 Good morning. Welcome to the National Archives Museum's program Korea, The Forgotten War. My name is Jeff Hawks and I'm the Director of Education and Veterans Outreach for the Army Heritage Center Foundation, the non-profit friends group for the U.S. Army Heritage and Education Center in Carlisle. With me today are our panelists, Dr. Conrad Crane, U.S. Army War College faculty, and Mr. Caleb Disinger, U.S. Army Heritage and Education Center curator. Dr. Crane will discuss the war's overall strategic and operational efforts, and Mr. Disinger will discuss use of collections that are available online and in person. Dr. Crane has a lot of material to present, so I will briefly introduce him, but welcome gentlemen. Thank you for joining us for today's program. Dr. Crane is the Senior Historian at the Strategic Studies Institute and Acting Editor-in-Chief for the U.S. Army War College Press. He previously served as SSI as the Director of the Military History Institute and is Chief of Analysis and Research for the U.S. Army Heritage and Education Center at Carlisle Barracks. A 26-year veteran of the United States Army, he holds a Bachelor of Science from the U.S. Military Academy and a Master of Arts and PhD from Stanford University. Dr. Crane, thank you for joining us today. Thank you very much. I am honored to be here. All right, please tell us what you have a lot to tell us about the strategic and operational efforts in the Korean War, so we're anxious to hear what you have to say. Okay, thank you very much. Can I have my first slide, please? Okay, very good. This is a very complex war, very complicated, major implications through today. I'll try to do the best I can in the next 45 minutes to present the history and some of the current impacts of this very forgotten war, but one that's had all kinds of implications for the current world situation we're in now. Next slide, please. The initial occupation is a mess. No one really foresees a problem in Korea at the end of World War II. It's been occupied by Japan since 1911. The north, there's just an orbit that a bunch of people in Washington draw a line on a map and the Soviets get everything north of the 38th parallel and we get the stuff south of the 38th parallel. They set up a satellite under Kim Il Sung. We end up with Sigmund Ri, who's a troublesome leader, and we don't trust him a lot, so we try to keep his army weak so it won't go north. So both Soviet and American forces leave in 49, but we leave a guerrilla war going on in the south and border skirmishing. We leave a small US military advisory group there. But what happens in the meantime is Kim goes back to Stalin. Kim Il Sung goes to Stalin and gets permission to invade in 1950, starts to build up his forces. They signed the Sino-Soviet pact, forges a stronger communist side with the communist Chinese being signed in as well. And while the Americans are most concerned about Japan, they do send a diplomatic mission to Korea in June 1950 to reassure Ri of continued American support. Next slide, please. Then on June 25, 1950, all hell breaks loose. 10 North Korean divisions with T-34 tanks overwhelm this Conrad's certainty-based rock army. The American reaction, though, initially is to see this as a part of a larger Soviet design. There is a fear of attacks on Formosa, ships are rusted from Formosa straight, Doug's MacArthur's in charge of American forces in the Far East, he's concerned about all kinds of implications. President Truman has a big meeting with advisors that are focused on destroying Soviet air bases in the Far East, trying to figure out what the Soviets do next. The State Department increases aid to the French and Indochina. There's initial hesitance actually to get involved on the ground in Korea, because the sense is that the Soviets are really going to attack someplace else. And the first reinforcements are actually being sent to Europe, air and ground. Though MacArthur is directed to send some equipment and that focus air units from Japan on bombing the tanks that are moving south. Next slide, please. It's chaos in Korea in July of 1950 as the North Koreans drive south. The South Koreans really don't have any way to stop the tanks. American air power stops some, but the American units that are being sent in there are big piecemeal and under strength, and they're driven south as well. And by the middle of August 1950, the UN forces are in a very small perimeter around Busan in the southeast corner of Korea, and it's a very, very dicey situation. Next slide, please. The bottom line is American units in Japan were fragmented. They were only about two-thirds or less of authorized strength. They didn't have all their equipment like bazookas to take out tanks. There was no American tank production. When they try to rebuild the tanks that were not in these units being sent into Korea, they had to pull tanks out of museums or send crews to South Pacific islands to find tanks damaged in World War II that they could rekind of fix and send to the war in Korea. They had to reclaim fighter jets from Canada. There were all kinds of problems with ammunition shortages because there weren't enough factories. That would continue throughout the war, and eventually they developed the Defense Production Act to allow the government to force industry to produce military weapons. It's recently been used in the coronavirus, in our own coronavirus crisis. President Truman seizes control of the railroads and steel industry when there are strikes that limit our wartime capacity. The Army eventually runs the railroads for 21 months, while the steel seizure is deemed unconstitutional and doesn't last as long. But the Army is running American railroads for almost two years. We were lucky that the USSR was boycotting the UN over the admission of China in June 1950, so it allowed the Americans to run through a number of resolutions, including direct UN intervention that brings a lot of international support to the war. At the same time, there are some concerns about use of nuclear capabilities. The aircraft and bombs without cores are sent to Guam. Initially, when the war kicks off, some initial studies are done by people in the Pentagon, and they determine that the military use of atomic bombs really in this war would be unwarranted or questionable, and only really considered to be used in the last resort if the United States and the UN are about to be thrown off the peninsula. Next slide, please. However, the North Koreans are at the end of their logistical rope. They've gone south. There have been heavy casualties. They're impressing South Koreans into their army to fill their ranks. They're stretched. MacArthur realizes their weaknesses, and what he does is he keeps a couple of divisions out of the array and Pusan, and instead is going to deploy them for landing near Seoul at Incheon to try to get into the North Korean rear. What's going to happen in the middle of September 1951, there's going to be a simultaneous landing at Incheon, and at the same time the forces from the Pusan perimeter are going to try to break out, and it's basically going to break the North Korean army that is basically at the end of its rope, it's running out of logistics, it's running out of people, it's stretched too far, and basically they're going to collapse under this UN assault in the middle of September 1951. Next slide, please. Our night to correction, 1950, middle of 1950 is when the assault is. So the invasion starts in 15 September. Seoul is liberated 10 days later, the capital of South Korea, and all of a sudden UN forces are close to the 38th parallel. MacArthur doesn't cross. He realizes this is an expanding of the war, and he waits for direction from the UN and American leaders to give him permission to expand the war, which he gets on 7 October, and then he's going to head north unrestrained. The Korean forces themselves crossed the 38th parallel on 1 October and started heading north. This causes mass panic for Kim Il-sung who pleads to stall and forage who then passes the buck to Mao, and eventually Mao agrees to enter the war on 19 October to try to save the North Koreans. At about the same time, 15 October, there's a meeting of MacArthur and Truman at Wake Island, where everything seems to be going great. MacArthur's drive north is reinforced, and what has happened is Incheon changes the war faster than decision makers can deal with it. Neither side, we were not prepared for such great success, and the North Koreans and their communist allies are not prepared for the disaster they face, and there's a lot of hasty decisions made. They're going to have massive consequences down the road as the war expands. Next slide, please. Basically, so from the October into early November is a massive drive north by the UN forces. They take the North Korean capital of Pyongyang. They head north. Eventually, forces will get to the Aloe River, the border with China. The leaders are trying to send reassurances. The communist China are not really going to attack them, but they're not very effective. They're actually in late October as the early Chinese forces that have come in actually knock back some UN forces, but it's a very short engagement. It doesn't last long, and MacArthur's assumptions are that the Chinese are not going to be sticking around, and he has the freedom to drive to the Aloe. Again, it's a bad assumption that's going to have major repercussions. Next slide. Now, in the meantime, he is concerned, MacArthur is concerned a bit about possible Chinese intervention, and George Stratomire, his Air Forces commander, says, don't worry. I can stop them. I can create a dead zone across North Korea to keep anyone from coming south. He basically, in early November, exercises his first major air attack on the city of Kangye, which is there on the right, destroys most of the city, and it's a demonstration of what he can do to try to keep any Chinese force from going south. The problem is, in early November, all of a sudden, that MiG-15 show up, and all of a sudden, there is a challenge to UN air power from these Soviet MiGs, and it's going to create a gap over the Yellow River. It's going to create a blindness in American air reconnaissance, and it's going to allow for more and more Chinese forces to get over the Aloe undetected. Next slide. And then what happens in late November 1950. Again, that should be 1950 and the date, not 1951. What happens in late November 1950 is the Chinese, this massive Chinese assault, hundreds of thousands of Chinese troops assault. They capture, they batter the 7th entry division and the Marine division that are in the east. They destroy a lot of the 2nd entry division, who's in the west. They push UN forces down, and it's going to force the longest retreat in American history, as UN forces are smashed and these Chinese forces considerably outnumbered roll southward. Next slide, please. And eventually the UN tries to hold at the 38th parallel, but they can't afford it. They don't have enough forces to set a formal line that the Chinese can drive south. They retake Seoul again. But the same problem happens. All the Chinese supplies are coming over the Aloe river and flowing south. They've got a long way to go down the Korean Peninsula. It's a very cold winter. Chinese forces are freezing to death. In the meantime, what's going to happen is of the American forces that are withdrawn from the eastern part of North Korea that are brought down by ship, embarked at Busan. They'll drive north to kind of restore the line and you establish a sort of equilibrium about a further way down in South Korea, where the Chinese are running out of momentum and the United Nations forces are starting to re-establish the line of defense. Next slide, please. Well, we've also had a change in command in the 8th Army, the major ground element in the UN defenses of South Korea. Walton Walker, the commander, is killed in a Jeep accident in December. General Matthew Ridgway has brought in the United States to replace him. The first thing he does is writes a why we are here memo for the troops and starts to rebuild the fighting spirit of his 8th Army. He stops along the street in American history, stops the Chinese offensive. And in February, we'll start his own offensive at a place called Chippewa Ni, a very tight battle, a very near-run thing, but he does stop the Chinese advance and start his own. He also changes most of his core and division commanders. They're kind of run-downs. A lot of them are older. He brings in people he trusts to exercise the offensive that he wants to drive the communist forces northward, and he's going to rely on massive firepower. For Ridgway, it's air power and artillery to try to overcome the Chinese and the communist edge in numbers with firepower. So the drive north is not going to be quick, but it is going to be supported by massive firepower. Next slide, please. And so what happens is between the mid-February and May of 1951, Ridgway will retake Seoul and get back to the 38th parallel. Again, lots of artillery, very, very controlled offensive northward with Americans and South Korean forces. The Chinese are trying to rebuild for another offensive, and Ridgway know that's coming. So what he's going to do when he gets up to May, he's going to rearrange his forces and his firepower to prepare for this Chinese offensive that he knows is coming. So in the meantime, you've also got the fears of more concern about possible use of American atomic bombs. When the Chinese first break across, there are talk about use of bombs. When Truman mentions their use in a press conference, the British panic and send people to Washington to tell them not to use atomic weapons. There are all kinds of consideration about maybe we should attack China. The Air Force proposes creating a radioactive dead zone by dropping radioactive material across the peninsula. But eventually as the situation restores itself in January, February, those options go away. However, in April, it becomes apparent the Chinese are getting ready for another major offensive. The Soviets are building up their naval and air forces. General McArthur gets fired. I'll talk about that in a second in April, which also creates another sense of wariness. And so what's going to happen in April 51 is the strategic air command is going to send nuclear capable aircraft back to Guam with real bombs this time. And from April 51 till the end of the war, there are 10 SAC aircraft with atomic bombs sitting on airfields at Guam. Next slide please. So what happens if you got this leader transition in April, McArthur is getting concerned about the Chinese actions. He's making some statements about further expanding attacks. He engages in some with the Taiwanese talk about maybe using nationalist forces. And basically, Harry Truman thinks he's going too far and relieves him. And McArthur's relief in April, he's replaced by Ridgeway, who becomes the UN commander. And that's on the right there. There's Ridgeway in Tokyo with his first interview as he takes command of the UN forces. Next slide please. One of the first things he's got to deal with is this major Chinese offensive. Now what's going to happen is the UN forces are going to trade space for time and firepower. And so the UN forces are going to start to withdraw back over the 38th parallel, almost back to Seoul, but not quite to Seoul. But as the Chinese move forward, they are blasted by air power and fuel artillery. And they make massive losses as they move, as they move south. This is all in May of 1951. Next slide. Next slide please. Okay, then there's also another, they do, no, go back one if you can please. There you go. Good. Thank you. So basically, there's another, they do us first assault is in the west, then they do an assault in the east. The UN forces will trade space for time, blast the Chinese with firepower. So what happens by the end of May 1951, the Chinese have moved forward, moved their lines forward, but they've been shattered by artillery and air power. They don't have the power to hold the line. And the UN is now going to exercise a new offensive and break the line open. Next slide please. And that's what happens. In the first week of, weeks of June 1951, the front is blown wide open. Ridgway's got his forces moving forward. They both Korean and American forces are over the 38th parallel into North Korea, making all kinds of gains. But what happens then in the middle of June is the Russians proposed in the UN a ceasefire in the interest of providing some kind of a end to the war. In 1951 seems willing to do that. The American offensive is halted. Ridgway is very much against it. He wants to continue his operations, but he's ordered the halt is offensive. He's afraid that the Russians are going to use it to build a whole new defensive line, which is exactly what happens. And at the end of the end of the end of the 30 days, you get into July of 1951, the Chinese and the North Koreans have built a very sophisticated line across the peninsula, no longer the UN forces have freedom of action. But we're now embroiled in a battle. The battlefield is now moves to the tale of the table of negotiations instead of a battlefield. Next slide please. It's a whole new kind of war for the Ridgway is gotta learn how to negotiate with the communists. The communists pull all kinds of tricks. There's all kinds of, they end up shifting the, the location of the talks to eventually they end up at Pambojom. The North Korean show up with taller chairs than the UN forces, they rearrange the tables is all kinds of little things going on that delay the beginning of the peace talks, until they finally get some kind of equilibrium. But by the late summer early fall of 1951, they're going full bore. Next slide please. Now there's four main issues. The first are the, the, they've got the, and once they get the agenda negotiation site of Pambojom set. The first one is military demarcation line. They settle pretty easily. They just decide, well, we'll, we'll use the line we're not now we'll just back off a kilometer or so, and that will become the demarcation line. They set up the supervisor commissioned quickly. Poland, Czechoslovakia from the communist side, Sweden, Switzerland on the UN side will be the, the, the, the, the country is designed to maintain the supervision of the settlement. And there's some sticking points about rotation replenishment of forces, whether they can, whether each side can bring in more military forces after. Oops, I just lost. I'm losing something here. Oh, oh, what happened. There we go. Okay. Anyway, the, sorry, I had my computer just did something strange. Anyway, so there's a concern about whether they'll be able to bring in more forces after the armistice that eventually will get settled. But the big point, the big sticking point for everybody is repatriation of prisoners of war. Next slide. The UN has 150,000 prisoners. Communists have about 10,000. A lot of those UN prisoners though are South Koreans forced into communist service, or are nationals Chinese or who were captured in the, that there was a red Chinese took over most of China. And so there, there, there's a sense that a lot of these, these prisoners really don't want to be the don't want to go back to communist China. Bradley Ridgeway, the commander of the UN forces general Bradley, the chief of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, they favor a straight swap. But Truman and Truman and Winston Churchill, who's leading the Brits would not support that because they remember what happened to World War two. When the Soviets killed a lot of the returning prisoners from that exchange and they don't want that to happen to these many prisoners who don't want to go back to the communists. So that becomes a major sticking point for almost two years. Next slide please. So what happens is is as the, these peace talks bogged down is each side asked to determine how are we going to deal with it. And without a major without expanding the war so the communists are going to through through information warfare and I'll talk about the Koji Do prison riots and biological warfare allegations the UN. So we're going to basically focus on air power using American mostly air power to kind of try to exert pressure on the communists and the Chinese to to give in to the what they wanted the peace talks. Next slide please. So the first place that we have something is a Koji Do. And this these are the, again you got 150,000 communist prisoners in South Korea, and the main prison camp is down at a place called Koji Do. Next slide please. That picture is a size up as a picture of some of the early riots there. What happens is is the communists will infiltrate they get special agents captured infiltrate into the overcrowded camps. And in February 1952 of the riots begin. They'll continue till till May, when the prisoners lure Brigadier General Francis Dodd the camp command on for a discussion and they capture. And the only release him after there's a signed admission by UN forces of abuses in the prison camps, big propaganda coup. It's a major impact in world opinion that weakens the UN position on the fair treatment of prisoners because they're saying wait the argument is you're not treating them fairly. It's a big propaganda victory for the communist side. What's going to happen though is then general Brigadier General Hayden boaters put in charge of the area brings him brings in some infantry battalions in June 52 and basically rolls through the camps straightens about captures the main perpetrators of the camps, solves any problems. And what's going to happen over the next few months is any memories of any of the complaints fade away. And so the communists are going to lose that particular motivation that particular weapon against UN forces. Next slide. And so for about the same time, the, they start to build up accusations of the American and UN use of biological warfare. They find that the Americans it's had struck a deal with General Ishii and unit 731 Japanese unit biological warfare in the World War two to get materials from them. The newspaper reports began in February of 1952 Chow and live start doing radio broadcast broadcast including Americans of incursions. They've released pictures to the newspapers of insect and germ bombs. They can make all kinds of claims of diseases being spread all over the world. And they're also motivated because their epidemics in China and these accusations help motivate their Chinese people to fight harder against the problems with these epidemics. Next slide please. Now the initial US response is to try to get a UN to investigate that the Russia is back now in the UN they veto it. Realization there's a USSR a hate campaign against the United States. When the US are brings up the issue for debate me when the United States is very clever and says okay fine we need to investigate this. We need to send investigators into Korea to check and that force another USSR veto and stops the UN investigation. At the same time there's all kinds of press and press coverage and video reels by the Americans a highly American denials the Soviet and trans agents. O.P. Whalen the Far East Air Force commander says why don't we just admit we have no capability but nobody wanted to do that. There are fears that the communists were using this campaign to justify their own use of biological warfare and we would therefore have to develop our own capability to counter those. So they didn't want us to admit we had no capability because then we thought that would then have encouraged the communists to do something against us. In the meantime, they're also the communists are forcing confessions from Eric and airmen that they have and they these appear in prob the Russian press and also in Chinese radio there's newsreels. Eventually 38 fliers confessed to delivering biological warfare. A lot of them do it because they know about our nuclear plans and they feel if they talk about these crazy biological warfare efforts that people will be distracted won't ask about nukes which actually works. All claims are investigated by the Air Force they're all denied by the State Department. And when the war when they finally achieve an end to the war and 53. These prisoners are a top priority to recover to try to recant these accusations and many when they finally are reclaimed in 1953. Many were amazed that anybody believe these crazy stories they were telling. They were chagrin that their fabrications have been taken so seriously by the world. Next slide please. Now the communists continue to push the program to try to convince the world of the American perfidy. They bring in two chosen groups to investigate evidence, create false infestation maps in actually infect some people with biological diseases and then bury them so that these groups that visit can then dig them up and find out these people died from, from these diseases from cholera and plague. Both these in these groups they bring in are convinced and they both are convinced that we have used biological warfare. In April 1953 is the war is grinding down the Soviets find out what is happening. The Soviets determine all these Chinese and Korean claims were false. They recommended strongly to Chinese and North Koreans quit making the claims, and they did. And so the accusations disappear in mid 1953. Next slide. Now surprisingly by 53 we are actually starting to develop some capabilities we have chemical warfare capabilities in theater. We have developed a slight attack with some incapacitating bacterium against kidney pigs in a practice range. There's a big anthrax plant due to come online and 54 was very deadly biological weapon. They did have some anti crop materials available by 1953 they had biological warfare bombs ready to fill. And they actually develop a balloon delivery system in 1954 to destroy Soviet drain crops. Ironically the contractor for that was General Mills who of course does a lot of our own cereals here in the United States. But again it's this is all good there will be a bilateral warfare program through the fifties generated again by these fears out of Korea. Next slide please. There's international impact. Besides spurring North Korean and Chinese public health programs that claims panic Chinese troops. There's accusations in world press about it is suspicions in the in Pakistan about the American biological warfare. They inspire some actions against American airmen by North Korean civilians. But at the same time some American POW has actually create fake biological warfare agents by putting they capture bugs and put paint little pictures on their back and create panic of North Korean guards. It's it's crazy. Some Chinese today the Chinese today are still convinced attacks have happened. There are actually a couple of us investigators do also. But again there has never been any solid proof of any biological warfare from that period of Korean war. Next slide. Now let's go back to Matt Ridgway as the war goes through this is going through its negotiation stage stage. It's a new kind of war. How can we coerce with air power without causing some kind of backlash is initial attacks because the North Koreans and Chinese come back with complaints that they that they don't like the bombing. It's it's had interference with surveying agencies. There's backlash. They suspend peace talks for a little bit. It's a real challenge for Ridgway to deal with this next slide please. So eventually when he first started he decides to do a an interdiction campaign. So first thing he does is try to disable North Korean railroads. And this this is a this is a railroads near Pyongyang that have been bombed by Allied air power. Next slide please. Then they'll drop tax on roads these these large foresight these these big tax they drop them all over roads in North Korea to try to cripple their road transport. Next slide please. Then they use napalm and other weapons to try to knock out storage facilities close to the DMZ close to the front lines. Some pretty large attacks to do that. Next slide please. The problem is it doesn't work. The lines are stable the North Korean and Chinese supply demands aren't very high. So everything kind of stalls. Eventually there's a proposal to bomb the North Korean hydroelectric plants and power transmission grid Ridgway refuses to do it. He says that's too much of an expansion of the war and gets very frustrated and basically starts to look for another another job beyond the frustration of these peace talks in Korea. Next slide please. He'll go off to head to take over Sack your and he'll be replaced by Mark Clark they're on the right. And he will work with OP Wayland and he decides to expand the air war. And he's going to develop a campaign called air pressure. Next slide please. It happened it starts in 1952. And it's there's one part of it is starts to destroy most of North Korean villages and cities. The mass 18 of the 22 largest North Korean cities are more than 50% destroyed villages all over North Korea turned into in the chaos North Koreans are living in in caves. The causes master structure out North Korea at the same time there are on the right there. There are some bombing of some North Korean dams which cause flooding in the peon gang destroy some rice crops. Eventually the North Koreans will will lower the water levels and adapt to that. But again it's it's it's a considerable escalation in the air war against North Korea to try to get some response at the peace talks. Next slide. Now he also rich way or Clark also has plans for a major up plan 8-52 if negotiations stall or collapse. It's a major expanse of the offensive. It'll be a drive north to take the North Korean capital peon Yang and be an invasion assault on the other side of the peninsula. Use of tactical strategic atomic bombs between 342 and 482 depending on the options. It's actually approved by the Joint Chiefs in the National Security Council May of 53. The NSC and General Eisenhower the new commander in Korea suspect that they're the new president I mean NSC and President Eisenhower suspect that communists are using armistice as a ploy. It would have been a disaster to try to exploit this offensive. You had a million Chinese troops. It didn't happen and I think that's we're thankful it didn't it would have been I don't think it would have been a very successful offensive who knows what would have happened with all these nukes. But it's it but it's an arm again that doesn't happen. Next slide please again this is an example would have happened that shows the the double assault to take peon Yang it shows an invasion from the peninsula from the side. It wants on it would have been and all those atomic strikes it would have been quite an offensive would have taken major reinforcements United States to do it would have massively expanded the war. Next slide please. Meantime you have a new president Dwight Eisenhower he goes to Korea. Everybody knew his military reputation. He sent some diplomatic hints that he might resort to nuclear weapons but to be honest it's unclear whether those were really received by the people on the communist side that really needed him. He thought that his threats had a major impact. There are really a lot of other things going on that had a major impact on Chinese and North Korean communist decision making next slide please. Bottom line is it's Stalin dies in March 53. There's a lot of instability in the Kremlin. There's riots in Eastern Europe. Mao's got a war in Indochina. He's he's supporting. He's worried about fromosa he's delayed economic development in China. There are signs American escalation saver jets are shooting down makes over China going over the even though they're not supposed to they're going over the alley anyway to shoot down makes Sigmund re let's 25,000 POW is loose, which is seen as an heroic act by the Koreans, but creates massive mistrust on both sides. Nobody trusts read either the China the communist Chinese or or or the China the communists or us nobody, nobody trusts read the Chinese will have another offensive after those prisoners are released. They gain regain ground save some face. And they're ready to kind of sign off the war for a while Kim Il Sung. He thought his power was consolidated now in North Korea. He finished conquering the South later. And eventually the decision is made to let the remaining prisoners to go through a process to get to choose to be repatriated or not. 20,000 communist POWs refused patriot from patriation, but so did 23 Americans and one Britain, most of them because they had, they felt they'd be guilty of charges of some kind of cooperation with their captors. And they didn't want to do that so 23 Americans one Britain will stay behind. Most of them eventually come back, but the damage is done. The armistice is signed 27 July 53 strategic air commands on standby for potential treachery. But again, the peace continues and nothing major will happen for a while. Next slide please. Now winners and losers. The big winners of the communist Chinese who who create a major role for themselves in the world, standing up for North Korea, United States is a big winner though to because it saves South Korea stands up for its UN allies the UN comes out very positively from this, particularly the United Kingdom and Commonwealth countries who send a lot of support for South Korea. The big losers, both Korea is massive damage, it will take them decades to recover. In many ways, North Korea has never recovered. And then the Soviet Union, which loses a lot of its influence over the communist Chinese and loses a lot of initiative in the in Asia because of what happened in the Korean War. Next slide please. His move to become the army representative for the combined chiefs of staff. He will be engaged with Eisenhower to keep us out of Indochina and 54. He uses Korea as an example of how much worse to show that any battle in Vietnam will be worse. And he will be very influential in in in persuading Dwight Eisenhower not to get involved in Indochina as the French are defeated 1954. Instead, we will allow a set of negotiations over Indochina eventually split it into north and south Vietnam. And with it with the legacy to be dealt with much later. But we're not going to be directly involved in the 1950s in Vietnam. Next slide please. Now Eisenhower is going to turn his focus to nuclear weapons and building up strategic air command. The again Ridgeway disagrees a lot of this and actually is going to push against it. Trying to keep American ground power. That helps end his career he's only he's only chief of staff of the army for two years. When he comes up for a new in 1955 I guess fed up with some of his fighting against the expansion of air power reduction in land power, and basically replaces him. So he's going to have no influence in the 1960s. When they've worn Vietnam expands for United States Korean War globalizes containment speeds and development of NATO and the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization which will include Australia. So you have major alliances and both the Atlantic and the Pacific. And after the Korean War there's no big military drawdown like after World War two the US American people are going to accept the permanent strong security state. When we finally get involved in the 60s building the army of Vietnam it's going to be built just like the rock army was, which is very much a conventional army, not designed to fight the insurgency that is built up in Vietnam. They'll have low level Korean border war throughout the 60s. Kim Il Sung goes to China again in the mid 1970s to ask to reinvade the south, but is refused. He's going to get no support from either the Soviet Union or communist China to go back to South Korea. And so his plans are foiled in 1980s is a vibrant South Korean democracy emerges. A big propelled member the Olympics in Korea in 86. It's a very different country. After that and then Korea is the South Korea continues to be a dominant democracy. Very prosperous in contrast to North Korea that now has missile and nuclear programs is still very backward, but is trying to deter any kind of American military action against them in the future. In the meantime, there's still all kinds of implications from the Incheon landings. People still remember the way that war changed and it's a potent threat in the mind of any American adversary with the ability of American military operations to completely transform a war with something like the Incheon landings. Next slide please. In Korea, the Korean war remains a very, very bitter memory. In the left, that's actually I visited. I visited Beijing in a few years ago and went to the major military museum in Beijing and that what you see on the left there is a display. That's a that's a Chinese painting of the assault in late November 1950, the overwhelm. The second division at Kuna re and it shows Chinese forces slaughtering American forces. They drive south in front. There are battle Chinese battle trophies from the that assault, including an American regimental color and a 50 caliber machine gun. Very sobering display in the main military museum in Beijing. On the right there that is a monument in South Korea, which shows a South Korean soldier meeting what with a North Korean soldier their brothers. And the tragedy of the division of Korea remains. It is something that again that you know singman re, until the end of his presidency always talked about reuniting Korea's. The, you know, again, the Korean war is really never ended. You had an armistice but you've never really had a peace treaty so the, the condition, the combat conditions still remain there on the DMZ. Even though you've got a major differences between North and South Korea that the North is is one of the poorest countries in the world while South Korea has prospered a lot. But but tension remains friction remains and the future. Still a lot of questions about the future of that and battle peninsula. Please. And I will that that's the end of my presentation and I will wait your questions later on and I'm waiting waiting Caleb's talk about our current museum holdings. Thank you. Thank you Dr crane very comprehensive overview. And I look forward to the question and answer period. We're going to move on to Mr disney presentation. Mr disney has been a member of the US Army heritage and education staff since 2004 serving most of that time as a curator of uniforms textiles and personal equipment. He's a graduate of shipping for university has been interested in military history in his entire life. He served as lead curator for a number of exhibits at the US Army heritage and education center, including America's last five star general Omar Bradley, a great civil war battles that defined a nation. Goodbye Broadway Hello France America and the Arab World War one on patrol outside the wire in the global war of terror and the most relevant for today where the hell is Korea warfare in the land of sorrow. And Caleb is going to tell us about the resources that you can use to learn more about the Korean war at the US Army heritage and education center. So Caleb, take it away. Thank you Jeff. Good morning everyone. We get to slide number one. All right, thank you. So, I probably should have added one other slide before this just to kind of give a brief background on on USA heck. So we are mission is basically to collect preserve and make available historical records artifacts and materials that document the history of the US Army. Just a real quick background on a heck. The organization as it is stood up officially in 1967, then it was known as the US military history research collection. And we've been in operation, basically ever since. And formally, we were known as the Army's unofficial history institution, primarily collecting soldier letters, photographs, artifacts, that kind of thing. And over the last several decades since since the late 1960s, we've really done a lot of collecting and preservation of the Army's historical materials. So just as a quick background on on a heck now. So slide number one USA heck by the numbers just kind of give up a little bit more of a some info on on specifically what we have archival collections. So you're looking at a little bit more than 5000 archival collections as part of the paper and photograph collections at a heck, which equates to about 24,000 linear feet of shelf space. For museum artifacts, we have a little bit more than 36,000 cataloged materials. And that that ranges from your smallest in Sydney to large macro vehicle that we have on the army heritage trail on our on our facility. So it kind of runs the gamut there for the artifacts library materials, more than 350,000 of reference materials and that includes primary secondary materials, military publications, journals, unit histories, etc. And that covers all areas of military history, foreign and domestic. So the digitization project that you're you see there. So we have been have had an ongoing contract to digitize all of the archival and three dimensional materials that are in the collection for online research and downloading so we're really getting to a point where a lot of the materials that we have. We have to bring up online, rather than come to our facility in person and we still obviously host in person research, but this this allows us to really kind of reach out worldwide for for for research. And as you can see, currently, out of the archival collections and museum three dimensional artifacts. We currently have 2,653 collections digitized, just over 1.9 million digitized materials that are currently available. As of last month, last month. And that continues where we're currently in the fifth year of that contract and how long it will continue basically depends on on our funding. Next slide please. So if you're coming to our website to do some some research. That's pretty much what the, the website the webpage will look like for you to plug in any kind of a key term or we're subject heading that you'll be looking for that does search all of the archival materials, library materials and artifacts that we currently have digitized and available. Next slide. So if you're using that that website. And I did a quick run of the numbers here, just plugging in Korean war in quotations for that for that slide for that website or webpage materials directly related to Korean war for archival collections brought up 800 little bit more than 820 archival collections. Artifacts, a little bit more than 600 artifacts and library materials just shy of 2500 a library materials that directly relate to the Korean war or have Korean war in their title or subject heading. Obviously, there is much more that indirectly relates to Korean war or is not a listed directly with is having Korean war in the subject line of the title heading. So it obviously takes a bit of research but kind of gives an idea of the amount of materials that that we can support directly related to to the Korean war. Next slide please. This slide compiled healthy listing of the various collections that we have at a heck that directly relate to the Korean war. Some of these may be fairly familiar some of them may not be the asterisk that you see is considered. Included as multi dimensional collections and that basically means that it would have archival materials in the collection as well as artifact materials in the collection. Matthew Ridgeway obviously Dr crane just touched on his his collection alone has 134 boxes in the collection. And there are some, some artifacts, artifact materials as well as part of his collection at a heck Edward Almond commander of 10 core during Korea before he took over as commandant at the war college in 1951 has over 200 boxes in his collection. Today and Joan Blair. Most of you may be aware of of players works on Korean war forgotten war and a general's life. Rich ways parrot troopers just to name some. And who's all ent was a fought in during the Tucson perimeter campaign and retired from the Pennsylvania National Guard as a Brigadier. He also did. During his research for his book. He conducted some surveys much like what a heck has been doing and I probably should have mentioned this a little bit beforehand, one of our major collections and ongoing efforts. Since we began in 1967 has been what we call soldiers surveys questionnaires, and it's something a heck or MH RC as it was when it when it began, has been doing ever since that time. Basically questionnaires papers questionnaires now they're online, but originally they were paper questionnaires multiple pages, sent out to veterans of all the major conflicts since the Spanish American War to present day, asking for veterans to to describe their where they were from what they were doing in civilian life how they joined the army. In particular, would they think of their service, transportation weaponry, the food commanders what they think of their leadership what they think of their comrades what they do in their off time. What they think of combat if they were in combat. There are various experiences of veteran and soldier life experiences and and and how they came home how they got out what they've been doing since their time in the army. This is something they have been doing since since 1967. And who's a land did the same thing for with 4000 veterans of the Prussian perimeter in particular, but also from the Korean War, and his his surveys are also part of his collection so it's very neat to see a soldier come back and do the same thing for for his for his research and I'm excited. anime McCabe haze. She was a nurse in Korea, and she also became the army's very first female general officer. So, it was nice to, to use her materials here at a heck as well for for what we'll talk about here in a minute about the Korean War exhibit that we did Korean War Ranger collection. Built mostly by Robert black, who was local here to Carlisle was an army Ranger. And then you also see the Korean War signal core collection. Korean East, I'm sorry US Far East command psychological warfare collection, senior officer oral history program collection that's where we interviewed senior officers. And took the oral histories, and, and compiled that in, in published form. Talk about their service. That's something we're still doing today as well. There are a couple of collections here on listed that relate to what was what would become the army special forces during Korea. It was the 82 40th Army unit. Donald cybert was one of one of the officers that was assigned to that. Also, you'll see jade Vanderpool. Glenn Muggle Berg is in there. These are all officers that were part of the 82 40th. And talk about clandestine operations with the army, the Air Force, the Navy, and then in primarily eyes with South Korean and North Korean partisan units on how how the there was a clandestine effort to, to impact the war. So that's those are some really good collections at a heck. Charles Burton there you see he was in the Korean KMAG which was a military assistance group as a US Army enlistee train assigned to train and work with South Koreans. And actually during the war, early on the war was captured and became a POW and his, his collection here at a heck. We have a number of his artifact materials but interestingly enough we have a very good number of letters that he sent to his parents that the North Koreans passed, passed through. So that was an excellent collection to, to rely on for for the exhibit which we'll talk about here shortly. Richard Regal. He was a scrub nurse for Captain H Richard Hornberger, which some of you may know. He wrote the book, MASH as as Richard Hooker is his pen name. So Richard Regal served with Hornberger in the 4077 MASH. I'm sorry, check that as, as part of 8055 MASH, which would then be based on on on the book in the series, which, which covered 4077, which was the fictional machine by Hornberger. Carl Redmond collection. He's interesting in that he was an Army guy, Sergeant got pulled off the line and assigned to the 61 47 tactical air squadron, air control squadron, which was an Air Force outfit. And he rode in the, in the back of T six airplanes, mosquitoes as a, an observer, and he would what he did was he called in air strikes, other Air Force strikes, Navy ships artillery strikes as a as an air as a US Army soldier. And he was also flying planes as well and he ended up flying 150 missions over the course of his term with the 61 47. At the time during Korea on Air Force pilots only had to fly 100 missions, but there was no such requirement for US Army soldiers who were assigned as observers. You see their outpost Harry survivors Association that was an organization, the veteran organization set up after the war. For those veterans who had the distinction of serving at outpost Harry which was part of the defensive line along outpost Tom Dick and Harry in the tour one valley. The mission took place over the course of the week in June 1953 towards the, towards the end of the war. Raymond Bennett served in seventh infantry he received the soldiers metal for helping to evacuate troops at at hung them in December 1950 during the Chinese offensive. And then Mugglburg and Jay Vanderpole of Roy Oppelman prolific author, his research materials are here at a heck Dan Walker has quite a number of photographs in his collection. William K. Harrison was deputy commander of eighth Army 1951 1952. He actually ends up becoming UN commander. I'm sorry, UN command delegate to the Korean armistice delegation, and his autograph for signature is on the the truce agreement. So his collection is very valuable for research. Chiefs of staff the army, a number of those soldiers that are part of that collection, either saw servers in Korea, or, or directly after linemen that sir. Jay Long Collins was the chief of staff during Korea Frederick Wyand crate neighbors are just a couple of others. So Raymond, he was Dr crane mentioned for Paul Freeman was the commanding officer of the 23rd infantry regiment, which was the primary defensive organization at chip young me in February 1951. And john Cushman, his collection he was, he actually was commander of I core in the demilitarized zone in 1976 through 1978 so his, his collection relates more towards. First war. Our next collection, our next next slide please. So we took in the, in the process of research and, and exhibition for for an exhibit that we did in 2019 that lasted in three, three years, mostly through coven. And we took a lot of those collections that we just referenced for for this exhibit, which we called where the hell is Korea warfare in the land of sorrow. And we took that name, decided on the name where the hell is Korea for specific couple of specific reasons. One, as I mentioned the veteran surveys. Korea, I'm sorry, Korean War has has about 1500 veteran surveys in the collection. And one of the questions that is listed is basically asked the veteran of the soldier, what did you think when you heard North Korea invaded South Korea on 25 June 1950. And through all these surveys, there were two that stood out to me, while doing the research, because the response was that their, their thought at the time was where the hell is Korea, and they, and they both wrote that on their survey. And that was very poignant. And the second reason why we decided on that name was because in 2019. As Dr painted mentioned, you know, tensions were were once again becoming very high with North Korea, and with Kim Jong-un, and as as leader. And we thought it relevant to kind of reorient American public as to where exactly Korea was so that they had a little bit better understanding of what was going on and where we were where the news was at in 2019. Kind of decided on on where the hell is Korea warfare and land to sorrow comes directly from third infantry divisions unit history that was published in 1951. Which was during the Korean War. And that's what they referred to to Korea. So it was kind of a historical context there for the exhibit title. And here for slide, this slide is what we did is we turn basically the physical exhibit into an online exhibit and these are just a couple of slides of which I can go through real quickly. To highlight the, the, what we did in the physical space and, and we took it as based the exhibit off of the five major phases of the Korean War, which Dr crane just kind of touched on. And then each one of those we get some quick background of what's going on in that particular phase timelines and added imagery and that kind of thing. But primarily, we've, we picked selected a couple of soldiers to three four soldiers in some cases from each phase that that that highlights on that particular phase in the exhibit. So, next slide please. And we can touch on these very briefly. First, for the Prusa perimeter we touched on two, two soldiers, firstly tenancy Lyle Michelle, I see was known. He was actually getting ready to come home at the end of his tour and get out of the army and he was basically stopped lost after he was on the ship out of Japan and turned around after the invasion and sent back to take, take command of a platoon in the 24th infantry regiment. Next slide. The other soldier from Prusa perimeter. Very interesting story, Corporal Jack Zimmerman, he actually was a Holocaust survivor born in Poland. Was was set to be executed twice by the Germans as a as a Polish Jew, young, young kid at the time he ended up in the Polish resistance of the underground. And after the war he ended up escaping with his mother to America and as a thank you he ended up joining the army is a thank you to America he joined the army and ended up in Korea as a tanker. Where in this particular image that the image that you see there of the 45 tank he's actually the assistant driver, which is as the way you look at it the lower left hand. A soldier that's that's kind of his head poking out the hatch there, which interestingly enough he didn't know and he was he was still alive and we were doing this exhibit. And I sent this image to him and he said you know that looks like me that's that was our, our unit's tank. So that was a neat, neat little aspect but what you're also seeing there is in the online version we're able to upload the surveys and the research into this online exhibit so that's kind of like what you're looking at there the PDF version can take you directly to what he wrote in response to the survey. Next slide. As I mentioned, anime, McCabe as she was known then before she got married and added the haste to her last name she became the first general officer but but in Korea she was a young nurse and had been back this is the second time she was at the Pacific. She had been in the China Burma India Theater during World War Two. And you see here there's a video upload as part of the website of her talking about her experiences. About her entire army experiences that we were able to load onto the on the website. Next, next slide. Private first class Stuart Struthers we touch on as another phase for the mobile warfare portion of the exhibit. He's one where we did not have any exhibit or any artifacts. So what we did his story was pretty amazing. He was in a mash unit got transferred because he was an African American into the second Ranger infantry company which was the only and ever was the only African American Ranger company. He was a medic. So that's why they needed a medic prior to the jump on on Moonsan me while not having any airborne experience. While he was over there he got a shuffle shuffled into a an impromptu jump jump course, where they had him jumping off of the back of a douche and a half for his three practice drum jumps and what we did and since we didn't have any effects, was we mocked up a little vignette of him standing on the back of a douche and a half getting ready to perform a practice jump, which is exactly what they did. So that was pretty neat to be able to bring that out. There's Richard Regal, who had just mentioned about working with Hornberger and the 8055 mash that's picture on the left from his collection of them actually in the operating room. And on the right we added an image from the signal core collection of the actual mash set for the TV show. In my research I found that the veterans of of Korean War had mixed feelings on on the TV show in particular. Regal was one that that I didn't like the show he thought it was a bunch of baloney in fact he mentions that in a survey. There's Carl Redman, as I mentioned the the Army Sergeant who ended up flying for the Air Force in the unarmed 61 47 tactical air control group as an observer. And we finished off the exhibit, kind of just bringing home to the to the visitors coming through the physical exhibit that, as Dr crane and mentioned, we're technically still a war. Yes, there's a there's a truce but the fact is there's no there's no signed agreement ending the war. And that image there is was was up to date at that point 2017 of a US soldier on the right, and a South Korean soldier on the left there looking at the demarcation line. Next slide. So if you're coming to research. There's our address time times of that are on site research room is available. We do ask that you make an appointment. If you're coming in person. Otherwise, you can search online 24 seven 365. And that's that should be the end of my of my portion. Fantastic Caleb thank you. Thank you for that tremendous introduction to us again as resources. We do have a few questions. And so I'll dive right into those. Dr crane. I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about the strategic considerations what other than containing communism. And today the problem of containing the expansion of totalitarian government. What are the strategic issues on the Korean Peninsula that make it a valuable place for a point of contention for the world. That's a good question. My wife is Korean so I've got some interesting connections to the to the peninsula as well. But it's, it's, I mean it obviously that you know Korea is aimed at Japan. So it has an important connections there it's you know it's between Japan and China, it's gets influenced by both of those particular societies as well. The North Korea is such a, I mean it's such a contrasting North and South Korea South Korea is a very strong ally for America. It's, it's, we work very closely together to defend it. North Korea is such a. I mean now that has nuclear weapons. I mean North Korea now has developed nuclear weapons. It's a threat that would not even threat and then you ever so often it fires another missile over over Japan to get our attention. It's an amazingly poor country. It's, it's, it's, I mean the contrast is, it's really stark between North and South Korea. Again, the South Korea is a very strong ally for ourselves and for all our actions in the, in the Pacific, as we try to counter China's rise and you know Korea also has close, close contact with China as well. So it's, it's an interesting, it's an interesting position in Asia between us in China obviously a strong ally remains that way the current president of Korea is a very strong American ally. Our links are very tight we still have still have troops there. It's an important position for us and then again as China continues to increase its importance in the world, our connections with Korea are going to be continually increased in importance as well. So very, very important ally for us. Right. Caleb I have a question for you. You talked a little bit about some of the veterans and the reaction to to the TV show and whatnot. We do frequently hear Korea referred to as the forgotten war, and it was wondering in your perusal of the collection, the surveys and your conversation with veterans. And what you picked up about their feelings on that matter. Do they feel forgotten. Um, I would say it's a mixed bag. There are still certainly Korean war unit level veterans organizations. That also include family members. Now, a jewelry organizations. Yes, I, yes, I would say it's a mixed bag. There are some some veterans that I've talked to that really do feel forgotten. In fact, in talking during the research. I did find a number of veterans that were that were still living still with us, but also talked with a number of family members for the soldiers that we that we highlighted in specifically in the exhibit and with them in particular. It was, it was much, they were much more appreciative getting getting their, their stories out, getting, making the awareness. And most families that I that I dealt with in particular were very appreciative and most helpful and providing whatever it was that we were looking for. Okay, thank you. That's a good reminder of the use of hex mission to honor soldiers and their contributions. Dr crane, we have a question from an individual apparently a Vietnam veteran. He comments on the fact that on Korea on paper Korea was called a police action Vietnam was referred to as a conflict. I wonder if you had any, any commentary on on the labeling and why those terms were chosen. And by extension, sort of, what can you tell us about how the experience in Korea shaped our, our experience in Vietnam you already mentioned that rich way was was out. But what influences were there on the Vietnam the conduct Vietnam conflict based on our experiences in Korea. That's, that's a good question. I mean, again, Korea. We didn't call it a war. We went in there and we had all kinds of different terms we used for it. But it was a full scale war is, is anybody who is there knows but if it starts this process where we, we don't want to declare war we don't want to go through the process we do the same thing in Vietnam. It's, it's, you know, there's, you know, we do the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we kind of, we don't declare war we don't make it a formally declared war and it's a, for many it's a disturbing trend. And it leads to a disconnect between the military and civilian engagement sometimes and it's something that, but again that's the way the world is kind of evolved since pose a second question again. What was the, what kind influence did the our experience in Korea have on the conduct of the Korean War we talked about rich way. being pushed out before Vietnam really took off but in what ways did the Korean experience shape, both perception and the conduct of the Vietnam War. Okay, I understand the thing is that Korea was a different kind of war than Vietnam but we will actually establish the Army of Vietnam very similar to the Korean army. The British way himself is very much against getting involved in Vietnam he, but again he's he's out of, you know, it's interesting what happens at the end of Korea is you have Maxwell Taylor replaces them. Taylor is also against some of Eisenhower's changes in the military structure but he lets his subordinates take the hit instead of himself and maintains fairly close connections so when the 1960s come around. He's a respected ambassador and has influence over the evolving policies in Vietnam where rich way does not. And so we're where's Taylor is very much more active and saying we can, we can foil this rich way wants us to stay unengaged. But a rich way has to rich way writes a book on the history of the Korean war whereas argument is really stay out of Vietnam, I mean, the point he talks about. He tries to make the argument is book on the Korean war that this is a, this is what could happen if we get engaged in Vietnam we might be concerned about this but he just doesn't have the influence. And again after Vietnam after Korea. The United States kind of stays on a much more much stronger defensive footing they don't reduce the armed forces as much as they did after World War two. But our vision of Vietnam is like it's another Korea and it's not this is a, the, the, the, the army of Vietnam that is set up based on the Korean army is not the right tool for that particular war, most people would say it's it's much too conventional it's and has to evolve over time and try to deal with this very different threat that the vietnam will present and even our been later on so it's, it is not a. In many ways it's not the right model for Vietnam but it becomes applied that way, but it has influence. Again, it's, it's significant influence from 1953 up through the 60s into the early 70s and our actions in Vietnam. We also have a question about you mentioned the coerced confessions or the, the, the stuff that people are trying to mislead their, their interrogators. What can you tell us about the abuse of prisoners in the communist hands, and how did that eventually shape our response I know there was some changes to the code of conduct. I think those came after Vietnam but maybe you could talk a little bit about that. No, it's I'm pretty sure it's that the changes are after Korea we just you develop the this kind of rules for our POW should respond and different engagement because Korea is very tough situation for the POW is there because they don't have the same. We're not quite used to it. Again, a lot of the airmen that are being interrogated about these biological warfare allegations are concerned about what they know about nukes. They don't want to. They want to hide what they know about nukes so they throw out all these things about biological warfare which all of a sudden become national and international points of information and they're all over the place and again slot some of them they came back on after 1953 or a maze of how much how their initial challenge dollars how their claims had been taken and how far they've been they had gone. So so there's there's a move to to restructure how we will, we will react to those kind of situations. I don't know that that's a good question I'm not sure the exact year that the code of conduct comes into action. It's it's it's different to the guys in Korea don't have the same guidelines that we're going to have later on. And that they're dealing with a new situation and there's a lot of lessons trying to try to be taken from that about future prisoners of war and the pressures they get but you had. And a lot of them die. A lot of them don't survive captivity that their treatment is not going through winners in North Korea where the North Koreans are North Koreans are suffering from a lack of food you don't get that doesn't mean you get more food as a pre O W. I mean there's there's some hard conditions in those prisoner war camps as well. There are some. Some of those 23 soldiers who refused to get repatriated because they, they got compromised by these these tribulations in these prison camps and felt they had done things that would be seen as traitorous actions that they came home. So it's a tough being a prisoner war in Korea is a very, very, very difficult situation. And that leads us into another question in preparing an exhibit for the public that is going to be viewed by veterans of the conflict and including folks that are being depicted in the exhibit. Where do you find the balance between depicting the reality of war and being sensitive to. And not not going overboard with the with the gore and horror. That's, that's a tough one. I would say it comes down to common sense really when you're, when you're doing the research. Oftentimes you see all of it. Especially in some of the reactions, the written reactions, the foot photographic reactions, photographic evidence. And certainly there's there's plenty more that isn't that that isn't said or viewed. But it's important, I think, in an exhibit such as this in any context to be truthful. And, but not not be as overly visual in the sense of we don't we don't need to go overboard and really with with the, you know, specifics of that I think most people that come into an institution like such as ours. And what the army does understand hopefully what what real conflict, at least what what it what it is not perhaps maybe not in every sense, what every conflict we talk about is but war is is difficult, obviously. So, it's one of those things that it's a little bit of a balance. All right, thank you. Dr crane. There seems to have been a turnaround when rich way took over. What did rich way bring to the table that was maybe lacking. And, and, and I noticed he seems to have relieved a lot of people so maybe you could comment a little on that. I think, personally, I think Matt Ridgeway is the greatest. If you if you look at his performance at the tactical operational strategic levels of war as a, you know, command an 82nd airborne in World War two and then 18th airborne corps and his action in Korea, and then it's all way up as the army chief of staff I don't think there has ever been any army leader as capable all three levels of war is Matt Ridgeway. He was a gifted leader at many levels when he takes over in December 1950 he immediately realizes the situation his forces in. He's got a, you know, that there have been a number of studies about the evolution of the American army in Korea and most of them say that the American army in the early part of the war is not very good. It's the result of the product of this, this post war drawdown. Even after they defeat the North Korean in September 1950 the North Koreans and basically shattered themselves by going too far and stretch too far and overrun. So it's really not that good. It's really not. It really doesn't start to turn into the very solid army that we see it later in the war until after Ridgeway gets there and starts to change things in early 1951. You get a whole set of new leaders in there you get troops are there for a while and starting to get used to the Korean environment that the whole force gets better in early 1951 it's not just Ridgeway's leadership it's also the experience of it's the new junior leaders he's brought in underneath them. It's his own experience so it's a total transformation and attitude you can see it in the writings you can see it in their actions. His credit is one of the great, the great military renovations of all time than what Ridgeway does with with the 8th Army in early 1951 I mean it's a. Again, but he I think Ridgeway is gifted at all levels of war look where he does in World War two you look what he does, even his army chief of staff what he does from 53 to 55 with with the way he keeps us out of Vietnam and the way he shapes that he helps keep us out of Vietnam. He's very gifted at all those levels and it's it is. Again, he was that he was he was. He was hard to deal with sometimes and that's why he ends up being sent in 1955 forced to retire. He and Eisenhower didn't always get along. But I think in hindsight, you know, it's hard to criticize his actions and. He is worth emulating and and I know that I'll tell you his papers at the. I'll throw this in about his papers at the Army here at Education Center. Ridgeway had a Tennessee. At the end of each day to rate notes about what was important about the day and and and and that's in his file there and it's rich to go through him as he goes through his army career. He has a lot of expectations he makes about what about each day in his life and what's important about it and and you can see that in when he's during the battle the bulge he is in charge of a large part of the American offense to battle the bulge. What he does there you can see it in his relations in Korea. You can see in his relations in in 1954 when all of a sudden he's trying to keep us out of Vietnam. And an immensely valuable resource to look at about the real hard choices senior leaders have to make involving any kind of military force. Okay, fantastic. We have come to the end of our time I want to thank both of you gentlemen for sharing your thoughts and insights with us is tremendous. I hope for our audience listening at home that you will come and visit us. The US Army Heritage and Education Center in Carlisle, Pennsylvania. I do want to point out that while you do need an appointment to conduct research the museum and grounds are are open to the public at no cost you don't need an appointment for that. So hopefully we'll see you there and hopefully we'll see you at our second program this afternoon at 1pm. So when we're going to be looking at the experience of African Americans and women during the Korean War. Thank you all for joining us and thank you again to our presenters for sharing their insights and knowledge with us.