 Aloha, it's June the second, not January the second, it's June the second, 2021. Welcome to What Now America? I'm Tim Apachele, your host, and today's title is GOP Kills the January 6th Commission, Why? And before I introduce my guests, I think I'd just like to try to take a little stab at that last part of the title, and that is Why. You know, Mitch McConnell, his comments about the January 6th Commission and why he doesn't support it and why he actively whipped against it in the Senate, he said that there's going to be no new facts and there's nothing new that's going to come forward and that only the Democrats will use as a political exercise to come after the Republicans for the 2022 midterm elections. So that's why Mitch McConnell didn't want to do it, even though his statement is so very clear after on January 7th, the statement was clear that Donald Trump was responsible for this and there needs to be a reckoning for it. But now there's no reckoning for it, he doesn't want it. So what did Joe Manchin have to say about it? Because Joe Manchin is a critical part of this. Joe Manchin may be part of the amendments, if you will, if the filibuster or some of the real changes or even the elimination of the filibuster. So what did Joe Manchin say about it? So the following, there is no exercise for any Republican to vote against this commission since Democrats have agreed to everything they asked for. Mitch McConnell has made this political position thinking that it will help his 2022 elections. They do not believe the truth will set you free, so they continue to live in fear. That kind of sums it up pretty well. So without further ado, let me go to my guests. Today we have Jay Fidel. Today we have Stephanie Dalton, our Washington DC bureau chief. And today we have Cynthia Lee Sinclair, our correspondent. And Winston Welch, who's not here, who's currently on assignment, he'll be with us next week. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to What Now America. Good morning, Tim. Jay, in addition to what we heard from Joe Manchin and others in the Senate and the House, there was 35 House representatives that voted for the commission. There were six GOP Republicans who voted for the commission, yet it failed. It was filibustered. Was it because they're truly worried about the 2022 midterm elections? Or was it more they were scared of Donald Trump and what Donald Trump wants them to do and how to vote? You have to say both. This reminds me of Ann Applebaum's article in The Atlantic six months ago, where she pointed out six or seven reasons why perfectly responsible members of government in Eastern Europe capitulated to authoritarian government there. And one of the reasons there was a number of them, one of the reasons was fear. And that's a common denominator for the move to authoritarian government. If you saw Rachel last night, she was on the same path. We're talking about a move that's going toward the end of democracy. Talk about a book by a fellow named Ben Rhodes, who was in the Obama administration. Brilliant book. Got to find that book. Just coming out today. Anyway, I was telling you before the show that I think I've figured something out here. So you know what it's not. It's not for truth. They're not but for truth. It's not for democracy. It's anti-truth and anti-democracy, clear enough. And then maybe fear, fear of losing power, fear of Trump, those things I think they're all in play. But what strikes me is this is so similar to the GOP result in the first impeachment. Remember how they blew that off? They criticized the Democrats for the way they did it in the House. And then they voted not even to have a hearing in the Senate. Remember that? And the second impeachment, which was based on the January 6th event, where they just said, no, we're not going to impeach him. Extraordinary after it was so clear what he did. But I don't think McConnell is right, by the way, about we know it all. We don't know it all. There's a whole lot more to know about the GOP members of the Senate and Congress who arguably, allegedly participated in all of this and maybe even fomented it and assisted in the conspiracy. And I don't think they want anybody to know about that. It would be the end of their, at least, their legitimate careers. No, I think when you put all that together and you see how the GOP voted on the commission bill just a few days ago, I think what this is, it's a message. It's a message that the GOP can do whatever it wants. That the GOP, especially Trump, can shoot people. Clearly, felonious crime and get away with it. And that's the message to the base. It's not that it's right. It's not that it's democratic. As a matter of fact, it undermines the country in every which way. It's a statement of power. It's a statement of we can do whatever we want to do. And that has happened how many times already. It's messaging and it's working. And I, for one, am very concerned. Let me ask you, are the Democrats naive to this plausible position of yours? Are they naive and they continue like many times Democrats will do? Absolutely nothing about it. Or do they wake up and say, hey, we are at a crisis at the gate here and we need to take proactive steps to stop it? Almost like what the Democrats did in Texas when they walked out of the legislature on this voting rights bill in Texas, they walked out. They said, this bill is serious enough that we have to protest vehemently against it, not our usual sit in the chair and twiddle our thumbs approach. I agree with you. And not everybody will, but I agree with you. And I think the implication of your question is that the stakes are high. The country is at risk. When you think about it and we hear on America what now, we think about it. And I think that the Democratic Party has to get its act together and take strong steps. Now, we'll see what happens in the house. We'll see what Nancy Pelosi does about a hearing. We'll see about alternative methods of investigation. We have a show called Transitional Justice and it deals largely with justice against atrocities in Africa. And one of the common denominators is that if you have atrocities, the people who conduct them don't want them to be public. That's sort of the tentinning of atrocities. They don't want it to be public. And what has to happen in all those countries in Africa, especially in Sudan, is you have to have a truth commission. You have to tell people. You have to find out. You have to let them know what happens so it doesn't happen again. That's what we have to do now. The Democrats have to do that. So your question about whether they are aware, I think they are aware, but I think they're slightly infected. They don't want to take big chances. I think we all have to take big, huge chances or our lives, fortunes and sacred honor will be forfeit. Okay, thanks, Jay. Hey, Stephanie. Nancy Pelosi made four points of where we could go forward since the GOP filibustered these January 6th commission vote in the Senate. And she said we could either have another vote and do it that way, where they just round the truth up and just vote again in the Senate. Or they can have a House Select Committee be formed and start the investigation that way or let the existing agencies, the FBI, agencies like that continue their investigation and see what information is reported out. Or they can do a combination of all those that are doing current investigations and combine them and consolidate them into one investigation. Now there's one thing she didn't mention and that is the power of the president. Joe Biden can set up a commission of President Lyndon B. Johnson did that just after the assassination of Kennedy and he on January, excuse me, November 29th, 1963, executive order 11130 tapped the shoulders of Earl Warren, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and they had what is called the Warren Commission. So there's another option. What do you think moving forward should be done, Stephanie? Nothing, just accept the vote or should Nancy Pelosi conduct a House Select Committee and fill it with 50% of GOP seats, 50% Democrats. Or as suggested by, I think it was Keith Overman, forget it, just have Biden conduct a committee commission and don't load it with any GOP because it's their sole purpose to block it to diminish the truth that is reported on it and forget it, just let them report the truth and the truth will set you free. What option do you prefer? I gave you a lot, I gave you a lot. We would be less than fair to them if we didn't just Benghazi them all over the congressional schedule. Well, that might be what happens. And that is just the only way to go, but ultimately I believe that we're in much better shape and that Biden is in much better shape to have a commission because what they will do on the deal, they worked out together for a by-camera commission is they will put someone on it who's just so obstructionist that it would just bail, put it down into bog, for as long as it could, like a Jim Jordan or somebody like that would just get in the way of it. So it won't be bipartisan, it'll be just one staggering around after another to try and block the progress. So let's go with the Benghazi model and let them have it how many times even once we get one done, we can do another. But I wanted to mention the NPR has been doing a lot of programming on the history of the African-American in the country and especially in relation to the kinds of atrocities that they're talking about now, like with the town in near Tulsa that was eradicated. And I guess there's one in Florida, if not more. One of the interesting facts that was discussed is that the second amendment was only put in the constitution by the founders because of the fear that there was, that there would be uprisings on plantations and people that were in servitude would get to the point where they would rise and fight. And the second amendment was put in place in order to allow the holding of firearms and the organized militia and having organized militia to handle these kinds of uprisings. And it evolved into only the white people could have guns, I guess men, only the white men could have guns, blacks couldn't even have guns. But they've been up to these tricks since the get-go, the suppression of the vote, the inauguration of the second amendment, which I was really surprised to hear that that was what was in the background of getting that into our system's paperwork. Well, now it seems the uprising would be white, white nationalist extremists. That's the uprising that's pending right now. And they are loaded to the teeth. We have over 340 million guns and we have 320 million people. And we like to look at this January 6th, it's something that has happened in the past and it's, the threat is over. The threat is not over. Just to break into a little segue here, just this weekend we had a Lieutenant General, remember Michael Flynn, the security advisor for Donald Trump and recently pardoned by Donald Trump. He was on a Q non convention. And one of the audience members said, you know what happened in Myanmar, which was the military junta took over the government again, what happened in Myanmar? Why shouldn't that happen here? And Flynn was coded to say, no reason, I mean it should happen. Okay, so here we have, go ahead. He walked it back the rest of the day. Yeah, he walked it back, but the video can't be walked back. Well, McMaster, some of the other leading commentators say, there's something wrong with this man. Ever since he was fired from his position in the Obama Commission, in the Obama administration, where wasn't he the head of the CIA or the DEA or one of those major organizations? And ever since then. He's whipping up, he's whipping up these ideas. So regardless if he's a, you know, a nutcase or not, he's whipping up these guys with a whole lot of weaponry. You know, Liz Cheney said no Americans should advocate support. You know, should advocate, advocate the overthrow of the United States. No one could be doing it. That includes Donald Trump. Yeah, and what's such a shock to me is that there's nothing that is done about any of these things. It's happening over and over. Unthinkable. Traitorious, traitorous. Comments are made over and over that disregarding our system and tearing it down and eroding. Oh, institution. How can this commentary continue on that's not free. There we go. So remember Lieutenant Colonel Eugene Vidman. Who is in the. Yes. Testified before Congress. In the first. The impeachment. Impeachment. Yeah. Well, he said the following. With these sedition remarks, comrade Flynn may have crossed the line. And not be qualified for active duty and possibly for court Marshall as a Jag, which means you're an attorney for the military. But you're not qualified for that. You're not qualified for that. I'm not qualified for that. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not certified only as a Jag. I'm qualified and also happy to prosecute the case. So once again, Mr. Flynn may have crossed the line. Who knows. What, what's going to happen. I mean, who's going to follow up on that. I don't know. Is this a justice department thing or. I mean already there's. With cases, but I don't know, hopefully. If it's happening so ubiquitously around the country, involving so many people doing so many outrageous things and making so many outrageous remarks, do we have the resources to prosecute them all? This is a wave of change, and it's very threatening because we don't have the resources to prosecute them all. Let me go to Cynthia on this. Cynthia, what Jay just said, do we have the resources? Should there be prosecutions? And how fast, if there is a commission report or a House Select Committee, should that be done right away or take Stephanie's suggestion that you bleed it out for two years like the Benghazi hearings? Well, I see, start it right now and then bleed it out for two years. Both, not one or the other in that thing. And if we don't have the resources to do this, then we need to get the resources to do this because this isn't going away. This is the thing that gets me the most about all of this. January 6th is not a one-off thing. We've got, like you say, we've got Mike Flynn out there saying these things. We've got Sidney Powell on TV saying that President Trump is going to be put back in office as the president. And I'm like, what? And I'm thinking. Well, we have reports that Donald Trump is talking to folks. Now I don't know how real this story is. I don't know. So I'll qualify it that way. But he's talking to people saying, I'll be reinstalled as president by August. Is this just a coincidence or is there something afoot here? I think something's afoot because it's a very specific thing that both Sidney Powell said too, in August. And now he's saying in August. So how do we protect ourselves between now and then? And as much as we need that, I should say needed that January 6th commission. In a way, I'm glad it's gone because now we can go forward without this bipartisan drag their feet, get in the way of everything kind of. I mean, they agreed to everything the Republicans wanted. That subpoena power on both sides, all the stuff that they wanted they got and still they voted against. Let me ask you this, the six senators that voted for this and I'll list them off here. Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, Susan Collins of Maine, Lisa Mikowski of Alaska, Rob Porter of Ohio, Mitt Romney of Utah and Ben Sasse of Nebraska. Should they be tapped to be honest brokers in this commission? Or should it just be Democrats only saying, we don't care anymore. We're just gonna report the truth as we find it and we're not gonna be delayed and we're not gonna have the truth diminished or whitewashed. I think that it will be accepted. It'll be more widely accepted whatever the results are if we have Republicans on that committee that goes after this stuff. But I- So who's an honest broker of the Republicans? Lindsey Graham? Lindsey Graham beyond there. Right. That's funny. I mean- Yeah it is. Lindsey Graham, I think that Mitch McConnell, I think Jim Jordan, I think all these guys, Ron, what's the guy that's always, they white haired, I can't remember his last name. Yeah. I didn't think these guys all are, they're not just complicit. They're not just complicit by being silent. I believe they're involved. But the way the Republican Party was so in the same corner, all together on the same page, they would have to have more information in order to be on the same page. So some of them on the outers, things maybe not, but those main core guys, they knew exactly what was going on. We know that Mike Flynn and the Sidney Powell that were both there on the day, what the two days before the commission, I mean, before the January 6th insurrection, encouraging Trump to create a martial law. So we know that there was probably more than just three people in that room, right? I would see there's, the chances are good. And then we know about Kevin McCarthy over in the house on the phone with him, not wanting to be called, I'm sure, or subpoenaed, because he could show his guilt. Okay. Thank you. Yes, go ahead, Stephanie. I had two limitations on when this commission can be launched. Is there a stand? 11 took over a year, over a year to form. So no, I don't think so. But okay, then I say move on and let's make sure we get that bill through somehow that's gonna write these suppression laws. What bills, Stephanie? You can't get a bill through without the Senate. Right. And we still have the filibusters. So there's gonna be no bill. Well, I think that- There can be an investigation by a committee in the house and there can be an investigation under the auspices of the executive. Those are the two possibilities for, and I would say that, that the press not doing anybody any good, they are merely arguing what might come out, what did come out, and the reasons and all that, but they're not actually talking about getting into an investigation, a serious legal investigation. And my metronome theory, it's tick, tick, tick, the days go by and Vladimir is happy with the passing of every day. And so is Mitch McConnell and so is Donald Trump. Oh, speaking of Putin, Speaking of Putin, Jay, the representative for Russia just recently said that Putin feels that these people who are being prosecuted for the insurrection, they're being persecuted. And he supports them, of course. We need to- He should run for the Senate. Maybe he should run for president and he can probably get himself in. If I didn't be listening to my request, get back to what's important. We've got to get the people that can vote voting. We've got to work on that. He needs to work on getting- Stephanie, it's been six months, okay? More, it's been eight months since the election and since the big lie has come around and has been showered upon us daily. And so where is HR one? Nowhere. And I have to say that I blame the Democrats for not moving on it somehow. And the Democratic Party round the country, I think Rachel was making that point last night. The point is that you have all the- There's dozens of state legislatures that are passing anti-voting bills and directed racially and they're outrageous and they are a violation of the Constitution. It's not clear whether the courts will or when will. They'll do anything about it. And meanwhile, the Democrats are powerless. They can't get HR one through. They're not going to get, isn't it clear? They're not going to get it through. So what- Okay, well speaking of powerless, here's a question from Avira, Jane. I'll go to you on this. And that is, why is not the FBI arresting Trump for his seditious planning? Is there any bureau doing anything about Trump? So we go to the powerless question that you just brought up. Why isn't anything being done? Well, I'm going to give you a short answer, Tim. Tomorrow, on America finding its way, we're going to discuss the legal options that are available to make that happen, okay? I can hardly wait. None of us can hardly wait, right? You know, in the 30s, they would call that a cliffhanger. Thank you, Jay. No, but a bottom line is, you know, we have a, what do you want to call it? A democratic mechanism. But if you look at the world today, again, going back to Rachel Maddow, you can see that we are moving in a way that is inexorably taught authoritarianism, country after country. And that's what's happening in the world today. Countries that might've been failing liberal a few years ago are moving under dictators to more authoritarian governments. And I think we are too. Otherwise, this would not be happening. 70 million people vote for that guy. And now the Congress is completely disabled and voting against truth, against democracy every time. So, you know, the question is, is the big question, and we don't have to get through it today, but maybe soon, will this change be nonviolent? Or will it be violent? I'm gonna get- Question, that's a, could be a rhetorical question at that, but that's a great question. But the question is, why isn't Biden dealing with the Joe Manchin issue? All that Jay says is so true. So what should Biden be focusing on now? HR one and getting this guy in line. Okay. What about that? Stephanie, did Joe Manchin learn anything from this filibuster of the commission? Did he learn anything or is he still playing cute? Well, he said he was shocked and surprised and disappointed that nobody would vote for the commission. He did say that, but I haven't heard anything about him since, have you? Well, does that help him become a voice to refurbish the filibuster? Not eliminate it, but refurbish it. Yeah. So why isn't Biden having him up to the White House to have some talk Turkey and other approaches? That's what I don't get because the only thing that counts is getting the voting situation under control through HR one. We've got to get in place to have the federal overlay on this malfeasance. These laws that are wrong and are excluding people. And the only way to do that is to get it through on the vote Biden can have if he gets Joe Manchin on board. And I guess it's cinema too. But nevertheless, well, I'm perplexed about that. Yeah. Why is that not number? I think we all are. I think we all are. And that's what makes us view the Democrats as spineless. They won't stand on their own hind legs to advocate for themselves. I agree. I couldn't agree with you more. Cynthia. I'm just saying, I hope the Secret Service is paying attention to that because this is not good news. Yeah. Cynthia, does the vote to filibuster the commission and the Senate, does that lead further into the big lie? The big lie that Donald Trump's election was stolen and he's the rightful president? Well, I think that we don't. I'm not quite sure what your question was. Well, the question is, does that feed those with the proud boys, the boogaloo boys? Potentially part of 74 million people voted for Donald Trump. Does it further feed there? Does it confirm what they already have been led to believe by Donald Trump is that the election was truly fraudulent and the election was truly stolen from them? Therefore, returning the presidency to Donald Trump with or without violence is a means to an end. And it's valid to do so because they're patriots. They'll be patriots if they return Donald Trump to the President of the United States. Does it feed into that? The filibuster, is that what you're asking the filibuster? Does that further feed into their conspiracy? Oh, absolutely it does. Of course it does. Why? How does it do that? Anything that gives them power, anything that gives them even a minute of cover for the big lie? Because that's what is behind all of this. It's behind the voting, the horrible voting draconian voting laws that are being passed. It's behind the January 6th insurrection. And so if the big lie is still out there, then that means that we're gonna have another January 6th. This isn't the only one. Let me ask you this. Why doesn't President Biden have a special, a presidential, not even a press conference, but an address to the nation? Every president's done it. A special address to the nation. And address the big lie specifically and only. I don't understand why he doesn't do that. I think partly he's driven because he doesn't wanna do that. You're the bad guy, know where the bad guy, know where all the finger pointing stuff, right? I think that's what he's trying to avoid. He wants this whole bipartisan thing. And I understand, I understand it, but by the same token, I think he's wrong. I think he's dead. I do too. And I learned something a long time ago. Never leave a room when someone's accusing you of something you didn't do and you don't address it and you've left the room. And that's what Joe Biden's doing right now. He's not addressing the big white elephant, the big lie in the room. I absolutely agree with you. And I think, and the more it goes like Jay said, you know, with that metronome kick talking away, the further away it gets, the less relevant it will be. So the less sense it will make and then the more partisan it will seem. So doing it now, it would make sense. Down the road, it won't. So I think a lot of time he's gotta do it soon. All right, well, we've got a time and we're gonna go around the table here. Jay, your last comments about the commission or things related to it? Well, I take a page out of Cynthia's book, you know, every day that goes by is worse for the Democrats. They seem powerless. They're not doing anything. They need to take chances. Biden has to get up and make a speech. And the Democratic party has to come together and deal with all those state legislators. It is not doing that. So you get these relatively benign remarks that he makes and you don't get a sense of pushback on this. Now, what's happening is because of the passage of time, I think that the Trumpers are getting stronger and they're coming together. They're networking more than even before. And I don't think it's a joke about August. I think what's gonna happen in August is another run, perhaps while the Congress is on vacation, that's what happens in August, against the government. And the word coup does come to mind. And if we're not prepared for that, it will happen. It almost happened in January. And now the Republicans and the Trumpers understand better how to do that sort of thing. So I think we're on the road to hell. And I think it will be a coup rather than widespread violence, but that I wouldn't rule that out either. What's happening now is really remarkable. One other point before I leave you, and that is this, do you think that those 70 million people all believe the big lie? Do you think that those Republicans in Congress and in these state legislatures believe that there's a need to clamp down on voting? No, they know they're sentient. They went to some school, they know that it's a lie, but they accept the lie because it's fashionable and because it gives them power and it's part of a network and a message coming from Trump that he can do Fifth Avenue and he can do it all. And they buy that because it's not the question of truth anymore. It's a question of whether you accept the message. And to what degree are you willing to accept it for your power? Yeah. Yeah, to what degree do you really love this country? And if your life isn't quite so good, if you have a beef on this or that, then maybe you don't love the country and maybe you're happy to see change in whatever form. This is really nutcakes, but this is what's happened in other countries. Stephanie, your last comments. Okay, I agree with what you all say. I think I don't want to criticize Biden, but I think that we're onto something here and also with regard to the fraud in the election. Why isn't something coming back with, and where did these 70 million votes come from for Trump? And if that's not enough thing to go back and start taking an audit on those votes, let's go back to 2016. Where did those votes come from? Let's take a look at those ballots. So I just think there's things here that can come out and lick these guys with and take it on. I mean, we never did do anything about the 2016 election. Now that's rife with, you want fraud? Let's go find some fraud. I'll bet you we can find that, including- All right. Thank you, Stephanie. We gotta wrap up. Cynthia, very quickly, please, your last comments. I agree with Stephanie and, but it's that whole fight, fire with fire thing. How do you, where's the balance? I'm not sure exactly, but I know one thing. We've got more and more charges that are mounting up and they're sort of escalating also against Trump, right? So that if somehow we could put all of the FBI's energy into that, we've got a few of the January 6th insurrectionists that are pleading guilty and turning state's evidence and they're coming out with, we were just there because the president told us to be there. So these kinds of things are gonna keep mounting but we've got to hurry up and get them done. Yeah, time is of the essence. That's too far. Yeah, time is of the essence. So speaking of time of the essence, we've run out of time here. So I wanna thank all of you, Jay Fidel, Stephanie Dalton and of course Cynthia Leeson-Claire. Thank you for joining us on What Now America? I can't wait for Thursday for Jay's show, America Finding Its Way. I wanna hear the answers, all of them. So join us next week also, Wednesday at 11 o'clock for What Now America? I'm Tim Apacheo, your host and we will see you then. Aloha.