 And welcome to Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We broadcast live every Thursday from 2 to 2.30 in the downtown studios of Think Tech Hawaii located in the Pioneer Plaza. We focus on successful stories for a business in Hawaii. We've heard of all the challenges. There was a lot of news in the last few years about how difficult it is to do business in Hawaii. There are some individuals and businesses that have made a go of it. And today we've got two of them on the show today. We're going to talk with Lorraine Mina Toyishi. I got, you know, I had to practice that a little bit. She's got her own firm. She's a PhD and she specializes in historical preservation of buildings and I'm sure she can do a better job at explaining what that means here shortly. But then she brought a guest with her that I'm sure all of you are going to recognize. Lorraine, would you like to introduce your guest? Yes. This is Paul Kosasa, CEO of ABC Stores. Very good. And everybody has seen an ABC store, I'm sure, you know, even when they're traveling. So congratulations on your success. Thank you. It's great to have you both on the show. Now, can you explain how now you've been on the show before and you've talked a little bit about preservation and some of the work that you've been doing, which is very important in Hawaii. How did you and Paul get together and decide to work together? Well, I got a call from Paul because he has a couple of historic buildings that he wanted me to work on with him. So we're working on two buildings right now, one in Waikiki, which is a residential apartment complex and a historic store on Kaua'i called Sueoka Store. Very good. So you've been working with Paul, you've, Kaua'i is always an attraction to me. It's always, it's my favorite island. I love going there. Can you describe a little bit about what's going on on Kaua'i? Sure. Several years ago, the people that are familiar with the Sueoka Store, it's located in Kaloa Town. The generation that's running the store right now decided to move into retirement and I happened to have a common friend, a broker, if you will, that connected me with the Sueoka family. After a lot of plate lunches and discussions, we came to an agreement that we would preserve the Sueoka market and for me personally, I think that's a great idea that not only you preserve the market, but you try to preserve the character of the town. And so I asked Lorraine, who's the expert in preservation, to help us with that. Very good. And you are one of the few people in Hawaii that actually specialize in this area, right? Yes. That's true. So that's a pretty nice little niche for you. Yes, I like it a lot. We've been doing it for a long time and we really love to hear the stories. We went with Paul to visit the Sueokas and interview them and talk about the history and kind of their participation in Kaloa Town. And that was a really great story. And we actually are putting the store on the historic register right now. Wow. And is that an involved process? Yes, it is. We have to talk about the history and significance of the store as well as the architectural characteristics. And as we move forward with any kind of renovation, we want to make sure that we're retaining the character-defining features of the art. Which is one of the keys that you want to do for Kaloa Town. Correct. You know, for me, Kauai is still fairly pristine, unlike Honolulu, which is fairly urban and built up. And I think because Kauai, you want to try to maintain a certain branding of Kauai, because that's what visitors look for too. They want to go to a place that is charming and has a lot of character. And you can do certain kinds of renovations and developments that are in alignment with the character of the area. So my challenge is to be able to create or recreate the Sawia market so that visitors and locals alike would shop there. That's very good. That's a big attraction. And that's basically why people come to Hawaii, is that they want to see that and feel that and experience that. That's great. You know, we need to make sure that we always have that, I think, throughout Hawaii. I mean, we talked a little bit earlier about how things have evolved in Kailua and that it used to be a small quaint little town. It's kind of grown up a little bit. It's changed over the years. So and that's something that you helped the entire state with, right? Yes. Yeah. Try and do that. I really like the Sueoka store. It was built in 1923. And the Sueokas have been there since 1933, so they have been there for a long, long time. Now, Paul, you also have a lot of other stores around Hawaii that, you know, I don't know if you're involved with any of the work out there, but you've got some stores that you try to fit into the environment and the culture that they're located, right? I mean, that's important for ABC stores. Well, in Kapa'a, in Kauai, again, we developed the coconut marketplace. And we opened a store in December just recently. And we tried to maintain that character and the flavor of the community. I think it's a good thing. I think it promotes a certain walkability, if you will, even though we have a parking lot. But my goal is to see how we can have people drive less and walk to the corner store, because that's how we got started. My grandparents started in Kaimaki. And in those days, you know, it was horse and buggy, but everybody walked to the store. And then you had a lot of other businesses open up small storefronts. And, you know, that kind of flavor would be nice to have, especially in Kauai, which is sort of untouched yet. Yeah. That's why it's, again, one of the fair places that I like to go to. And it's becoming popular. I think more and more people are beginning to connect with Kauai. And I know that the visitor counts are starting to increase. That's all good, I guess. Preserving the historical nature of the buildings is a very lofty goal. And I guess a very good, positive one. How easy is it? I mean, some of these buildings are old. We've got compliance issues. I mean, how do you go through the process of taking a look at an old building, getting them designated as historical, and then doing the upgrades and the work on it to make sure that everything's in compliance with current rules and regulations, but you don't lose the nature of the building itself? I mean, that's got to be a challenge. Well, a lot of these buildings are older, but they've been upgraded through the years. If you take a 1923 building, it has gone through changes and even some structural modifications. So it's not like we're taking really a 1923 building and bringing it up to 2006 code. In many cases, we're really just upgrading it from a 1986 renovation to 2006. You know what I mean? A lot of times, our modifications, if they're under 50% of the value of the building, we don't always have to comply with every single code. We do always want to make sure that we are compliant with ADA codes because we want it to be universally accessible, but there's some leeway there. There's a lot of ways to hide structural upgrades, too. And that was kind of where I was going with this, is because you've got the appearance of the historical building that you want to preserve. And I guess, I remember watching a documentary on how they're renovating the White House, and they almost seem to have a building within a building, and they're rebuilding from the inside so you can't really see what's going on from the outside. And that sounds pretty complicated, but what I'm hearing is maybe you don't have to do that every time. Not every time. We're not the White House, right? So sometimes there's a certain amount of funding available, and we want to try and work within that. When it is a large project, like I said, and you said, you can hide structural, mechanical, and electrical upgrades pretty easily within the double-wall system. And that's what you specialize in. Right. Very good. Have you begun the process out in Kapa'a yet in renovating, or no, Koloa town? No, not yet. We're waiting for it to get on the National Historic Registry first. And then we'll come up with some plans. I haven't come up with any plans yet, but we're just kind of thinking about it. Very good. Is that a long process to get on the historical preservation list? It's about a year, I'd say. It's a process. It is a process. I think you have to pass the state first, right? The state board has to approve it. And then that makes you eligible to apply for the National, right? That's right. That's right. Do you have benefits to go through this? I mean, you go through this to get the designation. What does that mean? Well, there's tax benefits. My purpose is not for the tax benefit, you know, for when you upgrade. My thing is that if it's on the... I want to try to be, not say the pioneer, but once you get the first building on the National Historic Registry, I'm hopeful that the other landowners around us would also think about it and try to think about how they can keep Kalua Town as Kalua Town. Nice... It's a nice, quaint place. Very good. One of the, I guess, challenges, is it from your experience, easy for the banks to finance some of this when you're going through this renovation? I mean, it's historical building. It's an older building, but it's got value, and then after the renovations, it's going to work be worth a lot more. So I guess the banks shouldn't necessarily have a problem with this from your experience. I can't speak for the banks. I think for us, we're fortunate that we're a credit-worthy company, so that wouldn't be an issue, I think. But for maybe small business owners, mom and pops, that's a challenge. That would be a challenge if they desire that, if they can get a loan based on what their net income is, it might be a little tough. That's when the historic tax credits become pretty valuable because it's a 20% tax credit. So if you're construction... They change the amount of renovation? Yes, the construction cost. And 20% is really what the banks want, is even a down payment for construction loans, so it balances it out. It really helps affordability. That's good. I think it's important for people to know these kind of things, because they may be in a building that they want to do something with, but they're not quite sure what it is that they can do, and having these tax credits and having people like yourself that's experienced through the process could be a big help. Because of the complexity of this, that's why a lot of mom and pops, when a larger developer comes in and offers them good value for their parcel, they don't want to go through the hassles, they don't want to go through the process, and so that's when it becomes a challenge. That's what happened in Honolulu, in a way. So it really changes the complexion of the city. Sometimes not always for the good. Sometimes, and sometimes it's very good, but you know, it's... Well we're going to have to take a short break. And when we come back, maybe we can talk a little bit more about the nature of your business and what you do in more detail on some, maybe some of the projects you've got, and maybe same thing for you, Paul. I can talk a little bit about ABC and it's certainly evolved quite a bit over the last 50, 60 years. But this is Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We're going to take a short 60-second break and we'll be right back. I'm Pete McGinnis-Mark, and every Monday at one o'clock, I'm the host of ThinkTech Hawaii's research in Munna. And at that program, we bring to you a whole range of new scientific results from the university, ranging from everything from exploring the solar system to looking at the Earth from space, going underwater, talking about earthquakes and volcanoes, and other things which have a direct relevance, not only to Hawaii, but also to our economy. So please try and join me one o'clock on a Monday afternoon for ThinkTech Hawaii's research in Munna. And see you then. Hi, my name is Bill Shaw, our host of Asian Review, coming to you from Honolulu, Hawaii, right here in the center of the Pacific Ocean. Asian Review is the oldest of the 35 or so shows broadcast by ThinkTech Hawaii. We've been in production since 2009. Our goal is to provide you, the viewer, with information, breaking information about events in Asia, Asia being anything from Hawaii west to Pakistan, from the Russian Far East south to Australia and New Zealand. We hope to see you every Monday afternoon at 5 p.m. Welcome back. This is Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We're here today talking with Lorena Paul, and we're talking a little bit about the preservation of Hawaii and some of the historical buildings. In during break, we just started touching base on a concept that was new to me about establishing actually a community or a downtown area that could get a district classification, and I found that fascinating. We've got some towns here in Hawaii that's got a community designation for historical location. That's right. There's Chinatown, which is a historic district, and Wailuku also is a historic district, and we were saying that in Koloa in the 1980s, they inventoried the town to be a historic district as well, and that helps preserve the characteristics of the town. It provides what we're talking about, tax incentives for redevelopment, and other federal grants for roads, sidewalks, lighting, et cetera. We don't know why it was never designated a historic district, but it would be great if it were. It would sound like it would be a very positive thing for that community to get some of this federal funding to come in and do some of these things. I'm assuming it doesn't play around too much with the ambience of the community. Oh, no, I think it really enhances the community in many cases. Very good. Well, now your firm has, tell us a little bit about your firm. You've been doing this for a while? Yes, we're established in 2003, so we've been doing this for 15 years. Congratulations. Thank you. And you've got a pipeline of business. I mean, is this a good place to be doing this? Yes, Hawaii has one of the strictest preservation laws, and we have our own state ordinance, 6E, which also is a layer on top of the federal laws of Section 106. Also, there are many tax incentives that are unique actually to Hawaii. So we are very culturally oriented, and our tax laws and our property laws are geared towards really keeping the cultural characteristics of Hawaii. Right, and so now we talked about the communities. I mean, is there an opportunity there for you to get involved in that too, or is that a different animal? The communities have to be responsive to it. They want, they have to want it. And people sometimes are hesitant to be part of historic districts because they think it limits what they can do as far as development. I guess there might be some truth to that, but it also preserves the nature of the community too, so that could be an offset, a positive offset. Yes. Very good. And so now you work mostly with small projects or big projects, or you kind of, it's scalable, and you can do both. Yes, we do all kinds of projects because it's historic in nature. So anything over 50 years old can be considered eligible for the historic register, and that's when we get into the projects. Very good. Now, Paul, you've got a lot of stores all around Hawaii, and I know you go outside of Hawaii, but just talking about Hawaii for a minute. You've got a pretty big presence here. And I guess would some of these other stores fit into this type of model for preservation? Probably not our Waikiki stores. Maybe the Lahaina stores would fall into that. But in Waikiki, because Waikiki is already a designated special design district, there are ordinances that regulate the codes, have our stricter in Waikiki, the signage, setbacks, parking requirements, all those kinds of things. Because the origin of that was back in the 70s, Waikiki was just growing too fast. So the community got together and the businesses, and they went to City Council, and City Council created the special design district. So that's another way of kind of controlling the development so that it lines up to the Hawaiian sense of place, the culture, the environment, all those kinds of things. Well, in the brand. I mean, Hawaii has got a brand out there that we need to preserve too, because that's part of what attracts people to come. Right. And so what we've been doing in Waikiki is we've dabbled in opening a restaurant. So we have a restaurant now with chefs and servers, and we have a burger bar, we have a poke bar, we have pizzas, and we have a bakery in Gelato, and all kinds of fun things for our visitors and locals. It's been a challenge, but it's a new direction for us. And where is this place located? This is in the Hyatt Centric Hotel, which was formerly the Waikiki trade center on Cujio and Seaside. Cujio and Seaside, all right. That's Duke's Lane. I don't know if you know Duke's Lane, which is between Kalakau and Cujio Avenue. And Duke's Lane was kind of just a delivery road. So we've kind of dressed it up and made an outside dining area. Very nice, very nice. And they're going to have some events here soon too, right? Yes, I think the Hawaii Lodging and Tourism is going to have a function over there too. That'd be nice to go over there and check it out. Are you going to be ready for it? Oh yeah, we'll be ready for it. Very good. But this is new for you. You haven't gotten into the restaurant business in the past, right? No, we haven't. But everybody likes to eat, including myself, and drink. It's one of those necessities, I guess. And so when you buy a t-shirt, a t-shirt lasts quite a long time, right? So we have a lot of repeat visitors now. So they want something new, they want something different. And food is a great way to show off our cuisine and our diversity. Very good. Well congratulations on that, and good luck. It's not an easy business to get into. I know, thank you. Very good. Any future plans for ABC? I mean, things seem to be going very, very well. It's any other, you know, you're opening up the restaurant. Anything else happening you want to share? Now we'll be opening more, I would say, the called Island Country Markets, where they have a full-service delicatessen. And on Kauai, we are still kind of in the infant stage of trying to redevelop another property similar to the soya oka property. But I haven't figured out what it would be yet. It's nice to be able to get those creative juices flowing and see what is going to be fun to do. Yeah, thank you. Very good. And you've got a lot of projects in the pipeline as well. And you said you're staying busy, but anything interesting you want to share? Oh, right. I know. You asked me that question. And I'm like, OK, now what are we working on right now? There are a bunch of projects. We're working with the state, with the National Park Service on projects. We have a lot of individual private owners. And like some of the parks that you're doing, are you allowed to talk about that at all? I mean, is there some interesting parks that's going to be opening up, or trails or anything? Well, we're working with the Hono Uli Uli Park, so the Japanese internment camp, and just general maintenance of other parks. Very good. So you're definitely staying busy, then. Anything at the federal level? Is it all state, or are you doing federal work, too? No, federal, yes. So we're an AA company. So we partner with other architecture firms and provide support for historic, as a historic architect, on their projects. And we do have a lot of military facilities that are certainly historic. Yes. Over 2,000 historic buildings in our military facilities. So there's a lot of work. So that's a big pipeline. If you can tap into that, that's going to be good. It is good, yes. So we're going to be wrapping up here pretty soon. Any final words? I know this is going to catch you by surprise, but hiring is always a challenge for both, I guess, finding good talent, good people to come in and work. We have that challenge here in Hawaii, particularly with our unemployment as low as it is. Are you guys looking for good people? Is that something that you're always doing, or what's the status on looking for good people? I'm looking for an architect with 10 to 15 years experience in Hawaii. I've been having a hard time with that. So if anybody's watching. In Hawaii, though. Please. You don't want a remote worker? Yes, and I would like that person to have experience working in Hawaii as well. Yes, yes. All right, well, I'll blast that out to the social media. We'll see what we can get on that. Good luck. Paul, how about you? Oh, yeah. So yeah, it's been really tight with 2% unemployment. It's virtually full employment. But what our focus has been is to retain our people. So the cost of training and orienting them to our culture and our business is very expensive. And so, and we lose people, because we're a service industry, and it's not uncommon to lose people. But to an extent that we can keep them. And that's our focus right now. So yeah, so I'm trying to hire more at the same time as trying to keep the people out of it. And if there was people out there listening, maybe some college students or people about ready to graduate, could they go online somewhere? Oh, yeah, certainly. And abcstories.com, we have an HR link over there. Very good. You can apply online. All right. Well, they can go to my website, too. All right, and that is? MAHawai.com. Oh, that's easy. All right, MAHawai.com. All right, abc.com. Yeah, so if you're looking for a job, right, I mean. All right, well, I'll check that out this afternoon. Very good. Well, thank you both for taking the time for coming in today. Really appreciate that. And good luck with what you got going on on Kauai. Thank you. And especially with the restaurant. Hopefully that's going to just work out really good for you. And we'll have you back again, and we'll talk some more. Great. Thank you very much. My pleasure. This is Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We broadcast live every Thursday from 2 to 2.30, and we focus on successful stories in Hawaii and their owners. So hopefully we'll see you next week. Until then, aloha.