 Hey, GovCon Giants family, welcome to another episode of Making a Giant Podcast. Today's episode, we feature Demetrius Walker of Fido Logistics. Before we get started into Demetrius, I just wanna let everyone know that this is the last month, the month of October, where we're offering our 2.0 bundle program. So if you're interested, visit govconeric.com slash join for more information on our bundle programs. This is the last month before they go up significantly in price. But today we're bringing you this episode with Demetrius Walker and Maria Martinez, where we interview him on his journey from becoming a Marine. He worked at various jobs before deciding upon becoming a government contractor and founding his firm Fido Logistics. So stay tuned for this upcoming exciting episode. All you truckers and transportation people should be watching this intensely with Demetrius Walker and Maria Martinez on Making a Giant. Thank you so much. Today, we're actually picking up making a giant podcast from where we last buffed off and today we have the pleasure of having Demetrius with us. This is Demetrius Walker. He's actually CEO of Fido Logistics out of Alabama and he's actually been with us. I just found out since the same time I started. So we've been around about the same time, the end of 2017. So you are kind of new, but not so much, but it's really interesting to know like how much you've accomplished in the last three to four years, but more so the last year. I think this last year has been like your biggest growth. So we want to know like you're not your secrets, but what made you get into that? It's time, let's do it. And cause you've been very successful. So it's very important for people to know like what drove your success and what has come from it and where you're going from it now. So Demetrius, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. So I gave people a little bit of a story of where you're from but just give us about who is Demetrius? Where did he grow up and where he is now? So I grew up in a small little rural area in Alabama. The city is called Utah, but we grew up in a smaller town called Snotty. It's like very country, you know, as a kid, you know, we had, you know, pigs and my grandmother and grandfather, you know, they, they did farming and had gardens and stuff like that. So. Oh wow. Like you are a real Alabama then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Real small town, country kid, about as far away from government contracting as you can get. Oh wow. That's pretty cool. Honestly, I've always wanted a farm. So for me, it's exciting that you grew up in like with pigs and the farm and the garden and things like that. So you grew up in this small town. You went to all through school in the small town? Yeah, so with the elementary school, right up the road in a little city called Union, Alabama that did high school in the city of Utah. Well, we later combined the high school from Utah High School to Green County High School, combined to both the high schools in the county to make one big one. So well, not one big one, but for one high school. Yeah, and then what did you do after high school? So after high school, me and my best friend, we went immediately into the Marine Corps. We joined the delayed entry program our junior year of high school, I want to say. And then probably a month after we graduated, we was off to Parris Island. Oh, did you always want to join the military or was it something that last minute, you were like, that seems pretty cool. We kind of thought about it. You know, we got together, we was an ROTC. Oh, okay. You know, so we was- So you always had that interest of the military. Right, you know, because it was the benefits. You know, we were looking at the GI Bill and the possibility of going to, you know, attending classes while you're on active duty. So, you know, those were some of the benefits. And then if we got lucky enough to do some traveling, it would have been the ice cream on top of the cake. But yeah, you know, we were trying to just map out, you know, what direction we wanted to go in life. And, you know, the military just seemed like the best way to go at the time. And, you know, we originally, we were thinking about going Army, but the Marine Corps recruiter was a bit better salesman. So, you know, we went to the Marines. That's a good way to see it. Like they are actually just salesmen. They're selling that they are better than the other branches. Right, you know, they're all the same benefits. Yeah, it's all the same. Yeah, that's true. So, you know, one just was a better salesman. And, you know, he came on and said, you know, you come over here, you know, you get a better uniform. The ladies like the Marines uniforms, better than anybody else. Because if you think of it the way people think about the Marines, they're the toughest like people out there. Like to be a Marine, you have to be tough. Go through Paris Island. Go through your boot camp is completely different than the Air Force six weeks boot camp or the Army's eight week boot camp. So Marines, I've heard it's the toughest one. So you made it all through Paris Island. Well, you guys don't really choose an MOS in the Marines. Like I hear everyone's just infantry. Were you just infantry? Well, you do basic infantry training. So every Marine is a basic infantry man. You all get this basic infantry training skills of how to be a marksman, how to survive in the field, things like that. But I went in crazy enough. I went in, I told him I wanted to be an accountant. When I, you know, cause you know, that the recruiter asked what type of job would you like to do outside of the military? You know, you didn't choose to make it a career. And at the time accounting was kind of like a good career field. So I asked him, I said, yo, I like to go into like the accounting and I ended up working in a warehouse. Well, you're accounting. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like a designated, you know, there was like, well, so the accounting field, you know, supply logistics and ended up working in a warehouse for a couple of years. Is that your first like, like way of learning the logistics fields of how things work and operate? Pretty much, yes. Because before that, you know, we had typical, you know, teenage jobs, you know, we would wash cars to make extra money or worked in fast food, you know, stuff like that, cut grass, you know, whatever little handyman job we could do. That's the old school mentality of kids. Kids these days don't do anything to make extra money. So it's changed a little bit. And how long were you in the Marines for? Did a little over four years. Okay. And then when you got out, how was your transition? Did you go right back to Alabama? Pretty much yes, you know, because I was stationed out in Hawaii. Oh, you did got to travel to nice places. Oh, yeah, yeah. We had bounced around to a couple of good areas out in the Pacific area. But, you know, when I got out, came back to Alabama and, you know, because being out there in Hawaii, the cost of living is like insane. So, yeah, if you didn't have one of those high paying GS jobs or something like that, you know, it was kind of hard to survive out there, you know, as a civilian. So I just, you know, came back here and, you know, tried to test the waters, you know, trying to get a state job or government job back this way, which didn't pan out like I thought, you know, everybody, you know, back then they gave me some misinformed advice. You know, they're like, you get out, you can, you know, you can, you're a shoe in for a job at the post office or any type of state or federal job in Alabama. You know, everyone, you know, was denial letters. So I ended up working in some manufacturing plant, some of the suppliers for the Mercedes-Benz plant in Vance, Alabama. What were you doing in the plant? I worked on an assembly line. You know, we were making the door panel systems that go inside the car doors, you know, with the speakers and the wiring harnesses and the rails that the window glass sits in. So we were making those assemblies and I did that for, I want to say, it probably almost about three years. Okay, so you went from wanting to be an accountant, going to the military, and then in the military you got the logistics and supplies kind of thing. Coming out, all you wanted was a government or state job, some job, cause, and it makes sense cause we think those are stable. We think those are comfortable. We think of, like you said, same thing, the benefits that we're going to get from them. And now you come back, everyone sells you on, it's going to be easy. You end up working at a manufacturing assembly line. I'm sure at that point in life, you're like, what's going on? Yeah. What was the train of thought of what is next for you? What are you going to accomplish next? So at that time, you know, kind of had a few different things going on. You know, I was trying my hand at going back to, you know, school, doing online learning. What were you going to school for? Just basic business management. Okay, so you've always had this business mindset. Yeah. You know, and I wanted to find something that, you know, you're going to invest a lot of money into a college degree, something that would have better chances of me, you know, being able to utilize it to get a job, you know, versus some of the other degrees that, you know, you see people get and then they end up working in a job industry or something that's just total opposite of what that was for, you know. My degree is a criminology degree. That is, that's why they say it's a, I got a BS, but it's really a BS degree because what am I going to really do? So yeah, my degree is, it wasn't useless because I used it for a little bit, but it's just, like you said, it's one of those, we get a lot of them got degrees that we don't even think of it being utilized in whatever industry we think we're going to go to. Exactly. So, you know, I wanted to, you know, and there's a bunch of different, you know, manufacturing types, plants around here. So I was thinking, you know, okay, you know, trying to get into the business management degree program and graduating with that type of degree would increase my chances of trying to get, you know, some type of intro level management job. So that's, I did that and wasn't too successful to first go around trying to balance, you know, that work and, you know, family life and, you know, working in those manufacturing plants, we was on a rotating ship. So we would do two weeks of days and two weeks nights and then it would rotate back and forth like that. And, you know, trying to juggle, you know, the school load, you know, didn't fare too well that first go around. So you said the first go around. So they had to be a second go around. Yes, yes. And after I left that job, moved up there to Maryland for a while. My daughter, mom, she had joined Air Force and she had got stationed at the NSA up there at Fort Me up there. So we moved up there for a little while and then I had a friend that was doing, starting his music career down in Atlanta. So, you know, I ended up, we just ended up going down there to try to help him out with that. Yeah, the timing of it just wasn't right. You know, we had some good connections in the music industry, but, you know, the job situation, it was like 2009 and, you know, you had the recession going on and jobs was pretty scarce everywhere. The jobs that were hiring were little temp jobs. I remember one of the temp jobs I did out there, they sent me on like an assignment for three hours and all I did was sweep the parking lot in his warehouse. That was it. And that was, that was, I went out there and then it was like, all right, we'll call you when we got something else. Oh, wow. And I never got a call back. I guess you didn't do a good job sweeping. Well, I thought that did a good job, but they're like, if we could hire you, we would hire you, but. Oh, so you went from Alabama to Maryland. You were not in Maryland for that long then? I was up there for probably about eight months, I wanna say. And then, and then Atlanta, you're going to these big cities. You went from small town Alabama to these big old cities. Yeah, yeah, it's been fun and then right back. And then after Atlanta, what did you do after everything was going on? So over there, I was like I said, we were trying our hand in the music industry. I was DJing, I had a couple of little gigs at some little restaurant, bar and grill. Wasn't making a whole lot of money, especially considering I was going to college over there as well. I was at the Art Institute of Atlanta for sound engineering, because I was wanted to get in sound engineering for radios and TV commercials and things like that. I wanted to get into that field, but the living situation with the job and the high tuition, eventually it just came to a head. And I say, you know what, man, I'm just come back to Alabama, get myself back together. And I ended up re-enrolling back at the University of Alabama, got back in around 2010 and I started DJing out there to help support myself. Got some really good gigs, making a pretty comfortable living doing that and going to school and eventually finished up my degree. Uh-huh, did you finally get it in business management? Yeah, double majored in business management and marketing. Okay, so now you have the nice piece of paper that people tell you you have to get a cushy job. Right, that's what they say. That's exactly what they say. So now they have this double degree, like what are your plans next? So once I got there, I was working back at another supplier for the Mercedes Benz plants up there. And they were a logistics company. I was working there for a few months. And then I applied for a team leader training program at a textile manufacturing plant. And, you know, just just sitting around poking around on Indeed, I applied for it. And probably like the next day, the human resources lady called me. We set up a couple of phone interviews, eventually did a couple of in person interviews and got accepted into the team leader training program, which was an entry level management position in that company. OK, and so this will take us to about what year now? That was 2014. OK, so you did that. You have you were like, I'm in business management. I'm going to get where I need to go. What has changed from that perspective of that? You wanted that job and how did you even find government contracting? All right, so I got accepted into the team leader training program and eventually I was awarded full time team leader position around 2015, like the early part of 2015. I was awarded a full time, full time team leader position. Did you feel successful then that you actually did something great? It was a little bit of a cyber again, you know, once you. You know, your transition from, you know, one part of it. Now you have to, you know, learn the other side of it because you're not in training no more. You know, you expected to lead at this point. And so I did that. I was a team leader for about two years before getting promoted to a shift supervisor. Oh, look at you. Right. And and then once I got that, you know, there's some things happen where, you know, some people had to miss work and stuff. So when they were miss, you know, I was like, I'm going to go get this money, you know, because it's been a it's been a rough few, you know, few years and I got a lot of stuff I need to clear up. I got to get my credit straight and get these stood alone people on my face. So, you know, whenever they needed somebody to come in and fill in, you know, I was just hustling, you know, hey, I'll cover the shift. You know, it have four hours, two hours, the whole shift, whatever, you know, I come in and cover what I could. And I did that for the bulk of the year for twenty seventeen and then towards the latter end of the year, I just had a realization like, how can I keep? Can you can you can you really, you know, sustain this type of working, you know, that's going to say, I'm like, you must must have been like physically just overwhelmed, like just over exhausted of working because you're doing your job, then you're covering their shifts. So it's like, when do you stop? It gets to a point. And I and I've seen it now that I've gone back to like the normal job field. Like these people will work you if you are willing to work, they will allow it and then you just go, go, go. And then one day it's just just like, like you said, one day you come to realization like, what am I doing? Like this, this is can't be what I'm supposed to be doing. Like I am physically tired, like I can't give no more. So it comes to that breaking point for us to open our eyes and think of other solutions. Right. And you know, I was just, you know, I just sitting around it was around the holiday break. You know, I think we're from Thanksgiving shutdown. Some some time when we had some time where I could just sit around and say, oh, man, is this, you know, how long can you sustain working like this? You know, before your body starts breaking down. And, you know, I was like, man, you got a college degree, man. You know, you can maybe use that to make some money on the side. You know, so then I started trying to think of, OK, what can I do part time to offset this money that I'm making on overtime, working all these hours? And I was like, well, maybe I could, you know, consult some other businesses. And, you know, try to, you know, because when I was DJ, you know, you got to come up with ways to market yourself and set yourself apart from other competition out there. So maybe I can, you know, do some marketing and consulting work for some other small businesses, trying to help them out. And, you know, that'll be a way to offset, you know, some of these hours that I'm spending up here and working in this plant. So then that came another question. It was, OK, well, who are you going to market to? And then, you know, toiled over, toiled over, then eventually said, well, the government, the government, you know, being prior military, I had experience as a purchaser. Oh, OK, you know, when, you know, being out in Hawaii, you know, it's it's kind of hard to get stuff out there. And so sometimes we were run out of stuff and we were there will, you know, authorize us to go out in town and buy something from a local company that was on the authorized list. But, you know, you could go out there and you can buy some little parts and, you know, whatever stuff you need until stuff comes in through the normal system that you've ordered. So I said, you know what, man, you know, the government buys stuff from from small businesses and stuff like that. Maybe I can do some consulting work and try to marry you. And that's when I got on YouTube and started consulting, consulting with the government, just at the third. And, you know, stumbled across some of Eric's videos and, you know, just went down that rabbit hole. Everyone says that. Everyone's like, it just started with me finding a video and then it just like goes down a rabbit hole. Yes, yes. And this was, you know, this around the tail end of 2017. And there were some other people videos out there. But the information just wasn't it just like it was so vague what they were telling you, you know, and it was, you know, like every one of their videos was the same. Well, we'll show you like they were trying to sell me something. They weren't, you know, giving me any information to kind of get me moving forward, you know. And so when I came across Eric's videos, his was, you know, eight and 15 minutes long. And, you know, it's like, OK, well, you know, maybe maybe there's something to this government contractor. Then eventually I set up the free call with Eric. And I think that was like a free 15 or 20 minute call or something like that. Set that up and join the course after that and try to try to start, you know, figuring out how to navigate doing work with the government on this side because you had experience doing it on the other side. But now it was time to learn how to figure out how to do it on this side, where you, you know, selling products to the government. Did you know what products you wanted to sell or did it even matter? Not at first. Like Eric, I had started 2020, you know, when I told him I did, you know, aviation logistics in the Marines, they're like, yeah, the government buys logistics services, do that. And I was like, OK, then I got got home. I started fooling around on FBO from back before Sam, I guess took over, you know, these ops. And I got the, you know, searching around and looking for opportunities. And I got caught up in those that shiny light. You know, you see these big construction contracts with the potential for 200 million and 500 million. You like, man, if I could get a consulting client and get 10 or 20 percent of that contract, you know, I'd be set for life. You know, so you went from trying to sell the government just simple products into going down the FBO rabbit hole now and seeing these bigger contracts and you just like forget the five hundred dollars credit card purchase. Like I want the big one. Yeah, you know, you know, you see in those numbers, you know, and I don't think I think that's one of the plus sides of Sam.gov. They just show the opportunity. They don't show the potential award amount. So anybody who's coming into it now, you know, they won't get so fixated on, you know, because I don't have any experience in the construction industry. But I was like, you know, Eric said I could be a consultant and there's some construction companies up the road. And they might not be doing, you know, so, you know, and I had a couple of, you know, sit down with some of them. So the wheels are turning. Yeah, the wheels got the turning and I had a few sit down with a few of the the owners of some of these construction. Oh, so you went out for them. Yeah, I went and went and talked to some of them. I would go to a lot of the pre bids locally here. But those companies, they were making so much money doing these local jobs. They were like, you know what, we did some federal work, the purchase life cycle takes so long. And like, you know, we just come and do this stuff, this type of work with the city and the state. And they had carved out their their share of the market. And, you know, some people once they have it going with a certain like even it's commercial or private, whatever. Like there's like, like the whole thing, like if it ain't if it ain't broken, why fix it kind of thing? Like for them, it's working. But what gave you the confidence, I guess? And I asked this because a lot of people ask, like, what am I supposed to say? Like, how do I call these people? How do I just go out and talk to them? And that was me also. I was very like, I don't want to pick up the phone kind of person. And you just Eric said, why don't you look at this? You saw there's opportunities and construction. You're like, hey, there's some companies. Let me just talk to them. Like, how did you approach them without with the confidence you had? Just, you know, it goes at the pre-bid meetings, they're sort of informal and relaxed. So, you know, you like walking around. Hey, how are you doing? You know, you shake your hand. They were just, you know, a soft introduction and like, what do you do? Oh, you know, I'm I'm I have a consultant company and gave them up my consulting sales pitch. I'm working on, you know, I work with small businesses, trying to get them work with the federal government. And they're like, OK, well, you know, how did you work with the federal government? So, yeah, we're not going to do some market research for you and show you some opportunities. And, you know, we went over the whole process. And, you know, we had a few sit downs and meetings. And, you know, after a while, the text and calls start going unanswered. And then it's like, OK, it's time to find somebody else. You know, but that was that was that was my general approach. Just, you know, and that's still sort of my approach now. Whenever they do have in person events, just try to get in the room with people and get in the room, you know, either somebody is going to come up to you or, you know, you're eventually going to be by somebody long enough where you just feel an awkward and you got to say something to them. Say something. Just, you know, you just got to say something. You said beside this person and, you know, somebody normally somebody else would break the ice. I'm a bit of introvert. But a lot of time, how are you an introvert when you did marketing and you DJ like, aren't you used to talking? And the fact that you just thought had the idea and you went out and talked to people like, well, you know, it was it was something it was something in it for me. OK, OK, if you DJ, you get paid. And if you talk to this person, I might get a deal. So there has to be a reward system or a reason or purpose in order to purpose. You know, you're not the small talk kind of person. Like, I'm going to sit next to you in a plane. You're going to have a conversation with me. No, no, no, no, not, not, not likely. There's sometimes it happens that way. You know, I sit next to somebody on a plane and a conversation. You know, you know, because typically, you know, you sit back, you know, you must say, excuse this, you're buckled. That's not buckled. You know, that's the end of the conversation. And then every now and then, you know, you get somebody that is a little bit more conversational than it turns into something. Yeah, I just never thought you were the introvert kind, just because, like, you you went out for it, you talk to these people, you call the companies, you made that talk. But like you said, if there's something, if the possibility of something is there, like, that's your motivation to even speak to them. So that's a really good one. Right, because, you know, I mean, you don't know if you don't try. But you, you know, I think who is that? Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan, one of those guys said, if you have a 50-50 chance of making a shot, if you take it, but if you don't take it, you got a 100 percent chance. So let me go ahead and try it and let's see where it goes. The worst case scenario, you know, I made an introduction to this person and somebody else comes along and, you know, they might be looking for some type of connection or inside line with them. I could say, hey, well, I met that person over there telling me you got the contact information from me and talk to him about a month or so ago. And, you know, see where it goes. How did you do land any of those construction companies? Oh, no, no. So I had to go back to the I went back to the drawing board. OK, OK, you know, how long did you do that? Try that for I tried that for the bulk of two thousand and 18. OK, so you were persistent, which is a good thing. I like you tried it for a month or the first one. And then you're like, oh, is that working? I can't do it. So you gave it a shot. I was I was I was working at it, you know, and I think probably probably around the latter end of two thousand and 18. I started getting approached by, you know, guys who own trucking companies and stuff like that, you know, they were looking to try to get government work, you know, because, you know, we pick up loads from bases and things like this. And, you know, those loads pay better than the typical loads you get on the commercial side. And I was like, well, yeah, you're right, man. They're like, so, you know, if you get I'm willing to be one of your clients, if you can help me get. How did they know you were looking at government contracting? I was talking on Facebook. You know, OK, we don't advertise your own marketing. You're putting it out there. Yeah. That was the drawing board thing when you went back to the drawing board was your thought process of, OK, it's time to market myself and just see what comes to me now. Yeah, you know, that was more, more so along the lines. You know, see, you know, because I knew some people who had, you know, little side businesses doing stuff. So I was like, well, if I can't get the big guys, maybe I can get the smaller guys and connect them with the big guys. And maybe there's some type of middleman fee I can get out of that of connecting the two. And so I started marketing myself and letting know, you know, doing some consulting work and broadcasting on my Facebook and my LinkedIn and even in face to face conversations. Still, I'm still working at the plant at that time. Oh, OK. So yeah, I was trying to juggle both. And so I was doing that and started getting approached by people that, you know, own the trucking companies. And I said, well, you know, well, maybe there is something, you know, let me see what's out there for the transportation. And so, you know, I started doing the market research. I started seeing how much the federal spend was on transportation services and things like that. And so, OK, OK, maybe this is where I need to go. You know, maybe this is the next one for me. And, you know, doing that, you know, I was getting approached by multiple transportation companies and most of them were small owner operators. I got out of trying to do the same amount of work for each individual company. I say, you know what, I just need to, you know, start my own logistics company and see how I can sub out the work. You know, whenever I come across it, you know, because, you know, when you got a consultant client, you know, you have to market each individual company, you know, and here it is, you know, I got, you know, six, seven trucking companies, this, you know, saying, hey, yeah, you know, we want to do the work. It's all, but, you know, they all like got one or three trucks. So why not combine them and then you are the main person that gives. Right. Oh, that's a very good idea. And so that's what I started touring with that idea. And I got my freight broker authority and platform, my DOT number and got all my, you know, all my requirements to operate as a federal as a freight broker. And I started going down that path. And that was the beginning of February of 2019. You know, had established a new company first off. So I just, you know, established a new company and started working on learning how to do the freight brokering and things like that, you know, because this is all new to you too. Yes. Just told, you know, I got friends that own trucking companies, but, you know, they know the trucking side of it. They don't know the brokering side of it. So, you know, I started going to training and enrolled in a training program. And all this is you're still working, by the way. Yeah, I'm still working, still working, they're working at night from seven p.m. to seven a.m. And I was a supervisor. So typically I had to get there around six, 15, six, 30. And I'd get off around 7.30, 7.45 in the morning. In the morning. Yeah, because, you know, that's that's dedication. And so that, yeah, that was that I spent, you know, my off days learning, you know, go government contracting and and free brokering and free brokering, learning requirements and finding the companies to give me the insurance and the bonding and all of that stuff. Wow, that's having a lot of grit and a lot of perseverance to having to work, not just a job, but the fact that it's overnight and then getting home and everyone's doing life. So at that time, you want to stay up, but then you're using your days off to learn and things like that. So what did you do with the logistics company? Now that you you're learning it, you've got your DOT, you got the insurance, you got everything. And, you know, where the you did your little bit of research because that's how you knew there was an opportunity. It was there. How does that go? So, you know, you start marketing the capabilities, you know, to the different agencies that, you know, you know, buying transportation services and, you know, some of them, you know, you get the typical answers of sinister capability statement and, you know, things like that. And then other ones, you have to meet certain criteria to be able to do business with them. So with with those still waiting to meet those because I have a three year requirement to do work with the SDDC. As a freight broker, I think if you're on an operator, you can start working with them immediately. But as a freight broker, you know, you got to have all this additional insurances and you got to have been business, you know, for three continuous years and your bond couldn't have any lapses in it. It's like, it's a whole lot of it's a whole lot of red tape. Boxes, you got to, you know, check it. So, yeah, I started marketing, you know, my logistic services to agencies and, you know, typically, you know, you get met with some of the answers would be when we have our own in-house transportation offices or, you know, we don't really have a need for that. You know, it was, you know, so you kind of got hit with, you know, I started thinking, well, man, you know, did I make the right choice? But then I ended up coming in contact with some guys that have been doing freight broker for a long time and they didn't have any experience doing government work. And they was, you know, they were at a training seminar up in Birmingham that was with another guy that I met at a previous training exercise there. And, you know, he, the guy that I had met, he said, well, if you all need somebody that's, you know, because these guys said they needed a service table vet to team up with to get this subcontracting deal with this medical supply company. And then, you know, my guy Greg, he's like, hey, I know somebody that I met, you know, up here about a month or so ago. And he reached out to me, like, is it OK if I pass you there? You give you give them your kind of, you're not even there. No, I wasn't even there. But, you know, me and him had, you know, we had, we had, you know, had some conversations about, you know, what he does. He did, he does janitorial supplies and things like that. That he was trying to market to the government. And he was like, man, if I ever come across anybody, you know, I'll give him your information. I said, OK, thanks, you know, and I kind of left it at that. And, you know, about a month or so goes by and he calls me up. And I'm like, hey, what's going on? He's, hey, man, I got these guys. They looking for somebody to team up with for this contract, the transport medical supply. And I was like, all right, man, I'm gay, you know. And, you know, we had a few meetings. I met the main guy, talked to him a couple of times and then met his other two business partners. It was, you know, three of them. You know, they do a consulting company managing transportation setups for for businesses. And, you know, that was pretty much how I got my first subcontract. Oh, so you it worked out? Yes, we started doing that one probably around February 2020 is when we started doing on that subcontract. Wow, how much was it? It fluctuates because we doing we transport the medical supply. So it's based off of how much the medical supply company is shipping because they won their contract with the VA. But far from what I can tell by looking at the statements, it was like a BPA that they won. Yeah, because they're issuing your task order. So that's what he says, fluctuating. Yeah. And so, you know, we're charging them, you know, it's not full of truckloads that we move in. It's less than truckloads. So it's, you know, it might be a few pallets, you know. So it kind of, you know, fluctuates. But it was a way to get past performance. Yes, I was going to say that. That was that was my biggest talk. That was my biggest reason for wanting to jump on it. It's like, hey, I need to pass performance. So that way, when I'm in a room with, you know, these small business liaisons and these supply of diversity people and these contracting officers, when they say, do you have any past performance? And I say, yes. You know, I did you feel when you got that contract move? It felt like, you know, some pressure was all because, you know, you till the end, it's like, when is it going to happen? When is it going to, you know, when is it going to happen? And then it finally happens. And then it's like, OK, now. How do I leverage this? Right? How do I how do I use this to my advantage? Because now I do have some past performance. And when they ask the question, you know, I don't have to dance around the answer. You know, I can say, well, you know, back in 2001, I was aviation logistics and they're like, OK, well, it's. Yeah, it's like, you know, what's going on? So now we can say that man and I can start saying, well, yes, working with the company, we have a contract. We have a subcontract for medical supply company in Georgia. And we're managing the LTL free deliveries to multiple VA facilities throughout the United States. And so that started opening up conversations. OK, it didn't lead to, you know, but the bad thing about that. So as we got that COVID hit. You're like, no, like I just got this one. And so, you know, we got it, which it kind of worked out good for for me, but in bad at the same time, because, you know, the VA still was steady. They stayed open and the company, they did like syringes and stuff. So they were they their business went way up during COVID. You know, they were shipping stuff. So if their business went up, wouldn't you have more shipments to do, though? Yeah. So it was in which it was good for us. Yeah. So what was the bad part? Everything else should that all the other agencies, you know, everybody. So your marketing had to like, you were doing just that one, right? You know, when I was, you know, had some other in person conferences and things like that lined up and then everybody had to go inside and wait until they figured out how to start doing stuff virtually and and like in all of this. And, you know, so that kind of threw a little bit of a wrench in things where, you know, it's like, OK, I'm about to take off. And then, you know, this comes in in a play and it's like, OK, what do I do now? And then it was like back to had to figure out a way to pivot. OK. So what was your next drawing board? So I got back and started, you know, looking at the opportunities that were coming out, the ones that, you know, some of the, you know, some of the contract and I was still working, the VA was still issuing out stuff. And so I started looking at things that the VA was was purchasing. You know, I thought they were purchasing all the PPE stuff, you know, which the PPE I hailed off on the PPE market. Good. Thank you. Yeah, I kind of stayed away from it because it was just it was just a frenzy. Yes. You know, I started I started looking at, you know, like the janitorial work and I think I eventually settled in on working with somebody for document shredding. I teamed up with a lady to start going after document shredding. OK. Contracts. We know we did bid on some janitorial work. I was working with Leilani, them on that one. And I think Karen. OK, I think janitorial. Yeah. So Leilani was on our podcast and she is part of our of our community. And so is Karen. Karen does janitorial and she's also part of Gulfcon. So that is for people that don't know that is how they got connected was through the community. Yeah. So, you know, we were we were starting to go after, you know, the janitorial work and we bid quite a few of them. But, you know, we never got any answers on them. And so, you know, we you know how that whole process goes. Yes, it's it's like you get so excited because you're fine. Someone to do it with and then you you get it out there. You're excited, then you're anxious because you're waiting. And then you get the no and then you get the other no. And so it's very for people that haven't been there. It's heartbreaking in a way. It's like you have to stop yourself. And and that's what I was going to ask you. And how do you keep going? You try the construction. They didn't work out. Then you started logistics learning something new. Then you got this one contract months later. And now you're trying this janitorial things and you keep getting the nose and nose and nose like what kept you going? Just knowing that, you know, I wanted to create something. Wanted to create my own company and build something on my own. OK. And so it's like, OK, we didn't get any nose from the janitorial. We just didn't get any answer. Oh, that's even worse. Yeah, that's the worst. No, at least I know it's a no, right? Yeah, I could deal with it. No, you know, because I can learn from OK, where my pricing was at, you know, see where, you know, we can kind of tweak some things for the next one. But, you know, these ones, it was just like we we put together the proposals and the pricing and we submitted it, then there's no answer. So, you know, we did that, did that, did that, and then, you know, I'm always downloading the new opportunities that come out. RFI's and things like that on, you know, I think it's beta salami and trying to learn that system. And, you know, I kept seeing document shredding, shredding, shredding services, media destruction. You know, I was just like, OK, this is a sign. So let me start seeing. Let me see who's out here that I can team up with and partner with. Somebody, you know, does the document shredding stuff and up connecting with a lady up in Pennsylvania. They had some document shredding contracts with the VA. And, you know, we talked in exchange of emails and we came up with the teaming arrangement. And, you know, we did the same thing. We did a few. Some we got answers back on. Some we, you know, we didn't know the ones we didn't get. You know, they told us our pricing. OK. I know, like you said, now you're learning from what you have to tweak. Well, the lady in Pennsylvania, she actually does the shredding of the documents. Yes. OK. So she provides the service. Yes. OK. Yes. And so, you know, we teamed up together. And the first one we won with her was one that she was already performing on is for, you know, she had it as a small business set aside. They released it as a service disabled, better known as small business set aside. So that's the need now. And so I had the certification and, you know, then we rebid it. She was already doing it. Yeah. She was already doing it. So we just, you know, we did it. We rebid it like that. And, you know, we was able to win that one. Was that your first prime contract? That was the first. That was the first prime. Now, how did you feel about that one? Now, that contract's yours. So that was a very good feeling. Yeah, that was that was very that, yeah, that was way more rewarding than the subcontracting one, because then it was I was able to see the whole process all the way through, you know. And that's what a lot of people forget or choose not to know is that you just don't put a bit out there and then you get a contract. And well, all things are beautiful. Unicorns, roses and all that. Like what comes after it is another. It's a bigger process, actually, because you have the paperwork. You have the start dates. You have this. You have that. Like it's a lot of stuff that goes into it, even if she was already doing it. But now you, as the prime, are responsible for all these other things. Right. And that one got protested. No. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I had to. So I'm like, I'm like so deep in lawyer fees right now. I'm trying to keep it, but you know, it's looking like we got to keep it. But when did you win this one? I wouldn't that one. I want to say March of this year. OK, it's recent. Yeah, that was recent. Actually, actually, my first crime one was for nitrile gloves. I won it probably a few weeks before that one. It was for nitrile gloves for the. What's that down there for the vision nine or vision eight for Tampa on down to Miami and Puerto Rico. All those those facilities with a VA. Yes, it was like it was a BPA for what, like one hundred and thirty seven thousand boxes. Oh, wow. OK. Yeah, still waiting on the town still waiting on the delivery order. But you want a contract? Yeah, that was that was like one point seven million. Oh, that wasn't. So I'm waiting on, I'm waiting on, I'm waiting on the task orders and, you know, I just drop a little line in with them every now and then and say, hey, but I'm still here, you know. But yeah, that was that was like the first one. But at the same time, they didn't they didn't they didn't they have this to be any, you know, any task orders or delivery orders, especially in Florida, Florida, we need we need all everything we can get because things are not. I just read somewhere that our numbers are higher now than it when it was for the outbreak, so you might get a task order anytime soon. I'm hoping I'm hoping because that's that's probably the one that I haven't had a chance to do anything on outside of this document shredding one, because some people protested it and, you know, neither one of those companies were anywhere in the vicinity of the facility for people that don't understand the protest process. So they issue you an award and then what what happens next when they're protesting? So, you know, the contract officer, they issue the award, find all the paperwork and all of that stuff and they, you know, give you a start date. OK, well, you know, the contract officer on this one was very up front. He was like, don't be surprised if you receive a protest notification award letter, a protest letter, because it's very common with the document shredding contracts, which was a surprise to me. I was like, really, you know, like people wanted to come in and shred documents that bad, but he's like, don't be surprised if you receive an a protest on this one. And sure enough, you know, probably two, maybe three weeks later, I get an email from the SBA with the protest notice in it. And, you know, they they were protesting my my award, but my status as a service is able to bid. And, you know, so we put together a response and submitted all the the CVE letter and all of that. But what they did was they coupled the subcontracting rule protest into one, but it's supposed to be two separate protests. So they they were protesting my status as a service disabled veteran owned company and they put in a they tried to loop in the ostensible subcontractor rule protest in the one. But, you know, the guidelines in the far say they have to be two separate protests, and that's where the lawyers come into play. Yeah, I was going to ask, how did you find all this out? The lawyers. Yes. Really good government contract lawyers. You got to get lawyers that under the last government contracting. And I got to cut. I got a firm out of Huntsville, Alabama that I work with. OK. Wow. So have you guys haven't started this one? It's still it's still ongoing under my teaming partner because she's still the incumbent, so they've been issuing her, you know, like one month extensions until all of this gets resolved. Which is I mean, we've been going through this process since March. April, May, June, July, August. Yeah, five months. Yeah. Yes. Just because another company wants to throw a tantrum, basically. And out of all things, like you're protesting the fact that I am a service to save a veteran, like, really? All right. And it was they really what they wanted to protest was the ostensible rule subcontractor rule because, you know, the contract was up in the contract is up in Fargo, North Dakota, South Dakota. It's it's up there. And so, you know, there was there were protests in that. But, you know, we had our teaming agreements and everything already in place that we had already submitted to the contract in the officer. And when they made the decision against us, I said, well, no, I'm filing a reconsideration, you know, because my my my lawyers looked at the decision letter and like, well, that's not right. You know, they can't make a decision based on the ostensible rule clause, because that wasn't the protest. The protest was your status. Yeah, my status, though. And that easily is proven. Like you own the company and you have your duty to inform all your paperwork. So yeah. Oh, wow. So what now? Like now that you have so you've had these contracts, you had the one as a sub that actually you did perform. And then after that, when you had the nitro gloves, which is the million dollar one, which is big, sounds very, very nice. Right. But they had people think like, oh, I get this contract. It's like, no, you have to wait for orders to be issued for the contract. So people need to understand that it's not just. All like, here you go. And here's all your money. Government is the government at the end of the day. And they have their ways of being slow sometimes of issuing things just in case. And it's like, hurry up and wait kind of thing. Yeah, that's the VA. Oh, OK. And the VA, especially with the VA. And now you have the shredding one, which is getting posted. Have you got any others? Um, we did some other ones with the VA. We're doing some got some contract wins for lab and refrigeration equipment. OK. Yeah. Because, you know, I got suppliers that, you know, have all that stuff. What you originally said I would to do, basically get supply them with supply with products. Yeah. So, you know, we've been more and more for pill crushers, the tablet splitters. Got a couple for that couple for lab refrigerators for some VAs out in California. Did some of the COVID COVID vaccine coolers. OK. And the thermometers and things like that. Got a contract for that one for some syringes. But see, you told me all these sad stories. The protests and then COVID hit. And I have an idea, a thing with no task orders, but you forgot all the good parts. They might be small compared to the. Oh, no. But but they're still. There's no a contract. Those are still good wins, you know. Those are very good ones. Yeah, those are still good wins. So, you know, you got to keep it good stuff for last. Oh, because then you're like, I asked you, I'm like, to have you kind of. You're like, yeah, this one and this one and this one. And I'm like, wait. Yeah, actually, dear, some just just finished up on. One with the Marines provided them with some port of parties and handwashing stations for training for training exercise. I've seen those come out actually, you know, those are coming out a lot lately. I'm probably not going to do those anymore. Just it's a little bit of a headache to kind of get them when they're dropping them off. And then, you know, you know, working with some good companies, but, you know, the people on site, when you're not there, you know, they telling the drivers, you know, asking them to do extra stuff. And then you get an invoice like, what is this? And they like, well, you know, this guy told the driver to come back out there on this day. And it's like, OK, well, I'm not, I'm not eating this cost. I'm getting on a contract officer, your guy over there, he told the driver to come back out and service it. Here's an invoice. Yeah, because, you know, I'm not eating that cost. OK, you're being smart, though. You're not just like, oh, but I want to be nice about it. I'm like, no, if it's not in my contract and you have no authority over it, then you shouldn't be doing this. Right. And then, you know, I had to go back and clear it up with the drivers. Like, don't don't do any extra work without it being prior authorized. OK. Yeah. You're using your business management skills here. Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, as you know. Like, it's let me know that those those are cool. But I don't know if I'm going to go after the mortals, but at least not at the moment. I'm working with some other companies that's reached out to me that do industrial tents and things like that. You know, they work with the Bureau of Land Management and USDA. They set up a little substations or whatever for when they have forest fires and national disasters and things like that. So we we we're kind of if I do go down that path again. I'm going to be like the the main management of it. Yeah, you know. And that's what it's very important that you find a good company to be your subs to be your providers, your suppliers, just because if they know their business, let them handle what they need to know. It's it's hard and it's hard because you want to get involved. But at the same time, it's like I like, you know, you know what you're doing. Like, I just told you to do certain things. So things like that. So if you had a few, have you totaled them all up? The numbers in my head. How many do you think you've won? This is about seven so far this year. This year, this year, seven and we are in month eight. Yes. And, you know, I don't want to think about how many I be at all. Because, you know, with the VA, you know, and you put the medical supplies and lab equipment, you know, they come out and, you know, you just know, you get a quote from the supplier, fill out the RFQ, submit it. And then, you know, you kind of just move on to the next one, you know. Yes, yes. And people are like, I'm like, you have to let it go and not think about it. Because then, because I did it the first few times around. You think about it and you think about it and you think about it. And it's just it's going to drive you bananas. Yeah, it'll run your anxiety to the roof. Like, just waiting and waiting for when are they going to answer? When are they going to answer? And it's like, you know what? Let me go find something else to take them. You know, and that's the best way out. That's my best advice. We'll find something else to take your mind off of it. Because, I mean, they have to wait for so many people to approve the final award, you know, it's probably sitting on somebody's desk and they're waiting on funding or they're waiting on, you know, whatever the case may be. So I just, you know, go ahead and get back and look for opportunities. If there are opportunities out there, you know, I start going back to step one with my market research and, you know, reaching back out to contracting officers and small business specialists and just retracing steps and trying to keep lines of communication open. You know, I have a couple of good contacts with some of the prime contractors with like Northrop Grumman and Boeing and, you know, trying to get in the door with them. So trying to nurture those relationships, dropping an email or a phone call or text, any little thing that just try to keep moving the needle forward. And instead of just dwelling on when is this, when is this, you know, when is this decision going to come down? Is it going to give me the contract or not? You know, because sometimes they'll work fast. And sometimes you don't know what happens. It's a long drawn out process. Yes. And so you're sticking to the logistics part of it? Yes. You know, just trying to find ways to marry services and service offerings that are somewhat synergistic, you know, because I primarily focus on doing work with the VA. Okay. So whenever I reach out to a company that is a supplier or somebody that's another service provider, I try to make sure it's something that fits what the VA is by. Okay. You know, that way I can, you know, because right now that's the way I'm, you know, pretty much maximizing and leveraging the certification because the VA, you know, they got to, you know, they got to spend so much money with, you know, the veteran-owned businesses and service disabled businesses. And so trying to just try to maximize that certification with them and keep building up that past performance and doing good work and building those relationships with those contracting officers and trying to just, and in the larger companies, you know, they look to work with some of the smaller ones that can keep them in the door, so to say. Okay. So you're going to take that approach now. Like you use yourself as a small business now. Yes, yes, you know, and I work with some large liquefied gas manufacturers because, you know, the VA buys bulk oxygen and helium and CO2 and nitrogen, all these different lab gases and things like that. So that's been about my next sort of evolution of trying to support that get work from the VA is, you know, we've been working on putting together bids for those those bulk oxygen and bulk gas products and dry ice, you know, because if they make in those, you know, dry ice is like a byproduct of- Oh, see, I would have never guessed. I think with dry ice to like transport food or sages. They use it in their labs and things like that, you know, and I know they use it to keep the COVID vaccines at the temperature that they need to be at. And so we've been going after that type of work through them. You've been busy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of enjoyable to me, so I don't- Oh, I don't, I don't mind it. You know, I like being busy. You don't let it give you anxiety. You actually see it as a challenge, like a game, basically. You know, that kind of leads back to why I joined the Marines. You know, I could have joined any other brand. My mom could have joined the Air Force and, you know, I was like, you know what, I want the challenge. So, you know, everything has always been the challenge, you know, a double major, you know, because of the challenge. You know, it was, I could have just- Government contracting because of a challenge. Yeah, it's a challenge. Oh, brokering. It's a challenge. Yeah, it's the challenge. You know, it's the challenge that makes it rewarding. You know, the money is good too, but the challenge, you know, the satisfaction you get from saying that I did that to me, you know, that is much more rewarding. Are you still working full-time? No, no, I left the job back in October of last year. So, government contracting is your- Yeah, it's all, I'm all in. Okay. You know, it was, it was getting to the point where I was, I was losing opportunities because I was trying to juggle, you know, doing this full-time and working and, you know, when you're trying to put together proposals and things like this and you get your due dates crossed up and, you know, you spent all this time and energy and then you come back, you think on your all day like, okay, I got time to finish this up and put this together. You're like, oh, it was due two days ago. That sounds like something that actually happened, not a what-if situation. You know, and it was, and it was really getting to the point where I just couldn't juggle doing both. Okay, so phytologistics is your now 100% you're all in like in the drawing board all the time. Now you're back to the marketing and your next challenge is up in the air right now in your brain getting ready to go. Well, the next challenge right now, I'm actually working on developing a e-commerce website with all of my suppliers. Oh, that's true, because now you have all these different supplies. A lot of it's what, medical then? You know, you got most, you got medical suppliers, PPE suppliers. Yeah, because you have the syringes, the pill crushers and all that. Yeah, you know, you got the suppliers with the gases and all of that. So now I'm working with my web developer and, you know, we're, we're working on integrating everything into my own website to start making it easier for the contracting officers to purchase. You know, they have some different vehicles that they're using right now. The Minority Supplier Diversity Council, they came to me with this program with the EPS, which is like a procurement system that the Air Force is kind of trialing right now. And so my website is kind of piggybacking on what they're doing, just in case that doesn't work out. Okay. But they're, they have some program, electronic procurement system website that they're trialing with the Air Force and corporate buyers and things like that. Yeah, so they can do the corporate spend with MBEs and your women-owned businesses and women minority businesses and service disabled veteran-owned businesses. So, you know, it's kind of trying to make it a way for those corporate buyers and the, I think it's supposed to be some other branches of the military joining on board with the two. They ended up taking the contract away from Amazon because I know, I don't know, I think we had posted in the group on Facebook a couple of times, Amazon was trialing this government sales directed portal with them. But the Amazon, from what they told me, the Amazon one failed horribly. And so they were the ones to pick up and get that contract from the Air Force and they've been, so far they've been having success with this. So yeah, I've been, I'm working with both of them to try to market those products and services to not only the government, but also the civilian side, because like right now, you know, like, I'm getting approached by so many vendors looking for trying to sell their stuff. It's like, man, I don't have an outlet for you right now. I like the government is kind of not spending money on this stuff right now, not through the open market. So I've got to kind of find ways to make it easier for them to buy. And like you said, if you put it all in one place, at least they know exactly what you could offer. Right. And we try to make it, you know, safe, you know, with all the cybersecurity stuff that's going on with the requirements. And, you know, we know we get to have the systems in place that they can actually use the government credit cards to make purchases. And so that's that's really right now the the next that's the next phase that I'm working on right now before the next next phase. That's awesome. And what are you now that you're working towards that you're building you're on your own like do you feel like you've learned enough to get you going like what has been your biggest take from it all in this last year and a half really where you've gotten all these contracts in you started doing it. It's my biggest take is that it's still so much to learn, you know, because you know, you think you're kind of figuring it out and then you get in a room with some people that are a little more experienced with than you are. And, you know, they kind of drop tidbits on you and you're like, oh man, I never thought about that. That's that's that's always been my recommendation that people, you know, try to get in rooms, these events and expose and get around people that's doing government contracting, they'll usually drop some type of knowledge on you that can help you, you know, I'm not going to say it's going to get you a contract to war when but it kind of helps get you, you know, that much closer. Because this is a big, it's a big industry to not to learn. I got books. Hold on. That's what I was going to ask like any recommendations other than get out there. All right, I got books everywhere. What's this one? I don't know. Can you see that one? Becoming a GovCon expert. Yeah, that's the one that was one of Eric's podcast guests, Emily Harmon. Oh, okay. I don't know if you in Eric Wright, Dr. Wright is on wrote this one too. I got another couple of books over here. Look at all these books, man. It's like, these are all government contracting books. They you do. For those that are listening, there's about 10, 12, maybe 14 books in his hands right now. All those books plus the course and you are one that shows up every Tuesday. No matter where you are in the process, like showing up is always been one of your things because we started at the same time and actually Eric just told me it's like, what's you put in it? Look who shows up every Tuesday. And that is how we're measuring like, yeah, we see that you are being successful at this, but what did it take to get there? Like it took you look at all those books. It took you showing up on Tuesday. It took you working overnight and doing this in the daytime, like you send your days off. What were you doing? You were learning something else. It's not just like, I did it. It's not that you one day you you are working at Mercedes and you're like, I'm going to do government contracting and you got a contract. No, it doesn't. I wish it did happen like that. But no, it doesn't. It doesn't work like that. I mean, you have to put in the work. I mean, that's And withstand the nose and not even the nose, the unknowns of did I do it? Did I turn something good in? Did I not? It took you networking with the different industries. You started with with construction and logistics. And then you tried this and that, like it took a lot of stuff. So like all my respects to you, because I especially when you're working that those night shifts and those rotating shifts and all that, like it takes dedication. And now you're starting to see though, the harvest of it all like, right, right. You know, another one of my suggestions, you know, try to try to narrow down and niche. I know it's this hard, but you know, just don't overthink it. Some people overthink how can they break in? And I'm like, man, chances are you, you've got experience doing something that either a federal person is looking for a prime contractor, somebody, it will purchase those services because they have their their small business goals that they have to meet. And, you know, the, you know, President Biden's administration is mandated that they increase, you know, spending with small businesses. So, you know, and there are some advocacy groups out there saying they want more transparency on the higher growth services, instead of, you know, just giving small businesses, you know, janitorial work where the profit margins is razor thin, you know, they're like, hey, you know, there's some advocacy groups out there pushing for the primes and everybody to be more transparent without their awarding small business contracts, especially with the high profit margin services and things like that. So, you know, find out a niche and, you know, chess is already are buying, you know, something that you know how to do. On top of the fact that you've read all those books, took the course, show up on Tuesdays, you're still on top of the news and the current events that are going on on government contracting. Kind of immerse yourself in this is a sub you can do part time. Like you said, you're all in and you're all in and every single angle of it from your marketing to the contracts to knowing what's going on to even like you said the website you're piggybacking off them, like knowing what is coming along, you're preparing for the future too. Right, you know, and I think there's something that you kind of you kind of have to develop that skill of kind of seeing what the direction of things could possibly go. You don't ever want to be in a reactive state, you know, that's just always been my experience, you know, from being a supervisor, everything else, you don't want to be on the react to be in anything. You know, if you are on the reactive in, you don't want to be so far behind with the reaction that, you know, it's a possibility you just won't be able to catch up and recover. You know, you at least want to be able to adapt when you do react and be able to keep moving. And, you know, that, you know, goes like you said, you know, just staying in the loop, LinkedIn has been a great help with staying on top of things. I follow all of the small business offices for all of the departments. I don't care if it's the department, DOD, DHS, all of them. I follow all of the small business offices that I can because, you know, they typically post updates and news articles and webinars and people you should know. And, you know, that's just a little strategy for staying on top of, you know, what's going on because it's the landscape changes. The procurement cycle takes forever. The landscape things change all the time and it's kind of easy to fall back, fall behind on what's going on in this federal marketplace. Oh, wow. You are, you've grown so much and being that this is, and I've seen you throughout these last few years, but like right now sitting down and talking to you, you are a wealth of knowledge. Like I said, I admire your grit and your perseverance in this. And I wish you lots and lots of more success stories that come out of it because you, like you said, you're fully immersed in this. So any final words or how do people get in contact with you if they're looking for anything, for a mentor, for a mentor to a network to anything else that you want to just share with the world right now? They can hit me up on LinkedIn. Yeah, you know, LinkedIn, I'm always on LinkedIn. You know, I kind of, you know, fell in love with being on LinkedIn. If it wasn't for Facebook videos, I wouldn't be on Facebook, Harley at all. That's my entertainment. Okay. That's a good thing, the way to see it. Yeah, LinkedIn was, has been really good to me too. Like, yes, LinkedIn, finding people and networking with people that you don't know who's out there. Yes. I mean, you can, you can, you can really get in touch with just about anybody on LinkedIn. And so, yes, they can reach me on LinkedIn or they can email me, you know, Demetrius.Walker at FidleLogistics.com. Those are my two contact methods. Any words of advice or words of wisdom to, to the people that are trying to get in right now? Like what advice you wish you had given when you had that moment of I want to get into government contracting? Finding niche and stick with it. Simple. Simple. And if I had to did, if I had a stuff with Eric's advice of focusing on logistics, 2017, I could have saved myself a lot of time, a lot of effort, energy. I could have been, you know, instead of seven contract was I could probably have 70. You could have had pre-COVID and post-COVID. Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, finding niche, focus on that niche, doing market research and check, you know, that's the best advice I can give and try not to get discouraged, you know, see it through. You know, even if it's not the results that you want, you know, you're still learning. You know, it's all about this is a, this is a ever, ever-evolving learning experience. What you did for the win the last contract might not work to win the next one, you know. So, yeah, continue learning. Find a niche. Don't be discouraged. You know, don't fall for bad advice. That's, that's really awesome. And I want to thank you again for spending this time with us for showing up every time and whenever we need you, you are there and for supporting us also in every single way. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, no, thank you all, man. I appreciate the opportunity. You know, I kind of like to stay in the shadows, but yeah, and I appreciate it. And that's why we do this because we want, there's a lot of us that want to stay in the shadows, but even till this day, I know I've been gone for a little bit, even to this day, seeing the emails that people send me. And for me, I'm like, I didn't do big things like some of you guys are doing, but stories like you, maybe someone resonates with you, resonate with who you are, the faculty or the Marine, maybe that you had, we were from a small town with that you grew up with pigs and things like that. One stop, like we're too high school, things like that. You never know what people are going to see. And they're like, yes. And that's what they're going to take. Maybe words that you said motivated them to keep at it to stick with it. And every story that we share for me is very personal because we don't know who we're connecting, who we're touching and who we're motivating to keep going. And like Eric says, three feet from gold, maybe you're, you're right there, but you need to do that little extra push. So I appreciate every single one of these. Oh, yes, definitely. All right. Thank you, Zumitris.