 Llew, you were muted I think. I am just referring to the cat. I am just trying to get the cat the pictures. Aaron you're going to say we're alive, are you? Yeah, I'll confirm we're alive. Thank you. I can confirm that we're now live, thank you. So good morning to members, officers and members of the public who are viewing this live stream of this meeting. Welcome to the meeting of South Cambridgeshire District Council cabinet. My name is Councillor Bridget Smith and I'm the leader of South Cambridgeshire District Council and I'm chair of the cabinet. For information of members of the public, the cabinet which is made up of myself and eight lead cabinet members is responsible for most of the council's services, for preparing a budget and for the council's major policies and strategies which are then considered by full council. So, most of the members of the cabinet are present, I won't introduce everybody because you'll be able to see their names attached to their photographs or their live streams. So, the normal procedure at cabinet is to take votes by affirmation and we will continue with this tradition. When we move to a vote on any item, I will ask if members agree with proposal and if any member wants to either vote against the proposal or to abstain, then a roll call will be taken and I'll then ask the cabinet members to speak into their microphones so their vote is clear to both cabinet and those watching this webcast and members should respond for against or abstain when their name is called. So, before we crack on can I just check that we have Councillor Grendel Chamberlain who's the chair of the scrutiny and overview committee presence please. Good morning leader, I am indeed with you. Thank you very much Councillor Chamberlain and thank you very much for joining us. So, moving on to our agenda, Jonathan, are there any apologies for absence please? Thank you leader, we have apologies from Councillor John Williams, the lead cabinet member for finance and Councillor Judith with the vice chair of the scrutiny and overview committee. Thank you very much and I will be standing in for John Williams who's kindly sent me his notes that he was going to present for the larger part of the agenda. So, do members have any declarations of interest please related to any items of business on this agenda? No, well if any item subsequently becomes apparent just raise it at that point please. So, on announcements, I would just like to announce that we are deeply saddened to learn of the death of Captain Sir Tom Moore and we shall be flying off flag at half mast at South Pembrokeshire district council to show our respect and his expression of us our sadness for the fact that he has died very tragically of COVID. So, moving on to the minutes of the previous meeting, members are asked to approve the minutes of the meeting which was held on the 18th of January only a moment ago and I moved the approval of those minutes as a correct record. I will just go through them page by page. So, they start on page one, page two, page three, page four, page five, and page six. So, if there's no issues I gather that Councillor Aidan Van Derwire is going to second the minutes. Yes. Thank you very much. So, do members agree to approve the minutes? Agree. Thank you. Does anyone wish to vote against the proposal? And does anyone wish to abstain? Nope. Thank you very much indeed. So, I believe we have on public questions. I believe that we've not received any public questions ahead of this meeting. So, I will now move on to the issues arising from the scrutiny and overview committee. Councillor Chamberlain, do you want to introduce this at this point or within the body of the agenda? I'm quite happy to introduce that now, Leader, if I may. Yeah, that's lovely. Thank you. I would particularly try to draw the attention of Cabinet to point seven, which relates to the changes that have been introduced to the public works loanboard scheme where the requirements have now placed another hurdle in ahead of us. And we will need to be extremely careful in order to comply with that and use the public works loan scheme. I think that was the biggest issue, Chair, Leader. The remainder of the report stands on its merit. The reports that we had, as you will see from point eight, that we thought the reports were very clear and concise. And we thanked the officers for so delivery. That's it for me, Leader. Thank you very much indeed, Councillor Chamberlain. So, these changes to the public works loan board, we will discuss later in the agenda. I assure you both myself and Cabinet have spent a considerable amount of time trying to battle our way through the lack of clarity about the public works loan board. But we have decided on recommendation of our officer that we will continue to rely on the public works loan board and, therefore, complying with these still unclear rules around it, is going to be very important indeed. But I thank Scrutiny for the attention that they have given to that. So, moving on to item number seven is actions taken under the Chief Executive. Delegated powers. There's only one here which relates to COVID-19. Members, you're asked to note the report. And moving on to some nice things. This is the doubling nature strategy, which I am going to introduce, and I believe Councillor Tumey Hawkins is going to second. So, the doubling nature vision came out of the work that was done by Natural Cambridgeshire and we're very, very grateful to them indeed for instigating what is actually a really very exciting vision and potentially a very, very useful tool for us. We have a strategy today, which I hope we are going to approve, which I think my right and say has to then go on to full council, I believe, just checking that. But this is really committing this council to doing big things and small things in order to address what is a very serious deficit in South Cambridgeshire in nature, in environmental capital. We have fewer trees than most other parts of the country. Biodiversity is in decline and we have a shortage of high quality natural space for people to access. So, we have communities who have serious difficulty in being able to walk or cycle or have other sorts of recreation really close to nature. So, I'm very excited about this and I think we are absolutely leading the way. So, I have already asked my communications team to send out our strategy far and wide because I think many other councils are going to be very interested in following our lead here. I think we are the first of the district councils in the district to adopt this doubling nature strategy. I think that's quite unique and I have talked at length about it at the Oxford Cambridge Arc and I am hopeful that the Oxford Cambridge Arc will also adopt a similar strategy on a much wider geography, which will have huge benefits for us as well. So, I think we are leading the way here. There's been a tremendous team effort going into this. So, we have officers from all over the council have put in considerable efforts. Siobhan Bellen, who's the development officer of the climate environment, has done a phenomenal amount of work. But then also, we've had the Greater Cambridge Shared Planning, Natural Environment and Planning Policy teams consisting of Jane Green, John Cannell, Daniel Weaver, Miriam Hill, Stuart Morris and Nancy Kimberley, heavily involved. And then our Air Quality Scientific Officer, Soraya Hashimi and our Housing Neighbourhood Services Manager, Jeff Clark, led by Trevor, obviously, taking control of the whole thing overall. So, a tremendous team effort across the whole council, which I think is going to deliver huge benefits. So, the last thing I just want to say is that it's the big things we can do through our local plan in doubling nature, but it's also the little things we can do and our three free trees, which turned out to be a terrible tongue twister, was one little thing we did, which actually triggered our communities to do more. So, we gave them three trees and quite a lot of them then went on and planted 10 trees or 30 trees. So, I would like to commit us now to running that initiative again just to save us all from the tongue twister. We'll do four three trees this time round. It's not a lot better, but it's a little bit better. And then, perhaps next year, it can be five free trees. It'll get easier when it gets to six, which is as far as saying it's concerned. So, the little things make a difference, but it's the impact that we will have as far as our spatial planning is concerned that will really, really make a difference to people's lives. So, Councillor Hawkins, do you want to say anything at this point? That's great, Bridget. Rory's wanting to contribute. I don't know if it's important. Okay, thank you. So, thank you very much, indeed. I haven't seen that. Rory McKenna, would you like to come in? Thank you, Leader. Just a very, very small point of clarification, and it's just to say the strategy. It doesn't go to full council. It's approved the strategy today at Cabinet today. That's really kind of you to remind me of that. Thank you very much indeed, Rory. So, we aren't the approval is today. So, that's really exciting. So, everything can launch as of now. Councillor Hawkins. Thank you very much, Leader. In many ways, I am pleased to second this report and this strategy that are recommending how we double nature, in particular because it is complementary work. It is complementary to the work that the Greater Cambridge Shed Planning Service is doing in mapping out opportunities for natural and semi-natural spaces as we develop our new local plans. The national policy, planning policy framework does require us to identify and pursue opportunities to secure biodiversity gains. So, we know we have a huge role to play in implementing this doubling nature strategy through our planning policies. And in response to that, you might all remember that one of our four key things for the new local plan is biodiversity and green spaces. And so, to underline the importance of this theme and for the first time in the history of this council, we included a call for green sites in our call for sites process. And I'm happy to say that we did have some submissions for that. And furthermore, we have commissioned work to provide us with evidence and detailed information about the natural capital that we have in South Cams, how much of it, where it is and opportunities to enhance and expand on them. And we have a report that we published back in November on that. We have also adopted a new Greater Cambridge Sustainable Design and Construction SPD. And we are now developing a new Biodiversity SPD. And finally, but not least, we know that water is a huge issue. And so, as part of our evidence base for the new local plan, we commissioned an integrated water management study last year. We published the interim report in November and it highlights that there is no capacity for abstraction from the chalk aquifers to supply additional growth levels. And major new water supply infrastructure will be required. And we're currently working with our partners, including Water Resources East, who are now planning regional solutions for this challenging situation. So Greater Cambridge Service, Planning Service, is looking forward to playing our part in doubling nature in the district through our current and new planning policies being worked on now. And I highly recommend this strategy to Cabinet. Thank you. Thank you very much indeed, Councillor Hawkins. Are there any Cabinet members who wish to speak on this item? Yes, I do. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Bandoir. Yes, so I think this is a really fantastic bit of work that's really set out well. I identify the problems we've got and detail what the situation is and sets out a strategy for coordinating all the work that can be done in addressing these issues and in improving nature across the district. And that coordination is absolutely vital because, as we know, as we've seen in so many cases, putting resources in disappointed efforts is just inefficient in effect. As a council, we interact with nature. We have an impact on nature in so many ways, directly as an organisation and through partnerships. And again, that is set out very well in this strategy document. One example is chalk streams. There's been a lot of concern about that. We have some significant roles in improving and protecting our chalk streams. Councillor Hawkins has just talked about some of those through the local plan policies, sort of water management and identifying the green infrastructure. And also, that has been a sort of ongoing long-term effort by our planning team to reintegrate the network into our planning policies. And also, I'll work with partners with the wildlife trust, with the wild crop trust, for example, water resources that can be built on a whole range of bodies that we can support again so that we can do things directly and we can help others, work with others. And for that to be most effective, a strategy like this over the top of it is really vital. So this is an excellent step forward. Thank you very much indeed, Councillor Bandoir. Councillor Mills, you want to come in. Thank you, Leader. So I just wanted to echo your compliments and thanks to Siobhan Mellon and the other members of the environment team for putting this comprehensive report together. It's something that I'm very pleased to see us all get behind. And there was just one other thing. I quite like the rhyme of three, three trees. So maybe we could keep that even if we want to give them for quietly. I'm not sure officers will forgive me, actually. So, and just to mention that this has spawned lots more tree planting. So our parish council here in Sallstone, for example, has gone to the Woodland Trust who are giving away hundreds of free trees. And it was our policy of three free trees that spawned that process. So long may it continue. Thank you. That's really nice to hear. Thank you. So if there aren't any more members of Cabinet who wish to speak, oh sorry, Councillor Lazer Smith, I'm sorry I didn't. Could you put it in the chat if you want to speak, please? It was. I'll message you as well. It wasn't after that. All right. Sorry. I've got so many screens of things to look at here. It's a bit crazy. Thank you. Councillor Hazel Smith. Yes, sorry, Leader. I was a bit slow off the mark. I'm too busy juggling screens myself. Yes, certainly Drone Milton that we've recently planted an orchard. So, yes, that has set minds to work for parish councils to think of areas that they could set aside for tree planting. I just needed to make the point that on page 13 of the strategy, 27 of the agenda, it talks here about working closely with our tenant participation group. Indeed, we are doing what we can within our council of states to make them greener and liaising with all the tenant representatives. That wording just needs to change because the tenant participation group is being replaced in April, May by the Housing Engagement Board as we are responding to the Grenfell report and changing the way that housing tenant engagement is happening. So, there will be elections in April for a new board. So, we should be using the new terms, possibly just talking about tenant groups are involved with this. That's lovely. Thank you. We will change the recommendation to include with minor amendments to it as well because you've picked up some other little typos as well, which I gather you've passed on to officers. So, we'll just get those sorted out before we publish this later today. Thank you very much indeed. So, coming on to councillors, councillor Heather Williams. Hello, good morning. Good morning. Yes, just as this isn't coming to council, I just wanted to wish you the best luck with this policy. I think it's a good strategy and taking things forward. So, had you come to council, you would have had, I'm sure, all of our support. Also, just what was referenced earlier, that tree planting as well, some of the work that parish councils are doing, is really helping with this. So, just to name one of mine, super modern, this winter have planted 84 new trees in their parish and they've got a long-term plan and have budgeted for it. So, I think between all of us and support we can give everybody its hope to be achieved and I look forward to see when we're trebling on nature. Thank you very much for that feedback. I mean, there's a very apt saying, isn't there, about mighty oaks from little acorns grow and I think what we're doing is planting forests from our little acorns. That's great. Thank you very much indeed. Councillor Delacy. Thank you very much, leader. Can I add my congratulations to the group that has produced this report? I have two small observations and then a more substantial question. The first one is that it doesn't look terribly green, if I may put it this way, to have so much green ink on the report and I have, all the way through my time on this council, tried to encourage us to use as little colour as possible and I think whole pages of green do look a little bit worrying. It also looks as if we've just pinched some of our pictures from shutter stock and I would encourage officers perhaps either to pay to have that removed or to find better pictures. I think that would improve the general visual effect that this report gives as it goes to the wider public, but I do support it wholeheartedly. More importantly, I'd like to come back to water. When we had a presentation from Cambridge Water on the development of the new water treatment process, I always get confused, is it Cambridge Water or is it Anglian Water? Whichever it is, anyway, Anglian. I raised the question of whether they would be producing at the end of the process potable water and then I said, well, could we put it back into the water supply to reduce the strain on the Cam River and the answer was the world isn't ready for that yet. Well, that's simply not true. The world is certainly ready in Australia. There's a huge amount of this and I hope we might encourage Anglian Water to think again about what they do with their effluent. I realise it's important to have decent flow downstream in the river, but as we get more and more water stress with more and more residents being encouraged to move into South Cambridgeshire or indeed to be born and grow up in South Cambridgeshire, I think this is one way that we could encourage sensible use of water and the reduction of the strain on our water services. Thank you, leader. So thank you very much, Councillor Delacy. So there's no intention to actually print this report. It's an e-report. I'm doing my very best today to run this meeting in a paperless way. I did have to print out some of Councillor John Williams' stuff, but we are doing our utmost to minimise paper. So there is no intention for the council to be printing this as such. And that's true really of just about everything that we can get away with. The only time we print stuff is when it's for people with no access to computers themselves. I'm sure comms will pick up your concerns about the pictures. I don't know if they're quite nice actually, but we'll certainly feed that back to them. Now on the issue of Anglian Water and the new waterworks and Pottable Water, it's not my impression that this has just been discounted. I think it is still absolutely in the mix for current discussion. And it's certainly something that we will continue to raise with them. As you say, it is theoretically possible, but as far as I can said, it's still on the agenda. I don't know if anybody has any more up-to-date information on that than I do. Probably not actually. OK. All right, so we will keep you posted on that, Councillor Delacy. Thank you very much. My pleasure. Thank you. Councillor Claire Dawnton. Thank you, leader. So taking account of what Councillor Delacy has just said and what yourself have said, leader, I would just like to commend the report for the layout, the clarity, the ease of reading it, and also to hope that both parish councils and schools will take it up, because I think it's pitched really at an appropriate level. So congratulations to people on that, and I hope it will get a wide readership. Thank you very much. So I've certainly written a big list of people I want this report sent out to, and I haven't put parish council on it, but you're absolutely right. So if it could be sent to parish councils as well, that would be marvellous. Thank you, and I'm sure they'd appreciate it. Thank you very much, Councillor Dawnton. So Councillor Anna Bradman, do you want to speak now? Yes, thank you. Thank you, leader. I just wanted to say I think it's an excellent report for all the reasons that Councillor Dawnton has described and also very nicely pitched, so thank you very much for that. I can almost offer the officers places where they could take photographs to replace the images on pages 8, 14, 25 and 31, and I also wanted to thank you very much for undertaking to continue with the three free trees policy, because I think that has really, what it's been important about is that people actually not only planted the trees, but want to look after them, and so I think that's really engendered a lovely community feeling and a recognition that trees are important and valuable. So four trees would it be even better however you describe them? And indeed, as Councillor Smith says in Milton, we've now got a small woodland supplied with whips from the Woodland Trust, so it's been a very good prod in the right direction. Thank you. That's lovely, and of course in a pandemic we can't be sending our officers out with cameras taking photographs, unfortunately they've got to make the best of what's available online, and I like them. I think the report looked great. I'm really pleased with what our officers have produced under difficult circumstances, we must say. So moving on, Councillor Nigel Cathcart next. Thank you. I fully support this. I think it's excellent. It's fairly high profile, which is even better, and I remember years ago when we had a conservation committee and we would discuss endlessly these sorts of subjects, and the problem is it was very difficult to actually get anything done. We actually were not able to really influence policy effectively. This is an opportunity where it goes absolutely to the heart of policy in fact. So I think it's excellent. I think your point about small things and big things is good. In fact, the big things is often the sum of the small things in fact, so we need to look at both. And certainly our natural environment has been damaged significantly many years, but there's an awful lot left. And also one of the key points is an awful lot can be enhanced and improved. And I think that's part of this strategy. So it's a high profile, the scope of improvement, and the point about water is excellent. One of the things we need to look at is the quality of our chalk streams and the chalk brooks, which we still have there, but they've been much diminished, huge scope for improvement. At one stage we had an ecology officer. We still do in a sense because the role is split up between various people, but it might be nice to consider having an ecology officer at some stage, maybe to steer these things through and come. So it's just a possibility for the future. But in general, excellent. Keep up with it. And I look forward to coordinating, which is excellent, and also working with local groups because this issue of coordination with all the various people doing similar things is very important, but well done. Thank you. Thank you very much indeed. So I think thinking back some years when we had an ecology officer who was just marvelous and who I still have lots of dealings within his in his new role, you know, that was because actually we didn't do a whole lot then. So it was, you know, one officer could do it. But actually our ambitions are so high now that there has to be a team approach to this. If it's all if it's all left to one person, then there's no way that we're going to be able to deliver on what we want to, which is why, you know, I read out that big list of people who have contributed to this, this one report. So I absolutely support this team, this team, this kind of whole council approach really to this, you know, the whole council is now involved. And you're quite right to say this isn't just about developing new stuff, new woods, new grasslands. It is absolutely about preserving what we have and enhancing what we have as well. So that's absolutely critical because we've got to kind of stop the rot as far as loss of nature is concerned. And we have to do that straight away. In fact, we'll, you know, we are some 20 years too late for some some areas. So, so your point that you picked that up. So thank you very much indeed. Councillor Jeff Harvey. Councillor Harvey is just a message to say that it's too noisy areas so he can't speak. So they're running. Oh, okay. That's fine. Well, I think I'll try and catch him later and see if I can answer his question then. So, are there any other questions? If there aren't, then I'd like to say something about the recommendation. Yes, thank you. I can't say anything. Yes. So, so, Councillor Hazel Smith raised an issue with the continent. I think there might be some sort of Tycho-e-type things that are there that they'd be dealing with. I would just suggest that the recommendation is modified slightly to add the words after it, subject to minor amendments by the lead officer in consultation with the leader to cover up any really minor Tychoes that we're talking about. Okay, thank you. So has that been captured by officers yet? Okay. So before we just wind up, I thank the team of officers at the beginning, but this wasn't just officers leading on this. We had huge member involvement. We ran two workshops, which a huge number of members participated in. So I would like to thank also all those members who have contributed to this piece of work because their input was invaluable, and we have considerable expertise within our councillor membership as well. But most importantly, Trevor Nicholls, who has co-ordinated all this and pulled it together and shown outstanding leadership, has actually churned this round in quite a short time frame for local government. So thank you very much, Trevor. So we're going to come to the recommendation as amended. Do all members agree with the proposal? Agreed. Thank you. Does anyone wish to vote against the proposal? And does anyone wish to abstain? Okay. So Cabinet, therefore agrees the proposal by affirmation. Lovely. Right. So moving on now to so many bits of paper. The Greater Cambridge Housing Strategy Annexes, which is a fairly meaty document. So councillor Hazel Smith is going to introduce this and councillor Aidan Van Derwire is going to second it. So if I can pass over to councillor Smith. Thank you Chairman. Leader. Yes. We adopted our Greater Cambridge Housing Strategy jointly with Cambridge City Council a couple of years ago. And these housing policies help us to bridge between the current local plan and the plan in development. They were anticipated in that housing strategy. And once they're adopted, they'll become material planning considerations. So that really does help us. They cover three issues that have recently emerged where our current policies need strengthening. The first one is built to rent. This was introduced in a review of the NPPF. And this policy should help us to fulfil our role in placemaking to ensure that built to rent, when it is built out, is implemented in a way that is sympathetic to our current policies. And that does include affordable housing and how we deal with that. The second is on clustering. And that brings in different rules on our new higher density sites and larger developments. Otherwise what's proposed is similar to our current guidelines. The third policy is on setting of affordable rents, which has had to change because of the raising of the local housing allowance by the Chancellor, which happened in April 2020 as a response to COVID. This has had unfortunate consequences, particularly for families that are just about managing. Some landlords have increased their rents accordingly because they know that the housing benefit will cover it. And so that has no consequences for people on full housing benefit where their rent is paid. But for people just above that level of income or who have hit the benefit cap possibly because they have a large family, it can make the rent unaffordable, pushing people on to benefits or into debt. So we're proposing to ask registered social landlords in the area, these are housing associations, to rein back on this increase in rents so these homes remain affordable and the policy gives a framework for doing this. I would ask that minor typos can be corrected at my discretion and these draft policies be approved to go out to public consultation now. The recommendation is to give authority to the lead member for housing to then give final approval after any minor amendments from the public consultation. Thank you very much indeed, Councillor Smith. Councillor Banderwire, do you want to speak at this point? No, it won't. We would say to support these changes which are very good. I mean especially the filter rent and the clustering ones are going to improve the way that we build out our new developments, speed them up, speed out the delivery of our new housing that we've given permission for and allocated in the level plan and make sure that they are as excellent places to live in. So I totally support this. Thank you very much. Yes, I mean, filter rent is interesting. It's a sort of new model for delivering rentable housing which we've had quite a few presentations on so it will be interesting to see that come forward, to see how successful it is in South Cambridge. Are there any questions from any cabinet member? No, okay, so then I'll come on to Councillor Claire Daunton. Thank you, leader. So it's just a point of detail on page 74 of the agenda, the section on clustering. So at the top, section 810, your distribution. I just wanted a clarification. This is to do with the over 55s. The remark there concerning a designated area for the over 55s. I presume that would be materially different from what we currently understand as sheltered housing. Councillor Hesol-Smith, we'd like to answer that. Yeah, I'm struggling to find this because I haven't got the full agenda printed. So which paragraph in the policy is it? Hazel, I can help with that. Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Yes, what we say here, Councillor Daunton, is that in most cases we'd expect all sorts of housing to be distributed across a development. However, in some cases, there'd be a need to have that, that those properties closer together in specialist housing scheme. We used over 55s an example, but it also could be a scheme of people with learning disabilities, for example, where they need to be close together to make sure that the relevant support is offered. So it's not saying that it's going to be a different sort of accommodation. It's just saying that in certain circumstances, there is an overriding need where clustering would be beneficial for the scheme, and this is just to allow that. Thank you, Mr Campbell. I'm actually very pleased to see it in there, have to say, I think it's a really important area of housing policy. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much indeed, Peter. So have we bring in Councillor Heather Williams now? Thank you, leader. I just wanted to clarify something around the clustering, because when we sit on planning committee, when we are looking at clustering, we're also talking about disbursement as well through the site, and I just wanted to make sure that these new changes weren't going to affect that. So I noticed the word disbursement's not in it. It just says it can't be in close proximity, and that if it's in phases, but we have seen sometimes it's not phased, it's a development. I believe it was, it might have been a sort of, that might be a copnam, I can't remember which, where it was either side of a road, and all the affordable housing was actually on one side of the road. So I'd be very keen if we could have disbursement through the site in there as well, but you might, the clarification might be that the planning policy still overrides this. So that was my observation. So I imagine it's planning policy. Shall I bring in Peter Campbell on that? Yes, Councillor Williams. The intention is exactly, as you state, to avoid concentrations of certain type, certain tenures, and to allow those to be spread. If the terminology that we normally use is disbursement, I think it's a good point that's well worth, we can bring that thing into the policy for absolute clarity. Thank you. Thank you, that's a helpful point. Thank you, Councillor Williams. Moving on to Councillor Delacy. Thank you very much, leader. Two perhaps rather small points. Firstly, on page 51 of the agenda, there is a rather odd graph, and along the bottom there are one bed, two bed, three bed, and four bed houses. I'm puzzled that it's a graph since there isn't such a thing as a 3.1 bed house. It's simply four distinct points, and I think the graph might actually confuse some people. It did me for a short while. Then on the annex, right at the very end of the report, page 87 of your agenda, page 33 of the report, ends on something of an anticlimax, and it looks as though something has been left out of the last sentence, which says therefore provision has been made within this policy for affordable rents to be charged at up to 80% of a median market rent, where it can be. Now, there could be just a full stop after that, or there could be some additional material. I'd just like to confirm that we're not losing anything at the end of that annex. Thank you very much, Chairman. Thank you. I suspect it's a missing full stop, but I'm going to come to Peter Campbell. Very last, very last sentence of the whole three. First of all, I agree entirely with the graphic. It's just a wrong type of graphic. It should be a bar graph probably. Secondly, I suspect it's probably just a missing full stop, but we'll go back to the regional drafting of this to check, and if there's something missing, we will insert. Thank you very much. So, Councillor Smith has got delegates of authority to make minor changes, and we'll replace the graph with something that's more meaningful. Thank you. Thank you very much, Leader. Councillor Neil Goff, did you want to come in? Yes, thank you. Thank you, Leader. I was just picking up on Councillor William's point, Heather Williams' point. That was actually Cotnum was the example, and that particular planning application, I recall, was a good example of the tension between this concept of clustering and this concept of dispersal, and getting that right is, I think, really important, and anything we can do in terms of clarification of what we're trying to achieve in that, I think, would be extremely useful. And I'll just point out that there was a very interesting article in The Guardian yesterday about nine elms. Now, this is an extreme example, but where affordable housing there in the nine elms development around Battersea Power Station is really created segregation by design, and that article pointed out the sort of second class feeling which some of the residents, the affordable housing, have with things like separate entrances and so forth. It's a really good example of when it goes wrong, what one's left with. So this is a really important policy and well done for the office putting it together. Thank you. That's very sad to hear about in Battersea. I think we are very good at this dispersal and integration in South Cambridge, and it's very important to us. So if there are no more questions, then moving on to the recommendation. So Cabinet's recommended to approve the draft policies relating to the bill to rent, clustering and distribution of affordable housing and affordable rents as an annex to the Greater Cambridge Housing Strategy subject to minor amendments, which will be authorised by Councillor Hazel Smith. Do you members agree with the proposal? Agree, agree, agree. Anyone wish to vote against? And anyone wish to abstain? Okay, so Cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation. Okay, so we're now moving on to the part of the agenda that's all to do with money. Now very sadly, Councillor John Williams is not well this morning and is in bed where I hope he stays until he is well. But he's very generously sent me copious notes, the longest of which is on this first item. But actually, since every time Councillor Williams speaks, it's very, very well worth listening to. I am going to read what he's sent me, which is what he would have been presenting. So we are now talking about, let me just get back to my agenda. So we're now on item 10, which starts at page 89. So that's a long, long item going on to page 142. And this is the general fund budget for 2021-22. Okay, so this time last year when we agreed the current revenue budget, we could not have imagined what this past year has thrown at us and how well our budget stood up to the changes put on it, particularly with regard to loss of income and unforeseen expenditure related to the coronavirus pandemic. So all credit must go to the head of finance and his team and the council's leadership team for this. We've had a very steady ship being steered over the last terrible year. So this councils at the heart of the business and social recovery in South Cambridgeshire. And this proposed general fund revenue budget for 2021-22 is about continuing to give support to South Cambridgeshire's residents and businesses to help them recover from the pandemic in the coming financial year. This proposed budget must also recognise the government's local government financial settlement for the coming financial year, which in the words of the local government association is dependent on council's increasing council tax bills. I'll say that again, it is dependent on council's increasing council tax bills. So due to the continued uncertainty going forward, this proposed budget has had to and continues to be work in progress right up to the full meeting of council on the 23rd of February when it's planned to be adopted. So there've been some revisions since you saw it at scrutiny and there may be some more minor adjustments made before it's recommended to full council. So if you go to paragraph 27, there's a table which helps you compare this proposed budget with the approved budget for the current 2020-21 financial year. Please disregard the thousands at the top of the columns. As you can see, we have a net short for in resources of around £2.4 million and a net reduction in spending of £2.6 million. And you'll see from Appendix A that the net expenditure for 2021-22 to be met from government grants, business grants and local taxpayers is estimated at nearly £22 million. We're looking at council taxpayers meeting £10 million of this net expenditure with a £10 a week increase for the average Bandy property bringing its annual council tax bill to £155.31 and this is fully explained in paragraphs 46 and 48. But this will only in part offset the estimated reduction in business rates and also the losses in other government grants. Nevertheless, the council tax bill from South Cambridge and District Council will continue to be in the lowest 25% of all district council taxes. We have a local council tax support scheme for those on low incomes and other categories such as carers as well as having discretionary powers to help council taxpayers. So we're really proud of our revs and bends team, revenue and benefits teams efforts which have kept payment defaults lower than expected. So thank you to them. So the local council tax collection rate has held up and we thank council taxpayers for maintaining their payments. Despite the uncertainty of the economic situation we expect given our experience so far that this will continue into the new financial year. So not to have increased council tax by a modest amount would have still meant a funding gap causing cuts to front line services which were just not prepared to do such as our new business support and development team which actually has been a lifeline to local entrepreneurs. But what we have seen is a hit on business rate income and we have concern that the long term effects of the pandemic in terms of business failures and property may impact on the business rate growth that we've seen to date. And as you can see from paragraph 40 we are continuing with the pooling arrangement we have with neighbouring councils and the county councils which is permitted under the business rent retention scheme which we estimate will deliver an additional one million pounds and more for us which is very welcome in the current circumstances. We can also say that against this background of less income from business rates and grants the council's not just relying on more money from taxpayers. To do our bit we've embarked on an ambitious four-year plan to transform council service quality better realign our financial resources the business plan priorities and improve customer service. And as you can see this has achieved a reduction in net expenditure compared to this financial year. The financial impact of this can be seen from the table in paragraph 33. The details can be found in Appendix D and we're afraid the gremlins have got into the theme two table since scrutiny and line six has somehow disappeared. This is a mistake and discontinuing the council zero three four telephone number is still on the budget. So this one area where we've made further revisions from the paper presented scrutiny in particular in business growth where we have reappraised and reprofiled our commercial income and capital charges not only because of the pandemic but also from changes to the criteria for a loan from the public works loan board which our council chamber loan referenced in his introduction. So part of this has been to reappraise our relationship with our shared service partnership arrangements. This year we introduced a recharge model to ensure that we receive value for money and are not subsidising services in other council areas and this was a long standing concern of ours when in opposition to the previous administration. So due to the continuing financial pressure on the council this budget should be seen within the medium term financial strategy and its requirement to include around five million pounds worth of savings during the next four years on top of the 2.2 million pounds in savings already identified for that four year period. Other grants the council tap so there's other grants the council tap sorry the council currently receives such as the new homes bonus and rural services grant are expected to be phased out so things are going to get tougher not easier. So as to helping our communities and businesses fight back against the pandemic we estimate that the cost of dealing with the pandemic so far has been approximately 2.35 million pounds and this is mainly due to increased spending on PPE additional staff members to help in several areas such as community response processing business grants and council tax support and new software for administering all these grants and today the council has received 1.9 million pounds in government grants to help it deal with the increased spending due to coronavirus but there's obviously a gap if needed this work will continue into the next financial year and possibly thereafter so we have to set aside a revenue contingency of a quarter of a million pounds and as a result of a proposal by the scrutiny and overview committee councillor Walker was pleased councillor Williams was pleased to incorporate into the general fund budget a two year post for a welfare and visiting advisor to support enhance the work of the housing benefit team during this difficult time for our residents and I thank scrutiny and overview for their input there. The government's also making good making good most of the loss of income from fees such as planning and licensing charges it's also promised it will make good up to 70% of council tax loss due to the pandemic although we've yet to be told what the formula is for this so the direct impact of COVID-19 on our costs in this financial year should be broadly neutral and should not be problematic for the coming year so as we've reported before South Cambridgeshire is in a sound financial position and this proposed budget gives us confidence to proceed into the next financial year to support a dynamic council with a positive agenda so I thank councillor John Williams for that because I couldn't have done something quite quite so detailed so I think councillor Peter McDonald is going to second this do you wish to speak now councillor McDonald no I'd simply like to second and support the submission thank you all right thank you very much indeed so I do we have any others anyone else from cabinet wishing to ask any questions about this no and any other councillors wishing to ask questions councillor Delacy I believe thank you leader this is a general point about all of these budgetary issues that is items 11 to 15 in the agenda they are all described as key decisions which seems to me to make sense but at the beginning of each one it says page 89 for example paragraph 2 here this is not a key decision and I think that ought to be clarified for each of these items as I say 11 to 15 thank you thank you all right could I bring Roryan please to tell us what should be going on there yeah so later because these are decisions which can be taken by the cabinet and have to be taken by full council they are in fact not key decisions because key decisions only relate to decisions taken by the executive so whilst it might seem a bit perverse to say they're not key decisions given the decisions being taken because they're being taken by council as well they're technically not classified as a key decision okay I think I understood that councillor Delacy did you understand it yeah I think so they shouldn't be regarded as key decisions in the agenda itself them the first couple of pages of this agenda but they will be so described when they come to council later on this month I assume Rory well not not necessarily actually because it's only as I say because it's the decisions being taken by by full council they wouldn't necessarily be described as key decisions it's only when the cabinet alone takes the decision that it would be referenced as a key decision I think I understand now thank you leader thank you Rory okay have we any other questions on this okay now look the recommendations are enormous they cover page 89 and 90 so I'm not going to read them all out so we will unless councillor Macdonald has anything else he wants to add in summing up I so I thank Peter Maddox and his team for all the work they've done on this and on all the subsequent papers I know that they have they have all burned the midnight oil you know things have been financially thanks to the pandemic things changed sometimes on an hourly basis and I think we have shown ourselves to be incredibly responsive to you know stuff that's thrown to us thrown at us hour by hour which all results in considerable workload so you know we would not be in the good place we are in without Peter's leadership and without his his team's diligence and hard work so thank you very much indeed so moving to the recommendations um let's get back to my my script um something funny has happened with my script here okay so we are recommended to approve the recommendations as presented on page 89 and 90 do you members agree with the proposal agree agreed does anyone wish to vote against and does anyone wish to abstain okay so cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation thank you very much indeed um right so moving moving on uh to item 11 on page 143 which is the housing revenue account and I'm going to find my notes and I believe councillor Hazel Smith is going to second this so so councillor that John Williams has very kindly provided a presentation on this as well not as long as the last one you'll be glad to know so firstly we should remind you that the housing revenue account has to be ring of fence from the general fund of the council in other words broadly speaking we cannot subsidise council housing from local taxation and the resource available from investing in our housing is dependent upon the income streams available to the housing revenue account so the housing revenue account budget continues to be set in the context of a 30 year business plan and we must also remember that the housing revenue account has to support a housing debt of 205 million pounds which are the loans from the public works loan board to enable us to retain all of our council rents from the government and some years ago uh before my uh well I was a opposition councillor um our our tenants voted on whether they wanted to stay with the council or whether they wanted to um go elsewhere but very gratifyingly they decided they liked the council as their landlord so we estimate the HRA balance at the end of this financial year will be just over two and a half million pounds and while this is adequate for HRA purposes it would not be prudent to let it fall much below that figure and Appendix B shows how we're addressing this going forward there's therefore no alternative to increasing council rent levels if we are to maintain our drive to improve the customer service to our tenants and grow our social housing stock and we have a lot of people on our housing list as do all councils and growing our housing stock is absolutely vital in order to allow us to to provide homes for people so rents will increase by 1.5% which is in line with government policy and this means that the average social rent will increase to 106 pounds and two pence per week and in line with rent legislation our affordable rents will continue to be no more than 80% of the market rent at the time of writing the report the average affordable rent was 148 pounds and 18 pence so we're acutely aware that some of our residents are facing financial problems and financial 21 sorry paragraph sorry somebody thank you paragraph 21 explains that because of the pandemic current council rent arrears have increased significantly in percentage terms however the introduction of the new orchard housing management system should allow for targeted review of tenants arrears and collections and we anticipate that this position will improve as we emerge from the pandemic the hra budget also includes support for tenants some of whom are receiving your universal credit as the council house building program we have external funding from section 106 commuted sums retained right to buy receipts and how we utilise these funds is identified in the housing capital investment plan councillor hazel smith lead cabinet member for housing can elaborate further on this so we therefore ask you to support this hra budget which delivers us the financial base to support our ambitious building program and the service that is fit for the council tenants of south cambrishan district council so councillor hazel smith would you like to speak at this point so i can't it can't hear you hazel thank you leader um yes just just to say that um this went to scrutiny in january and um there were a few comments there about it the one part which was not looked at by scrutiny um was the service charges table which is an appendix d um and um this this shows that um if you look at the penultimate column there um most most of our charges are actually staying flat and um there is just um a slight increase in some of them so um i don't think i have anything else to say i'd just like to thank the um housing uh staff um who deal deal in in the finance department with with the housing revenue account for putting this together thank you very much indeed um are there any questions from members of cabinet any questions from councillors okay fine so again i'm not going to read out all the recommendations because there's lots of them and they're on page 143 and a page 144 uh so i'm going to see it ask now if um cabinet agree with the proposal agree agree agree thank you any does anyone wish to vote against the proposal and does anyone wish to abstain okay thank you so cabinet therefore agrees the proposals by affirmation and moving on to item 12 which is the capital investment programme at page 173 and again i've got a short note from councillor williams here uh and so this item is going to be seconded i think by councillor bill handley okay thank you so our capital programme is a rolling five-year programme and in determining the capital programme we must comply with the regulations relating to the prudential framework for capital finance in the light of the impact of COVID-19 pandemic and the change to the PWLB public works loan board loan rules we've had to re-phase our capital programme significantly and the table in paragraph 16 summarises the revised programme the details of which can be found in appendix a and the re-phasing of the capital programme can be found in the table in paragraph 26 um so so uh so piece of matters i'm sorry i haven't been inviting you in to comment which i had had intended to do are you feeling very sad that i haven't i haven't done that we seem to be we seem to be managing but is there anything you want to add on this because this has been quite complex i'm happy to comment on this one um so um as regards as regards this report there were three main areas of re-profiling as councillor Smith said the main area is in relation to the investment strategy and we had planned to spend 340 million over a period up to the end of 2024 given the PWLB consultation response we believe it will take longer to spend that money and we may have issues in actually spending all of that money but clearly as each project comes forward it will be considered by members on its merits and whether it meets the PWLB criteria so we've re-profiled that um to the end of 2026 now on the basis of the rule that we think it will take longer to spend that money because of what's happened um the other two areas of re-profile relate to the south cambridge uh um the greening project that were delays due to covid earlier this year it is now kicking off as we speak but clearly the level of spend we had expected in this year will now occur in 2021 and similarly there were some works to the hall um at both ends of the hall there's some glass curtain walling that's in need of replacement uh this was due to be done in the final quarter of this year but again this is going to slip into the first quarter of next year and apart from that um the program is broadly in line with what was agreed at cabinet on the 7th of december lovely thank you very much beta yeah i mean covid is it's kind of interfering with everything isn't it um councillor handley do you want to speak on this i um no except to say i'm i'm fully behind the recommendation happy to second it right thank you very much indeed um so i'll just get up the recommendations i'm scrutiny looked at it i don't know if you want to uh yes i think i think um council chamber and you well you is there anything additional you'd like to say councillor chamber in on this no the report stands on its own uh leader and it's a good report thank you thank you very much indeed so i'm just fighting with my paperless my paperless pack here right got it good thank you very much indeed right are there any questions from members of cabinet and any questions from councillors okay in which case we'll move to the recommendation on page 173 uh so cabinet's requested to consider the report and if satisfied to recommend to full council the revised capital program aligned outlined at appendix a so do members agree with the proposal agree agree and does anyone wish to vote against the proposal and does anyone wish to abstain okay so cabinet therefore agrees the proposal by affirmation so we now move on to item 13 uh which is the treasury management strategy and i'll i'll just introduce this from councillor williams notes and then i will bring you in mr maddux as well um so treasury every year um we now review a suite of documents in accordance with best practice uh and to ensure we keep up to date with the charted institute of public finance and accountancy rules so this year's update of the treasury management strategy is especially important because it takes into account the changes around the borrowing rules for the public works loan board which came into effect on the 26th of November 2020 to enable you to quickly see the changes that we are that are being made to the treasury management strategy these are in red ink now although this is an opportunity to review the whole document uh we'll just focus on those changes in in red so you'll see that as well as changes to the pwlb borrowing rules we also should have regard as responsible investors to sit for environmental social and governance considerations when monitoring performance so although we expect that you may your your main concern will be with the changes the pwlb borrowing rules these are these are explained in paragraph 8.12 of the treasury management strategy document so basically if we are to borrow from the pwlb our 151 officer mr maddux has to give assurance that not only are we buying for reasons other than primarily for yield but also no other commercial asset is being bought for this reason by whatever means including from our own reserves for the following three years so you know this is this is pretty significant stuff fortunately with an eye to the possibility that government would restrict in some way commercial purchases our investment strategy which breaks investments into three streams investment types enables us to meet the new pwlb rules and by not pursuing stream one investment to be confident that we can take on board these new rules going forward so we have been well well prepared for this fortunately so the new rules are not retrospective and do not affect existing rules such as that to ermine street but new but new loans to it will be and of course this administration has repurposed ermine street so this is now part of our housing strategy helping us to deliver decent homes that are affordable to live in for those living and working in our drive to work area and as was mentioned in the introduction to item item 10 of our medium term financial strategy this requires us to find over five million pounds over the coming four years and some of this is to be found from new investments so for this reason we've we've given this so for the so for these reasons the reasons given excuse me this continues to be achievable we're in the process of amending our investment strategy accordingly and this will come to you in due course and you'll also see from paragraph 10.3 that we also have to consider negative interest rates oh oh joy something else to contend with um so this is going to be seconded by councillor Brian Mills councillor Mills would you like to speak thank you um well first of all i'd like to just applaud councillor Williams councillor John Williams efforts with all of this and to provide you with all the notes that you've uh been doing today um i think the um the ones the only thing i'd like to add to those comments was some pleasure in seeing that we are adding environmental social and governance considerations um and i think this is um a further direction of travel um which has included our recent conversations about disinvesting from inappropriate investments if if they were found to be so so i'm happy to otherwise support that and thank Peter Maddock again for his and John Williams work and their team's work thank you thank you uh Peter Maddock would you like to um add anything to what's been said um i i don't think so you've explained uh the PWLB rules the other thing i would say is um i'm trying to talk to the PWLB together a little bit more clarity around how they're actually going to apply in practice uh and obviously um it's quite early days and i think there's still a little bit of uncertainty about how this is going to pan out in reality thank you yes i know the LGA has you know been trying to get clarity over it and it's very it's very irritating that you know two months down the line it's still not absolutely absolutely clear but thank you very much and thank you for um highlighting the uh the changes in red it does i get terribly fed up when i see papers at other places not not south cams other places where you can't do you can't follow the track changes makes life very hard so much appreciated and the clarity of the reporting is much appreciated as well um so are there any other questions from members of cabinet okay so i have councillor Anna Bradlam would like to ask a question thank you very much leader um i i would just echo your comments about making changes clear it's so much easier to understand and also to thank councillor John Williams for um keeping such a steady hand on our uh corporate rudder uh however i just wanted to say that when we were at scrutiny and overview committee we did look at the diagram that is on page 201 of the agenda sorry 201 of the agenda and it's after paragraph 10.4 and we sort of questioned the merit of that figure because it's um doesn't really tell us very much and we we suggested it ought to be taken out if i thought we'd recommended it ought to be taken out because it doesn't really it just says yes that's what we'd like to obviously we want investment strategy to go up but it's not a very informative diagram we suggested it should come out i thought well i mean i think i think it is just kind of indicative of what on what our aspirations are really i mean it's not a you know it's it's a it's a visual rather than a proper proper diagram um obviously the whole point of an investment strategy is that uh it's it sees growth um so i'm not i don't know i mean i don't personally personally have any issue with it but i think what we'll do is we'll let um Mr Maddl discuss it with councillor Williams when he's feeling better if if the cabinet is minded to leave it in um it has a kind of rustic look because it looks a bit like it's a slightly rustic okay well look we'll take we'll take that away with you yes and i'll we'll leave it up to councillor Williams uh what what he does with it okay um okay so are there any other questions okay so move on to the recommendations by rolling back again okay so the recommendations are on a page 185 cabinets requested to consider the report and is satisfied to recommend to council the updated treasury management strategy attached to the appendix aid the report which sets out the policy framework for the council's treasury management activity including one the treasury management policy statement two minimum revenue provision policy and three treasury indicators uh so uh do members agree with the proposal anyone wish to vote against and anyone wish to abstain okay so cabinet therefore agrees the proposal by affirmation so moving on to the capital strategy which is at page 227 to 246 so the capital strategy was revised to take into account uh the PWLB rule changes and changes to the SIPFA guidelines um so i think that uh Peter Maddox would you want to say anything more about this just to say um the capital strategy was a requirement that was reintroduced three or four years ago by SIPFA it's basically an overarching document that delvins um our capital our capital program and our capital spend and as uh councillor Smith alluded to um it's also affected by the change to PWLB rules apart from that nothing to do with that yes okay okay thank you very much indeed um and i think councillor Peter McDonald is seconding this uh Peter do you want to add anything here um not really just to um a second uh the recommendations and uh support the um submission from John Williams and Peter Maddox thank you very much and i see the uh the changes are highlighted in red again very helpfully uh councillor Hazel Smith yes just just one small point on this um leader um on page 235 at the very bottom there um under existing housing there's a suggestion that we're doing less in energy conservation in existing council houses which is not true and i think that last sentence really needs to come out i believe that it was put in about five years ago when the council house rents were being decreased by one percent each year um that program um which was brought in by the government actually finished um and we had our first increase in April 2020 so there is no longer any reduction in rental income in fact it goes up every year so i think it's just um something that's a hangover from um a previous report thank you very much um so uh so Maddox is that it's it's okay to incorporate that of course yeah thanks for that that's fine do we do we need to say subject to minor amendments at the end of the recommendation yeah yeah i think so yeah if we just say that okay fine thank you so the recommendation is so um it's okay thank you peter uh so anyone else any other questions from councillors okay so the recommendation is at page 185 uh we're asked to request requested to consider the port and is satisfied recommend to council the updated treasury management strategy oh hang on i'm on the wrong one page 227 thank you thank you Anna managed managed so far okay so page 227 right the cabinet's requested to consider the report and if satisfied recommend to full council one the updated capital strategy attached to the appendix a to the report which sets out the policy framework for the development management and monitoring of capital investments and two credential indicators um subject to minor minor amendments delegated to mr Maddox and councillor williams so um if there's no one else wishes to speak do members agree with proposal thank you anyone wish to vote against and anyone wish to abstain nope okay so cabinet therefore agrees the proposal by affirmation and we come on to our last item which the local council tax support which is at page 247 um which i shall get up uh so i gather that this is the annual annual review to update um update this uh the local council tax support in line with the consumer price index um mr Maddox would you like to um give any more detail or is it quite straightforward just to say that um we're proposing to continue with the with the current scheme which are really well yeah just subject to an increase in in cpi thank you thank you very much indeed yes i think we've we've run this this is the third year was it we've run this scheme and it seems to um it seems to work work very well so we're pleased with that uh and um councillor smith is going to uh second this do you want to talk speak on this councillor smith yes just to say that um it's something that we have to review every year and um i'm pleased that that um it's holding up and uh as as the report says it may need some revision next year but we don't know yet um but uh yes i think it's it's a very good scheme yes i'm happy to second this thank you very much um would any members of cabinet like to speak on this no i have councillor Anna Bradman would like to come in thank you leader um i just want to say thank you for continuing with this localised council tax support um i say that because uh a local case came to my attention uh in the village um and uh where where it was thought that somebody might be in difficulty and uh it transpired on investigation from one of our benefits officers uh that the person in question was um benefiting from this localised council tax support which made that made an enormous difference to what to their life and um i just wanted to say thank you very much for continuing to do this because it you know it's for us it's a you know a financial decision but for individual people it makes such a difference uh into into their day to day money in their in their pocket so thank you very much indeed thank you very much for pointing that out and that's that's that's the absolute point whole point point of this and it can be you know it's a lifesaver really for for some people so you know really really important uh that we continue with it um so in the absence of anybody else wishing to speak um the cabinet's recommended to this cabinet recommends to council um at the meeting that will take place on the 23rd of February 2021 the adoption of option one comprising the lcts income ban scheme currently in operation with an upgrade rating of calculation figures in line with the consumer price index so do members agree with the proposal agree agreed thank you anyone wish to vote against and anyone wish to abstain okay so the cabinet therefore agrees the proposal of affirmation um so just before i give the date on the next meeting i i meant um during consideration of item number nine the greater cambridge housing strategies at next to uh thank both peter cambell and julie fletcher for a considerable amount of work they did my apologies for forgetting to do that um but actually it's a really really complex piece of work and again i'm sure that you know they have burned the midnight oil as well on this so if they're no longer in the meeting if somebody would pass on my thanks to them i'd be very grateful if they're not if they're not hearing it but certainly minute it uh so thank you very much indeed uh to um cabinet and to all members and officers who participated uh the next meeting of cabinet is scheduled to take place on monday the 22nd of march 2021 at 10 am uh so if we could end the livestream there please