 Yeah, we better find our way. America finding its way. This is Think Tech. I'm Jay Fidel. We have Winston Welch, Stephanie Stull Dalton, and Cynthia Sinclair on the telephone, and Tim is on leave on vacation. Elsewhere engaged. Okay, so that's it for today. Anyway, I want to tell you that although the title of the show is the risk of COVID resurgence, what have we done wrong to deserve this? I'm reserving that till the end of the show, but I'd like to cover two other things with you. One is cloture and filibuster and HR1, and all the things that Biden wants to do but requires legislation. It's not going to thread in our discussions. How can America find its way if it can't adopt legislation? We really have had enough with the Senate being locked up. We have had enough of that. They have an oath to abide by, and they're not doing anything, and they're voting in blocks. The Republicans are voting in blocks more and more, and you think they would have softened on that, but they really not really haven't. Anyway, so the first thing I want to talk about is cloture and filibuster and HR1 and all the other initiatives that Joe Biden wants to run through during this term. And so Winston, let's talk to you first. What about the case for setting aside filibuster, setting aside cloture? Would you do that, or would you instead make it as Joe Biden has suggested talking filibuster only? In other words, if you can talk for 15 hours, you can hold things up for 15 hours, but after that it goes to a vote, and the vote is majority. And PS, let me add that the Constitution doesn't talk about cloture and it doesn't talk about filibuster. It talks about majority vote except in very limited circumstances where a two-thirds is required, like to ratify a treaty, that sort of thing, very limited circumstance. Anyway, so my question Winston is what should we do now about the filibuster and cloture and why should we do that? Well, I think actually before we get to that, I think what would be useful is for you in layperson's term to explain the difference between cloture and filibuster and its ramifications on how the Senate's been operating. And of course they have their own very intricate set of rules, and I saw yesterday it was only one in five Democratic senators was supporting and complete abolition of the filibuster. So I thought that was interesting in and of itself, because I think they feel some danger down the road if they do that or something. I don't know. Let me enter linear. Let me just say that the filibuster, we started out as somebody who wants to talk, usually from the South decades ago. So there's a talk forever to slow things down. You just talk. Mr. Smith goes to Washington. Right. In that that genre, that period of time. And you know, it's not in a constitution. It's one of these strange Senate rules that somehow emerged, you know, in the way the Senate tries to negotiate results. But times have changed and now it's abused. And what happens is it's not a talking filibuster. It's any senator can say, well, I call cloture and it requires 60 votes to get to treat the matter on the merits and vote on it. And therefore nothing will pass unless there are 60 votes, letting it get to a real vote. Constitution doesn't have any of this. It was laid on by our Senate. And frankly, you know, it's it's an insult to the American people how they have found their way to this kind of procedure in the cloakroom. This is not what we got. It is not what the founders wanted to do. So I think a lot of people could use cloture and filibuster. So just to be clear for people, then the the cloture is where we're not even going to talk about this unless we have 60 people that want to talk about it. I'm not sure if they can talk about it at all, or that it stops the vote. But the net effect is it stops the vote. You have to have 60 votes to vote. And maybe you also you can bar discussion. I don't know. But bottom line, though, is that it's been laid on now as a way to get around the fact that the Republicans are in the minority. So if you can have 50 Democratic votes, but unless you get 10 more can't do anything. And the Republicans are in lockstep on all these issues and initiatives and they want to make Biden look bad so that the Democrats lose in the next election in 2022. That's their obvious strategy. That's that's Mitch McConnell strategy. And let me add that, you know, he makes a threat that if you touch my filibuster, there's going to be scorched earth. Well, let me ask you a rhetorical question which I hope you can answer me. He says it's going to be storage scorched earth. We already have scorched earth. Isn't he already doing that? It's a rhetorical. So you we have we already have scorched earth. Mitch McConnell is a master politician. You look at what he did during the entire Obama administration, you know, everything was blocked simply to block. If you look back, I think it was wasn't it Robert Bird that had one of the senators literally they they they called this the sergeant arms and had one of the senators carried feet first into the Senate because it so they could get 51 people to vote on something. And he said that it was a lot of fun. Another one said I think it was Arlen Specter or somebody said it was a Nazi communist, you know, tactic. Which is not worthy. This is not worthy of our country. It's not worthy of our country. And they used it very, very seldom in, you know, the olden days. We're talking, you know, when was Robert Bird around in the 70s, 80s, 90s, something like that. So it wasn't used. Now it's used all the time simply as an obstructionist measure. So the Democrats are worried. The Democrats are worried if they pull it now. And that it will be used against them in 2022 and have control. They will run through all kinds of unholy bills. But you know, the thing is, you've already got this extremely dysfunctional party that has come around and said that they would support the man that just literally sent him off to try and kill them. So you're not dealing with rational players here. And if these bills don't get through. And I understand the reticence of that because you want to think, okay, the other side is a fair player. They want the best for the entire nation. I think at this point, we can't really 100% assume that with the Republicans because we they're in just based on the behavior of how they've been acting in the last while, just opposing to oppose rather than on principle. You know, it's that that 60 vote idea is to have some sort of some sort of support from another side. And ideally, that the party should come to the middle instead of going to the opposites, but they've gone to the opposites now. And now we just have what's in the Constitution. Why can't we have majority rule here? Wasn't that the idea? Yeah, you know, majority well, majority rule can be it's I think it's better if you can have consensus rule. And that's what these Senate rules were designed for, but they're being abused now. So I I'm reluctant to say that I think the the Democrats should push through at least on some items. But like you said, that's, you know, they're threatening scorched earth policy. And they're that can it can it can that can be really damaging in the next four years anyway. But I'm not sure that it would be much more damaging than what they're already planning on doing anyway, without blocking the blocking every republic every democratic edition. How much or little of that do you agree with Stephanie? Well, I mean, I'm just realizing that, you know, prior to 1917, the Senate rules did not include or provide for a way to end to debate. So the Senate's tradition of unlimited debate, you know, then was they couldn't control it. So then they inaugurated the filibuster. And so that rule, the Senate adopted a rule to allow two thirds majority to end a filibuster. And then not that procedure is also known as cloture. Okay. And then in 75 1975, the Senate reduced the number of votes required for cloture or to end a filibuster from two thirds, which is about 67 to three fifths, the 60 that we have now of the 100 member Senate. So I think somebody needs to get back to the Constitution to see where all of this came from. I mean, they they they produced all of this filibuster cloture business because the evidently the Constitution didn't provide for closing out a an ongoing screed of Robert's rules of order says, you know, you can move the question can move the question. Yeah. And I don't know if that's a majority or something else. But you know, there are rules in the parliamentary rules. So they need to revisit these rules and get that parliamentarian who's so knowledgeable and powerful to to to do some explaining and what's your view, you agree with Winston. He's a little what did you say Winston a little cautious about throwing throwing out the filibuster and cloture throw it out. If it's not in the Constitution, especially, I need that needs to check if there's nothing in there to provide for it. Or is it implied by the fact that they never gave rules for ending the debate in the Senate. If it's an implied rule, the usefulness of the one that we've been using has run out. So maybe that needs to be reconstructed implied rules. That's interesting. Okay, let's go to let's go to Sylvia Cynthia Cynthia, you must have thoughts about this. I do. I have I have many thoughts actually about this. And I think the filibuster should go. I think it is in the Constitution that it is going to be a majority rule. And I think it should always be majority rule. I think that the filibuster came into play in order to change that in ways that you know, maybe the initial thoughts for it were good that you know, it's to increase debate and you know, to really get people to work together and all that sort of stuff. But it's obviously not working. And it's obviously not worked for a good long time. So I think that it should be taken out. I think it should be taken out now, because the sooner we get rid of it, the sooner we can get the important bills done like s one to protect voting. That thing that is the most important thing more even so than the COVID relief. And so we've got infrastructure and we've got so many bills coming up that need to get done before 2024 because it's possible that we could lose everything in 2024 and can't get anything else done. So I think it is important to immediately get rid of it, get as much stuff done as you possibly can. And then why I have this question, why can't they get everything done and then put it back? Well, you know, the easy strategy is to get rid of the filibuster, get these initiatives going. And then in 2022 and 2024, fight hard to retain control, even improve control. And by the way, when I say control, I am also thinking that, you know, these races are being manipulated by Russia. We have hard intelligence now, not only the presidential races, but the congressional races are being manipulated, not by China, by Russia, which takes me to the second point. And that is, I'd like to discuss, and that's the anti-Asian racism that has popped up here in the past. Well, it's existed at some level for a long time, but, you know, even from 1850. But, you know, what about now? We see it in violence. We see it around the country. Where is this coming from, Winston? What's going on here? All of a sudden, we have people on rampages killing Asians. And we have people, you know, who stabbed them in the street. This is really third world kind of thing. What happened to us? Well, I don't even know that it needs to happen in the third world. It's when your leaders say, when your leaders are promoting racist, sexist, homophobic, whatever dialogue or thought that it's easy for the inner sociopath and psychopath to be released. And that's the problem. We, all humans, let's face it, all of us are racist, sexist, agist, homophobic, heterophobic, whatever, old to the old to the young. It's just what humans are. We other people, and we spend our whole lives trying to, not other people, trying to accept their differences, trying to celebrate differences, trying to be inclusive. That's what this country's promise is, is that we, we overcome our worst instincts. We appeal to that each person, regardless of external circumstances, can thrive here. And I still think that's a promise of America. We have some ugliness that pops up. We have systemic ugliness that we're really beginning to address for the first time in generations. Again, let's, let's not only up, but also just sexism. Me too, if you look at Cuomo, look at this, that there's some touchstones on here, you know, like we talked yesterday about Mr. Potato Head. We have these issues that have been under the surface. Now they're coming up to the top. And a lot of people are reacting against that. They don't want things to change. And, you know, when you, when we talk about cloture and the filibuster, I think it's, we have to understand that from the, from a, let's say Republican perspective or non-liberal perspective, a non-Biden supporting perspective, that's scary for people because that means that everything on the, however they want to label it, communist, social Nazi agenda is going to be pushed through and they're going to be railroaded over. And what the purpose from my understanding is having 60 people to vote on something was, again, that idea that you have good faith on both parties, where you have people in your party that will cross over and support the other parties position because it's a superior position. It's a superior ideal. You might be a conservative Democrat or a liberal Republican and you could see the merits in the argument on the other side. And therefore you're doing what's best for your constituents and your, and the public at large by supporting a measure on the other side. Now we have this ideological purity that forces everybody to be either in one camp or the other. That's not healthy for the nation. So I don't think there was a problem. It's the camp. Our system needs to go back again to the middle. I don't think it's, I don't know that it's going to happen, but if we went back again to the middle and appealed to the middle, then a lot of this hysteria and stupidity and it will disappear or largely be. I don't know how this camp of racism and bigotry and violence got into a conversation of what the two poles are. You can have poles on any issue, but poles on racism, that's, you know, it's like you're going to have a debate. You're going to moderate a conversation about just how racist you can be. That's like trying to argue with a pathological person. Stephanie, let me go here on this. I mean indeed, so the question is how much of this anti-Asian racism that is now popping up is related to your friend in mind, Donald J. Trump, who criticized them and associated the virus with them and lost no opportunity in making them look bad for his own political purposes and in order to divide the country, how much is related to what he was saying over the past year or longer. I remember this kind of thing came up even when he was running in 2016. He was making these racist comments, but he really took off on it in the time of COVID to lay COVID on the Asians and the Chinese. How much is related to Donald Trump? Well, maybe you're suggesting that everybody's getting their turn, okay? So it was the rapists and the Mexicans that were Mexicans and coming across the border to just a pillage. And then it was the Middle Eastern, okay? Then they're coming over and then so it was their turn to get whacked. So now, and then now we've done the China virus, and so now it's the Asians are getting it. But the point is that the model majority notion that has dominated in education and talking about SES and all that in the country has really been a myth because the big data shows us that of course the Asians and the whites are up there being big achievers on any of these standardized tests. And of course that was a problem for them because that made the Ivy Leagues and all of the selective preferential colleges look like they were doing something beyond just their abilities but also to be proactive, you know, affirmative action kinds of things with them. So there's been a simmering thing going on there. But the other side of it is the model majority that they're usually referred to as has been very damaging because they may be three standard deviations above the mean, like some Caucasian kids are and all kids, some people get up there because they're in doubt so well by birth and their genetic history and their mental powers. But there are also these standard deviations below the mean. So all of these populations are spread across that curve, that normal curve in the same manner. But you know, it does also look to immigration to try and take a look there at who is it that's coming in because that's what makes these waves come and go too. For instance, when just railroad workers, poverty-stricken people from China were coming, that was one thing. But then with Vietnam, we had a bunch of other things happening where we got all these brilliant people in here just like when Cuba first came. Let me just close out on this issue. How much of this is due to Trump? Well, he exacerbated it because, but it was all simmering there. And like I said, it's just their turn. And so I think Trump- Okay, fair enough. I want to go to get, I want to get Cynthia's views on this. Cynthia, what do you think about this expression of anti-Asian racism that's really gotten pretty deadly lately? It's gotten very deadly. And I'm sorry, but I disagree with Stephanie in the sense of it's, it's their turn, because I don't think it should be anybody's turn. And I think that the history of racism in our country goes back to its inception. And then you can take racism another step back from there to the, I mean, it seems that world history has that racism gene somewhere in it. And, and for some reason, some people, it affects and they, they go with it and they fall into it. And some people look at it and, and find it abhorrent. I am one of the people who find it abhorrent because to, to think that it's the hubris that, to think that you're better than anyone else because of the color of your skin is ridiculous. To, to take out your, your racist anger on a, on an old Asian man walking down the street because, and I think that to answer your question about Trump and did he have anything to do with it? Absolutely. I believe and saw racism hiding in the back room of people's world until Trump came along and gave it license to come back out into the light. And then it began to flourish. So unless people that find it abhorrent, stand up and speak out against it, it will continue. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's under, it's under the story. And like, like Stephanie says, you know, it's a, it's a political tool. You need a scapegoat and any good dictator needs a scapegoat. We saw that in Europe. And so I think what's, what Stephanie was saying when she was talking about turn, she's talking about all the usual suspects who are not in, who are not the, the, the, the white supremacy cap. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's good people on both sides and Pocahontas. And, you know, let's, let's go to that exact thing. So Trump asked a couple of days ago about vaccines. Wait, we got, we only have a few minutes left. Trump was asked a few days ago about vaccines, you know, and I guess the public and party put pressure on him to say, take the vaccine. And he said something like what he said in Charlottesville. He said, you know, take the vaccine. And I know that the people who don't want to take the vaccine, they're good people too. And so it was really a mixed bag kind of suggestion to the public and useless. But my question, the third area I want to talk about with you guys, if we have enough time is the whole thing about the vaccines. We're not doing that well. Since you pointed out to me, we spoke earlier that 17 states, we have dramatic surges now in COVID or variants, whatever it may be, we're not doing very well. And, you know, I mean, one argument about that is that we're not taking the vaccines enough. There are people who oppose the vaccines. There are people who still oppose wearing masks. Well, you know, Republican, it's a political statement or distancing. And as a result, it's going to catch up with us. It is catching up with us. So where are we on that? We're still lost in this Netherlands of Trump trying to pull away from science. And I guess he does have an influence, a kind of delayed reaction, you know, a momentum kind of influence. What do you think is happening here? Winston? Okay, sorry. You know, there's always been a deep, deep anti-intellectual strain in the United States. And it's just been given power and voice over the last four years, especially. And while it, you know, it's been so nice not to hear from Donald Trump, honestly, he's just, it's a gift he's given to America. But we still, there's a lot of ugly, stupid voices out there that are popping up now like a hydra. And unfortunately, we do have these things, but it's, you know, we have to appeal to our higher, better nature all the time, every generation. Why is it happening now? What's happening right now is, yes, but he's not, he's also not on Twitter. And so that's, that's a big help. Our, you know, there's a lot of misinformation, disinformation, people who are fatigued and just don't care anymore. And when you have mass numbers of governors, peoples, just like the Russians are involved in this. Are the Russians suing the disinformation now? They try to get, we know that they, we know that they are. And if they weren't, then they're counter disinformation agencies aren't doing their job. So we have to factor all of that in. But you know, the reality is personal responsibility, trying to educate yourself. The same thing we've been saying for a whole year, doing the best you can, getting your shots. If you're afraid of the vaccines, find out more information about them and not just from the anti-vaccine. Okay. We've been saying that for a year too, but you know, what we have here is, is an increasing surge. Stephanie, why are we having this surge? It's, it's quite remarkable because if you draw a straight line predicting what's going to happen, it's a very sad story going forward. We thought we'd reopen. We thought we'd be through the end of the tunnel, but we're not. Well, it's horrifying, but it's human. There are a couple of human factors here that we have to, we have to recognize. I mean, the, the history studyers, the anthropologists, are really concerned about the Neanderthals because they're, they went out, right? Well, I wonder why they went out? How many of us was going around? And they were different. Okay. So the guys that are different are a problem usually. So for what, what are we? 20,000 years on this planet and we've done nothing, but be afraid of difference. Okay. So now the human race is reaching out to be diverse and be appreciative of all our fellow people. And this is the hardest thing we've ever done. This, this, this makes going to the moon nothing. Okay. I mean, or Mars, go to Mars, no problem. It doesn't shed a negative light on a form of government. You know, what we have here is a situation where if the government stepped in, as it did in China and said, you will wear a mask, you will do social distancing, you know, that we be through this already, you will take a vaccine or else we'll be through this, but the government in the United States doesn't do that. And so we talked about, you know, that's the will, the will, the free will, the freedom and then the difference issue. And then people cooperating, all of these things have to be learned and imposed upon people because the human person alone in the hunter-gatherer stage. So we need to reform our, we need to reform our government so we can do it like China does it? No. No, we don't. I hear Cynthia shouting out her democratic principles. All of those conversations did that, including the Austrian Empire. The Austrian Empire was made up, was the most diverse concoction ever, and that they were able to hold that together just like, then just like Yugoslavia's in that, in that other one, more recent history, those were all diverse people and they were trying to hold it together, and they did. But then then it ended because people couldn't resolve those tensions. And you're right, Jay, I think, yes, the government has to have a department of how to do different. I have this thing about, you know, I have a constitutional right not to wear a mask or distance or not to take a vaccine, even though it kills my neighbors. This is a strange thing. It really doesn't make sense to me. What about you, Cynthia? What do you think about this? I think it doesn't make sense to me either. Fauci has said that we are in a race between the vaccines and the variants. And you know, though, Biden has reached his goal of 100 million vaccines delivered, so we have 115,730 vaccines delivered. But we are still having 1,000 people a day that die. I mean, granted it's getting down, but it's not 1,000 people are still dying. In the beginning when we reached that level of 1,000 people a day dying, we were horrified. And now we're relieved because 1,000 people are a day instead of 4,000. I want us to still be outraged about the 1,000 people a day that are dying. And maybe that complacency, once it's gone, can help to make these other people wake up and start wearing masks. And you know, you mentioned a little bit ago about Russia being involved. British intelligence put out an official report saying that they had found evidence of a whole Russian disinformation campaign weaponizing health information to further divide people. So yes, he's in there. And Russia is definitely involved in some of this. I find it remarkable that the Republicans are attacking Fauci now. And you know, face on, criticizing him personally, making outrageous statements about him, even though he's obviously the leading voice for science. Okay, we're at the point now, this is the free for all time, the good and wealth there, if you don't mind. What would you like to leave with our listeners today? Oh, I want to leave people with something positive and uplifting. It may not be there, but you know, we're not going to be China. And we're not going to force this, I mean, on people. But what will happen is, I think social pressure eventually will step in. Think of it like smoking or drunk driving. You know, some people, it doesn't matter how much you have different laws. At some point, you know, people, a lot more people used to get killed in drunk driving accidents. And we've reduced that smoking probably is a better example. You're a pariah if you smoke these days, right? Your apartment complex is probably banded. If you may smoke, if your windows are closed, you can't smoke on the beach, you can't smoke in the parks, you can't smoke when you're walking on the street, you certainly can't smoke in your office unless you are the only owner and your building may prohibit it then. So it may be that that's how it comes with vaccines as well as we just say, you might want to not be vaccinated, but all the people around you, secondhand smoke, people that might get infected because you didn't get vaccinated are being impacted by this. Therefore, we're quarantining you and therefore you can smoke in your car and you can be in your car, you just can't go into Costco and you can't smoke in Costco and you can't go into Costco unless you have your vaccine. And it'll be something like that, some combination of corporate and government. I hope so and hope it's sooner than later because every day that we let this happen is a greater probability of variants. That's right. And we don't necessarily have a way of dealing with variants. Stephanie, what's your last words here? Well, I think that the Steep Out rules are really a wonderful analogy and because that is something that takes a little trouble, really disrupted cultural ins and outs of cars. And there was a lot of resistance to that. But I think that no matter, and we've done a wonderful job of that, and that was a government effort. And there again, how is the government going to step in to support this and push it and get out of what Trump is doing to us? And what Russia is trying to do with us is make us stupid and confused. But I think that there will always be a percentage that will not cooperate and won't do it. And they'll have their belief systems or their value systems or whatever is keeping them from doing that. Or maybe it's just well for us in human nature. So there's some portion of that. But we're cruising here on getting these vaccines out. And so, I mean, they're going to get it into the jungle and back in the mountains and everything. It's just how much can you do? And I really thought it was wonderful they talked about getting everybody to get in there and give shots. Let's go. Dennis and veterinarians and people that are retired from the medical profession but can still walk and talk and punch a needle in someone's arm. Let's go with that. Doctors without borders. There's not a minute to waste. It really isn't. Because every case that's left unresolved, every person who's not vaccinated is a potential mutation to a variant. And that's been made clear now. Okay, well, Cynthia, go ahead, finish. Open up, place the stone. 24-7. Let's go. Cynthia, your thoughts here, your last words. Can I just say why is the safest state in the nation? We're the safest state in the nation. And we have the seventh highest number of vaccinated people. There's only a couple of the seven states ahead of us. So we got the lowest case rate and the lowest fatality rate in the country. That's Hawaii name. Okay, Cynthia, do you agree with those numbers? Well, not exactly because the ones that I saw earlier today said that Hawaii was one of the states that was up 50% in a week. Just in this last week though, right? So we've got 17 states that in the last week have gone up by at least 50%. And we're one of those states. That's this. These are the numbers of shots given. So it's a different. Oh, in regards to shots given, yes, yes. Not just cases. Well, I tell you though, what I'd like to do is finish with a quote that I have. A couple of quotes, a short one from Senator Raphael Warnock in his first senatorial speech on the floor. It was powerful. You haven't seen it. I recommend everyone go and Google it and watch it because it's really good. In my mind, the best one I've ever heard. And I've heard other people say that too. So it's up there at the top of the best of all time. He says democracy is a political enactment of a spiritual idea. I love that. It's such a beautiful way to describe it in such a short sentence with such a broad meaning. And then the next one is that a vote is a kind of prayer about the world. Those things just really struck me when I was listening to him. And he is the lead sponsor for Bill S1 about voting rights. Before we go, I did send all you guys the video that Jeff Daniels made in a TV serial a few years ago. And it was very interesting in where he said to a bunch of kids, he said, don't tell me this is the best country on the planet. It's not. It was very powerful stuff. Do you have any comment about that, Cynthia? I do. It was really powerful. The little girl that's asking the question says, what makes America the greatest country in the world? And he can't answer it. And then he goes the next step and says, the reason I can't answer this is because we aren't the greatest country in the world anymore. We used to be, but we're not anymore. And I think everyone thought that was very astute. And I think everyone should watch that clip from Jeff Daniels. Let me go around and ask Stephanie her reaction. Did you look at the clip, Stephanie? Sorry, I didn't see it yet. I had to do the stock market. How about you, Winston? Did you look at the clip? Yeah, I did. And I'd seen it before. And obviously, that was a movie. And I felt sorry for the girl. But those simplistic questions, the types of questions and jingoistic stuff that we've been hearing. And it's like the make America great again. America is a great country. America is a great country because of its ideals and its promise. And I am an American exceptionalist, as you know, to some degree. I'm not saying we are number one in everything because we're not. We're not just like that. That little clip says whether it's infant mortality or happiness index or anything. But this is the nation that brings it all the promise of all of it together and looks at itself and wants to improve and invites the whole world in for the best and the brightest. I mean, that's our ideals anyway, right? So time to step back up, take the hard look, go within and try and recover our ideals. We have to do this every single generation, every age. I still believe in the good and great promise of America. Okay, okay. And that's where we're going to leave it, Winston. Thank you so much, Winston Welch, Stephanie Dalton, Cynthia Sinclair. Thank you for another great show. Aloha, but see you next week.