 Ladies and gentlemen could we could we please stop the discussions over there? We want to continue with our sessions and everyone who has the need To individual discussion, please leave the room or stay which is the better alternative Excuse me again Ladies and gentlemen may I ask you to either leave or stay in the room? Thank you so much Well ladies and gentlemen Welcome to our sessions on critical raw materials Why do we have that? session because energy has told us in recent months After the war with Ukraine That you should not Be too dependent on a single supplier and I'm as a German know what I'm talking about We need diversification and that is the more true when it comes to lithium To cobalt to copper to nickel to valadium to rare earths which we all need for the daily devices of our Modern life and therefore This subject has an enormous geopolitical meaning if we are not able to secure affordable reliable raw materials our industries cannot survive and therefore we have decided with Tiree de Montréal and Songnim Kron and others to put this on the agenda and we have great experts to here and To online with us the first I would like to introduce to you is a scholar a scholar Who has worked for? 40 years on these subjects much before they became popular and that is a Philippe who is with us and Philippe soma is a professor at University Paris Duffin he is author of 40 books on economic issues and he is the founder and head of Ciclope and Ciclope has this handbook out every year since 36 years and it's a Documentation a handbook on the latest developments in the field of commodities and raw materials So there is hardly a better expert on this issue in Europe Then Philippe Philippe soma the floor is yours Well, thanks very much, and I'll try to be as short as possible. Do you know by the way? Which is a commodity which has had the steepest rising prices in 2022 it's not natural gas. It's lithium a ton of lithium carbonate today cost around 80,000 dollar when two years ago it was between 10 and 15,000 dollar Multiply by seven to eight if you take nickel you spoke about nickel nickel in the early days of March This year it jumped for some time at $100,000 per ton and Another a mineral which is important in the same field of electric batteries Of course graph it one doesn't speak much about graph it its price has risen by thirty-three percent only in 2022 all this of course is linked to energy transition needs and that's why we Speak now of a new category which we called a CRM critical raw materials In Cyclope we have a devoted a chapter on what we call Electric materials where we do put lithium cobalt graph rate and some other What is a commodity a critical raw material? It's definitely a material which is strategic for economic development and of course it deepens of technologies so If we had had that classification some years or centuries ago It would have been very different for example the critical raw materials in the antiquity Was thin because thin and copper you made bronze and with that you could make arms But at the end of the 19th century Tin was still a critical raw materials because with that you were making tin plate and Tin plate was very useful to manufacture the boxes in order to keep food and by the way the first Contract on the London Metal Exchange at the end of the 19th century was not copper. It was thin now it's very clear that critical raw materials you find them in electronics in Batteries and so on by the way tin is back right now because it's used for electronic soldering in the chip industry today When we look at a critical raw material, of course you have all what is needed for batteries That is lithium cobalt graph it nickel I would probably add rare earths which are used in wind technologies Platinum in hydrogen and some others By the way the extraordinary thing with energy transition is that everything was decided without a Sort of what could be purchase planning? we love all solar energy for example, but So far 80% of solar panels are coming from China With silicon being the big problem It was more or less the same thing for electric batteries And I remember about ten years ago when a French company was developing a fleet in Paris So a vehicle to of electric vehicle to hire they later contacted me Where could we find some lithium? That was the question Today if you just look at batteries, which are probably the hottest problem product at the moment for cathode lithium if I take the consumption as a demand in 2022 today and the demand which is forecasted for 2030 the needs for lithium should be multiplied by 490% for graph it it should be 554% if you go on the other side for the anode the needs for cobalt 172% more and nickel only 96% but when you think about electricity to carry electricity you need of course copper and you see that in fact Even old metals are now the very hot commodities In fact, we are facing two problems the problem of Reserves is not really a problem when we speak about lithium the production of equivalent lithium metal is today 100,000 tons There are 22 million tons of reserves same for cobalt same for rare earth rare earth the production today is around a bit less than 300,000 tons and reserves are 120 million tons the problem is not there the problem is mining and Mining with the dependency on some areas 50% of the reserves of lithium are in the triangle of lithium Argentina Bolivia and Chile 60% of cobalt is in the Democratic put it into a bracket Republic of Congo and when you look at platinum at palladium vanadium you look at Russia and South Africa it's clear that on The mining side we have a problem which is today not enough mining investment We should have on the overall mining industry around 160 billion of investment dollars in revenge of investment each year Last year well last year which has been completed that is in 2020 world investment in mining was only $80 billion so half what should be needed and you know as I do that in many countries It's very difficult to open a mine to open a mine in Europe is a problem the biggest reserve and Potential producer of lithium in Europe should be Serbia and for the moment everything is closed In France we just discovered some lithium But before exploiting it will have to To have all the green hurdles that you can imagine so It's really in many countries very very difficult to open a mine by the way the greens Love to put us on electric vehicles, but they don't want us to produce lithium Try to see if there is not a problem in their mind, but mining is one thing Metallurgy is another thing you have the mineral you have to Transform it into a usable product For a long time rare earths were not rare And the center of rare earths metallurgy by the way was in France Today we have all exported we have delocalize our environmental problems and of course rare earths you know now is about 80 percent Produced in China When you look at the position of China by the way as far as metallurgy is concerned today China produces 60% of lithium be it carbonate or hydroxide 65% of cobalt metal 70% of graphite and only 30% of nickel So what kind of solutions can we have it's clear that today all car? Manufacturers are trying to build joint venture General motors as one with valley for nickel with a lever for with a for lithium Tesla has just Taken some participation in new caledonia. It was even said that Tesla could buy Minor minority stake in Glencore the world's biggest Invest minor and trader in in minerals of course We have the possibility of developing recycling which will be important remember that for normal cars, which are with lead batteries More than 60% of world lead is secondary lead that is recycled one But in fact, it's clear that we are facing potential deficits in the origin of 2030-2040 and That will be perhaps for lithium perhaps for cobalt more more certainly poor more basic products like copper or tin and in fact We are back to Antiquity to the time when Copper plus tin were making bronze your German both of you Remember that the corporate trade made the fortune of Austria of the as book monarchy and the figure trade company What is important to my mind and I will conclude on that is that? It's important. What is strategic. It's important to anticipate and to plan I will give you an example of a perfect Irrational decision the decision by the European Parliament to ban all gasoline and diesel powered cars by 2035 It's stupid. It's counterproductive Both on the fact that we don't have enough lithium on that reason the time of mining It takes 10 15 years, so we will lack the production of leak of lithium necessary and we will probably have some problem for cobalt and others and By the way, all the those electric cars will be run by power Which will be perhaps derived from coal just to finish Remember that quotation from a French poet Elioir was saying that you should never Look at the past with today's eyes You must not immerge in the futures with today's technologies Thank you very much, Philippe. I wish my my kids could Study in Paris Dauphine and here you with so much power and so much clearness Very great Introduction next speaker is Peter Handley Peter is head of energy intensive industries raw materials and since recently also hydrogen in the direction general for internal market and industry so He is basically mr. Raw material of the European Union and What Philippe is in the academic world. He is in the world of the EU and the institutions of the EU So we are we're very happy to have you you had important positions before You were head of policy coordination in the energy union You did a lot of work also in the British government and You are one of the few Brits that I know who speaks French who has been studying at enough in France and I'm sure you're looking with a great Excitement to today tonight's evening football match between France and Britain But before you have to have a duty and tell us in 10 minutes What is the EU's policy concerning these problems that have just been described? Please Peter Thank you. Thank you very much and may I first say how much I appreciate being invited back and also the Wonderful very challenging introduction from Professor Schellman. I think it's set to start for a good panel debate Since since I was here a year ago everything changed Notably Russia's invasion of Ukraine has created a whole new Global paradigm which has had its impacts on supply chains And it's also been one of the drivers for action by a number of countries and regions around the world we amongst them But look at what's been happening. The Americans have been rolling out their inflation reduction act their infrastructure act and their defense procurement and top filing Japanese have been Updating the Economic Security Act and reinforcing the powers of job mech Canadians have just rolled out a draft critical mineral strategy and just a few weeks ago decided to eject Chinese investors from three critical war projects inside Canada and On the international front My team and I have been participating in the new initiatives set up by the international energy agency in its critical minerals working party We're taking an active part in the minerals security partnership established by the US State Department and Also in the new Paris Peace Forum called for action on global governance the critical minerals Turning turning to our own Plans in the European Union Shortly after Russia's invasion the European Council had a Reflection at Versailles and the declaration came out saying that the European Union We don't hear you right now. There is a problem Peter we can't hear you perhaps you have to get restarted and Since you are not available right now, I would think we should come here back to the panel Peter, excuse me for this, but we have to make use of that time and I would like to introduce You're coming back. I'm sure And technique will will make that possible But I would come back to the panel here and introduce to you Jonathan Cordero Jonathan is head of corporate business development of Great company it's called the Eurasian resources group ERG That is a natural resource conglomerate operating in Europe in Kazakhstan in Russia Brazil Sub-Saharan Africa Congo South Africa 19 billion in assets 7 billion revenues 85,000 employees so it's a huge company and Well, if we talk about diversification of raw materials The ERG is one of the first addresses to turn to because they are all over the world and not only concentrated in a few countries So Jonathan, your floor is yours great to have you here. Thank you, Fred But it's an honor to be here with all of you and talking about a topic that is Not only very close to my heart, but also at the core of everything we do at ERG Cop 27 is a testament of Our endeavors reinforcing the intent of our society to decarbonize to make the world a better planet for the ones that come after us and Every week we can hear about new commitments both from the private as well as from the public sector To net zero Some of which we heard very ambitious goals The transition towards electric vehicles Let's appreciate where we have come as a society. I think we can proud of ourself and How united we as a society are in the move towards Decarbonizing the harsh reality. However, is that the metals required to make this transition happening are coming from an industry That historically has suffered from a very bad reputation due to social and environmental issues And even bigger problem is that the commodities needed as we just heard and we got a very good Wrap-up of what is needed and the numbers simply do not exist Let me be more precise They do not exist the metals itself exists subsurface untapped undiscovered underdeveloped we need to We need to quickly expand the production and that's where we're gonna struggle Most now industry to hit the net zero global emission goals by 2050 and we had some about 2030 already or 2035 We will need to produce on average six times more material than we'd produced today This means I mean, it's a very abstract concept. What does six eggs mean? It means that 336 new mines Predict that currently in development will all together need to come online and start producing To supply the materials needed lithium copper cobalt and so on Recycling rates itself are low Yes, the segment in supply is exponentially growing, but we're not substitute Primary mining in the short term. Just ask yourself How many smartphones do you have unused in your own drawer at home? We are in the verge of a decade-long Supercycle and despite some recent setbacks that we had this year and some disruptions the fundamentals have never been stronger Yet our industry suffers from a variety of challenges ahead of us Depleting resources deteriorating grades The mines existing will eventually come to a halt going concerned does not exist in our industry The capital markets are failing junior miners To provide sufficient capital to take entrepreneurial risk and go to untapped territories and make the discoveries needed and the increased focus from investors towards ESG standards leads to funds being not diverted Towards the mines that need to be developed that are in countries such as the Democratic Republic of Congo Unless investors face the fact that the materials needed will not come from G7 countries The important mines that need to be developed will be continued to be disregarded and not go online Which puts all of our plans and great missions at risk We face logistical bottlenecks that are separated by geopolitical tensions and we spoke about this a lot today and our industry struggles to attract young talent against the competition of shiny tech companies space discovery or the financial sector I Personally cannot think of any more industry that is more purpose-driven and making an impact on the world and I think we need to improve here a lot Our industry is not very good in adapting new technologies and innovating quickly enough We are behind the curve and notoriously risk-averse and last but not least We can still learn a lot about marketing ourselves Most people do not realize that in most of the operations. We are the only employer We take responsibility for the people in our countries in the host communities We are the ones that built the roads the electricity the water supply the schools the hospitals and very often also the stadiums So let's make mining sexy again the global better transition is the largest purchase order in history probably only comparable with the Industrial revolutions from 200 300 years ago Trillions of dollars will have to be invested in making our plans happen yet we face Especially in critical minerals that resource nationalism increases Parallel value chains are being built in several countries with several nations to capture vague value locally The value creation itself is very unevenly Distributed among the value chain Take your example of a typical smartphone, which costs you a thousand dollars the materials used in that is typically around 150 to 200 dollar two dollars of this The price of cobalt the Democratic Republic of Congo accounts for 70% of the production and holds about half of the reserves globally That gives you an understanding of where the value is allocated the global battery transition gives us the opportunity in Creating a more balanced and fair distribution of value between the developed and the developing countries and with the increase of demand and the fast need for ramping up production ESG related risks increase at the same rate Where states and national policy makers find its natural boundaries Global market that participants needs to take responsibility Responsibility to protect our environment responsibility to enforce human rights responsibility for the host communities that we operate in in short transparent and responsible sourcing cradle to grave and This means leveling the playing field by agreeing with all market participants with binding rules of Engagement for responsible sourcing. This is a commitment that end customers demand from us and They are more than right in doing so. Thank you so much Jonathan. That's that's very important that your mind on on on this and Well, I think it was a great overview I just heard that we will have Peter later on but I would like now to turn to Engvill Smines to Bork get a from Norway and here we have an incumbent in the sphere of Raw materials of critical mission that we have ahead of us is so big. There's no competition in mining There's so much work for all of it. It's a huge company already established and here is wonderful new company from Europe Called norga mining norga is for the second time partner of the world policy conference And I welcome you wholeheartedly Engvill. You have been a Norwegian minister for petroleum and energy You also have been minister of Public security in your country and now you bring you all your experience and government And also in the oil and gas business To norga mining which has had a number of which has found big deposits in Norway and that is in Europe which Now should be exploited and we want to learn more about that very exciting endeavor. So the floor is yours Engvill Thank you so much. I hope the technology will will manage, you know, the transportation from Norway to the other Last year I was participating in person Which was in any aspect a much better solution than participating digitally, of course I am mentioning this in particular because December is a very cold month here in Norway And I'm freezing sitting here in my own home office with the electricity prices going through the roof So I am emphasizing the climate in Norway for such an audience. Why am I doing that? Well, let me take a few steps back Much of the focus last year's this last year's and rightly so have been on mitigating the worst effect of Environment from energy production and the transition to low-carbon and sustainable alternatives This approach, however Risks of a looking some crucial issues How to bridge the gap to a sustainable future while simultaneously meeting the ever-increasing demand for energy? Living in Europe. I will give you the examples from the same continent It is an energy crisis in Europe these days Short-sighted European energy policy Made it painful for all of Europe when Putin invaded Ukraine leaving energy security back on everybody's lips The solution seems obvious and the short term Cold fire plants power are reopened and the life of nuclear power plants. It's extended and in the longer term More wind and solar plants and battery factories will become even more important Thus the paradox arises Europe will go from a fossil to a renewable energy system risking that this new energy system Will be much more dependent on China and Russia than the current system The reason why well, it's minerals a Renewable a renewable energy system is highly dependent on minerals minerals defined by the EU as critical Without these your premium economy will come to an abrupt fold the green shift increases distant dependency as You all have been speaking about a wine wind power plants needs nine times more minerals than an equivalent gas fire plant power plant and An electric car needs six times more than a fossil car These minerals are hardly mined in Europe as you also have stated in the panel Both Russia and China are major exporters The crisis created by the invasion of the crane is well known But in the event of a hope not conflict with China Chinese experts of CRM's will become a powerful weapon The continent could be plunged into a crisis that turns the current energy crisis in a pale shadow The struggle for access to minerals is also international foreign and public foreign and security policy It is a conflict The West is not well prepared for The West is even more dependent on Russian and a team minerals Then on Russian and Chinese energy Former minister of public security and the petroleum and energy and now the present member of the Norwegian Defense Commission I'm very aware of the challenges. I have presented and you have talked about that. We're going to talk about in this session I'm also aware of the highly important natural resources We are blessed to have in Norway all the gas abundance of hydropower we are paying for it by bad weather conditions both and huge resources of different minerals minerals defined at the list of EU as CRM's and I'm sure Peter will let the talking a little bit about those in a little while Currently Europe relies on pit and parts for these materials which brings supply chain vulnerability and geographical risk As a result the EU wants to increase in the European production and processing of such minerals It should be noted that currently Europe consumes about a quarter of the world's raw materials that produces only about three percent as Already mentioned some sentences ago the green energy transition to deliver a carbon neutral economy is critical raw material intensive The global shift from fossil fuels to renewable energy can only be achieved through the mining of metals and minerals Playing the key role in green energy production and storage So far we the company and each on the board member of Nordic mining Have completed more than 72,000 meters of drilling and in summary The exploration work has been tremendously successful In that we have discovered at least and published two world-class resources of phosphate Vanadium and titanium making up just about 10 to 30 percent of our Entire potential. I would like to underline that approach. We have taken to the project and This is utmost important to us and to Europe and to the mining industry Is to embrace the highest standards of environmental and other behaviors Alignment with the international sustainable liquor programs ESG and SDG Compliancy and disclosure good guidances are Central to our strategy for becoming a responsible responsible mining and processes business The e-argument for increasing the production of raw materials in Europe has never been stronger nor need more urgent phosphate vanadium and titanium are all on the list of CRM's and they have all been found in our licenses in our way phosphate is very much a case in this point. I Had to mention this because it was not mentioned before phosphate was added to the list in 2014 and has remained on the list ever since It is concluded because of its key role in the agriculture industry in the production of fertilizers and for the food security Almost all up around 90 percent 95 percent of phosphate produced is used in fertilizers For phosphate is absolutely central to the security of food supply But phosphate is also increasingly important in the green energy transition as mentioned Over to its each use of a left the P batteries Such as electric vehicles and static energy storage China is the world's biggest producer of phosphate of today followed by Morocco the US and Russia The war in the crane has weaponized natural resources Energy but also phosphate a Conflict also has weaponized grain supply which further threatens food security, which will have effect on a broader scale EU has historically improved Imported most of its phosphate from Russia The invasion of Ukraine has created an urgent requirement to prevent dependency on Russia There could be couldn't be any better time to develop the phosphate industry in a stable environment in the heart of Europe in Europe in Norway It will create security of supply in Europe and beyond thereby contributing to food security and positively Also reflect thousand miles away, and I also have to mention that nervous resources would last 50 years and beyond The vast resources of phosphate in Norway could underpin the emergency of a European LFB battery industry So let me conclude and come back to me start in talking about the outside temperature here in Norway The energy crisis we are experienced now are to be followed by a much more widely sprayed crisis Sierra Rens Without our own mining industry Europe is building its renewable energy system on Chinese and Russian soil And I think that should worry all Europeans and thank you so much for having this topic in this conference Well, we we thank you Thank you. We thank you in bill for for your time and We do hope that that what you have started with with nor the mining will will get stronger and stronger and I Use this to get back to Peter. We interrupted you or you were interrupted by by the internet and of course, we don't want to Ask you new questions. You should first of all finish your Remarks, but perhaps you can also take in what what Ingle just said and I I saw you listening Norway is not member of the EU. Is it nevertheless? considered a European country which could be under the support and the legislative Approaches of the European Union as it definitely helps us to get less Dependent on Chinese and Russian resources as we just heard Please Peter. Happy that you are back Apologies for the loss of internet connection Just to answer that question Indeed Norway is a very close and trusted partner of the European Union It's a member of the European Economic Area and I'm not sure whether you I reached the point in my opening remarks to say that We're currently Finalizing our negotiations on a strategic partnership with Norway covering critical raw materials and the batteries value chain And on top of that, of course, we're working very closely with Norway on the supply of gas And I I see this continuing. We're about to also conclude a EU Norway Green Alliance covering a much broader range of climate and energy But going back to where I think I I lost my connection The key thing is that the European Union has woken up to the imminent Danger it faces of not being able to achieve its energy and climate goals as well as its defense and aerospace and digital goals unless it really gets to grips with Eliminating its strategic dependencies on on far too few foreign suppliers for many of these critical minerals At different stages in the bad things though as previous speakers have said it's sometimes a challenge at the mining level But much more often it's a challenge at the processing and refining stage And we've actually got a mandate from the European Council to take much more ambitious action to pure our supply and to clean up the whole value chain and So in September Commission president Ursula von der Leyen announced that we're going to prepare a European critical raw materials Act And that's the reason I'm not with you In Abu Dhabi today because every day counts We're due to produce this legislation in March next year So it gets through while we still have this European Parliament and this European Commission And the purpose is to really Identify what we're going to be concerned about in fact, we're going to be going beyond Critical raw materials and talking about those which are particularly strategic for the technologies that we've decided we need to develop fast We're going to be looking at how we can encourage member states to do much more systematic exploration We're going to look at how we can develop sustainable mining We're going to look at how we can reinforce the refining and metallurgical stages of the value chain And we're going to be linking up the recycling phase with the refining stage And we're also going to be looking at how we can recover waste recover critical raw materials from mining waste And we're going to look at the investment tools we need deployed to make this happen We're going to look at how can streamline permitting without making any weakening of environmental and social protections and We're going to be looking at standard setting and Trying to push the circularity and recycling targets as much as we can And that's just on the domestic side because as the president says a lot of this is about building our own capacities reduce our strategic dependencies But we're also going to seek to diversify our external supply We're already doing this Last year we negotiated agreements with Canada which has already generated a large number of major investments We also last year negotiate with Ukraine And we're going to use this partnership as one of the building blocks for reconstruction of the country once Russia's brutal Invasion is over and This year at COP 27 President Bonderland signed agreements on critical raw materials with both Kazakhstan and Namibia So apart from the one with Norway, which is currently about to be finalized We've just started talks with Greenland and There'll be news about other strategic partnerships in the course of next year And that's an addiction to our work jointly with partners in the mineral security partnership Thank you very much Well, thank you Peter that sounds very encouraging And the picture I get here from all what you say is the consciousness now is there Action will be taken strong actions from the European Union. We have strong established players new players and I think that gives me more optimism than on the energy front for the time being but You have asked for the floor and then yeah comment just wanted to comment because we've we focalize a bit on strategic raw materials for energy transition and so on and What he is said about phosphate is pretty important It's clear that among all Necessary materials for the future of humankind there is one which can't be substituted All metals at one point or another you can substitute one by another I can substitute a bit cobalt by nickel and so on well some time So if there is one product which you can substitute which you need For crops for the development of crops is first phase and first phase That's very very important for the moment. I didn't consider it as such a Dangerously strategic materials because we have a chance a good part of first-phase reserves and the first and the biggest producer of first-phase is a Fairly friendly country. It's Morocco. So for the moment. We don't have too much problem, but as far as a Fertilizers are concerned if I have not a concern with phosphate I have one with ammonia so natural gas and a last one is potash and our Our potash in Europe comes from two very nice countries which was which are Russia and Belarus So don't forget fertilizers Which is not a high technology industry, but which is just necessary To allow us and to allow 10 billion people to eat by the end of the century But but Philip as far as I understood Ingle has just mentioned that You have found Big deposits, especially of phosphate in Norway. Could you could you tell us how much is that and what is Interesting, I think when could they go online? I mean when could you go online with a production? You have a timetable from finding to To the production when can the EU and others Benefit from from what you're doing there. Thank you so much for the question And that's why we're so happy for the collaboration and the work that Peter and his people is doing because they are pushing not only you but also the Norwegian government To have their licenses and the patents and everything to come together to do this as soon as fast as possible for our concern it's Only the governmental issues and the authorities that are you know Longing that the face, but it has to be taken in in the steps that that's needed to do it in a sustainable way but when it comes to sustainable issues because I really Support the the arguments that you know, we don't want mining industry in Europe But what's very good in in the findings we have which is approximately 70 billion tons of phosphate and vanadium Quite huge resources. It's open pickmines Is that we have a highly educated people? It's downtown in Norway. So we don't have the same issues It's also found in a region where the oil and gas industry is highly developed. It's just outside Such stavanger, which is the oil and gas capital if you can say that in Norway So that the stakeholder engagement and contribution to this is this is very good We have a very good in excellent infrastructure around the findings with the big deep sea harbours Abundancy as you also know of renewable energies in in in Norway and Because of that future decrease not now have to say that so we don't make another issue of Norway not being a provider of gas to Europe But we know that Decrease in the oil and gas industry will happen So the Norwegian politics politicians from the left to the right is all very supportive to this to this project because we need a Job creation and we need in this new industry development and so the mining industry could be a part of that So the stakeholder the politicians not both national and regional are very supportive to this and That's also thanks to Peter and his people. Thank you Jonathan you asked for the floor may I Nevertheless take up that question or that remark from Ingvill in Norway, obviously there is a Consciousness and a willingness of the population that mining in Europe is again Necessary and they support it obviously there and the areas there are not very much populated how is it in Other countries in the world what do you see when it comes to mining in Europe? Is there a change of attitude or is there still a lot of resistance against new projects, but but also your point please you have two points basically I'm happy to answer with regards to to the acceptance of mining as industry and in the developed markets But I would also like to add a few points with regards to The timing of my of my of project development So with regards of acceptance In the industry and with the people so the whole concept of ESG is not news to our industry Mining has been doing what is now subsidized and that is term that was developed some five to ten years now in the making For decades we had interactions with the host communities forever We always had the had an understanding of the responsibility towards our the people and the communities and the environment We called it social license to operate So the engagement that needs to happen before building a mine was is always a core if of mining companies itself and That needs to happen. It's a very actively managed process that needs to be institutionalized with the various company itself So the engagement process is something very important and I personally I also may not want to have a mine in the backyard of my house Right, but I think there's a lot of education that needs to happen I think the understanding that the the transition to the low-carbon economy will not happen without mines is Something that is not fully understood in my point of view. So it's educational piece and then when it comes to to building a mine The discussion with Authorities and the licenses and their host countries is important But it's equally important to Interact and starting to interact very early on in the process before you set the first drill rig with the community surrounding Now coming back a bit to to the to the timing and your question how quickly will it will be producing Depending on the commodity building a mine takes 10 to 15 years And that is not all bureaucracy and licensing. That's just a minor piece of it It's just very diligent work that needs to go into building an economic mine It's a lot of studies a lot of work a lot of people involved in bringing that online and it's a Sometimes billion dollars investments. We're building an iron ore project in in Brazil at the moment This is close to five billion dollars investment And so and you're not doing this for producing five years or three years You're doing this with a horizon of 30 years live of mine So if you combine that when we sit here together today, we need to take an investment decision for the next 50 years so mine and in its core is a very long-term business and We're very happy to subscribe to any standards at the time of investment decision But we also urge policymakers to after the time not change the rules of the game Thank you Yeah, just to complete what you said the biggest greenfield investment in copper Is the mine of OU Tolgo in Mongolia? I remember it was decided by the end of last century it took them 15 years to develop the first phase and the second phase is not yet completed So it's a more or less 20 25 years later And the second point I wanted to stress of course France is not exactly the center of the world, but There won't be any mining in France. Unfortunately. We had a project by the way. It's not a strategic Metal it was gold in Guyana, you know France has a small chunk of Latin America in Guyana There was a project which was to suppose to be a Sustainable mine with all the precautions being taken in a country where we have a very tough administration on that it was a montaigne door project in Guyana and unfortunately It was a completely a it couldn't proceed because of the opposition mainly of Green NGOs, especially WWWF Which was shared in France by somebody who is by now the chairman of the Environment Commission at the European Parliament. So that shows that the NIMBY not in my backyard ID You have to take it at the size of a country and even on a continent I'm very frankly doubtful about the capacity in Europe to develop new mining project And I'm happy to know that no way Could be an exception. Well, well Peter that we want to give that question to you Can the EU do something will it do something to speed up processes that we don't have to wait 20 years Given the present situation and can it do something for raising the consciousness that for instance for this green deal We need Mining more mining also in Europe, please Yes, so what we cannot do is speed up the technical side of getting projects up and running and there's the two previous speakers Have said, you know, you actually have to work out the the process models You have to work out the geology and it takes time to build facilities and bring them online But where we do see huge scope for improvement is speeding up the permitting processes at the moment In the European Union, and I think probably also in Norway These are too slow too unpredictable things get stuck and That's not the way to do it if you've got projects of strategic importance So we're looking at best practices around the world and also at how we can improve things here We're talking very much to our environment colleagues and those responsible for renewable energies because I don't if you've noticed But in the last few weeks we've proposed an emergency measure to push through the permitting of of wind and solar projects Because we absolutely need the the ramp up of wind and solar in order to achieve our decoupling from Russian fossil fuels faster than faster than originally planned So we're going to have to look very much at what we can do on speeding up the permitting for for mines or extraction sites or new industrial facilities And it means things like looking at creating a single a one-stop approach It looks at parallel running of different permitting processes having strategic impact assessment as strategic environmental Assessments before you start on the specific projects. It means Nominating a coordinator who just makes sure that things don't get stuck and move forward Expeditiously, and it also means making sure that you take a good close look at the judicial system so that there are no frivolous Frivolous appeals which they can get stuck in the court system for one two or three years There has to be a much more conscious approach to dealing with getting strategic projects Delivered without weakening environment or social social performance Well, we have three minutes left That gives every one of you 45 seconds You have Mr. Raw materials from the EU here one message. What would you like to do the EU? To support you what exactly do you need? I start with engVille the politician 45 seconds I'm not not yet a politician. I'm not being that when I don't know good mining I Think the main topic here is to coordinate the process to have it much faster done We have done it identification phase. We're into the selection phase So what we need it is the coordination and of course a new and united world to to to be producers and the Demanders versus then sustainable processes in the mining industry. Thank you Jonathan We are founding members of a association called the Global Battery Alliance together with the World Economic Forum that is already 130 members from the public and the private space and We believe that a corporation between the various entities taking responsibility in our own hands Avoiding building parallel value chains avoiding wrestlers resource nationalism But coming together in a joint effort in such a forum is the dominant strategy and we invite everyone to join our efforts Thank you a Philip well Let's be positive What is important in to be sustainable? With today's high prices We have the means to be sustainable and perhaps to see is because one of the problem I listened to what Peter said We more or less we continue in Europe to export our environmental problems and to think that other will be Will produce and I don't know in what condition it will be in the RC and so on so with today's prices we might be able to develop new Sustainable mines and I would say perhaps in Europe Metallurgy because we focused on me on mine. Remember that the real Good old entanglement we say in France so it my English doesn't come the real problem is very often on the Metallurgical side We didn't speak of titanium, but the problem is not the minerals. It's the making of titanium spawns for example Thank you so much. I think this was a great discussion Thank you everyone. I would like to conclude with a quotation of Winston Churchill Winston Churchill in 1914 when he was the first lord of the British admiralty Said we have to Change our whole fleet from coal to oil As we want to compete with the German Navy and then the Labour Party in Parliament said well that is insane because Then you make yourself dependent on countries like Persia or Today Azerbaijan and that we cannot accept and then Churchill went again to the microphone in the in the houses of houses of Commons and he said well, trust me energy security is about Diversity diversity and diversity alone, and I think we can Exactly say the same thing for critical raw materials We have to look for diversity and with the help of the EU and Peter We will be able to achieve it. Hopefully so. Thank you very much ladies and gentlemen and thank you for your Attendance all the best and good luck to you in with your projects