 You can now follow me and all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. You've done a very bold honour, where you tried to do an honour where The Sultan of Brini, he was a richest man in the world at that time. That's right, yes. You decided to pretend to be his brother, Fodd y ddwyl o'r gyflwyll yn Bevelir Hau. Roedd yma limau, Llamozine, S.C.S. Mae'r ffwrdd o'r cyfle i'r ffwrdd a ddodd y cael eu cyflwyll. Rhyw meddwl i'r Llywodraeth. Rhyw meddwl i'r Llywodraeth yn ei bod 150 o'r banylynyddiad o'r ddau y Llywodraeth. A'r rhaid o'r Llywodraeth a'r Llywodraeth. Roeddwn yn cael ei gwaith. Rhaid i'r Llywodraeth. Mae'r prins o'r prins. yn ni'n ddod, mae'n gofynu, mae'n ddod y rhan oherwydd ac yn ymlaen, mae'n gwybod, yma'n ddod dweud o'ch ddweud ymlaen, ddod ymlaen oherwydd a'r ddod, ceisio ddim yn ddod ymlaen. Mae'n ddod, mae'n ddod yma, mae'n ddod ymlaen o'r ddod, o'r ddod, mae'n ddod o'r ddod. Mae'r ddod ymlaen. Mae'n ddod o'r ddod ymlaen o'r ddod, mae... Mae'r rhaniaeth. Mae'n ddydd gweithio'r gwaith. Mae'r rhaniaeth sy'n ddimwys. Mae'n nhechlyn o'r ddweud. Yn oedd yn fath. Mae'r rhaniaeth gwybodaeth gwaith ymlaen, mae'n fath o blion. Mae'r ddweud o fours. Mae'r ddweud. Mae'n ddigon. A bod yn gwneud. Mae'n credu rwy'n gweithio. Rwy'n gyd yn gyd i'n gwneud. Yna, gallwn yw 21 oed mewn ymddangos i'w bwysig i'w ddechrau, yna, rydyn ni'n fyddai. Yna'n gwneud i'w ddod! I gael y gallwn i gael yma. Fe hynny, mae'n gweithio. Fe yna'n gweithio. Mae gennym i'w gwneud, fe wneud i'w gwneud. Ac rwy'n gweithio'n gweithio'n ni. Dyna'n gweithio bod yr Ernor, dyno'n gweld yr Ernor yn rhan o'r Brynau. Sefydlu'r llyfr yma yn gyfnod i'r rhywbeth. Dyna'n gweithio. Fe wnaethau i'r hynny'n gweithio i'r brif ythegi. Rhywbeth fel yn i Llyfrfynodol ac'r Llyfrfynodol. Mae'r Gweithio Llyfrfynodol, Llyfrfynodol, Llyfrfynodol, Gdadasig. Mae'r gwaith o'r cymryd o'r rhaid o'r cyfryd o'r Gymraeg, Kiss and one for you. Perfect. It's amazing. Very interesting, I've seen your videos on Vice and they've just went out recently. Facebook, YouTube. I was letting you get this man on. They say my show is quite anything goes. It's kind of this sort of stuff that people love. How's things first of all? Yeah good thank you mate, good. Especially with this covid situation. It's good to be healthy and safe. Behavior. Always. Rwy'n gobeithio i'r gwasanaeth gwaith. Rwy'n cael ei bod yn ôl yn y cyfnod? Rhaid. Felly, rhaid i'n gwaith yn y dyfodol. Mae'n rhaid i'n gwaith 3 maes yn ychydigon gyda'r mil. Mae'n gwaith 80-gof i'r gennym, gan gwych o'r llyfrion a'r mwy i'r argyrnu. Ond mae'n gweithio, mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gwaith yn Ysgol Cymru. Mae'n gwaith aesian gweithio. ac rwy'n olygu… ac efallai gymryd wedi bod i'n�awr. Title erioedol o'i dṟwg. Rwy'n olygu, mae'r ffaith wedi eu ddayl erioed. Diolch yn ddechrau y gwasanaethau. Roedd ei wneud o'r gwaith, yw'n maeth yn ynfer, ac mae'n olygu'r gwaith a'r pwy gains o'r drwg. Rwy'n maeth o'r cwmal? Rhyn a, rhaeg yn cychwyn. Ydych chi'n gyllid i? E 갈un? Rwy'n meddwl. Rwy'n meddwl ei fod yn siw Romanian, ac mae'r meddwl bobar. Felly mai gynnydd i'r meddwl. Mae'n meddwl i'ch mewn iawn i gydig oherwydd. Eich myfydliad sydd wedi'u mewn zeolwyddo? Mae'r meddwl i'r meddwl. A chwech o'n gyllideb? Mae'r meddwl i'n meddwl i'ch meddwl. Felly eich meddwl i'ch meddwl i'ch meddwl, mae'n meddwl i'ch meddwl iawn. mae'n meddwl i'ch meddwl i'ch meddwl i'ch meddwl i'ch meddwl? Felly, mae'n meddwl i'r blaenau cynnwys. Felly, mae'n meddwl i'r blaenau cynnwys. Yn y ddechrau ymlaen, mae'r ddweudedd yn mynd i'n mynd i'w clas, a mae'n meddwl i'r ddweudedd. Mae'n ddim ddweudud eich Llywodraeth wirfyrdd, gallwn Llywodraeth yn y bydd hwnnw, a'n dweudio'r adres i'w adres i'w adres i'w ddweudedd, a'u gilydd o'r adres i'w ddweudedd. ac neb yn mynd i bod yw'n gwybodwn yn fawr, ei wneud am maen nhw'n daep wazer. Wel, mae'n gwneud yn hwnnw i'r cyfaint yn dda. Nid yw'n gymryd yma, mae'n hoffi elw i modd, er byddwch yn gweithio'r cyfaint. A'i gwaith, yn y ddweud, mae'n ddweud yn y dda, mae'n cyfr nutritious ag i ddechrau'i ddaf i'r ddweud. Mae'n ddweud i'r cwisio ddim yn gweld os flas ddaf i hwyl. Yn gyfnodiaeth cymaint, mae'r cyntaf ymlaen ystafell? Yn gyflym, mae'n meddwl yn ystafell, a dda, wrth gwrs, yna. Rwy'n meddwl yn ystafell, rwy'n meddwl i'r cyflwyno. Fyaf yma i'r hawdd, a rydyn ni'n meddwl i'r cyflwyno a rydyn ni'n meddwl i'r cyflwyno. Felly rydyn ni'n meddwl i'r cyflwyno, a dyna'r cyflwyno'n meddwl i'r gynnalau. ac am ydym yn Isbres. Gallwn ôl Amesgysgwlad yma, mae gennym eu bod gan ydyn ni'n ddegwyd o'r cyffredin Seven. ac yn ddechrau i'r tylu, ac yn ddegwyd i'r tylu. Mae'r ffordd yn ystod i chi, nad oedd yn ni'n edrych ac yn neun ac i'r cyffredinno'n iddo, ac mae'n dechrau i bwysig yn ceisio adeilad susod. Ydw ni fydd gennym eich cyffredineth i'r cyffredin, mae'n cydwod eich galw sy'n talio hyn ein bydd. Was it telephone bank again or was it stuff dropped off to addresses? Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much. It was America's besties worldwide. So you could ring up Brazil with a certain amount of information and then you'd gain some more information off them, such as a spending pattern and stuff. And once it's like a jigsaw, once you had it all together, I mean, let's say it was yourself, I'd have at hand, I'd have probably more information that you'd know from your natural insurance, maybe even your passport number, how much you're spending. And then we'd go. What kind of money were you making back then? Well, to be honest with you, when we first started, it wasn't money, it was more possessions and things that we wanted. It's only them, you know, as you graduate, you think, wait a minute, you can earn off this, you know, how many pairs of trainers and, you know, phones you can have. So that's when we started to look into anything, anything that was in the market. I remember one time we got some, do you remember the microphone phones of Flips? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we'd order like 50 or 100 courier, get them sent, get someone to pick them up and then basically fraud Manchester. And just sell them? Yeah, yeah, well, a lot of times, to be honest with you. Give them away? Well, give them a lot, a lot, a lot of that, to be honest with you. But selling to shops because everyone's out there to make a book, you know. How many were yous involved at that time? Well, it used to vary. There was mainly like two of us and then we'd bring in different people in, you know, because we went on for years, you know, you lose friends, you gain friends and so you would you call them soldiers, you know, to do certain things, but they wouldn't know the full information. People like maybe go and pick something up, the smaller jobs, basically. And then pretty much to be honest with you, people kind of had it inkling that we were doing something, you know, because it's hard to hide. You know, when you when you're driving around in nice cars and watches and whatever. It's difficult as well because everybody wants a wee piece of the pie. Well, this is it and being from Cheetah Mill, you have to be careful because there's a lot of dangerous people about. Yeah. And us being nonviolent people. So you have to kind of like, I mean, I was lucky. There was a guy from Cheetah Mill called Aki, not Purple Aki. But he's he's well, he's passed away now. But he was quite a notorious person. I think he was killed by the guy from Stropport, Aaron Coglan, of a dispute, and he had my back. So I kind of like, we were kind of like strutting around Cheetah Mill. We knew this guy's got a back, so no one else could touch us. A bit of protection when you're giving him money or anything. No, no, no money, but, you know, obviously, like maybe a nice watch or something, you know, to keep him happy. It wasn't costing us anything at the time. So what kind of stuff after like all when you started all done phones, did you go move up higher? Did you get money at any point? Yeah, yeah, yeah. One time we was in France and we decided to withdraw some money out in the bank, which is very rare, because the thing is, we never really wanted to show our faces or a lot of the time they send in chauffeurs or drivers or couriers. So this time we had Mr Al Ffaird's details. This is before you had Harrods and everything else. And we didn't realise at the time it was Heiney Ffaird, his ex-wife. And so again, we've got dressed up. I got my mate to front air because he looked older. And we've gone in to the bank to withdraw. I think in them days is 20,000 francs. And the manager and that comes out. And I'm thinking it's looking out and they seem concerned. So it's, you know, what's the issue? And he goes, sir, we have issues. This card is a lady's card. So this is like thinking on the spot. I turn around and say, well, don't you understand? In our Islamic law, we don't let our women come into the bank. I apologise. Oh, so sorry, sir. We're so sorry. It gives the money and the thrill of that, you know. You can't beat it with 20,000 francs in them days. I mean, I don't know what the equivalent is now. But yeah, very rarely would you want to, you know, front it because you're in danger, aren't you? If you want it, you know, something goes like that. You could have easily gone the other way and you're arrested and that's it. When was the first time you got caught for that? Well, well, 97 was the main, you know, the highest. Is that the first time you've been caught? No, to be honest with you, I was caught once before right at the beginning and that was due to with a friend of mine, he got caught and he panicked and he gave my name in so I had to do a bit of community service. And then from that, from years, well, up to 97, so we were talking probably 88, 89. So and there was another, luckily for me again, where my mates, they were in Holland and they were going to get some watches and stuff. And it was it was really big. It was on the TV and they got arrested as they were going to take off to stop the plane and took them off. But I was I was there, look like, so I got away with that one. And then 97 was the main one, obviously. Yeah, so you are going through the ranks just wanting more and more and more. Yeah, yeah, you know, you become greedy. That's right, yeah, to be honest with you, you know, start us off with a pair of trainers and a few cell phones that's just you're dressing up as a prince. We was like regarding us bit like Robin Hood, to be honest, around our area, because, you know, we was getting it and those obviously not everyone was poor, but we was handing it out a lot, you know, but at the same time, it was greed, totally. Yeah, and there's always victims as well. Do you know what I mean? There's always victims as well. So in the 97 heist, what was before you planned the two million heist? What was what was the lead up to this? Were you just wanting more? You want to keep pushing the boundaries? Yeah, yeah, that was it. You know, we was, you know, were you comfortable then? Did you have money? Yeah, yeah, because what we what we got onto was getting watches. What we realised was the watches with, like, say a Rolex. That was 10,000 or 20,000. You know, you'd get a good markup on it because the jewellers at the local jewellers that buy me and put it in the shop and, you know, without any papers or anything? No, with the papers or you had the papers. You have to, yeah, because you've got to have the papers. Yeah, without the papers, then the watch isn't worth much. So and then we realised, oh, right. OK, this is where you can set of phones and train is to track to track suits. It's, you know, this is where we can make good money. Thousands. Yeah, we're kind of watches, Rolexes. Dates owners, a lot of Rolexes with the ones in demand. I mean, in them days, you didn't have the Jacobs and whatnot, but Rolexes with the good sellers. Yeah, so 97, then. One of the biggest tastes you've done, but very well known now with the two million views. Yeah, in them days, it was in the top side. So how do you go from try to scam the banks to then dressing up to try and scam a jewellers? Was that not about out there where you think because your face is going to be seen because the CCTV and stuff was out then? It was, but our face wasn't seen. You see the only person I got seen was a prince. And then so that was one person and the second person to be seen was the guy who basically snitched on us. He first of all, he went to Woolworth's in Manchester, which is literally on the corner for where I live. And they keep the CCTV for extra few months because it's Cheetah Mill. And when they did their investigations, because they had a big team looking out for us, they realised, right, OK, we've got this picture of the prince. And then we've got this phone that's been bought in Woolworth's and with phones, once you're ringing people, you know, they realised, right, OK, the phone calls. What happened was, sorry, the prince rang me off his own phone because the battery ran out and that was a link to Manchester and the Woolworths realised they had the footage of the kid who later on got caught with the one piece of jewellery that I ever got caught was a £90,000 watch and it's left with a newspaper cutting of the heist, saying the salt and the sting because at that time, no-one even knew, you know, and I think it was, like, your brinx mat at the top and we were seven in them days. And it's always disputed, you know, like you say, two million from our depositions, it's always been disputed from five to two million. No-one really knows, to be honest with you. So how did the idea of that come about to then pretend to be the saltan? We see the richest man on the planet at that time. He was the richest man in the world. What did he do? He was, well, probably fraud. No, no, well, he's born into it, royalty. So he was born into it. I mean, he lived such a lavish life, so he'd be like, he'd get Michael Jackson at his son's wedding and stuff like that, you know, I mean, just like the Saudi Arabs now, you know, the rich ones. So what we realised is we was looking at the shop, Bijan in Beverly Hills and we found out that the Prince had been there a few months before. So we thought, right, okay, let's use this. So it took weeks and weeks because in them days it was difficult. You can't just type someone's name on the internet and it'd come up. Everything would be phone calls, reading. We got these, over the years, we found out those, these books out. I don't think they do now. They were caught like, what would they come out now? Who's who in the Arab world? And in them books it'd say what they were, where they live. It actually gives it information, which was gold, you know. And they weren't cheap to buy in them days either. They were like 70 pound a book. So we had a few of them books and then you'd get all the glossy magazines, hello and stuff like that. And you'd just read, you'd have to read and phone calls. And I mean, we were stuck in a flat in Manchester for about six weeks to actually finally coming through with it. People see, over the years, the amount of time people say, oh, mate, it was easy in them days. And I said to him, no, mate, it was even harder, you know. Less information. That's right, yeah. Had to work, it's hard. So talk me right through from day one, right through till yeas get busted. Day one, like it says, flicking through magazines, board, flicking through magazines, see, read that, Bijan, you know, this exclusive shop. How much were they saying he was worth? Who's the salt and the green eye? Paul Wiens? Yeah, I mean, they couldn't even say. As they stole the wretches? Or is it the Arabs and stuff? Yeah, I mean, it probably still is, to be honest with you. Cos that wealth, you can't even count it. So you're still alive? You know what, I think recently, I don't know, it's one of them, someone's died recently, I have to be honest, I don't keep in touch with him. Do you think he would have heard about it? Probably not. Probably not. And this is the thing you see. So when we were doing these high flying people, like let's say it's yourself, and you're worth five million, and 50,000 goes out of your account, you don't even deal with your bank account. So, and they're going to get reimbursed, you know, they're going to get reimbursed from American Express. So, I mean, I tell you one thing though, what you just mentioned there, we had a choice of running a trial. And at that time, cos what we did was, when we did it, you had the highest and then you had, we'd wrangled a jewelers in Australia and Singapore. So it's like which one comes through first. And when we rang, when we rang these other countries up in Australia, you're going to laugh, yeah? We went back to, we ordered like nine pairs of Timberland trainers and then you've ordered these diamonds there that were worth millions. So we thought, right, okay, we've got a choice. If you run a trial, this is going to cost a taxpayer millions, yeah? Cos it's all these different countries and then they're going to come and have to give evidence. So run a trial, you get found guilty, you're going to get slammed even worse. And at that time, my QC was one of the top five in England, Jonathan Goldberg. And we decided, cos I knew at that time, it would have ended up being a cutthroat defence. You're blaming me, he's blaming him. And we're all going to go, we're going to get slammed. And if you don't throw in a guilty, you're not going to get the credit of your sentence. So we ended up for, right, okay, we'll throw our hands in. And that's why I did, well, I got three and a half years. How many people were involved? Well, those, I'd say six. And there was only three of us that did a sentence and three, well, were never to be seen. So 50% used to get done? Yeah, yeah. But then three, well, to be honest with you, was they didn't pay major roles on a fault yourself. There's no point in sinking the whole ship. You know, I wasn't going to dub someone else in, you know, even though I was feeling the heat of the kid who got caught in Woolworth's. So he's basically stuck everyone in? Yeah, yeah, he's, I mean, because what happened was they got a remanded first, two of them, you've got the prince and you've got the kid who got caught with the phone and the piece of jewellery. So he's banged to rights, yeah. So we was getting messages across because he was from Cheat Mill, you know, we've kind of like grew up together. Because when you're going to do something like this, you're not just going to bring someone else in. You've got to, you know, you've got to kind of like know. But then again, you know, you still don't know how people will react when the shit is a fad. Under pressure and you've seen it for a few years, these so-called tough men and bad men, they're the first ones that are asked to collapse. Well, James, the thing is, we've never claimed to be tough men, yeah. But on the day we knew and I knew, if you're going to get into this business, somewhere down the line, you're going to end up doing good, yeah. And, you know, we're not talking 20 years, 30 years. You're talking a few years and you're out. And if you can't handle that, then mate, you know, you're better off getting into it. It's all part and parcel of the business doing that. That's right, yeah. So when you're done then, you started looking at the results and you realised, okay, this can happen. So how did it, what was the steps to eventually the day it happened? Oh mate, we hardly slept, yeah. Hardly slept. Of excitement or? Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. Cos what it was was, the thing is, we never spoke about money, yeah. When you're the richest man, you're not going to ask, you know, how much is this piece going to be. We were quite sure that it's going to be millions, you know. Cos when we used to speak to him over the phone, we used to say, look, we want the best of the best, the best gradient, you know, the VVSs and everything else. And leading up to it, again, cos we were talking to different countries as well, again, we was on Singapore, Australia, the beers in Australia, we was on the phone to them. And then we realised, this is the one, this is the one that's going to come through. So we started to neglect them, apart from the Timberland, they'd already come. So, oh mate, honestly, even now I want to think about the excitement. Cos what you're thinking is, I've had a ledger, I've had a ledger, it's cost us £150,000, yeah, of a banker's credit card from Belgium. And the ledger, cos you're thinking, I'm thinking, if you're on the other side, yeah, and you're shopping for the prince, you know, expense, it's nothing, you know what I mean. We flew the ledger over, and in my eyes, I'm thinking, there's greed from them side, them as well, and those cos they're thinking commission, you know. So, the ledger flies over, picks them up, we've already, we're not sure now, when they land, we're kind of like winging it as well, we're not sure whether to me, cos none of us want to me, you know, right, face to face. And we're thinking, what do we do here? Let's try and get them up to Manchu, cos we're lazy as well, we're thinking, you know what, so I've rang up Manchu's United, yeah, and I said, look, the sultan of Brunai is thinking of coming home to watch a game, and he wants a box, you know, to entertain him, so might entertain him, get the box, and do one while they're watching the game. And even now, if you Google Manchu United, and you know, Google Famous, people that have wanted to watch United and stuff, the sultan of Brunai comes up, well, it was me. So, at the time we're playing, I'm thinking, oh, and then it clicked cos, like it says, over the years we've had different people come and do stuff with us, and one of my best mates, he lived in London in Slam, so I thought, you know what, and I trusted him, cos the thing is, if you're going to parcel like that, you just don't want anyone picking it up. It's not like, say it was you, you pick it up, and then you say, turn around and say, you know what, fuck off, do you want? You know what I mean? I can't call the police, can I? You know, I'd have to ring a care. But, so yeah, as we're mulling him, we're thinking, what should we do? Shall we drive down? Cos we're fucked, you know, this is weeks in this apartment, making phone calls, reading, research, and excitement, you know what I mean? We're knackered, and so I thought, I've clicked, I go, you know what, let me ring my guy, so ring him, and so look. And over the years, he'd done stuff with us anyway. He knew what was into, but it was never millions, you know? So I never mentioned, again, I didn't mention money either, so look, get dressed up, get presentable, and go to the airport, you're going to get picked up, hide seven limousines, he gets picked up. And then, at the same time, what we did was, the ease of the little details, you see, when the line was there, a limousine for them, with flowers waiting for him. So he gets picked up, they go to the Sheraton, where they were, and at the same time, we're talking to them, they've had a lovely meal the night before, everything's come. How many of them were from America? And they never questioned anything? Well, you... They did not have security with them? No. With the jeweller either? No, mate. Could you not have just fucking took it off them when they were coming out of the airport? Well, again... Like a snack, a grab and... Yeah, the thing is, we were... I was thinking ahead in the sense that, we don't want to... There's no way we're going to commit violence, but we still want the jeweller, you know? Cos once you get into stuff like that, you're looking at big jail, you know? Whereas fraud is a white collar crime. And so, to be honest with you, we weren't willing to, you know, go that way. We've never been violent before. We wasn't going to start now. So when they've been winding down the next day, they met at the Sheraton, seven museums pull up, he's in the middle. There's an SCS bodyguard that's been hired, he's not got a clue, you know, what's going on regarding the fraud. And he was a bit of a unit as well. So what's happening, he's sat in the car, we're on the phone too, and so on, what's going on. Cos they're not sure what's happening either. You know, cos, again, like it says, this is where we're playing it by here. So I said to Ryan, what's going on? They go out, they've got this parcel. I said, right, well, tell the bodyguard to go over and tell him that you want to view it in private at the Dorchester. Cos I think he owned, I think he owned the Dorchester. Well, that's where he used to stay when he used to come over. So now this is where in the car papers, they've turned round and says the bodyguard, the SCS bodyguard has gone over, they were reluctant to giving the bag and he's snatched it. Mate, why is he going to snatch a bag off him? You know, he's just there doing his job. You know, there's no way he's snatched a bag. They give it to him, but to cover their backsides, they've turned round and says, the bodyguard snatched it, passed it to my mate. He's cool as a cucumber, sat in the bloody limousine. So I'm like, right, what's going on? And he goes, we're part two. I go, you got the parcel? Cos, yeah, I'm going to tell the chauffeur to drive off as he's drove off and talked it right. Where are you now? You know, it goes right. You know, we've got with a bit away. So go, that's when I think this is what's happened. The chauffeur, yeah, he's only got a bladder problem, right? He needs a week. So he's asked my mate to my excuse himself to go to the toilet. So I don't know exactly what's going on. All I know is he's sat in the back of the limousine. He's away. I know he's got the parcel. So I'm a bit more relaxed. So go, listen, what's going on? He goes, oh, the chauffeur's gone for a piss. And go, what are you doing? Cos I'm sat in the fucking limousine. I go, mate, get the fuck out of there. Get out of there and do one. He's got out, legged it to the tube and got home. And that was that. The jewellery's vanished, mate. It's the next day. I said to him, I've made him catch a train up to Leeds, not Manchester, drove up to Leeds, got a parcel. Went to a secure location, opened it. Mate, fuck mate. Mate, you need sunglasses. The shiny is them teeth. And that was that? Mate, yeah, well, I said to him, I go, look, cos I knew he will definitely get a knock on the door, you know, because there would be some, and from the airport, there's some camera footage. Not major, you know, it was not like now where you've got cameras everywhere. So I had a feeling he would get a knock on the door. So when they left the limo, they threw out the package, or they take it into the hotel. Who? The jellers from LA? Well, what happened is, they've arrived the night before. They've been shipped to the hotel. They've been, well, no one's there, but everything's come. They've had me hose wine, whatever, relaxed. And they're probably thinking, wow, you know, we're quids in, you know, flown over by a private jet. So next morning, they've got up, and that's when they shitted the fan, as they say. Cos we was obviously on the phone to him, saying, look, you know, he's coming, you know. And again, because we were playing it by ear at the time as well, we didn't give him that much information. Did they ever get to meet the fake prince? No, not physically. I mean, only from, well, let's say, they're at the front of the hotel. He's in one of the limousines. So they probably didn't even see him. So they've pulled up with the limousines, all the limousines there. Seven limousines. And they think, OK, the prince is there. How did they speak to at the hotel? Well, no. Was it just all phone calls? All phone calls, bro. And they fell for that hookling in Sincar? Mate, yeah, but look, this is it, you see. It's great. You know, it's great for them as well, you know. But if you're getting, listen, if you're in a private plane, you're just thinking, you're not thinking this is a setup. Exactly, exactly. And this is the thing that's probably sealed that. It's gone on for weeks, brother. I mean, there was a time... Yeah, I remember the rangage, because we had a phone, yeah. I know the page you go phone. And we says, obviously we was in the flat and I ran in the kitchen and turned the extract to hold on. And it says, I'm on a satellite phone, I'm on an aeroplane, you know. There was a time when they've... Cos we had, I mean, I've got, in my depositions, it's got the prince's, palace's number. But if you're going to ring that number, you're not going to get through to the prince, you're going to get through to your secretary and they'd ring and then we'd ring him back and say, you know, this is went on for weeks, you know. So I think by the time they got on the plane, they thought, you know, everything's kosher. When did they put the red flags up when the limo drove away? Well, this is it, from what I know, they started... That's okay, no, it's okay. They started, well, soon as they drove off the port, wait a minute, you know, they stood there, these limoesines have drove off, you know. That's when the bodyguard, SES bodyguard was with them, you know. So they started showing it, apparently, showing it on him and he's like, I'm doing my job. So that's when, I think, they rang the chauffer, one of the other chauffers rang the chauffer who went for a leak and by that time, everything's gone mate, you know. He's pissing his pants and we're laughing our way. So that was that between two and five mo? Was it a briefcase, opened it up? What kind of stuff was on it? What, like your watch there, but encrusted with diamonds. Everything was the best, I mean, honest to God. There was a necklace in there, which was worth, this was probably the biggest item, was worth half a million, four-sided diamonds, but the clarity, amazing. Honest to God mate. I'll never forget that, you know. You have to take a moment now. Yeah, cos it was 21 years ago and talking about it and looking well. It just brings it back. I'm not doing it justice. All I can tell you, it was amazing. You had everything in sapphires, rubies, necklaces. I mean, there's about 18 pieces. And the cheapest one was about, well the watch that I give to the kid is caught, that was 90 grand and that's the only thing that was ever found. So even though, in that life of crime, you know yourself, everybody's greedy, were you thinking I could have got more? What kind of stuff, what was the most expensive stuff thing in that jewellers at that time, do you know? The necklace, that was half a million. So they brought that anyway? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, well the thing is, they could have bought half the shop, you know. Like I said to you, it's always disputed and the reason it's disputed is because when they landed, I said to them, I got to look, cos again I was thinking ahead, I said to them, look, customs going on, come onto the plane. I said, don't declare the goods because then we're going to have to pay heavy tax on it. So again, greed on their part, they didn't. That's why it's disputed. I've read from 2.5 to 5 million dollars it was. It's what happened to the two people that they get sacked? To bodies, you know. Are they show up at court or anything? This is it, they didn't need to, you know. Cos at the end of the day I fought to myself, I fought long enough, I fought, if you run a trial, it's good, it is going to cost the taxpayer millions, you know. Cos, and first of all, it was already in the papers, imagine the Sultan of Brunai, the Sultan of Brunai is not going to come to England to give evidence, you know. And I thought, cos it was already in the papers, I fought. And that's why I think we've got, well, I've got three and a half years, cos to be honest with you, at that time there was a guy in London and he did something not similar, but it was a big amount, 2 million. And the guy, he was, let's say, he was from a rich family and he got to community service for 2 million. So I'm thinking, if he's getting 2 million, for 2 million he's getting community service, I really thought I'd be getting about 2 years, I know people be thinking, is he taking a piss, but... So white colour crime, no violence, no weapons, it's quite comical, I had a previous, small previous, so I didn't have a record to be fair, I had some good references. Do you get done for conspiracy, if you want? Yeah, well this is it, you see, we got done for five council conspiracies to steal, and that's when, obviously, when it's a conspiracy, pre-planned and everything else, you're going to get more. Even though they only had one witness against you? No, well, the witness, well, it was... Yeah, the guy, your friend who stuck you in. Well... What did he get? To me, he walked, he was on, he was on... They were on a man before they come to me, so he was, he literally did about five months, and he walked me, and the prince walked, because I turned around and said, look, he had nothing to do with it. Again, if you're going down, why take everyone with you, and to be fair to him, he did it as a favour to me. Obviously, he knew there was something dodger, because over the years, he'd been with us, but again, he did six months, and he walked. Was he dressed up? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was only, so you'd done the three and a half, did you get offered any deals to give the jails back to get more time cut? Well, apparently, well, when I was in court, we said that we had a debt with the gambling debt with the Russian mafia, and they took the jails, so that was it, really. There wasn't no real deals cut, and there wasn't going to be, so... And that was that? So what was life like inside when you got the three and a half? You'd have got more respect, though, that you didn't turn Queens? Yeah, well, first of all, because it was national in the papers and stuff, when we went in, in a certain way, we were treated slightly different, you know, everyone was like, big in his open store. Secondly, where I was, I was in Brixton, and it was 23-hour bangle, proper old-school jail. You'd only go downstairs to get your meals, and looking back, I'm glad it was like that, because further down the line when I got to my cat D and stuff, because he had stories, because it was my first time, so I'd rather doing it like that, tough, maybe realise that one thing is, I don't want to go back, because I remember I did six months in Brixton, then I got out on bail, and that was my mate. They really messed, my uncle, he's an accountant, he put my bail down, and in them days of talking, he put his house down, half a million, and they messed him about, it took, you know, they really messed it, they didn't want to let me out, but they had to surrender me passport, sign on at the police station. After the week? Yeah, yeah, yeah, three times, once a day, yeah, because they thought these kids, they're going to do one, but I remember the blessing was, when I got out, my missus was pregnant, we had a baby girl then, so I got to see her being born, and then I went back to do what was the other 12 months, so it was a real blessing for me, because it's my first child, I got to see her born, and then I remember when I was inside, and I remember getting a picture of her, when she must have been about eight months, and mate, I looked at, because I had nothing else, I didn't see no pictures of her, hardly getting any phone calls, and I remember looking at her picture, I've never thought, I've got a picture at home, and remember looking at her thinking, man, you know, that's priceless, what I've missed there, seeing her growing up. So yeah, I mean, when you're in prison, the way I look at it, you don't exist, you know, I've had friends who have been in prison, they've lost their fathers, their moms, their brothers, and luckily for me, touch would nothing like that happen to me, but it did happen there, been one of my friends, and it's, mate, you're helpless, something happens at home, there's nothing you can do, you know. Your life's took away, but again, you do the crime, you do the time, it's so cheesy. It is, mate, it is, but, you know. Was that a wake-up call for you then, because I've had, I've been to many of your knows, and I've had family members coming in handcuffs. Yeah, yeah, me, yeah, yeah. Well, look, you don't come from my background, like with my parents, you know, me dad just working, never, mate. You didn't even get a parking ticket, general giant, God rest his soul, I lost him 10 years ago. You're sorry to hear that. Yeah, listen to this, right? So when he passed away, right? Well, first of all, what happened is, when they raided my house, yeah, when they come there at the beginning, I think like, there was about 20 of them, mate. They went through everything. There's a suitcase there, it's my dad's, yeah. He used to work, he lived and worked in Denmark, a suitcase there, yeah, and they said, right, they think, you know, this is it, yeah. So the goat was right. It's one of them, you know them coded ones, three digits, they said, right, we're gonna smash this open, what's the code? So we ran my dad, guess what the code was? 007, yeah. Second thing is, when he passed away, the suitcase, that same suitcase, when I opened it, you know what, he had my car papers and pictures, yeah, cos over the years, what happened is, when I went in, he was distraught, I remember the first time he come to see me in Brixton, this is, and he was a general giant. He's never been to prison before, and he sees me, and he's like, crying me, oh man, he's heartbreaking, you know what I mean, I told it together, I said to him, look, dad, don't come and see me here again, you know, it's a bit of a mission cos you have to go from Manchester to London, and the humiliation of probably, no, when they're going through, they probably parted him down and stuff, he's never been through like that before, and it made me realise, man, I don't, you know, I put my family through a lot, you know, but at the same time, what happened is over time, when his friends and people who talked to him, they jolted and said, listen, yeah, he did a crime, yeah, but trust me, you know, reading to it, it's quite funny, it's quite comical, he didn't shoot anyone, you know, and he didn't physically rob anyone, you know, I'm not trying to justify it, but do you know what I mean? Of course, but it's okay, I was here telling a story, and people are engrossed by stories like this, but again, there's always victims, even the two people who got robbed, they could have potentially lost their jobs, they could have potentially have kids to feed as well, and do you know what I mean? So when you're doing a life of crime, it affects everyone, and if you're sitting in prison, even your dad, he's probably thinking heartbroken that the way he's never thought he'd see his son in prison, and that's for anybody watching, maybe go down a life of crime or whatever, that is the hard thing, because when I interviewed Paul Ferris, he says that when everybody walks away, the hardest thing is seeing your family members walk through the door while you're still there and you can't do nothing. Yeah, 100% mate, I've got, you know, like I said, I've got kids, yeah, and it's more of a fireman, you know. Every time I sit with him, I tell him, especially my two boys, I say, listen, you know, don't go down this way, you know, what I did was a long time ago, 21 years ago, James, I've not done anything since then, yeah. People think, you know, I'm still in the game. I mean, over the years, the amount of people that have approached me to do stuff, yeah, and I said, no, you know, I did something, and I know there's people out there on social media or messaging me and this and that, you know, saying, oh, he's glamorising it. I'm not, you know. I didn't ask VICE to make a documentary. They approached me, same with the film, same with the first documentary, The Art of Crime, which was on Channel 4, well, in Manilium. So if I can put one kid off or even my kids off and go that way, then I'm doing something right. And again, I've been speaking before this COVID situation. I was going to do some mentoring at schools. It's something that I really want to get into. I want to go into school, speak about my life and tell these kids, look, you know, it's not what it's made out to be, you know. How hard was it then to coming out? Obviously, your reputation becomes higher, it enhances your criminal portfolio when you're doing heist like that. That's a turn-on for every criminal and the son that people are going to jail for robbing bookies and banks, maybe getting 30, 40 grand at doing 10 years. If you're doing tons for two and five million just by phone calls, that then you become a target for the underworld to get you involved. So how hard was it for you to make changes? Well, this is it. It's hard, and still living in the same area. You know, people would, you know, approach me all the time and it was just, you know, the first thing that happened to me, honestly, when I came out, I came out of prison, I'm just sat leaning to life. I mean, it's not like I did a major sentence. I've come out and I get approached by Channel 4 and I thought, is this a wind-up? You know, because you never heard of stuff like this. I got approached by Channel 4 and I really did think it was a setup or something with some hoax and they wanted to do the documentary which was called The Art of Crime. So we went back and forth over a few months. I got my solicits involved. I don't trust any of me, you know. So I got involved in that straight away, pretty much, a few months from getting out. So, I mean, that went on for two years and then again, I was carrying on with life, doing work and then I get approached by another production company. James, every, you know, this was every few years and I'm like, right, okay, what's this about? Oh, right, we want to sign you up on a retainer who want to make a film. So like, right, okay, fine. So they had me on another retainer for two years where I couldn't talk to anyone, nothing materialised. And then prodding along, what happens then? I get a phone call and it's some TV series that's getting made in Manchester with, do you remember Lockstock and Snatch? Yeah, yeah. The Black Guy with the Dress with the Jewelry Show. Lenny James, now he's massive in America now. It was a film around him based in prison, him and his brother, and they wanted some real life characters. So they go to me, look. We've seen your documentary and he must have liked something about me. I said, we want you to be in it. I'm like, being what? I'm not an actor. They go, listen, trust me, you know, it's fine. And then I'm going there and then I'm meeting Lenny James and I'm looking at him thinking, wow, you know, actor and all that. And he's looking at me and thinking, wow, real life criminal. And I'm thinking, what am I doing here? You know, I did that. Even when a BAFTA was called the Buried, it was a six-part series, I was in that. In bits, you know, it was like it was a major role. I'll tell you one thing. I think it was episode four is a scene where I've had to, we're in the gym together, yeah, and I've had to snatch, it was over drugs, I've had to argue with him. And there's like four cameras, two on him, two on me, me, I was like, I started sweating, I was fluffing my lines a bit, yeah, I'll be honest with you, because again, like it doesn't, I might be a blogger, but I'm not an actor. So I remember him, you know, he took me to the cycle, listen, just relax, you know, just say the lines and we did and, you know. So the experience of my life, I've come out of prison, yeah, and then things are just starting to happen and then they died of death and, you know, I was working and I was having more kids, I've had a few marriages, mate, you know. How many? I'm on my fifth. People say, I think I'm almost like wedding cake. Yeah, I'm on my fifth. Five, six, fifth time a charm. Yeah, mate, yeah, and we've got a little baby. How many kids you've got? Kids, this will be the seventh. How many different women? Three different women, mate. You look as bad as me, mate. You're my hero. But life, no matter what your life is, no matter what you've done, you can get opportunities good or bad, no matter what you've done in the past, you always have opportunities to present themselves. It's how you want to take out those opportunities, what you want to take, whether it's good or bad. It's all down to the individual now. It's difficult, especially coming out of prison. How do you think now that £2 million heist, £2 million, £5 million heist that you've done to now, do you think it could be done as easy, if not easier now? Or do you think there'd be video calls and stuff? No, I think that, See, you hear stories, someone's pressed a button, sent £5 million somewhere, but it's not money, money, it's in a bank somewhere, it's a paper trail, and with CCTV and Proceeds of Crime and everything else, I think, to be honest with you, obviously I've been out of the game two years, but you hear stories, but I think it's, in some ways it's harder, but then when I look back with our heist, every little thing we have to do ourselves, so with technology, it was harder then as well. So it's... Do you ever think about it? Think about... Stuff like that, how you could, oceans I love it and think, these are kind of, that's doable, does it still? Catch me if you can. Because let's face it, when you're trying to be good on life, that is boring, like... Oh mate, but this is, you know what, I think this is why I've never... But it's easier, it's easier. There's not pressure where you need to look for CID, or you need to look for the police everywhere, you have to change phones, or you're talking in fucking lingo, but it is, you do think... I'll tell you what James, I swear to God, I sleep well at night, because I know I'm not doing nothing right now. That's the good side of it. The bad side is, probably because I've been through so many marriages, probably because I've never really settled, because I'm always been torn of having this glamorous lifestyle to what I'm working, and being the good dad, the good... I was going to say good husband, but... Better not say that one. Yeah, you can put that in the same part as you have. But... Yeah, you know what? I see something, what you said I watched the other day, my attention span is very small, and I do find it hard to settle, and I blame it on the life that I had. Trust issues? Yeah, trust issues, yeah. I'd say trust issues. I always think, look, I'm very close to my kids, yeah. I like to think so anyway, and I look at them and, you know, I just think, is this... It's like me talking with you now, me being on vice and documentaries and films, yeah. I... 100%, I don't know how it reflects on them, you know. I mean, my oldest daughter, she's going to be talking to me. I've got four birthdays this month, in January. You better go and fucking do another Robert in me. I'm telling you now, four birthdays, yeah. So, I sometimes think, you know, how's it, because I've spoke to him about it, but then I always think with the dad, they're never going to be that. Fully honest. Yeah, but I've always tried to explain what I did was obviously wrong. You don't want to go down that road, and I will do going on forward, you know, going forward. You know, I mean, I don't read the comments on some of the interviews and whatever, but people flipping and sending them, oh, have you seen this? Have you seen this? And it's like, you know, I mean, a lot of it's good, obviously, but a lot of it's bad. And I think you don't know me, yeah. You know, you're looking at this, something that I did 20 years ago, yeah. You know, since then, I'm a changed man, you know. But don't look at the comments. People are fucking idiots. You know, listen, I remember, I watched y Orokin, yeah. He used to be my favourite podcaster, but you are now. And I remember he said that, you know, he was talking to a UFC fighter, and he said, you'd never read the comments, don't read the comments. And I didn't, mate, it's when they get sent to you. But I'm going to make good with it, mate, I'm going to make good with it. But yeah, that's the only thing you can do for your kids. There's nothing you can do, you can't change the past. It's who you were back then. And as we get older, we kind of come softer and more vulnerable. And then you think about everything. Because when you're in a life of crime, you're selfish as fuck. You don't care who you're hurting, what you're doing. You just want to make a learner to go and waste it and live a fake lifestyle. But when you start getting older and you start trying to change and make better decisions, you understand that. It's how fucking deluded we were when you go back to the past and think what you'd have done for money is scary. If you were to do it fucked over, nobody's, there's no loyalty. Even though that man's stuck in a court, we're always wanting that bit extra. We're always wanting that bit more. He's just greed. She's constant greed then. But the fact that you've come out and you're still trying to create a positive life and stayed out of trouble, stayed out of prison, that's the difficult thing. Especially when you're seeing a picture of your kid. If that doesn't want to make you change your life then fucking nothing will. Do you know what I mean? So what's the plans for you now then? You want to try and get a book, fellam? Well look, if anyone's out there is interested in the book because we've done two documentaries, done a feature film. I think there's another film because the film that was made Plastic really what they did was they glamourised it, made it to Hollywood and they only incorporated the heist at the end. So I think really if you sit down with me there's more to me than just the heist. Just throwing the five marriages. One of the marriages was a multi-racial marriage and that was... To be honest with you, I messed up there. I didn't know how to handle it because I'm a British born Pakistani. I'm quite, let's say, a modern British born. But at the same time I've got certain ageing values or ways, should I say. And the girl, she was my second wife just in case if you're thinking. She was from a little place in Merseyside called Liso. When we got together I left my first wife and my daughter. So they'd left the country and me and Liso, we went on and got married. But I was a bit traumatised because my daughter had left the country and it affected our marriage, obviously. What's happened is we were trying for a baby and at that time she got checked out but she needed hormone treatment. I mean I could talk about it now because I think she knows deep down. I ended up splitting up because I panicked. I'm thinking, I've lost my daughter, she's gone now. I don't know what I'm going to see her and the girl that I'm with that I love maybe not be able to have kids and I panicked, which was wrong. And we split up and from then I'm here now basically. But what I'm saying is to my life there's been so many different things. Of course, you know, and with the film Plastic, it was... That was another crazy thing, mate. Again, from years of just carrying on, doing me a thing, yeah. And I used to go to a gym, just not far from here. And it was a bit of an exclusive gym and you had a lot of rich housewives and one of them. A brother-in-law on this film company, Gateway Films. They made films like The Six Boys, Rise of the Foot Soldier. I mean, Damn Rise of the Foot Soldier, there's one, two, three, four, five. There's about as many as there was my wives. So they've milked that. You can rise of the prince, mate, part five with your wives. So what's happened is she was one of my best friends with personal training and he's come to me and said, listen, Saki, this guy wants to talk to you from London and we're out in a film. And this is like we're talking 2000 and round about 10, yeah. So it's about six, seven years after the other things, the documentary and the series were buried. So because at that time I thought this is done, you know, my thing is done now. And I've never again chased anyone else. It's like, you know, would you like to do this on my life? So this guy wants to meet up. So I've said to him, go right and tell him to come to the lorry. If anything, we'll get a nice meal out of it. That's all I'm thinking. I think he's probably nothing. So met up with him and the name was Chris Howard and they said, look, we want to make a film. We want to make a film about we've seen your documentary and we want to make a film about your heist. So me being a blackie that I have, I just thought, right, okay. You know, they said, right, we'll give you this, this, this and we'll do this, this, this. And I said, no, I've just gone for like way over the odds. And what's happened is he's turned around and he goes, I've got to make a phone call. He's on the phone. I'm thinking to myself, I'm thinking, what the fuck have you done here? It's not like you got everyone knocking your door down for this now. So he goes, look, he goes, I can't sanction this. I'm going to have to go away, speak to our partners and they went away. And I remember him saying to me, we'll get you three tickets for the premiere. I go, mate, that won't even cover my kids. You know what I mean? I ended up giving me 20 tickets, flew me to Mami, a business class with me and me and the ex-wife at the time. And we made this film based in Mami because they wanted to do Vegas because Vegas had been overkilled with the oceans 11 and so on. And so, yes, I did that for two years. The film came out before the film comes out because it was made by a small British company. What's happened is paramount pictures of, paramount pictures of I've took it on you. So they've invited us to the Paramount Studios and it's me and these the two guys, you and the film company, and we sat across this board. We're talking 10 people, 10 people, and I'm sat down and this saying, fuck me, what the fuck am I doing here? Paramount Studios, they just made that film, Noa, with Russell Crowe. And so they took it on to promoting and stuff. And I remember the PR woman that they gave me a few months before that. She was running round for Russell Crowe and now she's running round for me from Cheetah Mill. You know what I mean? It's just like the experience is mad at me. But doing stuff like that and having the past of that heist. It is a turn on for directors, publishers. Has nobody ever came forward to do your book? I'm surprised at that. You've not had any offers. I think what it was is James because the documentary came out. You know, the first thing that happened was the documentary. So maybe because normally it's a book, film, mine was the other way round. You had this documentary and then I signed a couple of deals that didn't come about. And then obviously plastic came in 2012. So I mean, I don't look, you never know. It might come. It doesn't matter, it's not happening. I didn't think, I mean, I've done numerous articles. We're talking on GQ to, you know, from your local newspaper to your national. So see what happens. So that's the thing, man. It's weird that I always say it, but true crime does sell. Criminals are the biggest views. I could have the most, the biggest celebrity in the world, but I could have an unknown who's done some life of crime and it could be bigger. So people are intrigued by that kind of stuff. If you look at Netflix, all the top programmes is true crime. Yeah, yeah, it is. But the funny thing is, even when you came out of prison, no matter your crime, there's an interest in it from directors, publishers, because again, true crime selves. I never fought when I, in them days when I came out, you know, there was a really no social media and stuff. I was told you when Channel 4 got in touch, I thought it's a mind up, you know? And it was unheard especially from where I was from. It was unheard of a criminal coming out of prison, getting approached to talk about what he's done and stuff like that. And it happened. So what's the plans then for yourself? Over 20 years ago, you'd done this heist. Now you're fifth marriage, deep, seven kids. Five kids, seven. No, six kids, one on the way. A lot of people don't even know about the one on the way. Congratulations. Thank you, mate. Thank you. So, yeah, life is a, as we all know, it's a roller coaster. So you've got another kid on the way, your life's clean. What's the plans for the future kicking on? Plans for the future is getting to mentoring with kids. I want to do, you know, I really want to help kids, not especially where I live, you know, there's still a lot of crime, you know? And if I can help any kids staying away from crime, that'd be a big thing. Definitely not getting married again. You know, that's me done. No more wedding cakes, just birthday cakes. And see what life brings. I'm working, I've been working for a long while. Funny enough, I'm working security, not credit card security. But yeah. Case in the joint. So. How can you get a job in security with your past? Yeah, because it was being. Over 10 years ago? Bro, it was 20 years ago. You know, you can't be, you know, and look, you know, I've just remembered something. So I'm in Miami for filming, for plastic. And what's happened is there's the first time I've gone back to America. I'm shitting him thinking, fuck, you know, Asian guy, yeah? You're the past, yeah? You know what I mean? So what's happened is the tuk is in the back. I knew it was going to happen. The tuk is in the back, kept in the back for five hours. So. So what's happened is interviewing is what you're doing. It is, it is, it is knackered me. Eventually they let us go. Yeah, as we get out of stuff, I think I'd. I'm like a bum bag thing with my stuff in here. And I've only forgotten at the airport, right? So I'm in America filming a film about credit card fraud. So I've fucking got my card, yeah? Started having a shopping spree. How ironic is that, man? So I've had to get on the phone to my bank, yeah? Okay, oh no, it's not me, you know, this and that. I thought, wow, I'll take things to the army. I'm in America and someone's banging it. I'm making a film about credit card fraud and someone's banging out my credit card. Well, it's karma because I had a big elite cash throw on. Scottish boy, again, he done fraud and his card got done. But again, in life, what goes around comes around as well. It's, I believe everything is karma. And if you do good, you will attract good. Things do go wrong in your life just because if you're trying to do good, your life's great. You still have more problems, but you just handle them better. More good does come your way. It's life is a fucking journey. But yeah, because I had Marilyn Wimsby on. Her dad was involved in the great bank, the great train robbery. So she was and it was a post office. I think they'd done on it post office money. I think they'd done on the train or her dad was a Rob post offices, but she went for a job in a post office. She was actually trying to go legit and they looked at her forms and obviously the other checks and he just like a fuck off over the years. What happened when we were doing credit cards? There was a time when I was on the phone to American Express and they asked me a lot of questions. So what's going on? Why are you asking me so much, so much question and she was telling us there's fraud being committed in the UK by because one, like I said, one of us got caught in Holland and she asked me so many questions and I said, what's going on? And she turned around and she's telling me about me, you know, and when I got out, actually my solicitors got approached, you know, from American Express, whether I was willing to work and to be honest with you, I didn't go down that road. You know, maybe I should have, but at that time I thought no, because you never know. I mean, to work for them, to help them with fraud. But that's difficult just coming out because then you're thinking you've got access before you know what you're back inside. Well, yeah, yeah. And I mean, and the other thing was the girl that I met at the beginning, you know, she was no one ever found her either, you know. Fair play if I'm not turning queens on anybody, the fair play if I'm just taking your sentence on the chin. You get more respect for that? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think. I think not quite, you know, in Cheetah Mill. I mean, a lot of the time people that come out somewhere, you know, it's always good in the sense that, you know, you did what you did, you've done your time and you crack on. Yeah. So hopefully you get a book out then, potential phillum. Life is going good at the moment. Yeah, you know, and anyone who's interested in my story, watch the device. Watch your social media stuff for people to get in touch. Sack 01 and Insta YouTube. It's a key mumtaz if they want to see anything. And Facebook, the same key mumtaz. What's it like for you when you walk by jillers and stuff? Now do you look in jillers and check prices still? I do that. Yeah, I still love, you know, I like nice watches. You know, a look of, you know, I mean, you've got a nice watch. You know, first thing I do. Yeah, I do. And, you know what? Funny you say that. I'm always, you never kind of like lose that. Or even in the sense if I was not, I don't do nothing wrong, but I feel like I've done something wrong as I'm driving that road. And they mean fucks that, you know, but. Because I do that with gambling. I had a gambling addiction. So when I listen to football results, I place when I know teams are boxing match, they're coming up. I'll place bets in my head. And I don't know why I do it. Obviously, it's just old conditioning habits and I'll place bets in my head and sometimes they want to think, fuck, and it's crazy because that's how fast it is to slip back fast. Well, you just mentioned gambling, you know, we were when we were kids, we were the first like young lads from especially round cheap milk that were going Vegas. You know, Vegas wasn't even big there. And we were going at the MGM and obviously we used to pay for it, pay for it with what we've earned from obviously credit card fraud and one of my mates, he was a big gambler and we used to get comped. The MGM used to just give us a suite. Yeah. Long as you spent a certain number of hours on the table. And I mean, that's when we met Tupac and Will Smith and you know, hanging around with people like that. It's just like, you know, I mean, I didn't have camera phones then. Oh, man. To show the evidence, yeah, because they were massive and because that's what all the feats we are Tyson. Yeah, yeah, we used to go, we used to watch a couple of Tyson fights. Yeah, the one with Frank Bruno and I think it was Herbie Hyde and he got knocked down about six times. Yeah. But yeah, so we were living that life 20 years ago, mate. You know, Vegas. Do you mess up? Eh, yes. Yeah, got no. You betta liar if you says, but yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the buzz. It's that buzz like you'll see all the people are active. Maybe they're doing drugs and shitting. Sometimes it's not the money. It's the buzz, the think it's the adrenaline kick. It's weird the way some people thinking and it's hard for people to get out because there's a buzz there and I've entered your boxers as well. It's hard for them to retire because of the buzz, the adrenaline, the the ring entrance Felly mae'r ein clwb bod dyna ein rhaglen agor, dwi'n fyddo, ond dywan di? Rhyw bwyntion yn fllog, gyda ni chi'n gofyn, a dwi'n xirio â'r adrenol yn chich. Diolch yn rhan o'i rhan, bwynt chi'n maen nhw. Rhyw i'n cael eu bodanc. Rwy'n cael eu rhan o'i rhan o'i rhan o'i rhan o'i rhan o'i rhan o'i rhan o'i rhain o'i rhain o'i rhain o bobl yn digwydd. Yn gweld o'i rhain o'i rhain o'u band, blwyddyn. That's crazy how the mind works. It's just trying to understand that when you try to become a better person, you're not hot enough as much people. It's everybody around you who you destroy. It's father coming up to prison, all your wives. No, you know what? I mean I never...well, there's only the one at the time, but yeah. Obviously has an effect. Of course it does, of course it does. Mae'n groesodd y dyfodol. Mae'n groesodd y dyfodol ymlaen nhw i gael gyntaf, maen nhw dod yn y cael yw typach, mae'n gofai'n gwisodd ond mae'n gofo. Felly mae'n gwybod gyn iddynt o bryd, mae'n gwybododd fel yn cast. Efallai yn ei gwybod, mae'n gwybod yw adeiladanner tîm, mae'n mynd i'w llwy wneud gael gan gyda'n femud? Roeddiwch eich dod i'n cyffredin. Roeddiwch eich ddarparu. Roeddonio, roeddelwch eich ddarparu! Rwy'n ydy'r gwaith, rwy'n ymddiwch, nid oes ychydig, sydd oes arddangos y rôl, yn ymddi'r gweithio, yn ymddi, sy'n ei roi, rydyn ni'n gael yn ymddi. Rydyn ni'n gael, ond mae'n rhywbeth, rydyn ni'n gallu, ymddiwch gyda'r clywed. Rydyn ni'n gallu ei gynnydd i chi'n gweithio? Rydyn ni'n gallu. Rydyn ni'n gallu 10 ysgol, rydyn ni'n gallu 10 ysgol, Rhaid i amlwg maen nhw, rhaid i'n rhaid i ganyl. Dyma'r rhaid i'n rhaid i'n gwyseiddwy nhw, wedi wneud, chi'n gwych yn rhoi, fel nhw'n ddych chi'n rai sian, rhaid i'n gwneud. Yr hwn yn gweithiau, eto chi'n eich Lawr, maen nhw'n ddych chi'n rhywbeth. Or, rhaid i'n gweithiau, dwi'n rheswm yn newid, ac rydych chi'n烟. Rhaid i'n rhaid i'n dweud, rhaid i'n dweud, go back and tell him he can't get me wrong, any time I went away, and you know what, I do it now with my lad, I've got two, he's coming on to football, he's getting into all his singing stuff. When he's out, so dad's going to play football and it brings back memories to me, Mae i, fy adeg yn eich bod yn llun. Roeddwn i'n ddweud y fath o wahanol yr adeg, yn yw'r un syniad. Wrth gwrwch i'r fath am y brif Kymosau Ion. Roeddwn i'n i'n gryf i ddweud. Roeddwn i'n i ddweud, roeddwn i roeddwn i'n i ddweud. Roeddwn i'r protech Mushaf, yn dod yn pryd pan Beth 같아요? Roeddwn i'n digon eu cleif i'r ddeilog? Roeddwn i'n i ddyn nhw'n ôl gyfer y cyfnog i chi'n ei wneud. dyfodd, yn y mae geni'r llei, o'r llei a'n gymertyn y ffilm. Mae'r hordd, drwy ei weld, o gwneud hon yn ym inmysgweithinol, ac mae os ydych chi gymryd i gael gofyn, a chi'n gwybod fy modd i'r regu am hyn yn y gallu dyfodd, raen nhw mor hwn yn gilydd yn y gymryd o hwn fel rhaid i'w gweithio. Diolch yn ffordd, mae pobl wedi meddwl gan y rhaid, ac mae'r bwysig i rywbeth yn eu hunain, Ac yn fwy gynnig i'r fyddi, mae'n fyraig o'r gweithio arbennig y dyfodol ac mae'n gweithio'n gwahanol, ond mae'n eu cyflenwyr yn ein bod yna'r wyf, yn fwy gweithio'n gwahanol ac mae'n gweithio'n gwahanol. Mae'n gweld yna'n gweld yna'n dweud i'ch ei ddechrau'n ei gwybod, oedd yn ymgyrch yn fwy fyddi a'r newydd yn gwirio'i gweithio. Ie, rydyn ni'n gweithio ymargrifennu i'r ffordd. Rydyn ni'n gweithio ar y parwyr ar y llyfr yma. Mae'r rhaid i'r ffordd nifer 10. Rydyn ni'n gweithio ar y ffordd.