 Hello, and welcome to a real conversation between two native English speakers. I'm Liz Wade, and this, as always, is Adam Navas. Hello. Hello. And we are going to talk about the program Isidore Charters, the Healing Poll. And I was almost going to say a different program because these two programs are companion programs. They really do go together. And so if you've listened to the Isidore Charters program, but you haven't listened to the Truth and Reconciliation for Canada program, I would also encourage you to go back and listen to that program as well. It tells a wider history of where this program sits. And so that will be really great. So before you listen to this conversation, make sure you listen to those two programs, Truth and Reconciliation for Canada, and today's program, Isidore Charters, the Healing Poll. And if you want to know where to find those programs, you can find them on our website where you can listen and follow along, that's www.spotlightenglish.com. You can also find them as a podcast wherever you download your podcasts. And of course you can find them on YouTube, on our channel, as a classic, a no music and an advanced version, so listen to it however fast you like, with music or without music. All of those choices are there. And we hope once you've listened to that, you also check out our channel to join as a member. Click the little join button underneath this video and find out what that can get for you. It's additional resources from us. Your gift every month helps us make programming. It helps us make videos. It helps us research programs and do all of the cool stuff. And of course you get access to things like PDF scripts, video shoutouts. It really is one of the best, cheapest, most fun ways that you can invest in your English learning on the internet. So Adam, I think it's really important that people have a little bit of a backstory about this program. And so in the Truth and Reconciliation for Canada program, can you kind of summarize what that program was about? Well, yes, I'm going to start by saying the topics of both this program and that program are not easy topics. These are not fun or, here's a fun English word, frivolous, which means it has no emotions with it. Yeah, they're very difficult topics to deal with. So I'm summarizing a lot. Like Liz said, you can listen to that program, but they're in Canada, like in many countries. Many of the native peoples were not treated very well by the government or those people who had power. And there were a series of abuses, especially for children, for people who were taken away from their families, put in school systems where they were not allowed to speak anything but English, not allowed to practice where the traditional clothing or have any contact. Many of the people died without having children. Yes, many of them died and their parents only found out either much later or not at all. They were just kind of lost in those situations. Well, then the government eventually set up a commission to investigate, to share these stories and to try to create some kind of healing. I think that's the broad picture of it. It is a hard program to listen to, but it does have some kind of hope and positivity coming out of it. Is that a fair summary? Yeah, and I think the positivity, because it's a very difficult subject, like you were saying, and also it is continuing. Not only did they still just find remains this past summer, 2021, of unidentified children who went to these schools, but with that program, we heard from many listeners who said, you know, we have a history like this in our country, or I have seen a history like this in different places. And so it is a sort of issue that is not just in the past. It's something that people are continuing to deal with. And the positive sort of thing you can take out of that is the healing that people are working toward, right? Listening to the stories that come from people who have been suffering. And the apologies that are coming from the people who are ancestors of the people in power. And that is where this program comes in, because it really tells a story of healing that came out from that story, that history. And that is the healing of Isidore Charters. And of course, he is just one person. You know, his story is just his story. Many people are finding healing, or maybe not finding healing. Maybe they need to, maybe they haven't found that piece. You're raising a good point, and I think it's worth, like, dwelling in for a minute, is that we at Spotlight like to tell inspirational stories. People who have worked through something difficult. But we never want to seem that this is what you should do if you're in a difficult situation. Your story might be different. And you might not be ready to forgive, or you might not be ready to let go of some of the hurt, or you might need a different process to find your healing. And so we want to celebrate these stories, but we never want to make anyone feel badly that they're, that they've been hurt, or that they can't do what, do that level of forgiveness or healing. Yeah. Right. And so this particular story from Isidore Charters is also part of, in the Truth and Reconciliation for Canada program, we looked at one of the, one, a white man who was an ancestor of those European settlers, and he, you know, he has admitted, like, I have benefited from that terrible situation in Canada. So what he wanted to do is he wanted to sort of build bridges and help with this healing to apologize, to give back not only monetarily, but also, like, just, yeah, with his time and telling the stories. So he worked with Isidore Charters to make a video, a movie, about his experience. And so, yeah, let's talk a little bit about Isidore Charters. I love how this program starts out because it's so gut-wrenching, right? It starts with an older man standing on, like, in nature, outside in a field. And he's looking over the land that he once played on as a boy. And of course, he's much older now, and, like, he's reflecting on things that have changed so much and on his life because he was, he was part of First Nations people in Canada. And he was taken as a child along with, I think he had a few brothers as well. They were taken in a truck to a residential school, and they took away his name. He was called Yenemo Sitsa. That was his birth name, his given name. And when he got there, they said, that's not your name anymore. You may not answer to it. You are now called Isidore Charters, and that was his name. He was not allowed to wear any of his normal clothes, his cultural clothes. He was not allowed to speak his native language. He could only speak English, like you said before as you were describing the schools. Yeah. And so he also experienced a lot of turmoil at the school, a lot of bad things. He was abused by one of the leaders there at the school. And I think one of the interesting things about Isidore Charters is that he actually has used art his whole life in expressing himself. And so when he was going through this abuse at the school, he was using art, but he was drawing just terrible, scary things, I guess, like knives coming out of people's mouths and things like that, that were just scary and terrible, trying to express that pain and anguish he felt inside. But then, and also he was an alcoholic. He turned to drinking alcohol to try and help his pain. And of course, we know that that can't ever be a solution really for anyone. Art is a more positive way of dealing with that. But alcohol is sometimes, we understand why people in tremendous amount of pain turn to alcohol, because it's such, it just speaks to the level of pain that they're feeling, that they need to dull it and manage it in a way. Right. And he was only 12. I mean, he was so young. That's a young child. And when he got older, he was able to go to an art school where he learned more. And now he is working, he's using art to tell his story and to tell the story of First Nations people in many places in Canada. Now I will say, this program also tells about his story of faith and how that has helped him get through things. Of course, the residential school was run by Christians, I think by Catholics, I'm not exactly sure Catholics, maybe? The script says Catholics, yes. Yes. And yeah, that's very difficult because he also describes, he had an interview with the writer of this program. He also describes how he still felt God at the school, like he had a feeling that God was with him in the school. And the program describes, well, and he described to the writer of this program, how at one point he sat with his back to the school and his face toward the world, toward creation and asked for help from God and asked God to be with him. And I think that's really interesting. I think it's difficult when any people who represent religion, who represent God, do things that are abusive or that are, and it happens, it's not just this one, if this were the only time that church leaders or religious leaders made mistakes and really abused, that would be great if this were the only time, but it happens. And I think that someone like Isidore can not have that shape, their understanding in negative ways, who can kind of say like, no, those are people, right? That there is something else and that they can look for something else and not just forgive, but to move on and be like, oh, I was a child, they were, that was just, they weren't God, they were just, you know, in that role at that time. That's really hard to do. And again, I could never ask someone to do that, but I would hope that people could do that. Yeah. So, he also, part of his art for healing is that he is, well, was, he was, because this story is years old, right? He did these things in the past, but not in the way past, but you know, in the last 10 years, 20 years. And he, he was creating a totem pole, which is a part of First Nations culture, his First Nations culture. And that is like carving like a long, thin piece of wood, like almost like a tree trunk or, yeah, a pole. Yeah, that's a good way of saying it. And then carving it, yeah, like real big, carving it with stories and symbols from his culture. But then also, and I think this as an artist would be very difficult, letting other people also carve onto this piece what, what they think is appropriate or what they want to add. So, it's sort of a, a coming together of cultures, right? So, some of the pictures that we show on the website show like students at a college, like they are descendants of the white European settlers, also carving on this, on this totem pole. And so, it's a mixture, this, this art, this totem pole is a mixture of the, of Charter's First Nations culture and then the European culture mixing together, going together. And then, of course, it was placed when it was finished, it was placed at the old residential school where he grew up, which is, yeah, I also think interesting, what a, what a symbol, right? At a place of pain where it can also be remembered, but we're going forward in healing. Right, because remembering things, difficult things of the past does not mean we are celebrating them. It does not mean we are not trying to move past them, but remembering things of the past are a way to take away some of the power, take away some of the power and influence on our lives right now. And I think a lot of times our instinct as an individual or as a society is just to move past that. Let's say that's in the past, it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect things. Yeah, let's ignore it. Let's ignore it. And I know that that doesn't work for me personally and I don't think it works for us as a culture or a society as well. No. Yeah, it's a, it's an interesting story and an interesting perspective, unforgiveness and healing and, yeah, I would love to hear what our listeners have to say about that story. Do you think that's something that could help those situations in your own countries or is that healing, is that just in name only? Is it possible to have true healing through those things? Yeah. Well, as we said before, we hope you like this video on YouTube. 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