 This is Global Connections, where we talk about things happening around the world. And today we're going to talk about how is the war going in Southern Gaza. And for this discussion we have Dr. Roopmati Kandakar joins us from New York. Welcome to the show, Roopmati. Aloha, Jay. And it's all my pleasure to be back with you. And it's good going in the war and with us as well. So let's- So is this the end of the beginning? Or is it the beginning of the end? How are we doing in the continuum of this war? Obviously, Israel hasn't quite won the war, but there are hopeful signs that it will not in a not too distant future. What are your thoughts? Jay, right now we see that Israel is progressing well, but there's a lot of- Currently, the fighting is in Khan Yunus. The fighting has intensified over there. And like you discussed, the tunnels were definitely flooded with saltwater, and I think the rats are coming out in that. Lots of civilian damage in this war, but I think it was because there were civilian shields, isn't it, Jay? So the blame is all on the Hamas, which used the humans as shields. And it was such a necessary war, Jay. Almost two months into the war, we see that the overall perspective is that Israel needed to do this. Israel needs to continue this to the end because of the foreseeable attack if left unfinished. That is the main crux in this entire war, Jay. And that is what keeps the IDF going. And this network of tunnels was such a discovery to have a doubled area of the city underneath the city. So you have this kind of preparedness by the Hamas, which was there, and which caught Israel unawares in this war. And so many things came as a learning point for Israel, Jay, in this war that intelligence failure, yes, because nobody expected them to attack on such a force. The terrorist attack to be at such a high level was unexpected. And the hostage situation like we saw last time, it was documented for the timing. A few hostages were exchanged. And like your fear has come true, the rest of the hostages are going to be used as, you know, it's going to be a sad point, mostly. But Jay, one story I want to share with you, that there was one circulating that two babies around four years and 10 years, they were being sold by Hamas to another terrorist organization. Has this ever happened in the history of mankind that you have hostages sold to another terrorist organization for future negotiations? I mean, this is such unprecedented stuff that came out in this war against terrorism for Israel that it cannot fathom how to deal with such a situation. So many, you know, it's an asymmetric war. The guerrilla warfare that has been going on with this, it is, you know, the guerrilla warfare is raw. It doesn't have sophistication, like you said. And Israel has sophistication. But these people have used sophistication in guerrilla warfare. The tunnels which we saw, they were self-equipped rooms, they were labs, they were missile launching sites, they were hostage keeping sites, they were their refugees sites for them, you know, everything and anything. And imagine, this was a place where Israel had given them the keys to flourish, to develop, to exist in peace with each other. It was a place zone where they could live side by side. But they misused it. They misused it. Now today, I mean, for myself personally, when I remember George Bush has said that I want to bomb them to the Stone Age, he meant that they were not meant for them. He was bombing into the Stone Age. He was, he was, you know, furious with what happened to his citizens, the terror attack that happened to every country has the right to do that against a terrorist attack. Because loss of human life, which is not involved in a war-like situation, is always unpardonable. And these people came into houses and took hostages, came into houses and killed families, came into houses and, you know, showed their strength. You had rifles in front of citizens. You had people being pulled out of cars and burned. You had people in music festivals picked up. So absolutely no nausea. And Israel has shown its strength. And like we always discuss, domestic politics will always continue. But existential crisis has to be resolved instantly. You know, one of the interesting, there's a number of interesting side points on all of this. And we've heard the United Nations and Qataris, you know, call for a ceasefire. We've heard a lot of people, you know, protesting that the Israelis should stop their, you know, their attack on Hamas. And what's interesting is, you know, the academics and the military people, the authors, the thought leaders of Israel who are there and in the United States, ask a simple question in return. And so what are the terms of the ceasefire? You just stop. If you just stop the, you know, the next step is clear. Hamas will attack again. Yes, yes. You know, that will allow them to attack again and again and again. So you have to have terms. So what are the terms? Well, the terms are simple. You take a known terrorist organization that is responsible for atrocities now and for quite some time. And you have them surrender. You have them terminated as an organization. And then you have all the hostages return. And Anthony Blinken said, if you do that, the war will stop tomorrow. And indeed, that's what the Israelis are saying, that would, that would end the war right now. So those people, including Antonio Qutera as the United Nations and various, you know, college campuses who say we have to have a ceasefire right now, they don't give you the terms, but the terms are implicit. If you don't have terms, you have a continuation of the terrorism, right? Right. Jay in ceasefire and pseudo liberal language means ask Israel to stop. Isn't it? It's not ceasefire means mutually agreed terms and conditions. There is no mutual in this. The pseudo liberals just want Israel to give up the war and let Hamas start again. You know, Hamas is such an exhaustive machinery. It's not a religious movement. It's not a political movement. It's a self-sustained terrorist organization which fuels on funding from Iran from the antagonistic elements against Israel. So they will reemerge. Ceasefire means a definitive agreement that is not in the foreseeable future because unless there is, unless Hamas ceases to exist, there is no ceasefire question of ceasefire. pseudo liberals and students who want to, you know, you know, the flare up this issue that there has to be a ceasefire. Israel has to give up. Tell me those people who are stripped of for their weapon checking. What a fury there was on news. Where was the fury when Israeli citizens were stripped? Innocent people. Innocent people. These are people who are hiding out in tunnels. These are men who are hiding in tunnels. Then the Israeli soldiers need to check them. That is not a deliberate thing. That is a routine because of the nature of operating of Hamas of suicide belts, which they wear. So you can't keep them. So the kind of double standards that the international media sets up and the international perceptions. And I think it's it's come to a point when even a discussion of ceasefire has made Israel unapologetic about explaining itself. Israel has been put into the situation of not explaining themselves, even when in the United Nations, when the resolution was passed to call for Gaza ceasefire, the veto was from the US. But the reason and UK abstain. So this kind of support for Israel is because of a long standing ties and previous terrorist experience by UK and US. They know they will strike back. And it's a reality of international relations day that when you forgive enemy, it reinforces and it becomes it comes back. And okay, for you, United States, the enemy is in Afghanistan, the distance for Israel. The problem is the proximity, the proximity of Gaza to be one house away from you, one fence away from you. So this cannot be left undone and Jay, the tunnels which were up to Gaza city easily can reach other places. We don't know what is happening in the West Bank as of yet. This is Gaza city, the northern part, especially being combed, but Gaza, the West Bank, the other parts which are there, they are still unknown territory. And unknown means one suicide bomber is enough to blow up a field of soldiers. So they have that kind of why they're asking to strip down their undershorts. And there was there was criticism that, you know, this was unfair and, you know, atrocity that Israel would make them take their clothes off. But there's a very good reason for it, because they come out of hiding, and they could be wearing a bomb. And if they detonated the bomb in front of Israeli soldiers, that would be Israeli casualties. Israel has already lost about 100, 100, and it's been killed 100 of their soldiers. So, but I wanted to go into something else too. You know, you and I talked early in the game about flooding the tunnels. And I think Israel has done some of that, but, you know, it hasn't really done it ubiquitously. And I'm not sure why the reasons have been advanced that perhaps it would kill the hostages. It would drown the hostages. Perhaps it would, you know, make the ground unstable and buildings on top would fall into it. I don't know. I don't think there are any really good reasons not to flood the tunnels. And if you ask me today whether I would refine a suggestion you and I made back very early in October, I would flood them halfway because that would be enough, you know, to make the tunnels non-functional and maybe corrode the ammunition and weapons down there and make the Hamas militants leave the tunnels where the Israelis could pick them up. But what is very interesting about the tunnels is a video made by Deutsche about the tunnels in the south at the border with Egypt. And they interviewed a bunch of Palestinian kids who had really nothing to do. They hated school. They would cut classes. They would walk out of classes. They did not want any education whatsoever. What they did instead is with their occupation. And these are kids that are 10, 11, 12, 13 years old. What do they do? They work on the tunnels across the Egyptian border. And they're paid. They're paid by organizations that want to build these tunnels, probably Hamas. And that's the only job they can get. And they do that for every day, every night. And they keep doing it. And they've been doing it for years. This is a long-term project. And the expectation they have is they will continue to doing it for years. So first it started with smuggling and then smuggling weapons and ammunition. What I find interesting, though, is that these kids, these Palestinians, they're not Hamas necessarily. They're just tunnel workers. It's an occupation. It's what's been going on all through Gaza for all these years. And that's how we have this enormous metro of tunnels all over Gaza. It's these kids who are hired a few shackles to spend all day and all night digging them out. It's not easy to do that. But I think that has to be mentioned. They didn't get there because the militants dug them. They got there because these kids needed some money. The other aspect of the money, and I think it's worth mentioning this too, is that prior to October 7, some 19,000 Palestinians, probably mixed with Hamas, had jobs in southern Israel. They would come out and work, and they would help the Jewish settlements. And they would be in the Jewish settlements. And they'd be making notes and taking back information to Hamas about who was where and where was what, and opening possibilities for the attack. And what I find interesting is that the revelation now that when the attack took place, there were Palestinians who had been working in Israel guiding the militants who were doing the killing. They were there helping the militants. It's very troubling. Right now, Israel has stopped all of that. There are 19,000 people are not employed anymore and are not likely to be employed until this war is over. Furthermore, there are many, many, many times that number who were employed in Israel from the West Bank. And that has also stopped. And there is a debate going on within Israeli government as to whether they should ever be permitted back to go to their jobs in Israel from the West Bank. So this has not only affected the economy of Israel. It has affected the economy of all the people, many, many, many thousands who had jobs from the West Bank and from Gaza into Israel to find that the damage is done. It's another example of Hamas not really giving a damn about how the Palestinians are treated. And right now, we find that there are rockets going off from the humanitarian site that Israel has defined, find that extraordinary. Just the way they were going off from schools and hospitals and playgrounds and the like. Furthermore, the Hamas fighters in the South now are not wearing uniforms. They have uniforms. We know they do, but they're wearing civilian clothing that makes it all the more difficult for the Israeli, the IDF to find them and deal with them. I find that's just another example of a human shield. And finally, one more point, and that is that they are fighting from residences. And in Israel, we all knew that this would be street fighting, building to building, room to room. So it makes it all the more difficult for the IDF to go through a neighborhood knowing that there are Hamas people in civilian clothes, anywhere and everywhere in every residential section. And that's part of the difficulty in taking over the South part of Gaza. Yeah, Jay. I mean, this war has been extraordinary. This entire operation has been extraordinary because of the themselves. They have put the civilian shields in front and the civilians themselves are that kind of those kind of people who are willing to give their lives to shield these people. If you tell me if there's a big question, if it is if the Hamas was hiding in Israel, would the IDF would have used the same strategy as they have used in Gaza city? And my answer to that is a definitive yes, because Israel Army gave them 20 days to evacuate. They gave pamphlets, they gave warnings for civilians to evacuate the area. They want to carry out Hamas elimination operation. If these pamphlets and these warnings were given in the area of Israel that we want to carry out Hamas, you know, coming operation, please evacuate, I am sure I am definitive that the Israeli citizens would have evacuated the area. There was a big problem when the Palestine civilians do not want to evacuate. That's the collateral damage that happened. The shafts of the tunnels entering from houses, from hospitals, from schools and people knowing about it but still keeping quiet. This is what is the Palestine mentality right now. Just to go against Israel doesn't matter what is in front of you. The point is you have to be against Israel. So if this same operation was carried out in Israel and citizens were asked to evacuate, citizens would have evacuated. They have. They would have. They would have. The northern border and the southern border also. Correct. Nobody would have said no, we want to stay here only. We want the bombs to come and then we will cry about how much citizens, how much collateral damage and how many innocent civilians you have killed. They were not a single civilian is innocent because all of them knew what they are facing. They were given enough warnings to say come out. Imagine a terrorist organization being given a forewarning, please evacuate. How many Hamas fighters would have run away? And a big takeaway in this war is the number of Palestine of Hamas intelligence militants. We have these people who will give us information now about how Hamas operates. They are the surrendering to the IDF and that is a treasure curve of the operatives because you kind of now have a mass understanding of their mentality of the way they operate. You know that was miss generally missing. We had one or two people who would go undercover and you would have double agents and you would have people who would try to give some information. But now there is a mass your intelligence source that Israel has got. And the more that Israel finds and devs into this, you find that the operatives have been aiming for not a minimum damage. They want maximum damage to eliminate and wipe out Israel. So each Hamas terrorist is indoctrinated like you said. Children are involved in Hamas for a very strong point indoctrinated from concerts to working for like you like you mentioned for their school money for their chores. Everything is connected with Hamas. So this is mentality. We spoke about the dimensions. They have a very multidimensional outlook towards Hamas. But Hamas has a single out single dimensional target towards Israel. One of the most interesting side points of this is an article that appeared a couple of days ago about the extraordinary short sell of Israeli stocks. In the week before October 7th, somebody was selling short selling Israeli stocks, a huge number, an unprecedented number. An extraordinary number of these stocks were being sold on the stock markets. Okay. And what was that about? Somebody made a lot of money short selling because after October 7th, all those stocks went down. So the short sell was profitable. Furthermore, of course, the massacre did great damage to the Israeli stocks and stock market and companies and the economy. You say to yourself, this is an asymmetrical war. You have the war with the massacre. You have the war with these guys not in uniform shooting from every apartment in every building. But you also have these external things. You have the propaganda. And now we find that somebody was short selling in the stock market trying to make a buck on atrocities. And to me, that's a new kind of war altogether. You talk about unprecedented things. That is unprecedented. They made some money killing children. It's unbelievable. Anyway, I also want to dwell on the fact that whether we're at the end of the beginning or the beginning of the end, in fact, the Israeli brain trust is trying to figure out the day after. And given the kind of engagement they've had with the world community and all the criticism, undeserved criticism about their attack or counter attack on Amos, they're trying to develop a day after strategy. And it probably will be with due regard for what kind of international reaction will come out of it. So I don't think the Israelis are simply going to occupy Amos or occupy Gaza. They're going to organize some kind of governmental arrangement there. And they're going to spend billions of shekels trying to figure out how to rebuild the place in a way that is democratic. That's a long shot, but somehow democratic and which allows the Israelis to live in relative peace on the border. And where Amos is not there and this notion of from the river to the sea is no longer their guiding principle. But what I think is the day after is something being considered. And it is an important concept because it will hopefully resolve these problems about Palestinians living only to be victims, living only to kill Jews. It will perhaps create a more civilized society, a civil society. By the way, there's a video series coming out on YouTube in a few days by an Israeli author called Zionism and Anti-Zionism. And it's a study of the last 100 years of anti-Zionism. And I think we all have to watch it. She's very learned. And I think her name is Hilf, H-I-L-F. And I think this is going to be very interesting. So that put it on your calendar to watch that. Okay, we can talk about it after it airs. Anyway, you were saying what about the day after? Yeah, Jay, the day after is going to be positive for Israel, I hope. Now, coming back to your short selling of stocks, that was a dramatic development. So somebody knew that this was going to happen. And Hamas as a terrorist organization, they go into this kind of funding, Jay, where they draw income out of these sources for now stock market. And they knew how to play it. Maybe the Hamas leadership knew that this attack was coming. So this kind of millions and millions made on the stock market was troublesome, Jay, because if something like this was happening, it is a huge indicator for intelligence to look upon and to study before they take it upon themselves. And now, Jay, to coming back to this beginning of the end of the beginning, Jay, Hamas is a terrorist organization which is destined to go up to the end and each person's end and Israel's end. So this continues because even a single person, now how many were the founding fathers of Hamas? So those few can start it again and take it as a study or take it as research for all time that when Hamas is banned, they will come under another name. They will come under with another identity. These same people will regroup, even if one or two rats are remaining somewhere, they will regroup, reinforce and reestablish themselves, not as powerful as Hamas right now, but eventually Hamas took 33, 34 decades to establish. They will also take a 34, you know, they will change the name. There was a big problem for terrorist organizations. The moment they were banned in the international list, they used to change the name so that they could start a new account, this kind of error financing which takes place. It requires a very comprehensive international strategy and in geopolitics, it requires international support. So that kind of a comprehensive perspective towards terror financing will stop terrorists. Iran made 100 billion dollars when they started trading after the Russia-Ukraine war. Israel, Hamas, what is the direct repercussion of what happened after the Ukraine war? When Iran was under sanctions, they did not have money to eat. Now, after the 100 billion trade, they had money to fund Hamas. That is the difference, Jay, one war makes on the other. The impact that they have on another war is this, that once these countries, which were literally living hand to mouth, had money to distribute, they don't distribute for more development. They distribute for terror activities and when they funded Hamas to carry out this terrorist attack, you see, this is the terror link. This is the terror trail. This is the money trail that moves. And this moves to kill. So, Jay, this finance in terrorism that we talk about is very important to trace it, to trace it and to stop it, to stop the channels which fund it. And Israel has to, like I always say, it has six antagonistic nations against it. It's right in between. It's the only democracy in the Middle East. It's valuable. And the numbers of, you know, you have numerous articles comparing Hitler to Netanyahu. No, it's wrong. He's fighting a movement against terrorism, terrorism against his own country. It's terrorism, Jay, and it is so rampant. And I mean, they forget the shock of October 7th. It's deplorable that they think that, you know, this war should end with Israel laying down arms. This war will only end when Hamas is finished. You know, it's an existential threat for the state of Israel, for sure. And you talk about, you know, the finance end of things. It's really important that the United States maintain its financial support of Israel because it's a war of attrition in many ways. And if the United States does not maintain its funding, and right now that seems to be stuck thanks to an ineffective Congress, that's very troublesome. I'm glad that Joe Biden continues to support it, even though it may cost him politically. I'm glad that he is sending 13,000 rounds of tank ammunition to them as he can without congressional funding. But over time, this is going to be a constraint. And really, we need the United States to step up because, as you say, other countries, other rogue countries are providing funding for Hamas. We can't let that happen and stand by. Israel needs to have at least as much funding and to keep up the war. But let me go to another question, though, Rubati. And we need to talk about this. There's an escalation of the violence on the northern border on the Lebanese border. And this is troubling because it draws off Israeli resources and troops and all that. And it's getting hotter on the Lebanese border. What is going on there? And how does that affect the beginning of the end of the war in Gaza? Lebanon will come in because of Hezbollah. Hezbollah is also funded by Iran. And Hezbollah would have come in a much stronger way in this fight if Joe Biden had not sent the warships on alert immediately. And we know Joe Biden is involved in Middle East Israel politics since 1973. He's a learned man, experienced person and a very strong statesman who sent the right signals, right time. You know, he's been there. So he's done good. And this Lebanese border, the Hezbollah factor, which in this Hezbollah is a much stronger faction, much stronger terrorist organization than Hamas, but they don't want to involve themselves directly in this war because Hamas is really facing its end right now. And they are giving up like rats because Jay, they had this burst of energy. They did it just for Israel retaliation. They wanted to evoke a retaliation. They got it. They wanted the hostages. They got it. They got to know what they can do with the hostages. It was like kind of a rehearsal that they wanted to do. How can they play and negotiate with hostages? And when they are seeing, you know, Israel had to put this restraint on going all out to rescue hostages because the entire terror cells were watching. If Israel had given into demands for the hostages, you know, what kind of implications they would have been all over the world? They would have picked up Israeli citizens as hostages anywhere, anywhere and start negotiation. This kind of muted response that the IDF is given is very deliberate, Jay, because it will be a cost of sad that will be a cost of 200 plus hostages. But it is for the future because otherwise every street, every school, every bus, every walk of every Israeli will be threatened with an impending hostage situation. Because like we know, they had this kind of looking forward to what they can do with 200 hostages because they saw Iran deal with five or six hostages. Yeah, but God, you remind me of an incident that took place in the West Bank only a few days ago where these guys drove a car into into a market in a bus station and just shot people without any cause without any warning. So you have a kind of, you know, spreading of the violence through Hamas and the Palestinian community, I guess. But I want to go to one other thing that you touched on. And that is, so we have this global affair, we have this risk for Israelis everywhere. And we have sort of people arithmetic we should take a look at. And the Israelis have come out in no uncertain terms to point out that the Hamas Ministry of Health is a phony. There's nothing going on with health in Gaza. All these guys that do publish these figures that are wrong and try to excite world opinion, this propaganda, but it's not data in any way. And they claim now this 15,000 Palestinians who have been killed and they come out with this flat statement, Israel denies it and points out that they're not to be believed. At the same time, Israel has said that they have killed 7,000 Hamas fighters and Hamas fighters are embedded in the Palestinian population. So you don't know whether the 15,000 number is right, assuming for a moment that the Israelis are more credible and that 7,000 fighters have been killed. The question is, how many of those should be deducted from whatever amount of Palestinians are reported by the Ministry of Health? To me, that's a rhetorical question. The other point is this guy, Sinwar, the leader, the organizer, the founder of the attack, he was in an Israeli jail. He was traded for that one soldier where they traded 1,000 prisoners. God, I don't think they should have done that. 1,000 prisoners for this one Israeli soldier, and he came back and looked what happened. He was an activated militant, an activated terrorist. And so they're looking for him. They're looking for him in the tunnels. They believe he's still in Gaza. If they find him, they're going to either kill him or try him for the world to see, not clear. And others, there's two or three others that were up there with him in the leadership that organized the massacre. So my question to you is, are they going to find him? Are they going to, what are they going to do with him when they find him? And are they going to be able to find the other leaders of the massacre? Or are these guys all going to scuttle around and get away through the tunnel system and go across the Egyptian border and somehow, you know, reunite with their terrorist friends elsewhere? What do you think? Yeah, Jay, that is a big possibility that they must have run out also. This YIS involved was one who was exchanged for prisoners, like you said. That's why this hostage situation was so difficult to deal with. They did not know who to deal with, who to exchange. And they put their foot down on no men being exchanged because Israeli men coming back, but a murderer and a future terrorist being released was far too difficult to handle right now. And Jay, this Yaya, is a very dangerous person because he plans and plots his kind of the mastermind of this Hamas attack, terrorist attack. And the numbers that they're playing with, that 15,000 on that, 7,000, 5,000 plus paratroopers and terrorists entered Israel on that day. Did they count those numbers? And how many did they kill? Those numbers are still, you know, blurry and they give out every day they have these tickers which go on how many lives are going off. It's not a countdown to your new year. It is an operation which is, and you know that was a terrorist in a single day those were killed in two months with extreme caution, with extreme Reiki, with extreme warnings to citizens to flee and to escape and to evacuate the area. Two months is the time that Israel has taken to catch these Hamas terrorists and civilian shields who have knowingly, I say knowingly very well because Israel has given 20 days of warning to evacuate. That has to be underscored in such a way because Jay, those citizens stayed back. Those citizens stayed back to shield. And it can't be There are threats involved. For example, there's this footage of the terrorists stealing the humanitarian food and supplies. I guess it's drone footage and it shows that the terrorists are beating up and I don't know maybe shooting the Palestinians in order to get the food and supplies. They're taking what the United Nations and others are providing to help the Palestinian people. They're physically taking it with violence. You know, the other, as I mentioned earlier, is that we have these defined areas for, you know, the Palestinians to go to and rockets are coming out of those areas. Even within the last couple of days, dozens of rockets are coming into the south of Israel and toward Tel Aviv from areas that are supposed to be sanctuary for the Palestinians. What do they expect the Israelis to do? Nothing? Jay, to look forward to in this Israel Hamas war is to look forward to getting close to the end of Hamas as a terrorist organization as and one of the main political players in the Gaza region. And Jay, this I say that the Hamas Israel war was Hamas terrorist attack was a direct repercussion of the Russian Ukraine war. And that was because this kind of money that was pumped in the terror financing got these people to come back into the main circuit and be able to launch such a terrorist attack. And Hamas has to disintegrate and be dismissed because this kind of terrorist attack in the future can never ever be expected. And you know, what is that? You cannot, you cannot help that this should happen again in any which way, in any small way, financing, intelligence, everything, Jay. You know, to reveal what Hamas has done, and the Israelis aren't doing that, you know, they're they're they're making more public relations, communications from the families of the hostages about the hostages. And by the way, I don't think we're going to see any more hostages in the near term. We may have lost we may have lost them all. I think people are coming around. Yeah. But, you know, the Israelis are becoming more, what do we call it, public about some of the things they were reluctant to discuss before, like the details of the terror. And as that happens, and assuming that the Israelis do lean out and terminate Hamas and its leadership, it's a message to the whole world, something along the lines that terrorism and atrocities don't really pay. And we're not going to let that happen. And on the other side of the coin, if Israel doesn't do that, it's not permitted to do that. You know, either because of political pressures in the US or or in the EU. And for some reason, Israel cannot conclude this war on the terms that are appropriate. That is the elimination of Hamas. That's also going to be a message to the world, isn't it? And it's going to be something like, yeah, terrorism does pay. We might as well try it here. So I think this is really a global import, don't you? Yes, yes, such a such a valid point. I mean, in international relations today, this is the main main thing, because so many terrorists are on the watch. And that is such undermined fact in this war, because everybody has eyes on this war. There is a hostage situation, there is how the secure nation is dealing with it, how the Hamas is operating, the intelligence that was involved and terror cells. Now, if Israel deals with this, and it will continue for some time, but the terror cells that will get activated, these migrants, which will move out to other countries, are not going to be waiting, ducks, Jake, they are going to be active people, they are going to want, you know, they're going to have those. What is that film style movie style revenge in them, and they want to come back and Rambo style, take, you know, revenge of the ancestors, the ancestors came to, as a terrorist, that has to be told to them, they have been indoctrinated to believe that Hamas is heroic, Hamas is, you know, this is very virtual, like we call it the propaganda war, everything is created in this terrorist organization. They glorify the fact of, you know, sacrifice martyrdom, they call it Jake, martyrdom, they go to deaths like dogs, but they'll call it martyrdom. And that kind of mental indoctrination is what is dangerous for every freedom loving democratic citizen all over the world, because two of them, one of them is enough to create a nuisance for a democratic setup. If your democratic setup is your street, if your democratic setup is in your city, or if your democratic setup is in your country, these people are dangerous because they enjoy the values of democracy, but they hurt the very foundation of democracy every time. You know, up to the massacre, the average Israeli did not have a gun. They rely on the military to take care of them. In fact, military people always traveling around with their rifles, you know, on the street quotas in the shops, but not, but now people in Israel are getting gun permits and they're getting guns. And in fact, I read that there are hundreds of thousands of new guns in the hands of civilians in Israel to defend themselves. They're not going to let this happen again. They're not going to let atrocities happen again. They're not going to sit around and wait for the United Nations, which isn't going to do anything, or the International Court to deal with it as war crimes. That's going to shoot them. And in fact, that's what happened in this shooting I mentioned at the bus stop. Right after the terrorist shot the people at the bus stop, and they killed three or four people, some fellow came out, or a couple of guys came out, with their own guns, civilians, and shot the terrorists dead right there on the spot finish. And I think we're going to see more of that. And actually, that's a lot easier than waiting for years to investigate and prosecute. It's sad that we don't have an agency either for the war crimes in Ukraine or in Israel for any international organization to step in and A, condemn which the United Nations has not done, and B, organize a war crimes trap. So I think it changes things, and maybe not for the best on a macro scale, but it changes things as to what happens if you want to be a terrorist in a city or a, you know, in a setting where you kill civilians. Well, civilians can kill you too. Anyway, thank you very much, Robadi. Robadi Kandekar, thank you for joining me on this discussion. We'll come back and discuss it further because it's an ongoing story. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, Jay Aloha.