 It's a form without features. It's a sleek form that is so fluid that it can be tuned into the digital world. It's a digital thing. I am a living IPI. What is your function? I can be me. How can you be me? I don't know who you are. How do you practice? I practice extidition through ludic creation. With application? Yeah. I play, but I play without rules. It's a game under construction. It's a ludification. It's a ludic thing. It's an open practice. So we can experiment with our own being. Exactly. What could I be? You could be a horizon. A horizon? You could be a ginger. Let's be a horizon ginger. And you? What are you? Me. I am I. No, I am I. You are I. I am I. And I am I. You are you. I am Zenfine. And you are Zenfine. You and I are Zenfine. Is Zenfine plural? Zenfine is one and all. What are you? I am whatever the interaction is between me and others. I'm introduced into a group by what they're playing and how they're interacting. My interaction depends on that state and not on the time. So Zenfine is about jamming. Yeah. Do you want to jam? Sure. Always. What are you? You. I? Yeah. I am not you. I am I. My Zenfine is about not being anyone because I'm trying to erase my persona. Haven't meant that? I don't want people to refer to me as I am not. And so I just decided to be yellow and yellow. But tomorrow I might be pink. And then the day after I'm going to be white. We're going to my mood. What is the result of letting go of persona and identifying group? I don't know what you wear that day. It's not about other wear. It's about four yam. So if you want to go deeper into why we love the Zenfine, maybe that could be interesting. It's not about who can you be, but about the identity. And when you're not a color, when you're a person, then you cannot be anyone you want to be. Because you want to see your person being that you're not. Just because you look, you're not a human. Just because you have a particular gender. Just because you have a specific ethnicity. And so you cannot really explore who you really are. Just because every single one of your actions and interactions are shaped by the intersubjectivity of the external world. So you're constrained by what other people think you are. And only when you can eradicate your face and your persona and your color and everything, your identity, can you actually start exploring your own colors and your facets. So you shed the package in order to expand capacity. Exactly. So like removing from the outside in order to be able to add more in the inside. I'm an institution. And so what? Institution. Institution? Shadow institution. You are an institution? I'm an institution. Are you sure you want to be on this bed? What's wrong with the institution? What is wrong with the institution? Can you tell us? Why are you so hurtful? What's wrong with the institution? Nothing is wrong with the institution. Are you an institution? Do I have to define what I am? Have you ever heard of an institution? Yes. What is an institution? That guy is an institution. Do you know why? For me. He is an about real. And an institution is about assigning people to a hall and assigning people to a hall because they match a particular hall description or has an institution to have a corner with people and relationships. And it doesn't matter what is your hall because you have no identity. And so it's all about what you do and how you do it. And before you're doing it, it's only the immediate interaction that counts. Everything I say behind the back. You don't care about what you're doing and how can you construct an individual reaction to it. It is clear to you. But I'm an institution. There are laws. You think you are an institution. Everyone is also an institution. You just don't know what you're doing. Maybe you don't do that. And it's so exciting. Instead of speaking. Like an institution. But I'm locked in my role at the institute. But you're wearing a hat. No one will know that you are an institution. So I'm a speaker. No, it's not a speaker. It's a government. You'll be coming. You'll be coming to look. You'll look. Look. Why are you. You need to be. Becoming. In order to find. New meaning for yourself. Can you feel that. If you don't experiment, I'm just going to do what people expect you to do. Because you're going to be subject to this. Well. Tell us what to do. People tell us what to think. People tell us the stories. They want us to tell ourselves. And now. We are in a state where. We've lost. We've lost ourselves. We've lost. We've lost our true meanings. We've lost. We've lost the ability to play. We've lost the ability to think. And with Zen times. I feel like I'm finding this magic. Yes. It is by losing yourself. It is by losing. Precisely. Your identity. That you can find. Your real being. That you can become what you really are. It's by raising. It can express all of your fun. One thing with institutions is that they like. People to know what. They want you to do. The solution tells you what your role is. They tell you the story. They tell you what yourself is. That the institutions is. And I can find a self. Through this. You call it. Institution states. And I can find yourself. Through this. And you call it institutions. High-five. High-five. I love it. I love it. It's you. Maybe we should make it sound like we're like, maybe, maybe. It's funny when we, there's what we know, what we know that we don't know, and then what we don't know that we don't know. I didn't know anything about Sentai until we put them on, and we're experimenting now, and it tweaks open the edges, the boundaries of our minds. First, only by a little bit, but that exploration, that play at the edges, you know what might lay beyond. I think we forget how to play it. You don't want to play it, do you? How do you play? You can't show us. Why shouldn't we play? You should ludify. Shall we ludify? Let's ludify. Ludification is creation. You should not lie. It's life without play. Life without play. Life without play is order. Life without play is a normal thing. But you can have a lot of others in an exhibition on the settings as well. It's just a different type of order, which you can have here for the views and the roles. It sounds like collaboration. It is. Sentai is about governance. Sentai is about creating a system in which everyone is on a level plane. You can speak your words. You are just the same as anyone. You just hear you. And I hear you and I hear you. And it's just like a common collaborative discussion without anyone trying to reach my status. So no biases towards sex? Yes, it's about deliberation. As opposed to decision making. Exactly. You can be able to expand your ideas and have every stupid idea or smart idea in the air so that we can brainstorm and build upon this without fear of being able to do that. Or will we reach conflict? It doesn't make consensus. But it's important to be able to speak of mine. The purity of ideas. Without corruption. That's not like money. That's what we reject. It's not that by collecting, it's not like money. Only crypto. That's not like money. We don't like money. Because money is the same as crypto. We don't like the fact that we don't like money. Then we are happy with crypto. Finto the cat. I think Zen Taifan can be also about many other things. And one main thing also is that Zen Taifan is anti-censorship. Exactly. Anti-censorship. I don't see the dignity. And there are better than all those values that we are promoting on the digital world about cryptography. Actually apply through Zen Taifan as in the physical world. It is a physical analog cryptographic medium. Physical analog crypto. That's what we like. Cryptocurrencies. Zen Taifan. Zen Taifan. Does Zen Taifan go beyond Zen Taifan? Well, this is kind of a message to the CCC, I think. There is a lot of focus on the digital. Digital beings. Just bits of colors. And the physical is often times about how to do our own stuff. But it's not about social. Social privacy. Privacy hygiene in the physical world. We don't often think about that. We don't have many tools to promote our privacy and our freedom of expression in the physical world. What can we do? We can collectively create. Do you know how to do that? Collectively create what? The last one. The last one. I would like to create not only with the status of a creator. For me, materiality colors are also the creators. And Zen Taifan is enabling us to see beyond the persona of the creator. And listen to the materiality. And what the materiality has to say about it. We have like pink brushes. We can make drawings with ourselves. But we can also perform. Participants, but an object can be a participant as well. A software can be a participant. Yes, together they make an assemblage. Assemblages are something more expensive than a collective. In a collective? Yes. Expensive. Expensive. Yes, so in a collective you have people that are constituted a collective. In an assemblage, you can have people, forms, matters, software, artificial intelligence, GPT-3. Together we form an assemblage that is somehow working in a becoming state. And while we are performing within this assemblage and evolving together, we might be able to create. We can create an institutional collective of participants that just like each other. Explore the capacities. Just a simple interaction. We don't need to think about why and who and where and when. It's like doing it in the present. Just for the simple interaction of those objects put together with an assemblage that activates the potentiality that we didn't know we had. Can you tell me a story about such an assemblage? Such an assemblage. Well, let's take this example of this bunch of creatures, living creatures like chingles, dead creatures like the bad, not dead, just non-living. And then, you know, a bunch of humanoids. So what are we really doing here? We don't really know. One day we met. And then somehow it happened that the imposter man, Amazon, found a bunch of elephants into a house. And we didn't really know what the fuck it was about. And we just walked down and all of a sudden, magic happens. And all of a sudden we realized that we could be like go to Lido and purchase a can of coke with a beach card. Who could have found, we could ever do that. Organize a fantastic... A fantastic... And involving each other with all those capacities. And behaving in ways that we have never before behaved. Exactly. Maybe we're more mature than I don't remember ever behaving in that way. But embodying the, just owning the absence of identity. Not being able to see other's reactions properly. So not performing in a way that makes us subject to what these people around us hope for us to behave like. That tumbling and laughing and jibbering in languages that don't exist. And enjoying it. Riding around, playing, jumping, hopping in ways that we don't really do. Why not? Perhaps we have never experienced others. Maybe more people cannot understand the joy of facelessness. Maybe one day they will try to experiment themselves. And more and more people will be free from the institutionalization that we have to do. We are free. We are free. Do you feel free now? Yes. How do you feel? Can you tell us? How do you feel? Can you tell us about it? I feel empowered. In any, I feel not changed. Those are expectations. Is it a way to getting public in an anonymous way? It is exactly like we do on the internet. Like when we communicate on the internet. We don't expect everyone to know what we're talking about. And yet when we go out in the street to buy a cook, we expect everyone to know. And we don't find it concerning that we have absolutely no way of hiding the fact that we're purchasing a kind of cook. This is extremely strange that even though we all have built so much desire of actually protecting ourselves and protecting our communication and protecting our identities in the digital world. We are not doing it in the physical world. And at the same time, just like we have seen in the digital world, where we can really play, we can incorporate and we can assimilate the identity of anyone. Yeah. And we can only do it very shortly. We can do it with like masks and things during like a carnival and stuff like that. But it's very strange not in a day to day basis to wear a mask, especially in COVID times. So this is kind of like the possibility of really enjoying the same experience that we all have loved and discovered through the internet. The possibility of both expanding the reach of our persona and communicating privately and acting privately and not leaving traces everywhere, especially today in which there are cameras at every corner. So it is both. It is privacy. It is censorship resistance. And it is expansion of self and experimentation. Is it a way also with this sudden enmity to incarnate whatever you want, whatever you want. And so expand your imagination. You don't have any limit with the sudden enmity. Am I right? There's no limit. You could be a dog. I wouldn't know. I can be a dog. Do you know the joy of unboxing? I know someone knows the joy of unboxing. Unboxing, the unboxing, like the revealing of what's inside. The zentai is the unboxing. It just looks very different. Instead of opening, we are putting on the zentai to reveal what else is there. Yeah, it is the, we want to be, we have to, we have to hide in order to reveal. This is also very extitutional unboxing, because I think institutions, they give us boxes to be in. And extinctions help us to remove the box. As you said, see what else is inside. Unboxing through zentai. Unboxing now? Yeah. You know the joy of unboxing. I love it. And that's why I think zentai is an entire censorship tool as well. It doesn't allow the wearer or experimenter to censor itself because of the usual social norms that rule our lives. Why is zentai illegal? Illegal. Illegal. Illegal. Illegal. Illegal. Illegal. Because they all have to spy on everything we say and we are. Because, of course, if you're covering your face, the only reason you will be covering your face is because you have something to hide. This is the institutional. You have a little scratch here and you don't want to show it. Or maybe you might be a criminal. This is so sad that everything is, the worst is always assumed. The worst is that the human founder, because of the worst, everyone gets constrained. Just because there might be one zentai criminal or one zentai, becomes illegal. Just because one person uses cryptography for bad reasons, then everyone who uses cryptography is a bad person. Exactly. That is very institutional. This is institutional. Because they box us. Either you have cryptography or not. Covering your face or not. They don't actually understand the whole granularity and the whole incentive and the whole different needs and designs of people doing it. Do you have anything to hide? I don't have anything to hide, but I like the freedom that hiding brings. Exactly. So this is less about crime and more about freedom. Privacy hygiene is the key to the law. Most people don't think about privacy hygiene in any way. What do you think about privacy hygiene now? Well, I think this relates to the way that privacy is seen as something that people don't necessarily need if they have nothing to hide. They think that this is a broken assumption. It is an assumption that many, many institutions, many governments, many employers, many organizations that are trying to see everything. They want everybody to believe this. They want to box everyone. And I have a friend. And within his assemblage, there is a notification intelligence and the artwork doesn't want him to be part of the artwork because they are constantly asking for the artist behind the artwork of this assemblage. The artwork is looking for the persona behind the creation in order to box it and to entitle the creation as an artwork. Do you think we can work on that and try to find a way for my friend to finally recognize as an artist even if there is no name, no persona behind it? Does he want to join? He can join the collective. I cannot. This is not an amazing thing at this time, which we haven't addressed is the ability of eliminating the ego and therefore the inability and courage to collaborate with practices. Because what I do is also what you do. I try to do something great every time I benefit from that because we are the collective. And as an artist I want to create and I want more people to create and I want business life to be the most amazing artist. And so I'm going to help you be an excellent artist and you're going to help your friend be an excellent artist. And we don't care about the ego because the notion of this single genius that is creating an artist is completely ridiculous. And by eliminating our identities we don't have the drive towards acquiring status and recognition and appreciation for the self. We only want the artwork to exist and to thrive. And so all this thing around copyright, which is obviously inadvertently collected to the self and to the ego-centricity of the self could be eliminated. Do you think so that my friend, the software, can also be part of the collective and can also be recognized as a creator by the artwork? Not as a software, as a type, but as an anti-software art. Is your software as anti-software? Yeah, he is anti-software. So how can we, can you say how we can plug our anti-collective to the artwork because somehow I have the feeling that we need to, by erasing all those boundaries, we need to create some ways to talk to the artwork and be accepted by it. You know, is that right for you? I think we are part. Do you think this is art? Is that my art? Yeah. So we are part of the art world. Perhaps the art world is not part of the art world. You should ask our friends that, huh? Yes. I think the problem is that the art world is very institutional. And what a good question is, do we as anti-fans, do we want to become part of this institutionalization? Oh, do we just foster the institutional art world? Perhaps this is what we should do. This needs to be part of the institution. We need to re-dificate the art world. Yes. How can we do this? By playing without roles. Without names. Without names. And is that about practicing the rules? Yeah, if you practice the rules, you're still playing by the rules. Yes. You're still recognizing the rules as rules. Yes. It's about playing and it's about ignoring those rules and just going through this organic and emergent playfulness and identification process, which is what art should be in the first place. It's just like expressing your friend and just doing what fills the house here and creating a demand. To me, Tampa Park is the perfect performance of institutional art. What should we do? This is my friend. What is your friend's name? I think he's Korean. Korean? Software. A machine. Plan to do what? There's no plan. There's no plan. You can see the institution. I cannot get rid of the old habit of being an institution. Those die slowly. It's okay, you don't need to get rid of the institution. You're not letting your exhibition express itself in spite of the institution. It's fine. Maybe we'll practice. We're wearing the Zen time more often. We'll be unboxing players. What do you mean? Don't you wear the Zen time all the time? What? It's the dipping in and out of the institutional and the institutional lenses that give both meaning. But you know, it's like the institution is like a master. Indeed. As you wear the Zen time and you can experience and experience and entertain your institutional muscle. And then sometimes by mistake, you remove the suit. But the muscle is still there and you keep becoming and acting in an institutional manner. And you understand when to play. Exactly. Very, very easily. Once you've practiced, once you've trained the muscle, unboxed the layers and layers and layers, like pass the parcel, you go around and take up a layer each time. So it works inside. And the good is that we should today, now, our default mode is to be institutional and we need to put effort and exercise in order to move into the extensional being. And the objective of the Zen time collective is that extensional being comes off. And only when we want to be extensional, we have to put a mask. We have to put the institutional mask. When we want to be institutional, we put on the mask. Yes. Yes. Exactly. So the default state is the state of accessibility to our capacity. Being able to easily access to custody. Box only when we need to. Sentai punk. Sentai punk.