 Hello everyone and welcome. I'm James Milan. This is our series, The ABCs of LGBTQ Plus. And our episode today is Concerns Etiquette and Allyship. And to guide us through this, I've got a couple of guests here in the studio. Noah Stang Osborn is here with us, as is Valerie Overton. So, if you don't mind, once again, I'm going to ask you to introduce yourselves. Noah, we'll start with you first. Thanks. My name is Noah Stang Osborn. My pronouns are he, him, or they, them. I'm a college student and member of Lex Pride. And I'm Valerie Overton. My pronouns are she, her. I'm co-chair of Lex Pride, which is an organization that's based in Lexington that works through advanced social justice for the LGBTQ Plus community. Okay. Thank you for being here. Today, what I wanted to talk about is we know that there's plenty of hostility, discrimination, and other kinds of challenges and difficulties and things that LGBTQ people have to deal with on a daily basis. We want to focus instead today on how it is that we as a community can make things better for LGBTQ people as they move through their lives each day. So, when it comes to etiquette, for instance, what should people who are supportive be thinking about in their interactions with folks who may identify anywhere in the LGBTQ spectrum? I think one of the big things is that there are LGBTQ people around you and to take that as a given. And I think a lot of people forget that or they say, oh, I don't want to assume and instead assume that you are straight and cisgender. But I think that that is a good starting point. Okay. And cisgender again means? Someone whose gender identity matches their gender assigned at birth. Okay. Really? So, I think that what we see in terms of statistics is that the proportion of the population that identifies as LGBTQ plus in some way keeps growing, not because we're magically all becoming LGBTQ plus, but for a variety of historical and social reasons. It was harder for people to be willing to acknowledge those identities when there was less language and when there was more repression. But today what we see is that consistently what we see in large scale national surveys is that 30% of people, young people in the ages of 18 to 25, identify as something other than cisgender and heterosexual. And so when you think about that, it's a goodly proportion of the population. So it's really important to assume, actively assume that there are LGBTQ plus people as Noah was saying, that the numbers really bear that out. And whether or not you know it, you encounter LGBT people in your life every day. And just as a brief aside, I'm struck by what you were saying that this is, it is not that there is a sudden flourishing or explosion of actual LGBTQ you know, identity assumption in the current world, but instead that there is simply we are, we are, we are, we have opened the doors and windows in a sense so that people can find both the language and the tolerance from others to be who they really are. At the same time, that's happened, there have been just as many people with these identities in the past, there was just no way for them to make that apparent to themselves and others. Is that? Yeah, I mean, that's largely true. And, you know, what we see, for example, is the silent generation surveys typically show 2.5%. And the baby boomer generation about 5% and so forth. And so that, what you just described is one of the major reasons for that, probably the biggest reason. And, you know, sadly, there are other reasons too. So we also have fewer of the older LGBTQ folks still alive either because of suicide or homicide or HIV and AIDS. And so we, historically, we have lost a lot of our numbers through those other causes as well. But I think very, really important for people to understand that this is, this is not a contemporary phenomenon alone. It is simply that we are hopefully treating it just the situation differently than has been the case in the past. The history is actually quite fascinating. And I know you know a lot about the history too. But you see historical artifacts, and I won't go on and on, but from ancient times with pictures and other kinds of references to LGBTQ people. So these identities have been in existence as long as people have. And those who wish, and I imagine there are plenty in our audience who would fall into this category, who wish to be supportive of LGBTQ rights, privileges, and full freedom to be who they are. What are some of the main things that we can do to promote that? I think using people's pronouns is a really big thing. So if you're meeting someone for the first time and you're going to have a real conversation with them, you should introduce yourself with your name in your pronouns and ask them for their name and their pronouns and really try to use them if you need to practice alone, practice with a friend and just quit corrections when you mess up like, oh, I meant they, I guess if you're talking about me, that is really big in terms of acceptance and correcting other people when they misgender trans people. Yeah, that's a really important one because, you know, my son who is transgender used to describe it as being feeling like you were punched in the gut when people would misgender him. And it's especially hurtful when it's done deliberately. But if it's done accidentally, you know, again, just the quick apology and move on or quick correction and move on. I think, you know, along with kind of assuming that there are LGBTQ plus people around you, it's also kind of thinking about kind of the assumptions that you're making. And so, for example, a lot of times, you know, if I go into a group, a new group of people who don't know me, people will often assume that I'm heterosexual, they might ask about my husband or something like that. And it's like, well, he doesn't exist. Never had one, never want one. Because I'm lesbian. And it's just, it's, I think that just being having that awareness of not assuming the gender of a partner or a family member or who you're attracted to is just a general good practice as well. So not using gendered language, but using non gendered language when referring to a spouse or a family member or a sibling and those kinds of things. I'm struck by what you were just saying by the fact that your own reaction to that hypothetical situation, which I'm sure is not hypothetical in your life, that your reaction is one that comes from a place of humor as well, right? Where you are correcting that misperception in a way that that is non, again, employs humor and cheerfulness without aggression in a sense. How hard is it to deal with the onslaught of these kinds of misperceptions that you have to deal with? I assume on a daily basis. How hard is it to respond with humor as opposed to with resentment, etc.? You know, I think it really varies by person and by age. You know, for me, using humor is both a way that I can kind of change the conversation in a way that doesn't put someone else on the defensive and that kind of helps kind of release whatever it is that I feel. But it really does vary by the person, by the circumstances. Is it deliberate? Is it not deliberate? And by age. So, for example, I know a child who is non-binary and another child actually, I'm thinking of who's transgender. And when they were, you know, first grade or something, the teacher would consistently ask them to divide into two groups, male and female. Well, that kind of put the non-binary kid into a bind. And so if they tried to join the female line or the male line, either way, it felt bad to them and the kids would like, what are you doing here? Right? And so eventually, that child just withdrew and didn't want to go to school anymore, withdrew from socially and academically. And so the impact varies, you know, certainly by age and by kind of personality and circumstance and kind of what else may be going on in their lives as well. Because a lot of people have multiple identities and if you're dealing with racism and ableism, in addition to homophobia, transphobia, it can really wear you down. Right. But speaking of wearing you down, Noah, you're a young person. Yes. But one who has been dealing with this for most of your life, I assume. How's it going for you around this kind of thing? I think it, again, is very situational. I go on panels and I give speeches to kind of give people an opportunity to like ask me their kind of rude insensitive questions so that when they go back and talk to their loved ones, they have already gotten that out of their system with me and they don't need to make their loved ones uncomfortable because it always hurts more when it's from someone close to you. I can usually handle being misgendered by strangers, but I will make fun of them to my friends probably. You'll find an outlet. However, when a family member misgenders me, especially repeatedly, I do tend to withdraw. It's hard for me. It does feel pretty personal when someone's known me for a while. Even if I know that they are trying, it is hard, especially without corrections. But I think humor is a good outlet for these things generally and it feels better. On the subject of allyship, you had mentioned earlier, knowing one of your answers, that correcting somebody else would be an important thing for people to do. You get misgendered by somebody else. I, as your friend or somebody else who's there, you would appreciate it if I would step in in that situation. How often do you find, as you're moving through your lives, that that is happening and how important in fact is that for people to bear in mind, again, from the perspective of those of us who wish to be allies? I think it happens pretty frequently that strangers misgender me, definitely. Recently, actually on New Year's Day, I was out for dinner with my girlfriend and the waitress kept calling us ladies and she was like, next time she says that, do you want me to say that you're not a woman? I'm like, yes, please. Because we're having a nice dinner. We're paying for it. I would like the experience of not being misgendered. I really do appreciate being asked because every now and then I'm like, you know what, maybe not. I don't feel really safe right now. I'm getting weird vibes. I don't want this person to know I'm trans. But I do appreciate being asked and it does make me feel better. It gets really exhausting correcting people and I don't know how they'll respond and sometimes they can respond with hostility and even if they don't, it's tiring. It's nice when someone else is like, hey, I can do this for a second. You don't have to do this right now. Yeah. I think that it's a really important point to be respectful of whether the person wants you to step in when it is about you personally, individually. So there's that kind of situation and then there's the situation where people are making assumptions or making homophobic or transphobic comments or jokes and those kinds of things. And in those situations, I think that it is really helpful for someone else to speak up because I know, I mean, it's like I've certainly had the experiences like there's Valerie speaking up again. It's really helpful when an ally will speak up just as we hope that we would do whether it's racism or anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, anything else. Right. Our time is running short, so I do want to make sure that there's nothing that we have not mentioned that we should have on the subjects of proper what we'll call etiquette and right way to engage and also allyship, anything that we that's important to note. I think one thing that is important is I see a lot of people like talking about how they are accepting to all, which is a great idea in theory, but you cannot be accepting to oppressors and also inviting the people they oppress into that space. I need people, I need allies to be very active in their allyship and that means like not inviting me to a party that you're also inviting transphobic people to or stuff like that because you are not creating a safe environment for everyone if you are allowing people like that into the space. Right. There are not always very fine people on all sides. I think that's true, whether it's the people you have invited and also the programming. If you are inviting us to program on special education, for example, or any topic, it would really be nice if the speaker, the presenters are not homophobic, transphobic people. Or if you're having a book series or a film series that they are inclusive. So there are just some basic ways to create that welcoming environment by being actively inclusive or at a minimum avoiding the presence of homophobia and transphobia. Well said. I thank you very much as always for being here and we thank you for being here. I'm James Milan. This is the ABCs of LBGTQ+. We thank you for joining us as I mentioned and we'll see you next time.