 I'm doing it for recording purposes. I'm sure my voice is loud enough to be heard at the rear but they've asked me to use the mic. I have the opportunity to stand on the shoulders of giants. We have in the audience here Bob Waldy who will be speaking after me. One of the reasons I'm here is because I was inspired by a company called Stallion many years ago and I'm embarrassing Bob by sharing the story but I do want to pay tributes to those who have come before me and continue to do great work for Brisbane. I am going to talk a little bit about some of the economic advantages that I think Brisbane has and some of the opportunities that I think those who are motivated and willing to participate in the open source community can get some economic benefit out of so there is ways to make money out of open source software. Red Hat obviously is a good example of that. So I'm going to do one slide about Red Hat for those of you who don't know just to set some context about the company that I'll be talking about and their Brisbane operations. A lot of you will have seen the brief that I had provided Martin and thank you for the introduction Martin is why is Red Hat in Brisbane? Why are we here? And I'm going to answer that story by talking about some of the demand. This is the business track of open source software so I'm going to use that supply demand analysis and I'm going to talk about some of the demand for open source and some of the skills and services that are associated with open source and then talk about how Red Hat chose Brisbane to be able to supply some of those to meet some of that demand. So Red Hat as a company and this is the only corporate slide was founded in 1993 IPO in 1999 66 offices and 30 countries revenues in excess of 700 million US dollars last year that's our goal to be a $1 billion company by the end of our next financial year. So it's certainly been a very successful company but a very hard place to work for the just have my 10th anniversary for all of those who all the Red Hat is in the audience 10 years of Red Hat last year and it's been a wild ride certainly when I joined the company has changed dramatically over the last 10 years and through telling the story of Red Hat in Brisbane I think you'll see how we've evolved as well to to meet the demand for Red Hat's services and upside to the downturn so this is a presentation that I gave to Linux conference back in 2002 when Red Hat was only just started so I wanted to try and use this as an opportunity to talk about the fact that the global financial crisis has been a challenge for many economically most of the small businesses that we know that we have relationships with in Brisbane have been going through hard times in my role I travel through India China and the Czech Republic and globally I've seen the impact of the global financial crisis the difficulty it's been to you know for companies to grow in these in these economic times so my objective here is to give you a bit of a background of why I think some demand is going to continue and why I think we continue to have an opportunity to build thriving businesses around open source software and that's because of the demand for it going back to 2002 when I first presented this a lot of the content hasn't changed and that surprised me in preparing for this talk I did anticipate that things would happen much faster so 10 years ago when I was you know a little younger a little naive and getting excited about joining Red Hat and the opportunity that open source had it took a long time to achieve some of these objectives but we can see here one of the main reasons that I think there will continue to be economic opportunities around open source and that's because of the demand for open source in Asia and it's driven let's you know the it's it's touching go where the Japan or China or the world's second largest economy there are by the second or third depending on where you are and when you do that numbers so we've got two of the largest world economies in Asia and we're in the same time zone and we have a lot of skill sets associated with Asia increasing deployment of open source software many of you if you followed open source deployments throughout Asia will have heard of red flag you may have heard of Hancom you may have heard of Miracle there's a large number of Linux distributions that have grown up in China Japan and Korea and they occurred because of the demand for Linux India is a recently joined the free software foundation one of the most exciting projects that I've seen happening in India recently is their national ID project the unique ID project of India where they intend to issue an identity card to every citizen of India the purposes are primarily to reduce fraud so there's a lot of people claiming benefits and they believe that if they can get rid of at least one or two percent of those fraudulent cases they could fund the program completely the code for that project is developed as an open source project literally it's a government-run project and it's all done in an open source fashion predominantly with open source software so in terms of a not just the economic benefits the lower cost you know the total cost of ownership being better with Linux open source giving you freeing you from vendor lock-in it's reached to a point where governments are now not only embracing those value propositions but also embracing the way that the software is developed so the government projects are being run under an open source model I think it's a really important example of a tipping point that we see in major governments throughout Asia and let's face it major governments in Asia have got a lot of money so that's where we see the economic opportunity continues to grow so the open source advantage in Asia is input method technology Red Hat in Brisbane has been developing input method technology and we have now worked with our offices in China to implement iBus it's the reference implementation for the CJK Northeast Asia open source software symposium there's a collaborative China Japanese and Korean government effort to coordinate in seven different layers one of those is on input method technologies it's a very important part of the industry throughout Asia most of you appear to be speaking and hopefully familiar with English and a familiar with using English entries your for character entry for Asian languages it's it could be a very complex and at times a very expensive exercise to get input methods that are available to you in your language Chinese has well mainland Chinese has over 28,000 characters in their GB 80 no 3o standard and to pick one of those 28,000 characters requires very complex software traditionally that's been an industry locked up by proprietary input methods but recently they've moved and Northeast Asia open source software symposium a conglomerate of the three governments have agreed to adopt iBus as a reference implementation and that's completely open source and primarily developed by Red Hat so it's a real game changer for those who have to use Asian language technologies there's also as I'm sure you will have seen if anyone's following slash dot or recent news there is and the venerable Jeff Houston is doing a keynote I think tomorrow Jeff Houston speaking tomorrow or Wednesday is it strongly recommend you go see Jeff he's a good friend of mine he wrote the OECD paper on the depletion of IPv4 and the necessary need to migrate to IPv6 IPv6 has been around for almost 15 years a lot of the standards development and certainly a lot of the early implementations were done by Japanese vendors so there's a lot of technology and to some extent a there's both a supply of IPv6 skills in Asia and a high demand IPv6 skills in Asia so AP Nick the Asia Pacific Network Information Center where I worked previously is about to make a request for a slash eight in the next couple of weeks and when that happens that will trigger the other registries getting their slash eights as well and that will mark the end of available IPv4 address base so these sort of tipping points are going to continue to happen and I think Asia has a has a potential economic advantage by having been you know being a being forced to use v6 earlier than others but also by having been involved in this development early on and obviously a lot of Asian language technology is developed here locally so I'll talk specifically about China Japan and Korea where this demand is coming from we see that the Chinese government wants to comply with software copyright and you know the safe use of software so they've been investing in local Linux companies they've been encouraging Linux and open source software for government procurement since 2002 red flag is a very famous Chinese distribution there are many others three or four famous ones just in Hong Kong alone so there's a lot of opportunity for Linux distributions to meet local demand and as the market has matured it's gone beyond just the Linux distributions into middleware stacks programming languages other opportunities training and input methods that I mentioned earlier so that's not going to change this is part of the Chinese government push to get away from pirated software they want to get to open source because it solves that problem for them Japan as I mentioned earlier were the lead were some of the leading developers of IPv6 certainly NEC and their their implementations on routers was was very early on and as a country they have had a strong push for open source software in education and in government so they've been doing this from probably about 2003 2004 where they've had research into the adoption of open source software for education sectors so again government demand for open source software and for all of you who may have contributed to open source software in the past it's an economic opportunity either in countries that we're either in these countries specifically or to provide services to these countries as they continue to adopt open source software career is probably one of the most famous for the use of Linux and embedded devices Missy Linux the early use of Linux for embedded has been a very prevalent and that one point in 2006 2007 I think there were over 30 Linux handsets so we go back four years everybody's heard of Android now but we go back four or five years and we can see just as prevalent Linux adoption on embedded devices in Korea so they were certainly ahead of the curve in terms of adopting Linux from better devices government procurement there's even an initiative inside of Korea to do a Korean distribution you will have seen in the press recently talk of Russia creating a Russian Linux distribution this nationalization of Linux I'm not sure sure I agree that that's the right approach it does have a bit of a fork a mentality to it so I think there would be issues over time with countries that have tried to create their country specific distribution I think that that kind of misses the point of it being a communal global effort but it does show that they're trying to embrace open source and they're trying to make it their own and that creates an opportunity to meet that demand governments want to get to have the ability to read the code you know the ability all of the advantages that you probably have felt by using open source in the past so to summarize strong government support and government hold a lot of money particularly in China Japan and Korea so that's going to give us an opportunity for developing nations to break out of piracy a lot of the developing nations asian nations don't want to do software piracy they would just want to get their job done with computers and open source gives them that ability to do so they've been Asia has been a leading technology provider and implement it for some of these emerging technologies IPv6 that I mentioned earlier and there's a lot lower barrier to entry there's no sort of intellectual property barriers to the adoption or understanding open source software so it makes it much easier for them to embrace it okay so hopefully I've left you all with a demand and now we're going to talk about how Red Hat in Brisbane has grown to meet that demand indirectly and directly so I have the pleasure of running our operations in India and China so they report up to me so it's not a combative relationship the success of Red Hat worldwide has meant that we have grown operations in China and India but it's also helped Red Hat in Brisbane to grow so we've grown together as opposed to having to lose jobs to India or China and I think we can sustain a competitive advantage in the Queensland or the Australian economy because of some key points here first one being economic you may be surprised to see that I would be willing to put up a slide saying that Australia's got some economic advantages but it does one of the things that you learn as you start to budget and plan for staff across the globe is that wild fluctuations in exchange rates or cost of livings can make your budgeting and planning exercises very difficult Australia has had a great track record a very predictable stable economy my personal belief is that a lot of that's based on the fact that we're the world's largest exporter of coking coal and one of the reasons I'm participating in an event like this is because I think we can't remain dependent on exporting coal around the world we need to become a services economy at some point and I think we have great opportunity to be exporting services which I'll talk through here but that has made a big difference to Red Hat's ability to plan and to execute comfortably in Australia because it is very easy to predict it's a very stable economy culturally and I know this again probably would go without saying but the Australia as a multicultural society has federal government state government local government support and QUT is the university that we're now is a great example of the impact of that so we've had federal legislation for multiculturalism since the 80s state legislation after that and what it's meant is that we're a great exporter of education over 30% of the IT graduates coming from QUT are from outside Australia so I have a as a business operator I've got a regular supply of graduates with language skills and IT degrees willing and interested in living in this country and that's a real advantage that's an economic and a cultural advantage that not many other places in the world can have where we're able to get all of these multicultural people from Europe people from Asia not just willing to to study in Australia but also willing to stay and work in Australia and that's an advantage that not many other countries in the world have information technology and innovation so the Queensland government has had the smart state initiative for those of you who are outside of Queensland or Australia you will see the occasional smart state on our license plates there's a Australian tall poppy backlash to that we're not very comfortable calling ourselves a smart state but I'm one of those people that says you know I'm on the side of the coin that if you keep saying it and keep delivering it eventually it'll come true so I want us to be a smart state I don't want us to be a coal exporter for the rest of our lives and I think we can add higher value to the world and one of the ways that we can do that is by having a stable economy and a great supply of IT skilled language multi-lingual people this current practice Red Hat's not the only company that has identified the opportunity that Queensland presents there are a lot of other companies that have chosen to set up headquarters here or have grown large operations here Boeing has its Asia Pacific headquarters here Oracle has a large development team here Stellar are a very large call center operated down on the Gold Coast and Citibank also do their call center work from here I pick our call center but that's mostly because of the brand names here but there are a lot of other very successful software companies based in Brisbane so now I'm going to move on to the what does Red Hat do in Brisbane part and the objective of the background here was to show that there's a demand Asia is going to continue to demand skills in open source that may be training that may be input method technology it may be operating systems providers it may be middleware providers there's a demand for those open source services in Asia and it's going to continue to grow and Brisbane has an advantage has an economic advantage and that's a stable economy we have a ready supply of multi-lingual IT skilled graduates and the Red Hat's been able to capitalize on that as some of the other companies that I mentioned as well so Red Hat began in November 1999 as a sales and marketing operation we were located on James Street in the Valley one of the areas probably recently affected by flooding and we were at a small townhouse you know only a handful of staff I joined I think it's about employee number four in 2001 no worries yet I'm probably going too fast anyway so gives me a chance to slow down okay and at the time we the operations were started under the brief of being the regional headquarters for sales and marketing so Red Hat was beginning to get demand certainly in Japan being one of our most mature markets from a very early stage they wanted to be able to get access to Red Hat and at the time it was a small North Carolina company they picked Brisbane as their headquarters for a couple of reasons I wasn't with the company at the time but one of the reasons that we shared because I also relocated the Asia Pacific Network Information Center from Tokyo to Brisbane was because of a KPMG report that was published at around this period of time and KPMG did a study of the cost of operations throughout Asia and what they found was and they still do maintain this report is generally focusing on off-capital cities so if you're in Sydney price of real estate average salaries you know the cost of living generally higher so Brisbane has got economic advantage in all those three areas so the KPMG study showed that IT skills were as a good supply of IT skills Brisbane had an economic advantage over Sydney and Melbourne in terms of cost of operations and so as a location from which to grow the Asia Pacific base Red Hat picked Brisbane as did I when I was relocating AP Nick from out of Tokyo in 2001 we realized I joined the company we were getting a lot of Japanese people calling Raleigh North Carolina trying to speak Japanese and they were having trouble filling that language skills from from the East Coast of the US so we offered to provide that technical support and it began so the operations outside of a sales and marketing activity began in Brisbane by providing Japanese technical support and that's continued to write through to today where ironically it's not so much our Asian language skills which has been the greatest asset of the technical support team in Australia it's been the Australian attitude and how much it's appreciated by the West Coast of the United States so we have a large segment of our customer base who will wait for the support English support to roll around to Australia because they built friendships with the Australian support team so we do a lot of support obviously for companies in Australia New Zealand and any English-speaking ASEAN countries and we also do the after hours follow the Sun Support Centre work for for the United States and to this day Red Hat remains one Red Hat in Brisbane is one of the five follow the Sun Support Centres for for Red Hat. I joined in 2001 with the mandate to do a Asian products so we were a much smaller company back then about 400 staff we're just over 4,000 now I think we're approaching 4,000 so we're 10 times bigger now than when I joined the company back then and we were given carte blanche we were free to do our own distribution so we did we literally made we forked off of the mothership and made our own Japanese Chinese and Korean versions and then over time slowly worked that skill set back into the company as the global demand for for internationalization continued but this is where the research and development activities that came out of Brisbane began was with being given the mandate to do a Chinese Japanese and Korean version of our product so like most startups we outsourced most things in the beginning and internationalization wasn't something that we could outsource there was no anyone who was around during the UNIX wars will have remembered that internationalization and particularly input method technology was quite broken at the end of the UNIX wars we only had the X input architecture and you know if you wanted to switch languages you had to log out of your desktop and log back in again so there was a lot of research that needed to happen just in terms of core rendering and rendering input and print display technology that was brave new world nobody had ever done it before we certainly couldn't copy it from UNIX because it it kind of stopped halfway through but for 2001 we use third party so we use translation companies what we identified early on was that most of the large translation companies worldwide were very familiar with the lingua franca of windows in Microsoft and so when we tried to use them for localization of open source software it's a different vocabulary it's a different language they didn't do a good job of it so we chose to bring that in-house primarily to have that ability to educate a set of staff on the language of open source it's gone on to mean a lot more to us than just the ability to deliver good translations so it's specifically called localization because we found that investing in people whose native language skills are their primary asset but have an IT background that there's lots of tertiary benefits and the way the translation industry is structured today you rarely get to use that advantage so if you've got a dedicated Japanese associate who's part of the red hat brand and they're translating a piece of collateral they're going to have a very different attachment to the material than somebody using a third-party translation company so they they're invested in the material that they're doing the other advantage given that we're co-located with internationalization is that we can use them to test our software so to do a Japanese translation you have to have a Japanese input method and we're producing the input method technology here in Brisbane so there was a proximity advantage by co-locating internationalization and localization a third advantage occurred later when we started to do quality engineering so that that one localization person you have hired as a translator now has become a quality engineer have become a user interface tester and as and also continues in that role of translation the most important advantage that I think has occurred for red hat and what has made us sustainable here is that we acknowledge that we're part of a community so all of the Japanese all of the translators that red hat have have a mandate and a responsibility to be part of their local language community so you know translators up for Japanese Korean and Chinese have been with red hat for almost 10 years as long as I have and many of them are community leaders in the Fedora project or the Mozilla translation for Chinese or the GNOME Korean translations are done by red hats and they have that dual responsibility of corporate performance but also community contribution and that's made it very sustainable for us they're very high their associates but they're also very high value for us because they can influence the adoption of technology they can influence the quality of the translation before it even becomes a product and there's a lot of tertiary benefit there that those from a traditional proprietary software ship off your message strings get your translated strings back ship the product they miss out on all of that the feedback loop of being part of a community 2004 we took on product management this is when red hat was going to be a box product company we were selling t-shirts mugs and poker books and so we took on that responsibility Asia was still to this day suffers from lack of ubiquitous bandwidth and that's probably one of the most common conversations I have with my European and American counterparts is that downloading this DVD it's going to be cheaper for me if you to ship it to me in the post then for me to expand expand all of my bandwidth trying to download it so a lot of folks don't realize that bandwidth in Asia is a still a precious commodity and it's very expensive so we were had a large demand for for poker books just as a way to distribute Linux as interesting open source started to grow through Asia so we took on product management we also consolidated European language translations here so since 2004 we've been doing all of the European work for for red hat from here customer service so then red hats beginning to in Brisbane begins to get an internal brand and in an internal recognition and the language skills that we able to provide the product engineering group become and a technical support group become of interest to other parts of the company and customer service so those not related to technical support begin their operations and continue to do their operations for Asian language support from here product management gets crossed out because we no longer do box product we don't we don't do retail anymore quality engineering I mentioned earlier about the proximity advantage of having the internationalization engineers in proximity with the localization services providers coupled with quality engineering and we can see that we're able to do desktop testing not just in English but in all of the 23 languages that Red Hat now support from a single location for those of you who do large-scale software development what you will encounter is that localization internationalization all of those sort of activities are right right at the end you know they're the tail of the dog no matter how good your program management or you know your formal software development lifecycle may be it inevitably comes to some as a patch that needs to go in I've got a break string freeze can translation catch up and can we still keep to the ship date so anyone is faced that sort of commercial pressure of delivering software realize that these are very much tail activities in the last things that people think of when they're making a code change and by having all of us related to localization internationalization and the testing of it co-located it gives us very rapid response so we're not going to translation vendors all around the world trying to coordinate getting at you know translations in on time within 24 hours so often what happens at Red Hat is that there will be a string freeze then an engineer or break it it's a major UI component we need to get it fixed we can't ship the product without it and within 24 hours we can turn it around so the US shut down Australia turns on we can translate it into all those languages we can verify that it fits within the UI we can test it we can commit the code changes back and by the next morning the US have got working software and all the languages so we're one of the few companies that is capable of what in the industry is called sim ship we can simultaneously ship all languages at the same time Oracle has done a pretty good track record of that as well and Microsoft unfortunately hasn't had a good track record there it's a major tactical advantage if you're producing large volumes of software to be able to sim ship because you're only ever having to wonder worry about one master you're not having to worry about or did I patch the Korean version did the Japanese version get packed you don't have to worry about that when you're a sim ship company and it's a real tactical advantage for it so not only as the fact that we're in Asia and advantage the fact that we're off time zone we've capitalized on that advantage as well other long-running activities you know IPv6 it's a hell of a lot easier for me to get an IPv6 engineer here in Australia or in Asia than it is in the United States there's just not the demand for it or if there is an IPv6 engineer in the US they're very expensive because they're a department of defense have already started to soak them all up where IPv6 here has been common for a long time you know APNIC was one of the first registries to start issuing IPv6 address space and then certainly for the next ten years it's going to be the largest distributor of IPv6 in the world. Open ITNAN, open internationalization standards, Linux standards based certification, the Chinese government GB80-030 which is a physical test it's not just a rubber stamp you do literally have your operating system installed and they will randomly pick when you wanted their 28,000 characters and they'll tell you how do I put in that character and make sure it comes out on that printer it's a real test and I'm very proud to say that we were the first non-Chinese company to achieve A plus certification for our operating system as a direct result of two engineers here in Brisbane and it was a pretty grueling start but it's something we've been able to achieve ever since. So I'll keep moving on for the Red Haters in the audience some of the timelines it may not have been exactly 2007 so for dramatic effect I've aligned certain activities to to annual boundaries content services was the next one that we that we chose to bring to Australia. So Australia's got a great hidden ability to produce good content there's lots of technical authors here in Queensland and many of them are a very high caliber so once we realize there's an advantage in keeping internationalization and localization in the same time zone we thought well what if the English content was also produced in time zone so that the the English writer couldn't escape the wrath of 23 people who just had to translate their bad sentence so believe me it works so we've moved content services to Brisbane and we're now from our operations here maintaining over two and a half thousand manuals technical manuals a built written distributed and translated from the Brisbane office so what we've done internally is try to identify where the benefits of time zone and proximity have added value and where we've got a skill set to meet that demand and focused on those areas of contribution and you can see how we're continuing through here once we had this many people so we're somewhere between a hundred and a hundred and forty staff in Brisbane we're over 200 throughout Australia with operations in Sydney and Melbourne we needed to have support we're up to just under 200 staff in China about a hundred in India so we needed to have as you can imagine with 400 engineers in this time zone writing code producing material they needed a lot of operational support so engineering operations was established in Brisbane and we're one of the support centers for the internal engineering group there's some great examples here of where that and I don't normally do the Australian thing by the way I speak internationally but assuming that we're in Brisbane is a Brisbane audience I'll talk a little bit about some of the strengths of the Australian attitude and it's that get in and do it get your hands dirty I could say that about the Indian time in the Czech Republic of course as well but that get in and get things done attitude has been a real advantage for us and you can see this with some other Brisbane companies that have come through the incubator the I I hub incubator at Tawang company called CVS dude later renamed to co-decision if you haven't heard of it great Brisbane startup recently acquired did basically what engineering operations do they run version control systems bug tracking systems the nuts and bolts the most systems administration for engineers and Mark Bathy started that that operation in Tawang and and has been a very successful company so we did basically the same thing so although I'm talking about Red Hat internally as a customer all of these proof points I can give you Brisbane startups who've done basically the same thing to a commercial audience so where we took on engineering operations we got CVS dude now named co-decision doing basically the same same activity because of the skill sets that are available here and the off hours the off hours advantage with the US by 2009 our contributions to input method technology have now gone upstream were world leaders and the Chinese Japanese and Korean governments have adopted our reference implementation for input method technologies that's had a lot of impact on Red Hat in terms of our GNOME development team and in particular with our X11 core graphics team so a couple of esteemed Red Hat colleagues will be presenting David Ailey is one of them anyone who's seen the mode setting move into the kernel will be familiar with Dave's work and he's based here in Brisbane once you get somebody of that caliber in your organization they can attract other talent as well so we've started to build our core X11 team here in Brisbane as well finally by 2010 we get some back office support we finally get some recruiting and finance showing up which making our life a lot easier but it shows that we've kind of we've come full circle we originally started as a sales and marketing headquarters at some point along the line that moved to Singapore and quite happy to keep sales and marketing out of my engineering facilities but now we've come full circle and we're back to a real operation where we have you know finance and HR and all those sort of supporting services based out of Brisbane so is there an upside to the economic downturn I believe there is and it's based on being able to find ways to capitalize on the advantages that you have you know I work with you know hundreds of engineers in the Czech Republic India and China and our constantly are talking about what skill sets does this geography this time zone bring you know the great thing about open sources you get contributors everywhere you know we find kernel developers in Beijing who've been writing device drivers for mobile phones for four years incredible you just wow we are where were you why didn't we know about you India and their contributions to fonts and to unicode standards really world-leading in terms of their ability to influence international design the Czech Republic you know long-term contributors to the Linux kernel go back to the early 90s to the mid 90s you'll see a lot of Czech contributors to the Linux kernel so a broad understanding of open source software occurs everywhere in the world India China the Czech Republic also India China and you know other countries in Asia yet to cross that tipping point we don't see them making a lot of upstream contributions they're kind of taking open source and internalizing it and making a value to them and their economies but the tipping point will come and we'll see them contributing to open source in general and that's why I think we're going to continue to see the demand here and that's my speech so save 10 minutes for questions and answers before the audience leaves yeah please yep well for China they publicly stated it was their entry to the World Trade Organization and that part of the criteria for entry that they had to you know address software piracy yeah to the legal legal issue for them just for context just for context what a certain water redacted activities that happen outside of Brisbane we're through in sort of what country will you like an example yeah oh again perspective yeah sure what we found I mentioned China earlier so in for China we found that we can get very good hard skills so HTC have been shipping Linux handsets since troll tech another great Brisbane company well the division of a great Norwegian company recently acquired by Nokia troll tech was based here in Brisbane and they did the QT graphics library which KDE and other projects use we found it was widely very very successful so kind of Korean started with Linux on embedded devices got adopted by HTC and a couple of very large mobile manufacturers in China and with that they had to start getting the two full kernel running on embedded devices so we found that we were able to get a lot of developers in China we who are familiar with small footprints writing device drivers getting things upstream so we do a lot of our hardcore kernel and virtualization testing in China because of that skill set availability India has got a 13 official languages and so as a country there's a lot of people coming through that education system have a lot of understanding of transliteration difficulties with inputs you know rendering display those sort of skills and they're also a long history of contributing to standards such as Unicode so a lot of our standards contributions and development we do out of India and obviously our Indic language localization we do in India the Czech Republic I mentioned earlier since the mid 90s there's been some very famous contributors to the Linux kernel and other open source projects and as a result a lot of the universities are already you know you don't learn Visual Studio C++ at a university in Bruno you learn GCC so it's easy for us to take graduates from that community and get them straight into open source projects they just get it and huge amount of work done in the United States yeah of course any other questions all right thank you