 good afternoon or good evening. You can go to live in France but you cannot become a Frenchman. You can go to live in Germany or Turkey or Japan but you cannot become a German or Turk or Japanese but anywhere anyone from any corner of the earth can come to live in America and become an American. Welcome back to A Nation of Immigrants, a new talk show program featuring the lives of immigrants, knowledge, diversity, and inclusion. Brought to you by Sink Tank Hawaii and Kingsfield Law Office, we invite renowned immigrants to discuss their life stories, immigration adventures, and the contributions to cultural diversity. Today's guest is Professor Vint Chin. Vint Chin Chin is a faculty member in the College of Education and Human Development at the University of Minnesota. His research and teaching addressed the needs of immigrants and marginalized students, examining the relationships between educational institutions, families, and the social context, and employee interdisciplinary frameworks for the study of education. A fourth generation Cambodian American, Professor Chin, received a venture degree in political science and in government from the University of Arizona, a master of art degree in education psychology from California State University, Northridge, and a Doctor of Philosophy in Education with a focus on child and adolescent development from the University of California, Santa Barbara. In this episode of A Nation of Immigrants, Professor Vint Chin shares his life story, academic career, and reflections on work, identity, and the community with us. Thank you so much for agreeing to be our guest. Welcome, Professor Chin. Hello, thank you. It's an honor to be here. Yeah, Professor Chin, I read your article about your childhood with your family from a refugee camp to the United States. I'm just totally, totally amazed by your story. I just, you know, deeply touched. I think I knew a little bit about Cambodian history and because there are some, you know, similar, the pop put, the crimes against the community. But to be honest, I never been that close to a Cambodian American. And I really appreciated this opportunity to talk with you and about your experience. Please just tell us about your family, and how did you settle in Minnesota? Oh, no, thank you. Thank you. It's really, it's really great to be here. Minnesota is my home now. I've been here since 2009, when I took a job at the University of Minnesota, but I grew up in Los Angeles, California, where my family resettled after living in Thai refugee camps a little bit over a year after they fled the, you know, they and me, but I was such a baby at the time that they fled the Khmer Rouge regime. So after the Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia is a period of time from 1975 to 1979, in which it was a dark hour in the country's history and something that connects Cambodians all over the world. And the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia in January 1979, which provided the opportunity for many Cambodians, including my family, to make harrowing treks and voyagers across the border into Thailand, where they would find some refuge in refugee camps. So that's a story that pretty much all Cambodians, Cambodian refugees, in any way, share. That makes sense. Yes. Yes. And you were born in a refugee camp. I was born, I was born, well, okay, hang on, let's see. Do I say the year? Yeah, I'll say the year. I was born in December of 1977, which is pretty much in the middle of that period in time, in which the communist Khmer Rouge took control of Cambodia. And so I was born in Khmer Rouge communist labor camp. And I was a baby, well, a little over one when my parents traveled to Thailand. So we spent about a year and some months in a refugee camp. I was a younger sister who was born in the Thai refugee camp. So there's four of us. Yeah, how did you make the trip? Were you sort of released from the camp? Were you allowed to travel? That's a great question. It's a question I ask all of my family members who were old enough to experience this period, because I'm fascinated by that. When the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia in 1979, the Khmer Rouge kind of fled, right? And in most provinces and most of the labor camps, there were stories of Khmer Rouge soldiers and officials just kind of leaving, putting their arms down and leaving. And so my understanding is that people didn't know what was going on. People were scrambling. They were going back to the cities because everyone was in the countryside at this point. And people were, what's the first thing you do? You go look for your family. You go look for your parents that you were separated from, your loved ones and other relatives and maybe friends and neighbors. And so a lot of people came back to the capital city of Phnom Penh to define surviving members of their family. And then my, so the story goes that my parents made a very difficult decision. They did find, my mom did find her parents, my grandparents, and some of her siblings. But it was unclear what would happen in the country still. The country was devastated. And my parents made a very difficult decision to travel to Thailand to seek refuge. They just did not know what was in store for them in their homeland in the country. So you see a photo there of a camp photo. This is you. That is me. You are very little killed. Yeah, very, very little, very little. So I am in this camp. I think this camp was in Chonburi, which is another refugee camp, but it was more of a processing center, a place, a kind of way station prior to coming to the United States. There is another photo, which I did not include. There is another camp photo. That camp was in Kawadang, which is one of the largest refugee camps in the world since closed down. There is another photo with my younger sister who was born in the camp. She is a little baby and my mom had to hold her number for her because she is a baby. So I think what these stories remind me of is that these are some of the experiences that connect all of us Cambodians in the diaspora here in the United States, but in Europe, in Australia, these are things that we all can relate to. And even for those who did not experience refugee camp life or communist camp life, people had family members perished. People had family members who they never saw again. So people have different kinds of relationships to these atrocities that have a different relationship to the genocide. I'm sorry, you have your family and you have to have to go through all of this. But looking at your resume, I'm totally amazed by your accomplishment from a refugee. Thank you. And obviously, you are one of the model immigrants. I don't think you will like this label. Asians have always been labeled as a model minority, but you are very well educated, very well educated, a bachelor degree, master degree, PhD degree. And now you are a tenured professor at one of the most respected public universities. And tell us how do you study and how do you research, what do you do right now, and why you choose this career path, not a dentist or a computer engineer or a lawyer or a physician. You choose to be a professor. I understand your point. You know, I think that's a really good question. I've always told people I'm sort of an accidental academic. I attended many different kinds of colleges. I went to the junior college, I attended, I graduated from the University of Arizona, but I also attended a bunch of different other institutions in trying to find my way as a young man. I always, I don't want people to sort of take my journey, and my journey is still unfolding. I don't want people to take my journey as some kind of progress narrative, necessarily, I think. So we've heard about the model minority, right, Asian Americans. And in some ways, I typify that, right? I represent that for a lot of people. But I also would caution against that, in the sense that I think I got really lucky. You know, Mr. Wang, I think I got very lucky, like, and I think I met some people who cared about. And I think I found some good relationships. I think that there were all kinds of circumstances in my life that allowed me to flourish, right? And I don't think other people, including people in my own community, have had some of those amazing opportunities. Because I have no doubt that people would do amazing things given the right opportunities, right? So I take that as a compliment. I take that very much as a compliment. I appreciate it very much. But at the same time, I'm always careful because I want to trouble a little bit. I want to poke holes in the idea of meritocracy, because I had my fear of trouble along the way. In schools, out of schools, I'm growing up in a immigrant home, a refugee home with refugee parents who were just doing the best they can. And growing up, I don't think people would have said, wow, that is a wonderful Asian American family, right? We were often looked at as kind of like the sort of drags of society, right? The burdens of in communities. We were not the model might work, right? So I think that's a term that I write about. And it is a term that I live in. And it's a term that I hope to challenge. Anytime I can. Precisely. Yes. Totally agree. You're a change agent from your publication, from your profile. I can see that you have these, you know, I always tell my assistants and my students that you need to have two capabilities to be able to function in this 21st century. That one is critical thinking. And the second is intellectual curiosity. And I see both the qualities in your publication and in your profile. I really appreciate that. And your family is from Cambodia. And I understand Cambodia, like 95% of Cambodians are Buddhists. And I just want to ask you, because I came to the United States 22 years ago, and I was, I totally agree with you about your fortune. I think that both you and I are blessed even when you came here through different paths, different way, but we are both of us are blessed about being able to settle down and become part of this American experiment. How important spiritual support in 95% of Cambodian families are partitioning Buddhists? How important the spiritual religious religion is played a role in your community? And because I'm asking this question is I was totally thrilled to find out that what minister Teran, the temple Minnesota is only 20 minutes drive from my house. A few years ago, I found that I'm a regular visitor ever since. I kind of believe that how did how did the Cambodian Minnesotans manage to construct the largest Buddhist temple in the United States? It is a largest Buddhist temple in the United States in Hampton, Minnesota. I believe in North America. Yes, in the internal summer. I never get a chance to, you know, I go there regularly, I donate and pray, and I never get a chance. I look at all the information I get from the Facebook page from other information, but I'm thrilled to have this opportunity to ask you, you know, what you know about this temple. What's the story behind this temple? How come you Cambodian we're going to build the largest Buddhist temple in North America in Minnesota? Well, Mr. Wang, I wish I could say I was part of that decision making process, but I was not. But I was just there this weekend to join in on the festivities. The new years has passed, but because of weather, because of all these things, the temple decided to delay some of the celebration. So I was just there this past weekend with my family. It is an amazing place. It is amazing. It is. The largest Buddhist temple in North America is in the farmlands of Minnesota, right there in Hampton, Minnesota. Like you said, 20 minutes from from where you live. It is pretty magnificent. I was in awe when I when I first visited. I thought I was in Cambodia somewhere. Yeah, and a lot of a lot of the artwork is imported from Cambodia. Yes. I don't know the inner workings of in terms of the temple business, but Buddhism and spirituality is a big part of Cambodian people's lives. You know, it's an anchor, right? And I want to be clear that Cambodia is a very diverse kind of population. Cambodia is the political borders of the kingdom of Cambodia. But within Cambodia, there are thriving and healthy Muslim communities. We call them the cha. And they are Cambodians, too. There are many other minorities in Cambodia, indigenous people. There are indigenous communities in Cambodia. And they're part of our society, too, who may not subscribe to Buddhism. But you are correct in the sense that the overwhelming majority of Cambodians do identify as Buddhists. And it's a major part of our lives, right? It's a major part of the way we view the world, right? I'm not sure if I'm the best son in the sense that I don't go to temple all the time, but I grew up with an altar at home. I grew up knowing that worshiping our ancestors and our respects was something that we have to do. So kind of like my Catholic friend, there is a Buddhist guilt. Not as strong, but it's there. I know what you mean. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. It's a big part of my life as well. I grew up partying in the Mahayana tradition, but I'm increasingly, because I think I'm getting older. I'm increasingly interested in Tirada or partying. Well, because I feel it's extremely infinity to the Cambodian people, the Cambodian culture, not only because of the shared religious tradition, but also the shared suffering, pain and suffering. The Cambodians have endured, excruciating the anguish and the witness, un-totally unspeakable horrors from the genocide. And in the past 20, 30 years, the globalization and urban prosperity have given us some hope that modernity and civilization will save us from totalitarian cruelty and barbarity. But unfortunately, looking at the humanitarian crisis in Europe, in Asia, and in the Middle East right now, and of all of the man-made disasters from war, bombing, lockdown, and all of this, and I have much less faith in our common destiny. One quote I repeatedly hear from my Chinese friend is, this year 2022 will be the best year in the next 20 years. 2021 was the best year in the next 20 years. 2022 will be the best year in 2020, in the next 20 years, which does not give a lot of you know, promising future to hopeful. What do you think? Well, I hope the crisis right now in Europe, in Ukraine, I think it's a reminder that we're still working on this thing. And it's a reminder of not only a responsibility to our fellow men and women you know, at the moment in Europe, but also those that preceded them, right? Like Cambodian, right? Like when I say Cambodian, I'm just I'm talking about Southeast Asian communities here in the U.S. who came here as displaced people, you know, just like many Ukrainians will, you know, are and just like it's not too long ago, many Afghans are still working on finding and creating new communities, right? You know, and I caution people to think that I encourage people to reflect on this response that we're seeing right now for Ukrainians relative to earlier crises, you know, with Afghans, and I would say with people from the global south, right, versus white Europeans, right? There's a difference in how people are able to connect with the experiences of European refugees relative to folks from, you know, Asia, folks from, you know, other other places which they don't look, you know, the same, right? And so I that's what I think, right? That's what I think about. And it's it's a something pretty personal and fairly intimate to my own life. You know what I mean? Yeah, yes, I agree. Thank you very much. Well, you've been away from, you were born in Cambodia, basically, and even in a camp. And when was your last time in Cambodia? Did you get a chance to visit Cambodia often in the past decades? I was there three weeks ago. Oh, my. Yeah, that was the first time since, you know, during the pandemic, these things opened up out there to conduct a sort of site visit as I step them establishing some kind of internships in a broad program, you know, some organizations in Cambodia. I've been traveling to Cambodia, working on issues of resettlement for Cambodian Americans who are who have been forcibly removed and deported from the United States to Cambodia. So I've been supporting individuals and families over there. So like I said, like I said, and now I write about these things to sort of shed some light, enhance understanding of people's lives, and also to ask some serious questions about particular policies that have led to the circumstance. I'm an accidental academic, and I don't really have some kind of roadmap to the things I study and the things I write about. They just kind of things happen. I feel that it's my responsibility to address those things, the things that feel most urgent. And a lot of these folks I've met, they have Minnesota origin, their families are from. So it's been some of the most gratifying work. Yeah, thank you for doing that. You definitely make a difference to a lot of people's lives. And I'm glad you have an opportunity to travel back to Cambodia. Back to the homeland. Yeah, great. It's a, I do, because of the pandemic, is the internet travel is coming right. And for me, it's a, it's absolutely, you know, nearly impossible to travel back to China in the near future. But we can talk about that later. But we are running out of time, but I do want to ask you two questions. We normally wrap up our show, question to our distinguished guest. Question one is, if you were giving some advice to yourself in the 20s, what would you say? Second question is, any books or the fiction or nonfiction movies or documentary you enjoy or you recommend to our audience sometime could be related to your cultural heritage, not necessarily. And I have read some books about Cambodia and Cambodian Buddhism. I've watched a movie about the genocide. I'm not going to recommend it. I want to hear your recommendation, please. Okay, well, you know, advice for me in my 20s. Well, where do I start? Where do I start? I think, I think that the advice that I would give to myself in my 20s is to just to hang in there, right? Everything that's hard asses, you know, and I'm not, I'm not like, I don't subscribe to the, you know, whatever doesn't kill you make you stronger because I'm okay without those hard things, you know, but hard things pass, you know, and I give that to myself in my 20s, my 30s and now my 40s. So I think, I think that's something that, you know, young people may not fully appreciate. Good books and movies. Well, you know, I, gosh, I don't even know where to start, but I'll tell you, I'll tell you something that I was obsessed with for a while, that will surprise people. You know, I just finished this series, it's an older TV show. This is not like, you know, high intellectual or anything like that, but I just finished the TV show Friday Night Lights. It's about Texas football, you know, and I've been watching it on Netflix and I just enjoyed it. It's about small town football. It's about, but it's really about people. It's really about the community rallying around this thing that's a source of pride, right? In Texas. Yeah, there's a movie, there's a movie, but I'm talking about the TV show. And I just felt so connected to the different characters, but, you know, it's about people's dreams, about families, things that are universal to us and to our different communities and to the things that we want for our children, you know, so Friday Night Lights. Absolutely, thank you so much. I look very much look forward to watch it. You know, what do you like your recommendation that reminded me that when I was in graduate school, my professor teaching international journalism tells me that I have traveled to 84 countries. And after 25 years of traveling 84 countries, my conclusion is people all the same. So I do not distinguish people from their skin color, from their ethnic minority, from their accent, from the language, and because people all the same, you know, anywhere, any country, any culture, I have good people, bad people, smart people, not too smart people. You know, people have the ability of empathizing with other people. People don't have ability to empathize with other people, the powerful people, the, you know, governors. So I very much look forward to, I have never watched a TV show about Texas. Oh, you got to check it out. Yeah, I will check it out. Definitely. Now, I mean, to your point, just the things that connect us in this world are very powerful. Exactly. Humanity. At the end of the day, we are all humans. And thank you so much, Professor Twin. No, it's been my pleasure. It's a great privilege to have you on our show. And amazing to hear your story. Thank you for sharing your, your life story, your educational interests, background, and research interest. And you won for recommendation of Texas Football Night. Thank you. Yeah, we hope, we hope we can go to the temple together. Absolutely. And we're going to look forward to having you back on the show. And we will discuss it more about your research and your work in Cambodia. I look forward to it. Thank you so much, Professor Twin. A nation of immigrants. Today is the guest of Professor Winch Twin from the University of Minnesota. Thank you. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.