 Yeah, I'm sorry I'm running a few minutes late, I'm just always, you know, first thing in the morning with the computer, this is always my first meeting and it's never happy. I'm gonna restart it real quick, but what we do is we do a go around, are we waiting for anyone else? So I'm telling it open balance here, yeah, but I've go around of how you're doing and any, any info to share? Well, I'll start just by reminding us all that the police review committee draft report is accessible online and in paper copies in a few places, ColoGurard Library, City Hall, Town Clerk and another way. And we're inviting comments from the public. There's a form for that. There's always a form for that, right? And it's also available online and at paper, paper versions of the same places and comments are through the 18th of this month. The committee will meet again late in the month and the plan is to issue the final version or present the final version to the city council on October 8th. Is that the right date, Lauren? Yeah, every meeting is that week, that sounds right. So, so it's your chance. I mean, we talked last time about responding as a committee and we ruled that out, but I encourage you all to the rest of you who are not on the committee already to take the opportunity to make comments. I just, I think we decided that we were not going to write comments as a committee, but that Jeremy and I volunteered for to write comments as individuals and anyone else wants to. That seems great. Is that all sound right? Is that the decision that we made? Well, the form itself is an open-ended form. It doesn't, it's not, you know, how do you, you know, do you like this? Yes, no, maybe it's really just inviting comments, not and we'll see what happens. I can go next morning, everyone. I just started teaching last week and I that's why I need to leave the meeting around nine 10. I hope it's OK for everyone. Until next semester, I will be teaching Monday, Wednesday, Friday from 10 to 2 p.m. So I will be attending our meetings briefly next semester, which is, I think, we finish end of them at the end of the November. I will move to Tuesday. Thursdays for my teaching. So I will be attending our meetings like a full full time. And in addition to teaching, I will see our diversity, equity, inclusion, vice president today. And I want to mention our work. Maybe I don't know. Maybe we can do something together, but I am really looking forward learning from her. She is very experienced and it is for the first time for our college, too. We have the person and it will be, I think, very nice journey for all of us. And that's all from me. Oh, nice to see you all. I can check in. Good morning, everybody feels like it's been a while. I guess it's a long summer, but a short summer. I'm going to keep swimming in the river until I can't any longer. I was out there this weekend. I'm OK. Yeah. You know, just trying to take the fall and stride and all the ridiculousness that swirls around our world. So it's early and I need more coffee. I'll do it for tonight today. It'll be a first night today. Thanks. I can check in. OK, Cameron, freaking cough. Yeah, I'm doing fine, too. We've just been in the mostly like back to school mode around our house, which was interrupted with a quick quarantine last week of one of them already. But it's going to be an interesting school year. So it's like somehow we have a much more transmissible strain and much more lax rules around all of it. So very predictably not going great. We'll see. So anyway, all that going on. And then I'm excited as part of today's conversation. We've got our strategic planning today. A city council, which Cameron runs awesomely. So so anyway, just want to make sure that that's part of our conversation of anything that we would want to make sure for I would love to bring forward whatever, you know, this would like me to. Obviously, I've already got the like extending our equity work contract, but if there's anything else, would love to hear from you all. I think that was going to be my sort of check into it's Cameron, Peter Meyer, staff support for this committee. And we do have our strategic planning beginning tonight. So it's our workshop. So what we're doing is we're asking council to sort of think of their big picture goals for the next year. They have nine goals that they've identified over the years, just checking in to make sure that those still feel right. And then after that, we get through that process, we're going to ask them to sort of come up with the the strategies to accomplish that so that we can then fit our work that we're already doing towards those strategies and goals and any new projects that they want to to bring forward. So that's really going to help us come budget time. We've moved to this normally in the past. Strategic planning was done in the spring here, but that doesn't really help our budget process, which starts in the fall. So we're really trying to align their priorities with our budget creation. So I'm really excited about how this year is going to go. But an an equitable community is one of the goals. I'm saying it wrong because it is also I agree with Jeremy very early and I need coffee. But, you know, this, like Lauren said, she's going to bring forward the street like this work that are our equity report. And I think that that's really important and is on my list for sure. As an initiative to bring forward the council to prioritize. So this is only day one of like a pretty long process. Honestly, what is going to happen is council is going to say their goals and their strategies, and then we're going to come back as staff and sort of present them a plan that gets us to those as much as we can. Right. And then there'll be time for public discussion and feedback. So I'd love to bring that to y'all, at least the parts that have to do with equity and inclusion for feedback and assistance, honestly. So I'd love to put that on the next this next meeting agenda for y'all to talk about a little bit if that would be helpful for y'all. Or so I know it would be helpful for me as staff to hear from y'all get feedback about it. Cool. Thank you. And yeah, I feel like we just have a meeting and yeah, we have the presentation back to city council and it's been like three weeks since I was like, how the heck is it end of summer already? So I feel all those things. And and I'm wondering if before we get into the rest of our agenda, which is just looking at the report back from other city committees, created this first presentation and proactive educational and events, funds and budget items for that proactive work and then other business setting up the agenda, I mean, that's all this stuff. I'm wondering before going into that, if we can just kind of address the talent thing and if we want to schedule a new time, like we scheduled this 30 to 10 time because I think it was like overall, this is the time that works for this crew. And we recognize it's not a very equitable time anyway. And so if we wanted to like find a time that works for everyone overall, I feel like this is something that's easier to do in person than on doodle polls by email. But does any does that sound OK to do that right now on the agenda? And so looking kind of two weeks out, where's my calendar here? Just like, you know, it's typically like every two weeks, but obviously that can be discussed too. Like, it's like the week of the 20th doesn't really propose a time that will like typically work for them. Yeah, I want to tell something. My schedule will change after December. So if you are OK, me attending like 40 minutes, 50 minutes to our meetings until then OK, OK with me. So we don't have to play with the time, but it's up to you. You know, I'm OK, I can read the meeting notes. I'm OK attending less than I'm supposed to. But I just want to check with the rules if it works with the comedy or if it is OK with the, you know, city rules and everything. OK, OK, so I will be available after November this time anyway. So OK, so we don't need to read us. I feel like we've been having shorter meetings anyway just because it's been like less like the tangible steps and stuff. Do we want to just do like plan on doing an hour too? Does that make sense? Like plan for an hour meeting a 30 to 9 30. Just off screen. Yeah, then I can. Yeah, because it takes half an hour to drive Norwich. OK, thanks. Unless anyone does want to propose a time, please. You can always change those things. Yeah. I know, because I'm like, December, that's so far away, but it's like, you know, only a handful of meetings. Yes. So OK. So we're talking about meeting the 22nd. Is that as planned? Is that right? That's what I heard from a 30 to 9 30. OK. Yeah, and then it would be like October 6. Is that October 6 is my birthday. Yay. I will be four to four. That'd be very early birthday. Of course, yeah. My my birthday is on the third and I'll be seventy seven. So OK, two seven. OK, I will put you on your real quick. You said the third, Michael. Yes, but I'm writing all these down, you see. I know, like noted. OK, I'm yeah. Any other like report backs from city committees? Is this the time to talk more about the strategic like where things can now and what the steps are there or anything else from the police review committee or any other city committees? This is I just wanted to share. I forgot to mention we appointed a new city counselor last week. Oh, yeah. So I can try to put in the chat. But I have her letter up. So it's a woman named Jennifer Morton. She's a 50 year old Anishinaabe woman. She's a social worker, sun dancer. She part of her application was applying, wanting to bring better representation for the BIPOC community and needs of her community into city government. She served as a commissioner on the Vermont State Commission on Native American Affairs, and she works on like homelessness and other things. So she's got a really interesting background and resume. So she'll be starting tonight with us. So anyway, I would repeat her name, please. Jennifer Morton. OK, I can put. I can. I was trying to get her just a letter in case anyone's interested, not really working, but so exciting. And anything else on strategic planning? So I'm not sure. I think I'll know a lot more and we'll be able to fill you in a lot more in our next meeting to tell you sort of what council discussed. It's going to be a really, hopefully a cool workshop. I finalized my presentation yesterday and it's 76 slides. So I'm so sorry, Lauren, so sorry. But really a lot of what the bulk of it is really helping teach our new council member what this plan is, how we how we implement it, what we do to track it. So I'm not sure where we are now. I feel very confident about I presented the year end of the twenty twenty one twenty or the yeah. I guess it was twenty twenty twenty one strategic plan. And y'alls you the the goals that I set out for myself to support y'all and to get the equity assessment done for the city was accomplished. And I feel really good about that. So that's the thing that we can like put a feather in our cap. We did step one. Now it's time to do more work. What does that mean? Right. So that's really the strategic initiative that I'll be putting forward for D.I. Right. And for better or for worse, I'm sort of the staff champion for that. So that's my responsibility. But I think that really I hope drives home how important this is to us is that we were putting this in the city manager's office and it's our job to get it done. And to continue continue that work. So you know, I've been taking trainings outside of work on D.I. initiatives and I'm really hoping to to get a lot to bring back to Montpelier. So that's exciting. The strategic planning workshop will be really good. If you guys are interested in watching it, Orca will be streaming it. I have no idea how long tonight's going to go. But it'll be fun. Cool. Anything on the police review committee, too, Michael? Say that again. Anything else of the police review committee? Yeah, I know the report came out last week and like. As I said, there are a bunch of recommendations. They are summarized at the beginning of the report and then given in more detail at this the last section of the report. So that's that's where the meat of the meat of it is. The rest of it is showing what how we did it and who we are and things like that. But the the recommendations are I've forgotten how many we we made that that's where we stand. And we recognize that there are more things to be done. And so that's that all I guess that's one of the last things also is what what the city council is going to do is it going to create a new committee, which is one of the recommendations or can try to make this one a standing day. Because they come this committee was supposed to to be finished at the end of June. But but at any rate, I think by October, we'll think that that's we've done our work and we are ready to decide depending upon what the city council decides to do. Just one other thing like that this group might find interesting in the report. There's a pretty lengthy section on the public outreach that was done. So obviously we had done, you know, worked with creative discourse on some pieces of it, but also had done outreach to like sex workers and groups that work with victims of domestic violence and like a bunch of people that, you know, when part of our charge like how are we getting voices that are often not part of city government processes? Like there was a pretty robust and like I think unique from any process I've been a part of, I guess kind of outreach and talking to a bunch of people. So it might just be interesting to look through that. Like and just the I mean, it was a very wide variety of perspectives that were brought into that and, you know, everything from people who are like, I've had like an excellent experience working with a Montpelier police department to like any police interactions just period. I have, you know, problems with. So it was like the entire gamut of perspectives even from people, you know, people and groups of people. I wouldn't have necessarily anticipated but the feedback. So it was pretty interesting to, to see. So check out to that section of the report as well. Great. And dovetails nicely to our next and like the big chunk of our meeting today. So after our last meeting, we had the presentation from Keisha and Tabitha and Sue. Like really, I thought like long in-depth presentation to city council really going through their recommendations and answering questions and just like hearing thoughts and feelings and feedback and reactions. And so I guess of us like starting out, wanting to think about like that. Yeah, if anyone else wants to share kind of reactions about what that process was like. And then I think coming out of that of, you know, having some of this like proactive work as the committee of, you know, wanting to say, how are we gonna continue kind of doing this engagement and education and outreach and gathering feedback and for some of these, you know, key issue areas that kind of keep coming up. And then as a secondary piece of like going into like budgeting stuff, like what are those proactive priority pieces of work and how do we want to start thinking about how we want to prioritize those for moving forward. So yeah, so I guess for like starting out, I'm just like, yeah, what were folks' reactions from this meeting three weeks ago? I'm sorry, there's a lot of trash tracks and things. I can jump in. Yeah, I was like, I don't know why. I was like, what did you think? Yeah, I mean, I think overall like I was like generally glad to see council was really interested in gauged, like it was clear that they understood that the commitment to this work is long-term and ongoing and it wasn't like, great, let's check a box that we did this like assessment and we can move on to other things. So I thought that was all good. You know, I think part of the conversation acknowledged like this is hard uncomfortable work and like yes it is and it needs to be or we're not doing it right. So I think that was kind of acknowledged. I mean, I think a lot of it was like, you know, like someone like described it as like, okay, we've gotten like the diagnosis and like now we need to figure out like of like a bunch of problems and like it was maybe less clear the like, where do we go from here? Even though obviously there's a bunch of steps that they identified, but I think overall there was like you know, wanting to do the work that was like identified and like build on it from there. And so those are my overall impressions from what I was hearing from the other counselors. I mean, I thought they did a great job presenting and Dana, you did a great job like helping queue it up and just be a constant presence there for it. But it was a long day. There was like a lot of presentation. I mean, like, yeah, I think it's a get a lot of those anyway, but it was long presentation on top of several long presentations and thinking, yeah, folks were still staying really engaged and yeah, committed was good. Yeah, and I just think it was just like really, just really, I feel like it really landed and like was really like deeply felt by not just, you know, city counselors, but staff and of just like really getting to sit and soak in the information. So, and I can just put that presentation in the chat. Smellizing, I didn't put that out with the agenda either. Or maybe I can't. And I think I copied Shayna on this, but not everyone else maybe. I don't remember, but I did update your website on the cities like your webpage on the city's website that has the sort of history of your work with creative discourse. And then the discourse like creative discourses, presentations and equity report for us. So it's easy to direct people to that now. That's what I can link in. Cameron, was there much reaction from staff? I would say no, because they've been pretty, other than this makes sense. This is what we've been talking about because we have been having ongoing conversation about this. This wasn't like something in the background that they're just like, Oh, here we're receiving this information. We really have been bringing this up at least in our leadership team pretty regularly throughout this process, checking in. And I think staff appreciated being engaged. So we've got, I think the work for us is really pushing that down. Instead of just being like leadership and management is into sort of our further workforce. But that's gonna take some thought on how to really bring that home for a lot of folks. But otherwise, no, no negative reactions. I think people were very invested in this process sort of knew where it was gonna end up. I think we're not big, we're like 117 people. So this is very, it strikes home for a lot of us, right? We see it, we understand it. It's important to have different perspectives. So it's not hard to communicate these kinds of things through 117 people. So no, not surprised, but definitely understanding and starting to strap in for a long haul. It's a lot of work. I think I'm remembering the meeting slowly. It was so long. And I was feeling like so, I think much appreciation for Lauren, you all and city staff, man, and just what a commitment that is. So thank you to you, Cameron and Lauren and others. But I think that I'm thinking a lot about housing because of the other things that were being discussed in that city council meeting. And that is one of the recommendations that came out of the Creative Discourse Report. Just that kind of fundamental issue of housing and equity in Montpelier and hearing about it in more detail earlier in the night and then thinking about it through the lens of the Creative Discourse work. And then connecting that thread to, I think we had someone from the, maybe it was the zoning committee or the design review board in our big committee meeting kind of reaching out or some help thinking about zoning issues and how, and then there was a comment that Sarah made from the state around housing feels like it's so much out of our control because it's such a complex, wicked problem. But she made a comment about, well, actually where local governments do have a lot of control was in zoning, right? And like those kinds of building codes and ordinances. And so I'm connecting those dots and wondering, it sounds like we may have some willing partners in the kind of building design review space and wondering where there's some opportunity there to work on this housing and equity issue. I hadn't thought about that way before. So that was something that struck me as an interesting opportunity. I can certainly, oh, Michael, sorry. Yeah, I can say one thing when my wife was on the city council, I think when she was on, maybe shortly after she left, there was a committee to review barriers to housing, affordable housing in the city. I don't know whatever happened to that report. I know it was, again, well received, but I can look through Nancy's papers to see if I can find the date, but Cameron, you may ask Bill, he might remember the year at any rate. And I think it's worth revisiting that documents so that at least what they knew at that time, which is not that long ago, has not changed considerably, maybe gotten a little bit more difficult with this crazy wild rise in prices for houses being sold here. But at least look at that as a kind of starting point would be, I think, helpful for the committee, not having to reinvent the wheel again, as it were. And Lauren just found it, Michael. She posted it. Oh, good. There's also the housing committee. I would love to, if you want, we can sort of bring the chair or at least a member from that and our planning committee to talk to y'all about that. If we want like, maybe if our next agenda or y'all's next, sorry, sorry. If your next agenda is strategic planning and then maybe give enough time for the next meeting could be about housing and just hearing what they're doing and like where y'all can plug in, maybe be helpful. Okay. Or maybe even the next one before the strategic planning one, because that process is gonna be like over a month, right? We're not gonna be too late on the game. Okay. So I feel like that could help inform that discussion. Yeah. And then, cause also coming out of our committee of committee meetings that we kind of connecting with Montpelier lives process and with the planning process. And I've reached out a couple of times and haven't heard back and I of course have not reached out in the three weeks since our last meeting. So I am going, I just wrote it down to circle back with them. So apologies for not making that happen. Well, I'll get someone to come to your next meetings. We'll make it about housing. That'd be amazing. Cause they did just present to council the housing task force, not committee. I'm sorry about sort of the state of housing in Montpelier and it was really illuminating. You know, we talk a lot about affordable housing and their report is, yes, we need more affordable housing but we also need housing for like working class folks which is what's like really needed in town. So it was really interesting and things that were important, I think for the community to hear as well. So I'll share that and I'll invite them to come to y'all's next meeting. Thanks, Pallin. Have a good couple of weeks. Yeah. And so we've done then two of wanting to just with this on the forefront of mind wanting to do the committee of committees every so often. And if we want to do that before kind of the holidays hit before November, we should probably start making a plan for that sooner rather than later and like putting the word out there and things like that too. Do folks still, does that make sense to do that this fall or to wait till early spring, till winter, winter? Well, I guess my only question is what kind of expectations are we setting for that gathering? Did we meaningfully act on what came out of the first one that would motivate people to come together again? And so I know it was great for like starting something and building relationships, new connections. I guess maybe we want to get really clear on what the goals of that would be as a regular gathering. Rather than have it be a little bit ad hoc and I'm sorry, so that's just my point. I must wonder about like, obviously we'll have the taking the recommendations and next steps with the creative discourse and the equity assessment. And then, I mean, I think maybe parallel to that or maybe this is part, I can't remember all of the recommendations there if this would like be responding to any of them, but like thinking about if we understand as a group like what are the strategic priorities? So like affordable housing and looking through those and making some decisions of like, okay, let's try to like reach out to some of the key committees that are working on that and look for places where we think we might be able to bring a different perspective to that conversation. I would probably front load anything that feels like there's budget implications, just knowing the timeline of the budget. So if there's anything that we'd wanna be getting thinking into how those budget recommendations are gonna be coming forward, could be one way to think about it. I mean, I almost wonder if we do like that work like with a couple of committees and then next spring, come back, like invite the full group and then we could talk about the work we'd been doing with committees and like look for other opportunities. So we have something more to kind of like report back on and like show what collaboration can look like. I mean, obviously it'll be probably, you know, depend on who the people are and those and how it goes. So I'm sure we'd have some lessons learned of like things that did or didn't work in trying to do that. But I don't know, that's just one idea. I like that idea Lauren. And I think it's a good focus and kind of stage how we start to address the recommendations with others. So I would support that totally. That sounds great. And so for the things of the kind of the budget implications, there's kind of the two major recommendations coming out of the presentation were about, you know, stipends for committee participation or, you know, for residents serving on boards and commissions. And so this is something that I know has been done in Essex and I've just, you know, had some like very initial conversations, but I'm just trying to figure out like, what does that? And I think that's, you know, it's first year there and stuff too. And so like if there's other folks to talk to, to like learn what's worked and what hasn't worked and best practices and all of that to, you know, start building the support for doing something like that here and have it be successful. And then the other pieces being for the initial outreach to LEP households to develop a language access plan and just even recognizing like, oh, we have a lot of learning. I like this is like where we like started doing work for our outreach and it was like, we don't even know where to start. So, but like, you know, reaching out to other communities of what that's looked like in other cities and also of looking at like, who are the people who are doing this and working on failure right now? Let's like, let's be a little bit more proactive on this as well. But it looks like various people are gonna respond to that, but go ahead. Yeah. I was going to say that the people who are doing the learning English, that's the central Vermont adult, adult education, as I said, based in battery, but they have an office in the Capital Plaza and they've been doing that for years with various immigrant groups that have come and either passed through or become part of the community. So we could certainly, if that's an issue we want to talk about can bring them into the conversation. Central Vermont adult basic education, that's the name of the group. So I think I was kind of coming into this meeting thinking we would do more separate calls with, or like, you know, like, you know, Michael would have a meeting with the central Vermont, you know, education and like learn about like, what's needed for doing LEP outreach and developing a language access plan. And Jeremy would talk to the folks about the stipends and what's happened in essay or like things like that. And after hearing about for housing I'm just like, let's have the housing people come to us. Does maybe that make more sense of doing more of like a for full committee participation rather than, yeah, if I'm just thinking about this now. Sorry, how to implement this? Well, I like the idea of sort of portioning it out so that there's a, but there's somebody who is, you know, looking at this and what you could obviously call on each other, but that does sort of focus each of our attention on one place, one or two places at the same. And you know, not get too large an agenda because I think we need to do this, take our time with it, but get on to it, get on with it. Yeah, and that's what I was saying. I was like, and housing is different than both ideas too, right? And because it's so many different committees and rather than like, it's significantly more narrow of like who's impacted and who's engaged in that process already with language access and with compensation. So for stipends, I should say. So yeah, okay. So for housing, we'll still have them come next week. And then, yeah, maybe I'll set up a call for folks who have dealt with this and asked that any other like ideas of how to, you know, do some more learning and digging around stipends for boards and commissions. Yeah, I really just wanna know like, I'll do some benchmarking as well. Like what is the, what are people paying, right? Yeah. I mean, that's really what to me. I mean, I hate to be very like utilitarian about it, but that's kind of what it comes down to to me is like, what is the budget impact gonna be? How do we support that and make that sustainable, right? Yep. I've been curious to, like I worked on this a lot for the Vermont Climate Council. We were trying to figure out how to get stipends for people and there's, so there's a standard state stipend for serving on some commissions. And then we were trying to get like an additional one so that people forget what it is. It's like maybe $50 a meeting that you can get once. I don't know. It was, anyway, we had done a whole bunch of research. So I'll try to see if I can like dig anything out. But then it was like just flagging. It was basically like having to budget for as if everyone's gonna take it. But then in reality, it's been, almost nobody has opted to take it. So like figuring out that budgeting, like you need to set aside money in case everybody wanted it and opted to take it. But then the reality is, I think in general, and I'd be curious with Essex, what their experience has been with that. I mean, you want it to be actually making it more accessible so people, like you don't want it to set it up in a way that like nobody's taking advantage of it. So it means like nobody is serving who would like, actually it's helping them be able to serve. But on the other hand, it doesn't mean all of a sudden every single person who's volunteering is going to request it or take it. So I don't know, figuring out that line for which makes the budgeting trickier, she can't remember. I can ask them about that too. Yeah, sounds good. Okay, we'll start there and can do just like a kind of a brief report back next meeting. And then if there's more questions, as more questions come up, can keep circling back. And then yeah, for the LEP and language access plan, does anyone, no folks at Central Vermont, adult education? And yeah, Michael, like would you be up for, for doing some of that like outreach and hearing more about what's going on? Right, I used to be on their board and I was also a volunteer there for a while. And I've had people that I've tutored in the interim. So I know who's out there anyway. Michael, you're involved in literally everything. That's so amazing. It's a long list of things I'm not involved with. Thank you very much. Yeah, no roller derby, but everything else. But are there other like types of asking, like I'm like other comparable communities that we should be talking to about language access plans or I'm not sure, yeah, other. Seems like Burlington is the one that comes to mind because they have so many immigrant communities. I think it's, is it St. Mike's or I think it's St. Mike's that has a program for teaching people how to teach English as a second language or whatever it's called now. And the terminology has changed a lot. And that might be a good place to go because I think the people who are being trained to do that are going there to get the credentials and then working on the field. And I'm pretty sure it's not Champlain College but St. Mike's, but I can inquire and I can inquire when I talk to the people at CVABE about where that training is happening because they would be good people to bring into the conversation about how you go about doing this and who's doing it. That'd be great. Do you need any more support for that kind of initial step, Michael? No, I'll have the conversation with the CVABE folks see what I can get from that. And then if there is some need for addition I'll put out the word or send up a flag help. But just the first conversation to get what's going on locally and what they know will be fine. Great. Anything else on those pieces of like housing, LEP committee stipends? All right. I mean, the only thing that's jumping out to me is creative discourses, third bullet, just about accessibility, which I think touches on physical accessibility but also communication, materials and strategy for communication. There's a lot in that bullet. And I guess I'm wondering more about accessible information about city government, about services, which also connects to the LEP stuff, of course. But just generally how do we make sure people know what's happening in their community? So that's one that's interesting to me. Yeah, Michael. There might be helpful to bring the folks who are involved with the CAN into this because I mean, it's hard for me to judge how this works because I think you have to have an interest in government to start looking around and trying to get information. But if you're trying to sort of put it in everybody's face, that's another level of communication where you make it so that you can't avoid it. And to say, well, we put advertisements in the newspaper or put the advertisements on the city website. Well, not everybody reads a newspaper as the newspaper people will tell you. And not everybody has access to or interest in wandering over to the city web page. So I think it would be good to talk with the CAN folks who are doing sort of more boots on the ground kind of stuff in their immediate area about how to expand the communication system. Yeah, I think that's an important piece of the puzzle. Maybe it's the last mile piece in a lot of ways. There is something to explore too though in terms of strategy and even new tools that the city could explore for kind of the first transmission, right? Or in many modes of transmission, that then someone like an organization like CAN can kind of make sure it gets into the cracks, right? I guess I'm using a lot of mixed metaphors, but... So yes to CAN and I think there are perhaps other ways that the city can be thinking about making it start more accessible. I wonder too about... You know, I mean, not every issue is equally interesting to every person or kind of different stakeholders or however you wanna put it. I mean, I'm thinking of like for example, like a couple of years ago, these were in-person meetings, so must have been ages ago, but when we were first really starting to focus as a council on homelessness, there were people who were going and talking with people who were living on house in our community and bringing them into the council meetings. We wanna hear your perspective and actively saying like, okay, we're having a conversation about issues and I would say we've generally had better participation of people living on house and like hearing directly from people who are currently experiencing homelessness or did recently than we do on a lot of other issues and like there was a very deliberate like outreach effort in that case that the city staff and it was even like a couple of police officers had taken the initiative to do that outreach originally and then it I think grew from there. But just thinking like, you know and obviously it's extra work and maybe not every single issue in my new show that comes before council is like the same but things that are like, you know if we're having a big discussion about something that impacts people in our community, like what have we done like deliberately to in a way like that of like, you know our perspectives being like invited in because there's like, there's so many like non-profits and groups that it could be like not just putting it out to front porch forum in the newspaper, but like, oh, like does anybody know like a group that might have like a network that we could just send this email to make sure it's like on their radar and that they're being personally and like we'd love to hear perspectives. So again, like I know that that would take more upfront staff work and with limited staff capacity but you know, starting to think through that of like when we're having discussions who's also been kind of invited and feels like welcomed and like their perspectives are valued and we want them and to be part of the discussion as policies are being made that will impact them. And I think, yeah, like the, there's kind of specific when like a, you know, task force gets developed about something that happens, right? But like the housing task force, I think there's this new, you know public restroom task force, like there's like other like key specific issues where because there's like a smaller group of folks just like working on this one thing like we can like, they can like dive in but of this being, I think what I'm hearing is just like being more intentional on outreach as stuff comes up before city council. And are you thinking that would, yeah that would be specific to staff doing that outreach because or us or all of the above, it's on everyone. Yeah, that's really, yeah. I mean, it seems like ideally it would become part of like practice like, oh, there's an issue coming before city council or there's some big like policy discussion we're having like, who's been invited? We would probably like the checklist of other, you know I think like building those networks and getting to know like I would imagine city staff could be helped by like just the network of brains and contacts of like beyond just having to think of it themselves. But like, I, you know, it's like the same issues come up a lot. So it seems like once you kind of build that database or like network then it would become easier and easier to be like, oh yeah, like let's make sure we're sending this out to whatever groups are. Well, I'll say that one way to get a good list of that is to look at the organizations that get grants from the city every year, the Montoya Community Fund has a page, a web page but also a page in the annual report of all the organizations that receive city, you know taxpayer funds. And that's a start, a good starting point because they covers a very wide spectrum of social needs in the community. And they're already, those organizations are already aware of what, you know, what issues are happening on their front and we don't have to do a lot of the legwork ourselves. But really just go to those folks and say, you know how do you wanna be represented here in conversations going forward? That's certainly something that I can start asking staff to do just on a sort of preliminary level now when you look at our agenda documents on our council agendas, if you go to like the packet you'll see a cover sheet for each of our topics, right? It sort of explains hopefully in a very easy to understand way what we're talking about what we want council to do and generally what our recommendation is and you know, give council the background information, right? The bottom of it, it says interested parties and I don't think we're using that to its full potential. A lot of the times it could be like a homeless community if we're talking about the encampment policy but I don't think we use it to its full advantage and that's certainly something that we can highlight as staff immediately is like an immediate impact of, hey, this has been a recommendation. We do need to fill this out more and maybe use it as a way to say here's what extra communication we did other than putting this in front porch forum and Facebook to engage the community that we think this might could impact. So that's an immediate takeaway for me from this right now. So thank you and I'll through a report back on how that's going. I think we also have to be mindful of what the creative discourse people emphasized. There's a level of exhaustion that sets in among a few organizations or there's some and there are just so many meetings that they can go to before they just throw up their hands and say, I can't do anymore. So we have to be really careful I think on, I think the outreach important obviously is very obviously an area of need and the organizations that are there are the obvious ways of connecting but we have to be careful about how much time and energy do they have for adding more to their agendas matter of whimsy. We could try to make a deal with Amazon. Every package that you deliver has a little post-it note. So here's what's going on in your community. Well, I think we probably get more people there that way than we get on front porch forum or. One thing, Michael, one thing you said, what you just said actually is reminding me of a kind of a work related issue for me. So I do a lot of qualitative research and I'm connected to a community of other folks who do qualitative research in large organizations and the thing that's on everybody's mind over the last couple of years is creating a research repository because you don't want to have to keep going back again and again and again to either your customers or your constituents or whatever when you do these kind of in-depth qualitative research programs. And so the research repository is a way to collect like insights and findings that are gathered from those kinds of research activities and create really a knowledge base that can then be accessed when you need it. It can be updated. It's a massive undertaking. I'm not necessarily making the recommendation that the city of Montpelier should create a research repository, but I wonder if there's a way to start to collect whatever kinds of information we have. I mean, it's learning, you mentioned a database and network database too. Like can we start to put stuff that we're learning somewhere where people can find it again when they need to? Because we are, we keep like your point, Michael is really well taken, we keep. Okay, we're having this meeting about housing crisis. Okay, let's go back out there. Let's find out again what people need when maybe we've already asked that and we have it tracked somewhere that we wouldn't have to do that kind of intensive outreach every single time. Well, I can report on what the police review committee did, which was to set up. And I guess the person who was doing it ended up being Mary, but it started with an intern from Norwich. As each of us were given a topic to work on, we sent resources that we use, the links to the resources to that person who then posted it on a spreadsheet. And it kept growing and growing it, but it was also divided into, it got topic names. So you could slip it, you knew where to put it. And I know Mary Smith was taking care of it. But we did have an intern from Norwich who was doing it initially. And that is there perpetually. So anyone who wants to know about, for example, use of force in police, there was a growing bibliography there. And you didn't have to do the, you don't have to do the research all over again. You could go to, you could go to that as a starting point. And I don't know what it would take. To start something like that. At a much higher level. Because you're talking about now, not just a limited number of topics, but also limitless with the council, but maybe it's a conversation to have. About who does what. With, with this kind of information. That's interesting. So this is like one of those like intellectual conversations that I just like don't really have very often. I'm just like, I was like theory. And strategy. Thank you guys. I'm sorry, I'm not very helpful. Well, I will say from my own research on the topics that I had to do, that there's an enormous amount of information. And there's a lot of information. And so I'm just going to, I'm just going to do a little bit of research on the topics that I had to do, that there's an enormous amount of information. And it's kind of bottomless. Once you get started, because then you see the references that the people are quoting when they write their reports and stuff like that. And some winter wing at the load at one level is helpful. You know, here's something important to look at rather than here's another article that deals with housing. You know, you know, there's a measure of control over or self control over what you post there is, is important in order to make it useful. So, okay. So just a recapping what our next steps are here. So we're not going to organize a committee on committees until we like have strong goals and plans and what that's going to be. We're going to have housing come and talk to us next time and, you know, we're going to have a meeting. We're going to have a meeting. We're going to have a meeting. We're going to have a meeting that is affordable and like working class housing. Around LEP outreach. And Michael's really going to kind of be point on doing some of the outreach there. For compensation for committee participation. I'm going to do some outreach there. And we'll both kind of report back at the next meeting with the housing piece if we can. Yeah. I don't know if it's, I don't know. I'm trying to, like, do we have specific next steps here? Or is it, you know, continuing to be more intentional about the interested parties form? Is it. About. Work, you know, communicating with. With can on, on. A strategy for communications. Yeah. What's. The city, I just for talking about can real quick, the city does use can often, but there are some things that they are just busy or not super. You know, it's maybe not the right avenue for spreading that information. But we are trying to figure out. The best way to use the money that council has appropriated for them. Well, maybe for them, right? Yeah. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea to put out an RFP process or figuring out that RFP with the mayor. So that relationship may or may not change. There might, may or may not be can and or. A can in a different setup than it is now. So there's just more conversation on our end about that. But we do use them as a communication link, especially with a lot of our DPW stuff, but we do use them as a communication link. So we do use them as a communication link. But I'll keep you abreast on sort of the changes there. As they come up. Any other next steps. Quite a lot of them. Yeah, I know a lot. But I'm like, I've been like taking notes that I'm like, but they're kind of all over the place. Did I just miss something? Okay. So our next meeting is going to be September 22nd, 830 to 930, right? Okay. So we're going to have about an hour. And. And we'll mostly hear from. Housing and do some, do some. And do some. Report not fair. And then that. Meeting on October 6th will be more on. Strategic planning. We'll kind of have some more. Numbers and. And. Specifics there. That's all good. Cool. I don't like what other tasks can we give ourselves for the next two weeks? Nope. We got it. Did we have minutes, Michael, for August 18th and September 1st? I thought that I had. Was there a meeting September 1st? Isn't that the one that. Yeah, I'll put. I'll put something together for that because y'all did have a meeting warrant. And I think that was just a miscommunication from my office. Because somebody else sat in on. Your meeting before. And I think, anyway, it does not matter. Point is I warned it. So I have to put. Put something together. Yeah. So I'll do that. But. We just didn't go through that part of the agenda. Michael, did you send out. No, I have, I, they got. I had them. I have the notes here, my notes here. And I thought that I had drafted it. And sent it around, but when I looked to find it in my files, I didn't. So I apologized once again. For not getting the minutes. Done, but they're here and I'll try to do both of these. Maybe sit down with it today. So that it is not another big lapse in time. Anyone would like to take this over. I'm, I'm willing to. Hand it off, but. No. Thank you so much, Michael. Actually Cameron, getting notes from Cameron and from me, Shayna help because, you know, I can barely sometimes read my own scribbling. So. And anything you want to send me is as helpful. Okay. Thanks. Cool. All right. Well, thank you all. Yeah. Happy new year, Shayna. Thank you. Yeah. All right. Bye everyone. Thanks everyone.