 Awesome. Okay, let's see. Everybody hear me okay? All right, so if you're willing by show of hands, how many people are dealing with an autoimmune disease or think they might have one? Okay, like a decent number. And how many people know someone friends or family who's dealing with autoimmune disease? Yeah, basically. Everyone, well, you've come to the right talk then, because we're going to talk about autoimmunity today. It's definitely something we see increasing as societies westernized. And we're seeing a lot more autoimmunity both in adults and heartbreakingly in children as well. Now, one of the major issues that we see at my clinic when people come in is a lot of confusion, a lot of overwhelm. People aren't really sure what they should be doing. You know, the internet is fantastic, provides a lot of great information. I know a lot of people here contribute to a lot of that great information that's out there. But along with a lot of that great information is a lot of bad information. And people come to us asking questions like, you know, well, should I take three and a half grams of glutamine or is four grams of glutamine really going to be the thing that does it for me? Or do I need to be Mediterranean keto as opposed to, you know, some other version of something and just very confused? They're very stuck down on the tactical level of specifically what they need to do without having a strategic level of understanding why they're doing the things that they're doing. And that's what I want to provide today. We're going to talk about an ancestral perspective to understanding and treating autoimmunity. Sound all right? Yep. Awesome. So let's get going. Okay, so it is a bit of a war zone out there. We have bacteria, fungus, and parasites who very much want us to feed them. And if we don't, they're very happy to feed on us. We also have viruses that would very much like to hijack us and use us for their own ends. So we very much have our own little green army men running around all over us whose job is to protect us from those things. We know evolution has worked long and hard in this arms race to create an immune system that can both defend us while not going overboard and causing issues for us. So if you're like me, this just brought you a flashback to your childhood and teenage years. But it is all about evolution. And we see immune systems developing even in bacteria, single-celled organisms. So has anybody here heard of CRISPR before? Right. So CRISPR, awesome and terrifying technology that's promising to revolutionize genetic editing and take GMOs to an entirely new level, whether you believe that's a good or a bad thing. But CRISPR actually came from bacterial immune systems. So bacteria primarily worry about viruses as their main enemy. When a virus invades a bacteria, the bacteria will deploy these enzymes to help destroy that virus and long story short, that is CRISPR. We found it and now are using it for our own ends. We know that sponges, the simplest form of animal life, which is essentially just a colony of single-celled organisms, have their own immune system. If you cut off a piece of a living sponge and you graft it somewhere else on that sponge, it will grow back together and there won't be a problem. But if you take a piece of another sponge and graft it to that sponge, it will reject and kill that piece. So we know those immune systems are in place. They become increasingly complicated as we move up. The tree vertebrate immune systems are significantly more complicated. Plants have their own kind of immune systems. It's all about the immune systems. Now we can stop there and say that from a high level perspective, there are three different kinds of immune dysfunctions that we can see. The first is going to be a low immune system. Now this can be genetic. We've all heard of the case of the boy in the bubble who was born with a deficient immune system that he had to be kept inside, isolated away from bacteria and viruses that would easily kill him. We know that these can be acquired as well, HIV being one of the most common types of acquired immune deficiency where the virus kills off part of the immune system, rendering it incapable of functioning correctly. That's not where we're going to spend the focus of our time. We're going to move on to the other two ways that the immune system can have problems. The first would be allergies. So an allergy is an immune system responding to something outside of us that is in fact harmless. Cat dander, tree pollen, and grass are not going to kill you unless in fact you suffocate in a huge pile of those things. But your immune system responds to these substances as if they are harmful and mounts the response. So when we have the eyes, runny nose, congestion, that is not the allergen that is doing that. That is your immune system's response to the presence of that allergen. Now in our clinic we see proceeding autoimmunity very often. The presence of allergies suggesting some immune dysfunction has already begun for people. And then of course our third piece, autoimmunity. The immune system begins to turn against itself. So the difference between allergies and autoimmunity, a question we're commonly asked, allergies are an immune system directed at something outside of your body. Autoimmunity is the immune system directed at something inside of your body. So let's talk about autoimmunity for a second. The CDC says that 24 million Americans are afflicted with autoimmune diseases, but they only count 24 different types of autoimmune diseases and research suggests that there are more likely to be 80 to 100 different autoimmune diseases and then an additional 40 have been implicated to have some sort of autoimmunity involved with them. So for example, SIBO, which I think a lot of people have heard of, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, some people have an autoimmune process that leads to SIBO. Others do not, but we know it's involved and when we take these bigger numbers into account, more autoimmunity we suggest that upwards of 50 million people in the states are actually dealing with autoimmune disease. So that's quite a lot of autoimmune disease causing loss of function, disability, pain and even death. In fact, for all the women out there, autoimmune diseases among the top 10 leading causes of death for women who are under 65 years old. So for all the women and all the rest of us who love the women that are in our lives, we need to take autoimmunity seriously. So now that we know it's there, the question is why? Why do we have so much autoimmunity? The conventional picture kind of looks like this. We have genetics and then we have luck, right? So in the case of autoimmunity, the wind was blowing in the wrong direction or something happened and sorry, you have autoimmune disease now. So essentially you picked the wrong parents who gave you the wrong genes and then you rolled the dice and you came up wrong and now you have autoimmunity and we're so sorry that sucks. So what we need to do is give you some drugs and so we've developed a whole range of different immune suppressing drugs from simple to highly complex now from pills that you take to injections that you have to give yourself and they can work quite well for people. I'm not by any means anti-drug. There is a time and a place for the use of these medicines. But when we have a poor understanding of what causes autoimmunity, we're left simply treating the results of autoimmunity so we can use drugs to slow the autoimmune process or hopefully stop it but at the cost of suppressing the immune system giving us two more infections like we talked about in the beginning increased risk of cancer. So this is the situation that conventional medicine finds itself in. This is what we're going to be talking about. But back to that genetics piece. Our genetics really such a big deal. Everybody here knows wheat and celiac disease. So let's talk about celiac disease, an autoimmune disease with a very strong genetic component to it. In fact, greater than 95% of people who have celiac disease will have a certain set of genetics and if you do not have those genetics, your chance of having celiac disease is extremely small. So a lot of us are white or Caucasian out here and in general about 30% of the Caucasian population will have some or all of the genetics for celiac disease. However, only about 1% of the population actually has celiac disease. So there are loads of people. In fact, many of us here in this room, although I know we're a bit biased because many of us do have problems with wheat and gluten, but there are many people walking around out there with genetics that predispose them to celiac disease who do not have celiac disease. Many of the other genetic, the genetics that have been discovered to interact with various autoimmune diseases like type 1 diabetes and others show pretty weak linkages. So yes, genetics play a part. They provide the susceptibility that allows these autoimmune processes to occur, but they are not the be all and end all. So we need to focus more on those other factors that can trigger or turn on celiac disease. Nothing is stranger than say a 70-year-old woman who's never had problems with gluten her entire life is carrying around these genes and then suddenly has an activation of celiac disease. That can be a pretty hard pill for someone to swallow. So let's talk about these. And I don't believe that it's a random roll of the dice. In fact, I believe that there are triggers that can turn on these genetics and cause these issues for people. And today we're going to talk about five of them. So it's been a big theme so far in the conference that many of us are wrong. I certainly am as well. Some of these may not be correct. There may be more, but it's certainly a good starting place to cover. So there we go. The first of these factors that we need to touch on should be no surprise to anyone here, but it's what we call the mismatch theory. So we have these environmental mismatches. I know this is old hat to the people sitting in this room, speaking to the people who might be watching this video and hearing about this concept for the first time. The central premise of ancestral health and the ancestral component of disease is that a mismatch between what the human animal evolved to deal with that bring health is now mismatched with our living conditions and leading to disease. So we won't linger here too long, but obviously food choices have diverged dramatically from the type of foods that we ate ancestrally, and we can even define that as 100 years ago, 200 years ago, 500 years ago, we don't have to go back 10,000 years or more to talk about ancestral patterns of eating. Second is movement. Again, no big surprise to anyone. Our movement patterns are completely different again even than they were 100 years ago. Sleep is a huge factor that influences our immune system, our brain and everything in between. We sleep very differently than we did in the past. Stress is a very, very big deal. In fact, the three lifestyle factors that we find that routinely influence autoimmune disease either for the better or for the worse are food choices that people are making, the sleep patterns that they have and a huge one is their stress levels. We routinely see people with flares of autoimmunity when they're eating well, when they're sleeping well, but when their stress gets out of control for them. So stress is huge. The fifth factor, socialization, our social connections and patterns and our purpose in life. Often we focus on the other four factors much more strongly as a community, and thankfully voices are coming out and speaking more about our needs for socialization, connection, meaning in our lives. These are really big deals. So we've got these fives, the central tenant of ancestral health. I'd like to add three additional ones. We have an environmental mismatch between our gut bacteria, our microbiome as a whole. I just saw a study that came out recently on monkeys and they measured the microbiome of monkeys when they were taking them from the rainforest where they lived and after they had been taken and were living at zoos. And they found that even when they tried to enrich the zoos, even when they tried to feed the monkeys, you know, a probe species appropriate diets, they found a massive plummet in their level of gut, a bacterial diversity and they looked a lot like modern human beings. So we know that when people move for more ancestral or traditional living conditions into modern western lifestyle, their bacterial diversity and bacterial health plummets. We know this is a factor that's influencing health and disease. The second factor here is epigenetics. We know that these play a big role. And the third, if we can see, that's not a bright pointer. Okay, the third is toxicity. So in the last 100 years or so, we've introduced between 50 and 100,000 novel chemicals into our environment, most with very lax or little testing, and we're finding that that probably wasn't the best thing to do as far as health is concerned. Okay, so I have a question. We've heard a couple people today ask this, but people come to us all the time and they ask, listen, so if I get these factors under control, will I cure my auto-immune disease? Okay, and we've certainly heard from people that yes, it occurs. My experience is that for the most part, no, this is not sufficient at least for the people who come and work with us to fully and completely control their auto-immunity. We find like anything that there's a bell curve. Our experience has been that 20 to 30% of people find complete resolution of their auto-immune disease simply by addressing those factors that we've just talked about, including diet and lifestyle changes. The other 60 to 70%, 70 to 80%, sorry, we find that diet and lifestyle definitely impacts them, but it is not sufficient to fully and completely control their auto-immunity and more needs to be done for them. One quick example of someone, we've heard a couple, of someone that it did work really well for. We were seeing a woman who had a 10-year history of abdominal pain, feeling terrible, bad bowel habits, things just weren't right, been to many doctors, had many tests done, couldn't find an answer. We did a work up and found a mild case of Crohn's disease or inflammatory bowel disease or auto-immunity that was affecting her digestive system was the issue and she found that solely by changing diet and lifestyle factors completely cleared up. She's very happy today living the life that she wants. Plenty of energy, no more digestive troubles, everything is great. We love hearing those stories. They make good sound bites on the internet too. We'll talk a little bit more about it, but our experience is that diet and lifestyle can only take you so far and it's not sufficient for everyone. Alright, so that's factor one. Let's move on to factor two now. Factor two is gut health. Again, many people here probably know a lot about gut health. This is one of my favorite topics. I would love to spend between one and eight hours talking to you about gut health. Sadly, that is not to be the case for today. Let's summarize to say that roughly speaking 70% of our immune system lives in or around the digestive system, making it the primary and biggest interface between things that we do and its impact on our immune system. Roughly speaking, we can divide that into two categories. There's the food that we eat and there's the health of our bacteria. So by addressing these things, we can make huge strides in affecting gut health or gut dysfunction. Now the third factor we want to talk about today, the third trigger that can lead to autoimmune disease would be chronic infections. This is a bit tricky. Testing isn't really great on this. But we certainly know more research is coming out. For example, again, I saw a study the other day linking EBV, Epstein-Barr virus or what people call mono towards autoimmune diseases. We definitely see things as well like Lyme disease contributing to autoimmunity and we're highly suspicious of a lot of others as well. So chronic infections can definitely be a big trigger for people. In fact, type 1 diabetes is thought to be triggered by a gut infection that occurs. Alright, let's move on to the fourth trigger and that's toxicity. So we talked a little bit about this earlier, released a lot of stuff into the environment without really thinking that through. We know many of these chemicals are endocrine disruptors. They're obesogens. They're carcinogens. They impact the functioning of the immune system. For example, the use of solvents has been highly linked to an autoimmune disease, a nasty one called systemic sclerosis. We know that smoking is linked to higher risk for rheumatoid arthritis and on on it goes. Now one of the limitations of research that's just beginning to be addressed is the fact that we've found that one chemical is bad, but a second chemical or a third chemical stacked on top of it changes things entirely. And so it's much more, we're all marinating now in a nice toxic soup that we live in. And these chemicals interact in unpredictable ways and then each of us again have susceptible strengths, weaknesses, susceptibilities, how these things influence us. But we're understanding that this is definitely a factor that's influencing us. Alright, the fifth trigger and one I was very happy to hear that was brought up earlier is the psycho-emotional state of people. Now a lot of people that we work with or see get really defensive when we bring this factor up for people. And they say things like, you're telling me that my autoimmunity is all in my head, which they've often been told by other doctors meaning you don't really have a problem, you're just imagining that you have a problem. And that's not at all what I'm saying here. What I'm saying is what goes on in your head profoundly influences what goes on in the rest of your body. The field of psychoneuro immunology, those words, so psychomind neuro brain immunology immune system has shown us conclusively that what is going on in our head affects what is going on in the rest of us. And we commonly all the time hear stories about poor childhoods, troubled childhoods, major traumas around birth and childhoods, major factors that are influencing the long-term health and well-being of people. We've had people walk out on us, refuse to look at or address any of these issues. But I know that when we do see people addressing these, we see massive shifts and changes not only in their overall well-being and mental state, but also in their autoimmunity as well. And almost always the pattern that we hear when the autoimmunity occurred for people was in an extremely stressful and often traumatic period in somebody's life, and that's often the straw that breaks the camel's back and triggers the autoimmunity for people. So rather than simply saying genetics and bad luck and so sorry, now we have a little bit better idea to say yes, genetics provide a predisposition for people, but we know five major factors. Some people have five, four, three, but these are all involved in having a healthy immune system, and we know that dysfunctions in these areas contribute to autoimmunity. Now that we know that, let's talk about five steps to an evolutionarily informed integrative medicine approach to dealing with it. A lot of words there, five steps, evolutionarily informed, that's why we're all here. Integrative medicine approach, again, I believe that there's value in all of it, so we take the pieces that work well for us. So what does the first step of this kind of approach actually look like? And that simply investigation is the first step. If we don't know what factors are primary, that's what the internet provides for us well. This blog said I should try this and this podcast said I should try that, and so sure, I'll try it. But if we don't actually know what the underlying triggers or causes or issues that are going on for people, we're just basically being blindfolded and throwing darts at a dartboard and hoping that we hit it. If we don't want to do an appropriate work up, once we do that we have an idea of where we need to go. So it's important to note that sometimes symptom control, just like these firefighters, is critical for people. Before we can even get to the root causes, sometimes we just need to stabilize people. Think drugs like prednisone, things like elemental diets, various other therapies can be necessary before we even are able to get to the root causes that are underlying it. We usually find that within one to three months we can affect major symptomatic change for people which lets us then move on to addressing root causes of what's going on for people. Now some people can move through this extremely fast, others it's a pretty laborious and long process to get through depending on what's going on for people but these are primarily around those five factors that we talked about before. Lifestyle mismatches, gut health chronic infections, toxicity and psycho-emotional health for people. So as we work through this resolving these triggers we find a lot of times that the autoimmunity subsides and goes away for people which is awesome. The next step that we want to do is we got to polish the car up so we don't just want to take people from sick to not sick. We want to take people then from not sick to actually healthy thriving, high quality of life. And then the most important step that is often forgotten is simply maintenance. So we can take a little analogy here. If you come in, you have a new backyard and it's just a mess. There's trash everywhere and weeds and rocks and it's just not at all what you want it to be. It can be a tremendous undertaking to clean it all up and get it looking like you want to. But having done that you can't then just go awesome, all done. You don't need to do anything. Still got to mow the lawn and water and do all the other maintenance things to keep it healthy or in short order you're going to be back where you started with. We unfortunately see this pattern going on for people. They'll come in, they'll do the work that they need to do to get healthy and then they'll be like awesome, now I don't have to do any of that stuff anymore and you're like no, don't do that. You certainly don't, just like in our yard example, you don't need to put in the same level of effort and all of the same tools that you had to use to get things into the shape that you're looking for, but you still got to mow the lawn and water and do all the basic stuff that are going to keep you healthy or else that grass is just going to die for you. So people will always ask, can we cure auto-immunity? Can we turn it off never to rear its head ever again for people like turning off the light switch and my experience is no, we can't. But like a dimmer switch, we're able to turn the auto-immunity up or down based on what's going on and we can turn it down so low that essentially the lights are off. But coming back to that maintenance piece that we just talked about, if you then decide, well screw it, I don't want to eat well, I don't want to exercise, I don't want to do all these factors, you know, you're going to turn that dimmer switch back up again. Alright, people ask about time frames, how long does this take? We generally tell people, you know, they need to be prepared for an 18 to 24 month process. That doesn't mean they feel terrible for 18 to 24 months, it doesn't mean they don't see improvements, but that's a time frame that gives people enough time to solidify the health habits and take care of the issues for the long term because we don't want you to be healthy for a year or two, we want you to be healthy for decades going forward. Some people are going to race through and be done way faster than others, and that's just kind of how it goes. So, where do we begin with all of this? Again, as others have pointed out, I recommend that we do begin with these diet and lifestyle factors. So, we have people coming to us all the time from MD specialists who have been told that diet and lifestyle play zero role in what's going on for people. Which makes me just want to like grab the MD and shake them really hard about this. So, always start with diet and lifestyle. In my experience 20 to 30% of people can see complete remission of their autoimmunity just by doing this. And, what's the risk, right? It's not like you're going to hurt yourself by adjusting your diet and lifestyle unless you're doing it really wrong and please don't do it really wrong. So, we say look, you can't stay healthy without a healthy diet and lifestyle. However, just because you have a healthy diet and lifestyle does not guarantee that you will stay healthy. We run into a number of people in this community and beyond who would really love if diet and lifestyle can take care of every problem under the sun, and we wish it would too, but the fact is it can't. So, just because you have a healthy diet and lifestyle doesn't mean you'll stay healthy, but without a healthy diet and lifestyle we pretty much guarantee you won't stay healthy. Okay? So, then we start with a base of diet and lifestyle and to that we add herbs, herbal extracts, supplements and various nutrients. And again many people find that this combination is perfectly adequate to induce remission and have them feeling great long term. However, not for everyone. So, again that's where medication comes into play. Some people find that they also need medication in order to effectively control what is going on for them. I had a gentleman not too long ago with ulcerative colitis and we tried our darnedness with diet and lifestyle and other factors to fully get the UC under control and we just weren't able to. So, he was a little surprised when I started pushing him to go to an MD gastroenterologist and get on medication as part of the treatment. Now, what we always tell people is if we approach it this way by laying a solid foundation before it, then we maximize the effectiveness of the medication. We minimize the effective, we minimize the side effects that come from it and we build from a foundation of health. If we ignore these lower factors and skip right to medication like conventional practices, we're building on something without a firm foundation and you know how well that works. Now, sometimes even medication isn't sufficient to fully control what's going on and sometimes surgery is also necessary. I had a gentleman years ago who had been through every type of conventional medication available. He came to work with me. We did all the factors that we talked about. Nothing was controlling. In this case it was also UC. Nothing was controlling it. We recommended that he have a colactomy or surgical removal of his colon and it was wonderful for him for the first time in a long time. He had control. Is it ideal? Well, you know, we live in the real world. We've got to find what works best for people. So this is the foundation that we recommend. Always start with diet and lifestyle, herbal medicines and nutrients, prescriptions and surgeries as necessary moving up as we need to. So once again the point of this talk today has been to get away from specific tools. We have a lot of people saying well should I have those pliers or those pliers? And the question here is do you even need pliers? You might need a hammer or a screwdriver to deal with what's going on for you. But just like all of us should when we get something from IKEA and we're going holy crap, look at all these like boards and screws and everything else, we should stop for a second, look at the instructions and look at what we're actually trying to put together because we don't want to build a couch when we were supposed to put together a bookcase, right? Just like that we want to understand why we're using the tools that we're using, what the purpose is that we're trying to obtain and whether they're appropriate to use in that situation. If you really need to pound a nail, a wrench is probably not the best tool to pick for it. Alright, a couple of resources there are many. These are just three that I happen to like and I think will steer you in a good direction for anyone out there not sure where to begin. The Paleo Approach by Sarah Ballantyne, very nice book, helped many people. Dr. Michael Ruchio's Healthy, Got Healthy You, great resource for people and of course Terry Walls is awesome and her Walls protocol has worked very nicely for many people especially with neurological issues. Still a lot of people feel like they're lost in the maze, not sure what to do. I highly recommend having a competent health professional or health team even better on your side to help you make these changes. We all have blind spots, none of us can do it ourselves. We need a team to help us. There are a lot of great doctors out there. Again, unfortunately there's a lot of not so great doctors out there. Certainly there are resources for people and just a plug for us. We work with people locally in Redmond, Washington. We consult with people nationally and internationally. So if there is anybody out there they don't know where to turn, they don't know what to do, please reach out to us. We can help you. Alright, last but not least we've talked about a lot of high level stuff but I'd like to make an offer for a free e-book we have that gives seven pointed action steps that you can get started with right away. All you have to do is go to the website, AspireNaturalHealth.com slash AHS 18, download it there for free, take a look at it and apply it in your own life. There's our contact info if anybody would like to reach out to us. Thank you all for listening. Happy to take any of your questions. Thank you. Hey, so we have about eight minutes for questions and if you do have questions please come over to the microphone or I can bring it to you if you don't want to get up. Okay, thank you for that. That was great. So I just wanted to extend a personal invitation to come see my poster. I'd like to add number six to your list. There's a vaccine-induced autoimmunity and I just really quickly suggest that what we're now learning, Tsubiyama out of Kobe University in Japan showing that repeatedly activating the immune system eventually breaks down the system that stops the body from attacking itself. And the vaccine program is constantly activating the immune system. That's the first thing I would say. So if anyone's suffering from autoimmune diseases, you are making it worse if you keep on activating your immune system with vaccines. And then the second thing I would just add here is that 60% of the vaccines contain aluminum and that is also causing the body to create autoimmune reactions. So yeah, so I just wanted to say that there's lots more. These drugs are making a mess of things. I would love for you to come to my poster and chat. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. We'll catch up. Hey, Chris. Hi Tim. I fell in love with your work in 2014 with your talk on methylation. I noticed that this talk is more basic than that one and the question is actually about the 2014 talk. How important do you think methylation is with respect to anything? I'm really interested in this idea that information becomes more valuable as it gets older, right? If it's still around after four years, it's probably more important than what you just found out about it 15 minutes ago, right? Sure. Well, that's interesting. Sure. Go for it. I was going to ask you about epigenetics. Obviously with methylation, acetylization, it's a one-way street. So a gene that's switched and gets switched off. And so when people are having improvements from some sort of conditions, it's obviously some other set of genes that switch to some functions being regulated compensates for that. But for me, it would be expected that an autoimmune condition wouldn't reverse no matter what we did. I just wondered, yeah. Well, you know, epigenetics is interesting because there certainly, there seem to be some, you know, and this is my terminology here but some deeply programmed epigenetics that seems irreversible. A lot of that happens prenatally or really early in the lifespan, which is yet another factor why what goes on in the first two years, well in pregnancy and then in the first two years of a person's life has a big role in shaping what's going to happen to them for the rest of their life which is both neat and kind of depressing really. So we have those deep epigenetics that don't seem to be altered and then we know that there are kind of more superficial epigenetics that change all the time. We've seen that studies have shown that, you know, your response to a singular meal causes changes in the epigenome that are then either reinforced or changed based on what comes afterwards. So certainly it probably has, epigenetics clearly have a role to play in autoimmunity. You know, this is a bit of a larger discussion, Chris, about methylation and some of these factors. So I'll just say that, you know, I both give the conventional system credit and crap for being really slow to entertain changes. And certainly some of the, a lot of us are riding the cutting edge because we're looking for new options and choices and things to help people that don't get help elsewhere. But certainly some of the stuff that we jump on really enthusiastically we find doesn't pan out in the way that we expected it will. So certainly absolutely there are people that we find that adjusting their methylation patterns brings massive improvement in their quality of life and how they're feeling and a lot of their symptoms especially a lot of psychological issues we've seen change really dramatically by addressing methylation. A lot of some of the other things that we were hoping for, we're just not seeing it pan out quite as well as we thought. Well let me make the question really specific. When was the last time you ordered a blood test and looked at SNPs in somebody's folate cycle? Sure. Well it's fair, you know, thanks to easy genetic testing now it's still fairly common that we take a look at it. But it was certainly we're looking at it more in a constellation of what's going on for a person rather than over biasing it. Oh you're, you know, an MTHFR 677T therefore this is a huge factor. We must address it in all of this where we're looking more now at what else is going on for a person and trying to slot that in. And that's the way with a lot of the genetics frankly. Genetics were a bit of the same thing when they first started to become available. We were like oh my god this is amazing this is going to change everything and then we're left with a lot of hmm I actually don't know exactly what this is doing for a person and desperate. So we've sort of gone from in my practice over biasing genetics in general to more bringing them down and using them just as a component of what's going on for someone. Yeah absolutely. Any other questions from anybody? Awesome. But you want to, they want you to go up to them. So I guess this is someone who can do that speaking of the methylation. When you're talking about, when you talk about people leaving saying oh it's all in your head, it sounds a little nebulous when you talk about the psyche. I mean it's all chemical components. When can that be dealt with? Like saying what is the mood change that you're trying to talk about? How is that chemically brought on? Is it either enhanced or diminished? How do you get to that state? Because that's more realistic. Sure. Well I mean I think you're asking questions that go beyond the scope of what all we know. Still psychiatry is still very much uncertain about a lot of the exact, we know rough grained a lot of the chemicals that are involved in various neurologic processes and moods and various other things but more fine grains where we start to lose our understanding. Obviously we can take addressing psycho-emotional issues from two perspectives. One is the biochemical perspective. Are we looking at deficiencies or excesses of serotonin or dopamine nor adrenaline epinephrine, cortisol, histamine. A lot of these various chemicals and if they are, we can use interventions to help adjust that. Then from what you'd like to call it a more subjective experience for a lot of people, appropriate counseling or somatic work or other things can approach it a little bit from the mind side of things and cause adjustments. Again we know that these are chicken and egg type of things. So sometimes we focus on the biochemical and a lot of times we ask people to do the appropriate psychologic work as well. I'm not sure if that answered your question. Quasi. Quasi. Yeah. Awesome. Again I want to thank you all for coming.