 I'm your host, Christine Linders, physical therapist and board-certified orthopedic clinical specialist. Today we'll be talking about how to keep fit and stay active as we age. I always use a silly phrase, motion is lotion. That's meaning that it's important for the well-being and longevity of our bodies to keep moving. If we are forced to be in less than optimal positions at work, our bodies become at risk for strain, degeneration, and eventual pain. It is critical of us to do a counteractive exercise or two to keep our bodies mobile and undo these harmful postures. In this show today, we will learn secrets from two former military helicopter pilots and Ironman triathletes on the importance of posture, exercise, and state of mind to help keep your bodies fit and free from pain as you age. Let me welcome my lifelong friends, Doug Atkins, who currently flies for Boston MedFlight, and Scott Needle, who unbelievably is still competing in Ironman triathlons after all these years. Aloha, Doug, and Scott. Welcome. Aloha. How are you guys doing? Great. It's good to be here. Good to be here, Chris. Thanks for having us. Okay, awesome. So, Scott, I understand you've been working from home since March 1st. Is that right? Yeah, just about. How's that been? You're usually in an office, but now you're at home, I see. Yeah. Overall, it's been good, but, oh, got a cat. Like I explained, one of the big challenges that I'm finding is, as opposed to being in an office where you walk around and go talk to people and you're mobile throughout the day, I'm at a desk all day now, so I have to make it a point to get up and get the heck away from this desk, even if it's just to walk to the other side of the house or to walk around the block. Yeah, that's so important. That's something that I try to talk about all the time. Doug, I think you're at work right now, is that right? So, you may hopefully not have to go out and do anything, but... Hopefully, yeah, I'm at work and if we get a call, I'll have to go, but hopefully for the next little bit, I'll be here. Okay, so your work is at a desk or sometimes in a helicopter, is that right? I kind of work like a fighter. I'm at an airport in Massachusetts with a helicopter sitting outside if we get a call. Like we did earlier today for somebody who had got an injured, we'll go out with the helicopter and pick them up from the outline communities and bring them into one of the great hospitals in Boston. Okay, that's a lot of stuff. When we're not flying though, we're often, we're sitting around the office kind of waiting for stuff to happen. We do have a little workout facility here, but you know, get up there occasionally and do a little something or walk around the ramp where the aircraft is just to stay active a little bit at work, but it's not completely sedentary, but it's not a ton of motion. Yeah, that's right. So, we had talked about the Hilo Hunt a few months back and I know, Scott, we were just talking about that too and I said, hey, was that a problem for you too? And you said, oh yeah, what is this Hilo Hunt, you guys? I think, I know Doug, you explained it, but can you explain it for the viewers? What is this thing that the community is talking about? Helicopter pilots, particularly aging helicopter pilots are known to have lower back problem. The nature of flying the helicopter, you tend to lean forward in your seat a little bit, generally with a slight twist in on your right side to hold the cyclic, which is the stick in the middle that you use for directional control. And you're trying to try to have a very light touch on that, so you tend to put your weight of your elbow on your knee, so you keep a very light touch on your deck. And you also usually keep your feet out on your heels on the deck, very lightly touching the control pedals, and then hold that kind of isometrically for 20 minutes to four hours or so as you fly. And then couple that with helicopters are a whole lot of vibration, so in that kind of odd, slightly twisted isometric position, then you're subjected to a variety of different vibrations, you know, for an extended period as well. So the end result is it's pretty common ailment for folks who fly helicopters to end up with some lower back issues, because you're kind of hunched over and in the Navy, you know, other workplaces in mayfarm choppers in the Navy Coast Guard, the helos. So the helo hunch is a helo hunch. I think it's oh, oh, goodness. Sorry, guys. Oh, goodness. So sorry about that. I was surprised. I was surprised when you said that you had trouble, because I know in San Diego, we were all doing triathlons and running and biking and swimming and doing all these things. And we were also in our, in our 20s and 30s. And so pains that we had were from doing the crazy things that we did for exercise, but you're six, two or three or something. Is that right? I'm about six one. So, okay. It's got taller than you, right? Larger looking dude, so for sure. Well, Scott, you're taller than Doug, right? Yeah, I'm six two. Oh, you are. So you're about the same. I don't know. Been a long time, but what did you guys have problems in San Diego when you were flying back in the day for the, for the Navy? Yeah, I, I encountered another thing that a lot of helicopter pilots definitely got then. I don't know what it's like now, but I gotta imagine it's the same, but they call it night vision goggle neck. So you have a helmet on and night vision goggles. I don't know, Doug, I tried to remember is about two or three pounds cantilevered off the front of your helmet with a one pound battery pack on the back. And then there was another piece that went on the side that was a pound. And it's like looking through a toilet paper tube. So you're constantly having to move your head around at night. And it's just chronic, soft tissue, damage and pain in the upper traps and the bottom of the neck. And that has lingered all these years. We turn about, I'll set out now. Now, now a lot of times they're actually adding a weight to the battery pack that goes on the back of a helmet to counterbalance the weight of the goggles on the front. And then you kind of do weird things. You'll fly with them flipped up sometimes too. So you've got that weight goes into a weird spot as well. And I do that a lot now, especially now that I'm not flying for the military, I'm not using the goggles for entire flight. I'll use the goggles for part of the flight and then leave them, you know, kind of locked up in a ready position if I need them there. So that's a whole lot of a lot more of a lever, you know, working on your neck. So you get them for a while. You can definitely do it. And then, you know, older too, it's the wear and tear shore. But then it's all it's just the one little weird motion. It's not it's not necessarily that I wore for three hours. It's that whatever I did, I turned funny and looked for something and just, you know, feel that little pop or the little tingle and then next morning you wake up and it's there's definitely something there. And yeah, then you live with it for a month. So that definitely happens. I like they do the counter balancing on the on the pack. You know, I wasn't really thinking of the night vision goggles in a helicopter because when I see helicopters flying, I hear them at night when I see them flying is during the day. And I didn't even think about the neck other than the fact that you were leaning forward and having to have your neck kinked so that you could rest your elbow on your thigh and needing, you know, and having that forward hunch posture. I wasn't even paying attention to the fact there'd be a weight on your head as well while you're in that compromise posture. So what did you guys do in San Diego or now Scott at your desk and Doug still in the in the seat of the airplane? What do you guys do now? Or what have you done to combat some of the Hilo hunch problems or this wait a minute night vision goggle neck? Personally, just in terms of fitness, there's just more focus as I've gotten older and I love your comment about how we were in our 20s and our 30s. We're nowhere near that anymore. We're not at this point. Yeah, but I try and focus on functional motion strength and flexibility now as I've gotten older. So less focus like in the weight room on lifting like classic weight movements more focus on being able to move doing body weight doing calisthenics pull ups things like TRX anything that uses leverage and balance and all the rest of the smaller things. That doesn't mean it fixes everything just like Doug described there will be a day where I'll zig when I should have zagged and I have no idea what I did but I wake up the next morning and it's like somebody has hit me in the back of the neck with a baseball bat. I know what you mean and I love that you're doing functional exercise. I think that's fantastic as we as we age it is very beneficial to do that sort of thing. Some bodies can do the same heavy weight lifting exercise but other bodies and maybe it's our bodies as we beat them up so much younger doing heavy miles running swimming biking everything that we did we got to do a little more functional exercises because the the hard weight exercises are hard on our bodies because we used them really hard pretty much all our life up until this new phase. Doug, I think you mentioned to me and we were talking about the heel a hundred months ago that you dodge the bullet with the typical back pain that these guys get when they're retiring out of the out of flying because well you said you thought it's because you bike so much and you mountain bike you know all the time. That's kind of my guess as to what you had to do with it so you know you get a physical as you retire out of the military and you know most helicopter guys have a get some back you know disability from that and I didn't have it I couldn't justify it right in my record. I may have traded it off with my knees with everything I've done my knees are kind of a mess but my back it seems to be okay but I I've kind of credited that I think to do a fair bit of cycling along the way you know both you know road stuff and a mountain biking you know lately I like you know you're talking about functional exercise you know with with the the COVID restrictions one of the things the things that we've been able to do with my with my kids who I have 13, 14, 15 year old boys so I'm keeping up with them but all the team sports all went away but one thing fortunately we're in New Hampshire they've stayed open as we've been able to do a fair bit of mountain biking because the state parks have been open and there's some great parks for mountain biking here and I think a mountain bike is a great functional exercise you know road biking is a great endurance thing but it's it's somewhat limited on the balance your straight line and you're pretty much just consistent in one positioning is cranked it out with the mountain biking you're always maneuvering you may be on and off the bike you put the foot down balancing you're coming here you're cornering you're going over rocks you know leveraging like around locks so it's a constant balance exercise as well as the cardio piece and that you know kind of the strength piece with the legs and then the other it was you know taking the dogs out to the conservation areas and similarly you know to walk trails that aren't necessarily you know paved or you know flat road stuff we're off a little bit on trail so the walking isn't even it's you know rock hopping stepping over routes and all that kind of stuff so again it's always always balancing so that's actually with a with having done that last two months is actually you know feeling reasonably good right now um in that because it's you know it's a lot a lot of balancing exercises more than more than just taking a road bike out and cranking for two hours you know I'm laughing I'm laughing because you're talking about mountain biking and and and Eric why don't we pop up these photos of Scott road biking on that big open road and I'm kind of thinking more about a stationary bike so I it's funny but it's so true with the biking and and all the things that you're saying about having to be functional exercise I've had myself when I injured my back I didn't have access to my road back it's back in Connecticut so I injured my back and I remember going to the gym and sitting on the stationary bike and my back was in total spasm and then leaning forward and kind of stretching it out and just riding easily and then coming back up and I also had a patient in Connecticut a few years back who came in with an acute like hot disk where his back was spasms I had to do the same thing I'm like just pedal lean forward because it actually you could support your arms on something so you're not hanging on your back muscles and you're exercising so it's actually stretching getting blood flow in your back while you're mountain biking and standing and having to portage things while you're road biking long distances you're actually stretching your back because your elbows are fixed on a surface so I love that I think there's a lot of people don't even think let me get on a bike let me go exercise if my back's in spasm because it hurts but it actually can be one of the best things to to break a spasm yeah stretching too it's great with stretching right you guys both stretch Scott do you stretch I do stretch out of necessity so do you do I don't do yoga I bought the next time oh yeah go for it what are we gonna say Doug I'm not gonna dare say I tell you I don't stretch because I know what you'll do to me the next time you see me yeah yeah I'm very familiar with the fact that Doug does not stretch and I remember we did this Scott and I were texting the other day about this triathlon and that Scott talked to me into doing when I was living on the east coast and it was I don't know you swam a mile or something ran road like what 15 miles and you ran for and so Doug and I hadn't been doing a whole lot of anything you're with your kids and dog and walking hiking whatever and of course I was in Connecticut commuting and then standing and moving around at work but not having a whole lot of time to do real exercise so I thought okay I'm gonna start running gonna start biking gonna start swimming but also we've done this a million times over with Ironman's and long distance triathlons it's no big deal so we show up to this race and I remember Doug crossing the finish line and me like run walking through the four miles I hate to admit it but we both said well that was a bad idea because I think about a week or two before we started training I don't recommend anybody do that like we're exercising all the time we're not just sitting we're going to the gym and all that but it was embarrassing and funny at the same time well if you're young fit and well trained it's not really a challenge there you go and that's why I love you guys so uh so functional exercise I'm going to bring up the photos Eric throw up the first photo because I think this is important for anybody sitting at a desk so this is something for the hunch you're slouched forward in your desk over your laptop you're slouched forward over anything you're cleaning houses for a living you're bending forward you can lay on a surface I prefer a high surface like a table or a counter hop unless you have one of those high beds you go face down you pull your belly button into your spine to engage your deep core and then you alternate lifting one leg and the next leg it activates the multifidus muscles that are your deepest spinal stabilizer so it's great for anybody with low back pain because your spine is supported on the surface let's look at the next one okay this is actually a harder one this is the opposite arm and leg exercise or bird dog or all these different names that everybody is talking about these days but what the key here is to keep your belly button pulled in you want to activate your deepest core muscle your deepest abdominal muscle the transversus abdominis and when you pull your belly button in it works the deepest abdominal muscle and then you alternate the opposite arm and the opposite leg that gets your multifidus muscles it also works all your superficial core muscles your rectus abdominis and both of your obliques so anytime you're leaning forward or you have back pain neck pain that's a great exercise to do not everybody can do it because you got to balance on one leg which is why I like to show the other one first and let's flip to one more this is something you can do laying flat down so you lay flat on the floor flat on your bed with a pillow or something underneath your stomach you pull your belly button in and you lift one leg just a few inches off the floor you can also in that same position lift both your arms straight off the floor that's great for your posture great to undo any forward bend I get it too I have to work forward on patience at the end of the day I'm doing this I'm squeezing my elbows back and I'll often lay like on the floor when I get home and do these exercise and I think we have one more for everyone oh yes helo hunch I put this over the helo hunch I used it in my scoliosis talk because I realized that you were going to be leaning on your right leg working on that thing which can tighten like it can shorten all the muscles on the right side of your body but strain all the muscles on the left side of your body so how you perform this exercise is you stand with the opposite side that you've been hunching toward against a wall reach your arm up overhead and drop the opposite hip and don't forget to take deep breaths this is moving your rib cage farther away from your pelvis and there's these connector muscles that are very deep that get shortened when you're sitting in a sideways hunch position left or right which some people do it's to be a caring for a child looking at a microscope all those things I mentioned flying a helicopter so it's important you undo these chronic positions that you're in and you don't have to worry about getting a compression back injury or pain from stenosis or a disc that gets compressed on one side because you have to sit like that all day so you guys are any of those familiar have you done any of you any of those that they look yeah okay yeah some of it just kind of comes naturally those seem like you know doing those by default just kind of stretch it out if it's almost a natural motion you do to lean you know to undo the lower back a little bit so yeah I would have been kind of doing on the fly yeah I would offer just getting older again core working the core is like probably the single most important thing along with the stretching stretching the glutes in the lower back and and just keeping the center of your body strong but also limber and flexible that has made a world of difference can you say that again I should have put some stretches in there I love that I think the flexibility part as we age is one of the things in the clinic I end up dealing with all the time when people have back pain specifically and having to have them hug their knee into their chest with their other legs stretch the glutes or hug it I call it knee to opposite chest or knee to opposite shoulder where you pull it across so that your knee lines up with your shoulder and your foot stretch the deep blue and also laying on your back to do a hamstring stretch is how I will teach people to do because they go to stretch their hamstrings standing up and they're completely rounding at their back because their hamstring is so tight but once we lay down and stretch those things that you mentioned it was critical the lower back no longer has to have all that stress on it so you can strengthen it and stabilize it and go about your glorious aging years with so Scott what are you what are you up to what are you raising now outside of the COVID-19 crisis shutting down some things I'm in awe that you're still doing these long distance well it's it's been a tough year so I had a bad bike crash a year ago and ended up separating my right shoulder damaging my hip concussing myself so that there's a public service announcement always wear your helmet kids because if I hadn't worn the helmet it would have been a different story so the past year has been really focused on rehabbing to start racing again this year COVID happened so first race of the year which was supposed to be last weekend was postponed by a year so you know you deal with it but yeah I still I bike I run fortunately living in Seattle it's all hills so there's no such thing as just going flat for two hours you got still got to maneuver and move and be dynamic on the bike and running here has its own beneficial challenges I think it's swimming that I miss the most but again I can't complain there's people out there genuinely suffering but those are the things I still try and stay as active as I can with not just for physical health but for mental health as well and I think that's an important thing for people with this whole COVID situation however long it goes on is go move around get out of your house you know if you need to put a mask on go put a mask on but get away from your house and go do stuff I think that's I think that's such key it's such key you have to get out and move and I was actually telling when a family member the other day you know hey just go for a walk it's okay to go for a walk go for a walk there's no one around in certain towns you're never going to see anybody but maybe some birds and things like that but go for a walk walking is so refreshing and calming even if it's a slow walk getting outside and getting fresh air out of your space it makes all the difference that's been one of the ironies of this whole situation is now a lot of the places that we would use you know the green space in our in our areas now are crowded um those people are doing that which is great they're getting out but it's you know while working some odd shift hours you know you get you pretty used to I took my dogs out Wednesday at noon time I'd have a conservation area you know 50 75 acres to myself and let the dogs run and do their thing now if I show up there in an afternoon the middle of the week there are 15 cars there you know so it's uh um so it's good in fact the people are getting out and doing stuff and that's great it's just you know kind of changed my paradigm a little bit of uh you know my my abilities to uh just have unfettered access to things yeah no that's true so yeah the the mindset the uh clearing your mind you know with with iron man's and long distance triathlons like we have done uh do you have any any tips or any like inner things that either of you do or both of you do to keep up with the the exercise I know I do and I could share them but uh the mindset for staying active to feel better but also to relieve stress to get out of with this COVID-19 time to get out of the house do you guys have any little mantras that you use or something that drives you when you just don't want to do anything today yeah some of them are silly but they work for me um so when I swim it is purely like a zen experience because I'm focused on body balance in the water which is how you get fast in the water it's not about being super strong it's just all technique when I bike I try and just really immerse myself in the experience of getting the the heck out of town uh we have a great uh rails to trails network in the Seattle area so I can get out into the countryside pretty quickly and I just try to enjoy the experience and truthfully when I run I run angry I just get rid of whatever angst I have and it's just it's out of my body once I'm done with it but I have goofy little things that I say to myself um you know like when I'm doing long distance run every mile has some statement with it like 11 is heaven and oh you know 10 is zen and I have as soon as I hit a new mile I say something dumb like that to myself I love that no I think it's great that's like something that we all can use to do like almost like a mindfulness meditation and get out whatever's bothering you and do something wonderful your body wonderful that maybe not feel good at the time for your body for your health for all of that great that's great Scott so Doug is there anything that you do when you exercise no but so much of my exercise now is tied into um kind of keeping up with my kids and and the dogs to some degree too so um most of my exercise it's you know it's less about I want to log 10 miles of running out that I've done that him recently or something that I would have done when I was training for something and now it's more um you know staying moving and doing stuff but kind of getting dragged along you know I was joking to somebody other day you know we had kids starting when I was about 35 and you know toddlers at 38 or 39 on a big deal and coaching 10 year olds in baseball mid 40s not a big deal but when you already have got a sudden of 15 16 year olds who were like you know captains of their you know swim team and stuff um and you throw a mountain bike at them and then you go try to keep up with them then then you find out you know that that's your uh you're aging so um so but but having that stuff in in you know that I you know I can't you know it's something I I'm not I wouldn't want to give up but not you can't get away from I mean I need you know they my kids need to get out and you do stuff dogs need to go and do stuff like these out and do stuff we need to get out of the house and do it um because the five of us and two dogs sitting in the house together constantly would not work um fortunately we're in an area where we have you know access to good green space um and now the weather's nice too you know we've got some a decent you know yard we have a pool I'll get a pool so we're able to you know get used to that a little bit so just being able to get out and do stuff is key and um it's a different experience from you know going out and grinding you know for training um but you know still it's a way to stay moving and and I got a little more time to um my own time at some point I'd love to get back into doing some more longer stuff but we'll see what shakes out me too me too so we've got we got two minutes left here what uh you guys have anything else you want to add for people watching today on as we age how to stay healthy how to get through the posture at your desk any words of wisdom on anything from you too I would say move I mean I it sounds so cliche but people get sedentary so you don't have to be a triathlete you don't have to be a super mountain bike or a mountain climber just go move just go walk you know do something to get you moving that I think has been the one of my did the adjustments or accommodations I've made now you know in the kind of situation I'm in is you know I'm you know climbing Mount McKinley done Ironman triathlons all that and so there was a bit of a you know I used to kind of working shipping at a big goal doing something big and now it's more like okay no just go walk an hour in a conservation area with the dogs and that's a good thing to do and it's not I mean I don't need to you know don't need to be me trying to climb you know Denali or working you know I'm Denali I can take my dogs for a walk you know and come actually get a decent work out of doing it and you know feel good get outside like said through the head and you know you know you have a good experience and keep moving so yeah I think that's great and however you're able to do whatever works for you find what works and keep moving that's right and both of you just queued up for the for the title of my show movement matters so thanks for that we're out of time thank you so much Scott and Doug for coming on and sharing your wisdom this is a lot of fun it's a lot of fun to see you guys again and you too for all of you watching watch this again go through some of those exercises you can rewatch all the shows on on YouTube they're on there for you to watch for free smell some flowers take a walk look at the birds do whatever you can to find that peace count 10 zen 11 heaven if you need to while you're walking to clear your mind and as always life is better when you listen to your physical therapist and so I hope everyone has a wonderful day we'll see you in two weeks aloha