of the coffee maker has been carried into the system? And a follow-up question is the As this is blockchain based and blockchain security and reliability comes Only if they are widely distributed So if it is uh, I mean how it is widely distributed. So So I want to join then can I join alone or do I have to have Part of a big system Yeah Okay, there's two questions there, right? So, you know a wrong data being uploaded. Look, there's many ways to validate the data. Um, you can close the loop Uh with the data by equipping people with field service applications On the mobile phone And you can use that to scan and that would scan the geolocation It would scan the date and the time you can add a picture to it And then that can uh, you know, you can upload that data via the application, right? So you can close the loop on that And then there's also technology that can actually Examine the product using artificial intelligence as well, right? So those things are are possible in addition to efficient and effective labeling of the goods So it's a case of, you know, what's the overall architecture and how do we actually Look at the complete end-to-end threat model in the supply chain and how do we actually plug those threads, right? The whole idea here is not to build a utopian solution The idea is to look at what is the threat model and how do we actually minimize the the threat in the system? your second question, you know on joining alone you know you If if you put your data up onto a transparent supply of food trucks You must have consumers of the data, right? You must have a trading partner upstream or trading partner downstream Who will gain value out of it, right? You don't as a single organization if there's nobody going to be consuming your data Then there's no point you using a solution like this, right? So it is of value for the entire network And generally it's important for an organization when they're joining To actually speak with their trading partners and say look my data's up there. It's of value for us to all join Such a such a solution because we all get value out of it, right? That makes sense Oh, yeah, yeah, so that means I have to talk with my partners and then do I have to make a Private blockchain among us No, no in fact in fact with transparent supply of food trust You don't actually need any blockchain knowledge Right, there's a very easy ways for data to be uploaded. There's a user interface And because not everybody's sitting in front of a computer once they're operating the supply chain There's also the opportunity of batch uploading tempted the documents or spreadsheets Then there's also an opportunity after you've done pilots and proven your process and worked out your your processes And the right three points where you're capturing the data. There's always the ability to integrate If you have systems, there's always the ability to integrate them via apis. So all the functionality in the product is exposed by a risked apis Naturally, you need secure secure keys and credentials to actually Use the apis as well Okay, so This is a blockchain node. Then who is owning the nodes? Where are they? So food trust is hosted by IBM We also We also have a governance council That that is That has members of third party organizations such as retailers and other food trust members and participants And certainly we can host nodes for for customers and Why it's important to have the ability to for To have the ability to host A node on behalf of another party is say if two organizations two enterprises have A node of transparent supplier or or food trust then they can Participate in unique business process between them Word via a private channel So whilst they they can share data with their broader supply chain If there's any unique business process between two organizations, then they can Encode that process In a in a in chain code leveraging a private channel if that makes sense Okay So no, my whole point is the majority of the nodes are owned by IBM Then how it is then it would be better if you have a normal database and So Yeah, not necessarily they're they're all built on reddit open shift containers and so Um, we will announce whether that would be made available on other cloud environments as well So as you know, IBM has a strategy for hybrid cloud and a lot of our software Are built on reddit open shift containers, which means it can run on any Reddit open shift containers can run on any hyperscaler environment So even on premise if a customer wants to implement reddit open shift Um within their own linux environment, then they can run IBM containers but But it full trust is not yet available on third party cloud providers yet Okay Thank you. Thank you very much Julian, can I ask a query? Sorry, Julian. I think you muted Oh, okay If you put your hand up, please please put your hand up if you want to ask a question or you can just ask a question Sam, please go ahead. Yeah uh, yeah, uh, wonderful session as such not to know about IBM full trust Julian and uh, uh, the uh Yeah, so my query is uh this one actually uh, see we have different amount of parties and you know vendors beans around that and you know, uh, how you know, we are executing it with you know, suppose, you know, if there is a failure in any of the you know, uh, the middleman party, uh, what type of you know, like, you know, is the you know, is it all being, you know, configured only on the smart contracts or uh, the thing is like, you know, if there is, you know, any failure in the middle like, you know, where, you know buyer needs need not want to aware or the seller need not want to, you know, It's been the failure could be in any of the, you know, middleware layer and how it has been, you know, totally been when you say like, you know, everything getting transparently it has been getting recorded can the buyer or seller can able to view that, you know, this is the failure, you know, it has been occurred and in case of, you know, like who carries, you know, the entire ownership or sometimes what happens is like, you know, uh, uh, there could be a delay in shipping or there could be a delay in, you know, getting the products done or, you know, there could be, you know, some certificate or getting missed or something. So how the entire, you know, things being taken care and, uh, you know, if there is any failure scenarios, how this particular interest handles it as a whole? That to be honest is a subject for a whole entire discussion, right? I don't think we have, I don't think we have time to actually go through that yet, but I can say that none of these issues have actually occurred today. So, um, you know, I'll just summarize quickly. It's all about how we ensure that the onboarding process looks at the end-to-end journey that each product takes, right? Every product has the unique journey and it's a case of engaging the participants in that unique journey to actually capture all the right data, uh, pertaining to that product, right? Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for listening, Julian. Okay, Sath, any follow-up? You okay with that? Oh, we've got Ramesh. Sorry, yeah, Sath, please. Yeah, no, nothing, Julian, because, you know, I'm just trying to see that, you know, uh, where, you know, if there is any, uh, type of, you know, live, uh, transactions or, you know, it could, any type of, you know, audit logs where, you know, it gets stored or, you know, to capture it. So that's what, you know, I was just trying to check it out. No, it is, yeah, look, look, yeah, look, all the, all the, all those issues are addressed. Um, I don't think I'm at liberty to discuss the actual architecture of a commercial product on this call, right? If that makes sense. But in the open source community, we have lots of these kind of discussions, right? So we have a, actually we have a supply chain, trade finance community, which we discussed, I think, from, you know, from the most open source public blockchain to the most private, you know, we, we have a whole spectrum. So please go. So just, so just, so just FYI, um, you know, even my earlier answers that are provided, those are all available on extensive help on the IBM website, on the actual product, there's extensive product documentation. And, uh, you can in that, in that, uh, last QR code that I showed, you can go via that, uh, web page, via that URL to the actual product documentation. And you'll see a description around, um, some of those technical details, if that makes sense. Sure. No worries. We'll go through. And Julian, I just know if there is a trade finance community, if they're able to, you know, forward the details, they have to be great Julian. Yeah, yeah. I'll try to link, but just reach out to me, wiki.hyperledger.org down there has all the different we have. So within hyperledger, we have working groups and IBM is one of our members. We have many members where we're an open source computer, we're a neutral party, right? And we build code, right? Within that, we have about 15 different code bases, right? I see people saying, you know, we have public, we have a bazoo, a theorem, a stack as well. So we have a lot of, a lot of great tech, right? In terms of special interest groups, we do pull the community together. And we do have a special interest groups and you look at it there, or just reach out to me and I'll give you the URL. They're on their summer holiday. The guys in the supply chain, but they should come back in September. You can go to our YouTube and you can see the whole history. You can go into our wiki, join it. It's all open to everybody. And we have all sorts of different industries, verticals, that you're very welcome to do that because there are many ways of doing this, right? Sure. You know, some of the stuff that IBM work at Pacific, large organizations, something, one more public network. And it's, I noticed, covering some of those kind of questions we have there, right? So I'm going to go now to some of the, and please do, everyone is welcome to this community. I'm going to go, Ramesh first, and then Matheem. Thank you so much. Thanks, Julian. So in the currently, whatever the we have centralized supply solutions, so how much portion that can be ported to the decentralized supply chain, because that's where the currently the solutions, which are already working and doing good, but moving into the decentralized, we need to complete the whole solution or some part of the solution has to be moved to the decentralized solution. That's where the cost and everything will come to the picture. That's what I just wanted to know from your experience of the supply chain. Now, you can, you can certainly integrate the solution with existing systems. For example, many organizations have the traditional EDI that captures business transactions. And many of them suffer from a long tail problem in that not many of their trading partners actually submit those business transactions via those EDI solutions, because they're proprietary or they use standards in a proprietary manner. So certainly transparent supply can complement existing investments. It can complement centralized solutions. And so, you know, I would say that over time, you will find more and more solutions that need multi-party collaboration will have some distributed ledger component, right? And I prefer to use the word distributed ledger because, you know, blockchain is not the only technology for a shared ledger, right? If that makes sense. Yes, sir. I mean, thanks. Okay. Thank you, Netheem. Thank you for the decision. How does the solution deal with the forgery is like a counterfeit? I think we've lost you. I think he went up. We'll ask about counterfeit goods. I think how do you want to try again, Netheem? We lost you for a second. I think it was a Zoom glitch. Yes, I guess. I'm asking about the counterfeit, yes. And what's the question? Go ahead. Sorry. So look, there's various ways to address counterfeiting, right? So fundamentally, you know, the difference between the crypto world and the permissioned blockchain world is in the crypto world, you know, historically, and it's, you know, becoming less the case now, but historically, the crypto world has thrived in anonymity, right? You can't, it's hard to find out who was behind the particular transaction, right? Whereas in the blockchain for business world, it's more about enabling collaboration between trusted partners or trusted partners or trusted partners, right? So it's a chain of trusted, it's a chain of a trusted network, right? So it's a different business model, right? So that's the first level. The second level is you can close the loop around physical product authenticity and fraud by ensuring you've got the right product identifiers, the right labeling, labeling that would get destroyed if you try to remove it and fix it on some other counterfeiting product. And then lastly, you can close the feedback loop by making sure you synchronize your traceability platform with your automation platform with the end consumer. And the end consumer is the last safety net, right? Because when they purchase the product, they can actually verify that they've actually purchased the authentic product, if that makes sense, right? Unless consumers are looking to buy a fake product, right? So... Oh, thank you, Lenny. Thank you. Next question, Jo. I think we've got a bunch of questions about whether we should be using public blockchains. So there's one here saying why not we use... Can't we avoid on public blockchain using zero knowledge proofs of data privacy? We do actually have a whole bunch of stuff in zero proofs within another hyperledger project, right? Very happy to know that as Alicia. And I think really the broader question to that is, you know, permission versus permission list and the kind of range of difference. So why permission rather than public or kind of a mix, what's your thoughts on that in this space? I think they all have the place, Julian. You know, I don't really want to get into a religious discussion, but they all have the place. They all have a political purpose. I think the decision is based on taking a proper architected decision, right? What is the problem? What are you trying to solve? Why is it a problem? What are the options for solving the problem? What's a rationale for using this particular approach, right? So I think that that's the approach we need to take. Why did we use a permissioned blockchain for this kind of solution? It works, right? There's literally hundreds and hundreds of customers using it. I can't give you the exact number. Tens of thousands of locations that goods are passing through, millions of transactions, it works, right? And so, you know, why move from that model and model that works into something that might be theoretically a better solution kind of thing, right? Okay. I think that was from Alicia. Alicia, and I'm going to have a few questions. Anybody else want to add anything else to the conversation? I think we're nearly, we're nearly at the top of the hour. And the venial boats are still there. So, any other questions from anybody? Do you raise your hand? Well, there is one question I'm seeing, Julian, which I'd love to answer. You know, blockchain is too costly, not scalable and higher cost of ownership. Not worth it, right? No, no. I'd like to tackle that question, right? I think the issue is one of perception, right? I think if blockchain was too costly, we wouldn't have so many customs use, right? So, I would encourage everybody. IBM, although we've donated, you know, there's no difference between IBM Hyperlegia Fabric and Hyperlegia Fabric from the foundation. We've donated all our code to the foundation, right? So, IBM deploys Hyperlegia Fabric on IBM Cloud. Join up, go to an IBM Cloud, create an IBM Cloud account, look at the cost of running Hyperlegia Fabric on IBM Cloud. There's a slight difference between running Hyperlegia Fabric on IBM Cloud and not is because we also do hardware acceleration of the cryptographic algorithms. So, you get better performance that way. But go ahead and have a look. Have a look for yourself and see what the cost is, right? I think people tend to confuse and they had that recent discussion with somebody this week. They talked about, you know, blockchain being resource intensive and costly and so on, right? It's not true. If you're looking at public blockchains, yes. If the consensus algorithm is proof of work, yes. That is resource intensive, right? But with the permission blockchain, it's not, right? So, I think it's, we should just be cautious around making broad brush statements like that and just be better informed. So, encourage anybody, just go to the IBM website, IBM Cloud website and play around with it, right? I think you can get a free Cloud account for a certain number of hours or something like that and play with it, right? So, go for it. Okay. Great answer. So, we can take maybe one. Kashi, unless you come up with a question, we should probably, we're running over the hour, but I'm happy to take a few more questions. Thanks, Julian and Levine. Yeah, just in the sponsor to add to that, Levine, is that although it's a private and permissioned network, when referring to the public or permissionless blockchain, proof of stake, which is not far, it's around the corner, this is a highly efficient energy, efficient form of energy. So, I think, I think we blockchain at large is working out to be quite an efficient source of general purpose technology. So, to add to that, actually. No, I think you're right. Very exciting stuff happening soon in the Ethereum community, right? So, yeah, and this is tech. So, we're continually evolving. We're doing an open source. So, it's not just one IT, it's the whole world working on this. Ethereum, IBM, still very much in the development of Hyperledger Fabric, but there's many, many, many other companies involved in it, right? So, lots of interesting innovations. I think we're only at the beginning of this blockchain journey. So, I'd like to thank Levine for sharing today. So, the real world activities that he is doing with IBM, and there's so many other things. So, and thank you, everybody, for turning up today and listening. And please, as I said, you can do wiki, you can approach me. We're doing an Australian chapter, which, you know, we're doing it in this time zone, right? So, it's an Asia Pacific friendly time zone as well. So, Levine is the co-lead for that. And so, Alisa, reach out to them, reach out to me as well if you want. I'm happy to connect. And this is a community. So, it's not just about us doing it. We want the community for you. It's about we, right? So, anybody can get involved, do presentations, get, you know, learn more and more about the things that we're doing within this community and beyond. So, Levine, do you want to say any final words as well? And then I think we'll wrap up. No, I'd just like to thank everyone for attending, Julian, and all good questions. Thank you for asking everyone. It just helps contribute towards us all learning and understanding the technology better. Okay. Well, thank you, everybody. Take care. Keep safe. And hopefully, speak soon, connect at some other activity. All right. Take care. Thank you, everybody. Cheers. Bye. Thanks. Bye.