 I am James Swannigan. Today we are speaking to Debbie, who is a wealth manager in Danville, California. She's a married 53-year-old with two step children. She's an active ultra-runner. And as of today, she's no longer drinking alcohol. She's alcohol-free, in fact. Debbie, how many days alcohol-free are you? Oh, goodness gracious. I guess it's gotta be 97, 98. Something like that, 98, 99. Congratulations. I'm popping my hands there. Well done. What's the longest you've gone without drinking in your adult life prior to this? Oh, probably like 28 days. I love how it's like, I love how you've got the exact number. Oh, probably like 28 days. I don't know. It was like 20 or 40. It was 28. No, no. I think I did it dry January once. Right. Yeah. So how does it feel to be 90-something days alcohol-free if you compare it to when you were drinking? And I'll get clear on what your drinking habits were, but how does it feel now? How can you compare those two scenarios? I've just freed up so much mental space before like every, a good part of every morning was about how I was going to not drink today. And yeah, just like all of that mental space is cleared up. And just always feeling like when I go out for a run, like I'm not dragging my butt along, again, beating myself up for decisions I had made the previous night. What were some of those decisions that you were making the previous nights? Well, I mean, I think one of the reasons it took me so long is because it seemed like it should be so easy to quit drinking two glasses of wine a night, two to three. Sometimes I'd quit for maybe a week or two, and then I'd have like a half a glass of wine. And then the next couple days would be a glass of wine and then one and a half and then two. And then before I knew it, I was up to two and a half, sometimes like three glasses of wine on the weekends for sure, more than that, probably a bottle of wine on a Saturday and a bottle of wine on a Sunday. And just pouring all of that attractively packaged poison down my throat. So, you know, I never missed a day at work. I never missed a workout. I'm the kind of person that does what I say I'm going to do. But I just was so mad at myself that I couldn't do this one thing. Was it red wine or wine you were drinking? I usually read. What was your drink of choice? Oh, it was cheap because I always knew. I would never go to wineries. I wasn't any wine clubs. And so that was also sort of embarrassing because we'd go out with friends and they'd say, oh, you picked the wine. I'm like, no, no, you picked the wine. I don't know anything about wine. So, you know, it's not like I was even this connoisseur or this person that paired wine and food or whatever. It was totally about the buzz. I knew it was about the buzz. And I just I couldn't accept that about me. So tell us a little bit about your life, if you will, that in hindsight you've identified was creating this need or this habit of having the two to three glasses of wine each night or maybe a bottle on the weekend. Just tell us a little bit about your nine to five, your Monday to Friday, your weekends and why you identified you were choosing alcohol. Yeah, I think I let my stress level get up during the day. It was acceptable to not deal with the stress and maybe to whip things up into things that were bigger than they really were. And so by the time I was driving home, all I was doing was looking forward to those couple of glasses of wine to sort of come down. So I had that kind of thing going on like no matter what, I could find something about the day that was stressful. It was just sort of this automatic thing to find that those couple of stressful things that felt hectic about the day that therefore needed to be quelled with the wine. And then and then also just coming home sometimes maybe if I didn't have a bad day, but there was something that my husband said that I didn't like or some way he was thinking about something that I just didn't agree with, you know, I would just like shut down whatever that feeling was in that discomfort, that discomfort of just being in a relationship and having a different way of looking at things in the world and neither one of us was right or wrong. It was just that I didn't like the way he was thinking about it. So and then, you know, then just social things like just the thought that wow, any kind of social thing is better with wine. Like I can't do it without the wine. So until now. So what were those social things? What were they usually? Were they girls get together? Were they work related networking business events? You own part of a wealth management company in Danville and California? Were there was there entertaining clients? Was there network? A lot of conferences and of course at the conferences people are always buying, you know, the open bar and a lot of sponsored dinners. So like quarterly there'd be something like that. There'd be, you know, a few business dinners now and again, colleagues, other business partners outside of our firm that were trying to reciprocate and treat us to nice dinners. And so there's sort of this whole concept of well it's free, you know, I have to take advantage of it because it's free alcohol. So that was that was mainly it. I mean, from time to time we would go to dinner with friends, but it was more just that business context. Did you ever try to politely decline others invitations to drink? No, no. It was really, I always thought in my mind, I was like, well, geez, if I could just drink when I'm social, but just not drink at home, you know, Monday through like, like to me it was just, I couldn't accept the fact that I needed to drink Monday through Friday when I was home alone. I thought if, because I don't socialize so much, they don't do so many business events that that would have been bad. I wouldn't have classified it for me to be bad. I mean, like I said, maybe four conferences a year, maybe four or five dinners a year. So it wasn't a ton. So I always thought, well, if I, if I would just only drink when I was in social activities, then this drinking wouldn't be a problem. But that's not how I was drinking. I was drinking every time I was home alone or with my husband, I was always drinking. Yeah, every time you were alone or home with your husband, you were drinking. Yeah. And again, in addition to the social times. Right. Right. And I just thought, why do I have to be drinking when I'm home? I'm in my home. I should be, you know, I should be fine here. Right. Why can I, why can't I just deal with my own life? I have a beautiful life. I have a wonderful life. And yet that's, that's what I was choosing to do. I mean, we'd be packing for a vacation and I'd be like, ooh, let's have a drink while we're packing for vacation. You know, and, and I was rarely ever hungover. But I just knew it wasn't what I wanted to be doing. It just wasn't me. So when you would come home from work each day or during COVID, were you working from home or an office? I was working from home. Okay. So you were home a lot more. Actually, you were home probably almost all of the time, I guess during COVID. Yes. So let's just go back pre COVID. After work, you would drive home, you'd open the door, you'd walk in, how long would it take you to pull yourself a glass of wine? That was the first thing I did. I would open that door. I would be in the front door. I mean, and I'd be pouring that wine and I would have like three or four big gulps, like gulps, like not even sips. I mean, it wasn't even ladylike. And I'd have a couple of gulps of wine and then I'd go upstairs and I'd put on my sweats and sort of change into my after work clothes. But I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even give it enough space. And why do you think you were doing that? I just wanted that buzz. I wanted that happy feeling in my head. So does that imply that you didn't have a happy feeling in your head as you returned home after work each day? Sometimes it was fine. Sometimes not. Sometimes I was stressed about something that I just sort of wanted to take the edge off. But a lot of times that wasn't there. It was just like, Oh, well, if this is good, then alcohol can make it better. So how long do you think it took before you realized that alcohol cannot make it better? That maybe it makes it temporarily better in the moment. But it's an illusionary better, isn't it? It's temporary and it's illusionary. So when did you first have that aha moment? Oh, probably like three or four years ago. Yeah. I mean, at that time, my husband and I, well, I said I was going to AA. Well, I was seeing a therapist at the time and I said, I'm sure I must be an alcoholic because I can't stop. It's only two or three glasses, but I can't stop. And she said, well, if you think you're an alcoholic, maybe you should try AA. And I went to 90 meetings in 90 days and there's great people in the rooms, fantastic people. But I really committed to it. But even in AA, I mean, I still couldn't get enough days together. And so, I mean, that's like I said, it was like three or four years ago that I went on that journey earnestly to say, you know, I'm better than this. I didn't grow up in a family that drank. So I knew there was nothing genetic there. There was no, it's not like I saw this habit growing up. I just knew it was something about me that I just needed to change. So that's interesting. You did 90 days at AA. Did you actually say my name's Debbie and I'm an alcoholic? Yes. That was very painful. It was very painful. I got a sponsor. I worked through the steps and I was just like, well, maybe if I do this, I won't want to drink anymore. Again, great, great people have nothing bad to say about it, but it just wasn't for me. And how long did you last? Without drinking or how long did I go to AA? Without drinking. When you were in AA, you said you did 90 days. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that's when I made like the 28 days. And then I would like, oh, I'll just have a sip. I'll just, you know. Yeah. So yeah. Oh, maybe I got a 30-day trip maybe. But I think I might have even cheated. I'm not sure. Did you feel like you were depriving yourself of something during those days or nights at AA? Why in hindsight do you feel like it didn't result in you being alcohol free? That's a good question. I think there was just no way it wasn't sustainable to think about going to meetings for the rest of my life, to like have to get in my car and go to a meeting and sit in a room. That just wasn't sustainable. So I knew I needed the support, but it just wasn't sustainable. But the tools that I found in this program, where I have support every day, every day a little bit of sunshine of support in this program, I'm the kind of person that thrives in a team environment. And when I got in this program, it was like instantly the team was around me of other like-minded people that were going through struggles, but also very positively looking at things as they were changing in their life. That's the kind of environment that I knew I needed to be in. So when you said like-minded people, just describe the types of folks that you met inside of the Project 90 program? Just other people around my age, maybe 10 years younger, to 15 to 20 years older. So let me back up to AA. I think the other thing was that I didn't identify with the people that had sort of lost everything. And I would hear these just tremendous stories of and it was just sort of depressing. And I'm like, oh geez, I'm not that bad. So I kind of kept comparing myself to them going, well, I'm not that bad. What am I doing here? I kind of doubted that I belonged there. I guess that's the difference. As with the Project 90, it was like, okay, these are all just people who just want something better in their life, who whether, I mean, maybe some of them drank more than me or maybe a little less, I don't know, but we all just sort of seemed to share this same feeling of, I know I can do better and I'm not like so down in the gutter that I can't climb out. So just what I would call just successful, highly functioning, normal people. Yeah. And you said that it was very positive. So do you think that if you were to compare it to AA or something else, would that be, is that a fair comparison that one of them seems incredibly positive, almost aspirational, the other one not as much? Is there, is that a fair comparison? Yeah, I like the word aspirational because in the first, you know, those first two weeks in Project 90, I mean, it's hard. It's hard, but yet I was hearing other people talk about their journey who were ahead of me with more days. And they, they, I'm like, oh, I can't, you know, I know I just got to hang in there and I can get to where they are. Or they might have been people who maybe had had a quick slip, but then got back and and talked about, okay, well, I had to slip. This is what happened. This is what I'm going to do next. But that aspirational aspect of it was, was really, was really big to me. You know, I think about my running group. And when I joined the running group, they said, if you just do what we do, you'll be able to run all these really cool ultramarathon events. And that's, it inspires me. And I knew I wasn't there yet, but I knew all I had to do was do what they were doing and I would get there. And that's how, and I instantly recognize that about Project 90. You mentioned before we started this that you're no longer feeling sick and tired or feeling sick and tired. Explain that. I was just sick and tired of trying to find a solution. I was sick and tired of not living up to what I said I was going to do. I was sick and tired of waking up in the middle of the night with my head spinning with anxiety. Sick and tired of this routine that my husband and I would get into around the drinking every night. And so none of those things happen now or not very often. What's the current reality? Oh, so, yeah, no, I mean, I sleep great. I know I've lived up to my word. It's funny, when the pandemic started, I said, I don't know how, but by the time this pandemic is over, I'm going to have quit drinking. I just knew it. I just said this is my chance. I don't know why. This has got to be done by the time the pandemic is over. Wow. And when you say quit drinking, does that mean quit drinking for 90 days? Does that mean quit drinking for six months? Does it mean quit drinking for a while and then do moderation, or does it mean quit drinking? Right now, it's just not drinking now. I just have no reason to drink now. I mean, I'm not go anywhere. I'm not do anything. So there's nothing, there's no reason that I can see to be drinking. So if I was drinking now, it would be back to the same Monday through Friday, getting home from work and having to drink a wine just for no reason at all. So that said, I think if I did start drinking again, I would start drinking again. Because I've done that so many times, and I'm able to acknowledge that. If I just said, oh, well, just on this vacation, I'm just going to drink, then I'm sure I would get back from that vacation and just keep drinking. I'm sure I would get back from that vacation and just say, well, okay, well, it's a vacation plus one day. It's a vacation plus two days or whatever. And then it also sets up in my mind the idea that somehow there's some benefit to it. And there's really, there's no benefit. I mean, I had to do a lot of work on finding the new benefits and realizing what the new benefits are. It's not just giving up that happy feeling in my head. It's getting all these other really happy feelings and having to be sure I work on those every day. And what are some of those other feelings, benefits? Yeah, just being really, really present with people, really paying attention to people, really taking in the beauty of a situation. For example, when we had a couple ski vacations in the last 90 days, and there was a point in that ski vacation as we're going down the hill or I'm thinking, oh, I can't wait till I press ski and we sit in the bar and have some drinks. And I went, no, I don't do that anymore. So I just, I had to think, okay, well, what's beautiful right now? What's beautiful and wonderful right now? And so just being more present in every situation because that, that was what I was missing. And has there been feedback that you've got from either your husband or colleagues or anyone else as to this version of you as opposed to the one 90-something days earlier? You know, my husband has said, you know, good job, keep it up. And he would drink even more than I was drinking. And he actually has stopped drinking. I think, I think he'll drink, you know, if he, he has usually Mondays and Tuesdays off. And so I think there's been some days where, you know, he'll, he'll drink on those days when I'm not home. But it's not like he's sneaking around or anything. It's just his decision that that's what he wants to do. And I certainly didn't tell him that he had to or it's just sort of like, he just has followed along. So he's, you know, said, you know, yeah, it's nice to see you not, not drinking and kind of getting a little bit stumbly around family, you know, for having family over or something. I can't say that really anybody else has really noticed or said anything. I mean, I've told a couple of people in the running group and they've said, way to go. But it's not like they said, yeah, you know, I can see, you know, I can see that you're so much more XYZ. But yeah, people have certainly supported my journey for sure. How do you feel about sharing with people that you're alcohol free? Oh, I love it. I just love it. Because it just feels like a really cool thing to do. In this, you know, in our society that's so geared that way, I certainly don't want to throw it in anybody's face for sure. I really make it just about, you know, me and me achieving something that was really cool for me. But yeah, I don't have no shame or anything about sharing it. So what were some of the key distinctions that you learned inside of the program? What was something that was surprising or something that you learned that you didn't know previously or a perception or a mindset? What was something that felt really interesting and valuable for you? So I'm going to answer your question a little indirectly. So I had read several books on how to stop drinking, like four or five of them. And they all had sort of reading those books and seeing the common threads in all of those books. I had the brain knowledge to how to do it, but it wasn't until I got into this program where I then saw people putting all of those concepts into action. See, that's what I needed. I needed action and I needed accountability to have somebody to be accountable as part of a group to actually do them. So for example, I knew that I knew from reading the various books that stopping drinking was not depriving myself and I knew that I really had to believe that. I knew I had to believe I was not depriving myself, but rather I was moving to something better. And I couldn't get there in my brain. Until I joined the program and saw how other people showed me that they were not depriving themselves, that was one of the pieces that removed what they call cognitive dissonance, where you're trying to hold on to two thoughts that are opposing at the same time. So seeing how, again, I knew that I needed to get to the point where I could have fun in a social situation without alcohol, but I kind of needed to see other people do it. Does that kind of answer your question? Yeah, I always share with people you can go onto YouTube and type in how to quit drinking and you can watch 5000 videos on that. You can go to the library, get a whole lot of books. You can pay $29 for books and get it sent out to you and you can read it. And you'll still not quit drinking. That was me. Yep. Yeah, I think, well, not think. I know why my methodology seems to work as effectively as it seems to have for you. And by that, I mean within Project 90. And I break it down into five pillars and let me know if you think there's another pillar or which one you found to be most valuable for you, Debbie. But the five pillars are coaching, accountability, community, fun, and skin in the game. Or another way of saying skin in the game is an investment in yourself, financial investment. So two questions. First one is, is there anything else there that you think that was valuable that I didn't mention in those five pillars? No, I think that. And then of those five pillars, which did you find to be the most motivational or the most valuable for you, the most effective possibly? It was the accountability combined with the community. And I thought that because of the fact that I found your program through a Facebook ad and then kind of Googled you a little bit and I was signing up based on the internet, I kind of thought I would be like a a voyeur or just a watcher of the program. But when I signed up, I was, I was directly contacted by the coaches. Like that first night, it was like, Debbie, how you doing? What's going on? How you feeling? I'm like, Oh, the internet is calling me. I mean, there's like, there's real people, I guess is like that just made it, you know, and it was like, Okay, it's your first Saturday night. How you doing? I'm like, Oh my gosh, like somebody cares. Somebody cares. And so that like really pulled me into the community. So from there, I'm like, Okay, I'm in it now. Like, I'm not, like I'm not anonymous, right? I think part of me thought, Well, maybe I could kind of do this anonymously and kind of sit back and just sort of watch the whole thing go by and then it will soak in. And no, I was in it. People knew my name. People said, Welcome, Debbie. Oh my God, darn it. They know I'm here. Now I got to do this stuff. This is not what I signed up for. I signed up to be a passive participant. That's right. That's right. You know, so anyways, yeah, so is that accountability in that community for sure? Just out of curiosity for myself, when you saw the Facebook ad and you clicked, how long was it from when you clicked on the Facebook ad that you saw when you actually booked a call, spoke to one of my coaches and then ultimately enrolled in project 90? I think it was about two months. And it's funny because I think I had seen the ad and it spoke to me. And then I thought, I got to look that up. And then it was like a month later or something. I'm like, James, what? What? James, who? What was his name? And so I started googling James 90. Thankfully, I knew it was James and I knew it was 90 and I just kept googling until I found it. And what you ultimately enrolled, what almost led to you talking yourself out of it, do you think? Because there's a moment, isn't there? You book a call with one of my coaches, you have a chat, you have an exploratory call, we get clear on what it is that you want to achieve over the 90 days. We invite you to join us if we think you'll be a fit. And then you can either choose to enroll or not choose to enroll. You chose to enroll. But what were you thinking before you chose to enroll? What was the story in your head thinking? I thought this could be a waste of money because I could blow it. What if it doesn't work? What if it doesn't work? And it was the money kind of, but it was more just like the thought of potentially like if this didn't work and it doesn't work, it was like then I was hopeless. So it was almost like I didn't want something to validate again that I was hopeless. I get that. That's the feeling that many people have shared with me actually. It's a very common pattern I guess or it's a pattern. It's that fear that, wow, if I invest my time and energy and resources into this and I still fail, wow, I really am broken. I get it. What pushed you over the edge to say yes? Well, I figured I was broken if I didn't. Damned if I didn't and damned if I did, but at least this had a sliver of a chance. And as soon as I got into it and I really understood what it was, then I realized it was more than a sliver of a chance. I realized that if I just did what I was told to do that I would be able to, if I just showed up honestly, candidly, raw, and just subjected myself to the process, I was like, oh, I think this could work. Yeah, good on you. As interesting as well, you didn't quite know what you were getting yourself into. You were just, you were thinking, oh yeah, it's a program that's going to help me quit drinking. You didn't really know the specifics of how that was going to happen. You just, you knew enough, trusted enough to say I'll figure it out once I'm in there, but I'm going for the result here. Yeah, I think I aligned with the idea. I think what I did know is that I would be communicating with other successful individuals so that it just felt like it was going to be a parallel. Well, I so acknowledge you for taking the leap of faith. This feels like you're standing on top of a cliff and there are rocks down below and you just got to trust that if you step off the safety net will appear even if you can't see the safety net. So my experience of you is that you just stepped off and trusted that the safety net would appear and by all accounts it did. Yes, it did. That's a great description of it. That's exactly what happened. Well, congratulations. It would be totally remiss of me if I did not ask you about your ultra running. I would love to know more. I'm sure our listeners would as well. Tell us a little bit about that. What do you actually do? How far do you run? What does it entail? What's your record? What's the plans for the future? Well, let's see. I just started two years ago. This year, I plan to run a 50-mile trail run. Yes, that is all at one time. There's no sleeping involved. And then I'll run. So that's in May. In August, I'll do god-willing. I'll do a 62-mile, which is 100K. I'll do a 100K trail run in the Tahoe area. And then again, god-willing, at the end of October, I'll do a 100-mile trail run. And so last year, I did a 50 and I did a 62-mile or 100K at Zion National Park. So it involves just putting on your shoes, starting really early and just running all day. Incredible. It's fun. Out in nature on the trails, like my girlfriend says, she goes, it's just a really long day. So you just have not too much expectations. And my goal is to get over to the UTMB, the Ultra Tour de Mont Blanc, which is where you go around Mont Blanc and go through Italy, France, and Switzerland. Your European clients will know that more than a few US people, but that's the goal. And Western States, which is in the Tahoe area, famous 100-mile race. What I'm gunning for, we'll see. Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing a little bit about that. Thanks for asking. Yeah, well, Debbie, congratulations. Thank you. Debbie, your wealth manager in Danville, California, 53, married with two stepchildren, active ultra-runner, no longer sick and tired of being sick and tired, no longer frustrated with herself, and feeling terrific by all accounts. Is that right? And James, thank you for pulling this together and having just the right formula for this right group of people. I owe you a lot. And I mean that. I could tear up because I'm so proud. So thank you for doing what you did. You're so very welcome, Debbie. And thank you for supporting others as well. I say this often when I interview graduating clients, which I think is fantastic, that I get to say what I'm about to say, which is thank you so much for supporting other people because it's not just about you being supported and getting support. It's about you being vulnerable and sharing what's going on with you and giving support to other members. And I witnessed you doing that on those micro polos. You're always supporting people and calling people out in a really supportive way. And that speaks volumes of you. So thank you. Yep. And if anybody wants to contact me directly, you can put them in touch. Okay. Great. Thank you so much. Well, Debbie, congratulations again, and onwards and upwards. Sounds good. Thanks for listening to the alcohol free lifestyle podcast. I want to load you up with some free stuff right now. So if you want to go to jameswanick.com slash guide, I will send you my quit alcohol guide, which has helped six figure entrepreneurs and top professionals produce or quit drinking. You can also text the word quit guide to the number 44222. If you're in the US, of course, it doesn't really work anywhere outside of the US. But if you're in the US on your mobile phone and you'd like that guide, text the word quit guide to the number 44222. Or you can go to jameswanick.com slash guide. If you'd like to schedule a free 15 minute call with one of my top coaches, just an exploratory call to see if or how we can help you, then you can go to jameswanick.com slash schedule. Or you can text the word project 90 to the number 44222. If you're listening in the US on a mobile phone, that's jameswanick.com slash schedule. Or you can text the word project 90, that's one word project 90 to the number 44222. Feel free to send me a direct message over on my Instagram account, which is at jameswanick. 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