 All right, let's get started with our second talk and we're gonna learn about some mistakes that people make with their trees and Here to tell us the best way to care for our trees is Dr. Jules Lesnick Jules been the extension forester at NDSU since 2002 He has responsibilities throughout the state and he works on several extension and research projects including a Survey of Arboretum in North Dakota He works on ecological research involving tree ring analysis and he's doing a study involving honeybee use of shelter belts Jules located on the NDSU campus in the School of Natural Resource Sciences Jules, welcome to the forums. Hey, thank you, Tom Common mistakes that people make with their trees. Okay. Let's be clear. We all make mistakes, but let's talk about trees tonight and The first thing I want to say is location location location Where do you plant the trees? Well Make sure that if you're planting near the house, you know and follow That recommendation on how wide these trees are going to get. Okay. This is in South Fargo This is a common mistake. Have I made that mistake? No, I have never made that mistake myself. Oh Maybe Don't plant big trees under power lines. That can be a problem later on Excuse me. My brother the engineer. He did this at his place He put his back to one power pole and lined up on the next one and walk towards it that's where he planted his trees and they were in a nice straight line and Well, 10-12 years later. He realized his mistake Now this one is a Siberian elm that seeded itself in this is a place I rented when I first came to Fargo years ago Nobody planted this nature planted it and I dug it out and it was Three feet deep when I stopped when I stopped digging it was still pretty big there that Root those amazing. I dug it out. It was cracking the block the foundation I highlighted and with white paint a bunch of the larger roots and Two years later. Yeah, it was growing back. So There you go. It was kind of crazy Two years after that, okay, it's growing up and hitting the the roof again So it was just a bad thing. So obviously we're not planting trees that close But keep an eye out for that for trees that plant themselves Location location location. This isn't a mistake people made. I Have to say first of all this presentation was based on another one that I gave and one of the things I noted in that other Presentation was construction damage This is a green ash tree. They're redoing the street down from where I used to live and I found this very interesting They thought you all might find this interesting over there on the lower right you see a Root and you see a valve we see a bone to be see a valve for the water main and What they had to do is they had to cut some roots because they were that close to the water main And it was actually starting to block access. Sorry to that valve That would allow water drinking water or house water to to get to the houses. It was very interesting But you might like to see that Okay, location it includes planting depth. This is a common problem people planting trees too deep Very common in our area. If you look at a tree and a pot Sometimes that tree has been has had extra soil added over the root system over time for a variety of reasons and Often with potted trees, you know, we pull them out and we look at it and say, oh, that's the depth We want to plant it at right? Well, you start digging it out and You take the root the soil off the top and you come down till you find where that first flare root comes out And in this case, geez that was probably five six inches of extra soil on top that had to be removed and Then that identifies the level that that tree should be planted at so make sure you dig down those potted trees and find that flare and make sure that flare is that soil is that ground line These are some Norway maple trees were planted on the NDSU campus. I Think in the late 1990s mid to late 1990s and 2008 I got out there with a colleague of mine Alan Lee from the Fargo forestry department We got out there with an air spade, which is basically a big compressor with a pipe or a hose and a pipe and we blew the soil out and On this tree you could see it was planted way too deep the root collar Is down there on the lower left and then that tree was grafted so it was a graft union and the planting depth was even Deeper than that. That is the tree was planted too deep, you know, it should have been planted a lot higher and One of the things we noticed in this deeply planted tree is there was a root that was starting to girdle the stem that is the stem was growing up and the road was growing right against it and that Root was Compromising the structure of that tree So it had to it had to go we had to take that root out and the tree is doing fine It recovered just fine and is still growing there So if we can prevent this before we plant by removing Sorry by removing those stem girdling roots Look at the root ball. Look at this this root ball before you plant Try to find those potentially stem girdling girdling roots and get rid of them another thing about death is Sometimes trees are planted too deep or sorry Sometimes trees have fill soil added to the top of the roots. So this is spruce tree. Obviously, it's dead or almost dead And this was on a farmstead and I got a call Well, actually as my boss, he says hey, can you go out and look at these trees at my daughter's farmstead and Turns out I was going there about a week later going by there. I said sure I saw this dead tree. Whoops wrong way and And you said it's spreading whatever's killing spreading from one tree to the next down the line And it wasn't spreading what happened was they had built this new house. They added a bunch of fill soil To raise the grade. So it's just outside the red river valley So kind of flat there and they wanted to raise the grade To avoid any flooding issues. Well in adding that fill soil They basically killed that tree you look further away from the house where there was no fill soil added those trees were doing fine And come back to it and it just looked like a telephone pole going right into the ground So planting is one thing It's a common problem Planting or sorry choking trees. This is a huge problem in so many ways. There's many ways to choke a tree Okay West acres mall in fargo west fargo. Well, I guess it's kind of on the border There's a picnic table on the south side and that picnic table They don't want the picnic table to be stolen or moved So it's chained to the tree and the tree is not going to move But the tree is going to grow That's going to grow around that chain Over the chain and the cable that are there and that tree the crown is just in really poor shape Very thin and dying back actually I should go back there and look and see if that tree is still alive This was about three or four years ago that I took that photo How about these trees these blue spruce trees in fargo? This is in july of 2008 and at that arrow If you look below the arrow then above the arrow, there's a distinct difference I I asked my students to just try what they see And they they say there's a color difference. I say, yeah, okay. What is it? I'll below the arrow Give or take it looks kind of a darker green Darker blue green above the arrow. It's more of a yellow green. I say, what about What about thickness or fullness of that crown? Of that crown they say, yeah below that it's nice and thick and full Above that. It's kind of thin and scraggly. I said, yes Let's go look. Let's go look at the stem. Oh, here it is a little bit from a little bit different angle Same tree So we go up and we look at the stem This is what I found is that the tree was being choked off because the strap Was never removed. Okay, they put a strap around each of those trees when the trees were planted They used some posts To make sure the trees didn't tip over but they never removed them And the tree kept growing but the strap didn't and it's choked in the tree And by the time I went back to this tree a year later, it was already gone I had hoped to get a sample of this to keep and using my teaching But it was already removed similarly The burlap that sometimes comes with the b&b bald and burlap trees should be removed now In this case, it's Partially choking the oak tree partially not You would think I would think oh burlap. It's natural fiber. It's just gonna break down decay, right? Well Not as quick as you might think a lot of burlap Can cause problems. So remove the burlap on b&b trees and get rid of it Allow the trees root systems to grow naturally Normally Uh, this was an interesting one this tree just up and died all of a sudden like that This was a green ash tree in Wapiton, North Dakota years ago We're worried about emerald ash borer. We still are So I went out and I looked at it and we did not find emerald ash borer Uh, but I started digging down seeing what I could find in the root system And what I found at ground line and below Is that uh, I found the basket The wire basket that had been retained on the tree is put the tree in the ground basket and all the twine was still there from the original basket So I asked the folks there. This was at I believe at the zoo actually in Wapiton I asked them. Hey, uh, can we remove this? Can I dig this out or if you guys dig it out? Can you keep it for me? So they did And this is what I ended up with I ended up with this massive stump. It was a big tree And uh, the basket was still there Uh, unfortunately The twine was all removed with that process of cleaning it out and digging it up So there were some things we couldn't quite see One thing we did see was the stem girdling root cutting across the stem I don't know that that killed it, uh, but or killed the whole tree But it certainly was causing problems and would have killed it eventually Or at least caused enough structural damage so that the tree likely would have likely would have blown over Uh, it was very interesting this root system because some roots did graft self-graph to each other Uh, but there are also some areas where the roots were growing around Uh, these wires that uh, they weren't growing great They're doing okay, but not great And there's going to be some research coming out out of florida in the next few years That's really looking at this issue a lot more closely. So i'm very excited Uh, to be seeing that in a few years time Okay, just another Another view of that I think this might have been a box elder tree stanley north dakota A lot of people put chains around trees Uh to hold those splitting stems together That's really not a good idea if stems are splitting Uh, if they're small enough you could put a bolt across there But generally I recommend getting rid of one of the stems or perhaps the whole tree And do that when the tree is young try to avoid that Uh box elder and fargo this one is One of the best worst examples. Um, yeah a lot of problems with this tree Um besides it being hollow. Yeah, it's got the strap around it holding parts of it together So anyway choking trees off is never a good thing Chains around trees bad idea, you know short term. Yeah, it might be holding those two together Uh, but in the long run, it's either going to choke the trees or You know, maybe in a windstorm or heavy snowstorm that chain might snap This was an interesting tree in mandan You can see two tone right green darker green on the left later green on the Upper right more of a yellowish green and I climbed up there Find the tree. Let's see what's happening. Yeah on that right hand stem This is what was happening uh nice piece of uh poly rope And a lot of sprouts were coming up below that And above that, uh, it was dying Green ash underland north dakota in may of 2004 We took that rope off. I took that rope off and there was some pruning that Yeah, could have been done a lot better I was curious what was going to happen. I really didn't expect this tree to survive But I went back after three growing seasons in late 2006 I saw this tree was uh recovering That really surprised me. Yeah, there was this bulge in the middle, but it seemed to be getting better And another three years later after six growing seasons after I pulled that rope off It was recovering really well It's amazing I I went back there. I don't know a year or two ago and I couldn't find this tree So I don't know if it's been removed for some other reason Or what was going on, you know, maybe there was some construction, but uh, at least after six growing seasons It was coming back. So that was great. Good to see that Okay, but it's not just trees in the yard There's trees and shelter belts that we sometimes use to this weed barrier fabric. We barrier fabric is great Okay, it has helped uh with establishment of a lot of trees And shrubs that is the survival rate has gone up Substantially since we started using these back in the 90s They're really great for getting more moisture, uh to the trees However They don't break down. We were told by the manufacturers. Oh, this this fabric will break down Once it gets hit by sunlight and uh, you won't have to worry about it control weeds for a few years While the tree gets established then you're done with it Unfortunately, it didn't quite work out that way. Uh, yeah, there are some fabrics that do better than others But a lot of it hasn't worked that way and Sometimes soil blows in sometimes leaves fall on the fabric And eventually the fabric gets covered and we just forget about it And this was a great example from uh, susan muskie down in limore county limore county scd Yeah, this pine tree Started pulling the soil back to get to the fabric and she started pulling the fabric back And it was girdling the tree and I think she got this fabric off in time But if you've got fabric Around your shelter belt trees and shrubs go check it out. Make sure those holes are big enough Make sure the trees aren't growing into the fabric The fabric will kill the tree if it's not taken care of Okay, so those are three of the big ones location The planting depth and choking a tree One of the other things we see every year Is loving your tree to death Um People people say to me. Oh, you must have the nicest trees in your yard And you take care of them and I can say well, I got trees in my yard. Um, I'm hard on them I make sure that those trees are tough I don't baby them So loving your tree to death Often this means too much water too much fertilizer. Uh, if you're looking at growing turf for a lawn Um, and you want turf like you have on a golf course Great, uh, but you know what that might cause problems with your trees. Don't be surprised if it does Okay watering Needs how often do people water their lawns? For if you have a irrigation system, how often do you water your lawn? And for some people Ah, it's once a week. Some people it's every Other day Some people it's every day and other people Multiple times a day Let me tell you trees do not need water that often what they need is they need uh Once a week once every two weeks give or take They need a good soaking. Okay, they need the soil to be moist But not soaking wet Soak it soak it but then let it be Hey, they need this soil to be moist um This dying tree and I think this was mandan as well um I wasn't quite sure what was killed in this tree, uh, but I think it was too much love The turf was just perfect. So there could have been an issue with herbicides That could have been watered far too much. It certainly had plenty of nitrogen in the soil, but it was perfect Uh, generally our watering recommendations depends on the amount of rainfall you've had but with new trees Newly planted trees. I soak them right at planting as best I can, you know, a couple buckets of water get that soil really wet Let the soil sink in and remove any air pockets And then I'll go back Once a week at least for that first week or sorry for that first month And maybe add another bucket or two of water and get it that thorough soaking and then I'll wait every other week Before watering them Okay, I want the tree to extend its roots out and forage for water and create new roots further out Explore a larger soil volume Um, establish trees if we haven't had any rain for about two weeks Then I'll uh recommend watering Now this is in a long situation. Obviously with the drought we've had the last couple years Right now anything they can get is good Is helpful Generally, I don't recommend watering during august or people Ask me about that don't water during august. That's the driest time of the year and in a normal year Yeah, I'd say don't water during august okay hardening Why don't uh, why don't I recommend watering in august because trees have to harden themselves up for winter And hardening starts in late summer the process the trees go through Uh to harden up, you know, you look for those environmental cues Everybody says oh, it's shorter days and cooler temperatures And actually that's that is part of it, of course Uh, but it actually starts with drought stress in late summer that response to drought stress is related To this response they use to harden up for winter and it's actually hardening sorry Drought stress kick starts the hardening process So I recommend don't water Uh in mid august until about mid september And I have no idea why I have this slide in here But there are some pretty maple trees that used to be in valley city before there was some construction damage For construction remove them. Okay, uh begin in mid september. Sorry about that Uh and go until freeze up watering trees Actually after that That's the trees have already started to harden especially the evergreens. This will help them Remain hydrated going into winter and will help to minimize winter injury Okay When trees don't harden up for winter sometimes they retain their leaves all winter that tree didn't quite harden up and uh It had some dieback in the following year. It didn't go through that fall hardening It didn't lose all its leaves held on to its leaves and the had tip dieback So very common. Um Ponderosa pine also had some winter injury That could have been hardened better Okay, the other thing is fertilizer um You know fertilizer Again, generally trees don't need fertilizer in our area. Will it help them grow faster? Certainly Uh, but really moisture is the the biggest limiting factor So if you're fertilizing your your turf your lawn the trees are getting more than enough nutrients You don't need to add extra. Uh, if you are looking to add Uh fertilizers for the trees needs specifically There's a an organization called the international society of arbor culture isa They they recommend up to six pounds of nitrogen per thousand square feet Of soil surface if it's a slow release fertilizer That's a lot of nitrogen. All right. That's a lot of nitrogen and That's really a broad recommendation That they make through all kinds of soil types all kinds of tree species and I just I think it's way too much Um, my recommendation is no more than about one to three pounds of nitrogen per thousand square feet of soil surface Uh per year, but also the timing again not from early july until about mid september and again, this is part of that uh, hardening process If trees get too much fertilizer, they're going to be growing and growing and growing and they are not going to want to slow down for winter and uh, that causes problems and there could be some winter dieback and um And that being said I did a little over 20 minutes Tom Common mistakes people make with their trees. I could keep talking on a variety of things But this is where I plan to cut it off a little after a little over 20 minutes Joel, let me ask you about this. I have a question about arborviety And they want to do some trimming. How do you how can you how severely can you trim and arborviety without harming it? And when's a good time to do the trimming? In terms of trimming, you know pruning right now is a great time to prune um You say I hear trimming I I don't recommend shearing like a like a hedge I'd say be careful of that or cautious with that because that can cause some problems later on in terms of The amount of foliage where the foliage is Uh, the rough rule of thumb is no more than a quarter Of the branch is no more than a quarter of the crown or the leaves in any one year, especially with a small tree And as the trees get bigger That percentage keeps going down So no more than a quarter of it. And yeah, now is a great time to do it. Take care of that Make sure you prune properly Okay, I'm gonna keep it moving here. How about what what do you feel about rubber mats used? Yeah, like to mulch trees um That works Uh, personally, I that aesthetically I don't like them. I know some people do And that's fine, but they they work they work. It's it's a mulch. It's a It's a synthetic mulch, but it does help to control Uh competition and it does Uh cool the soil down So they work just remember to Remove them as the trees get bigger Okay, this person has a bunch of boxed elder trees in a hundred year old shelter belt It wasn't well maintained So now is it better they want to replant some maples in it? Is it better to clear cut everything dead and start over? Or do you just take it out in phases? I'd say whatever works best for you um If you can if you can do it all at once That is if you can do an individual row All at once great do it If you can do two or three rows at once great do it, uh, but you don't just be prepared for that You know that loss of shelter for a few years the more you take out What kind of fertilizer should you use on a spruce tree? Joe? What kind of luxury recommend? I don't recommend any fertilizer Um, I there's enough soil. There's enough nutrients in our soil usually Unless the tree is showing a nutrient deficiency such as iron chlorosis that we Often see in some maples and some birches Yeah, some other species too There's enough nutrients there Okay, and that's includes in planting time too Yeah, should you okay good? Um, okay, joe. Here's uh, this person has a mature weeping birch That the power company Topped now it looks wonky Will it fill in over time? Wonky, um Yeah, that's uh If it's been topped, um, well, I assume it's not gonna Well, I could grow straight up again, but uh Boy, that's that's tough Yeah, I don't know that it's gonna fill back in like you want it to Um, I'm just I can't picture it Especially if it's been topped and if it's near power line So that's the location Elements, you know don't plant right below a power line, huh? Yeah, or even near there There is a certain distance that the power line, uh, the power company can clear Uh on either side of the line. I'm not sure if it's it it used to be 5, uh 10 or 12 feet. I think it's been Expanded beyond that There were there rules of a lot of that So what do you do if you have deer that munched on an arborvite? That's a big problem or you know Arborvite is one of their favorite winter foods if they can get it or if they're hungry They'll they'll go to that arborvite. Uh, it's one of their primary foods If it's uh, it really depends how much of the crown has been yet, I mean if the if the You know, let's say a deer can go up to about five feet and that's about right If the tree is six foot tall and they've cleared five of it that tree is going to be really stressed and might not come back if it's 810 12 feet It has a much better chance And what can you do not a whole lot? Uh, you know protect them in the future Some of those bottom branches might come back or might there might be enough foliage there to support those bottom branches But there might not uh, you may have to just prune those bottom branches off Okay, how about this person? There's a new building a new community center and there's some established trees there And they have to put fill in that area Is there a way to uh, like, um feel all the way around except for near the trunk Uh, generally speaking, no, I mean the roots of that tree go out three four five times the height of the tree There are a few tree species that can take some fill soil a few inches Cottonwoods are actually known to be able to take fill soil the ones that are adapted to flooding And and deposition of sediment They can usually take a bit of fill soil, but something like a spruce tree or a lilac They can't handle it at all Okay, how'd you draw this person? Uh remove some fabric around their tree and now there's exposed roots Should you cover up those bare roots or leave them alone? Uh, generally I'd say leave them alone. Uh, they'll be they should be fine Uh, hopefully they hopefully you won't have an issue with uh hitting them with a mower But yeah, they should be fine When you open up that fabric that weed fabric how far back do you how far away do you open it to just can you just Take it all out or just open a foot of it or As far as you are comfortable with up to taking it all out If you don't if you take it out only this much on either side We'll get ready to take it out some more and in three or four years Um, there are some there is some machinery available. It's been developed in South Dakota That can assist with pulling fabric off It's it's an amazing attachment to a skid steer and basically you you get the You get it on a drum on the front of the skid steer and it just rolls it up Um, it's pretty amazing pretty heavy duty as well though This person has a clump birch with three trunks One of the trunks is way off to the side. Can they tie that trunk to the others to get it to grow more upright? Um You could I don't know that I'd recommend that though Uh, because again, that's that choking potential choking issue a strap would be better on that I Moving a stem is really hard to do unless you're talking the very tip of the tree Um, or side branch that become the leader on like a spruce tree Okay Very tough to do Look this person has a young two foot spruce that has severe winter burn What do you think is there hopes? How can they how can they determine if the tree is going to make it? Uh, basically just wait Let's see. This is the end of march. Wait about six more weeks. You'll find out um Yeah, you can't You can't tell for sure right now You can tell if it's alive or dead by just scratching a little bit of the bark And seeing if it's green or not if it's not green. It's dead if it's green. It's probably alive But will it recover will it have enough reserves to recover? Uh, that's a million dollar question and are the buds still alive if the buds are dead Well, then that's not going to recover To all this person had a trees had a bunch of trees planted And the person who planted left the baskets on should they dig up the trees and remove the baskets? Uh, if you can as best you can you know if the if If digging up those baskets and or digging up the trees and removing the baskets If it's going to cause extra additional damage to the tree Well, then no, um, but if you can reach down and get rid of Whatever you can without cow without causing extra harm to the tree, then yeah, uh, as best you can go for it Okay, joe so like when you talk about You're tough on your trees and you don't want to water them in august But what about uh, you have to worry about the tree starting to grow again in fall Later when you start watering again Nope, nope. They have already Committed to shutting down. Yes, they'll take the water. Yes, they'll be hydrated. But uh, no, they've committed to dormancy How about now like especially out here in the west Is it okay to water a tree now? Well, it's because the soil is droughty Or shrubs it wouldn't hurt although no guarantee it's going to help Um, but it certainly wouldn't hurt right now Okay, that's that's all I can say because you know if you got rain right now It certainly wouldn't hurt the trees and shrubs Um So yeah, go ahead and water if you want we love it if no rain in the forecast Yeah, how about uh, this person has a mountain ash tree that it's losing its bark on the bottom What what's that about? Sounds like one more damage I should be honest. That's what if we say the bottom Um, that's what it sounds like Yeah, I don't know the metal mice. Maybe they love they love those kind of fruit trees Sure Yep I thought you planted trees so the graft is underground Is that true? myth That's an old uh old school Uh mistake you know people That's what that's what we thought that's you know, some of us were taught when we were younger No, that root that root flare should be at the soil surface Right, I mean in fruit trees we'd never plant the graft underground Okay, uh, what else we got here for you This guy got an apple tree that's retaining its leaves What what did we give it too much water in august? Um, it could it could have been going into winter with too much Um, growing too much going into fall without getting dormant enough However, my own apple tree was holding on to a lot of its leaves this year and you know, we had a drought So, um, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I wish you the best My own apple trees have that problem, but We'll find out Okay, Joe this person has a huge birch tree And a large limb fell off And it caused several feet of the bark to peel as the limb fell and now it's it's been oozing heavily the last two springs Is that a slowed sad death ahead for that tree? Not necessarily. Okay oozing in the spring Trees lose sap or the sap moves within the tree You know, you cut right now is the time to tap sugar maple trees for maple syrup Or if you pruned a maple tree right now, you know over the next two three four weeks You're going to see a lot of sap coming out of it. Uh, birch trees are very similar Okay, it really depends on how much of that circumference and do this how much of that circumference was damaged When the the bark pulled out Okay, if it was A quarter of the circumference or less. Okay, I can't do this with the hand signals anymore What's your conference? Um, if it was a quarter of the circumference or less The tree should recover if it was Now a quarter to a half It's it's a bit of a coin toss Um, if it was more than half of the circumference the way around the tree Then it's unlikely the tree is going to recover Okay, joe. We're gonna have really quick answers here. You got a million questions Um, keep it short and very very short and sweet How about this person's got river rock mulcher on the trees? Should they take away the rock and plant grass there instead? That's their call. I'm not personally. I'm not a fan of rock mulch. It does get a pretty hot Um, and quite frankly it gets under my lawnmower so But your call, uh rock mulch will also keep the lawnmower away from the tree Whereas grass right up to that stem can cause problems your call Or how about just a shredded bark instead? I like bark Just like Todd west He's a bark of file too Okay, here's aspen tree 30 feet from the house Is that planted too close? I would say no really aspen The aspen trees do send up it can send up a lot of suckers But you know that if it's not suckering then And no the roots are going to be up against the house, whether you're 30 feet or 60 feet from the house Hey, how about iron chlorosis in a birch? What should we do about it? There's a bunch of different treatments. Uh, we have a publication on this and issue extension publication And i'll say that every treatment works some of the time none of the treatments work all the time There's a bunch of different options there if you could to try And I wish you the best some of the river birches are just they just can't handle our high pH Okay, Joe, we're going to make this last one. How about what's the earliest time of the year to transplant a tree? And get a guideline for the latest time of the year earliest Soon as the frost is out of the ground you can plant I'd say go for it. You know have fun. That's it's wonderful late depends where you are in the state sometime between the end of september end of october Depending where you are in the state You you can help trees or trees have a better shot at growing